The Great Audio Swindle or...

[Lionel]

"HE2005: The Great Debate".

It is clear now that this public debate organized by John
Atkinson was a complete flop. John Atkinson has failed, his
invitation was a gamble, he played, he lost. His fault ?
IMHO hubris only !...

Do you know why the debate was a non-event (so a complete
failure) ? Because its only goal was to make *publicly* an
ass of Arnold Krueger. Explanation...


1. According to George M. Middius and RAO morons, JA was 95%
sure that Arnold Krueger will refuse his invitation. First
deal, first fall.

2. He was sure that he will be able to destabilize Arnold
Krueger during the debate.
Second deal, second fall.

3. Now, with the only help of George M. Middius, he is
engaged in a pitiful provocating tie-break trying to save
the debris of his shipwreck.
He isn't acting like the journalist he pretends to be but
more like a paparazzi. His last petty attempt : a menace to
broadcast publicly a recording of Mr. Krueger's voice. Note
that this proposal was a total treason to "The Devil's" wish
(see Mr DeWaal and Mr Weil's express warnings).

The RAO careful reader will now understand that John
Atkinson is playing his last trump, the "all or nothing"...
Personally I would not be surprised that he secretly tries
to be publicly insulted in order to get *the* good reason to
engaged a law suit against Arnold Krueger...

[Lionel]

Lionel a écrit :


> "a menace to broadcast publicly a recording of Mr. Krueger's
voice."

Should read : "an illegal recording of..."

[[email protected]]

Lionel wrote:
> "HE2005: The Great Debate".
>
> It is clear now that this public debate organized by John
> Atkinson was a complete flop. John Atkinson has failed, his
> invitation was a gamble, he played, he lost. His fault ?
> IMHO hubris only !...
>
> Do you know why the debate was a non-event (so a complete
> failure) ? Because its only goal was to make *publicly* an
> ass of Arnold Krueger. Explanation...
>
>
> 1. According to George M. Middius and RAO morons, JA was 95%
> sure that Arnold Krueger will refuse his invitation. First
> deal, first fall.
>
>
Such is the arrogance of John Atkinson; he truly believed Arny would be
"afraid" to face him. Guess again, sleazeball! ;-)
>
>
> 2. He was sure that he will be able to destabilize Arnold
> Krueger during the debate.
>
>
Again, such is the arrogance of John Atkinson. BTW, how's "the Rug",
John? Is it at least real hair, or just the Dynel it appears to be?

> Second deal, second fall.
>
> 3. Now, with the only help of George M. Middius, he is
> engaged in a pitiful provocating tie-break trying to save
> the debris of his shipwreck.
> He isn't acting like the journalist he pretends to be
>
>
"the journalist he pretends to be" is an understatement. He's just an
opportunistic sleazeball who has carved out a little fiefdom in the
kingdom of the (intellectually) blind. I doubt he believes a small
fraction of the BS he spews.
>
>
> but more like a paparazzi.
>
>
More like a small time putz, IMO.
>
>
> His last petty attempt : a menace to
> broadcast publicly a recording of Mr. Krueger's voice. Note
> that this proposal was a total treason to "The Devil's" wish
> (see Mr DeWaal and Mr Weil's express warnings).
>
>
Once again, John Atkinson of Stereophile is just a small time putz.
>
> The RAO careful reader will now understand that John
> Atkinson is playing his last trump, the "all or nothing"...
> Personally I would not be surprised that he secretly tries
> to be publicly insulted in order to get *the* good reason to
> engaged a law suit against Arnold Krueger...
>
>
Even more of a jerkoff than Wheeler??? ;-)

[Lionel]

a écrit :

> "the journalist he pretends to be" is an understatement. He's just an
> opportunistic sleazeball who has carved out a little fiefdom in the
> kingdom of the (intellectually) blind. I doubt he believes a small
> fraction of the BS he spews.

John Atkinson is surely a mediocre scientist but a real
business man... The kind of guy not really talented for the
research but with a good quill to write the reports.

Note that he had the intelligence to understand that he
would earn more money in preaching for convinced persons
than in working hard for hypothetic results.

An other real American success story with the US
naturalization as happy end.

[Clyde Slick]

"Lionel" > wrote in message
...

>
> The RAO careful reader will now understand that John Atkinson is playing
> his last trump, the "all or nothing"...
> Personally I would not be surprised that he secretly tries to be publicly
> insulted in order to get *the* good reason to engaged a law suit against
> Arnold Krueger...

Arny isn't exactly Mr. Deep Pockets.

if irony and a lawsuit would award JA proprietorship of
www.pcabx.com!



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[Lionel]

Clyde Slick a écrit :

> Arny isn't exactly Mr. Deep Pockets.

Yes, we have observed that you aren't Mr. Deep Thoughts.

[[email protected]]

Lionel wrote:
> Clyde Slick a =E9crit :
>
> > Arny isn't exactly Mr. Deep Pockets.
>
> Yes, we have observed that you aren't Mr. Deep Thoughts.
>
>
!!LOL!!

[Arny Krueger]

Clyde Slick wrote:
> "Lionel" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>>
>> The RAO careful reader will now understand that John
Atkinson is
>> playing his last trump, the "all or nothing"...
>> Personally I would not be surprised that he secretly
tries to be
>> publicly insulted in order to get *the* good reason to
engaged a law
>> suit against Arnold Krueger...

> Arny isn't exactly Mr. Deep Pockets.

I probably spent more on audio last year than JA.

> if irony and a lawsuit would award JA proprietorship of
> www.pcabx.com!

There's more where that one came from.

[Clyde Slick]

"Lionel" > wrote in message
...
> Clyde Slick a écrit :
>
>> Arny isn't exactly Mr. Deep Pockets.
>
> Yes, we have observed that you aren't Mr. Deep Thoughts.

Although you are Mr. Deep Sewer.



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[Clyde Slick]

"Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
...
> Clyde Slick wrote:

>
>> Arny isn't exactly Mr. Deep Pockets.
>
> I probably spent more on audio last year than JA.
>

JA earned more on audio than you did last year.



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[Robert Morein]

"Lionel" > wrote in message
...
> "HE2005: The Great Debate".
>
> It is clear now that this public debate organized by John
> Atkinson was a complete flop. John Atkinson has failed, his
> invitation was a gamble, he played, he lost. His fault ?
> IMHO hubris only !...
>
Lionel,
I'm not sure I have ever been informed of your philosophical position.
Do you sympathize with Arny in an absolute way, or as a choice relative to
the attitudes found in Stereophile? Or are you primarily defending Arny from
attacks you feel are unfair?

If you were to take photographs of my systems, you would see much of
what you might find in Arny Krueger's systems; cheap interconnects, cost
efficient components, etc. The reason I am opposed to Krueger is much for
the same reason that the French Terror is regarded with horror; so many
possibilities, as well as some truths, are attacked by Arny's broad assault.
The second reason is that Arny uses unfair tactics, such as making an
interpretation of another person's post, and proclaiming that it is the
other person's statement.

I also disagree with Arny's testing methodology. And yet, we have made
so many choices that are similar.

If our particular outrages were combined, the belief would be that both
Arny and George share the Marxist idea, "The end justifies the means."

[Schizoid Man]

"Arny Krueger" > wrote in message

> Clyde Slick wrote:

>> Arny isn't exactly Mr. Deep Pockets.
>
> I probably spent more on audio last year than JA.

Really? I thought your whole mantra was that you don't need to spend gobs of
money on things like amps, power cables and speaker spikes?

Just out of curiosity, what audio equipment did you purchase?

[George M. Middius]

Clyde Slick said:

> >> Arny isn't exactly Mr. Deep Pockets.

> > I probably spent more on audio last year than JA.

> JA earned more on audio than you did last year.

But Arnii still has the largest collection of obsolete sound cards in North
America.;-)

[George M. Middius]

Schizoid Man said:

> > I probably spent more on audio last year than JA.

> Really? I thought your whole mantra was that you don't need to spend gobs of
> money on things like amps, power cables and speaker spikes?

No no, you misunderstand. When other people spend lots of money, it's
immoral and wasteful and foolish. When Krooger spends lots of money, it's
prudent and manly and very, very smart. ;-)

> Just out of curiosity, what audio equipment did you purchase?

Check ebay for the trail. Turdy has gobbled up another 166 sound cards, 27
amplifiers, 381 microphones, and 96 MP3 players. Quantity over quality --
that's the ticket!

[George M. Middius]

Robert Morein said:

> If our particular outrages were combined, the belief would be that both
> Arny and George share the Marxist idea, "The end justifies the means."

Within the confines demarcated by the dimension of Usenet, I believe Krooger
is absolute evil. Therefore, I feel justified in counterattacking on behalf
of everybody, still within the same borders.

[Robert Morein]

"George M. Middius" > wrote in message
...
>
>
> Robert Morein said:
>
> > If our particular outrages were combined, the belief would be that
both
> > Arny and George share the Marxist idea, "The end justifies the means."
>
> Within the confines demarcated by the dimension of Usenet, I believe
Krooger
> is absolute evil. Therefore, I feel justified in counterattacking on
behalf
> of everybody, still within the same borders.
>
I understand, though I prefer to paint McCarty with a far darker shade of
black.

[[email protected]]

The nutball posting as "George M. Middius" wrote:
> Robert Morein said:
>
> > If our particular outrages were combined, the belief would be
that both
> > Arny and George share the Marxist idea, "The end justifies the
means."
>
> Within the confines demarcated by the dimension of Usenet, I believe
Krooger
> is absolute evil. Therefore, I feel justified in counterattacking on
behalf
> of everybody, still within the same borders.
>
>
You stay "within the borders" by encouraging *others* to make and
distribute recordings of private telephone conversations, initiate
bogus lawsuits and file false police reports. You're a real piece of
****, "George". No wonder you and Atkinson get along.

[George M. Middius]

Robert Morein said:

> > Within the confines demarcated by the dimension of Usenet, I believe Krooger
> > is absolute evil. Therefore, I feel justified in counterattacking on behalf
> > of everybody, still within the same borders.

> I understand, though I prefer to paint McCarty with a far darker shade of
> black.

Yes, I agree. But Bwian doesn't confine his nefarious activities to Usenet.
Krooger is all bark and loT"s of feces, but Bwian is an explosive latrine.
Or something.

BTW, when are you going to fix your newsreader?






This post reformatted by the Resistance,
laboring tirelessly to de-Kroogerize Usenet.

[[email protected]]

wrote:
> The nutball posting as "George M. Middius" wrote:
> > Robert Morein said:
> >
> > > If our particular outrages were combined, the belief would be
> that both
> > > Arny and George share the Marxist idea, "The end justifies the
> means."
> >
> > Within the confines demarcated by the dimension of Usenet, I
believe
> Krooger
> > is absolute evil. Therefore, I feel justified in counterattacking
on
> behalf
> > of everybody, still within the same borders.
> >
> >
> You stay "within the borders" by encouraging *others* to make and
> distribute recordings of private telephone conversations, initiate
> bogus lawsuits and file false police reports. You're a real piece of
> ****, "George". No wonder you and Atkinson get along.

You are truly an idiot. No wonder you can't make it on your own. Did
you get beat up a lot at school?




Scott Wheeler

[Clyde Slick]

> wrote in message
oups.com...
>
> wrote:
>> The nutball posting as "George M. Middius" wrote:
>> > Robert Morein said:
>> >
>> > > If our particular outrages were combined, the belief would be
>> that both
>> > > Arny and George share the Marxist idea, "The end justifies the
>> means."
>> >
>> > Within the confines demarcated by the dimension of Usenet, I
> believe
>> Krooger
>> > is absolute evil. Therefore, I feel justified in counterattacking
> on
>> behalf
>> > of everybody, still within the same borders.
>> >
>> >
>> You stay "within the borders" by encouraging *others* to make and
>> distribute recordings of private telephone conversations, initiate
>> bogus lawsuits and file false police reports. You're a real piece of
>> ****, "George". No wonder you and Atkinson get along.
>
> You are truly an idiot. No wonder you can't make it on your own. Did
> you get beat up a lot at school?
>
what school?



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[George M. Middius]

Little **** said:

> > Within the confines demarcated by the dimension of Usenet, I believe Krooger
> > is absolute evil. Therefore, I feel justified in counterattacking on behalf
> > of everybody, still within the same borders.

> You stay "within the borders" by encouraging *others* to make and
> distribute recordings of private telephone conversations

Oopsie! You're lying again. That doesn't surprise me, of course, since you
freely admit you admire Arnii Kroofeces, Master of the Lying Trade. ;-)

I'm sorry you're too stupid to configure your newsreader properly. You can
take consolation in the fact that many others are just as clueless as you
are. (That's not news to you, right?)

Now let's talk about you. Who are you? ;-) How many bicycles have you
"fixed" this month? Did the scam you tried on Winkis succeed on any other
victims? How long before the warrants against you in Massachusetts expire?
Did you have murder your parents to get their house, or did you just
threaten them into quiescence? If you had a job and a decent income, would
you buy a bunch of guns, or just stick to drugs?







This post reformatted by the Resistance,
laboring tirelessly to de-Kroogerize Usenet.

