It's sad

[Ole Johansen]

Hello All,

I joined this group a few weeks ago. Reading different topics I clearly see
that there's a lot of people around here that know a lot about Audio. (and
that's why most of us are here... Right?????)

I must say that It's saddening to see how a few people on here are able to
destroy what should and could be a great forum and a great source of
information. And I'm not just talking of those that spread lies and crap.
I'm also talking of those who constantly have to attack the liars.

If one person puts out a lie there's 20 people joining in to slam the liar.
Don't people see that it's destroying this forum? If no one bothers to reply
to the few liars then they might just shut up or even leave.

Some people are here just to mess with your head and to generally spread
S**T..... And you're letting it get to you...... If some of us step up to
the "higher ground" others might follow and the low lives can stay where
they are alone........


Just a thought....


Ole
Bergen, Norway

[[email protected]]

Ole Johansen wrote:
> Hello All,
>
> I joined this group a few weeks ago. Reading different topics I
clearly see
> that there's a lot of people around here that know a lot about Audio.
(and
> that's why most of us are here... Right?????)
>
> I must say that It's saddening to see how a few people on here are
able to
> destroy what should and could be a great forum and a great source of
> information. And I'm not just talking of those that spread lies and
crap.
> I'm also talking of those who constantly have to attack the liars.
>
> If one person puts out a lie there's 20 people joining in to slam the
liar.
> Don't people see that it's destroying this forum? If no one bothers
to reply
> to the few liars then they might just shut up or even leave.
>
> Some people are here just to mess with your head and to generally
spread
> S**T..... And you're letting it get to you...... If some of us step
up to
> the "higher ground" others might follow and the low lives can stay
where
> they are alone........
>
>
> Just a thought....
>
>
> Ole
> Bergen, Norway

Try this forum. http://www.stevehoffman.tv/ I think it will cheer you
up.

[Trevor Wilson]

"Ole Johansen" > wrote in message
...
> Hello All,
>
> I joined this group a few weeks ago. Reading different topics I clearly
> see
> that there's a lot of people around here that know a lot about Audio. (and
> that's why most of us are here... Right?????)

**No.

>
> I must say that It's saddening to see how a few people on here are able to
> destroy what should and could be a great forum and a great source of
> information. And I'm not just talking of those that spread lies and crap.
> I'm also talking of those who constantly have to attack the liars.

**Sad, perhaps, but that is part of the game.

>
> If one person puts out a lie there's 20 people joining in to slam the
> liar.
> Don't people see that it's destroying this forum? If no one bothers to
> reply
> to the few liars then they might just shut up or even leave.

**Destroying the forum? You're kidding, right? This forum has been thriving
for years. Rumours of it's demise have been circulating for a long time.

>
> Some people are here just to mess with your head and to generally spread
> S**T..... And you're letting it get to you...... If some of us step up to
> the "higher ground" others might follow and the low lives can stay where
> they are alone........

**This is RAO. You can say "****", if you wish.

>
>
> Just a thought....
>
>
> Ole
> Bergen, Norway


--
Trevor Wilson
www.rageaudio.com.au

[Lionel]

Ole Johansen a écrit :
> Hello All,
>
> I joined this group a few weeks ago. Reading different topics I clearly see
> that there's a lot of people around here that know a lot about Audio. (and
> that's why most of us are here... Right?????)
>
> I must say that It's saddening to see how a few people on here are able to
> destroy what should and could be a great forum and a great source of
> information. And I'm not just talking of those that spread lies and crap.
> I'm also talking of those who constantly have to attack the liars.
>
> If one person puts out a lie there's 20 people joining in to slam the liar.
> Don't people see that it's destroying this forum?

You got it wrong here Ole, this is not a "simple" forum. This is a
whisky bar where people from audio but also from other disciplines are
coming to get drunk.
Can you guarantee zero mess, zero donnybrook in a whisky bar ?
....So is RAO.

Don't have any regret since most of the people with an interesting audio
knowledge are also posting on others forums. Make a google search by
people name (or nickname)

> If no one bothers to reply
> to the few liars then they might just shut up or even leave.
>
> Some people are here just to mess with your head and to generally spread
> S**T..... And you're letting it get to you...... If some of us step up to
> the "higher ground" others might follow and the low lives can stay where
> they are alone........
>
>
> Just a thought....

A pious thought, thank you for it.

Lionel
Saint-Etienne, France

[Mark A]

"Ole Johansen" > wrote in message
...
> Hello All,
>
> I joined this group a few weeks ago. Reading different topics I clearly
see
> that there's a lot of people around here that know a lot about Audio. (and
> that's why most of us are here... Right?????)
>
> I must say that It's saddening to see how a few people on here are able to
> destroy what should and could be a great forum and a great source of
> information. And I'm not just talking of those that spread lies and crap.
> I'm also talking of those who constantly have to attack the liars.
>
> If one person puts out a lie there's 20 people joining in to slam the
liar.
> Don't people see that it's destroying this forum? If no one bothers to
reply
> to the few liars then they might just shut up or even leave.
>
> Some people are here just to mess with your head and to generally spread
> S**T..... And you're letting it get to you...... If some of us step up to
> the "higher ground" others might follow and the low lives can stay where
> they are alone........
>
>
> Just a thought....
>
>
> Ole
> Bergen, Norway
>
This group is nothing but a shell of it former self. These people are wimps
compared to before. A few years ago this group was for real men only.

At least one person died of heart attack (or stroke) because of the
viciousness of this forum just a few years ago.

Try rec.audio.misc

[Arny Krueger]

"Mark A" > wrote in message


> This group is nothing but a shell of it former self. These people are
> wimps compared to before. A few years ago this group was for real men
> only.

Agreed. Then came Middius and his scorched-earth policy. His basic plan
seems to be that if he can't chase the people he doesn't like off, he'll
spol the whole place for everybody.

> At least one person died of heart attack (or stroke) because of the
> viciousness of this forum just a few years ago.

Perhaps.

> Try rec.audio.misc

Good idea. Most of the people who post here about audio, also post on one or
more audio groups elsewhere in Usenet.

For example Trevor is a good guy, and posts on aus.hi-fi.

I post on rec.audio.tech and rec,audio.pro among other places.

[Lionel]

Mark A a écrit :

> This group is nothing but a shell of it former self. These people are wimps
> compared to before. A few years ago this group was for real men only.

Have you noted that for most the veterans the "war" they have done is
often the *worst* of all. ;-)

> At least one person died of heart attack (or stroke) because of the
> viciousness of this forum just a few years ago.

Are you pretending that he was drinking to forget RAO ?

> Try rec.audio.misc
>
>

[Schizoid Man]

"Ole Johansen" > wrote in message

> Just a thought....
>
>
> Ole
> Bergen, Norway

You're from Norway? That is rather sad.

[Robert Morein]

"Ole Johansen" > wrote in message
...
> Hello All,
>
> I joined this group a few weeks ago. Reading different topics I clearly
see
> that there's a lot of people around here that know a lot about Audio. (and
> that's why most of us are here... Right?????)
>
> I must say that It's saddening to see how a few people on here are able to
> destroy what should and could be a great forum and a great source of
> information. And I'm not just talking of those that spread lies and crap.
> I'm also talking of those who constantly have to attack the liars.
>
And who are you to talk? We all know Willy the Killer Whale was murdered.



That's the reason for the coming Battle by Proxy, near, but not in, Madison
Square Garden.
Each Nation of thought shall have it's gladiator.
Each Nation shall have it's day.
And who shall carry the field?

Lord Atkinson, Lord of All Highdom, or
Arny Krueger, Teutonic Knight?

Or maybe some Norwegian with an air powered harpoon gun will finish them
both off.

[Marc Phillips]

Arny said:

>Then came Middius and his scorched-earth policy.

Wow. I haven't heard you use this term since The Tape.

Boon

[Lionel]

Marc Phillips a écrit :
> Arny said:
>
>
>>Then came Middius and his scorched-earth policy.
>
>
> Wow. I haven't heard you use this term since The Tape.

Are you also one of those fetichists who jealously keeps a recording of
Arnold's voice ?
Ask Dave Weil he has 120 Go HD full of backuped messages...
Note that I am nearly sure that Middius is sleeping on one of Krueger's
robbed underwear.

