Bryston 4B SST vs. Aragon 8008 MKII vs. Hafler 9505

[[email protected]]

Greetings,

Interested in opinions on these three amplifiers, which I am
considering to power original Von Schweikert VR-4's......

I need to tighten up the bottom end and get more "punch" out of the
midbass on these VR-4's.......

The Hafler shines on the spec sheet, with a superfast slew rate and
incredibly high damping factor, but I don't buy on spec's alone....

The Aragon, despite the Bryston's rating of 300/wpc, seems to be the
"brute" of the bunch, with a massive, dual power supply and huge
filter capacitance. I would imagine the 200/wpc spec is very
conservatively rated. The heaviest amplifier of the bunch, if that
means anything....

The Bryston seems to get rave reviews, but I'm concerned about its
reportedly "laid back" presentation. The VR-4's are slightly "dark"
to begin with, and I need something to bring them to life.....

Any input would be greatly appreciated......

Thanks!!

[[email protected]]

schrieb:
> Greetings,
>
> Interested in opinions on these three amplifiers, which I am
> considering to power original Von Schweikert VR-4's......
>
> I need to tighten up the bottom end and get more "punch" out of the
> midbass on these VR-4's.......
>
> The Hafler shines on the spec sheet, with a superfast slew rate and
> incredibly high damping factor, but I don't buy on spec's alone....
>
> The Aragon, despite the Bryston's rating of 300/wpc, seems to be the
> "brute" of the bunch, with a massive, dual power supply and huge
> filter capacitance. I would imagine the 200/wpc spec is very
> conservatively rated. The heaviest amplifier of the bunch, if that
> means anything....
>
> The Bryston seems to get rave reviews, but I'm concerned about its
> reportedly "laid back" presentation. The VR-4's are slightly "dark"
> to begin with, and I need something to bring them to life.....
>
> Any input would be greatly appreciated......
>
> Thanks!!
>
>
Does the amplifiers sound so different? Is this in the real sound, or
in the imagining the sound? I imagine often the different sound of the
amplifiers, but is it real?

[[email protected]]

On 25 May 2005 08:29:43 -0700, wrote:



>Does the amplifiers sound so different? Is this in the real sound, or
>in the imagining the sound? I imagine often the different sound of the
>amplifiers, but is it real?

Supposedly there is a difference between MOSFET and BiPolar designs,
but whether or not I could hear the difference is another story....

My system sounds a little "muddy" in the low-mid's with a MOSFET amp,
but I've yet to try a BiPolar amp......

[Robert Morein]

> wrote in message
...
> Greetings,
>
> Interested in opinions on these three amplifiers, which I am
> considering to power original Von Schweikert VR-4's......
>
> I need to tighten up the bottom end and get more "punch" out of the
> midbass on these VR-4's.......
>
> The Hafler shines on the spec sheet, with a superfast slew rate and
> incredibly high damping factor, but I don't buy on spec's alone....
>
> The Aragon, despite the Bryston's rating of 300/wpc, seems to be the
> "brute" of the bunch, with a massive, dual power supply and huge
> filter capacitance. I would imagine the 200/wpc spec is very
> conservatively rated. The heaviest amplifier of the bunch, if that
> means anything....
>
> The Bryston seems to get rave reviews, but I'm concerned about its
> reportedly "laid back" presentation. The VR-4's are slightly "dark"
> to begin with, and I need something to bring them to life.....
>
> Any input would be greatly appreciated......
>
> Thanks!!

I've heard older Brystons, and been unimpressed. They sound too much like
QSC sound reinforcement amps -- dull, uninvolving, and lacking detail.
The Aragon MKII is quite a good amp. The original MKI was a low bias, Class
AB amp with a grainy sound.
Those familiar with this group know that I like Hafler amps. However, the
9505 is probably not the best match for the VR4. I would recommend the
Aragon for this speaker.