[[email protected]]

The nutball posting as "George M. Middius" proves Lionel is right:
> Little **** said:
>
"George" is so cute!
>
>
> > > Within the confines demarcated by the dimension of Usenet, I
believe Krooger
> > > is absolute evil. Therefore, I feel justified in counterattacking
on behalf
> > > of everybody, still within the same borders.
>
>> You stay "within the borders" by encouraging *others* to make and
>> distribute recordings of private telephone conversations, initiate
bogus >>lawsuits and file false police reports. You're a real piece of
****, "George". >>No wonder you and Atkinson get along.
>
> Oopsie! You're lying again.
>
>
About what, "George"? Recordings of private telephone conversations?
Bogus lawsuits? False police reports? That you are a piece of ****?
That you get along with Atkinson?
>
>
> That doesn't surprise me, of course, since you
> freely admit you admire Arnii Kroofeces, Master of the Lying Trade.
;-)
>
>
And you idolize a lying limey sleazeball. You lose.
>
>
> I'm sorry you're too stupid to configure your newsreader properly.
You can
> take consolation in the fact that many others are just as clueless as
you
> are. (That's not news to you, right?)
>
>
Properly configured newsreaders are ***SO IMPORTANT*** what am I to do?
:-o
>
>
> Now let's talk about you. Who are you? ;-) How many bicycles have you
> "fixed" this month? Did the scam you tried on Winkis succeed on any
other
> victims? How long before the warrants against you in Massachusetts
expire?
> Did you have murder your parents to get their house, or did you just
> threaten them into quiescence? If you had a job and a decent income,
would
> you buy a bunch of guns, or just stick to drugs?
>
>
Score!!!!








PS- are you off the meds again?

[Joseph Oberlander]

wrote:

> "the journalist he pretends to be" is an understatement. He's just an
> opportunistic sleazeball who has carved out a little fiefdom in the
> kingdom of the (intellectually) blind. I doubt he believes a small
> fraction of the BS he spews.

The sad truth is that he now does believe, being surrounded
by simmilar people for years. Watch him respond to this
by touting what an expert he is.

[Robert Morein]

"George M. Middius" > wrote in message
...
>
>
> Robert Morein said:
>
>> > Within the confines demarcated by the dimension of Usenet, I believe
>> > Krooger
>> > is absolute evil. Therefore, I feel justified in counterattacking on
>> > behalf
>> > of everybody, still within the same borders.
>
>> I understand, though I prefer to paint McCarty with a far darker shade of
>> black.
>
> Yes, I agree. But Bwian doesn't confine his nefarious activities to
> Usenet.
> Krooger is all bark and loT"s of feces, but Bwian is an explosive latrine.
> Or something.
>
> BTW, when are you going to fix your newsreader?
>
What's wrong with it?

[Arny Krueger]

Schizoid Man wrote:
> "Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
>
>> Clyde Slick wrote:
>
>>> Arny isn't exactly Mr. Deep Pockets.
>>
>> I probably spent more on audio last year than JA.
>
> Really? I thought your whole mantra was that you don't
need to spend
> gobs of money on things like amps, power cables and
speaker spikes?

Silly me, I blew so much of it on microphones.

> Just out of curiosity, what audio equipment did you
purchase?

A few power amps, some equalizers, one or two audio
interfaces, and about 30 microphones, mic preamps, cables
stands and the like.

[[email protected]]

Joseph Oberlander wrote:
> wrote:
>
> > "the journalist he pretends to be" is an understatement. He's just
an
> > opportunistic sleazeball who has carved out a little fiefdom in the
> > kingdom of the (intellectually) blind. I doubt he believes a small
> > fraction of the BS he spews.
>
> The sad truth is that he now does believe, being surrounded
> by simmilar people for years. Watch him respond to this
> by touting what an expert he is.
>
>
I do wonder if, after all these years, ha actually believes that "blind
amplifier testing led me astray" story he belched out at the "Great
Debate". It seems so contrived, IMO, but maybe he does believe it.

[[email protected]]

Lionel wrote:
> "HE2005: The Great Debate".
>
> It is clear now that this public debate organized by John
> Atkinson was a complete flop. John Atkinson has failed, his
> invitation was a gamble, he played, he lost.
>
>
Two weeks after the "Great Debate", it is clearly John Atkinson's
credibility that has taken the hit. As you say, "he played, he lost".

[Lionel]

Robert Morein a écrit :
> "Lionel" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>>"HE2005: The Great Debate".
>>
>>It is clear now that this public debate organized by John
>>Atkinson was a complete flop. John Atkinson has failed, his
>>invitation was a gamble, he played, he lost. His fault ?
>>IMHO hubris only !...
>>
>
> Lionel,
> I'm not sure I have ever been informed of your philosophical position.
> Do you sympathize with Arny in an absolute way, or as a choice relative to
> the attitudes found in Stereophile? Or are you primarily defending Arny from
> attacks you feel are unfair?

1. IMO it is not possible to sympathize with Arnold Krueger
in an absolute way.

2. I am really astonished by the weak critical potential of
high-end audio magazines in general. Can you imagine such
"onctuous" critics in literature, music, movie... ?
Guys like John Atkinson doesn't participate to any real
improvement they are just trying to keep up a very
profitable business.
They aren't innovators just petty *pensioners*.

3. On RAO everyone have the supporters he deserves.
Middius supports Atkinson and I am "supporting" Krueger...
....I have never insulted John Atkinson. ;-)


> If you were to take photographs of my systems, you would see much of
> what you might find in Arny Krueger's systems; cheap interconnects, cost
> efficient components, etc. The reason I am opposed to Krueger is much for
> the same reason that the French Terror is regarded with horror; so many
> possibilities, as well as some truths, are attacked by Arny's broad assault.

100% agree with you this is unacceptable behaviour.

> The second reason is that Arny uses unfair tactics, such as making an
> interpretation of another person's post, and proclaiming that it is the
> other person's statement.

100% agree with you this is unacceptable behaviour.

> I also disagree with Arny's testing methodology. And yet, we have made
> so many choices that are similar.

Seems to me that Krueger's system has some potential.
Perhaps it has some serious technical flaws (statisticals,
recording...) but I'm sure that it can be improved to be an
other instrument in the panoply of audio reviewer, nothing
more than an *instrument* among other instruments.


> If our particular outrages were combined, the belief would be that both
> Arny and George share the Marxist idea, "The end justifies the means."

Except you, Sander and one or two occasional posters, there
isn't any technical opposition to Krueger's views.

Most of the RAO remaining regulars are guys fascinated by
Arnold Krueger. He exerts on them an attraction, a pervet
interest which make them look very stupid. Watch Weil's
pathetic efforts to get a little attention from Arnold,
don't tell me that this guy is "normal", and no need to
speak about Middius' real obsession...

[Surf]

dick "internet bicycle repairman" Malesweski wrote
>>
> Two weeks after the "Great Debate", it is clearly John Atkinson's
> credibility that has taken the hit. As you say, "he played, he lost".
>

Yes - the credibility hit he has taken with you four idiots
is keeping him up at night. The rest of us can see that John
behaves like a gentleman and Arny behaves like a cowardly
nerd. Some have issues with John's position on methods
and conclusions, but retain respect for the man. Only you
four idiots actually have any respect or pretend to have
respect for Arny. Oh - and I guess Brian McCarty is in
your circle jerk as well.

[Arny Krueger]

Surf wrote:

> dick "internet bicycle repairman" Malesweski wrote

>> Two weeks after the "Great Debate", it is clearly John
Atkinson's
>> credibility that has taken the hit. As you say, "he
played, he lost".

> Yes - the credibility hit he has taken with you four
idiots
> is keeping him up at night.

Tom, apparently you're trying to explain Atkinson's
bedraggled appearance at the debate. He had some kind of
premonition that this was going to happen.

>The rest of us can see that John
> behaves like a gentleman and Arny behaves like a cowardly
> nerd.

Really? You can say that even after the release of the
recording of the debate, which finishes up with Atkinson's
slightly quivering voice relievedly unilaterally calling an
end to the debate at the earliest possible opportunity?

> Some have issues with John's position on methods
> and conclusions, but retain respect for the man.

Why should John get any more respect than I?

> Only you four idiots actually have any respect or pretend
to have
> respect for Arny.

Good thing they apparently don't let you log onto
rec.audio.pro, Tom.

Perhaps you should google this thread:

http://groups-beta.google.com/group/rec.audio.pro/browse_thread/thread/b100f2cf30af1dbb/142cbb3d3ebbfa1a?q=group:rec.audio.pro+insubject:a rny&rnum=1&hl=en#142cbb3d3ebbfa1a

[dave weil]

On Sat, 14 May 2005 17:50:43 +0200, Lionel >
wrote:

> Watch Weil's
>pathetic efforts to get a little attention from Arnold,

Since I respond to far less than 1% of his posts, your observation is
completely wrongheaded.

Since you respond to almost 100% of my posts, what does this say about
*your* efforts? Would pathetic qualify?

[Lionel]

Silver Surfer tortured by an other existential crisis wrote :

> dick "internet bicycle repairman" Malesweski wrote
>
>>Two weeks after the "Great Debate", it is clearly John Atkinson's
>>credibility that has taken the hit. As you say, "he played, he lost".
>>
>
>
> Yes - the credibility hit he has taken with you four idiots
> is keeping him up at night. The rest of us can see that John
> behaves like a gentleman and Arny behaves like a cowardly
> nerd. Some have issues with John's position on methods
> and conclusions, but retain respect for the man. Only you
> four idiots actually have any respect or pretend to have
> respect for Arny. Oh - and I guess Brian McCarty is in
> your circle jerk as well.

Tell me Surf where I have shown lack of respect for John
Atkinson ?
I just note that I've never seen any Gentleman acting like a
paparazzi, Atkinson threat is a reality not like my alleged
lack of respect...
When, months ago, he invited Krueger I have been the *first*
to write that he was acting like a *gentleman* while the
usual idiots (Middius, Sackman, Weil...) were writing that
he was inviting Arnold to "destroy" him (which was IMHO
insulting for JA).

JA post-debate behaviour really astonished me !!! The above
is just an attempt an exercize to explain this post-debate
behaviour. That's all.

[Lionel]

dave weil a écrit :
> On Sat, 14 May 2005 17:50:43 +0200, Lionel >
> wrote:
>
>
>>Watch Weil's
>>pathetic efforts to get a little attention from Arnold,
>
>
> Since I respond to far less than 1% of his posts, your observation is
> completely wrongheaded.
>
> Since you respond to almost 100% of my posts, what does this say about
> *your* efforts? Would pathetic qualify?

He, he ! ;-)

[Clyde Slick]

"Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
...
> Surf wrote:
>
>> Only you four idiots actually have any respect or pretend
> to have
>> respect for Arny.
>
> Good thing they apparently don't let you log onto
> rec.audio.pro, Tom.
>
> Perhaps you should google this thread:
>
> http://groups-beta.google.com/group/rec.audio.pro/browse_thread/thread/b100f2cf30af1dbb/142cbb3d3ebbfa1a?q=group:rec.audio.pro+insubject:a rny&rnum=1&hl=en#142cbb3d3ebbfa1a
>
>

Arny, we are talking about the lack of respect for you as a decent human
being,
we are not talking about respect for you as a technician.
Of course, the respect you might get as a human being is certiainly of no
importance to you,all that matters
is that we all celebrate your geekhood.




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[George M. Middius]

dave weil said to Lionella:

> Since you respond to almost 100% of my posts, what does this say about
> *your* efforts? Would pathetic qualify?

A good 'bot is nothing if not persistent. Whoever programmed Slut to keep
barking at you can at least take solace in that.

[dave weil]

On Sat, 14 May 2005 18:20:39 +0200, Lionel >
wrote:

>When, months ago, he invited Krueger I have been the *first*
>to write that he was acting like a *gentleman* while the
>usual idiots (Middius, Sackman, Weil...) were writing that
>he was inviting Arnold to "destroy" him (which was IMHO
>insulting for JA).

I never said any such thing.

[Surf]

"Arny Krueger" > wrote
....
> Surf wrote:
>
>> dick "internet bicycle repairman" Malesweski wrote
>
>>> Two weeks after the "Great Debate", it is clearly John
> Atkinson's
>>> credibility that has taken the hit. As you say, "he
> played, he lost".
>
>> Yes - the credibility hit he has taken with you four
> idiots
>> is keeping him up at night.
>
> Tom, apparently you're trying to explain Atkinson's
> bedraggled appearance at the debate. He had some kind of
> premonition that this was going to happen.

On the other hand, you looked fabulous in your polyester
suit and that very stylish 80's vintage shirt.
Good thing it wasn't windy!

>
>>The rest of us can see that John behaves like a
>>gentleman and Arny behaves like a cowardly
>> nerd.
>
> Really? You can say that even after the release of the
> recording of the debate, which finishes up with Atkinson's
> slightly quivering voice relievedly unilaterally calling an
> end to the debate at the earliest possible opportunity?

No - I didn't hear that. The only quivering voice I heard
was yours, and the debate went the full hour. And what
does that have to do with my comment regarding your
behavior?

>> Some have issues with John's position on methods
>> and conclusions, but retain respect for the man.

> Why should John get any more respect than I?

He's probably demonstrated more restraint and
maturity than anyone else here and his behavior here
is very consistent with his behavior at the debate.
Your performance at the debate demonstrated some
of the same qualities. Your responses were logical
and consistent. Good job.
It's your behavior here that is inconsistent with
your behavior at the debate. If you behaved here
like you did at the debate, few would have issue
with you. It's here that you act like an adolescent
geek. It's here that you say things you didn't
have the balls to say to his face.

