The making of a modern Bohemian

[Bruce C. Miller]

Part time lurker, almost never a poster here... I wondered where to ask
this, and I figure ROA and RAT is a good a place as any.

Over the course of my life, I've been slowly eliminating unnecessary,
plebian possessions, consumables, behaviors, and other aspects of my
life that are otherwise unsophisticated, mundane, low-brow, and
commonplace. As I've done so, I've grown more and more disdain for the
proles and their monster truck rallies, pro wrestling, and walmart
furniture.

I feel there are certainly things I'm leaving out on my journey from
middle class commoner to urbane, misanthropic sophisticate, though I am
definitely on the right track. Help me complete the transformation by
pointing out anything I've missed. So far, I have addressed the
following categories:

- Music: Went from mass-marketed pop to various avant-garde and obscure
genres (almost exclusively on vinyl of course)

- TV: Went from an average 20-30 hr/wk viewer to no TV at all (I still
watch movies on the computer, however).

- Movies: Went from Hollywood mechanical narratives to art house
experimental and foreign films.

- Stereo: Went from mass-fi shelf system to extremely expensive
audiophile system.

- Clothing: Went from typical 90s fad wear to a more mature, classic
look, usually from European designers.

- Books: Went from reading mystery and scifi to more obscure classic
literature and obscure contemporary prose and poetry.

- Food: Went from eating junk food to various ethnic cuisines, often
Mediterranean (I plan to get better cooking skills soon).

- Beverages: Switched from coffee to tea and from dark beers to premium
reds.

- Furniture: Threw out anything made out of fiber or particle board or
veneered. Slowly replacing with handmade real wood and metal furniture.

- Health: Quit binge drinking and smoking. Started a 3-day/wk exercise
plan.

That's about all I can think of right now. There are little things too,
like replacing my touchtone phone with a vintage all-metal rotary.

I'm not an anachrophile or a luddite. I only eliminate those things
which cause more stress than they relieve. There many modern things I
don't intend to change (like my computers) and many commonplace items
which still have a place (like paper towels).

[Lord Valve]

..edu, huh? Lemme guess - you're so cool by now, your
**** comes out wrapped in cellophane.

LV




Bruce C. Miller wrote:
(A major snob rant is mercifully excised)

[Robert Morein]

"Bruce C. Miller" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> Part time lurker, almost never a poster here... I wondered where to ask
> this, and I figure ROA and RAT is a good a place as any.
>
[snip]
> - Health: Quit binge drinking and smoking. Started a 3-day/wk exercise
> plan.
>
> That's about all I can think of right now. There are little things too,
> like replacing my touchtone phone with a vintage all-metal rotary.
>
> I'm not an anachrophile or a luddite. I only eliminate those things
> which cause more stress than they relieve. There many modern things I
> don't intend to change (like my computers) and many commonplace items
> which still have a place (like paper towels).
>
Bruce,
I read a tidbit on the reading habits of the literati. Surprisingly, the
most luminous minds of our generation read lots and lots of junk. The
difference between these people, and more average individuals, is that they
read and experience many more things. In their lives, the valve that closes
off experience and culture is wide open.

For some people, cloistering themselves from the vulgar, and the
low-brow pursuits of ordinary people makes them happy. So be it. But I
wouldn't take it as an article of faith that this will work for you. Don't
make it a goal in and of itself. You, too, could have a brilliant mind, yet
enjoy Jello, Twinkies, and Metallica, and if that's the case, feel no guilt.
Enjoy every sunny day.

People in search of Bohemia sometimes find themselves conforming to
another standard that is as confining as the one they abandoned.

[[email protected]]

"Bruce C. Miller" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> Part time lurker, almost never a poster here... I wondered where to ask
> this, and I figure ROA and RAT is a good a place as any.
>
> Over the course of my life, I've been slowly eliminating unnecessary,
> plebian possessions, consumables, behaviors, and other aspects of my
> life that are otherwise unsophisticated, mundane, low-brow, and
> commonplace. As I've done so, I've grown more and more disdain for the
> proles and their monster truck rallies, pro wrestling, and walmart
> furniture.
>
> I feel there are certainly things I'm leaving out on my journey from
> middle class commoner to urbane, misanthropic sophisticate, though I am
> definitely on the right track. Help me complete the transformation by
> pointing out anything I've missed. So far, I have addressed the
> following categories:
>
> - Music: Went from mass-marketed pop to various avant-garde and obscure
> genres (almost exclusively on vinyl of course)
>
> - TV: Went from an average 20-30 hr/wk viewer to no TV at all (I still
> watch movies on the computer, however).
>
> - Movies: Went from Hollywood mechanical narratives to art house
> experimental and foreign films.
>
> - Stereo: Went from mass-fi shelf system to extremely expensive
> audiophile system.
>
> - Clothing: Went from typical 90s fad wear to a more mature, classic
> look, usually from European designers.
>
> - Books: Went from reading mystery and scifi to more obscure classic
> literature and obscure contemporary prose and poetry.
>
> - Food: Went from eating junk food to various ethnic cuisines, often
> Mediterranean (I plan to get better cooking skills soon).
>
> - Beverages: Switched from coffee to tea and from dark beers to premium
> reds.
>
> - Furniture: Threw out anything made out of fiber or particle board or
> veneered. Slowly replacing with handmade real wood and metal furniture.
>
> - Health: Quit binge drinking and smoking. Started a 3-day/wk exercise
> plan.
>
> That's about all I can think of right now. There are little things too,
> like replacing my touchtone phone with a vintage all-metal rotary.
>
> I'm not an anachrophile or a luddite. I only eliminate those things
> which cause more stress than they relieve. There many modern things I
> don't intend to change (like my computers) and many commonplace items
> which still have a place (like paper towels).
>
For me vinyl playback would fall into that category of things that cause
more stress than it relieves. All the work that goes into setting up the
rig, the expense, the time involved in cleaning each disk before playback,
and the monstrous levels of noise and distortion inherent in the media.

If it works for you, go for it.

[ScottW]

"Bruce C. Miller" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> Part time lurker, almost never a poster here... I wondered where to ask
> this, and I figure ROA and RAT is a good a place as any.
>
> Over the course of my life, I've been slowly eliminating unnecessary,
> plebian possessions, consumables, behaviors, and other aspects of my
> life that are otherwise unsophisticated, mundane, low-brow, and
> commonplace. As I've done so, I've grown more and more disdain for the
> proles and their monster truck rallies, pro wrestling, and walmart
> furniture.
>
> I feel there are certainly things I'm leaving out on my journey from
> middle class commoner to urbane, misanthropic sophisticate, though I am
> definitely on the right track. Help me complete the transformation by
> pointing out anything I've missed. So far, I have addressed the
> following categories:
>
> - Music: Went from mass-marketed pop to various avant-garde and obscure
> genres (almost exclusively on vinyl of course)
>
> - TV: Went from an average 20-30 hr/wk viewer to no TV at all (I still
> watch movies on the computer, however).
>
> - Movies: Went from Hollywood mechanical narratives to art house
> experimental and foreign films.
>
> - Stereo: Went from mass-fi shelf system to extremely expensive
> audiophile system.
>
> - Clothing: Went from typical 90s fad wear to a more mature, classic
> look, usually from European designers.

What ever happenned to comfort?

>
> - Books: Went from reading mystery and scifi to more obscure classic
> literature and obscure contemporary prose and poetry.
>
> - Food: Went from eating junk food to various ethnic cuisines, often
> Mediterranean (I plan to get better cooking skills soon).
>
> - Beverages: Switched from coffee to tea and from dark beers to premium
> reds.

Yuch... You'd forgo a healthy Stoudt for a red. That is stressin.

>
> - Furniture: Threw out anything made out of fiber or particle board or
> veneered. Slowly replacing with handmade real wood and metal furniture.

I'd be stressing why the furniture was something to stress over.

>
> - Health: Quit binge drinking and smoking. Started a 3-day/wk exercise
> plan.
>
> That's about all I can think of right now. There are little things too,
> like replacing my touchtone phone with a vintage all-metal rotary.
>
> I'm not an anachrophile or a luddite. I only eliminate those things
> which cause more stress than they relieve. There many modern things I
> don't intend to change (like my computers)

Now theres a stress item that you shouldn't overlook.

> and many commonplace items
> which still have a place (like paper towels).

How about the toilet paper. Charmin has very nice new stress relieving
variety.
Scented or not, as you like.

ScottW

[Bruce C. Miller]

Robert Morein wrote:
> "Bruce C. Miller" > wrote in message
> oups.com...
> > Part time lurker, almost never a poster here... I wondered where to ask
> > this, and I figure ROA and RAT is a good a place as any.
> >
> [snip]
> > - Health: Quit binge drinking and smoking. Started a 3-day/wk exercise
> > plan.
> >
> > That's about all I can think of right now. There are little things too,
> > like replacing my touchtone phone with a vintage all-metal rotary.
> >
> > I'm not an anachrophile or a luddite. I only eliminate those things
> > which cause more stress than they relieve. There many modern things I
> > don't intend to change (like my computers) and many commonplace items
> > which still have a place (like paper towels).
> >
> Bruce,
> I read a tidbit on the reading habits of the literati. Surprisingly, the
> most luminous minds of our generation read lots and lots of junk. The
> difference between these people, and more average individuals, is that they
> read and experience many more things. In their lives, the valve that closes
> off experience and culture is wide open.
>
> For some people, cloistering themselves from the vulgar, and the
> low-brow pursuits of ordinary people makes them happy. So be it. But I
> wouldn't take it as an article of faith that this will work for you. Don't
> make it a goal in and of itself. You, too, could have a brilliant mind, yet
> enjoy Jello, Twinkies, and Metallica, and if that's the case, feel no guilt.
> Enjoy every sunny day.
>
> People in search of Bohemia sometimes find themselves conforming to
> another standard that is as confining as the one they abandoned.

This is certainly true to an extent. For me, I've already spent over a
quarter century soaking in tv, pop music, junk food, and everything
else without regard. I've probably wasted a good year or two of my life
just in front of the TV. I think that's more than enough for one
lifetime. I've been at it long enough to make an informed decision, I
believe. So far, eliminating such things has only improved my quality
of life overall.

I'm not becoming a recluse, I'm just putting a little more thought into
the things I consume and do. Just like most people wouldn't even think
to improve the sound quality of their stereo, even if they listen to it
every day and have plenty of money to do so, so too are most things.
Once you realize it is possible, the rewards are yours. I'm trying to
identify as many of those things as I can.

The downside to this, of course, is that the more you do this, the less
you have in common with the average man. Some people will think you're
a snob even if they find out you don't own a TV. I don't think game
shows and rap should be outlawed, I just don't want to voluntarily
subject myself to any more of it than I have to.

[Bruce C. Miller]

ScottW wrote:
> "Bruce C. Miller" > wrote in message
> oups.com...
> >
> > - Clothing: Went from typical 90s fad wear to a more mature, classic
> > look, usually from European designers.
>
> What ever happenned to comfort?

A lot of the various fads that have come in and out of style were of
questionable comfort as well. At home, I wear whatever is the most
comfortable.

> > - Beverages: Switched from coffee to tea and from dark beers to premium
> > reds.
>
> Yuch... You'd forgo a healthy Stoudt for a red. That is stressin.

I do think I had decent taste in beers, even in my youth. I never could
stomach the urinal water most Americans drink. These days, I mainly
only drink a glass or two with a dinner, and for that I tend to prefer
a nice red, though I don't hold anything against the cultural
refinement of a consumer of certain dark beers.

> > - Furniture: Threw out anything made out of fiber or particle board or
> > veneered. Slowly replacing with handmade real wood and metal furniture.
>
> I'd be stressing why the furniture was something to stress over.