You should get in contact with them to be able to complete your collection.

;-)

[mick]

On Thu, 03 Feb 2005 00:24:21 +0100, Ole Johansen wrote:

<snip>
>
> Some people are here just to mess with your head and to generally spread
> S**T..... And you're letting it get to you...... If some of us step up to
> the "higher ground" others might follow and the low lives can stay where
> they are alone........
>
<snip>

Ah, but are you in the right group for information Ole? rec.audio.opinion
is the hunting ground of opinionated people. It has *nothing* to do with
truth, accuracy or facts - just opinions. Relax, enjoy it - spread some
lies and have fun!
:-)

Why do 6" parasitic-coned 1960s vintage speakers sound unusually good
mounted in cardboard boxes? I only wanted a couple of dummy loads... lol!

--
Mick
(no M$ software on here... :-) )
Web: http://www.nascom.info
Web: http://projectedsound.tk

[JBorg]

>Ole Johansen wrote
>
>
>
>
> Hello All,
>
> I joined this group a few weeks ago. Reading different topics I clearly see
> that there's a lot of people around here that know a lot about Audio. (and
> that's why most of us are here... Right?????)
>
> I must say that It's saddening to see how a few people on here are able to
> destroy what should and could be a great forum and a great source of
> information. And I'm not just talking of those that spread lies and crap.
> I'm also talking of those who constantly have to attack the liars.
>
> If one person puts out a lie there's 20 people joining in to slam the liar.
> Don't people see that it's destroying this forum? If no one bothers to reply
> to the few liars then they might just shut up or even leave.
>
> Some people are here just to mess with your head and to generally spread
> S**T..... And you're letting it get to you...... If some of us step up to
> the "higher ground" others might follow and the low lives can stay where
> they are alone........
>
>
> Just a thought....
>
>
> Ole
> Bergen, Norway



Ole, I empathize with your sentiment. I feel your sadness and feelings of
despair.

The confounding problem this group has is Krooger and his ilk. It seem that
no matter how the seasoned Rao'ers obliterate the bony spaces inside
their skull everyday, they keep coming back wanting for more the next day.


That's bewildering !

[Lionel]

JBorg a écrit :
>>Ole Johansen wrote
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>Hello All,
>>
>>I joined this group a few weeks ago. Reading different topics I clearly see
>>that there's a lot of people around here that know a lot about Audio. (and
>>that's why most of us are here... Right?????)
>>
>>I must say that It's saddening to see how a few people on here are able to
>>destroy what should and could be a great forum and a great source of
>>information. And I'm not just talking of those that spread lies and crap.
>>I'm also talking of those who constantly have to attack the liars.
>>
>>If one person puts out a lie there's 20 people joining in to slam the liar.
>>Don't people see that it's destroying this forum? If no one bothers to reply
>>to the few liars then they might just shut up or even leave.
>>
>>Some people are here just to mess with your head and to generally spread
>>S**T..... And you're letting it get to you...... If some of us step up to
>>the "higher ground" others might follow and the low lives can stay where
>>they are alone........
>>
>>
>>Just a thought....
>>
>>
>>Ole
>>Bergen, Norway
>
>
>
>
> Ole, I empathize with your sentiment. I feel your sadness and feelings of
> despair.
>
> The confounding problem this group has is Krooger and his ilk. It seem that
> no matter how the seasoned Rao'ers obliterate the bony spaces inside
> their skull everyday, they keep coming back wanting for more the next day.


Are you trying to justify your continous presence here, J. ?


> That's bewildering !

Yes it is. I've never read such frank confession on RAO.
Congratulation Borg. :-D

[JBorg]

> Lionel wrote
>> JBorg a écrit :
>>>Ole Johansen wrote
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> Ole, I empathize with your sentiment. I feel your sadness and feelings of
>> despair.
>>
>> The confounding problem this group has is Krooger and his ilk. It seem
>> that
>> no matter how the seasoned Rao'ers obliterate the bony spaces inside
>> their skull everyday, they keep coming back wanting for more the next day.
>
>
> Are you trying to justify your continous presence here, J. ?

No, not me. It's Ole,.. to him. I'm telling him why Krooger & Co. continue
to justify their types here.


>> That's bewildering !
>
>
> Yes it is. I've never read such frank confession on RAO.
> Congratulation Borg. :-D


Tell me about your favorite audio tweaks.

[Lionel]

JBorg a écrit :
>>Lionel wrote
>>
>>>JBorg a écrit :
>>>
>>>>Ole Johansen wrote
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>Ole, I empathize with your sentiment. I feel your sadness and feelings of
>>>despair.
>>>
>>>The confounding problem this group has is Krooger and his ilk. It seem
>>>that
>>>no matter how the seasoned Rao'ers obliterate the bony spaces inside
>>>their skull everyday, they keep coming back wanting for more the next day.
>>
>>
>>Are you trying to justify your continous presence here, J. ?
>
>
> No, not me. It's Ole,.. to him. I'm telling him why Krooger & Co. continue
> to justify their types here.
>
>
>
>>>That's bewildering !
>>
>>
>>Yes it is. I've never read such frank confession on RAO.
>>Congratulation Borg. :-D
>
>
>
> Tell me about your favorite audio tweaks.

Two (never more) glasses of a good wine, quietness and good music.

Note that in the end such drastic conditions are really more expensive
than the most expensive cable or ShaktiStonian gadget... ;-)

[Fella]

Lionel wrote:

> ShaktiStonian gadget... ;-)


What's a shaktistonian gadget? Did you ever try one or hear one?

NOTE: No Mickmikey! That question was NOT for you! We all know that you
have listened to all different models of Sonus Fabers, for instance, and
that they are below average just-good-looks speakers and that you can or
anyone with a dynaudio tweeter can make a copy of them. We also KNOW
that you have tried a shakti stone, or been somewhere where they were
tried and that you are sure that they have no effect at all and that you
are sure that they are completely useless audio snake oil. The same goes
for you too, you terrorist!


Ok, Lionel, tell us, did you EVER try out a shakti stone?

[Lionel]

Fella a écrit :
> Lionel wrote:
>
>> ShaktiStonian gadget... ;-)
>
>
>
> What's a shaktistonian gadget? Did you ever try one or hear one?
>
> NOTE: No Mickmikey! That question was NOT for you! We all know that you
> have listened to all different models of Sonus Fabers, for instance, and
> that they are below average just-good-looks speakers and that you can or
> anyone with a dynaudio tweeter can make a copy of them. We also KNOW
> that you have tried a shakti stone, or been somewhere where they were
> tried and that you are sure that they have no effect at all and that you
> are sure that they are completely useless audio snake oil. The same goes
> for you too, you terrorist!
>
>
> Ok, Lionel, tell us, did you EVER try out a shakti stone?

No I use to be "Stone free"... ;-)

Anyway you shouldn't jump on the subject like an hysteric, Fella, 'cause
I didn't wrote that Shakti Stone doesn't work it can only confirm you
that I really don't care if it works or not.
I have written that after a while *my* "audio tweaks" are more expensive
than a Shakti Stone.

BTW, have you already tested *my* audio tweaks ?

[Lionel]

Lionel a écrit :
> Fella a écrit :
>
>> Lionel wrote:
>>
>>> ShaktiStonian gadget... ;-)
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> What's a shaktistonian gadget? Did you ever try one or hear one?
>>
>> NOTE: No Mickmikey! That question was NOT for you! We all know that
>> you have listened to all different models of Sonus Fabers, for
>> instance, and that they are below average just-good-looks speakers and
>> that you can or anyone with a dynaudio tweeter can make a copy of
>> them. We also KNOW that you have tried a shakti stone, or been
>> somewhere where they were tried and that you are sure that they have
>> no effect at all and that you are sure that they are completely
>> useless audio snake oil. The same goes for you too, you terrorist!
>>
>>
>> Ok, Lionel, tell us, did you EVER try out a shakti stone?
>
>
> No I use to be "Stone free"... ;-)
>
> Anyway you shouldn't jump on the subject like an hysteric, Fella, 'cause
> I didn't wrote that Shakti Stone doesn't work it can only confirm you
> that I really don't care if it works or not.
> I have written that after a while *my* "audio tweaks" are more expensive
> than a Shakti Stone.
>
> BTW, have you already tested *my* audio tweaks ?