[George M. Middius]

Clyde Slick said:

> >> Only you four idiots actually have any respect or pretend to have
> >> respect for Arny.

> > Perhaps you should google this thread:
> > http://groups-beta.google.com/group/rec.audio.pro/browse_thread/thread/b100f2cf30af1dbb/142cbb3d3ebbfa1a?q=group:rec.audio.pro+insubject:a rny&rnum=1&hl=en#142cbb3d3ebbfa1a

> Arny, we are talking about the lack of respect for you as a decent human
> being, we are not talking about respect for you as a technician.
> Of course, the respect you might get as a human being is certiainly of no
> importance to you,all that matters
> is that we all celebrate your geekhood.

Just to put the ravings of the lunatic "Ethan Winer" in perspective, here's
how he introduced the thread:

"Arny is well known for his support for the scientific method to
test what is audible and what is not. John is known for, um, - well, let's
just call it an anti-science bias."

Here we see the word "science" used to justify the class envy that forms the
basis for Krooger's wacky religion. In reality, as JA has pointed out,
Krooger and his kronies are true believers in scientism. As defined by
Merriam-Webster, scientism is:

an exaggerated trust in the efficacy of the methods of natural science
applied to all areas of investigation (as in philosophy, the social
sciences, and the humanities)

Or, as an erstwhile RAOer put it, if the only tool you have is a hammer,
every problem looks like a nail.

[George M. Middius]

dave weil said:

> >When, months ago, he invited Krueger I have been the *first*
> >to write that he was acting like a *gentleman* while the
> >usual idiots (Middius, Sackman, Weil...) were writing that
> >he was inviting Arnold to "destroy" him (which was IMHO
> >insulting for JA).
>
> I never said any such thing.

Nor did I.

Sluttie is not known for her proficiency in reading comprehension.

[jclause]

>Or, as an erstwhile RAOer put it, if the only tool you have is a hammer,
>every problem looks like a nail.



Well a nine pound hammer
Is a little too heavy
Buddy for my size
Yeah' for my size

Hammingaway

[Lionel]

dave weil a écrit :
> On Sat, 14 May 2005 18:20:39 +0200, Lionel >
> wrote:
>
>
>>When, months ago, he invited Krueger I have been the *first*
>>to write that he was acting like a *gentleman* while the
>>usual idiots (Middius, Sackman, Weil...) were writing that
>>he was inviting Arnold to "destroy" him (which was IMHO
>>insulting for JA).
>
>
> I never said any such thing.

You are an idiot.

[Clyde Slick]

"Lionel" > wrote in message
...

> When, months ago, he invited Krueger I have been the *first* to write that
> he was acting like a *gentleman* while the usual idiots (Middius, Sackman,
> Weil...) were writing that he was inviting Arnold to "destroy" him (which
> was IMHO insulting for JA).
>

Show me where I said that, please.



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[Lionel_Chapuis]

George M. Middius wrote:

>
>
> dave weil said to Lionella:
>
> > Since you respond to almost 100% of my posts, what does this say about
> > *your* efforts? Would pathetic qualify?
>
> A good 'bot is nothing if not persistent. Whoever programmed Slut to keep
> barking at you can at least take solace in that.

The funny thing is that I only respond to Dave Weil's troll messages directed to Arnold Krueger.
I agree when Dave says that I respond to almost 100% of his posts... So this means that almost 100% of his RAO posts are trolls directed to Arnold Krueger.
If you don't call that an obsession... ;-)




----------
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[Lionel_Chapuis]

George M. Middius wrote:

>
>
> dav




----------
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[Lionel_Chapuis]

George M. Middius wrote:

>
>
> dav




----------
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[Lionel]

Clyde Slick a écrit :
> "Lionel" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>
>>When, months ago, he invited Krueger I have been the *first* to write that
>>he was acting like a *gentleman* while the usual idiots (Middius, Sackman,
>>Weil...) were writing that he was inviting Arnold to "destroy" him (which
>>was IMHO insulting for JA).
>>
>
>
> Show me where I said that, please.

No.

[Robert Morein]

"Lionel" > wrote in message
...
> Robert Morein a écrit :
> > "Lionel" > wrote in message
[snip]
> Most of the RAO remaining regulars are guys fascinated by
> Arnold Krueger. He exerts on them an attraction, a pervet
> interest which make them look very stupid. Watch Weil's
> pathetic efforts to get a little attention from Arnold,
> don't tell me that this guy is "normal", and no need to
> speak about Middius' real obsession...
>
That's because Kruger doesn't give them room to breathe.
It would be one thing if Krueger said, "Your comparisons are inaccurate, you
can do much better with ABX". Even if that is a false statement, it is a
reasonable statement.

But Krueger prefers to issue sweeping proclamations, such as "All properly
operating amplifiers sound the same." This could be interpreted a number of
different ways, since Krueger didn't even bother to define "properly
operating". But Krueger uses it to destroy their universe of choices.

See http://hyperdictionary.com/search.aspx?define=bigot, which has a French
root, bigottire, "to terrify, to appall."

I think that what you're seeing, in terms of unbounded hostility, is a
normal human reaction. What Krueger does is very much analogous to acts of
religious desecration.

As far as you being a supporter, he has a far better one than he deserves
:).

About Atkinson:
I find Atkinson congenial, open-minded, and knowledgeable.
OTOH, I do have a feeling about Stereophile that may be similar to yours.
Stereophile, as a whole, has provided excessive emphasis on the intangibles
of style.
While Arny makes less of this hobby that there really is, Stereophile makes
more.
Paradoxically, the counter to that is Atkinson himself. His lab tests are
the most thorough and accurate that I've seen in an audio magazine. And he
does it consistently; he never lapses. He provides a consistent counter to
his reviewers, whose subjective opinions I mostly discount.

Is Stereophile fair? Does it play favorites? I'm afraid it does, but every
published journal has unwritten rules for access, and Stereophile is no
exception. Since I don't often have a Stereophile Class A piece in my hands
for a protracted period of time, this is hard to pin down. But last year, I
did. It was John Curl's flagship design for Stereophile, the Adcom GFP-750,
a single-ended pure MOSFET design.

The reviewer's opinion was that this was the closest thing to a
straight-wire-with-gain; no audible coloration. The output impedance of this
unit is around 2000 ohms, far higher than found in a lot of cheaper stuff.
When I put this into my system, the effect of the high output impedance was
immediately obvious. There was a bass anomaly. Fifteen feet of cable
connecting it to the power amp was too much for it to handle.

If I recall correctly, Atkinson stated in his technical evaluation that the
2000 ohm output impedance should cause no problem. But this unit has
balanced outputs, making it potentially useful for driving long runs of
cable. It cannot do that.

The GFP-750 remained notably pure even at high drive levels. However,
Atkinson's omission of the problems and cautions associated with a 2K output
impedance was a signficant one.

[Lionel]

Robert Morein a écrit :
> "Lionel" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>>Robert Morein a écrit :
>>
>>>"Lionel" > wrote in message
>
> [snip]
>
>>Most of the RAO remaining regulars are guys fascinated by
>>Arnold Krueger. He exerts on them an attraction, a pervet
>>interest which make them look very stupid. Watch Weil's
>>pathetic efforts to get a little attention from Arnold,
>>don't tell me that this guy is "normal", and no need to
>>speak about Middius' real obsession...
>>
>
> That's because Kruger doesn't give them room to breathe.
> It would be one thing if Krueger said, "Your comparisons are inaccurate, you
> can do much better with ABX". Even if that is a false statement, it is a
> reasonable statement.
>
> But Krueger prefers to issue sweeping proclamations, such as "All properly
> operating amplifiers sound the same." This could be interpreted a number of
> different ways, since Krueger didn't even bother to define "properly
> operating". But Krueger uses it to destroy their universe of choices.

It can also be interpreted as an axiom opening an endless
search for *THE* properly operating amplifier... This is the
philosophy of most of the audio enthusiasts and DIYers.

> See http://hyperdictionary.com/search.aspx?define=bigot, which has a French
> root, bigottire, "to terrify, to appall."
>
> I think that what you're seeing, in terms of unbounded hostility, is a
> normal human reaction. What Krueger does is very much analogous to acts of
> religious desecration.

Sure that Arnold has a kind of paranoid conception of his
hobby, if not he would never have attracted a paranoid
personality like George M. Middius.

> As far as you being a supporter, he has a far better one than he deserves
> :).

:-o

> About Atkinson:
> I find Atkinson congenial, open-minded, and knowledgeable.

Sure he is, but also manipulative and demagogue IMHO.

> OTOH, I do have a feeling about Stereophile that may be similar to yours.
> Stereophile, as a whole, has provided excessive emphasis on the intangibles
> of style.

This remember me Dave Weil's review of Trotsky speakers. 4
or 5 long boring chapters of pompous verbiage to be unable
to say that these speakers are bull**** only. Because these
speakers are BS. It is totally impossible to marry the 2
drivers (the 8" and the ribbon tweeter). All the DIYers who
have tried have abandoned the project : BS results.

> While Arny makes less of this hobby that there really is, Stereophile makes
> more.
> Paradoxically, the counter to that is Atkinson himself. His lab tests are
> the most thorough and accurate that I've seen in an audio magazine. And he
> does it consistently; he never lapses. He provides a consistent counter to
> his reviewers, whose subjective opinions I mostly discount.
>
> Is Stereophile fair? Does it play favorites? I'm afraid it does, but every
> published journal has unwritten rules for access, and Stereophile is no
> exception.



> Since I don't often have a Stereophile Class A piece in my hands
> for a protracted period of time, this is hard to pin down. But last year, I
> did. It was John Curl's flagship design for Stereophile, the Adcom GFP-750,
> a single-ended pure MOSFET design.
>
> The reviewer's opinion was that this was the closest thing to a
> straight-wire-with-gain; no audible coloration. The output impedance of this
> unit is around 2000 ohms, far higher than found in a lot of cheaper stuff.
> When I put this into my system, the effect of the high output impedance was
> immediately obvious. There was a bass anomaly. Fifteen feet of cable
> connecting it to the power amp was too much for it to handle.
>
> If I recall correctly, Atkinson stated in his technical evaluation that the
> 2000 ohm output impedance should cause no problem. But this unit has
> balanced outputs, making it potentially useful for driving long runs of
> cable. It cannot do that.
>
> The GFP-750 remained notably pure even at high drive levels. However,
> Atkinson's omission of the problems and cautions associated with a 2K output
> impedance was a signficant one.

Reviews are full of unprecise and fuzzy opinions like
"should cause no problem". You should have been enough
twisted to understand that it means "be careful". :-)

[Robert Morein]

"Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
...
> Schizoid Man wrote:
> > "Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
> >
> >> Clyde Slick wrote:
> >
> >>> Arny isn't exactly Mr. Deep Pockets.
> >>
> >> I probably spent more on audio last year than JA.
> >
> > Really? I thought your whole mantra was that you don't
> need to spend
> > gobs of money on things like amps, power cables and
> speaker spikes?
>
> Silly me, I blew so much of it on microphones.
>
> > Just out of curiosity, what audio equipment did you
> purchase?
>
> A few power amps, some equalizers, one or two audio
> interfaces, and about 30 microphones, mic preamps, cables
> stands and the like.
>
Arny, telephone taps, guitar amps, and Radio Shack lapel mics do not
qualify.
I like the idea of cable stands. A new tweak?