It's not a high priority, which is why it isn't anywhere near done yet.
Personally, there's something intangibly better about sitting in a
nice, well crafted wooden chair than sitting in a $15 plastic lawn
chair from K-Mart.

> > I'm not an anachrophile or a luddite. I only eliminate those things
> > which cause more stress than they relieve. There many modern things I
> > don't intend to change (like my computers)
>
> Now theres a stress item that you shouldn't overlook.

The computer, or rather my profession involving them, pays for all of
this. So, getting rid of the computer would require me getting rid of
everything else :(

> > and many commonplace items
> > which still have a place (like paper towels).
>
> How about the toilet paper. Charmin has very nice new stress relieving
> variety.
> Scented or not, as you like.

I'd prefer a clean ass to a dirty but perfumed one, but either way
works for me.

[ScottW]

"Bruce C. Miller" > wrote in message
oups.com...
>
> The downside to this, of course, is that the more you do this, the less
> you have in common with the average man. Some people will think you're
> a snob even if they find out you don't own a TV.

I'd just think you lack self control.

> I don't think game
> shows and rap should be outlawed, I just don't want to voluntarily
> subject myself to any more of it than I have to.
>
So why did you have to ban all TVs from your home to avoid game shows and
rap? I think TV is actually coming into a new golden age with the digital
channel offerings. I was just watching an awesome tribute to Muddy Waters
last night on IN HD. Lots of good stuff on TV and I can't remember the
last time I watched a game show.... take it back.... there was this hotty on
Fear Factor in a tight T-shirt they dunked in a tank...does that count?

ScottW

[Clyde Slick]

"Bruce C. Miller" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> Part time lurker, almost never a poster here... I wondered where to ask
> this, and I figure ROA and RAT is a good a place as any.
>
> Over the course of my life, I've been slowly eliminating unnecessary,
> plebian possessions, consumables, behaviors, and other aspects of my
> life that are otherwise unsophisticated, mundane, low-brow, and
> commonplace. As I've done so, I've grown more and more disdain for the
> proles and their monster truck rallies, pro wrestling, and walmart
> furniture.
>
> I feel there are certainly things I'm leaving out on my journey from
> middle class commoner to urbane, misanthropic sophisticate, though I am
> definitely on the right track. Help me complete the transformation by
> pointing out anything I've missed. So far, I have addressed the
> following categories:
>
> - Music: Went from mass-marketed pop to various avant-garde and obscure
> genres (almost exclusively on vinyl of course)
>
> - TV: Went from an average 20-30 hr/wk viewer to no TV at all (I still
> watch movies on the computer, however).
>
> - Movies: Went from Hollywood mechanical narratives to art house
> experimental and foreign films.
>
> - Stereo: Went from mass-fi shelf system to extremely expensive
> audiophile system.
>
> - Clothing: Went from typical 90s fad wear to a more mature, classic
> look, usually from European designers.
>
> - Books: Went from reading mystery and scifi to more obscure classic
> literature and obscure contemporary prose and poetry.
>
> - Food: Went from eating junk food to various ethnic cuisines, often
> Mediterranean (I plan to get better cooking skills soon).
>
> - Beverages: Switched from coffee to tea and from dark beers to premium
> reds.
>
> - Furniture: Threw out anything made out of fiber or particle board or
> veneered. Slowly replacing with handmade real wood and metal furniture.
>
> - Health: Quit binge drinking and smoking. Started a 3-day/wk exercise
> plan.
>
> That's about all I can think of right now. There are little things too,
> like replacing my touchtone phone with a vintage all-metal rotary.
>

I hate to ask you about the changes in your
sexual activities, but, what the hell. Want to share them with us?

[Bret Ludwig]

wrote:
> "Bruce C. Miller" > wrote in message
> oups.com...
> > Part time lurker, almost never a poster here... I wondered where to ask
> > this, and I figure ROA and RAT is a good a place as any.


> For me vinyl playback would fall into that category of things that cause
> more stress than it relieves. All the work that goes into setting up the
> rig, the expense, the time involved in cleaning each disk before playback,
> and the monstrous levels of noise and distortion inherent in the media.
>
> If it works for you, go for it.

If you want to listen to material available on vinyl only or whose
transfer to digital is not that great, vinyl is the only game in town.


I get a lot of pleasure from listening to albums I get in estate
auctions, many of which are unplayed, and most of which are material
that I am reasonably sure no one on earth besides me is listening to at
that moment.

[Bruce C. Miller]

Clyde Slick wrote:
> <snip>
>
> I hate to ask you about the changes in your
> sexual activities, but, what the hell. Want to share them with us?

I won't get into the gory details, but this has been another mixed bag.
Compared to when I was, say, 20 or so (I'm 27 now) it is now easier for
me to talk to girls and show them a good time on a date, even if most
of it is just conversation. However, I seem to be less impressed with
the things that come out of their mouths.

This could very well be because I've become jaded though, so I can't
say that my lifestyle change has had a direct cause-effect relationship
with this. It could be any number of things. I can only say it's gotten
worse since I've gotten out of college, as most of the females I've met
since then have only a high school education, and seem to be stuck at
that level of intellectual maturity.

I wish I lived in a more urban setting. I wager there would be more
artsy or eccentric types around. In real life, I tend not to even
mention my interests when asked. People often ask what type of music I
like, to which I respond, "Oh, various types..." Spares me the
confused, blank stares.

[ScottW]

"Bruce C. Miller" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> ScottW wrote:
>> "Bruce C. Miller" > wrote in message
>> oups.com...
>> >
>> > - Clothing: Went from typical 90s fad wear to a more mature, classic
>> > look, usually from European designers.
>>
>> What ever happenned to comfort?
>
> A lot of the various fads that have come in and out of style were of
> questionable comfort as well. At home, I wear whatever is the most
> comfortable.
>
>> > - Beverages: Switched from coffee to tea and from dark beers to premium
>> > reds.
>>
>> Yuch... You'd forgo a healthy Stoudt for a red. That is stressin.
>
> I do think I had decent taste in beers, even in my youth. I never could
> stomach the urinal water most Americans drink. These days, I mainly
> only drink a glass or two with a dinner, and for that I tend to prefer
> a nice red, though I don't hold anything against the cultural
> refinement of a consumer of certain dark beers.

Newcastle Brown Ale for the lighter evening.... Pilsner Urquell when I have
a taste for hops.... and Sam Adams Stoudt (unless I can get over to BevMo
and get a real Guinness...those stupid CO2 cartridge drafts weren't at all
brilliant.

>
>> > - Furniture: Threw out anything made out of fiber or particle board or
>> > veneered. Slowly replacing with handmade real wood and metal furniture.
>>
>> I'd be stressing why the furniture was something to stress over.
>
> It's not a high priority, which is why it isn't anywhere near done yet.
> Personally, there's something intangibly better about sitting in a
> nice, well crafted wooden chair than sitting in a $15 plastic lawn
> chair from K-Mart.

Till you need to paint or varnish it again.... and again...... I've decided
low stress requires low maintenance.

ScottW

[Clyde Slick]

"Bruce C. Miller" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> Clyde Slick wrote:
>> <snip>
>>
>> I hate to ask you about the changes in your
>> sexual activities, but, what the hell. Want to share them with us?
>
> I won't get into the gory details, but this has been another mixed bag.
> Compared to when I was, say, 20 or so (I'm 27 now) it is now easier for
> me to talk to girls and show them a good time on a date, even if most
> of it is just conversation. However, I seem to be less impressed with
> the things that come out of their mouths.
>


> This could very well be because I've become jaded though, so I can't
> say that my lifestyle change has had a direct cause-effect relationship
> with this. It could be any number of things. I can only say it's gotten
> worse since I've gotten out of college, as most of the females I've met
> since then have only a high school education, and seem to be stuck at
> that level of intellectual maturity.
>
> I wish I lived in a more urban setting. I wager there would be more
> artsy or eccentric types around. In real life, I tend not to even
> mention my interests when asked. People often ask what type of music I
> like, to which I respond, "Oh, various types..." Spares me the
> confused, blank stares.
>


Sorry I asked.
I was expecting something a little funnier.
However, I submit that you would be more impressed
with what comes out of your date's mouth if it were
your come coming out of your date's mouth.

[[email protected]]

"Bret Ludwig" > wrote in message
oups.com...
>
> wrote:
>> "Bruce C. Miller" > wrote in message
>> oups.com...
>> > Part time lurker, almost never a poster here... I wondered where to ask
>> > this, and I figure ROA and RAT is a good a place as any.
>
>
>> For me vinyl playback would fall into that category of things that cause
>> more stress than it relieves. All the work that goes into setting up the
>> rig, the expense, the time involved in cleaning each disk before
>> playback,
>> and the monstrous levels of noise and distortion inherent in the media.
>>
>> If it works for you, go for it.
>
> If you want to listen to material available on vinyl only or whose
> transfer to digital is not that great, vinyl is the only game in town.
>

Agreed, but as an only source, I don't see it.
>
> I get a lot of pleasure from listening to albums I get in estate
> auctions, many of which are unplayed, and most of which are material
> that I am reasonably sure no one on earth besides me is listening to at
> that moment.
>
The only reason I have a turntable at all is to play albums I don't have
CD's for.

[Atsunori Tamagawa]

Bruce C. Miller wrote
>
> I feel there are certainly things I'm leaving out on my journey from
> middle class commoner to urbane, misanthropic sophisticate, though
> I am definitely on the right track. Help me complete the
> transformation by pointing out anything I've missed. So far, I have
> addressed the following categories:

Hello Bruce,

Long time ago I read a book written by an American author,
"Walden" by Henry David Thoreau. Even reading in Japanese translation,
I was deeply impressed because I thought I saw one of ultimate forms
of DIY and simple life.
Though, when I joined an American company later, some of co-workers
mentioned that the book was virtually about how to avoid taxes. (^^;)

Anyway, I think that things you have done so far are based on
consumption of things. Chosing A over B is like that.
DIY or "creation" of something might open the door toward
satisfaction you didn't expect since this is rec.autio.tubes.
It can be a very small project.

Atsunori

[Andre Jute]

You're not a Bohemian, Bruce, you're a snob.

A Bohemian is created by his culture and taste and achivements. You
don't choose to be a Bohemian; bohemianism chooses you. Bohemianism is
not a tool for posing as fashionably cool.

I think you've been lucky so far not to meet a girl of genuine
intellect and taste. When you do, her contempt for your pretentious
shallowness will sear your soul.

Andre Jute
Artist. Intellectual. Bicyclist. Sophisticate. Dressed daily in
joggers.