Ooops, should read "I can only confirmyou...". Sorry.

[Fella]

Lionel wrote:

> Fella a écrit :
>
>> Lionel wrote:
>>
>>> ShaktiStonian gadget... ;-)
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> What's a shaktistonian gadget? Did you ever try one or hear one?
>>
>> NOTE: No Mickmikey! That question was NOT for you! We all know that
>> you have listened to all different models of Sonus Fabers, for
>> instance, and that they are below average just-good-looks speakers and
>> that you can or anyone with a dynaudio tweeter can make a copy of
>> them. We also KNOW that you have tried a shakti stone, or been
>> somewhere where they were tried and that you are sure that they have
>> no effect at all and that you are sure that they are completely
>> useless audio snake oil. The same goes for you too, you terrorist!
>>
>>
>> Ok, Lionel, tell us, did you EVER try out a shakti stone?
>
>
> No I use to be "Stone free"... ;-)

Noted, something or other. :)

>
> Anyway you shouldn't jump on the subject like an hysteric,

I axed you a queschin. Where's them hysterics? How was I all hysteric? I
just wanted to keep the opinionated borgs out with the NOTE: section as
I know, you know, we know what they think now, and in the future about
the shakti stones.

> Fella, 'cause
> I didn't wrote that Shakti Stone doesn't work

I didn't say that you did? This neing rec.audio.opinion, I thought I
could ask your OPINION as to what they are (you can't get them for an
audition here in Finland), that's it.


>
> BTW, have you already tested *my* audio tweaks ?

You mean the wine bit, yes. But not with french wine (assuming that
being french, you consume french wine).

[dave weil]

On Fri, 04 Feb 2005 13:47:03 +0100, Lionel >
wrote:

>> Tell me about your favorite audio tweaks.
>
>Two (never more) glasses of a good wine, quietness and good music.

Of course tempered by constant visits to RAO. That's the most
important part, don't ya know. Can't listen to a couple of songs
without spewing a littl bile...in fact, the sweeter the music, the
blacker the bile.

[dave weil]

On Fri, 04 Feb 2005 14:02:16 +0100, Lionel >
wrote:

>Ooops, should read "I can only confirmyou...". Sorry.

<s******>

[Lionel]

Fella a écrit :
> Lionel wrote:
>
>> Fella a écrit :
>>
>>> Lionel wrote:
>>>
>>>> ShaktiStonian gadget... ;-)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> What's a shaktistonian gadget? Did you ever try one or hear one?
>>>
>>> NOTE: No Mickmikey! That question was NOT for you! We all know that
>>> you have listened to all different models of Sonus Fabers, for
>>> instance, and that they are below average just-good-looks speakers
>>> and that you can or anyone with a dynaudio tweeter can make a copy of
>>> them. We also KNOW that you have tried a shakti stone, or been
>>> somewhere where they were tried and that you are sure that they have
>>> no effect at all and that you are sure that they are completely
>>> useless audio snake oil. The same goes for you too, you terrorist!
>>>
>>>
>>> Ok, Lionel, tell us, did you EVER try out a shakti stone?
>>
>>
>>
>> No I use to be "Stone free"... ;-)
>
>
> Noted, something or other. :)
>
>>
>> Anyway you shouldn't jump on the subject like an hysteric,
>
>
> I axed you a queschin. Where's them hysterics? How was I all hysteric? I
> just wanted to keep the opinionated borgs out with the NOTE: section as
> I know, you know, we know what they think now, and in the future about
> the shakti stones.

Sorry, for the word "hysteric". I haven't understood the "note" section.

>
>> Fella, 'cause I didn't wrote that Shakti Stone doesn't work
>
>
> I didn't say that you did? This neing rec.audio.opinion, I thought I
> could ask your OPINION as to what they are (you can't get them for an
> audition here in Finland), that's it.

So my point is that Shakti Stone is an expensive device.
Considering my financial possibilities Shakti Stone isn't *for me* an
interesting field of investigation for my pleasure improvement.

In other words I have many other things to test before to go to Shakti
stone.

>> BTW, have you already tested *my* audio tweaks ?
>
>
> You mean the wine bit, yes. But not with french wine (assuming that
> being french, you consume french wine).

Mostly. First because wine is everywhere here and not expensive and
secondly because I'm a little bit... chauvinist. ;-)

[Lionel]

dave weil a écrit :
> On Fri, 04 Feb 2005 13:47:03 +0100, Lionel >
> wrote:
>
>
>>>Tell me about your favorite audio tweaks.
>>
>>Two (never more) glasses of a good wine, quietness and good music.
>
>
> Of course tempered by constant visits to RAO. That's the most
> important part, don't ya know. Can't listen to a couple of songs
> without spewing a littl bile...in fact, the sweeter the music, the
> blacker the bile.

LOL !
Better read that than being blind.

[Lionel]

dave weil a écrit :
> On Fri, 04 Feb 2005 14:02:16 +0100, Lionel >
> wrote:
>
>
>>Ooops, should read "I can only confirmyou...". Sorry.
>
>
> <s******>

From you to me coming from a purist and aesthete like you it's a little
bit lame.
Don't you thing so ?

What's wrong with you Dave ?
Seems to me that you are looking for food in the trash can now. Eh ?

[Fella]

Lionel wrote:

>
> So my point is that Shakti Stone is an expensive device.


Ok, I am actually in the process of getting some of the stuff for
*audition* and I thought that you had experience with them.

NOTE: Yes, with the ****borg, the terrorist, etc, being all so strictly
agaisnt the stone I thought that I would give them a listen, if they are
what some people praise them to be and they increase my audio enjoyment,
I will be thanking them. :)

[Lionel]

Fella a écrit :
> Lionel wrote:
>
>>
>> So my point is that Shakti Stone is an expensive device.
>
>
>
> Ok, I am actually in the process of getting some of the stuff for
> *audition* and I thought that you had experience with them.
>
> NOTE: Yes, with the ****borg, the terrorist, etc, being all so strictly
> agaisnt the stone I thought that I would give them a listen, if they are
> what some people praise them to be and they increase my audio enjoyment,
> I will be thanking them. :)

I cannot do anything than approve you Fella.
You have the courage to investigate from this point it can a success or
it can be a failure.
If we omit the financial/material engagement and point of view that's
mean that it will be a inevitably success for you.

If you want to share your impressions they will be welcome.

[Lionel]

Fella a écrit :
> Lionel wrote:
>
>>
>> So my point is that Shakti Stone is an expensive device.
>
>
>
> Ok, I am actually in the process of getting some of the stuff for
> *audition* and I thought that you had experience with them.
>
> NOTE: Yes, with the ****borg, the terrorist, etc, being all so strictly
> agaisnt the stone I thought that I would give them a listen, if they are
> what some people praise them to be and they increase my audio enjoyment,
> I will be thanking them. :)

I cannot do anything than approve you Fella.
You have the needed *determination* to investigate, so do it with my
encouragements.
The result can be exiting or disappointing. If we omit the
financial/material engagement this will be inevitably a success for you.

If you want to share your impressions they will be welcome.

[dave weil]

On Fri, 04 Feb 2005 14:41:50 +0100, Lionel >
wrote:

>dave weil a écrit :
>> On Fri, 04 Feb 2005 14:02:16 +0100, Lionel >
>> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Ooops, should read "I can only confirmyou...". Sorry.
>>
>>
>> <s******>
>
> From you to me coming from a purist and aesthete like you it's a little
>bit lame.
>Don't you thing so ?

I agree that you would probably find it lame. So?

>What's wrong with you Dave ?

Look at yourself before you ask someone that question.

I don't think that there's anything wrong with having a chuckle over a
correction ended up not being a correction after all.

>Seems to me that you are looking for food in the trash can now. Eh ?

No, actually I'm sipping coffee right now. Not that fancy stuff but
The People's Coffee.

[Fella]

Lionel wrote:


> You have the needed *determination* to investigate, so do it with my
> encouragements.