[Robert Morein]

"Lionel" > wrote in message
...
> Robert Morein a écrit :
> > "Lionel" > wrote in message
> > ...
> >
> >>Robert Morein a écrit :
> >>
> >>>"Lionel" > wrote in message
> >
> > [snip]
> >
> >>Most of the RAO remaining regulars are guys fascinated by
> >>Arnold Krueger. He exerts on them an attraction, a pervet
> >>interest which make them look very stupid. Watch Weil's
> >>pathetic efforts to get a little attention from Arnold,
> >>don't tell me that this guy is "normal", and no need to
> >>speak about Middius' real obsession...
> >>
> >
> > That's because Kruger doesn't give them room to breathe.
> > It would be one thing if Krueger said, "Your comparisons are inaccurate,
you
> > can do much better with ABX". Even if that is a false statement, it is
a
> > reasonable statement.
> >
> > But Krueger prefers to issue sweeping proclamations, such as "All
properly
> > operating amplifiers sound the same." This could be interpreted a number
of
> > different ways, since Krueger didn't even bother to define "properly
> > operating". But Krueger uses it to destroy their universe of choices.
>
> It can also be interpreted as an axiom opening an endless
> search for *THE* properly operating amplifier... This is the
> philosophy of most of the audio enthusiasts and DIYers.
>
> > See http://hyperdictionary.com/search.aspx?define=bigot, which has a
French
> > root, bigottire, "to terrify, to appall."
> >
> > I think that what you're seeing, in terms of unbounded hostility, is a
> > normal human reaction. What Krueger does is very much analogous to acts
of
> > religious desecration.
>
> Sure that Arnold has a kind of paranoid conception of his
> hobby, if not he would never have attracted a paranoid
> personality like George M. Middius.
>
> > As far as you being a supporter, he has a far better one than he
deserves
> > :).
>
> :-o
>
> > About Atkinson:
> > I find Atkinson congenial, open-minded, and knowledgeable.
>
> Sure he is, but also manipulative and demagogue IMHO.
>
> > OTOH, I do have a feeling about Stereophile that may be similar to
yours.
> > Stereophile, as a whole, has provided excessive emphasis on the
intangibles
> > of style.
>
> This remember me Dave Weil's review of Trotsky speakers. 4
> or 5 long boring chapters of pompous verbiage to be unable
> to say that these speakers are bull**** only. Because these
> speakers are BS. It is totally impossible to marry the 2
> drivers (the 8" and the ribbon tweeter). All the DIYers who
> have tried have abandoned the project : BS results.
>
> > While Arny makes less of this hobby that there really is, Stereophile
makes
> > more.
> > Paradoxically, the counter to that is Atkinson himself. His lab tests
are
> > the most thorough and accurate that I've seen in an audio magazine. And
he
> > does it consistently; he never lapses. He provides a consistent counter
to
> > his reviewers, whose subjective opinions I mostly discount.
> >
> > Is Stereophile fair? Does it play favorites? I'm afraid it does, but
every
> > published journal has unwritten rules for access, and Stereophile is no
> > exception.
>
>
>
> > Since I don't often have a Stereophile Class A piece in my hands
> > for a protracted period of time, this is hard to pin down. But last
year, I
> > did. It was John Curl's flagship design for Stereophile, the Adcom
GFP-750,
> > a single-ended pure MOSFET design.
> >
> > The reviewer's opinion was that this was the closest thing to a
> > straight-wire-with-gain; no audible coloration. The output impedance of
this
> > unit is around 2000 ohms, far higher than found in a lot of cheaper
stuff.
> > When I put this into my system, the effect of the high output impedance
was
> > immediately obvious. There was a bass anomaly. Fifteen feet of cable
> > connecting it to the power amp was too much for it to handle.
> >
> > If I recall correctly, Atkinson stated in his technical evaluation that
the
> > 2000 ohm output impedance should cause no problem. But this unit has
> > balanced outputs, making it potentially useful for driving long runs of
> > cable. It cannot do that.
> >
> > The GFP-750 remained notably pure even at high drive levels. However,
> > Atkinson's omission of the problems and cautions associated with a 2K
output
> > impedance was a signficant one.
>
> Reviews are full of unprecise and fuzzy opinions like
> "should cause no problem". You should have been enough
> twisted to understand that it means "be careful". :-)

In France, you have the "wine" phenomena. How do people regard the
pronouncements of the "boquet" of wine, and so forth, when this depend
mainly on how much ethylene glycol has been added ? ;)
It is similar, no? Wine is a combination of tannic acid, aromatic
hydrocarbons, resveratrol, clarification through beef blood, a bunch of
chemicals, and people derive from it a subjective perspective that is
completely different in character.

[Clyde Slick]

"Lionel" > wrote in message
...
> Clyde Slick a écrit :
>> "Lionel" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>
>>
>>>When, months ago, he invited Krueger I have been the *first* to write
>>>that he was acting like a *gentleman* while the usual idiots (Middius,
>>>Sackman, Weil...) were writing that he was inviting Arnold to "destroy"
>>>him (which was IMHO insulting for JA).
>>>
>>
>>
>> Show me where I said that, please.
>
> No.

I didn't think you would.



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[Lionel]

Clyde Slick a écrit :
> "Lionel" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>>Clyde Slick a écrit :
>>
>>>"Lionel" > wrote in message
...
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>When, months ago, he invited Krueger I have been the *first* to write
>>>>that he was acting like a *gentleman* while the usual idiots (Middius,
>>>>Sackman, Weil...) were writing that he was inviting Arnold to "destroy"
>>>>him (which was IMHO insulting for JA).
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>Show me where I said that, please.
>>
>>No.
>
>
> I didn't think you would.

So why do you ask, eh idiot ?
Anyway it was a pleasure to read a "please" from a guy that
I disdain. :-)

[Lionel]

Robert Morein a écrit :
> "Lionel" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>>Robert Morein a écrit :
>>
>>>"Lionel" > wrote in message
...
>>>
>>>
>>>>Robert Morein a écrit :
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>"Lionel" > wrote in message
>>>
>>>[snip]
>>>
>>>
>>>>Most of the RAO remaining regulars are guys fascinated by
>>>>Arnold Krueger. He exerts on them an attraction, a pervet
>>>>interest which make them look very stupid. Watch Weil's
>>>>pathetic efforts to get a little attention from Arnold,
>>>>don't tell me that this guy is "normal", and no need to
>>>>speak about Middius' real obsession...
>>>>
>>>
>>>That's because Kruger doesn't give them room to breathe.
>>>It would be one thing if Krueger said, "Your comparisons are inaccurate,
>
> you
>
>>>can do much better with ABX". Even if that is a false statement, it is
>
> a
>
>>>reasonable statement.
>>>
>>>But Krueger prefers to issue sweeping proclamations, such as "All
>
> properly
>
>>>operating amplifiers sound the same." This could be interpreted a number
>
> of
>
>>>different ways, since Krueger didn't even bother to define "properly
>>>operating". But Krueger uses it to destroy their universe of choices.
>>
>>It can also be interpreted as an axiom opening an endless
>>search for *THE* properly operating amplifier... This is the
>>philosophy of most of the audio enthusiasts and DIYers.
>>
>>
>>>See http://hyperdictionary.com/search.aspx?define=bigot, which has a
>
> French
>
>>>root, bigottire, "to terrify, to appall."
>>>
>>>I think that what you're seeing, in terms of unbounded hostility, is a
>>>normal human reaction. What Krueger does is very much analogous to acts
>
> of
>
>>>religious desecration.
>>
>>Sure that Arnold has a kind of paranoid conception of his
>>hobby, if not he would never have attracted a paranoid
>>personality like George M. Middius.
>>
>>
>>>As far as you being a supporter, he has a far better one than he
>
> deserves
>
>>>:).
>>
>>:-o
>>
>>
>>>About Atkinson:
>>>I find Atkinson congenial, open-minded, and knowledgeable.
>>
>>Sure he is, but also manipulative and demagogue IMHO.
>>
>>
>>>OTOH, I do have a feeling about Stereophile that may be similar to
>
> yours.
>
>>>Stereophile, as a whole, has provided excessive emphasis on the
>
> intangibles
>
>>>of style.
>>
>>This remember me Dave Weil's review of Trotsky speakers. 4
>>or 5 long boring chapters of pompous verbiage to be unable
>>to say that these speakers are bull**** only. Because these
>>speakers are BS. It is totally impossible to marry the 2
>>drivers (the 8" and the ribbon tweeter). All the DIYers who
>>have tried have abandoned the project : BS results.
>>
>>
>>>While Arny makes less of this hobby that there really is, Stereophile
>
> makes
>
>>>more.
>>>Paradoxically, the counter to that is Atkinson himself. His lab tests
>
> are
>
>>>the most thorough and accurate that I've seen in an audio magazine. And
>
> he
>
>>>does it consistently; he never lapses. He provides a consistent counter
>
> to
>
>>>his reviewers, whose subjective opinions I mostly discount.
>>>
>>>Is Stereophile fair? Does it play favorites? I'm afraid it does, but
>
> every
>
>>>published journal has unwritten rules for access, and Stereophile is no
>>>exception.
>>
>>
>>
>>>Since I don't often have a Stereophile Class A piece in my hands
>>>for a protracted period of time, this is hard to pin down. But last
>
> year, I
>
>>>did. It was John Curl's flagship design for Stereophile, the Adcom
>
> GFP-750,
>
>>>a single-ended pure MOSFET design.
>>>
>>>The reviewer's opinion was that this was the closest thing to a
>>>straight-wire-with-gain; no audible coloration. The output impedance of
>
> this
>
>>>unit is around 2000 ohms, far higher than found in a lot of cheaper
>
> stuff.
>
>>>When I put this into my system, the effect of the high output impedance
>
> was
>
>>>immediately obvious. There was a bass anomaly. Fifteen feet of cable
>>>connecting it to the power amp was too much for it to handle.
>>>
>>>If I recall correctly, Atkinson stated in his technical evaluation that
>
> the
>
>>>2000 ohm output impedance should cause no problem. But this unit has
>>>balanced outputs, making it potentially useful for driving long runs of
>>>cable. It cannot do that.
>>>
>>>The GFP-750 remained notably pure even at high drive levels. However,
>>>Atkinson's omission of the problems and cautions associated with a 2K
>
> output
>
>>>impedance was a signficant one.
>>
>>Reviews are full of unprecise and fuzzy opinions like
>>"should cause no problem". You should have been enough
>>twisted to understand that it means "be careful". :-)
>
>
> In France, you have the "wine" phenomena. How do people regard the
> pronouncements of the "boquet" of wine, and so forth, when this depend
> mainly on how much ethylene glycol has been added ? ;)
> It is similar, no? Wine is a combination of tannic acid, aromatic
> hydrocarbons, resveratrol, clarification through beef blood, a bunch of
> chemicals, and people derive from it a subjective perspective that is
> completely different in character.

Wine is a gift of mother nature, human language isn't enough
developed to describe a good wine.
Anyway it would present a relative interest only considering
the poor consideration that the most of human beings have
for the greatest poets.

:-(

[John Atkinson]

Arny Krueger wrote:
> I probably spent more on audio last year than JA.

If by "JA" you are referring to me, Mr. Krueger, I
fail to see why this matters to you. For what it's
worth, I spent around $5000 on audio components in
the past 12 months. How much did you spend?

John Atkinson
Editor, Stereophile

[Howard Ferstler]

John Atkinson wrote:
>
> Arny Krueger wrote:
> > I probably spent more on audio last year than JA.
>
> If by "JA" you are referring to me, Mr. Krueger, I
> fail to see why this matters to you. For what it's
> worth, I spent around $5000 on audio components in
> the past 12 months. How much did you spend?

Given the hardware I already have on hand, my wife would
kill me if I spent that much on additional stuff over a
one-year period, without proving that any of it would result
in a genuine sonic improvement. Thankfully, I am afraid that
she is as much a skeptic as I am. She has let me spend that
much on woodworking tools, but the bottom line is that I
have to use them to make worthwhile things.

I would imagine that the amount spent on high-end equipment
upgrades is a criteria for judging the seriousness of more
than one audio enthusiast. One cannot be a real high-end
"audio buff" unless they continuously "upgrade," under the
guidance of the upscale magazine reviewers and trusted,
high-end sales clerks.

Howard Ferstler

[Arny Krueger]

John Atkinson wrote:
> Arny Krueger wrote:
>> I probably spent more on audio last year than JA.
>
> If by "JA" you are referring to me, Mr. Krueger, I
> fail to see why this matters to you. For what it's
> worth, I spent around $5000 on audio components in
> the past 12 months. How much did you spend?

More.

[Robert Morein]