[jclause]

>I would recommend the Aragon for this speaker.


The Aragon will lift three veils,
And you will hear the details..
Of music so clear,
And lovely to hear
And to please it never fails.

Hammingaway

[Margaret von B.]

"Robert Morein" > wrote in message
...
>
> > wrote in message
> ...
>> Greetings,
>>
>> Interested in opinions on these three amplifiers, which I am
>> considering to power original Von Schweikert VR-4's......
>>
>> I need to tighten up the bottom end and get more "punch" out of the
>> midbass on these VR-4's.......
>>
>> The Hafler shines on the spec sheet, with a superfast slew rate and
>> incredibly high damping factor, but I don't buy on spec's alone....
>>
>> The Aragon, despite the Bryston's rating of 300/wpc, seems to be the
>> "brute" of the bunch, with a massive, dual power supply and huge
>> filter capacitance. I would imagine the 200/wpc spec is very
>> conservatively rated. The heaviest amplifier of the bunch, if that
>> means anything....
>>
>> The Bryston seems to get rave reviews, but I'm concerned about its
>> reportedly "laid back" presentation. The VR-4's are slightly "dark"
>> to begin with, and I need something to bring them to life.....
>>
>> Any input would be greatly appreciated......
>>
>> Thanks!!
>
> I've heard older Brystons, and been unimpressed. They sound too much like
> QSC sound reinforcement amps -- dull, uninvolving, and lacking detail.
> The Aragon MKII is quite a good amp. The original MKI was a low bias,
> Class
> AB amp with a grainy sound.

The Aragon Palladium monos are excellent if one can find a used pair
(usually cheap) and they can drive and control just about any speaker. A
friend of mine in Boston used them to drive his Scintillas if my memory
serves me and they did not blow up in a decade of service. I recently bought
a spare pair of Parasound Halo JC-1 monos and I happen to think that they
represent current SOTA at any price. I paid $3K for the pair that were
impossible to tell from new. The third amplifier that I think is
outstanding, if sonically tailored, is the Plinius SA-100.

> Those familiar with this group know that I like Hafler amps. However, the
> 9505 is probably not the best match for the VR4. I would recommend the
> Aragon for this speaker.
>
>

I'm somewhat familiar with the VR-4 and what you're describing is its sonic
signature. They are quite easy to drive so I wouldn't worry about the
wattage of the amplifier too much. I think your best bets would be to
experiment with the room and placement. Or even more effective solution
would be a good subwoofer like a Talon Roc. You WILL have more impact and
slam with the Roc.

Cheers,

Margaret

[[email protected]]

On Wed, 25 May 2005 21:30:49 GMT, "Margaret von B."
> wrote:


>The Aragon Palladium monos are excellent if one can find a used pair
>(usually cheap) and they can drive and control just about any speaker. A
>friend of mine in Boston used them to drive his Scintillas if my memory
>serves me and they did not blow up in a decade of service. I recently bought
>a spare pair of Parasound Halo JC-1 monos and I happen to think that they
>represent current SOTA at any price. I paid $3K for the pair that were
>impossible to tell from new. The third amplifier that I think is
>outstanding, if sonically tailored, is the Plinius SA-100.

Thanks......The Halo A21 looks interesting as well.......

I'm also intrigued by the new digital amps, using B&O's ICEpower
technology. The H2O got rave reviews. Also, Acoustic Reality's eAR
products produce some hefty power for the money.....

Too many choices......

