Hello All,

I joined this group a few weeks ago. Reading different topics I clearly see
that there's a lot of people around here that know a lot about Audio. (and
that's why most of us are here... Right?????)

I must say that It's saddening to see how a few people on here are able to
destroy what should and could be a great forum and a great source of
information. And I'm not just talking of those that spread lies and crap.
I'm also talking of those who constantly have to attack the liars.

If one person puts out a lie there's 20 people joining in to slam the liar.
Don't people see that it's destroying this forum? If no one bothers to reply
to the few liars then they might just shut up or even leave.

Some people are here just to mess with your head and to generally spread
S**T..... And you're letting it get to you...... If some of us step up to
the "higher ground" others might follow and the low lives can stay where
they are alone........


Just a thought....


Ole
Bergen, Norway

Ole Johansen wrote:
Hello All,

I joined this group a few weeks ago. Reading different topics I
clearly see
that there's a lot of people around here that know a lot about Audio.
(and
that's why most of us are here... Right?????)

I must say that It's saddening to see how a few people on here are
able to
destroy what should and could be a great forum and a great source of
information. And I'm not just talking of those that spread lies and
crap.
I'm also talking of those who constantly have to attack the liars.

If one person puts out a lie there's 20 people joining in to slam the
liar.
Don't people see that it's destroying this forum? If no one bothers
to reply
to the few liars then they might just shut up or even leave.

Some people are here just to mess with your head and to generally
spread
S**T..... And you're letting it get to you...... If some of us step
up to
the "higher ground" others might follow and the low lives can stay
where
they are alone........


Just a thought....


Ole
Bergen, Norway

Try this forum. http://www.stevehoffman.tv/ I think it will cheer you
up.

"Ole Johansen" wrote in message
...
Hello All,

I joined this group a few weeks ago. Reading different topics I clearly
see
that there's a lot of people around here that know a lot about Audio. (and
that's why most of us are here... Right?????)

**No.


I must say that It's saddening to see how a few people on here are able to
destroy what should and could be a great forum and a great source of
information. And I'm not just talking of those that spread lies and crap.
I'm also talking of those who constantly have to attack the liars.

**Sad, perhaps, but that is part of the game.


If one person puts out a lie there's 20 people joining in to slam the
liar.
Don't people see that it's destroying this forum? If no one bothers to
reply
to the few liars then they might just shut up or even leave.

**Destroying the forum? You're kidding, right? This forum has been thriving
for years. Rumours of it's demise have been circulating for a long time.


Some people are here just to mess with your head and to generally spread
S**T..... And you're letting it get to you...... If some of us step up to
the "higher ground" others might follow and the low lives can stay where
they are alone........

**This is RAO. You can say "****", if you wish.



Just a thought....


Ole
Bergen, Norway


--
Trevor Wilson
www.rageaudio.com.au

Ole Johansen a écrit :
Hello All,

I joined this group a few weeks ago. Reading different topics I clearly see
that there's a lot of people around here that know a lot about Audio. (and
that's why most of us are here... Right?????)

I must say that It's saddening to see how a few people on here are able to
destroy what should and could be a great forum and a great source of
information. And I'm not just talking of those that spread lies and crap.
I'm also talking of those who constantly have to attack the liars.

If one person puts out a lie there's 20 people joining in to slam the liar.
Don't people see that it's destroying this forum?

You got it wrong here Ole, this is not a "simple" forum. This is a
whisky bar where people from audio but also from other disciplines are
coming to get drunk.
Can you guarantee zero mess, zero donnybrook in a whisky bar ?
....So is RAO.

Don't have any regret since most of the people with an interesting audio
knowledge are also posting on others forums. Make a google search by
people name (or nickname)

If no one bothers to reply
to the few liars then they might just shut up or even leave.

Some people are here just to mess with your head and to generally spread
S**T..... And you're letting it get to you...... If some of us step up to
the "higher ground" others might follow and the low lives can stay where
they are alone........


Just a thought....

A pious thought, thank you for it.

Lionel
Saint-Etienne, France

"Ole Johansen" wrote in message
...
Hello All,

I joined this group a few weeks ago. Reading different topics I clearly
see
that there's a lot of people around here that know a lot about Audio. (and
that's why most of us are here... Right?????)

I must say that It's saddening to see how a few people on here are able to
destroy what should and could be a great forum and a great source of
information. And I'm not just talking of those that spread lies and crap.
I'm also talking of those who constantly have to attack the liars.