"Lionel" > wrote in message
...
> Robert Morein a écrit :
> > "Lionel" > wrote in message
> > ...
> >
> >>Robert Morein a écrit :
> >>
> >>>"Lionel" > wrote in message
> ...
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>Robert Morein a écrit :
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>"Lionel" > wrote in message
> >>>
> >>>[snip]
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>Most of the RAO remaining regulars are guys fascinated by
> >>>>Arnold Krueger. He exerts on them an attraction, a pervet
> >>>>interest which make them look very stupid. Watch Weil's
> >>>>pathetic efforts to get a little attention from Arnold,
> >>>>don't tell me that this guy is "normal", and no need to
> >>>>speak about Middius' real obsession...
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>>That's because Kruger doesn't give them room to breathe.
> >>>It would be one thing if Krueger said, "Your comparisons are
inaccurate,
> >
> > you
> >
> >>>can do much better with ABX". Even if that is a false statement, it is
> >
> > a
> >
> >>>reasonable statement.
> >>>
> >>>But Krueger prefers to issue sweeping proclamations, such as "All
> >
> > properly
> >
> >>>operating amplifiers sound the same." This could be interpreted a
number
> >
> > of
> >
> >>>different ways, since Krueger didn't even bother to define "properly
> >>>operating". But Krueger uses it to destroy their universe of choices.
> >>
> >>It can also be interpreted as an axiom opening an endless
> >>search for *THE* properly operating amplifier... This is the
> >>philosophy of most of the audio enthusiasts and DIYers.
> >>
> >>
> >>>See http://hyperdictionary.com/search.aspx?define=bigot, which has a
> >
> > French
> >
> >>>root, bigottire, "to terrify, to appall."
> >>>
> >>>I think that what you're seeing, in terms of unbounded hostility, is a
> >>>normal human reaction. What Krueger does is very much analogous to acts
> >
> > of
> >
> >>>religious desecration.
> >>
> >>Sure that Arnold has a kind of paranoid conception of his
> >>hobby, if not he would never have attracted a paranoid
> >>personality like George M. Middius.
> >>
> >>
> >>>As far as you being a supporter, he has a far better one than he
> >
> > deserves
> >
> >>>:).
> >>
> >>:-o
> >>
> >>
> >>>About Atkinson:
> >>>I find Atkinson congenial, open-minded, and knowledgeable.
> >>
> >>Sure he is, but also manipulative and demagogue IMHO.
> >>
> >>
> >>>OTOH, I do have a feeling about Stereophile that may be similar to
> >
> > yours.
> >
> >>>Stereophile, as a whole, has provided excessive emphasis on the
> >
> > intangibles
> >
> >>>of style.
> >>
> >>This remember me Dave Weil's review of Trotsky speakers. 4
> >>or 5 long boring chapters of pompous verbiage to be unable
> >>to say that these speakers are bull**** only. Because these
> >>speakers are BS. It is totally impossible to marry the 2
> >>drivers (the 8" and the ribbon tweeter). All the DIYers who
> >>have tried have abandoned the project : BS results.
> >>
> >>
> >>>While Arny makes less of this hobby that there really is, Stereophile
> >
> > makes
> >
> >>>more.
> >>>Paradoxically, the counter to that is Atkinson himself. His lab tests
> >
> > are
> >
> >>>the most thorough and accurate that I've seen in an audio magazine. And
> >
> > he
> >
> >>>does it consistently; he never lapses. He provides a consistent
counter
> >
> > to
> >
> >>>his reviewers, whose subjective opinions I mostly discount.
> >>>
> >>>Is Stereophile fair? Does it play favorites? I'm afraid it does, but
> >
> > every
> >
> >>>published journal has unwritten rules for access, and Stereophile is no
> >>>exception.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>>Since I don't often have a Stereophile Class A piece in my hands
> >>>for a protracted period of time, this is hard to pin down. But last
> >
> > year, I
> >
> >>>did. It was John Curl's flagship design for Stereophile, the Adcom
> >
> > GFP-750,
> >
> >>>a single-ended pure MOSFET design.
> >>>
> >>>The reviewer's opinion was that this was the closest thing to a
> >>>straight-wire-with-gain; no audible coloration. The output impedance of
> >
> > this
> >
> >>>unit is around 2000 ohms, far higher than found in a lot of cheaper
> >
> > stuff.
> >
> >>>When I put this into my system, the effect of the high output impedance
> >
> > was
> >
> >>>immediately obvious. There was a bass anomaly. Fifteen feet of cable
> >>>connecting it to the power amp was too much for it to handle.
> >>>
> >>>If I recall correctly, Atkinson stated in his technical evaluation that
> >
> > the
> >
> >>>2000 ohm output impedance should cause no problem. But this unit has
> >>>balanced outputs, making it potentially useful for driving long runs of
> >>>cable. It cannot do that.
> >>>
> >>>The GFP-750 remained notably pure even at high drive levels. However,
> >>>Atkinson's omission of the problems and cautions associated with a 2K
> >
> > output
> >
> >>>impedance was a signficant one.
> >>
> >>Reviews are full of unprecise and fuzzy opinions like
> >>"should cause no problem". You should have been enough
> >>twisted to understand that it means "be careful". :-)
> >
> >
> > In France, you have the "wine" phenomena. How do people regard the
> > pronouncements of the "boquet" of wine, and so forth, when this depend
> > mainly on how much ethylene glycol has been added ? ;)
> > It is similar, no? Wine is a combination of tannic acid, aromatic
> > hydrocarbons, resveratrol, clarification through beef blood, a bunch of
> > chemicals, and people derive from it a subjective perspective that is
> > completely different in character.
>
> Wine is a gift of mother nature, human language isn't enough
> developed to describe a good wine.
> Anyway it would present a relative interest only considering
> the poor consideration that the most of human beings have
> for the greatest poets.
>
> :-(

Ahaha!!!! A closet subjectivist!
I wonder what Arny thinks of wine.
Simply grape juice?

[Clyde Slick]

"Lionel" > wrote in message
...
> Clyde Slick a écrit :
>> "Lionel" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>
>>>Clyde Slick a écrit :
>>>
>>>>"Lionel" > wrote in message
...
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>When, months ago, he invited Krueger I have been the *first* to write
>>>>>that he was acting like a *gentleman* while the usual idiots (Middius,
>>>>>Sackman, Weil...) were writing that he was inviting Arnold to "destroy"
>>>>>him (which was IMHO insulting for JA).
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Show me where I said that, please.
>>>
>>>No.
>>
>>
>> I didn't think you would.
>
> So why do you ask, eh idiot ?
> Anyway it was a pleasure to read a "please" from a guy that I disdain. :-)

I thought if I asked you nicely, you would be a gentleman.
I was wrong.



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[Clyde Slick]

"John Atkinson" > wrote in message
oups.com...
>
> Arny Krueger wrote:
>> I probably spent more on audio last year than JA.
>
> If by "JA" you are referring to me, Mr. Krueger, I
> fail to see why this matters to you. For what it's
> worth, I spent around $5000 on audio components in
> the past 12 months. How much did you spend?
>
> John Atkinson
> Editor, Stereophile
>

$5,001, I am sure.



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[Clyde Slick]

"Howard Fustian" > wrote in message
...

>
> Given the hardware I already have on hand, my wife would
> kill me if I spent that much on additional stuff over a
> one-year period, without proving that any of it would result
> in a genuine sonic improvement. Thankfully, I am afraid that
> she is as much a skeptic as I am. She has let me spend that
> much on woodworking tools, but the bottom line is that I
> have to use them to make worthwhile things.
>

She definitely wants you out in the
treehouse at nights.



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[George M. Middius]

Robert Morein said:

> Arny, telephone taps, guitar amps, and Radio Shack lapel mics do not
> qualify.

Give Mr. **** a break. That's all he's got.

> I like the idea of cable stands. A new tweak?

More likely, the toilet ran over and flooded his "listening room".

[George M. Middius]

Brother Horace the Yenta said:

> > If by "JA" you are referring to me, Mr. Krueger, I
> > fail to see why this matters to you. For what it's
> > worth, I spent around $5000 on audio components in
> > the past 12 months. How much did you spend?

> Given the hardware I already have on hand, my wife would
> kill me if I spent that much on additional stuff

Who's talking to you?

[Howard Ferstler]

Arny Krueger wrote:
>
> John Atkinson wrote:
> > Arny Krueger wrote:
> >> I probably spent more on audio last year than JA.
> >
> > If by "JA" you are referring to me, Mr. Krueger, I
> > fail to see why this matters to you. For what it's
> > worth, I spent around $5000 on audio components in
> > the past 12 months. How much did you spend?
>
> More.

Yoiks! I hope you got your money's worth. My guess is that
much of what you spent was for test and evaluation gear and
not on exotic amps, wires, and speakers that did not gain
you all that much additional quality.

Am I correct?

Howard Ferstler

[Howard Ferstler]

"George M. Middius" wrote:
>
> Brother Horace the Yenta said:
>
> > > If by "JA" you are referring to me, Mr. Krueger, I
> > > fail to see why this matters to you. For what it's
> > > worth, I spent around $5000 on audio components in
> > > the past 12 months. How much did you spend?
>
> > Given the hardware I already have on hand, my wife would
> > kill me if I spent that much on additional stuff
>
> Who's talking to you?

Look who's talking!

Howard Ferstler

[George M. Middius]

Brother Horace the Stintingly Parsimonious whined:

> > Brother Horace the Yenta said:
> >
> > > > If by "JA" you are referring to me, Mr. Krueger, I
> > > > fail to see why this matters to you. For what it's
> > > > worth, I spent around $5000 on audio components in
> > > > the past 12 months. How much did you spend?
> >
> > > Given the hardware I already have on hand, my wife would
> > > kill me if I spent that much on additional stuff
> >
> > Who's talking to you?
>
> Look who's talking!

You are, as usual.

No need to make excuses for your cheapness, Harold. Nobody expects anything
more from you. ;-)

[Clyde Slick]

"Howard Ferstler" > wrote in message
...
> Arny Krueger wrote:
>>
>> John Atkinson wrote:
>> > Arny Krueger wrote:
>> >> I probably spent more on audio last year than JA.
>> >
>> > If by "JA" you are referring to me, Mr. Krueger, I
>> > fail to see why this matters to you. For what it's
>> > worth, I spent around $5000 on audio components in
>> > the past 12 months. How much did you spend?
>>
>> More.
>
> Yoiks! I hope you got your money's worth. My guess is that
> much of what you spent was for test and evaluation gear and
> not on exotic amps, wires, and speakers that did not gain
> you all that much additional quality.
>
> Am I correct?
>

oh yeah!!!
all that test and evaluation gear sure improved the sound of his setup!
That sure was money well spent!



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[EddieM]

> Arny Krueger wrote
>> Surf wrote:
>>> dick "internet bicycle repairman" Malesweski wrote
>
>
>
>
>>> Two weeks after the "Great Debate", it is clearly John
>>> Atkinson's credibility that has taken the hit. As you say, "he
>>> played, he lost".
>
>> Yes - the credibility hit he has taken with you four
>> idiots is keeping him up at night.
>
> Tom, apparently you're trying to explain Atkinson's
> bedraggled appearance at the debate. He had some kind of
> premonition that this was going to happen.
>
>>The rest of us can see that John
>> behaves like a gentleman and Arny behaves like a cowardly
>> nerd.
>
> Really? You can say that even after the release of the
> recording of the debate, which finishes up with Atkinson's
> slightly quivering voice relievedly unilaterally calling an
> end to the debate at the earliest possible opportunity?


Arny said during the Debate on # 34:40


" If you cannot reliably detect difference between two piece
of equipment, then preference is irrelevant - because they
sound the same. If there's no sonic difference, then there's
no sonic preference. "



If the above non sequitur is a BULLET between your eyes...,
Susan would bolt out of her wheelchair after hearing it in Detroit
then take a hostage to the nearest tarmac allowing her to
enter the next plane en flight toNew York City and dash towards
the Convention unto the front stage during the Debate to pick up
the bloody mess and skull fragments spewing out from the exit
wound on the back of your head.




> Why should John get any more respect than I?


Ask you wife!


LoL!

[dave weil]

On Sat, 14 May 2005 22:21:25 +0200, Lionel >
wrote:

>dave weil a écrit :
>> On Sat, 14 May 2005 18:20:39 +0200, Lionel >
>> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>When, months ago, he invited Krueger I have been the *first*
>>>to write that he was acting like a *gentleman* while the
>>>usual idiots (Middius, Sackman, Weil...) were writing that
>>>he was inviting Arnold to "destroy" him (which was IMHO
>>>insulting for JA).
>>
>>
>> I never said any such thing.
>
>You are an idiot.

Are you STILL talking?

[dave weil]

On 14 May 2005 20:53:28 GMT, Lionel_Chapuis <> wrote:

> George M. Middius wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> dave weil said to Lionella:
>>
>> > Since you respond to almost 100% of my posts, what does this say about
>> > *your* efforts? Would pathetic qualify?
>>
>> A good 'bot is nothing if not persistent. Whoever programmed Slut to keep
>> barking at you can at least take solace in that.
>
>The funny thing is that I only respond to Dave Weil's troll messages directed to Arnold Krueger.

Quit lying.

>I agree when Dave says that I respond to almost 100% of his posts... So this means that almost 100% of his RAO posts are trolls directed to Arnold Krueger.
>If you don't call that an obsession... ;-)

Faulty logic and basically untrue anyway.

[dave weil]

On Sat, 14 May 2005 22:56:37 +0200, Lionel >
wrote:

>Clyde Slick a écrit :
>> "Lionel" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>
>>
>>>When, months ago, he invited Krueger I have been the *first* to write that
>>>he was acting like a *gentleman* while the usual idiots (Middius, Sackman,
>>>Weil...) were writing that he was inviting Arnold to "destroy" him (which
>>>was IMHO insulting for JA).
>>>
>>
>>
>> Show me where I said that, please.
>
>No.

Look what you've been reduced to...

[dave weil]

On Sun, 15 May 2005 00:15:52 +0200, Lionel >
wrote:

>This remember me Dave Weil's review of Trotsky speakers. 4
>or 5 long boring chapters of pompous verbiage to be unable
>to say that these speakers are bull**** only.

Wrong.

But that's not new for you.

And for YOU to claim someone is pompously verbose is a hoot, Mr.
Baroque.