Well thank you Lionel there, ol'boy. The ****borg, and the Thing
terrorist bit was a bit of a joke, and mickmickey is a joke from top to
bottom! :) .. actually whatever opinion they might have on anything
would not effect my preconceptions or sway me in any way. :)

But I am just wondering that are the claims of shakti stuff being used
in some studios, etc, true?

> The result can be exiting or disappointing. If we omit the
> financial/material engagement

Yeah. But I look at it as a hobby. I work hard and earn good money. I
rarely drink, I don't gamble, I don't like going to the movies where
americans are exploding this and that and shooting at each other, I
don't cheat on my wife with whores or otherwise, I don't wear expensive
clothes, I don't have a yacht, or a too expensive, fast car, the list
goes on.. All I do is travel and have this stinking meesly hobby, so I
feel free to indulge in it. :)


>
> If you want to share your impressions they will be welcome.

The package is on it's way. :) As soon as I've auditioned them I will
write my impressions here. And if they are clear performers, and then
some... :)

[Sander deWaal]

Lionel > said:

>> Tell me about your favorite audio tweaks.

>Two (never more) glasses of a good wine, quietness and good music.

>Note that in the end such drastic conditions are really more expensive
>than the most expensive cable or ShaktiStonian gadget... ;-)


Glad I don't drink.

Note to Arny: I'm off the pot for some years as well.

Guess I'll have to allow myself some Shakti stones ;-)

--
Sander de Waal
" SOA of a KT88? Sufficient. "

[Sander deWaal]

Fella > said:

>> So my point is that Shakti Stone is an expensive device.

>Ok, I am actually in the process of getting some of the stuff for
>*audition* and I thought that you had experience with them.

>NOTE: Yes, with the ****borg, the terrorist, etc, being all so strictly
>agaisnt the stone I thought that I would give them a listen, if they are
>what some people praise them to be and they increase my audio enjoyment,
>I will be thanking them. :)


I was just wondering: will kidney stones work as well?
If so, here's a cheap way out for us tweakos with health problems ;-)

--
Sander de Waal
" SOA of a KT88? Sufficient. "

[Sander deWaal]

George M. Middius > said:

>> I was just wondering: will kidney stones work as well?
>> If so, here's a cheap way out for us tweakos with health problems ;-)

>If cheapness is the answer, you could try petrifying some of Krooger's TV
>dinners. ;-(


If that worked, we would have already heard about it, don't you think?

OTOH, some obsolete soundcards on stands behind your speakers....

--
Sander de Waal
" SOA of a KT88? Sufficient. "

[Sander deWaal]

George M. Middius > said:

>> >If cheapness is the answer, you could try petrifying some of Krooger's TV
>> >dinners. ;-(

>> If that worked, we would have already heard about it, don't you think?

>Thank's for admoittong Mr. Dweall that you think you already know what
>hasn't been proove'd yet. Got any facts, or would you like one of my $1000
>scicccneece check's?


Absolute ********!
Your science, Sir, gets throwed out with the bathwater as long as you
haven't DONE THE TEST!
It is well known that the inner ear cavity is not able to properly
recreate the original event in the first place, due to first time
arrival and reflecting clues in any reveberant room notwithstanding
standing waves and acoustical artefacts.
Have you DONE THE TEST?
..
The way the brain processes petrified TV dinners is yet not well known
by any science I know of. IT HAS NEVER BEEN THOROUGHLY TESTED!

DO THE TEST! I DARE YOU! DO THE TEST!


>> OTOH, some obsolete soundcards on stands behind your speakers....

>Mr. Doweal please proove you know what kind of speaker's I have? Your
>knolwege of audio is like frosty flying cat feces. ;-)


You still have not done the test.
DO IT! NOW!
Or cease and desist.

DO THE TEST NOW OR STAND AND DELIVER!

--
Sander de Waal
" SOA of a KT88? Sufficient. "

[Michael McKelvy]

"Fella" > wrote in message
...
> Lionel wrote:
>
>> ShaktiStonian gadget... ;-)
>
>
> What's a shaktistonian gadget? Did you ever try one or hear one?
>
You can't. it's not possible.

> NOTE: No Mickmikey! That question was NOT for you! We all know that you
> have listened to all different models of Sonus Fabers, for instance

No, I've listened to a couple models that I said sounded very nice. I've
also seen the specs on some others that show them to have bloated bss
response, which can be had in speakers that sell for far less.

, and
> that they are below average just-good-looks speakers and that you can or
> anyone with a dynaudio tweeter can make a copy of them.

It would certainly be fun to try.

We also KNOW
> that you have tried a shakti stone, or been somewhere where they were
> tried and that you are sure that they have no effect at all and that you
> are sure that they are completely useless audio snake oil.

I don't need to go anywhere near them, to know they are snake oil.

The same goes
> for you too, you terrorist!
>
>
> Ok, Lionel, tell us, did you EVER try out a shakti stone?

Explain what principle could possibly make one of the stone cause any
audible effect.

[Sander deWaal]

"Michael McKelvy" > said:

<sonus faber>
>No, I've listened to a couple models that I said sounded very nice. I've
>also seen the specs on some others that show them to have bloated bss
>response, which can be had in speakers that sell for far less.


While it has been a while since I heard any SF speaker, I don't recall
them having bloated bass in a normal listening room.

How were those specs measured?
A FR response taken in a dead room doesn't tell that much.


>Explain what principle could possibly make one of the stone cause any
>audible effect.


Psycho-acoustics.

--
Sander de Waal
" SOA of a KT88? Sufficient. "

[Lionel]

dave weil a écrit :
> On Fri, 04 Feb 2005 14:41:50 +0100, Lionel >
> wrote:
>
>
>>dave weil a écrit :
>>
>>>On Fri, 04 Feb 2005 14:02:16 +0100, Lionel >
>>>wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>Ooops, should read "I can only confirmyou...". Sorry.
>>>
>>>
>>><s******>
>>
>>From you to me coming from a purist and aesthete like you it's a little
>>bit lame.
>>Don't you thing so ?
>
>
> I agree that you would probably find it lame. So?

So nothing.

>>What's wrong with you Dave ?
>
>
> Look at yourself before you ask someone that question.
>
> I don't think that there's anything wrong with having a chuckle over a
> correction ended up not being a correction after all.


It wasn't a <chuckle> but a <s******>


>>Seems to me that you are looking for food in the trash can now. Eh ?
>
>
> No, actually I'm sipping coffee right now. Not that fancy stuff but
> The People's Coffee.

Goooooood !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Sipping coffee is a very important moment. Nearly as precious as music
listenin.
Aren't you afraid to spoil your pleasure... :-D

[Lionel]

Fella a écrit :
> Lionel wrote:
>
>
>> You have the needed *determination* to investigate, so do it with my
>> encouragements.
>
>
> Well thank you Lionel there, ol'boy. The ****borg, and the Thing
> terrorist bit was a bit of a joke, and mickmickey is a joke from top to
> bottom! :) .. actually whatever opinion they might have on anything
> would not effect my preconceptions or sway me in any way. :)

Once again I will butcher your post, Fella... Sorry for that

But don't forget that "****borg" and "Mickmickey" also like audio
experimentation. Don't forget thatfor them audio is also a (costly ?) hobby.
Both in different fields than your but it was also experimentations.

I just hope that you will be able to tolerate the critics when you will
report the results of your experimentation. ;-)

[dave weil]

On Fri, 04 Feb 2005 20:15:58 +0100, Lionel >
wrote:

>> I don't think that there's anything wrong with having a chuckle over a
>> correction ended up not being a correction after all.
>
>
>It wasn't a <chuckle> but a <s******>

I'm sorry that it got under your skin.

[mick]

On Fri, 04 Feb 2005 16:38:45 +0100, Sander deWaal wrote:

> Lionel > said:
>
>>> Tell me about your favorite audio tweaks.
>
>>Two (never more) glasses of a good wine, quietness and good music.
>
>>Note that in the end such drastic conditions are really more expensive
>>than the most expensive cable or ShaktiStonian gadget... ;-)
>
>
> Glad I don't drink.
>
> Note to Arny: I'm off the pot for some years as well.
>
> Guess I'll have to allow myself some Shakti stones ;-)

Nah.... just run the speaker leads between two house bricks - not the
nasty, cheap concrete ones 'cos they ruin the sound. ;-)

--
Mick
(no M$ software on here... :-) )
Web: http://www.nascom.info
Web: http://projectedsound.tk

[Lionel]

dave weil a écrit :
> On Fri, 04 Feb 2005 20:15:58 +0100, Lionel >
> wrote:
>
>
>>>I don't think that there's anything wrong with having a chuckle over a
>>>correction ended up not being a correction after all.
>>
>>
>>It wasn't a <chuckle> but a <s******>
>
>
> I'm sorry that it got under your skin.