Visit Andre Jute at http://members.lycos.co.uk/fiultra/
Those who don't care about their image can stick to Jute on Amps
http://members.lycos.co.uk/fiultra/JUTE%20ON%20AMPS.htm
"an unbelievably comprehensive web site" -- Hi-Fi News & Record Review

Bruce C. Miller wrote:
> Part time lurker, almost never a poster here... I wondered where to ask
> this, and I figure ROA and RAT is a good a place as any.
>
> Over the course of my life, I've been slowly eliminating unnecessary,
> plebian possessions, consumables, behaviors, and other aspects of my
> life that are otherwise unsophisticated, mundane, low-brow, and
> commonplace. As I've done so, I've grown more and more disdain for the
> proles and their monster truck rallies, pro wrestling, and walmart
> furniture.
>
> I feel there are certainly things I'm leaving out on my journey from
> middle class commoner to urbane, misanthropic sophisticate, though I am
> definitely on the right track. Help me complete the transformation by
> pointing out anything I've missed. So far, I have addressed the
> following categories:
>
> - Music: Went from mass-marketed pop to various avant-garde and obscure
> genres (almost exclusively on vinyl of course)
>
> - TV: Went from an average 20-30 hr/wk viewer to no TV at all (I still
> watch movies on the computer, however).
>
> - Movies: Went from Hollywood mechanical narratives to art house
> experimental and foreign films.
>
> - Stereo: Went from mass-fi shelf system to extremely expensive
> audiophile system.
>
> - Clothing: Went from typical 90s fad wear to a more mature, classic
> look, usually from European designers.
>
> - Books: Went from reading mystery and scifi to more obscure classic
> literature and obscure contemporary prose and poetry.
>
> - Food: Went from eating junk food to various ethnic cuisines, often
> Mediterranean (I plan to get better cooking skills soon).
>
> - Beverages: Switched from coffee to tea and from dark beers to premium
> reds.
>
> - Furniture: Threw out anything made out of fiber or particle board or
> veneered. Slowly replacing with handmade real wood and metal furniture.
>
> - Health: Quit binge drinking and smoking. Started a 3-day/wk exercise
> plan.
>
> That's about all I can think of right now. There are little things too,
> like replacing my touchtone phone with a vintage all-metal rotary.
>
> I'm not an anachrophile or a luddite. I only eliminate those things
> which cause more stress than they relieve. There many modern things I
> don't intend to change (like my computers) and many commonplace items
> which still have a place (like paper towels).

[Mark Harriss]

I think you are headed in the right direction, just
look at how upset some people are here!!!!.

regards
Mark

[paul packer]

On Mon, 3 Oct 2005 19:43:21 -0400, "Robert Morein"
> wrote:
> For some people, cloistering themselves from the vulgar, and the
>low-brow pursuits of ordinary people makes them happy.

Yep. Makes me deleriously happy.

> So be it.

It is.

> But I
>wouldn't take it as an article of faith that this will work for you. Don't
>make it a goal in and of itself.

It just comes naturally, doesn't it? If it doesn't, don't do it.

> You, too, could have a brilliant mind, yet
>enjoy Jello, Twinkies, and Metallica, and if that's the case, feel no guilt.

He mightn't feel any guilt, but he probably wouldn't have such a
brilliant mind after a while either. When was the last time you met a
brilliant Metallica fan? Not lately? Well, there's a reason... :-)

Actually I thought Bruce's post was a put-on. Now I'm not sure what to
think.

[Bruce C. Miller]

Atsunori Tamagawa wrote:
> Bruce C. Miller wrote
> >
> > I feel there are certainly things I'm leaving out on my journey from
> > middle class commoner to urbane, misanthropic sophisticate, though
> > I am definitely on the right track. Help me complete the
> > transformation by pointing out anything I've missed. So far, I have
> > addressed the following categories:
>
> Hello Bruce,
>
> Long time ago I read a book written by an American author,
> "Walden" by Henry David Thoreau. Even reading in Japanese translation,
> I was deeply impressed because I thought I saw one of ultimate forms
> of DIY and simple life.
> Though, when I joined an American company later, some of co-workers
> mentioned that the book was virtually about how to avoid taxes. (^^;)
>
> Anyway, I think that things you have done so far are based on
> consumption of things. Chosing A over B is like that.
> DIY or "creation" of something might open the door toward
> satisfaction you didn't expect since this is rec.autio.tubes.
> It can be a very small project.
>
> Atsunori

This is a good point. Some of these changes involve eliminating
unneccessary frivoltries, but alot are simply replacing one consumable
for another.

However, I think there is an important distinction between my
consumption and that of the average American; a difference I picked up
from hifi audio. That is, instead of buying a large amount of cheap
junk, I tend to buy a small amount of nice things that last. As most
people will go through, say, 10 home stereos in their lives, I
purchased components that should last the rest of my life. I've simply
extended the same concept to other catagories as well. Consumerism
itself is rather stressful for me and alot of these changes have served
to reduce it from being a major aspect of my life.

But, what things in my could I do myself? I can't make my own furniture
without a woodshop and a lot of tools (something I'd rather not own). I
can't make clothes that are presentable enough to go to work in. I
can't make my own wine, movies, cheese, and so on. I do what I can
myself, like cooking, making an amp, or writing code, but I don't have
anything against the specialisation of labor.

[Bruce C. Miller]

Andre Jute wrote:
> You're not a Bohemian, Bruce, you're a snob.
>
> A Bohemian is created by his culture and taste and achivements. You
> don't choose to be a Bohemian; bohemianism chooses you. Bohemianism is
> not a tool for posing as fashionably cool.

I would have thought you would have been more supportive. I'm not
trying to fit into a specific label. There are Bohemian aspects of my
current thinking, but a true Bohemian (if such a thing exists) would
probably consider my lifestyle unimpressive. I use the term for lack of
a better description.

Additionally, these changes have happened slowly over the last 10 years
or so. It's not like I woke up one day and decided I no longer liked
Hollywood movies and was going to watch art films. In the case of film,
for example, I gradually grew disenchanted with the assembly line of
cookie cutter plots and gravitated more towards more thoughtful films,
like I would assume any intelligent person would after getting a
constant dose of Hollywood for years and years. I don't hate those who
can find enjoyment out of a mindless action flick, but having
experienced it countless times, I'm tired of it. If that makes me a
snob, then I guess I am one.

> I think you've been lucky so far not to meet a girl of genuine
> intellect and taste. When you do, her contempt for your pretentious
> shallowness will sear your soul.

Hell, I'd be happy to meet one who wasn't crazy or just living for the
next shopping fix. Besides, I haven't said anything about my own
intellect. I could very well be quite intelligent. Or not. I don't
think any of this stuff has much to do with true intellect. One could
be a cultured idiot or an uncultured genius.

I don't discount the possibility that I still need character
development or have personality flaws to address. Pretentiousness may
very well be one of them. Your criticism isn't exactly constructive,
however.

> Andre Jute
> Artist. Intellectual. Bicyclist. Sophisticate. Dressed daily in
> joggers.

I at least have to dress professionally for work, so I might as well do
it well. I realise that after a certain age, there's not much point in
trying to look good, especially if you're married. I am still young by
comparison to most here and a bachelor, so it's not yet a complete
waste of time and effort. I put more effort into physical fitness than
clothes though. A fat man in a $2000 suit is still a fat man, after
all.

[Bruce C. Miller]

ScottW wrote:
> "Bruce C. Miller" > wrote in message
> oups.com...
> >
> > The downside to this, of course, is that the more you do this, the less
> > you have in common with the average man. Some people will think you're
> > a snob even if they find out you don't own a TV.
>
> I'd just think you lack self control.
>
> > I don't think game
> > shows and rap should be outlawed, I just don't want to voluntarily
> > subject myself to any more of it than I have to.
> >
> So why did you have to ban all TVs from your home to avoid game shows and
> rap?

I live by myself, so I only had one TV to begin with. I don't look at
it as if I had banned TVs from my life. I didn't watch it, so I
reclaimed some floor space. Even if you don't own one, TV is so
ubiquitous and omnipresent in American culture, that you can't
completely avoid it. Plus, every time I see one blaring insulting
commercials, I'm reminded why I got rid of mine.

> I think TV is actually coming into a new golden age with the digital
> channel offerings. I was just watching an awesome tribute to Muddy Waters
> last night on IN HD. Lots of good stuff on TV and I can't remember the
> last time I watched a game show.... take it back.... there was this hotty on
> Fear Factor in a tight T-shirt they dunked in a tank...does that count?

I'm not opposed to all visual media of the TV variety. I'll
occasionally buy or borrow a DVD boxset of a show or two. I recently
watched a few seasons of 24 on DVD. It was OK, but I don't think I
could watch it in weekly installments, with all those 4 minute
commercial interruptions.

My time is valuable. I really don't get that much out of most of the
shows I watch. It's a simple question for me. Is what I get from TV
worth trading my time, the price of the TV and any other components,
the subscription fees, having to watch commercials, the electricity to
run it, and the physical side effects of inactivity? For me, no. If you
think that sounds like a good deal, I certainly won't stop you.

[paul packer]

On 4 Oct 2005 06:15:42 -0700, "Bruce C. Miller" >
wrote:

>Andre Jute wrote:
>> You're not a Bohemian, Bruce, you're a snob.
>>
>> A Bohemian is created by his culture and taste and achivements. You
>> don't choose to be a Bohemian; bohemianism chooses you. Bohemianism is
>> not a tool for posing as fashionably cool.
>
>I would have thought you would have been more supportive.

Funny, I'd have thought that too. But hey, this is RAO!

> I'm not
>trying to fit into a specific label. There are Bohemian aspects of my
>current thinking, but a true Bohemian (if such a thing exists) would
>probably consider my lifestyle unimpressive. I use the term for lack of
>a better description.
>
>Additionally, these changes have happened slowly over the last 10 years
>or so. It's not like I woke up one day and decided I no longer liked
>Hollywood movies and was going to watch art films. In the case of film,
>for example, I gradually grew disenchanted with the assembly line of
>cookie cutter plots and gravitated more towards more thoughtful films,
>like I would assume any intelligent person would after getting a
>constant dose of Hollywood for years and years.

Or maybe it wouldn't take years and years. I pretty much have always
disliked thoughtless pap. That's not a boast, just a fact. But we're
probably not talking pure intelligence here so much as it's pretty
sister, discrimination. In some discrimination is innate, in others
learned, but the man who comes to it by his own inner means is to be
admired. I hope you're right that those of any intelligence whatsoever
will eventually tire of cinematic crap--or just crap generally--but I
fear you're not.

> I don't hate those who
>can find enjoyment out of a mindless action flick, but having
>experienced it countless times, I'm tired of it. If that makes me a
>snob, then I guess I am one.

It just makes you someone who's tired of mindless action flicks.

>> I think you've been lucky so far not to meet a girl of genuine
>> intellect and taste. When you do, her contempt for your pretentious
>> shallowness will sear your soul.
>
>Hell, I'd be happy to meet one who wasn't crazy or just living for the
>next shopping fix. Besides, I haven't said anything about my own
>intellect. I could very well be quite intelligent. Or not. I don't
>think any of this stuff has much to do with true intellect. One could
>be a cultured idiot or an uncultured genius.

Except that's more difficult than being a cultured genius or an
uncultured idiot. Generally, people conform to stereotypes more often
than not. I suggest you have an innate intelligence and discrimination
that's leading you on a search for the better things in life, because
there's something in you that needs sustenance. In other words, you've
had enough Snickers bars. Now it's time for a nourishing salad roll.

>I don't discount the possibility that I still need character
>development or have personality flaws to address. Pretentiousness may
>very well be one of them. Your criticism isn't exactly constructive,
>however.

Actually it was pretty stupid. The only thing wrong with your post was
that it was so honest I thought it was a put-on. That's because one
just doesn't expect honesty on RAO. Ignore the knockers. Go on as
you're going--straight on till morning. ;-)

[Patrick Turner]

Robert Morein wrote:

> "Bruce C. Miller" > wrote in message
> oups.com...
> > Part time lurker, almost never a poster here... I wondered where to ask
> > this, and I figure ROA and RAT is a good a place as any.
> >
> [snip]
> > - Health: Quit binge drinking and smoking. Started a 3-day/wk exercise
> > plan.
> >
> > That's about all I can think of right now. There are little things too,
> > like replacing my touchtone phone with a vintage all-metal rotary.
> >
> > I'm not an anachrophile or a luddite. I only eliminate those things
> > which cause more stress than they relieve. There many modern things I
> > don't intend to change (like my computers) and many commonplace items
> > which still have a place (like paper towels).
> >
> Bruce,
> I read a tidbit on the reading habits of the literati. Surprisingly, the
> most luminous minds of our generation read lots and lots of junk. The
> difference between these people, and more average individuals, is that they
> read and experience many more things. In their lives, the valve that closes
> off experience and culture is wide open.
>
> For some people, cloistering themselves from the vulgar, and the
> low-brow pursuits of ordinary people makes them happy. So be it. But I
> wouldn't take it as an article of faith that this will work for you. Don't
> make it a goal in and of itself. You, too, could have a brilliant mind, yet
> enjoy Jello, Twinkies, and Metallica, and if that's the case, feel no guilt.
> Enjoy every sunny day.
>
> People in search of Bohemia sometimes find themselves conforming to
> another standard that is as confining as the one they abandoned.