[Lionel]

Robert Morein a écrit :
> "Lionel" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>>Robert Morein a écrit :
>>
>>>"Lionel" > wrote in message
...
>>>
>>>
>>>>Robert Morein a écrit :
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>"Lionel" > wrote in message
...
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>Robert Morein a écrit :
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>"Lionel" > wrote in message
>>>>>
>>>>>[snip]
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>Most of the RAO remaining regulars are guys fascinated by
>>>>>>Arnold Krueger. He exerts on them an attraction, a pervet
>>>>>>interest which make them look very stupid. Watch Weil's
>>>>>>pathetic efforts to get a little attention from Arnold,
>>>>>>don't tell me that this guy is "normal", and no need to
>>>>>>speak about Middius' real obsession...
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>That's because Kruger doesn't give them room to breathe.
>>>>>It would be one thing if Krueger said, "Your comparisons are
>
> inaccurate,
>
>>>you
>>>
>>>
>>>>>can do much better with ABX". Even if that is a false statement, it is
>>>
>>>a
>>>
>>>
>>>>>reasonable statement.
>>>>>
>>>>>But Krueger prefers to issue sweeping proclamations, such as "All
>>>
>>>properly
>>>
>>>
>>>>>operating amplifiers sound the same." This could be interpreted a
>
> number
>
>>>of
>>>
>>>
>>>>>different ways, since Krueger didn't even bother to define "properly
>>>>>operating". But Krueger uses it to destroy their universe of choices.
>>>>
>>>>It can also be interpreted as an axiom opening an endless
>>>>search for *THE* properly operating amplifier... This is the
>>>>philosophy of most of the audio enthusiasts and DIYers.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>See http://hyperdictionary.com/search.aspx?define=bigot, which has a
>>>
>>>French
>>>
>>>
>>>>>root, bigottire, "to terrify, to appall."
>>>>>
>>>>>I think that what you're seeing, in terms of unbounded hostility, is a
>>>>>normal human reaction. What Krueger does is very much analogous to acts
>>>
>>>of
>>>
>>>
>>>>>religious desecration.
>>>>
>>>>Sure that Arnold has a kind of paranoid conception of his
>>>>hobby, if not he would never have attracted a paranoid
>>>>personality like George M. Middius.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>As far as you being a supporter, he has a far better one than he
>>>
>>>deserves
>>>
>>>
>>>>>:).
>>>>
>>>>:-o
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>About Atkinson:
>>>>>I find Atkinson congenial, open-minded, and knowledgeable.
>>>>
>>>>Sure he is, but also manipulative and demagogue IMHO.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>OTOH, I do have a feeling about Stereophile that may be similar to
>>>
>>>yours.
>>>
>>>
>>>>>Stereophile, as a whole, has provided excessive emphasis on the
>>>
>>>intangibles
>>>
>>>
>>>>>of style.
>>>>
>>>>This remember me Dave Weil's review of Trotsky speakers. 4
>>>>or 5 long boring chapters of pompous verbiage to be unable
>>>>to say that these speakers are bull**** only. Because these
>>>>speakers are BS. It is totally impossible to marry the 2
>>>>drivers (the 8" and the ribbon tweeter). All the DIYers who
>>>>have tried have abandoned the project : BS results.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>While Arny makes less of this hobby that there really is, Stereophile
>>>
>>>makes
>>>
>>>
>>>>>more.
>>>>>Paradoxically, the counter to that is Atkinson himself. His lab tests
>>>
>>>are
>>>
>>>
>>>>>the most thorough and accurate that I've seen in an audio magazine. And
>>>
>>>he
>>>
>>>
>>>>>does it consistently; he never lapses. He provides a consistent
>
> counter
>
>>>to
>>>
>>>
>>>>>his reviewers, whose subjective opinions I mostly discount.
>>>>>
>>>>>Is Stereophile fair? Does it play favorites? I'm afraid it does, but
>>>
>>>every
>>>
>>>
>>>>>published journal has unwritten rules for access, and Stereophile is no
>>>>>exception.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>Since I don't often have a Stereophile Class A piece in my hands
>>>>>for a protracted period of time, this is hard to pin down. But last
>>>
>>>year, I
>>>
>>>
>>>>>did. It was John Curl's flagship design for Stereophile, the Adcom
>>>
>>>GFP-750,
>>>
>>>
>>>>>a single-ended pure MOSFET design.
>>>>>
>>>>>The reviewer's opinion was that this was the closest thing to a
>>>>>straight-wire-with-gain; no audible coloration. The output impedance of
>>>
>>>this
>>>
>>>
>>>>>unit is around 2000 ohms, far higher than found in a lot of cheaper
>>>
>>>stuff.
>>>
>>>
>>>>>When I put this into my system, the effect of the high output impedance
>>>
>>>was
>>>
>>>
>>>>>immediately obvious. There was a bass anomaly. Fifteen feet of cable
>>>>>connecting it to the power amp was too much for it to handle.
>>>>>
>>>>>If I recall correctly, Atkinson stated in his technical evaluation that
>>>
>>>the
>>>
>>>
>>>>>2000 ohm output impedance should cause no problem. But this unit has
>>>>>balanced outputs, making it potentially useful for driving long runs of
>>>>>cable. It cannot do that.
>>>>>
>>>>>The GFP-750 remained notably pure even at high drive levels. However,
>>>>>Atkinson's omission of the problems and cautions associated with a 2K
>>>
>>>output
>>>
>>>
>>>>>impedance was a signficant one.
>>>>
>>>>Reviews are full of unprecise and fuzzy opinions like
>>>>"should cause no problem". You should have been enough
>>>>twisted to understand that it means "be careful". :-)
>>>
>>>
>>>In France, you have the "wine" phenomena. How do people regard the
>>>pronouncements of the "boquet" of wine, and so forth, when this depend
>>>mainly on how much ethylene glycol has been added ? ;)
>>>It is similar, no? Wine is a combination of tannic acid, aromatic
>>>hydrocarbons, resveratrol, clarification through beef blood, a bunch of
>>>chemicals, and people derive from it a subjective perspective that is
>>>completely different in character.
>>
>>Wine is a gift of mother nature, human language isn't enough
>>developed to describe a good wine.
>>Anyway it would present a relative interest only considering
>>the poor consideration that the most of human beings have
>>for the greatest poets.
>>
>>:-(
>
>
> Ahaha!!!! A closet subjectivist!

Difficult to be more subjectivist than me, Bob.

> I wonder what Arny thinks of wine.
> Simply grape juice?

I just know what George "Diet Soda" Middius has written
about wines. The usenet oenologues now call him "Geoge M.
Midborg".

:-D

[Lionel]

Clyde Slick a écrit :
> "Lionel" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>>Clyde Slick a écrit :
>>
>>>"Lionel" > wrote in message
...
>>>
>>>
>>>>Clyde Slick a écrit :
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>"Lionel" > wrote in message
...
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>When, months ago, he invited Krueger I have been the *first* to write
>>>>>>that he was acting like a *gentleman* while the usual idiots (Middius,
>>>>>>Sackman, Weil...) were writing that he was inviting Arnold to "destroy"
>>>>>>him (which was IMHO insulting for JA).
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>Show me where I said that, please.
>>>>
>>>>No.
>>>
>>>
>>>I didn't think you would.
>>
>>So why do you ask, eh idiot ?
>>Anyway it was a pleasure to read a "please" from a guy that I disdain. :-)
>
>
> I thought if I asked you nicely, you would be a gentleman.
> I was wrong.

The above is not really coherent with your recent "frenchs
are disgusting".
Why should I give an idiot the occasion to insult me 2 times ?

I was right.

[Lionel]

dave weil a écrit :
> On Sat, 14 May 2005 22:21:25 +0200, Lionel >
> wrote:
>
>
>>dave weil a écrit :
>>
>>>On Sat, 14 May 2005 18:20:39 +0200, Lionel >
>>>wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>When, months ago, he invited Krueger I have been the *first*
>>>>to write that he was acting like a *gentleman* while the
>>>>usual idiots (Middius, Sackman, Weil...) were writing that
>>>>he was inviting Arnold to "destroy" him (which was IMHO
>>>>insulting for JA).
>>>
>>>
>>>I never said any such thing.
>>
>>You are an idiot.
>
>
> Are you STILL talking?

Eh, eh.

[Lionel]

"8hz" dave weil a écrit :

>>I agree when Dave says that I respond to almost 100% of his posts... So this means that almost 100% of his RAO posts are trolls directed to Arnold Krueger.
>>If you don't call that an obsession... ;-)
>
>
> Faulty logic...

LOL !

[Lionel]

dave weil a écrit :
> On Sun, 15 May 2005 00:15:52 +0200, Lionel >
> wrote:
>
>
>>This remember me Dave Weil's review of Trotsky speakers. 4
>>or 5 long boring chapters of pompous verbiage to be unable
>>to say that these speakers are bull**** only.
>
>
> Wrong.


Eh, he.

;-)

[Arny Krueger]

Howard Ferstler wrote:
> Arny Krueger wrote:
>>
>> John Atkinson wrote:
>>> Arny Krueger wrote:
>>>> I probably spent more on audio last year than JA.
>>>
>>> If by "JA" you are referring to me, Mr. Krueger, I
>>> fail to see why this matters to you. For what it's
>>> worth, I spent around $5000 on audio components in
>>> the past 12 months. How much did you spend?
>>
>> More.
>
> Yoiks! I hope you got your money's worth. My guess is that
> much of what you spent was for test and evaluation gear
and
> not on exotic amps, wires, and speakers that did not gain
> you all that much additional quality.
>
> Am I correct?

Close, but no cigar. It was mostly spent on microphones, mic
stands, mic cables, mic preamps, power amps, speaker
drivers, and equalizers. For example, in the past year I
bought about 30 microphones.

[John Atkinson]

Robert Morein" > wrote in
Message >
> Atkinson['s]...lab tests are the most thorough and accurate
> that I've seen in an audio magazine. And he does it
> consistently; he never lapses.

Thank you Bob. But I would point to Martin Colloms (in HFN), Don
Keele (ex-Audio, now occasionally in TAC), Bascom King (ex-Audio,
now in Soundstage!), and Paul Miller (ex-Hi-Fi Choice, now HFN)
as each going further in specific areas of measurement.

> He provides a consistent counter to his reviewers...

That it is not my intent. I perform the measurements published
in Stereophile to investigate the reasons why they hear what
they describe. My hats are off to my team for continuing to
say what they feel despite the possibility that I will uncover
something wrong. If they ever start second-guessing themselves
in their observations, then they will no longer provide me (and
their readers) with valid data.

> whose subjective opinions I mostly discount.

We offer those opinions for people to accept or reject as they
wish.

> Is Stereophile fair? Does it play favorites? I'm afraid it does,
> but every published journal has unwritten rules for access, and
> Stereophile is no exception. Since I don't often have a
> Stereophile Class A piece in my hands for a protracted period of
> time, this is hard to pin down. But last year, I did. It was
> John Curl's flagship design for Stereophile, the Adcom GFP-750,
> a single-ended pure MOSFET design.

It was Nelson Pass who designed the GFP-750, not John Curl, but
that doesn't affect the point you are making, of course.

> The reviewer's opinion was that this was the closest thing to
> astraight-wire-with-gain; no audible coloration.

The review was published in the March 1999 issue. You can find
it in our free on-line archives at
http://www.stereophile.com/amplificationreviews/133.

> The output impedance of this unit is around 2000 ohms, far
> higher than found in a lot of cheaper stuff.

This is in balanced active mode, BTW. Unbalanced active source
impedance was half that, as expected. In passive mode, the source
impedance varied from 14 ohms to 512 ohms, depending on the
volume control setting.

> When I put this into my system, the effect of the high output
> impedance was immediately obvious. There was a bass anomaly.
> Fifteen feet of cable connecting it to the power amp was too
> much for it to handle.

Hmm, by "bass anomaly," do you mean a premature rolloff of low
frequencies? This would occur if the Adcom had a capacitor-
coupled output, which would result in an increase in source
impedance at low frequencies if your power amplifier itself
has alow input impedance. Do you recall what that was, Bob?.

The Adcom has a fairly low input impedance of 21k ohms in active
mode and a _very_ low input impedance of 1945 ohms in passive
mode. I assume you were using the active mode. It would be
interesting to learn what source component you used to feed
the Adcom and how _its_ source impedance varied with frequency.

> If I recall correctly, Atkinson stated in his technical
> evaluation that the 2000 ohm output impedance should cause no
> problem.

That's correct. With power amplifiers having input impedances
10x or greater than the Adcom's source impedance, there should not
be a problem.

> But this unit has balanced outputs, making it potentially useful
> for driving long runs of cable. It cannot do that.

It's not that it can't drive long runs of cable, but that its
source impedance apparently varies with frequency.

> The GFP-750 remained notably pure even at high drive levels.
> However, Atkinson's omission of the problems and cautions
> associated with a 2K output impedance was a signficant one.

I routinely check a component's source impedance at 20Hz,
1kHz, and 20kHz. The figure quoted in the review was the 1kHz
figure, which implies it was the same at low frequencies. But
if it wasn't -- I will check my notes tomorrow when I am back
in the office -- then yes, that would have been a significant
omission.

John Atkinson
Editor, Stereophile

[John Atkinson]

Arny Krueger wrote:
> John Atkinson wrote:
> > Arny Krueger wrote:
> >> I probably spent more on audio last year than JA.
> >
> > If by "JA" you are referring to me, Mr. Krueger, I
> > fail to see why this matters to you. For what it's
> > worth, I spent around $5000 on audio components in
> > the past 12 months. How much did you spend?
>
> More.

Okay. I do note that you say you are including the cost of
30 microphones in that total. Is this because you are
going to try close-miking of the singers in your choral
recordings? You mentioned taking to John Marks in the press
room at HE2005 and he reported to me that he offered you
some practical help in dealing with the problematic acoustics
of the church in which you make your recordings.