You are dreaming , Dave.
You are to thick to go under my skin. :-D

[Lionel]

mick a écrit :
> On Fri, 04 Feb 2005 16:38:45 +0100, Sander deWaal wrote:
>
>
>>Lionel > said:
>>
>>
>>>>Tell me about your favorite audio tweaks.
>>
>>>Two (never more) glasses of a good wine, quietness and good music.
>>
>>>Note that in the end such drastic conditions are really more expensive
>>>than the most expensive cable or ShaktiStonian gadget... ;-)
>>
>>
>>Glad I don't drink.
>>
>>Note to Arny: I'm off the pot for some years as well.
>>
>>Guess I'll have to allow myself some Shakti stones ;-)
>
>
> Nah.... just run the speaker leads between two house bricks - not the
> nasty, cheap concrete ones 'cos they ruin the sound. ;-)


What a nice horn construction on the Website !
May I have more information (drivers, filter...) or is it still a
pending project ?

[Lionel]

In >, dave weil wrote :

> On Fri, 04 Feb 2005 20:56:42 +0100, Lionel >
> wrote:
>
>>dave weil a écrit :
>>> On Fri, 04 Feb 2005 20:15:58 +0100, Lionel >
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>>I don't think that there's anything wrong with having a chuckle over a
>>>>>correction ended up not being a correction after all.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>It wasn't a <chuckle> but a <s******>
>>>
>>>
>>> I'm sorry that it got under your skin.
>>
>>You are dreaming , Dave.
>>You are to thick to go under my skin. :-D
>
> That's of course why you bothered to make the distinction, because it
> was so unimportant.

Gag !!!

Don't you have something more important to do than to **** the flies ?
A great concert ? An overdue speaker review ? A book to read ?

I'm a little bit worry for you now. ;-)

[dave weil]

On Fri, 04 Feb 2005 21:51:15 +0100, Lionel >
wrote:

>> That's of course why you bothered to make the distinction, because it
>> was so unimportant.
>
>Gag !!!
>
>Don't you have something more important to do than to **** the flies ?

Since I've only posted a few times today, I would suggest that you ask
yourself why you are constantly posting these days. Or are you feeling
amorous, little fly? Aren't you getting it at home?

[Lionel]

dave weil a écrit :
> On Fri, 04 Feb 2005 21:51:15 +0100, Lionel >
> wrote:
>
>
>>>That's of course why you bothered to make the distinction, because it
>>>was so unimportant.
>>
>>Gag !!!
>>
>>Don't you have something more important to do than to **** the flies ?
>
>
> Since I've only posted a few times today, I would suggest that you ask
> yourself why you are constantly posting these days.

Because I have a *lot* of time to waste. Your point ?

> Or are you feeling
> amorous, little fly? Aren't you getting it at home?

Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

;-)

[mick]

On Fri, 04 Feb 2005 21:01:43 +0100, Lionel wrote:

<snip>
>
> What a nice horn construction on the Website ! May I have more information
> (drivers, filter...) or is it still a pending project ?

I don't know how it went on. That was a contribution from Andre Jute. I
don't even know if he finished them - but I bet he did 'cos I suspect
that the drivers were expensive! It's a nice build though, isn't it?

I'm thinking of building a slight mod on the FE103E back horns here:
http://www.fostexinternational.com/docs/speaker_comp/rec_enc_1.shtml
A lot cheaper than Lowthers... :-)

--
Mick
(no M$ software on here... :-) )
Web: http://www.nascom.info
Web: http://projectedsound.tk

[dave weil]

On Fri, 04 Feb 2005 22:13:47 +0100, Lionel >
wrote:

>dave weil a écrit :
>> On Fri, 04 Feb 2005 21:51:15 +0100, Lionel >
>> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>>That's of course why you bothered to make the distinction, because it
>>>>was so unimportant.
>>>
>>>Gag !!!
>>>
>>>Don't you have something more important to do than to **** the flies ?
>>
>>
>> Since I've only posted a few times today, I would suggest that you ask
>> yourself why you are constantly posting these days.
>
>Because I have a *lot* of time to waste. Your point ?

I think you made your *own* point.

>> Or are you feeling
>> amorous, little fly? Aren't you getting it at home?
>
>Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

<swat!>

Pesky buzzing flies...

[Lionel]

mick a écrit :
> On Fri, 04 Feb 2005 21:01:43 +0100, Lionel wrote:
>
> <snip>
>
>>What a nice horn construction on the Website ! May I have more information
>>(drivers, filter...) or is it still a pending project ?
>
>
> I don't know how it went on. That was a contribution from Andre Jute. I
> don't even know if he finished them - but I bet he did 'cos I suspect
> that the drivers were expensive! It's a nice build though, isn't it?

Yes, I haven't seen this kind of "double ML TL" before this is why I am
curious about the results.

> I'm thinking of building a slight mod on the FE103E back horns here:
> http://www.fostexinternational.com/docs/speaker_comp/rec_enc_1.shtml
> A lot cheaper than Lowthers... :-)

Sure...
I am still lurking on the internet to find "THE" design with a FF225K +
FT17H.

Now I am builting my 3rd "Daline" TL with Silver Flute (W14RC25-08) +
Seas (H883) drivers for a friend (Madisound LEAP XOver).

After that I have a pending project for which I already have the Audax
drivers on hand :

- TW025A0 tweeter
- 2 x HM130Z4 midranges
- HT204MO Woofer

So "a priori" a year of fun experimentation.
As long as it last... :-)

[Lionel]

dave weil a écrit :

>>>Since I've only posted a few times today, I would suggest that you ask
>>>yourself why you are constantly posting these days.
>>
>>Because I have a *lot* of time to waste. Your point ?
>
>
> I think you made your *own* point.

Is there something humiliating in having a lot of time to waste, Dave ?
Do you want to elaborate a little bit on that or do you prefer to
conclude with an easy <chuckle> ?

Don't worry if it's really important for you I already grant you an
accordion... ;-)

[Michael McKelvy]

"Sander deWaal" > wrote in message
...
> "Michael McKelvy" > said:
>
> <sonus faber>
>>No, I've listened to a couple models that I said sounded very nice. I've
>>also seen the specs on some others that show them to have bloated bss
>>response, which can be had in speakers that sell for far less.
>
>
> While it has been a while since I heard any SF speaker, I don't recall
> them having bloated bass in a normal listening room.
>
Unless you have a speaker that doesn't have bloated bass response, you
would likely think they sound "punchy."

> How were those specs measured?

Check the Stereophille archives, wait I have their review of the Stradivari
in front of me here. Let's see: "anechoic response on tweeter axis at 50",
without grille, averaged across 30 degrees orizontal window and corrected
for microphone response, with the complex sum of the nearfield midrange,
woofer, and port repsonses, taking into account acoustic phase and distance
from nominal farfield point, plotted below 350Hz."

The graph shows a peak in response from roughly 350Hz ascending to
approximately 125Hz where it peaks at 12 dB descends a bit to about 95 hz
then rising again to a peak at 60Hz where it begins to fall off as one would
expect for a ported speaker. It is also according to the review, typical of
SF designs in that it is a bitch to drive without a very rugged amp.

This seems very wierd to me given that the drivers are Dynaudio woofers and
normally present an easy load. To it's credit, the speaker has very nice
response off axis, and if the bass were flattened out it would be a first
rate speaker IMHO. Compare to a Merlin VSM and you'll see a much flatter
bass response. The Merlin VSM is one of the finest speakers I've ever heard
at any price, and AFAIK, the drivers are off the shelf units from Dynaudio
and Scan-Speak, not the super duper modified ones from SF.