All the fukking bohemians I have ever known are not very good at
making other people happy.

Warning to Bohemians:-

Keep it private if you want real respect.

Patrick Turner.

[Robert Morein]

"paul packer" > wrote in message
...
> On Mon, 3 Oct 2005 19:43:21 -0400, "Robert Morein"
> > wrote:
> > For some people, cloistering themselves from the vulgar, and the
> >low-brow pursuits of ordinary people makes them happy.
>
> Yep. Makes me deleriously happy.
>
> > So be it.
>
> It is.
>
> > But I
> >wouldn't take it as an article of faith that this will work for you.
Don't
> >make it a goal in and of itself.
>
> It just comes naturally, doesn't it? If it doesn't, don't do it.
>
> > You, too, could have a brilliant mind, yet
> >enjoy Jello, Twinkies, and Metallica, and if that's the case, feel no
guilt.
>
> He mightn't feel any guilt, but he probably wouldn't have such a
> brilliant mind after a while either. When was the last time you met a
> brilliant Metallica fan? Not lately? Well, there's a reason... :-)
>
I was just thinking hypothetically :)

[Andre Jute]

Bruce C. Miller wrote:
> Andre Jute wrote:
> > You're not a Bohemian, Bruce, you're a snob.

> I would have thought you would have been more supportive.

Why ever? If you lurk on RAT you will know I admire precision of
thought and expression. But why should I stroke someone who hasn't even
troubled to discover the correct name for what he aspires to? You don't
even know what a Bohemian is. Bohemia was a part of central London
inhabited by artists and people closely involved with them. Painters,
models, art dealers, are one example of a set of related bohemians.
They produced works of art or were instrumental in producing them or in
selling them. Someone who merely goes to a gallery to look at the
painting made by Bohemian doesn't thereby become a Bohemian. Some
Bohemians had a louche lifestyle, free love and all that, and some
didn't wash too often, and some moved out to the countryside and
committed incest with their daughers (Eric Gill), but the
distinguishing mark of all was a life in the arts. (Note that all this
is in the past tense. Bohemia is now inhabited by my publishers --
those who haven't yet moved further out, all of whom would be hugely
flattered to be called louche and some of whom may still dream of being
offered free love but all of whom would certainly not touch the person
who offered it with a ten-foot pole.) Bohemianism doesn't describe what
you are trying to do with your life.

If you had said merely that you want to be a cultured person, or
stylish, or a trendy, or a hanger-on of the arts or intellectual life,
I would have helped you out with a list of the right possessions, words
and attitudes. Now that the communications revolution will put all
information instantly at your fingertips, and all entertainment,
literature, etc, we need enlightened, actively discriminating consumers
of culture, which you are as specifically as you are not a Bohemian. (I
suspect anyway from your writing and obsession with lists that you
would be most uncomfortable with the general standard of hygiene among
the arty-farties.)

> > A Bohemian is created by his culture and taste and achivements. You
> > don't choose to be a Bohemian; bohemianism chooses you. Bohemianism is
> > not a tool for posing as fashionably cool.

>I'm not
> trying to fit into a specific label. There are Bohemian aspects of my
> current thinking, but a true Bohemian (if such a thing exists) would
> probably consider my lifestyle unimpressive. I use the term for lack of
> a better description.

Uh-huh. You couldn't have looked very hard. A cultured person suits
fine.

> Additionally, these changes have happened slowly over the last 10 years
> or so. It's not like I woke up one day and decided I no longer liked
> Hollywood movies and was going to watch art films. In the case of film,
> for example, I gradually grew disenchanted with the assembly line of
> cookie cutter plots and gravitated more towards more thoughtful films,
> like I would assume any intelligent person would after getting a
> constant dose of Hollywood for years and years. I don't hate those who
> can find enjoyment out of a mindless action flick, but having
> experienced it countless times, I'm tired of it. If that makes me a
> snob, then I guess I am one.

What makes you a snob is publicly expressed contempt for sound
middle-class values, and dumb cracks about the proletariat. What makes
you a snob is choosing some form of consumption because it is a
minority interest. What makes you a snob is looking down on majority
tastes. All of these solecisms you have publicly admitted to.

> > I think you've been lucky so far not to meet a girl of genuine
> > intellect and taste. When you do, her contempt for your pretentious
> > shallowness will sear your soul.
>
> Hell, I'd be happy to meet one who wasn't crazy or just living for the
> next shopping fix. Besides, I haven't said anything about my own
> intellect.

You told us you don't have your brain in gear even to the minor extent
of using a dictionary about the name of your life-changing aspiration.
You told us you have gullibly exchanged one set of designer labels for
a more expensive, less comfortable set in what you consume, think and
dream. When I was in advertising, we used to dream of cloning trendies
like you; an associate of mine had a list on his wall of 900 plus
trendy things we had made trendy that we would not be seen dead
wearing, doing, consuming or thinking. As a 13-year old intern (I had
just published a book of poems, so this ad agency offered me a vacation
job complete with first class air tickets--there is the root of my
expense account tastes!) I sat in a meeting where this man turned
rough, uncomfortable, cowhand's pants into fashion gear: you own a pair
of jeans, don't you, Bruce? None of the guys in that meeting would be
seen dead in jeans.

> I could very well be quite intelligent. Or not. I don't
> think any of this stuff has much to do with true intellect. One could
> be a cultured idiot or an uncultured genius.

To be cultured, discrimination, a learned art, is as good as true
intellect. True intellect gives entree to intellectual activities
peripheral to the arts, like criticism, and talent besides can make one
an artist. None of this necessarily brings happiness. Critics want to
be artists. True artists are never satisfied; the desire to do better
is what drives them. I know many perfectly self-satisfied trendies; I
don't let them in my house, of course, but they are at least happy in
their ignorance of the greener grass in the paddock next door.

> I don't discount the possibility that I still need character
> development or have personality flaws to address. Pretentiousness may
> very well be one of them. Your criticism isn't exactly constructive,
> however.

Suck me. Who said that I have a duty to be supportive of every
dithering teenager who flies his broomstick across my horizon?

> > Andre Jute
> > Artist. Intellectual. Bicyclist. Sophisticate. Dressed daily in
> > joggers.
>
> I at least have to dress professionally for work, so I might as well do
> it well. I realise that after a certain age, there's not much point in
> trying to look good, especially if you're married. I am still young by
> comparison to most here and a bachelor, so it's not yet a complete
> waste of time and effort. I put more effort into physical fitness than
> clothes though. A fat man in a $2000 suit is still a fat man, after
> all.

Never had a 2000 dollar suit in my life. My suits were from Pierre
Cardin's own hand (1), before he was famous, were cheap (if I paid for
them at all, they might have been complimentary), and the dozen or so
(which I wore with shirts off the last few bolts of Macclesfield silk
that my fashion account exec snared) lasted until I gave up wearing
suits for good and reverted to being a barefoot genius in a track suit.
When I meet Nelson Mandela, I stretch all the way to unpressed chinos
and an old yachting blazer. Note as a lesson in the snobbery of
possessions that things have greater value than mere expense when they
are unobtainable by anyone else (Cardin will never be young and unknown
again, the silk mills of Macclesfield are silent forever). Note in the
snobbery of superiority that inverse snobbery (unpressed chinos) works
better than mere brand names (actually my chinos are off the rack at
Marks & Spencer, the British parent of Brook Bros, but *you* shouldn't
ever admit that). There you go, Bruce, you only have to ask and I give
you a lesson in superficiality for which we will skip the gratitude.

Andre Jute
Trendiness coach

(1) In an earlier sullen genius stage I wore suits of Irish linen cut
for me by Lars Erik Christian of Copenhagen. The jackets had no sleeves
and no pockets (I didn't carry money because I didn't have time to go
anywhere where my company didn't run a tab and my assistants always had
a hankie and a cigar and credit cards, on which I once bought a second
Learjet because the ashtrays in the first one were full). The silk
shirts I wore with these suits had no buttons either to press into my
skin. Anyone who didn't like my navel could find another consultant. I
wore no shoes and my minders rolled a carpet out of the plane to the
car, and from the car to whichever building I wanted to enter. But you
shouldn't try that either; you need real talent and productivity to be
worth that much hassle and expense.

[Andre Jute]

Lord Valve wrote:
> .edu, huh? Lemme guess - you're so cool by now, your
> **** comes out wrapped in cellophane.
>
> LV

Don't mind his Lordship's crack, Bruce. He really has a heart of gold.
If you want sartorial advice, no one better to suck up to than Lord
Valve, the leading pimp in Denver. Knock the .edu off your address
before you write to him, as his ladies are always leaving him to go to
college so that they can learn to speak like him. He's a cool cat in
pinstripes with flares to match his black Jaguar with the red leather
and a dolly with thigh boots and big bazoombas for a driver. Don't make
any cracks about fat guys either--he's still hurting from having lost 8
stone in a bet about his willpower.

Andre Jute
Trendiness coach to aristocracy

[Bruce C. Miller]

Andre Jute wrote:
> Bruce C. Miller wrote:
> > Andre Jute wrote:
> > > You're not a Bohemian, Bruce, you're a snob.
>
> > I would have thought you would have been more supportive.
>
> Why ever? If you lurk on RAT you will know I admire precision of
> thought and expression. But why should I stroke someone who hasn't even
> troubled to discover the correct name for what he aspires to? You don't
> even know what a Bohemian is. Bohemia was a part of central London
> inhabited by artists and people closely involved with them.

Actually, that part of London is a part of Bohemia, rather than the
other way around. Bohemianism manifested itself in various urban
centers all over the Northern hemisphere.

> Painters,
> models, art dealers, are one example of a set of related bohemians.
> They produced works of art or were instrumental in producing them or in
> selling them. Someone who merely goes to a gallery to look at the
> painting made by Bohemian doesn't thereby become a Bohemian. Some
> Bohemians had a louche lifestyle, free love and all that, and some
> didn't wash too often, and some moved out to the countryside and
> committed incest with their daughers (Eric Gill), but the
> distinguishing mark of all was a life in the arts. (Note that all this
> is in the past tense. Bohemia is now inhabited by my publishers --
> those who haven't yet moved further out, all of whom would be hugely
> flattered to be called louche and some of whom may still dream of being
> offered free love but all of whom would certainly not touch the person
> who offered it with a ten-foot pole.) Bohemianism doesn't describe what
> you are trying to do with your life.

Bohemianism, in the way the term is generally used today, still refers
to the international cultural movement that you mention in part. The
lifestyle it represents is one much more "primitive" than to that which
I aspire. This is why I qualified my usage of the label with the
adjective "modern." Now, if we're done arguing semantics...

> If you had said merely that you want to be a cultured person, or
> stylish, or a trendy, or a hanger-on of the arts or intellectual life,
> I would have helped you out with a list of the right possessions, words
> and attitudes. Now that the communications revolution will put all
> information instantly at your fingertips, and all entertainment,
> literature, etc, we need enlightened, actively discriminating consumers
> of culture, which you are as specifically as you are not a Bohemian. (I
> suspect anyway from your writing and obsession with lists that you
> would be most uncomfortable with the general standard of hygiene among
> the arty-farties.)

As you have observed with my mechanical obsession of list making (an
obsession involving the making of a single list, by the way), art is an
influence on my life but will never be a way of life. This is because
while I am an eccentric, I am also a practical person. A non-relativist
cannot give himself completely to art without corrupting his world
view.