[[email protected]]

Robert Morein schrieb:
> > wrote in message
> ...
> > Greetings,
> >
> > Interested in opinions on these three amplifiers, which I am
> > considering to power original Von Schweikert VR-4's......
> >
> > I need to tighten up the bottom end and get more "punch" out of the
> > midbass on these VR-4's.......
> >
> > The Hafler shines on the spec sheet, with a superfast slew rate and
> > incredibly high damping factor, but I don't buy on spec's alone....
> >
> > The Aragon, despite the Bryston's rating of 300/wpc, seems to be the
> > "brute" of the bunch, with a massive, dual power supply and huge
> > filter capacitance. I would imagine the 200/wpc spec is very
> > conservatively rated. The heaviest amplifier of the bunch, if that
> > means anything....
> >
> > The Bryston seems to get rave reviews, but I'm concerned about its
> > reportedly "laid back" presentation. The VR-4's are slightly "dark"
> > to begin with, and I need something to bring them to life.....
> >
> > Any input would be greatly appreciated......
> >
> > Thanks!!
>
> I've heard older Brystons, and been unimpressed. They sound too much like
> QSC sound reinforcement amps -- dull, uninvolving, and lacking detail.
> The Aragon MKII is quite a good amp. The original MKI was a low bias, Class
> AB amp with a grainy sound.
> Those familiar with this group know that I like Hafler amps. However, the
> 9505 is probably not the best match for the VR4. I would recommend the
> Aragon for this speaker.


I am questioning this. Is what you write the real sound of these
amplifiers, or the way they are imagined to sound? What would cause
"lacking detail"? Other than high noise level? Do these sound
differences be less or even go away if you do not know the amplifier
you are listening to?

[Margaret von B.]

> wrote in message
ups.com...
> Robert Morein schrieb:
>> > wrote in message
>> ...
>> > Greetings,
>> >
>> > Interested in opinions on these three amplifiers, which I am
>> > considering to power original Von Schweikert VR-4's......
>> >
>> > I need to tighten up the bottom end and get more "punch" out of the
>> > midbass on these VR-4's.......
>> >
>> > The Hafler shines on the spec sheet, with a superfast slew rate and
>> > incredibly high damping factor, but I don't buy on spec's alone....
>> >
>> > The Aragon, despite the Bryston's rating of 300/wpc, seems to be the
>> > "brute" of the bunch, with a massive, dual power supply and huge
>> > filter capacitance. I would imagine the 200/wpc spec is very
>> > conservatively rated. The heaviest amplifier of the bunch, if that
>> > means anything....
>> >
>> > The Bryston seems to get rave reviews, but I'm concerned about its
>> > reportedly "laid back" presentation. The VR-4's are slightly "dark"
>> > to begin with, and I need something to bring them to life.....
>> >
>> > Any input would be greatly appreciated......
>> >
>> > Thanks!!
>>
>> I've heard older Brystons, and been unimpressed. They sound too much like
>> QSC sound reinforcement amps -- dull, uninvolving, and lacking detail.
>> The Aragon MKII is quite a good amp. The original MKI was a low bias,
>> Class
>> AB amp with a grainy sound.
>> Those familiar with this group know that I like Hafler amps. However, the
>> 9505 is probably not the best match for the VR4. I would recommend the
>> Aragon for this speaker.
>
>
> I am questioning this. Is what you write the real sound of these
> amplifiers, or the way they are imagined to sound? What would cause
> "lacking detail"? Other than high noise level? Do these sound
> differences be less or even go away if you do not know the amplifier
> you are listening to?
>

They be sound different. Difference do be significant. Are you do be speak
england?

Margaret

[[email protected]]