The Merlin review can be found at
http://www.stereophile.com/searchresults/index.html?terms=Merlin+VSM&stype=A&x=15&y=10

The SF Stradavari at http://www.stereophile.com/loudspeakerreviews/

> A FR response taken in a dead room doesn't tell that much.
>
>
>>Explain what principle could possibly make one of the stone cause any
>>audible effect.
>
>
> Psycho-acoustics.
>
Isn't that another way of saying delusion? :-)

[JBorg]

> Michael McKelvy" > wrote
>> Sander deWaal" > wrote
>>> "Michael McKelvy" > said:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> <sonus faber>
>>>No, I've listened to a couple models that I said sounded very nice. I've
>>>also seen the specs on some others that show them to have bloated bss
>>>response, which can be had in speakers that sell for far less.
>>
>>
>> While it has been a while since I heard any SF speaker, I don't recall
>> them having bloated bass in a normal listening room.
>>
> Unless you have a speaker that doesn't have bloated bass response, you
> would likely think they sound "punchy."
>
>> How were those specs measured?
>
> Check the Stereophille archives, wait I have their review of the Stradivari
> in front of me here. Let's see: "anechoic response on tweeter axis at 50",
> without grille, averaged across 30 degrees orizontal window and corrected
> for microphone response, with the complex sum of the nearfield midrange,
> woofer, and port repsonses, taking into account acoustic phase and distance
> from nominal farfield point, plotted below 350Hz."
>
> The graph shows a peak in response from roughly 350Hz ascending to
> approximately 125Hz where it peaks at 12 dB descends a bit to about 95 hz
> then rising again to a peak at 60Hz where it begins to fall off as one would
> expect for a ported speaker. It is also according to the review, typical of
> SF designs in that it is a bitch to drive without a very rugged amp.
>
> This seems very wierd to me given that the drivers are Dynaudio woofers and
> normally present an easy load. To it's credit, the speaker has very nice
> response off axis, and if the bass were flattened out it would be a first
> rate speaker IMHO. Compare to a Merlin VSM and you'll see a much flatter
> bass response. The Merlin VSM is one of the finest speakers I've ever heard
> at any price, and AFAIK, the drivers are off the shelf units from Dynaudio
> and Scan-Speak, not the super duper modified ones from SF.

I'm trying to follow this thread... and so far, could it be that the cabinet
enclosure
in SF speaker is contributing to this aberrations in bass?

I also read that there's well-known suck-out in that region among typical
listening environment in homes. You did say that the said speaker has very
nice response off axis but in anechoic room... hmm.

> The Merlin review can be found at
> http://www.stereophile.com/searchresults/index.html?terms=Merlin+VSM&stype=A&x=15&y=10
>
> The SF Stradavari at http://www.stereophile.com/loudspeakerreviews/
>
>> A FR response taken in a dead room doesn't tell that much.
>>
>>
>>>Explain what principle could possibly make one of the stone cause any
>>>audible effect.
>>
>>
>> Psycho-acoustics.
>>
>>
> Isn't that another way of saying delusion? :-)


No, there's positive extrinsic signal.

[dave weil]

On Fri, 04 Feb 2005 22:43:21 +0100, Lionel >
wrote:

>dave weil a écrit :
>
>>>>Since I've only posted a few times today, I would suggest that you ask
>>>>yourself why you are constantly posting these days.
>>>
>>>Because I have a *lot* of time to waste. Your point ?
>>
>>
>> I think you made your *own* point.
>
>Is there something humiliating in having a lot of time to waste, Dave ?

Only when it's someone else, right? When it's you, you can bust
whomever you want, even people who *aren't* wasting a heck of a lot of
time on this newsgroup.

>Do you want to elaborate a little bit on that or do you prefer to
>conclude with an easy <chuckle> ?
>
>Don't worry if it's really important for you I already grant you an
>accordion... ;-)

You're falling back on tired jokes. I think your English is butting up
against the wall...

[Michael McKelvy]

"Michael McKelvy" > wrote in message
k.net...
>
> "Sander deWaal" > wrote in message
> ...
>> "Michael McKelvy" > said:
>>
>> <sonus faber>
>>>No, I've listened to a couple models that I said sounded very nice. I've
>>>also seen the specs on some others that show them to have bloated bss
>>>response, which can be had in speakers that sell for far less.
>>
>>
>> While it has been a while since I heard any SF speaker, I don't recall
>> them having bloated bass in a normal listening room.
>>
> Unless you have a speaker that doesn't have bloated bass response, you
> would likely think they sound "punchy."
>
>> How were those specs measured?
>
> Check the Stereophille archives, wait I have their review of the
> Stradivari in front of me here. Let's see: "anechoic response on tweeter
> axis at 50", without grille, averaged across 30 degrees orizontal window
> and corrected for microphone response, with the complex sum of the
> nearfield midrange, woofer, and port repsonses, taking into account
> acoustic phase and distance from nominal farfield point, plotted below
> 350Hz."
>
> The graph shows a peak in response from roughly 350Hz ascending to
> approximately 125Hz where it peaks at 12 dB descends a bit to about 95 hz
> then rising again to a peak at 60Hz where it begins to fall off as one
> would expect for a ported speaker. It is also according to the review,
> typical of SF designs in that it is a bitch to drive without a very rugged
> amp.
>
> This seems very wierd to me given that the drivers are Dynaudio woofers
> and normally present an easy load. To it's credit, the speaker has very
> nice response off axis, and if the bass were flattened out it would be a
> first rate speaker IMHO. Compare to a Merlin VSM and you'll see a much
> flatter bass response. The Merlin VSM is one of the finest speakers I've
> ever heard at any price, and AFAIK, the drivers are off the shelf units
> from Dynaudio and Scan-Speak, not the super duper modified ones from SF.
>
> The Merlin review can be found at
> http://www.stereophile.com/searchresults/index.html?terms=Merlin+VSM&stype=A&x=15&y=10
>
> The SF Stradavari at http://www.stereophile.com/loudspeakerreviews/
>

If you really want to see what good FR is from a loudspeaker try this one:
http://www.stereophile.com/loudspeakerreviews/501/index6.html

Unfortunately it will cost you $85,000.


>> A FR response taken in a dead room doesn't tell that much.
>>
>>
>>>Explain what principle could possibly make one of the stone cause any
>>>audible effect.
>>
>>
>> Psycho-acoustics.
>>
> Isn't that another way of saying delusion? :-)
>

[Sander deWaal]

mick > said:

>> Guess I'll have to allow myself some Shakti stones ;-)

>Nah.... just run the speaker leads between two house bricks - not the
>nasty, cheap concrete ones 'cos they ruin the sound. ;-)


One can overcome that little nuisance by placing a 5 ohms 20 watts
wirewound resistor in series with cheap housebricks and connect them
to the mains directly.

--
Sander de Waal
" SOA of a KT88? Sufficient. "

[mick]

On Sat, 05 Feb 2005 15:05:43 +0100, Sander deWaal wrote:

> mick > said:
>
>>> Guess I'll have to allow myself some Shakti stones ;-)
>
>>Nah.... just run the speaker leads between two house bricks - not the
>>nasty, cheap concrete ones 'cos they ruin the sound. ;-)
>
>
> One can overcome that little nuisance by placing a 5 ohms 20 watts
> wirewound resistor in series with cheap housebricks and connect them to
> the mains directly.

Wow! I hadn't thought of that! You can. of course, use a string of
up-ended housebricks to suspend the speaker leads from the floor. This
reduces capacitance to ground and, obviously, improves the "top end" above
144MHz...

--
Mick
(no M$ software on here... :-) )
Web: http://www.nascom.info
Web: http://projectedsound.tk

[Sander deWaal]

mick > said:

>>>Nah.... just run the speaker leads between two house bricks - not the
>>>nasty, cheap concrete ones 'cos they ruin the sound. ;-)

>> One can overcome that little nuisance by placing a 5 ohms 20 watts
>> wirewound resistor in series with cheap housebricks and connect them to
>> the mains directly.

>Wow! I hadn't thought of that! You can. of course, use a string of
>up-ended housebricks to suspend the speaker leads from the floor. This
>reduces capacitance to ground and, obviously, improves the "top end" above
>144MHz...


Almost there.
It is 144.3657 MHz, actually.
When you put the speaker cables in the fridge before listening, you
can raise the resonance frequency to a whopping 149.8976 MHz.