Thus, I don't admire art or artists in the same way that I suspect the
majority of true art devotees do. Take abstract art for an extreme
example. While an artist can claim that a formless blob of paint can
represent, say, a rebellion against architecture, I would say he's full
of ****. However, I can appreciate such a painting on an aesthetic
level. I can even more appreciate a clever and well executed metaphor
in more realistic art or ones that effectively evoke emotions, but I
won't worship it as some inexpressible cosmic gospel. This kind of
limited appreciation will exclude me from any art groupie crowd.

<snip>
> > Additionally, these changes have happened slowly over the last 10 years
> > or so. It's not like I woke up one day and decided I no longer liked
> > Hollywood movies and was going to watch art films. In the case of film,
> > for example, I gradually grew disenchanted with the assembly line of
> > cookie cutter plots and gravitated more towards more thoughtful films,
> > like I would assume any intelligent person would after getting a
> > constant dose of Hollywood for years and years. I don't hate those who
> > can find enjoyment out of a mindless action flick, but having
> > experienced it countless times, I'm tired of it. If that makes me a
> > snob, then I guess I am one.
>
> What makes you a snob is publicly expressed contempt for sound
> middle-class values, and dumb cracks about the proletariat. What makes
> you a snob is choosing some form of consumption because it is a
> minority interest. What makes you a snob is looking down on majority
> tastes. All of these solecisms you have publicly admitted to.

In practice, I have a live and let live policy with our plebian
friends. However, I shouldn't have to immediately follow a phrase like
"no, I mainly only watch independent films" with the phrase "but I'm
not a snob." An anti-cultural backlash awaits you in the majority of
commoners out there. Try telling some of the locals in your area about
your tastes in wines, electronics, and other finery and you'll
experience it too.

<snip>
> > I could very well be quite intelligent. Or not. I don't
> > think any of this stuff has much to do with true intellect. One could
> > be a cultured idiot or an uncultured genius.
>
> To be cultured, discrimination, a learned art, is as good as true
> intellect. True intellect gives entree to intellectual activities
> peripheral to the arts, like criticism, and talent besides can make one
> an artist. None of this necessarily brings happiness. Critics want to
> be artists. True artists are never satisfied; the desire to do better
> is what drives them. I know many perfectly self-satisfied trendies; I
> don't let them in my house, of course, but they are at least happy in
> their ignorance of the greener grass in the paddock next door.

I want to be and am an engineer, first and foremost. In whatever time I
have left over from this, I want to experience the best of what the
arts and the good life in general have to offer. The life of a starving
artist is something I want to avoid, but that doesn't mean I have to be
a trendy hanger-on. I can experience and even try my hand at art up to
the point that it ceases to enrich my life. I have no intention of
suffering for it.

In addition, you'll notice that art appreciation is but one part of a
larger development process. Just as important is time away from
stimulus. Alot of people's lives are constant overstimulation from
television, radio, traffic, and signs. I read on your site that you
listen to music 12 hrs a day. I've found that time alone with one's
thoughts can be just as enlightening as quality sensory input. My goal
is simply to reduce the noise and improve the quality of the signal.

[Sander deWaal]

"Bruce C. Miller" > said:

<snip>

You're digging yourself deeper and deeper into it, my boy.

You value silence and like to be alone with your thoughts, you wrote.
I suggest you continue doing so for a while, and post back to us when
you have a clue as to why you get reactions like Andre's.

You expected agreement and even appraisal, especially from him, and
you're not getting it. Au contraire.

To me, it is painfully clear why this is so.


Confucius say: "Lead by example." *)




*) but do so in silence

--

"Audio as a serious hobby is going down the tubes."
- Howard Ferstler, 25/4/2005

[Bruce C. Miller]

paul packer wrote:
> On 4 Oct 2005 06:15:42 -0700, "Bruce C. Miller" >
> wrote:
>
> >Andre Jute wrote:
<snip>
> >> I think you've been lucky so far not to meet a girl of genuine
> >> intellect and taste. When you do, her contempt for your pretentious
> >> shallowness will sear your soul.
> >
> >Hell, I'd be happy to meet one who wasn't crazy or just living for the
> >next shopping fix. Besides, I haven't said anything about my own
> >intellect. I could very well be quite intelligent. Or not. I don't
> >think any of this stuff has much to do with true intellect. One could
> >be a cultured idiot or an uncultured genius.
>
> Except that's more difficult than being a cultured genius or an
> uncultured idiot. Generally, people conform to stereotypes more often
> than not. I suggest you have an innate intelligence and discrimination
> that's leading you on a search for the better things in life, because
> there's something in you that needs sustenance. In other words, you've
> had enough Snickers bars. Now it's time for a nourishing salad roll.

Precisely! I'm not sure what nerve gets struck in people when you tell
them you don't subscribe to some common behavior you have decided you
are better without. Perhaps it is indictative of some primal need for
humans to enforce the status quo on fringe members of society.

An unwashed peasant will see a man of sensible tastes drinking a fine
wine and will ask, "wouldn't you be happier if you added a spot of poop
to your wine?" The gentleman will of course reply "No, I prefer not to
consume human feces." The peasant will then feel a strange need to
become angry and mock the gentleman's lack of poor taste.

> >I don't discount the possibility that I still need character
> >development or have personality flaws to address. Pretentiousness may
> >very well be one of them. Your criticism isn't exactly constructive,
> >however.
>
> Actually it was pretty stupid. The only thing wrong with your post was
> that it was so honest I thought it was a put-on. That's because one
> just doesn't expect honesty on RAO. Ignore the knockers. Go on as
> you're going--straight on till morning. ;-)

Thanks. Yes, I have better things to do than troll flamebait, which is
why I seldom post here :)

[Bruce C. Miller]

Sander deWaal wrote:
> "Bruce C. Miller" > said:
>
> <snip>
>
> You're digging yourself deeper and deeper into it, my boy.
>
> You value silence and like to be alone with your thoughts, you wrote.
> I suggest you continue doing so for a while, and post back to us when
> you have a clue as to why you get reactions like Andre's.
>
> You expected agreement and even appraisal, especially from him, and
> you're not getting it. Au contraire.

Well, he seems to have been set off by my use of a certain word.
Hopefully my most recent reply will clear things up for him.

> To me, it is painfully clear why this is so.
>
>
> Confucius say: "Lead by example." *)
>
>
>
>
> *) but do so in silence

The subject matter is benign, in my opinion. There are more important
things in life than what movies we watch. Had my post been "The making
of a modern Intelligensia" or "The making of a Moral Superior," then
perhaps what Confucius says would be more relevant. Besides, I'm asking
for advice, not preaching it.

[Sander deWaal]

"Bruce C. Miller" > said:

>The subject matter is benign, in my opinion. There are more important
>things in life than what movies we watch. Had my post been "The making
>of a modern Intelligensia" or "The making of a Moral Superior," then
>perhaps what Confucius says would be more relevant. Besides, I'm asking
>for advice, not preaching it.


Confucius say:"The quest for moral guidance lies within".

--

"Audio as a serious hobby is going down the tubes."
- Howard Ferstler, 25/4/2005

[Bruce C. Miller]

Sander deWaal wrote:
> "Bruce C. Miller" > said:
>
> >The subject matter is benign, in my opinion. There are more important
> >things in life than what movies we watch. Had my post been "The making
> >of a modern Intelligensia" or "The making of a Moral Superior," then
> >perhaps what Confucius says would be more relevant. Besides, I'm asking
> >for advice, not preaching it.
>
>
> Confucius say:"The quest for moral guidance lies within".

Confucius certainly talks alot for someone who suggests leading in
silence.

[Andre Jute]

I've changed my mind. I think we should encourage young Bruce, as an
example toujours l'outrage. -- Andre

Sander deWaal wrote:
> "Bruce C. Miller" > said:
>
> <snip>
>
> You're digging yourself deeper and deeper into it, my boy.
>
> You value silence and like to be alone with your thoughts, you wrote.
> I suggest you continue doing so for a while, and post back to us when
> you have a clue as to why you get reactions like Andre's.
>
> You expected agreement and even appraisal, especially from him, and
> you're not getting it. Au contraire.
>
> To me, it is painfully clear why this is so.
>
>
> Confucius say: "Lead by example." *)
>
>
>
>
> *) but do so in silence
>
> --
>
> "Audio as a serious hobby is going down the tubes."
> - Howard Ferstler, 25/4/2005

[Clyde Slick]

"Bruce C. Miller" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> Andre Jute wrote:
>> Bruce C. Miller wrote:
>> > Andre Jute wrote:
>> > > You're not a Bohemian, Bruce, you're a snob.
>>
>> > I would have thought you would have been more supportive.
>>
>> Why ever? If you lurk on RAT you will know I admire precision of
>> thought and expression. But why should I stroke someone who hasn't even
>> troubled to discover the correct name for what he aspires to? You don't
>> even know what a Bohemian is. Bohemia was a part of central London
>> inhabited by artists and people closely involved with them.
>
> Actually, that part of London is a part of Bohemia, rather than the
> other way around. Bohemianism manifested itself in various urban
> centers all over the Northern hemisphere.
>
>> Painters,
>> models, art dealers, are one example of a set of related bohemians.
>> They produced works of art or were instrumental in producing them or in
>> selling them. Someone who merely goes to a gallery to look at the
>> painting made by Bohemian doesn't thereby become a Bohemian. Some
>> Bohemians had a louche lifestyle, free love and all that, and some
>> didn't wash too often, and some moved out to the countryside and
>> committed incest with their daughers (Eric Gill), but the
>> distinguishing mark of all was a life in the arts. (Note that all this
>> is in the past tense. Bohemia is now inhabited by my publishers --
>> those who haven't yet moved further out, all of whom would be hugely
>> flattered to be called louche and some of whom may still dream of being
>> offered free love but all of whom would certainly not touch the person
>> who offered it with a ten-foot pole.) Bohemianism doesn't describe what
>> you are trying to do with your life.
>
> Bohemianism, in the way the term is generally used today, still refers
> to the international cultural movement that you mention in part. The
> lifestyle it represents is one much more "primitive" than to that which
> I aspire. This is why I qualified my usage of the label with the
> adjective "modern." Now, if we're done arguing semantics...
>
>> If you had said merely that you want to be a cultured person, or
>> stylish, or a trendy, or a hanger-on of the arts or intellectual life,
>> I would have helped you out with a list of the right possessions, words
>> and attitudes. Now that the communications revolution will put all
>> information instantly at your fingertips, and all entertainment,
>> literature, etc, we need enlightened, actively discriminating consumers
>> of culture, which you are as specifically as you are not a Bohemian. (I
>> suspect anyway from your writing and obsession with lists that you
>> would be most uncomfortable with the general standard of hygiene among
>> the arty-farties.)
>
> As you have observed with my mechanical obsession of list making (an
> obsession involving the making of a single list, by the way), art is an
> influence on my life but will never be a way of life. This is because
> while I am an eccentric, I am also a practical person. A non-relativist
> cannot give himself completely to art without corrupting his world
> view.
>
> Thus, I don't admire art or artists in the same way that I suspect the
> majority of true art devotees do. Take abstract art for an extreme
> example. While an artist can claim that a formless blob of paint can
> represent, say, a rebellion against architecture, I would say he's full
> of ****. However, I can appreciate such a painting on an aesthetic
> level. I can even more appreciate a clever and well executed metaphor
> in more realistic art or ones that effectively evoke emotions, but I
> won't worship it as some inexpressible cosmic gospel. This kind of
> limited appreciation will exclude me from any art groupie crowd.
>
> <snip>
>> > Additionally, these changes have happened slowly over the last 10 years
>> > or so. It's not like I woke up one day and decided I no longer liked
>> > Hollywood movies and was going to watch art films. In the case of film,
>> > for example, I gradually grew disenchanted with the assembly line of
>> > cookie cutter plots and gravitated more towards more thoughtful films,
>> > like I would assume any intelligent person would after getting a
>> > constant dose of Hollywood for years and years. I don't hate those who
>> > can find enjoyment out of a mindless action flick, but having
>> > experienced it countless times, I'm tired of it. If that makes me a
>> > snob, then I guess I am one.
>>
>> What makes you a snob is publicly expressed contempt for sound
>> middle-class values, and dumb cracks about the proletariat. What makes
>> you a snob is choosing some form of consumption because it is a
>> minority interest. What makes you a snob is looking down on majority
>> tastes. All of these solecisms you have publicly admitted to.
>
> In practice, I have a live and let live policy with our plebian
> friends. However, I shouldn't have to immediately follow a phrase like
> "no, I mainly only watch independent films" with the phrase "but I'm
> not a snob." An anti-cultural backlash awaits you in the majority of
> commoners out there. Try telling some of the locals in your area about
> your tastes in wines, electronics, and other finery and you'll
> experience it too.
>
> <snip>
>> > I could very well be quite intelligent. Or not. I don't
>> > think any of this stuff has much to do with true intellect. One could
>> > be a cultured idiot or an uncultured genius.
>>
>> To be cultured, discrimination, a learned art, is as good as true
>> intellect. True intellect gives entree to intellectual activities
>> peripheral to the arts, like criticism, and talent besides can make one
>> an artist. None of this necessarily brings happiness. Critics want to
>> be artists. True artists are never satisfied; the desire to do better
>> is what drives them. I know many perfectly self-satisfied trendies; I
>> don't let them in my house, of course, but they are at least happy in
>> their ignorance of the greener grass in the paddock next door.
>
> I want to be and am an engineer, first and foremost. In whatever time I
> have left over from this, I want to experience the best of what the
> arts and the good life in general have to offer. The life of a starving
> artist is something I want to avoid, but that doesn't mean I have to be
> a trendy hanger-on. I can experience and even try my hand at art up to
> the point that it ceases to enrich my life. I have no intention of
> suffering for it.
>
> In addition, you'll notice that art appreciation is but one part of a
> larger development process. Just as important is time away from
> stimulus. Alot of people's lives are constant overstimulation from
> television, radio, traffic, and signs. I read on your site that you
> listen to music 12 hrs a day. I've found that time alone with one's
> thoughts can be just as enlightening as quality sensory input. My goal
> is simply to reduce the noise and improve the quality of the signal.
>