Margaret von B. schrieb:
> > wrote in message
> ups.com...
> > Robert Morein schrieb:
> >> > wrote in message
> >> ...
> >> > Greetings,
> >> >
> >> > Interested in opinions on these three amplifiers, which I am
> >> > considering to power original Von Schweikert VR-4's......
> >> >
> >> > I need to tighten up the bottom end and get more "punch" out of the
> >> > midbass on these VR-4's.......
> >> >
> >> > The Hafler shines on the spec sheet, with a superfast slew rate and
> >> > incredibly high damping factor, but I don't buy on spec's alone....
> >> >
> >> > The Aragon, despite the Bryston's rating of 300/wpc, seems to be the
> >> > "brute" of the bunch, with a massive, dual power supply and huge
> >> > filter capacitance. I would imagine the 200/wpc spec is very
> >> > conservatively rated. The heaviest amplifier of the bunch, if that
> >> > means anything....
> >> >
> >> > The Bryston seems to get rave reviews, but I'm concerned about its
> >> > reportedly "laid back" presentation. The VR-4's are slightly "dark"
> >> > to begin with, and I need something to bring them to life.....
> >> >
> >> > Any input would be greatly appreciated......
> >> >
> >> > Thanks!!
> >>
> >> I've heard older Brystons, and been unimpressed. They sound too much like
> >> QSC sound reinforcement amps -- dull, uninvolving, and lacking detail.
> >> The Aragon MKII is quite a good amp. The original MKI was a low bias,
> >> Class
> >> AB amp with a grainy sound.
> >> Those familiar with this group know that I like Hafler amps. However, the
> >> 9505 is probably not the best match for the VR4. I would recommend the
> >> Aragon for this speaker.
> >
> >
> > I am questioning this. Is what you write the real sound of these
> > amplifiers, or the way they are imagined to sound? What would cause
> > "lacking detail"? Other than high noise level? Do these sound
> > differences be less or even go away if you do not know the amplifier
> > you are listening to?
> >
>
> They be sound different. Difference do be significant. Are you do be speak
> england?
>
> Margaret



I think they sound more the same when less is imagined. Try for
yourself.

England? Do you mean English? My English is not so good. I am trying to
be better with English.

[Margaret von B.]

> wrote in message
oups.com...
> Margaret von B. schrieb:
>> > wrote in message
>> ups.com...
>> > Robert Morein schrieb:
>> >> > wrote in message
>> >> ...
>> >> > Greetings,
>> >> >
>> >> > Interested in opinions on these three amplifiers, which I am
>> >> > considering to power original Von Schweikert VR-4's......
>> >> >
>> >> > I need to tighten up the bottom end and get more "punch" out of the
>> >> > midbass on these VR-4's.......
>> >> >
>> >> > The Hafler shines on the spec sheet, with a superfast slew rate and
>> >> > incredibly high damping factor, but I don't buy on spec's alone....
>> >> >
>> >> > The Aragon, despite the Bryston's rating of 300/wpc, seems to be the
>> >> > "brute" of the bunch, with a massive, dual power supply and huge
>> >> > filter capacitance. I would imagine the 200/wpc spec is very
>> >> > conservatively rated. The heaviest amplifier of the bunch, if that
>> >> > means anything....
>> >> >
>> >> > The Bryston seems to get rave reviews, but I'm concerned about its
>> >> > reportedly "laid back" presentation. The VR-4's are slightly "dark"
>> >> > to begin with, and I need something to bring them to life.....
>> >> >
>> >> > Any input would be greatly appreciated......
>> >> >
>> >> > Thanks!!
>> >>
>> >> I've heard older Brystons, and been unimpressed. They sound too much
>> >> like
>> >> QSC sound reinforcement amps -- dull, uninvolving, and lacking detail.
>> >> The Aragon MKII is quite a good amp. The original MKI was a low bias,
>> >> Class
>> >> AB amp with a grainy sound.
>> >> Those familiar with this group know that I like Hafler amps. However,
>> >> the
>> >> 9505 is probably not the best match for the VR4. I would recommend
>> >> the
>> >> Aragon for this speaker.
>> >
>> >
>> > I am questioning this. Is what you write the real sound of these
>> > amplifiers, or the way they are imagined to sound? What would cause
>> > "lacking detail"? Other than high noise level? Do these sound
>> > differences be less or even go away if you do not know the amplifier
>> > you are listening to?
>> >
>>
>> They be sound different. Difference do be significant. Are you do be
>> speak
>> england?
>>
>> Margaret
>
>
>
> I think they sound more the same when less is imagined. Try for
> yourself.
>
> England? Do you mean English? My English is not so good. I am trying to
> be better with English.
>

I deal with non-native speakers of english all the time and am very familiar
with their grammatical errors. No problems there, ever. Your english just
happens to be mangled up on purpose. Just like the english of another phony
poster on this board. Nice try but no cigar.