Also, lying all cables in exact angles of 67.3 deg. makes a remarkable
difference.

I don't see why more people do this.
Beats the hell out of a NOS quad of GEC KT88s!

--
Sander de Waal
" SOA of a KT88? Sufficient. "

[mick]

On Sat, 05 Feb 2005 16:32:40 +0100, Sander deWaal wrote:

<snip>
>
> Almost there.
> It is 144.3657 MHz, actually.
> When you put the speaker cables in the fridge before listening, you can
> raise the resonance frequency to a whopping 149.8976 MHz.
>

If there's one thing I can't stand its a know-it-all...... >:-)


> Also, lying all cables in exact angles of 67.3 deg. makes a remarkable
> difference.
>
> I don't see why more people do this.
> Beats the hell out of a NOS quad of GEC KT88s!

For the ultimate, though, use an OC71 for the front-end....

--
Mick
(no M$ software on here... :-) )
Web: http://www.nascom.info
Web: http://projectedsound.tk

[Sander deWaal]

mick > said:

>> Beats the hell out of a NOS quad of GEC KT88s!

>For the ultimate, though, use an OC71 for the front-end....


Are you kidding?
NOS CK722 is the one to have.
Where have you been lately, Proxima Centauri? ;-)

--
Sander de Waal
" SOA of a KT88? Sufficient. "

[mick]

On Sat, 05 Feb 2005 20:18:16 +0100, Sander deWaal wrote:

> mick > said:
>
>>> Beats the hell out of a NOS quad of GEC KT88s!
>
>>For the ultimate, though, use an OC71 for the front-end....
>
>
> Are you kidding?
> NOS CK722 is the one to have.
> Where have you been lately, Proxima Centauri? ;-)

Nope - setting up this genuine Newmarket Red/Yellow spot "flatpack" RF
transistor front-end!!!!! :-)

--
Mick
(no M$ software on here... :-) )
Web: http://www.nascom.info
Web: http://projectedsound.tk

[Ruud Broens]

"Sander deWaal" > wrote in message
...
: mick > said:
:
: >> Beats the hell out of a NOS quad of GEC KT88s!
:
: >For the ultimate, though, use an OC71 for the front-end....
:
:
: Are you kidding?
: NOS CK722 is the one to have.
: Where have you been lately, Proxima Centauri? ;-)
:
: --
: Sander de Waal
: " SOA of a KT88? Sufficient. "

EF804s Telefunken in triode, anyone ?
s/n 100 dB possible, Trev :-)

only have 3, though,
Rudy

[Fella]

Lionel wrote:

>
> I just hope that you will be able to tolerate the critics when you will
> report the results of your experimentation. ;-)

I most probably wont even read them.

[Bruce J. Richman]

Paul Dormer wrote:


>"Michael McKelvy" emitted :
>
>>If you really want to see what good FR is from a loudspeaker try this one:
>>http://www.stereophile.com/loudspeakerreviews/501/index6.html
>>
>>Unfortunately it will cost you $85,000.
>
>No, it will not.
>
>
>S i g n a l @ l i n e o n e . n e t
>-----------------------------------
>It's Grim down south..
>
>
>

Quads, Martin Logans, and Magnepans are a lot less expensive. Of course,
you'll have to listen to them to appreciate them.

However, the next time you want a response curve to "enjoy", don't hesitate to
spend as much as possible. I would also recommendd asking the manufacturer if
the response curve is available in different extra-cost finishes as a desirable
option.



Bruce J. Richman

[Lionel]

Paul Dormer a écrit :
> "Michael McKelvy" emitted :
>
>
>>If you really want to see what good FR is from a loudspeaker try this one:
>>http://www.stereophile.com/loudspeakerreviews/501/index6.html
>>
>>Unfortunately it will cost you $85,000.
>
>
> No, it will not.


That's right. Moreover Dynaudio have now very serious
competitors.

http://www.swanspeaker.com/product/htm/view.asp?id=33

[Bruce J. Richman]

Paul Dormer wrote:


>"Bruce J. Richman" emitted :
>
>>>>If you really want to see what good FR is from a loudspeaker try this one:
>>>>http://www.stereophile.com/loudspeakerreviews/501/index6.html
>>>>
>>>>Unfortunately it will cost you $85,000.
>>>
>>>No, it will not.
>>
>>Quads, Martin Logans, and Magnepans are a lot less expensive. Of course,
>>you'll have to listen to them to appreciate them.
>
>That's disgusting. How dare you suggest that folk listen to speakers
>before appraising them. This certainly does NOT apply to Mr McPharmacy
>-- who, as a wannabe speaker designer himself, does not need any first
>hand experience to pass judgement.
>

>>However, the next time you want a response curve to "enjoy", don't hesitate
>to
>>spend as much as possible. I would also recommendd asking the manufacturer
>if
>>the response curve is available in different extra-cost finishes as a
>desirable
>>option.
>
>The beauty of this is you can reclaim living space by putting the
>speakers into storage, and yet enjoy a gilt framed print of the FR in
>your own home. Fun.
>
>

Excellent idea. LOT's. And for an extra dash of panache, one should try and
get a *signed* response curve, done by the measurement eggspurt.







>
>S i g n a l @ l i n e o n e . n e t
>-----------------------------------
>It's Grim down south..
>
>
>
>
>
>


Bruce J. Richman

[dave weil]

On 08 Feb 2005 21:21:50 GMT, (Bruce J. Richman)
wrote:

>Paul Dormer wrote:
>
>
>>"Michael McKelvy" emitted :
>>
>>>If you really want to see what good FR is from a loudspeaker try this one:
>>>http://www.stereophile.com/loudspeakerreviews/501/index6.html
>>>
>>>Unfortunately it will cost you $85,000.
>>
>>No, it will not.
>>
>>
>>S i g n a l @ l i n e o n e . n e t
>>-----------------------------------
>>It's Grim down south..
>>
>>
>>
>
>Quads, Martin Logans, and Magnepans are a lot less expensive. Of course,
>you'll have to listen to them to appreciate them.
>
>However, the next time you want a response curve to "enjoy", don't hesitate to
>spend as much as possible. I would also recommendd asking the manufacturer if
>the response curve is available in different extra-cost finishes as a desirable
>option.

That is very similar to the Dynaudio speaker system I heard in Hamburg
about 4 years ago. It was certainly in the same price class. Color me
unimpressed. It was driven by about $200,000 worth of MBL monoblocks,
preamps and god-knows what outrageously priced CD player. Although I
wasn't in the "sweet spot", which was reserved for a couple of black
clad schicki-mickis, I was able to listen for about 15 minutes from
further back in the room and it was 15 minutes of univolving sound.
Pretty bland, if you ask me.

I would have been far more interested in hearing the MBL pod speakers
that were sitting unconnected on the side. I've never heard those
pulsating hemispheres and would have really liked hearing them.

[dave weil]

On Tue, 08 Feb 2005 17:06:22 -0600, dave weil >
wrote:

>On 08 Feb 2005 21:21:50 GMT, (Bruce J. Richman)
>wrote:
>
>>Paul Dormer wrote:
>>
>>
>>>"Michael McKelvy" emitted :
>>>
>>>>If you really want to see what good FR is from a loudspeaker try this one:
>>>>http://www.stereophile.com/loudspeakerreviews/501/index6.html
>>>>
>>>>Unfortunately it will cost you $85,000.
>>>
>>>No, it will not.
>>>
>>>
>>>S i g n a l @ l i n e o n e . n e t
>>>-----------------------------------
>>>It's Grim down south..
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>Quads, Martin Logans, and Magnepans are a lot less expensive. Of course,
>>you'll have to listen to them to appreciate them.
>>
>>However, the next time you want a response curve to "enjoy", don't hesitate to
>>spend as much as possible. I would also recommendd asking the manufacturer if
>>the response curve is available in different extra-cost finishes as a desirable
>>option.
>
>That is very similar to the Dynaudio speaker system I heard in Hamburg
>about 4 years ago. It was certainly in the same price class. Color me
>unimpressed. It was driven by about $200,000 worth of MBL monoblocks,
>preamps and god-knows what outrageously priced CD player. Although I
>wasn't in the "sweet spot", which was reserved for a couple of black
>clad schicki-mickis, I was able to listen for about 15 minutes from
>further back in the room and it was 15 minutes of univolving sound.
>Pretty bland, if you ask me.
>
>I would have been far more interested in hearing the MBL pod speakers
>that were sitting unconnected on the side. I've never heard those
>pulsating hemispheres and would have really liked hearing them.