I can't decide whether you are a bore or a boor.

[vinylbigot]

Only one thing do you lack, grasshopper.

You must reduce your sleep to 90 minutes a night--then will you the
illumination see.


"Bruce C. Miller" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> Part time lurker, almost never a poster here... I wondered where to ask
> this, and I figure ROA and RAT is a good a place as any.
>
> Over the course of my life, I've been slowly eliminating unnecessary,
> plebian possessions, consumables, behaviors, and other aspects of my
> life that are otherwise unsophisticated, mundane, low-brow, and
> commonplace. As I've done so, I've grown more and more disdain for the
> proles and their monster truck rallies, pro wrestling, and walmart
> furniture.
>
> I feel there are certainly things I'm leaving out on my journey from
> middle class commoner to urbane, misanthropic sophisticate, though I am
> definitely on the right track. Help me complete the transformation by
> pointing out anything I've missed. So far, I have addressed the
> following categories:
>
> - Music: Went from mass-marketed pop to various avant-garde and obscure
> genres (almost exclusively on vinyl of course)
>
> - TV: Went from an average 20-30 hr/wk viewer to no TV at all (I still
> watch movies on the computer, however).
>
> - Movies: Went from Hollywood mechanical narratives to art house
> experimental and foreign films.
>
> - Stereo: Went from mass-fi shelf system to extremely expensive
> audiophile system.
>
> - Clothing: Went from typical 90s fad wear to a more mature, classic
> look, usually from European designers.
>
> - Books: Went from reading mystery and scifi to more obscure classic
> literature and obscure contemporary prose and poetry.
>
> - Food: Went from eating junk food to various ethnic cuisines, often
> Mediterranean (I plan to get better cooking skills soon).
>
> - Beverages: Switched from coffee to tea and from dark beers to premium
> reds.
>
> - Furniture: Threw out anything made out of fiber or particle board or
> veneered. Slowly replacing with handmade real wood and metal furniture.
>
> - Health: Quit binge drinking and smoking. Started a 3-day/wk exercise
> plan.
>
> That's about all I can think of right now. There are little things too,
> like replacing my touchtone phone with a vintage all-metal rotary.
>
> I'm not an anachrophile or a luddite. I only eliminate those things
> which cause more stress than they relieve. There many modern things I
> don't intend to change (like my computers) and many commonplace items
> which still have a place (like paper towels).
>

[Ether]

Lord Valve wrote:
> Bruce C. Miller wrote:
> (A major snob rant is mercifully excised)
>
> .edu, huh? Lemme guess - you're so cool by now, your
> **** comes out wrapped in cellophane.
>
> LV

Speaking of which, how's that college-loving daughter of yours doing
this semester? (You must not hear from her very often, seeing as how
you're probably blocking her .edu domain.)

--E

[Lord Valve]

Andre Jute wrote:

> Lord Valve wrote:
> > .edu, huh? Lemme guess - you're so cool by now, your
> > **** comes out wrapped in cellophane.
> >
> > LV
>
> Don't mind his Lordship's crack, Bruce. He really has a heart of gold.
> If you want sartorial advice, no one better to suck up to than Lord
> Valve, the leading pimp in Denver. Knock the .edu off your address
> before you write to him, as his ladies are always leaving him to go to
> college so that they can learn to speak like him. He's a cool cat in
> pinstripes with flares to match his black Jaguar with the red leather
> and a dolly with thigh boots and big bazoombas for a driver. Don't make
> any cracks about fat guys either--he's still hurting from having lost 8
> stone in a bet about his willpower.

Hey - I remember that thread. ;-)

Remember - I can see through you, Andre. ;-)

LV

[paul packer]

On Tue, 4 Oct 2005 18:24:42 -0400, "Clyde Slick"
> wrote:


>> In addition, you'll notice that art appreciation is but one part of a
>> larger development process. Just as important is time away from
>> stimulus. Alot of people's lives are constant overstimulation from
>> television, radio, traffic, and signs. I read on your site that you
>> listen to music 12 hrs a day. I've found that time alone with one's
>> thoughts can be just as enlightening as quality sensory input. My goal
>> is simply to reduce the noise and improve the quality of the signal.
>>
>
>I can't decide whether you are a bore or a boor.

And why does that conundrum raise its ugly head in your fevered brain,
Art?

[Andre Jute]

Lord Valve wrote:
> Andre Jute wrote:
>
> > Lord Valve wrote:
> > > .edu, huh? Lemme guess - you're so cool by now, your
> > > **** comes out wrapped in cellophane.
> > >
> > > LV
> >
> > Don't mind his Lordship's crack, Bruce. He really has a heart of gold.
> > If you want sartorial advice, no one better to suck up to than Lord
> > Valve, the leading pimp in Denver. Knock the .edu off your address
> > before you write to him, as his ladies are always leaving him to go to
> > college so that they can learn to speak like him. He's a cool cat in
> > pinstripes with flares to match his black Jaguar with the red leather
> > and a dolly with thigh boots and big bazoombas for a driver. Don't make
> > any cracks about fat guys either--he's still hurting from having lost 8
> > stone in a bet about his willpower.
>
> Hey - I remember that thread. ;-)
>
> Remember - I can see through you, Andre. ;-)
>
> LV

Oh, darn. And I so looked forward to being a troublemaker.

Andre Jute
Transparent

[Andre Jute]

Lord Valve wrote:
> Andre Jute wrote:
>
> > Lord Valve wrote:
> > > .edu, huh? Lemme guess - you're so cool by now, your
> > > **** comes out wrapped in cellophane.
> > >
> > > LV
> >
> > Don't mind his Lordship's crack, Bruce. He really has a heart of gold.
> > If you want sartorial advice, no one better to suck up to than Lord
> > Valve, the leading pimp in Denver. Knock the .edu off your address
> > before you write to him, as his ladies are always leaving him to go to
> > college so that they can learn to speak like him. He's a cool cat in
> > pinstripes with flares to match his black Jaguar with the red leather
> > and a dolly with thigh boots and big bazoombas for a driver. Don't make
> > any cracks about fat guys either--he's still hurting from having lost 8
> > stone in a bet about his willpower.
>
> Hey - I remember that thread. ;-)
>
> Remember - I can see through you, Andre. ;-)
>
> LV

Oh, darn. And I so looked forward to being a troublemaker.

Andre Jute
Transparent

[Clyde Slick]

"paul packer" > wrote in message
...
> On Tue, 4 Oct 2005 18:24:42 -0400, "Clyde Slick"
> > wrote:
>
>
>>> In addition, you'll notice that art appreciation is but one part of a
>>> larger development process. Just as important is time away from
>>> stimulus. Alot of people's lives are constant overstimulation from
>>> television, radio, traffic, and signs. I read on your site that you
>>> listen to music 12 hrs a day. I've found that time alone with one's
>>> thoughts can be just as enlightening as quality sensory input. My goal
>>> is simply to reduce the noise and improve the quality of the signal.
>>>
>>
>>I can't decide whether you are a bore or a boor.
>
> And why does that conundrum raise its ugly head in your fevered brain,
> Art?


If you get excited by Bruce's self indulgent
ramblings, so be it.

[Jon Yaeger]

Andre,

I'll genuflect your way because I know you were a childhood genius, a war
hero, an award-winning radio announcer, a commander general of SWAPO, a
Nobel Laureate, Nelson Mandela's secret right-hand man, the winner of two
Pulitzers, designer extraordinaire of audio equipment, autos, and the Lear
Jet, Knighted by the Queen herself, etc. etc.

I know in your self-absorbed narcissistic reverie it might never occur to
you that there are forums that are geared to your brilliant and esoteric
opinions on DDT, the war in Iraq, Bohemians, etc. ad nauseam.

Rec.audio.tubes ain't one of them.

Your friend,

Jon

[Andre Jute]

I have my own fartcatcher. It has been years since I last contributed
to a thread without the crooked garage trader and Atlanta rent-boy Jon
Yaeger, also know to the Atland PD as John and Jono, chiming in with
some irrelevant attack.

Hey, Bruce, when your opinions attract the reflex obliquy of the
slimier morons on the net, like Jon-John-Jono Yeager, you'll know you
have arrived, perhaps even with an opinion of your own rather than the
predigested designer brands of political correctness as believed by the
lowest common denominators that you call proles.

Andre Jute

Jon Yaeger wrote:
> Andre,
>
> I'll genuflect your way because I know you were a childhood genius, a war
> hero, an award-winning radio announcer, a commander general of SWAPO, a
> Nobel Laureate, Nelson Mandela's secret right-hand man, the winner of two
> Pulitzers, designer extraordinaire of audio equipment, autos, and the Lear
> Jet, Knighted by the Queen herself, etc. etc.
>
> I know in your self-absorbed narcissistic reverie it might never occur to
> you that there are forums that are geared to your brilliant and esoteric
> opinions on DDT, the war in Iraq, Bohemians, etc. ad nauseam.
>
> Rec.audio.tubes ain't one of them.
>
> Your friend,
>
> Jon

[Bruce C. Miller]

Andre Jute wrote:
> I have my own fartcatcher. It has been years since I last contributed
> to a thread without the crooked garage trader and Atlanta rent-boy Jon
> Yaeger, also know to the Atland PD as John and Jono, chiming in with
> some irrelevant attack.
>
> Hey, Bruce, when your opinions attract the reflex obliquy of the
> slimier morons on the net, like Jon-John-Jono Yeager, you'll know you
> have arrived, perhaps even with an opinion of your own rather than the
> predigested designer brands of political correctness as believed by the
> lowest common denominators that you call proles.