Margaret

[[email protected]]

Margaret von B. schrieb:
> > wrote in message
> oups.com...
> > Margaret von B. schrieb:
> >> > wrote in message
> >> ups.com...
> >> > Robert Morein schrieb:
> >> >> > wrote in message
> >> >> ...
> >> >> > Greetings,
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Interested in opinions on these three amplifiers, which I am
> >> >> > considering to power original Von Schweikert VR-4's......
> >> >> >
> >> >> > I need to tighten up the bottom end and get more "punch" out of the
> >> >> > midbass on these VR-4's.......
> >> >> >
> >> >> > The Hafler shines on the spec sheet, with a superfast slew rate and
> >> >> > incredibly high damping factor, but I don't buy on spec's alone....
> >> >> >
> >> >> > The Aragon, despite the Bryston's rating of 300/wpc, seems to be the
> >> >> > "brute" of the bunch, with a massive, dual power supply and huge
> >> >> > filter capacitance. I would imagine the 200/wpc spec is very
> >> >> > conservatively rated. The heaviest amplifier of the bunch, if that
> >> >> > means anything....
> >> >> >
> >> >> > The Bryston seems to get rave reviews, but I'm concerned about its
> >> >> > reportedly "laid back" presentation. The VR-4's are slightly "dark"
> >> >> > to begin with, and I need something to bring them to life.....
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Any input would be greatly appreciated......
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Thanks!!
> >> >>
> >> >> I've heard older Brystons, and been unimpressed. They sound too much
> >> >> like
> >> >> QSC sound reinforcement amps -- dull, uninvolving, and lacking detail.
> >> >> The Aragon MKII is quite a good amp. The original MKI was a low bias,
> >> >> Class
> >> >> AB amp with a grainy sound.
> >> >> Those familiar with this group know that I like Hafler amps. However,
> >> >> the
> >> >> 9505 is probably not the best match for the VR4. I would recommend
> >> >> the
> >> >> Aragon for this speaker.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > I am questioning this. Is what you write the real sound of these
> >> > amplifiers, or the way they are imagined to sound? What would cause
> >> > "lacking detail"? Other than high noise level? Do these sound
> >> > differences be less or even go away if you do not know the amplifier
> >> > you are listening to?
> >> >
> >>
> >> They be sound different. Difference do be significant. Are you do be
> >> speak
> >> england?
> >>
> >> Margaret
> >
> >
> >
> > I think they sound more the same when less is imagined. Try for
> > yourself.
> >
> > England? Do you mean English? My English is not so good. I am trying to
> > be better with English.
> >
>
> I deal with non-native speakers of english all the time and am very familiar
> with their grammatical errors. No problems there, ever. Your english just
> happens to be mangled up on purpose. Just like the english of another phony
> poster on this board. Nice try but no cigar.
>
> Margaret


And what would you do with the cigar, Margaret? Massage the clitoris?
You don't have a clitoris, yes?

**** off.

[Margaret von B.]