If one person puts out a lie there's 20 people joining in to slam the
liar.
Don't people see that it's destroying this forum? If no one bothers to
reply
to the few liars then they might just shut up or even leave.

Some people are here just to mess with your head and to generally spread
S**T..... And you're letting it get to you...... If some of us step up to
the "higher ground" others might follow and the low lives can stay where
they are alone........


Just a thought....


Ole
Bergen, Norway

This group is nothing but a shell of it former self. These people are wimps
compared to before. A few years ago this group was for real men only.

At least one person died of heart attack (or stroke) because of the
viciousness of this forum just a few years ago.

Try rec.audio.misc

"Mark A" wrote in message


This group is nothing but a shell of it former self. These people are
wimps compared to before. A few years ago this group was for real men
only.

Agreed. Then came Middius and his scorched-earth policy. His basic plan
seems to be that if he can't chase the people he doesn't like off, he'll
spol the whole place for everybody.

At least one person died of heart attack (or stroke) because of the
viciousness of this forum just a few years ago.

Perhaps.

Try rec.audio.misc

Good idea. Most of the people who post here about audio, also post on one or
more audio groups elsewhere in Usenet.

For example Trevor is a good guy, and posts on aus.hi-fi.

I post on rec.audio.tech and rec,audio.pro among other places.

Arny said:

Then came Middius and his scorched-earth policy.

Wow. I haven't heard you use this term since The Tape.

Boon

Marc Phillips a écrit :
Arny said:


Then came Middius and his scorched-earth policy.


Wow. I haven't heard you use this term since The Tape.

Are you also one of those fetichists who jealously keeps a recording of
Arnold's voice ?
Ask Dave Weil he has 120 Go HD full of backuped messages...
Note that I am nearly sure that Middius is sleeping on one of Krueger's
robbed underwear.

You should get in contact with them to be able to complete your collection.

;-)

Mark A a écrit :

This group is nothing but a shell of it former self. These people are wimps
compared to before. A few years ago this group was for real men only.

Have you noted that for most the veterans the "war" they have done is
often the *worst* of all. ;-)

At least one person died of heart attack (or stroke) because of the
viciousness of this forum just a few years ago.

Are you pretending that he was drinking to forget RAO ?

Try rec.audio.misc

"Ole Johansen" wrote in message

Just a thought....


Ole
Bergen, Norway

You're from Norway? That is rather sad.

"Ole Johansen" wrote in message
...
Hello All,

I joined this group a few weeks ago. Reading different topics I clearly
see
that there's a lot of people around here that know a lot about Audio. (and
that's why most of us are here... Right?????)

I must say that It's saddening to see how a few people on here are able to
destroy what should and could be a great forum and a great source of
information. And I'm not just talking of those that spread lies and crap.
I'm also talking of those who constantly have to attack the liars.

And who are you to talk? We all know Willy the Killer Whale was murdered.



That's the reason for the coming Battle by Proxy, near, but not in, Madison
Square Garden.
Each Nation of thought shall have it's gladiator.
Each Nation shall have it's day.
And who shall carry the field?

Lord Atkinson, Lord of All Highdom, or
Arny Krueger, Teutonic Knight?

Or maybe some Norwegian with an air powered harpoon gun will finish them
both off.

On Thu, 03 Feb 2005 00:24:21 +0100, Ole Johansen wrote:

snip

Some people are here just to mess with your head and to generally spread
S**T..... And you're letting it get to you...... If some of us step up to
the "higher ground" others might follow and the low lives can stay where
they are alone........

snip

Ah, but are you in the right group for information Ole? rec.audio.opinion
is the hunting ground of opinionated people. It has *nothing* to do with
truth, accuracy or facts - just opinions. Relax, enjoy it - spread some
lies and have fun!
:-)

Why do 6" parasitic-coned 1960s vintage speakers sound unusually good
mounted in cardboard boxes? I only wanted a couple of dummy loads... lol!

--
Mick
(no M$ software on here... :-) )
Web: http://www.nascom.info
Web: http://projectedsound.tk

Ole Johansen wrote




Hello All,

I joined this group a few weeks ago. Reading different topics I clearly see
that there's a lot of people around here that know a lot about Audio. (and
that's why most of us are here... Right?????)

I must say that It's saddening to see how a few people on here are able to
destroy what should and could be a great forum and a great source of
information. And I'm not just talking of those that spread lies and crap.
I'm also talking of those who constantly have to attack the liars.