Yes, because calling someone a "garage trader" or "rent-boy" is
completely different from calling them a proletariat.

[George Middius]

Bruce C. Miller said:

>> Hey, Bruce, when your opinions attract the reflex obliquy of the
>> slimier morons on the net, like Jon-John-Jono Yeager, you'll know you
>> have arrived, perhaps even with an opinion of your own rather than the
>> predigested designer brands of political correctness as believed by the
>> lowest common denominators that you call proles.

>Yes, because calling someone a "garage trader" or "rent-boy" is
>completely different from calling them a proletariat.

The word is "proletarian", and it should be "him" rather than "them". As you
proceed with tuning up your tastes for material goods, you might consider
polishing your composition skills a tad.

[Bruce C. Miller]

George Middius wrote:
> Bruce C. Miller said:
>
> >> Hey, Bruce, when your opinions attract the reflex obliquy of the
> >> slimier morons on the net, like Jon-John-Jono Yeager, you'll know you
> >> have arrived, perhaps even with an opinion of your own rather than the
> >> predigested designer brands of political correctness as believed by the
> >> lowest common denominators that you call proles.
>
> >Yes, because calling someone a "garage trader" or "rent-boy" is
> >completely different from calling them a proletariat.
>
> The word is "proletarian", and it should be "him" rather than "them". As you
> proceed with tuning up your tastes for material goods, you might consider
> polishing your composition skills a tad.

Thanks, officer.

BTW, since "someone" doesn't necessarily refer to anyone in particular,
"them" is considered an acceptable singular pronoun replacing "he or
she."

http://www.askoxford.com/asktheexperts/faq/aboutgrammar/they

[Don Pearce]

On 5 Oct 2005 13:07:08 -0700, Bruce C. Miller wrote:

> George Middius wrote:
>> Bruce C. Miller said:
>>
>>>> Hey, Bruce, when your opinions attract the reflex obliquy of the
>>>> slimier morons on the net, like Jon-John-Jono Yeager, you'll know you
>>>> have arrived, perhaps even with an opinion of your own rather than the
>>>> predigested designer brands of political correctness as believed by the
>>>> lowest common denominators that you call proles.
>>
>>>Yes, because calling someone a "garage trader" or "rent-boy" is
>>>completely different from calling them a proletariat.
>>
>> The word is "proletarian", and it should be "him" rather than "them". As you
>> proceed with tuning up your tastes for material goods, you might consider
>> polishing your composition skills a tad.
>
> Thanks, officer.
>
> BTW, since "someone" doesn't necessarily refer to anyone in particular,
> "them" is considered an acceptable singular pronoun replacing "he or
> she."
>
> http://www.askoxford.com/asktheexperts/faq/aboutgrammar/they

No. "They" could replace "he or she". "Them" would replace "him or her".

d

[George Middius]

Bruce C. Miller said:

>> >Yes, because calling someone a "garage trader" or "rent-boy" is
>> >completely different from calling them a proletariat.
>>
>> The word is "proletarian", and it should be "him" rather than "them". As you
>> proceed with tuning up your tastes for material goods, you might consider
>> polishing your composition skills a tad.
>
>Thanks, officer.
>
>BTW, since "someone" doesn't necessarily refer to anyone in particular,
>"them" is considered an acceptable singular pronoun replacing "he or
>she."

Not by anybody with a little bit of class.

[Andre Jute]

Bruce C. Miller wrote:
> Andre Jute wrote:
> > I have my own fartcatcher. It has been years since I last contributed
> > to a thread without the crooked garage trader and Atlanta rent-boy Jon
> > Yaeger, also know to the Atland PD as John and Jono, chiming in with
> > some irrelevant attack.
> >
> > Hey, Bruce, when your opinions attract the reflex obliquy of the
> > slimier morons on the net, like Jon-John-Jono Yeager, you'll know you
> > have arrived, perhaps even with an opinion of your own rather than the
> > predigested designer brands of political correctness as believed by the
> > lowest common denominators that you call proles.
>
> Yes, because calling someone a "garage trader" or "rent-boy" is
> completely different from calling them a proletariat.

I think we're having a misunderstanding about numbers here, Bruce. Jon
Yaeger is only one queer, also known as John and Jono, but still only
one queer, singular, and therefore a proletarian if only in the sense
that a proletarian is a workingman and Jono the rentboy is surely a
hardworking asshole.

In general, one proletarian plus another proletarian plus several more
proletarians make up a proletariat, a mob by any other name.

Proletariat is a technical word in communism, now not used in any
non-pejorative sense by anyone not on the fascist left, and rarely by
them. It is used by everyone else only as a sneer, as you did.

I don't even know that there are any proletarians today. It must be a
quarter-century since Frank Chappell, leader of Electrician's Union in
England, said, "How can I go to my members and say, Brother, let me
raise you out of your misery, when all they want to talk about is
whether it is safe to leave the speedboat at the marina near the
holiday home in Marbella." (That's in Spain and you should check the
pronunciation before you make a fool of yourself.)

I think the other rent-boys on the river might ostracize Jono if they
think he is proletarian; well, maybe not, if he is rough trade (I don't
really know; he attached himself to me like a lost puppy; I ask no
questions for fear of what the answers might be).

Andre Jute

[Andre Jute]

I see now that you and George have sorted the kid. I coulda saved my
breath. Thanks Don, George. -- Andre Jute

Don Pearce wrote:
> On 5 Oct 2005 13:07:08 -0700, Bruce C. Miller wrote:
>
> > George Middius wrote:
> >> Bruce C. Miller said:
> >>
> >>>> Hey, Bruce, when your opinions attract the reflex obliquy of the
> >>>> slimier morons on the net, like Jon-John-Jono Yeager, you'll know you
> >>>> have arrived, perhaps even with an opinion of your own rather than the
> >>>> predigested designer brands of political correctness as believed by the
> >>>> lowest common denominators that you call proles.
> >>
> >>>Yes, because calling someone a "garage trader" or "rent-boy" is
> >>>completely different from calling them a proletariat.
> >>
> >> The word is "proletarian", and it should be "him" rather than "them". As you
> >> proceed with tuning up your tastes for material goods, you might consider
> >> polishing your composition skills a tad.
> >
> > Thanks, officer.
> >
> > BTW, since "someone" doesn't necessarily refer to anyone in particular,
> > "them" is considered an acceptable singular pronoun replacing "he or
> > she."
> >
> > http://www.askoxford.com/asktheexperts/faq/aboutgrammar/they
>
> No. "They" could replace "he or she". "Them" would replace "him or her".
>
> d

[Andre Jute]

I see now that you and George have sorted the kid. I coulda saved my
breath. Thanks Don, George. -- Andre Jute

Don Pearce wrote:
> On 5 Oct 2005 13:07:08 -0700, Bruce C. Miller wrote:
>
> > George Middius wrote:
> >> Bruce C. Miller said:
> >>
> >>>> Hey, Bruce, when your opinions attract the reflex obliquy of the
> >>>> slimier morons on the net, like Jon-John-Jono Yeager, you'll know you
> >>>> have arrived, perhaps even with an opinion of your own rather than the
> >>>> predigested designer brands of political correctness as believed by the
> >>>> lowest common denominators that you call proles.
> >>
> >>>Yes, because calling someone a "garage trader" or "rent-boy" is
> >>>completely different from calling them a proletariat.
> >>
> >> The word is "proletarian", and it should be "him" rather than "them". As you
> >> proceed with tuning up your tastes for material goods, you might consider
> >> polishing your composition skills a tad.
> >
> > Thanks, officer.
> >
> > BTW, since "someone" doesn't necessarily refer to anyone in particular,
> > "them" is considered an acceptable singular pronoun replacing "he or
> > she."
> >
> > http://www.askoxford.com/asktheexperts/faq/aboutgrammar/they
>
> No. "They" could replace "he or she". "Them" would replace "him or her".
>
> d

[Andre Jute]

I see now that you and George have sorted the kid. I coulda saved my
breath. Thanks Don, George. -- Andre Jute

Don Pearce wrote:
> On 5 Oct 2005 13:07:08 -0700, Bruce C. Miller wrote:
>
> > George Middius wrote:
> >> Bruce C. Miller said:
> >>
> >>>> Hey, Bruce, when your opinions attract the reflex obliquy of the
> >>>> slimier morons on the net, like Jon-John-Jono Yeager, you'll know you
> >>>> have arrived, perhaps even with an opinion of your own rather than the
> >>>> predigested designer brands of political correctness as believed by the
> >>>> lowest common denominators that you call proles.
> >>
> >>>Yes, because calling someone a "garage trader" or "rent-boy" is
> >>>completely different from calling them a proletariat.
> >>
> >> The word is "proletarian", and it should be "him" rather than "them". As you
> >> proceed with tuning up your tastes for material goods, you might consider
> >> polishing your composition skills a tad.
> >
> > Thanks, officer.
> >
> > BTW, since "someone" doesn't necessarily refer to anyone in particular,
> > "them" is considered an acceptable singular pronoun replacing "he or
> > she."
> >
> > http://www.askoxford.com/asktheexperts/faq/aboutgrammar/they
>
> No. "They" could replace "he or she". "Them" would replace "him or her".
>
> d

[dave weil]

On 5 Oct 2005 13:07:08 -0700, "Bruce C. Miller" >
wrote:

>George Middius wrote:
>> Bruce C. Miller said:
>>
>> >> Hey, Bruce, when your opinions attract the reflex obliquy of the
>> >> slimier morons on the net, like Jon-John-Jono Yeager, you'll know you
>> >> have arrived, perhaps even with an opinion of your own rather than the
>> >> predigested designer brands of political correctness as believed by the
>> >> lowest common denominators that you call proles.
>>
>> >Yes, because calling someone a "garage trader" or "rent-boy" is
>> >completely different from calling them a proletariat.
>>
>> The word is "proletarian", and it should be "him" rather than "them". As you
>> proceed with tuning up your tastes for material goods, you might consider
>> polishing your composition skills a tad.
>
>Thanks, officer.
>
>BTW, since "someone" doesn't necessarily refer to anyone in particular,
>"them" is considered an acceptable singular pronoun replacing "he or
>she."
>
>http://www.askoxford.com/asktheexperts/faq/aboutgrammar/they

Don't worry, it's just an "obliiquy" from our "professional writer".

Well, not "our" (referring to RAO).

Funny how the chickens come home to roost (and yes, I've had MY share
of chickens roosting on MY head <chuckle>).

[Ruud Broens]

"Andre Jute" > wrote 3 times in a message
oups.com...
: I see now that you and George have sorted the kid. I coulda saved my
: breath. Thanks Don, George. -- Andre Jute

He, Dre, You've got a hairy mouse, too ?
R.

[paul packer]

On Wed, 5 Oct 2005 08:04:25 -0400, "Clyde Slick"
> wrote:


>>>I can't decide whether you are a bore or a boor.
>>
>> And why does that conundrum raise its ugly head in your fevered brain,
>> Art?
>
>
>If you get excited by Bruce's self indulgent
>ramblings, so be it.