> wrote in message
ups.com...
> Margaret von B. schrieb:
>> > wrote in message
>> oups.com...
>> > Margaret von B. schrieb:
>> >> > wrote in message
>> >> ups.com...
>> >> > Robert Morein schrieb:
>> >> >> > wrote in message
>> >> >> ...
>> >> >> > Greetings,
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > Interested in opinions on these three amplifiers, which I am
>> >> >> > considering to power original Von Schweikert VR-4's......
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > I need to tighten up the bottom end and get more "punch" out of
>> >> >> > the
>> >> >> > midbass on these VR-4's.......
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > The Hafler shines on the spec sheet, with a superfast slew rate
>> >> >> > and
>> >> >> > incredibly high damping factor, but I don't buy on spec's
>> >> >> > alone....
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > The Aragon, despite the Bryston's rating of 300/wpc, seems to be
>> >> >> > the
>> >> >> > "brute" of the bunch, with a massive, dual power supply and huge
>> >> >> > filter capacitance. I would imagine the 200/wpc spec is very
>> >> >> > conservatively rated. The heaviest amplifier of the bunch, if
>> >> >> > that
>> >> >> > means anything....
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > The Bryston seems to get rave reviews, but I'm concerned about
>> >> >> > its
>> >> >> > reportedly "laid back" presentation. The VR-4's are slightly
>> >> >> > "dark"
>> >> >> > to begin with, and I need something to bring them to life.....
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > Any input would be greatly appreciated......
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > Thanks!!
>> >> >>
>> >> >> I've heard older Brystons, and been unimpressed. They sound too
>> >> >> much
>> >> >> like
>> >> >> QSC sound reinforcement amps -- dull, uninvolving, and lacking
>> >> >> detail.
>> >> >> The Aragon MKII is quite a good amp. The original MKI was a low
>> >> >> bias,
>> >> >> Class
>> >> >> AB amp with a grainy sound.
>> >> >> Those familiar with this group know that I like Hafler amps.
>> >> >> However,
>> >> >> the
>> >> >> 9505 is probably not the best match for the VR4. I would recommend
>> >> >> the
>> >> >> Aragon for this speaker.
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > I am questioning this. Is what you write the real sound of these
>> >> > amplifiers, or the way they are imagined to sound? What would cause
>> >> > "lacking detail"? Other than high noise level? Do these sound
>> >> > differences be less or even go away if you do not know the amplifier
>> >> > you are listening to?
>> >> >
>> >>
>> >> They be sound different. Difference do be significant. Are you do be
>> >> speak
>> >> england?
>> >>
>> >> Margaret
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > I think they sound more the same when less is imagined. Try for
>> > yourself.
>> >
>> > England? Do you mean English? My English is not so good. I am trying to
>> > be better with English.
>> >
>>
>> I deal with non-native speakers of english all the time and am very
>> familiar
>> with their grammatical errors. No problems there, ever. Your english just
>> happens to be mangled up on purpose. Just like the english of another
>> phony
>> poster on this board. Nice try but no cigar.
>>
>> Margaret
>
>
> And what would you do with the cigar, Margaret? Massage the clitoris?
> You don't have a clitoris, yes?
>
> **** off.
>

Thanks for the confirmation , o' stealthy one! LOL!

Margaret

[JC Martin]

wrote:
> On Wed, 25 May 2005 21:30:49 GMT, "Margaret von B."
> > wrote:
>
>
>
>>The Aragon Palladium monos are excellent if one can find a used pair
>>(usually cheap) and they can drive and control just about any speaker. A
>>friend of mine in Boston used them to drive his Scintillas if my memory
>>serves me and they did not blow up in a decade of service. I recently bought
>>a spare pair of Parasound Halo JC-1 monos and I happen to think that they
>>represent current SOTA at any price. I paid $3K for the pair that were
>>impossible to tell from new. The third amplifier that I think is
>>outstanding, if sonically tailored, is the Plinius SA-100.
>
>
> Thanks......The Halo A21 looks interesting as well.......
>
> I'm also intrigued by the new digital amps, using B&O's ICEpower
> technology. The H2O got rave reviews. Also, Acoustic Reality's eAR
> products produce some hefty power for the money.....
>
> Too many choices......


Don't forget the Odyssey Mono Extremes...300Wx2.

-JC

[Surf]

> jumps out of the closet:
>
> And what would you do with the cigar, Margaret? Massage the clitoris?
> You don't have a clitoris, yes?
>
> **** off.
>