John Atkinson
Editor, Stereophile

[Robert Morein]

"John Atkinson" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> Robert Morein" > wrote in
> Message >
> > Atkinson['s]...lab tests are the most thorough and accurate
> > that I've seen in an audio magazine. And he does it
> > consistently; he never lapses.
>
> Thank you Bob. But I would point to Martin Colloms (in HFN), Don
> Keele (ex-Audio, now occasionally in TAC), Bascom King (ex-Audio,
> now in Soundstage!), and Paul Miller (ex-Hi-Fi Choice, now HFN)
> as each going further in specific areas of measurement.
>
> > He provides a consistent counter to his reviewers...
>
> That it is not my intent. I perform the measurements published
> in Stereophile to investigate the reasons why they hear what
> they describe. My hats are off to my team for continuing to
> say what they feel despite the possibility that I will uncover
> something wrong. If they ever start second-guessing themselves
> in their observations, then they will no longer provide me (and
> their readers) with valid data.
>
> > whose subjective opinions I mostly discount.
>
> We offer those opinions for people to accept or reject as they
> wish.
>
> > Is Stereophile fair? Does it play favorites? I'm afraid it does,
> > but every published journal has unwritten rules for access, and
> > Stereophile is no exception. Since I don't often have a
> > Stereophile Class A piece in my hands for a protracted period of
> > time, this is hard to pin down. But last year, I did. It was
> > John Curl's flagship design for Stereophile, the Adcom GFP-750,
> > a single-ended pure MOSFET design.
>
> It was Nelson Pass who designed the GFP-750, not John Curl, but
> that doesn't affect the point you are making, of course.
>
> > The reviewer's opinion was that this was the closest thing to
> > astraight-wire-with-gain; no audible coloration.
>
> The review was published in the March 1999 issue. You can find
> it in our free on-line archives at
> http://www.stereophile.com/amplificationreviews/133.
>
> > The output impedance of this unit is around 2000 ohms, far
> > higher than found in a lot of cheaper stuff.
>
> This is in balanced active mode, BTW. Unbalanced active source
> impedance was half that, as expected. In passive mode, the source
> impedance varied from 14 ohms to 512 ohms, depending on the
> volume control setting.
>
> > When I put this into my system, the effect of the high output
> > impedance was immediately obvious. There was a bass anomaly.
> > Fifteen feet of cable connecting it to the power amp was too
> > much for it to handle.
>
> Hmm, by "bass anomaly," do you mean a premature rolloff of low
> frequencies? This would occur if the Adcom had a capacitor-
> coupled output, which would result in an increase in source
> impedance at low frequencies if your power amplifier itself
> has alow input impedance. Do you recall what that was, Bob?.
>
I noticed what appeared to be a plumped up bass, around 30-40 Hz, with
diminished extreme low frequency extension. A possibly pleasing, but
inaccurate rendition. I recall that the diminished low bass response was
evident in your charts, but I don't remember if the plumping, was. I'm
guessing this is due to the low/no feedback design, not an output capacitor.

The amplifier is an Acoustat TNT-200, with unbalanced FET inputs, and a 47K
ohm input impedance. Interconnects are 15 or 18 feet of Radio Shack Gold.

Normally, I drive this line with a Hafler 915 as a buffer amp, because it
has low output impedance.

The GFP-750 also appeared to have a significantly higher level of background
hum than the other components in my system. These include a wide variety of
older and semi-ancient pieces, some with three wire power connections, some
without. Lifting the ground on the GFP-750 did not help.

[Clyde Slick]

"Lionel" > wrote in message
...
> Clyde Slick a écrit :
>> "Lionel" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>
>>>Clyde Slick a écrit :
>>>
>>>>"Lionel" > wrote in message
...
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>Clyde Slick a écrit :
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>"Lionel" > wrote in message
...
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>When, months ago, he invited Krueger I have been the *first* to write
>>>>>>>that he was acting like a *gentleman* while the usual idiots
>>>>>>>(Middius, Sackman, Weil...) were writing that he was inviting Arnold
>>>>>>>to "destroy" him (which was IMHO insulting for JA).
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Show me where I said that, please.
>>>>>
>>>>>No.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>I didn't think you would.
>>>
>>>So why do you ask, eh idiot ?
>>>Anyway it was a pleasure to read a "please" from a guy that I disdain.
>>>:-)
>>
>>
>> I thought if I asked you nicely, you would be a gentleman.
>> I was wrong.
>
> The above is not really coherent with your recent "frenchs are
> disgusting".
> Why should I give an idiot the occasion to insult me 2 times ?
>
> I was right.

It is so typical of a Frenchman to feel so proud
at living up to his low expectations.



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[Clyde Slick]

"John Atkinson" > wrote in message
oups.com...
>
> Arny Krueger wrote:
>> John Atkinson wrote:
>> > Arny Krueger wrote:
>> >> I probably spent more on audio last year than JA.
>> >
>> > If by "JA" you are referring to me, Mr. Krueger, I
>> > fail to see why this matters to you. For what it's
>> > worth, I spent around $5000 on audio components in
>> > the past 12 months. How much did you spend?
>>
>> More.
>
> Okay. I do note that you say you are including the cost of
> 30 microphones in that total. Is this because you are
> going to try close-miking of the singers in your choral
> recordings? You mentioned taking to John Marks in the press
> room at HE2005 and he reported to me that he offered you
> some practical help in dealing with the problematic acoustics
> of the church in which you make your recordings.
>

but did he address the problematic musical director of the choir?



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[Lionel]

Clyde Slick a écrit :

> It is so typical of a Frenchman to feel so proud
> at living up to his low expectations.

It is so typical to Art Sackman to be so stupid and deprived
of any pride... ;-)

[ScottW]

"Lionel" > wrote in message
...
> Clyde Slick a écrit :
>
>> It is so typical of a Frenchman to feel so proud
>> at living up to his low expectations.
>
> It is so typical to Art Sackman to be so stupid and deprived of any
> pride... ;-)

I guess that is a big deal to those where pride is all they have.

Tell me, when you have nothing left but pride...how do you escape arrogance?

ScottW

[George M. Middius]

Scottie said to Slut:

> Tell me, when you have nothing left but pride...how do you escape arrogance?

You should know this one. Lionella eats Krooger's ****.

[Lionel]

ScottW a écrit :
> "Lionel" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>>Clyde Slick a écrit :
>>
>>
>>>It is so typical of a Frenchman to feel so proud
>>>at living up to his low expectations.
>>
>>It is so typical to Art Sackman to be so stupid and deprived of any
>>pride... ;-)
>
>
> I guess that is a big deal to those where pride is all they have.
>
> Tell me, when you have nothing left but pride...how do you escape arrogance?

I'm not surprised that you awkwardly try to combine the 2
concepts, Scott...
You discourage the more patient and generous posters to give
you an explanation.


Sorry.

[[email protected]]

George M. Middius wrote:
> Scottie said to Slut:
>
> > Tell me, when you have nothing left but pride...how do you escape
arrogance?
>
> You should know this one. Lionella eats Krooger's ****.

>
>
"George M. Middius is insane." - Lionel Chapuis May 13, 2005

[John Atkinson]

Robert Morein wrote:
> "John Atkinson" > wrote in message
> oups.com...
> > Hmm, by "bass anomaly," do you mean a premature rolloff of low
> > frequencies? This would occur if the Adcom had a capacitor-
> > coupled output, which would result in an increase in source
> > impedance at low frequencies if your power amplifier itself
> > has a low input impedance. Do you recall what that was, Bob?.
> >
> I noticed what appeared to be a plumped up bass, around 30-40 Hz,
> with diminished extreme low frequency extension. A possibly
> pleasing, but inaccurate rendition.

Now you have me realy puzzled Bob, because I can't think of a
combination of cable reactance and source/load impedances that
would give you a boost in bass. Doesn't mean you didn't hear
what you heard, of course.

> The amplifier is an Acoustat TNT-200, with unbalanced FET inputs,
> and a 47K ohm input impedance.

With Adcom's unbalanced source impedance of 1k, this should not
have led to any frequency domain problems, even with the Radio
Shack cables in the lengths you mention.

Did you measure the response hump in the 30-40Hz region or
was this what you perceived? (It may have been due to some
other factor than an actual response peak.)

> The GFP-750 also appeared to have a significantly higher level of
> background hum than the other components in my system. These
> include a wide variety of older and semi-ancient pieces, some with
> three wire power connections, some without. Lifting the ground on
> the GFP-750 did not help.

This was with the unbalanced connection to the TNT amp, right?
I didn't find any grounding anomalies on our review sample, but
the problem is that such things are very system and house-wiring
dependent. Sorry you were disappointed in the Adcom -- it was a
great-sounding preamp at what I felt was a very attractive price.

John Atkinson
Editor, Stereophile

[Lionel]

a écrit :

> George "Betty Boop" Middius wrote:
>
>>Scottie said to Slut:
>>
>>
>>>Tell me, when you have nothing left but pride...how do you escape
>
> arrogance?
>
>>You should know this one. Lionella eats Krooger's ****.

Lionel doesn't eat **** George, neither from Krueger nor
from Atkinson. Can you be so affirmative ?

> "George M. Middius is insane." - Lionel Chapuis May 13, 2005

My modesty is suffering... ;-)

[ScottW]

"Lionel" > wrote in message
...
> ScottW a écrit :
>> "Lionel" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>
>>>Clyde Slick a écrit :
>>>
>>>
>>>>It is so typical of a Frenchman to feel so proud
>>>>at living up to his low expectations.
>>>
>>>It is so typical to Art Sackman to be so stupid and deprived of any
>>>pride... ;-)
>>
>>
>> I guess that is a big deal to those where pride is all they have.
>>
>> Tell me, when you have nothing left but pride...how do you escape
>> arrogance?
>
> I'm not surprised that you awkwardly try to combine the 2 concepts,
> Scott...

If you weren't so stupid you'd know that nothing but pride is arrogant.

ScottW

[Lionel]

ScottW a écrit :
> "Lionel" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>>ScottW a écrit :
>>
>>>"Lionel" > wrote in message
...
>>>
>>>
>>>>Clyde Slick a écrit :
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>It is so typical of a Frenchman to feel so proud
>>>>>at living up to his low expectations.
>>>>
>>>>It is so typical to Art Sackman to be so stupid and deprived of any
>>>>pride... ;-)
>>>
>>>
>>>I guess that is a big deal to those where pride is all they have.
>>>
>>>Tell me, when you have nothing left but pride...how do you escape
>>>arrogance?
>>
>>I'm not surprised that you awkwardly try to combine the 2 concepts,
>>Scott...
>
>
> If you weren't so stupid you'd know that nothing but pride is arrogant.

If you weren't an idiot you wouldn't make the confusion
between pride and hubris.
But I doubt that you can apprehend the nuance.

Sorry Scott.

[jclause]

>She has let me spend that much on woodworking tools, but the
>bottom line is that I have to use them to make worthwhile things.


Howies wife won't let him spend much
Or else he's sure to get in dutch.
He's hen-pecked you see
We'd likely all agree..
And so he don't get very such. ;-)

Hammingaway

[jclause]

In article >, says...
>
>
>
>>She has let me spend that much on woodworking tools, but the
>>bottom line is that I have to use them to make worthwhile things.
>
>
>Howies wife won't let him spend much
>Or else he's sure to get in dutch.
>He's hen-pecked you see
>We'd likely all agree..
>And so he don't get very such. ;-)

change such to much (as in nookie?) :-)

>Hammingaway

[Robert Morein]

"John Atkinson" > wrote in message
ups.com...
> Robert Morein wrote:
> > "John Atkinson" > wrote in message
> > oups.com...
> > > Hmm, by "bass anomaly," do you mean a premature rolloff of low
> > > frequencies? This would occur if the Adcom had a capacitor-
> > > coupled output, which would result in an increase in source
> > > impedance at low frequencies if your power amplifier itself
> > > has a low input impedance. Do you recall what that was, Bob?.
> > >
> > I noticed what appeared to be a plumped up bass, around 30-40 Hz,
> > with diminished extreme low frequency extension. A possibly
> > pleasing, but inaccurate rendition.
>
> Now you have me realy puzzled Bob, because I can't think of a
> combination of cable reactance and source/load impedances that
> would give you a boost in bass. Doesn't mean you didn't hear
> what you heard, of course.
>
> > The amplifier is an Acoustat TNT-200, with unbalanced FET inputs,
> > and a 47K ohm input impedance.
>
> With Adcom's unbalanced source impedance of 1k, this should not
> have led to any frequency domain problems, even with the Radio
> Shack cables in the lengths you mention.
>
> Did you measure the response hump in the 30-40Hz region or
> was this what you perceived? (It may have been due to some
> other factor than an actual response peak.)
>
I regret my recollections are so inaccurate. There are several
possibilities. Either I heard it, and simply took a guess as to the
frequency, or thought I heard it, clued by something on your graph. I would
characterize it as an unflat tone control, which, of course, the piece does
not have.

But I think your graph unmistakably shows that this preamp does not attempt
to reproduce anything approaching ELF. Many, many pieces do that better.
Actually, something else occurs to me here: perhaps the low frequency
"corner" in the piece causes a phase shift in that region. That would change
the interaction with my sub, which is carefully crossed over in the 30 Hz
region, with the fronts running full range.

> > The GFP-750 also appeared to have a significantly higher level of
> > background hum than the other components in my system. These
> > include a wide variety of older and semi-ancient pieces, some with
> > three wire power connections, some without. Lifting the ground on
> > the GFP-750 did not help.
>
> This was with the unbalanced connection to the TNT amp, right?
> I didn't find any grounding anomalies on our review sample, but
> the problem is that such things are very system and house-wiring
> dependent.

Yes. I would not normally indict the GFP-750, but the system is already such
a melange, without hum loop problems, that circumstantial evidence points
toward it as the malefactor. The outputs are SE or nonsymmetric, no? Such
units are very susceptible to power supply ripple, even if from exogenous
causes.

Sorry you were disappointed in the Adcom -- it was a
> great-sounding preamp at what I felt was a very attractive price.
>
> John Atkinson
> Editor, Stereophile
>
It was offered to me for $350, in 9+ condition, but such were the problems,
I passed.