I get excited by anything that isn't the same pointless bickering to
no end. But in fact I found Bruce refreshingly honest. I admit some of
his language was a bit intemperate in our "all men are created equal"
society, but hey, he's finding his way, moving into a new sphere of
life. How about cutting him a bit of slack. After all, he could be
sinking into drug addiction and alcoholism, or just decided to embrace
Satanic heavy metal. Isn't this better? :-)

[paul packer]

On 5 Oct 2005 13:28:17 -0700, George Middius
> wrote:

>
>
>Bruce C. Miller said:
>
>>> >Yes, because calling someone a "garage trader" or "rent-boy" is
>>> >completely different from calling them a proletariat.
>>>
>>> The word is "proletarian", and it should be "him" rather than "them". As you
>>> proceed with tuning up your tastes for material goods, you might consider
>>> polishing your composition skills a tad.
>>
>>Thanks, officer.
>>
>>BTW, since "someone" doesn't necessarily refer to anyone in particular,
>>"them" is considered an acceptable singular pronoun replacing "he or
>>she."
>
>Not by anybody with a little bit of class.

That's a bit of a low blow, George.

[George M. Middius]

paul packer said:

> >Not by anybody with a little bit of class.

> That's a bit of a low blow, George.

Are you drumming me out of the Snobs' League?

[Clyde Slick]

"paul packer" > wrote in message
...
> On Wed, 5 Oct 2005 08:04:25 -0400, "Clyde Slick"
> > wrote:
>
>
>>>>I can't decide whether you are a bore or a boor.
>>>
>>> And why does that conundrum raise its ugly head in your fevered brain,
>>> Art?
>>
>>
>>If you get excited by Bruce's self indulgent
>>ramblings, so be it.
>
> I get excited by anything that isn't the same pointless bickering to
> no end. But in fact I found Bruce refreshingly honest. I admit some of
> his language was a bit intemperate in our "all men are created equal"
> society, but hey, he's finding his way, moving into a new sphere of
> life. How about cutting him a bit of slack. After all, he could be
> sinking into drug addiction and alcoholism, or just decided to embrace
> Satanic heavy metal. Isn't this better? :-)

I just have no respect for anyone
that equates parading around the house in
a Hugh Hefner pajama set as being a "Bohemian".

[Jon Yaeger]

in article . com, Andre Jute
at wrote on 10/5/05 12:01 PM:

> I have my own fartcatcher. It has been years since I last contributed
> to a thread without the crooked garage trader and Atlanta rent-boy Jon
> Yaeger, also know to the Atland PD as John and Jono, chiming in with
> some irrelevant attack.
>

I'm afraid I'm not the one guilty of irrelevance here . . . .

An online dictionary of vulgar terms defines "fartcatcher" as someone who is
the active partner during anal sex. That clearly establishes your position
in such a tryst, dear Andre . . . . .

;-)

[Robert Morein]

"Bruce C. Miller" > wrote in message
oups.com...
[snip]
> >
> > Actually it was pretty stupid. The only thing wrong with your post was
> > that it was so honest I thought it was a put-on. That's because one
> > just doesn't expect honesty on RAO. Ignore the knockers. Go on as
> > you're going--straight on till morning. ;-)
>
> Thanks. Yes, I have better things to do than troll flamebait, which is
> why I seldom post here :)
>
One more thought, Bruce.
Move to one of the world-class cities.
No man is an island. You aspire to higher things, but I get the impression
that the cost to you is increased isolation.
You probably subscribe to existentialism. According to this doctrine, a man
is not fully made until he's dead.

[Robert Morein]

"Clyde Slick" > wrote in message
...
>
> "paul packer" > wrote in message
> ...
> > On Wed, 5 Oct 2005 08:04:25 -0400, "Clyde Slick"
> > > wrote:
> >
> >
> >>>>I can't decide whether you are a bore or a boor.
> >>>
> >>> And why does that conundrum raise its ugly head in your fevered brain,
> >>> Art?
> >>
> >>
> >>If you get excited by Bruce's self indulgent
> >>ramblings, so be it.
> >
> > I get excited by anything that isn't the same pointless bickering to
> > no end. But in fact I found Bruce refreshingly honest. I admit some of
> > his language was a bit intemperate in our "all men are created equal"
> > society, but hey, he's finding his way, moving into a new sphere of
> > life. How about cutting him a bit of slack. After all, he could be
> > sinking into drug addiction and alcoholism, or just decided to embrace
> > Satanic heavy metal. Isn't this better? :-)
>
> I just have no respect for anyone
> that equates parading around the house in
> a Hugh Hefner pajama set as being a "Bohemian".
>
True, but think of what a makeover would do for Mikey.

[Clyde Slick]

"Robert Morein" > wrote in message
...
> .
> You probably subscribe to existentialism. According to this doctrine, a
> man
> is not fully made until he's dead.
>


Thank God my progress is so slow.

[Robert Morein]

"Clyde Slick" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Robert Morein" > wrote in message
> ...
> > .
> > You probably subscribe to existentialism. According to this doctrine, a
> > man
> > is not fully made until he's dead.
> >
>
>
> Thank God my progress is so slow.
>
Yes, I'm procrastinating as well.

[Andre Jute]

Ruud Broens wrote:
> "Andre Jute" > wrote 3 times in a message
> oups.com...
> : I see now that you and George have sorted the kid. I coulda saved my
> : breath. Thanks Don, George. -- Andre Jute
>
> He, Dre, You've got a hairy mouse, too ?
> R.

Nope. Apple Wireless Mouse.

Okay, Ruud, in the interest of street cred, I'll bite. What is "a
hairy mouse"? I hope it isn't another slimy Yaeger-trail.

Andre Jute

[Andre Jute]

Fartcatcher defines a useless jerk on a newsgroup who contributes
nothng but follows around a more useful member of the internet
community to make a useless comment on every post from the useful
member.

Leave your disgusting sex-work off the net, Yaeger. Take your crooked
garage trading away to wherever Vince the Nodding Dog went when I ran
him out.

Andre Jute

Jon Yaeger wrote:
> in article . com, Andre Jute
> at wrote on 10/5/05 12:01 PM:
>
> > I have my own fartcatcher. It has been years since I last contributed
> > to a thread without the crooked garage trader and Atlanta rent-boy Jon
> > Yaeger, also known to the Atland PD as John and Jono, chiming in with
> > some irrelevant attack.
> >
>
> [snipped, Yaeger's description of his disgusting work]

[Ruud Broens]

"Andre Jute" > wrote in message
oups.com...
: Ruud Broens wrote:
: > "Andre Jute" > wrote 3 times in a message
: > oups.com...
: > : I see now that you and George have sorted the kid. I coulda saved my
: > : breath. Thanks Don, George. -- Andre Jute
: >
: > He, Dre, You've got a hairy mouse, too ?
: > R.
:
: Nope. Apple Wireless Mouse.
:
: Okay, Ruud, in the interest of street cred, I'll bite. What is "a
: hairy mouse"? I hope it isn't another slimy Yaeger-trail.
:
: Andre Jute
:
Heh. It's Clyde Slick's excuse for multiple postings - cat's hair
clogging his mouse. RAO joke. or something.
Rudy

[George Middius]

::::::::::::::::::::Ruud::::::::Broens:::::::said:

>:

Stop that.

>Heh. It's Clyde Slick's excuse for multiple postings - cat's hair
>clogging his mouse. RAO joke. or something.

You're making that up. The actual excuse he gives is that he twitches and
sometimes clicks the mouse button involuntarily.
:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::

[Ruud Broens]

"George Middius" > wrote in message
...
:
:
:
: ::::::::::::::::::::Ruud::::::::Broens:::::::said:
:
: >:
:
: Stop that.
:
: >Heh. It's Clyde Slick's excuse for multiple postings - cat's hair
: >clogging his mouse. RAO joke. or something.
:
: You're making that up. The actual excuse he gives is that he twitches and
: sometimes clicks the mouse button involuntarily.
: :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
: :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
: :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
: :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
: :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
: :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
: 16. Clyde Slick 7 jan 02:05 opties weergeven

Nieuwsgroepen: rec.audio.opinion
Van: "Clyde Slick" >
Datum: Thu, 6 Jan 2005 19:05:47 -0500
Lokaal: vr 7 jan 2005 02:05
Onderwerp: Re: The weirdest listening experience
Auteur beantwoorden | Doorsturen | Afdrukken | Afzonderlijk bericht |
Origineel weergeven | Misbruik melden



"Sander deWaal" > wrote in message


...


> Art suffers from the "sticky mouse" syndrome.
> He parted out nearly all of his antiquated electronics, but he insists
> on keeping his 1974 design mouse ;-)



My cat's hair always ends up in my mouse's gut.


:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
::::::::::::

[Clyde Slick]

"Ruud Broens" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Andre Jute" > wrote in message
> oups.com...
> : Ruud Broens wrote:
> : > "Andre Jute" > wrote 3 times in a message
> : > oups.com...
> : > : I see now that you and George have sorted the kid. I coulda saved my
> : > : breath. Thanks Don, George. -- Andre Jute
> : >
> : > He, Dre, You've got a hairy mouse, too ?
> : > R.
> :
> : Nope. Apple Wireless Mouse.
> :
> : Okay, Ruud, in the interest of street cred, I'll bite. What is "a
> : hairy mouse"? I hope it isn't another slimy Yaeger-trail.
> :
> : Andre Jute
> :
> Heh. It's Clyde Slick's excuse for multiple postings - cat's hair
> clogging his mouse. RAO joke. or something.
> Rudy
>
>

Yes, alas, I got rid of the cat but the mouse still sticks.

[Clyde Slick]

"George Middius" > wrote in message
...
>
>
>
> ::::::::::::::::::::Ruud::::::::Broens:::::::said:
>
>>:
>
> Stop that.
>
>>Heh. It's Clyde Slick's excuse for multiple postings - cat's hair
>>clogging his mouse. RAO joke. or something.
>
> You're making that up. The actual excuse he gives is that he twitches and
> sometimes clicks the mouse button involuntarily.
> :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::

Actually, I gave both excuses.

[paul packer]

On Wed, 05 Oct 2005 22:15:11 -0400, George M. Middius <cmndr
[underscore] george [at] comcast [dot] net> wrote:

>
>
>paul packer said:
>
>> >Not by anybody with a little bit of class.
>
>> That's a bit of a low blow, George.
>
>Are you drumming me out of the Snobs' League?

Just reminding you of your duty to uphold goodness and niceness on
this NG. :-)

[paul packer]

On Thu, 6 Oct 2005 00:16:18 -0400, "Clyde Slick"
> wrote:

>
>"Robert Morein" > wrote in message
...
>> .
>> You probably subscribe to existentialism. According to this doctrine, a
>> man
>> is not fully made until he's dead.
>>
>
>
>Thank God my progress is so slow.

You noticed that too, Art? :-)

[paul packer]

On Wed, 5 Oct 2005 22:25:00 -0400, "Clyde Slick"
> wrote:


>> I get excited by anything that isn't the same pointless bickering to
>> no end. But in fact I found Bruce refreshingly honest. I admit some of
>> his language was a bit intemperate in our "all men are created equal"
>> society, but hey, he's finding his way, moving into a new sphere of
>> life. How about cutting him a bit of slack. After all, he could be
>> sinking into drug addiction and alcoholism, or just decided to embrace
>> Satanic heavy metal. Isn't this better? :-)
>
>I just have no respect for anyone
>that equates parading around the house in
>a Hugh Hefner pajama set as being a "Bohemian".

You've been looking in the window?

[Clyde Slick]

"paul packer" > wrote in message
...
> On Thu, 6 Oct 2005 00:16:18 -0400, "Clyde Slick"
> > wrote:
>
>>
>>"Robert Morein" > wrote in message
...
>>> .
>>> You probably subscribe to existentialism. According to this doctrine, a
>>> man
>>> is not fully made until he's dead.
>>>
>>
>>
>>Thank God my progress is so slow.
>
> You noticed that too, Art? :-)



Not yet, maybe tomorrow.