A correction - what I heard was the price equivalent to the flagship
model, not the model pictured in the review. I'm pretty sure that it
was the flagship model at the time.

[Ruud Broens]

"Lionel" > wrote in message
...
: Paul Dormer a écrit :
: > "Michael McKelvy" emitted :
: >
: >
: >>If you really want to see what good FR is from a loudspeaker try this one:
: >>http://www.stereophile.com/loudspeakerreviews/501/index6.html
: >>
: >>Unfortunately it will cost you $85,000.
: >
: >
: > No, it will not.
:
:
: That's right. Moreover Dynaudio have now very serious
: competitors.
:
: http://www.swanspeaker.com/product/htm/view.asp?id=33

Hmm. Serious competition ?? whaddabout this:
http://www.klein-hummel.de/html/studio/studio_index_g.htm
O500c 3way active studio monitor, FIR 96 dB/oct filters

distortion at 12 dB SPL above this Swan the same
far better pulse response - no resonances

probable somewhat below USD 85 K, I gather ;)

Rudy

[Fella]

Paul Dormer wrote:

> "Bruce J. Richman" emitted :
>
>
>>>>If you really want to see what good FR is from a loudspeaker try this one:
>>>>http://www.stereophile.com/loudspeakerreviews/501/index6.html
>>>>
>>>>Unfortunately it will cost you $85,000.
>>>
>>>No, it will not.
>>
>>Quads, Martin Logans, and Magnepans are a lot less expensive. Of course,
>>you'll have to listen to them to appreciate them.
>
>
> That's disgusting. How dare you suggest that folk listen to speakers
> before appraising them. This certainly does NOT apply to Mr McPharmacy
> -- who, as a wannabe speaker designer himself, does not need any first
> hand experience to pass judgement.

Exactly. And when it comes to passing negative judgement, the even the
measurements of the "ragazine" called $stereophile is enough.

[Fella]

dave weil wrote:

> On 08 Feb 2005 21:21:50 GMT, (Bruce J. Richman)
> wrote:
>
>
>>Paul Dormer wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>>"Michael McKelvy" emitted :
>>>
>>>
>>>>If you really want to see what good FR is from a loudspeaker try this one:
>>>>http://www.stereophile.com/loudspeakerreviews/501/index6.html
>>>>
>>>>Unfortunately it will cost you $85,000.
>>>
>>>No, it will not.
>>>
>>>
>>>S i g n a l @ l i n e o n e . n e t
>>>-----------------------------------
>>>It's Grim down south..
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>Quads, Martin Logans, and Magnepans are a lot less expensive. Of course,
>>you'll have to listen to them to appreciate them.
>>
>>However, the next time you want a response curve to "enjoy", don't hesitate to
>>spend as much as possible. I would also recommendd asking the manufacturer if
>>the response curve is available in different extra-cost finishes as a desirable
>>option.
>
>
> That is very similar to the Dynaudio speaker system I heard in Hamburg
> about 4 years ago. It was certainly in the same price class. Color me
> unimpressed.

I have also listened to the dynaudio flagship model, some 30 minutes
before I lost interest, at my local dealer. It was like walking along
the corridors of some squeaky clean hospital. All music coming out was
first taken to the dry-cleaners, then disinfected, etc, then served on a
platter by some bunny-hopping white-clad, breastless ballerina.

[dave weil]

On Wed, 09 Feb 2005 10:56:47 +0200, Fella > wrote:

>dave weil wrote:
>
>> On 08 Feb 2005 21:21:50 GMT, (Bruce J. Richman)
>> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Paul Dormer wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>"Michael McKelvy" emitted :
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>If you really want to see what good FR is from a loudspeaker try this one:
>>>>>http://www.stereophile.com/loudspeakerreviews/501/index6.html
>>>>>
>>>>>Unfortunately it will cost you $85,000.
>>>>
>>>>No, it will not.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>S i g n a l @ l i n e o n e . n e t
>>>>-----------------------------------
>>>>It's Grim down south..
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>Quads, Martin Logans, and Magnepans are a lot less expensive. Of course,
>>>you'll have to listen to them to appreciate them.
>>>
>>>However, the next time you want a response curve to "enjoy", don't hesitate to
>>>spend as much as possible. I would also recommendd asking the manufacturer if
>>>the response curve is available in different extra-cost finishes as a desirable
>>>option.
>>
>>
>> That is very similar to the Dynaudio speaker system I heard in Hamburg
>> about 4 years ago. It was certainly in the same price class. Color me
>> unimpressed.
>
>I have also listened to the dynaudio flagship model, some 30 minutes
>before I lost interest, at my local dealer. It was like walking along
>the corridors of some squeaky clean hospital. All music coming out was
>first taken to the dry-cleaners, then disinfected, etc, then served on a
>platter by some bunny-hopping white-clad, breastless ballerina.

That's a far better description than I was able to muster!

I don't say that my opinion is absolute though. I was definitely
listening from a less-than-optimum position. Plus, I didn't think that
the speakers were set up very well in the room. The room was about 25
feet by 18 feet and the speakers were almost against the back wall.
The "listening position" was a leather sofa about 10 feet from the
speakers, while I stood off to the left and about 10 feet behind the
sofa. Still, I've heard enough music in other similar conditions to
know when a speaker can grab me DESPITE the less-than-optimum
conditions. I think the word sterile sums it up. Bland would be
another word that comes to mind.

[Fella]

dave weil wrote:

> On Wed, 09 Feb 2005 10:56:47 +0200, Fella > wrote:
>
>
>>dave weil wrote:
>>
>>
>>>On 08 Feb 2005 21:21:50 GMT, (Bruce J. Richman)
>>>wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>Paul Dormer wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>"Michael McKelvy" emitted :
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>If you really want to see what good FR is from a loudspeaker try this one:
>>>>>>http://www.stereophile.com/loudspeakerreviews/501/index6.html
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Unfortunately it will cost you $85,000.
>>>>>
>>>>>No, it will not.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>S i g n a l @ l i n e o n e . n e t
>>>>>-----------------------------------
>>>>>It's Grim down south..
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Quads, Martin Logans, and Magnepans are a lot less expensive. Of course,
>>>>you'll have to listen to them to appreciate them.
>>>>
>>>>However, the next time you want a response curve to "enjoy", don't hesitate to
>>>>spend as much as possible. I would also recommendd asking the manufacturer if
>>>>the response curve is available in different extra-cost finishes as a desirable
>>>>option.
>>>
>>>
>>>That is very similar to the Dynaudio speaker system I heard in Hamburg
>>>about 4 years ago. It was certainly in the same price class. Color me
>>>unimpressed.
>>
>>I have also listened to the dynaudio flagship model, some 30 minutes
>>before I lost interest, at my local dealer. It was like walking along
>>the corridors of some squeaky clean hospital. All music coming out was
>>first taken to the dry-cleaners, then disinfected, etc, then served on a
>>platter by some bunny-hopping white-clad, breastless ballerina.
>
>
> That's a far better description than I was able to muster!

Thanks. :)

>
> I don't say that my opinion is absolute though.

Though mine is, as an opinion. Since at one time I took a dynaudio model
home and auditioned (nothing so expensive as the those towers though)
them for a couple of weeks. In terms of enjoying music, probably the
most boring but clean two weeks of my life. I wouldn't use any dynaudio
model as my home speakers, all that I've heard up to now are too clean
and neutral.

They do have their moments of beauty, though. But in those moments you
are saying to yourself "Wow, some impressive sounds are coming out of
them towers there, those speakers are sounding good, smack-sharp clean
etc".. IOW, you are listening to the speakers, the equipment, with
almost no musical involvement.

But with sonus fabers, for instance, what speakers, amps, etc, all that
stuff just disappears. :)

> I think the word sterile sums it up. Bland would be
> another word that comes to mind.

Agreed. But different folks for different strokes, as it were. Some
people are specifically after their neutrality.