[[email protected]]

Lionel wrote:
> a =E9crit :
>
> > George "Betty Boop" Middius wrote:
> >
> >>Scottie said to Slut:
> >>
> >>
> >>>Tell me, when you have nothing left but pride...how do you escape
> >
> > arrogance?
> >
> >>You should know this one. Lionella eats Krooger's ****.
>
> Lionel doesn't eat **** George, neither from Krueger nor
> from Atkinson. Can you be so affirmative ?
>
>
If it comes from Atkinson, "George" thinks it's ice cream. ;-)
>
>
> > "George M. Middius is insane." - Lionel Chapuis May 13, 2005
>
> My modesty is suffering... ;-)
>
>
So few words, so much truth! No need for modesty, Lionel.

[Arny Krueger]

John Atkinson wrote:
> Arny Krueger wrote:
>> John Atkinson wrote:
>>> Arny Krueger wrote:

>>>> I probably spent more on audio last year than JA.

>>> If by "JA" you are referring to me, Mr. Krueger, I
>>> fail to see why this matters to you. For what it's
>>> worth, I spent around $5000 on audio components in
>>> the past 12 months. How much did you spend?

>> More.

But not much more.

> Okay. I do note that you say you are including the cost of
> 30 microphones in that total. Is this because you are
> going to try close-miking of the singers in your choral
> recordings?

No, its because I do lots more than merely make choral
recordings. Choral recordings in rooms with good acoustics
are a cake-walk compared to what I do every week.

Making recordings of choirs in good-sounding rooms is a
very refreshing change for me.

Goodness - recording good musicians in a good room. That's
the easy way! ;-)

>You mentioned taking to John Marks in the press
> room at HE2005 and he reported to me that he offered you
> some practical help in dealing with the problematic
acoustics
> of the church in which you make your recordings.

I don't wish to comment on my HE2005 conversations with Mr.
Marks at this time. They constitute a red herring in this
discussion. But, nice try.

[Arny Krueger]

Clyde Slick wrote:
> "John Atkinson" > wrote
in message
>
oups.com...
>>
>> Arny Krueger wrote:
>>> John Atkinson wrote:
>>>> Arny Krueger wrote:
>>>>> I probably spent more on audio last year than JA.
>>>>
>>>> If by "JA" you are referring to me, Mr. Krueger, I
>>>> fail to see why this matters to you. For what it's
>>>> worth, I spent around $5000 on audio components in
>>>> the past 12 months. How much did you spend?
>>>
>>> More.
>>
>> Okay. I do note that you say you are including the cost
of
>> 30 microphones in that total. Is this because you are
>> going to try close-miking of the singers in your choral
>> recordings? You mentioned taking to John Marks in the
press
>> room at HE2005 and he reported to me that he offered you
>> some practical help in dealing with the problematic
acoustics
>> of the church in which you make your recordings.

> but did he address the problematic musical director of the
choir?

He don't work here no more. He was a good guy, but he was a
victim of a corrupt system.

To your way of thinking Art, in order to be sucessful I need
to fix the system, fix the people, fix the room, and fix
myself.

It appears that I vaulted a significant hurdle this weekend.
Praise the Lord!

[Surf]

Dickie Malesweski kisses Lionel's butt:

> So few words, so much truth! No need for modesty, Lionel.
> togezzer, we weel fite ze gud battelle against ze bed amairicain
> to ze end, mon amee!

[Surf]

"Lionel" > wrote

> Lionel doesn't eat **** George, neither from Krueger nor from Atkinson.
> Can you be so affirmative ?

You don't know enough about dick Malesweski
or Arny.
You only know that you all hate George.
You laugh and banter with them.
That smells like ****.

[Lionel]

Silver Surfer has George pubic hair on the tongue :

>>togezzer, we weel fite ze gud battelle against ze bed amairicain
>>to ze end, mon amee!

To bad that you have definitively renounced to Zenn-La.
Shalla-Bal is still waiting for you Silver Surfer.

;-)

[Lionel]

Surf a écrit :
> "Lionel" > wrote
>
>
>>Lionel doesn't eat **** George, neither from Krueger nor from Atkinson.
>>Can you be so affirmative ?
>
>
> You don't know enough about dick Malesweski
> or Arny.

You are right I don't know any Dick Maleswski.

> You only know that you all hate George.

LOL !
How to hate George, eh Surfer ?
Hate involves titanic sentiments and emotions.
George is an insignificant little thing who regularly soil
this NG with his nauseating comments.

From an emotional and behavioristic point of views George
M. Middius is a preadolescent.
Did you ever hate a preadolescent Surfer ?

> You laugh and banter with them.

Sometime.

> That smells like ****.

This remember me Middius scatologic delirium (see above).

[Lionel]

Annihilate by the dolor Silver Surfer wrote :

> "Lionel" > wrote
>
>>You are right I don't know any Dick Maleswski.
>
>
> oh -ze emailles privatt!

Can you please rid of George's pubic hair that you have on
the tongue.

> if torrie****s told you he wasn't DM, he's lying to you.
> quelle supris! he's used other people here when
> it suited his interest.

Except (long time ago) 3 from Dave Weil and one from Art
Sackman I've *never* received any private mails from any RAO
regular or occasional contributors.

Bad start for you Surfer.

>>>You only know that you all hate George.
>>
>>LOL !
>>How to hate George, eh Surfer ?
>>Hate involves titanic sentiments and emotions.
>>George is an insignificant little thing who regularly soil this NG with
>>his nauseating comments.
>>From an emotional and behavioristic point of views George M. Middius is a
>>preadolescent.
>
>
> ok - so it's not hate. it's obsession.

Ok, you was wrong

> George is an
> isignificant little thing that has you all obsessed with him.

Obsessed ? No ! Really no ! If George leave RAO for an other
NG I will *never* follow him sure !
You was wrong for hate, you are also wrong for obsession.

> From an emotional and behavioristic point of views
> your two new boyfriends are adolescent.


I haven't any boyfriends on RAO nor in my private or
professional life.
RAO is my prefered virtual bistrot.

A ta santé, Surfer !

> They also have something else in common. They're both cowardly.
> They say and do things on this newsgroup they would
> never do face to face. In fact, torrie****s modified his
> behavior when we found out where he lives and who
> he cares about. He used to demonstrate the worst kind
> of internet behavior until he feared we could do the same
> to him.

It's your problem not mine.

> and Arny demonstrated for all to see his
> cowardice by his Show performance and subsequent
> internet behavior.

Contrarily to RAO morons' prognostic, Arnold Krueger has
accepted John Atkinson invitation to debate in NY.
John Atkinson hasn't been able to destabilize Arnold Krueger
during the debate, Arnold Krueger has kept his self control,
the JA's great debate was a flop, a non-event... End of the
story.

Back on RAO the discussion has been corrupted by RAO
permanent busybodies : Middius, Sackman, Weil, you...


>>>That smells like ****.
>>
>>This remember me Middius scatologic delirium...
>
>
> hopefully, when Dickie is kissing your butt, it is
> early in the week.

Nobody has never kissed my butt, can you be so affirmative ?

[Mr. Anderson]

lee-oh-nelle a ecrit!

zees ees so because I say eet eez so!
zat eez not true because I say eet eez not true!
I am not zee homo. you are zee homo!
can you affirmate zee same sing? ah ha! eh he!
zerefore, I ween, you looze!

[Lionel]

In . com>, Mr. Anderson
wrote :

> lee-oh-nelle a ecrit!
>
> zees ees so because I say eet eez so!
> zat eez not true because I say eet eez not true!
> I am not zee homo. you are zee homo!
> can you affirmate zee same sing? ah ha! eh he!
> zerefore, I ween, you looze!

Does Mrs Anderson knows that you also a George's pubic hair on the tongue ?

;-)

[Lionel]

In . com>, Mr. Anderson
wrote :

> lee-oh-nelle a ecrit!
>
> zees ees so because I say eet eez so!
> zat eez not true because I say eet eez not true!
> I am not zee homo. you are zee homo!
> can you affirmate zee same sing? ah ha! eh he!
> zerefore, I ween, you looze!

Does Mrs Anderson knows that you also have a George's pubic hair on the
tongue ?

;-)

[jclause]

In article >,
says...
>
>In . com>, Mr. Anderson
>wrote :
>
>> lee-oh-nelle a ecrit!
>>
>> zees ees so because I say eet eez so!
>> zat eez not true because I say eet eez not true!
>> I am not zee homo. you are zee homo!
>> can you affirmate zee same sing? ah ha! eh he!
>> zerefore, I ween, you looze!
>
>Does Mrs Anderson knows that you also have a George's pubic hair on the
>tongue ?
>
>;-)


He has a pubic hair on his tongue?
Didn't nothin' take place with the bung?
You think that could be
That he made a plea?
'Cause George is too well hung?

Hammingaway

[[email protected]]

jclause wrote:
> In article >,

> says...
> >
> >In . com>, Mr.
Anderson
> >wrote :
> >
> >> lee-oh-nelle a ecrit!
> >>
> >> zees ees so because I say eet eez so!
> >> zat eez not true because I say eet eez not true!
> >> I am not zee homo. you are zee homo!
> >> can you affirmate zee same sing? ah ha! eh he!
> >> zerefore, I ween, you looze!
> >
> >Does Mrs Anderson knows that you also have a George's pubic hair on
the
> >tongue ?
> >
> >;-)
>
>
> He has a pubic hair on his tongue?
> Didn't nothin' take place with the bung?
> You think that could be
> That he made a plea?
> 'Cause George is too well hung?
>
> Hammingaway
>
>
"George" is a catcher, not a pitcher. ;-)

[Surf]

"Lionel" > wrote
>
> George's pubic hair !
> George's pubic hair !
> George's pubic hair !
> George's pubic hair !

squeak all you want, obsessed one.
your actions speak louder than words.
I think you LOVE George.

[Clyde Slick]

"Surf" > wrote in message
...
> "Lionel" > wrote
>>
>>
>> This remember me Middius scatologic delirium...
>
> hopefully, when Dickie is kissing your butt, it is
> early in the week.

Lionel eats chile on Thursdays.



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[Lionel]

In >, Surf wrote :

> "Lionel" > wrote
>>
>> George's pubic hair !
>> George's pubic hair !
>> George's pubic hair !
>> George's pubic hair !
>
> squeak all you want, obsessed one.
> your actions speak louder than words.
> I think you LOVE George.

As much as you love Richard M....

:-D

[Howard Ferstler]

Arny Krueger wrote:
>
> Howard Ferstler wrote:
> > Arny Krueger wrote:
> >>
> >> John Atkinson wrote:
> >>> Arny Krueger wrote:
> >>>> I probably spent more on audio last year than JA.
> >>>
> >>> If by "JA" you are referring to me, Mr. Krueger, I
> >>> fail to see why this matters to you. For what it's
> >>> worth, I spent around $5000 on audio components in
> >>> the past 12 months. How much did you spend?
> >>
> >> More.
> >
> > Yoiks! I hope you got your money's worth. My guess is that
> > much of what you spent was for test and evaluation gear
> and
> > not on exotic amps, wires, and speakers that did not gain
> > you all that much additional quality.
> >
> > Am I correct?

> Close, but no cigar. It was mostly spent on microphones, mic
> stands, mic cables, mic preamps, power amps, speaker
> drivers, and equalizers. For example, in the past year I
> bought about 30 microphones.

Impressive. Keep up the good work.

Howard Ferstler

[Surf]

"Howard Ferstler" > wrote
>
> Impressive. Keep up the good work.
>
> Howard Ferstler


Are you astonished, Arny, by the number of people
that want to kiss your butt?

[George M. Middius]

Brother Horace the Faithful said:

> > For example, in the past year I
> > bought about 30 microphones.

> Impressive. Keep up the good work.

Yes indeed. Harold, I'm sure you've noticed how Arnii frequently refers to
himself as "we". What do you think those microphones are for?

[Arny Krueger]

"George M. Middius" > wrote in
message ...
>
>
> Brother Horace the Faithful said:
>
> > > For example, in the past year I
> > > bought about 30 microphones.
>
> > Impressive. Keep up the good work.
>
> Yes indeed. Harold, I'm sure you've noticed how Arnii
frequently refers to
> himself as "we".

I don't refer to myself as "we", except in error. When I
refer to "we" I am typically referring to a group, such as a
group of friends or business partners.

>What do you think those microphones are for?

Sound reinforcement and making recordings of music.

[George Middius]

The Krooborg tries some damage control.

>> Yes indeed. Harold, I'm sure you've noticed how Arnii frequently refers to
>> himself as "we".

>I don't refer to myself as "we", except in error.

That's quite an admission, coming from you. Error, Arnii? Doesn't that clash
with your delusion that you "have never lost a debate on Usenet"?

>When I refer to "we" I am typically referring to a group, such as a
>group of friends or business partners.

The delusional plot thickens. I wonder if these individuals are anything like
your little cheering section on RAO. Any wife-beaters like Slut, or
daddy-murderers like Thing? How about drug addicts like Mickey McMickey? Or
maybe you have more friends like Tommi "who needs an erection 'cause I got a
Corvette" Nousiane. "Business partners", Arnii? Do you need help whoring out
your poor wife for fivers in the alley?


>>What do you think those microphones are for?

>Sound reinforcement and making recordings of music.

Silly 'borg, microphones are for people. Hey, why don't you post a picture of
you and your "business partners" with all those microphones in an array™?