If one person puts out a lie there's 20 people joining in to slam the liar.
Don't people see that it's destroying this forum? If no one bothers to reply
to the few liars then they might just shut up or even leave.

Some people are here just to mess with your head and to generally spread
S**T..... And you're letting it get to you...... If some of us step up to
the "higher ground" others might follow and the low lives can stay where
they are alone........


Just a thought....


Ole
Bergen, Norway



Ole, I empathize with your sentiment. I feel your sadness and feelings of
despair.

The confounding problem this group has is Krooger and his ilk. It seem that
no matter how the seasoned Rao'ers obliterate the bony spaces inside
their skull everyday, they keep coming back wanting for more the next day.


That's bewildering !

JBorg a écrit :
Ole Johansen wrote




Hello All,

I joined this group a few weeks ago. Reading different topics I clearly see
that there's a lot of people around here that know a lot about Audio. (and
that's why most of us are here... Right?????)

I must say that It's saddening to see how a few people on here are able to
destroy what should and could be a great forum and a great source of
information. And I'm not just talking of those that spread lies and crap.
I'm also talking of those who constantly have to attack the liars.

If one person puts out a lie there's 20 people joining in to slam the liar.
Don't people see that it's destroying this forum? If no one bothers to reply
to the few liars then they might just shut up or even leave.

Some people are here just to mess with your head and to generally spread
S**T..... And you're letting it get to you...... If some of us step up to
the "higher ground" others might follow and the low lives can stay where
they are alone........


Just a thought....


Ole
Bergen, Norway




Ole, I empathize with your sentiment. I feel your sadness and feelings of
despair.

The confounding problem this group has is Krooger and his ilk. It seem that
no matter how the seasoned Rao'ers obliterate the bony spaces inside
their skull everyday, they keep coming back wanting for more the next day.


Are you trying to justify your continous presence here, J. ?


That's bewildering !

Yes it is. I've never read such frank confession on RAO.
Congratulation Borg. :-D

Lionel wrote
JBorg a écrit :
Ole Johansen wrote






Ole, I empathize with your sentiment. I feel your sadness and feelings of
despair.

The confounding problem this group has is Krooger and his ilk. It seem
that
no matter how the seasoned Rao'ers obliterate the bony spaces inside
their skull everyday, they keep coming back wanting for more the next day.


Are you trying to justify your continous presence here, J. ?

No, not me. It's Ole,.. to him. I'm telling him why Krooger & Co. continue
to justify their types here.


That's bewildering !


Yes it is. I've never read such frank confession on RAO.
Congratulation Borg. :-D


Tell me about your favorite audio tweaks.

JBorg a écrit :
Lionel wrote

JBorg a écrit :

Ole Johansen wrote






Ole, I empathize with your sentiment. I feel your sadness and feelings of
despair.

The confounding problem this group has is Krooger and his ilk. It seem
that
no matter how the seasoned Rao'ers obliterate the bony spaces inside
their skull everyday, they keep coming back wanting for more the next day.


Are you trying to justify your continous presence here, J. ?


No, not me. It's Ole,.. to him. I'm telling him why Krooger & Co. continue
to justify their types here.



That's bewildering !


Yes it is. I've never read such frank confession on RAO.
Congratulation Borg. :-D



Tell me about your favorite audio tweaks.

Two (never more) glasses of a good wine, quietness and good music.

Note that in the end such drastic conditions are really more expensive
than the most expensive cable or ShaktiStonian gadget... ;-)

Lionel wrote:

ShaktiStonian gadget... ;-)


What's a shaktistonian gadget? Did you ever try one or hear one?

NOTE: No Mickmikey! That question was NOT for you! We all know that you
have listened to all different models of Sonus Fabers, for instance, and
that they are below average just-good-looks speakers and that you can or
anyone with a dynaudio tweeter can make a copy of them. We also KNOW
that you have tried a shakti stone, or been somewhere where they were
tried and that you are sure that they have no effect at all and that you
are sure that they are completely useless audio snake oil. The same goes
for you too, you terrorist!


Ok, Lionel, tell us, did you EVER try out a shakti stone?

On Fri, 04 Feb 2005 13:47:03 +0100, Lionel
wrote:

Tell me about your favorite audio tweaks.

Two (never more) glasses of a good wine, quietness and good music.

Of course tempered by constant visits to RAO. That's the most
important part, don't ya know. Can't listen to a couple of songs
without spewing a littl bile...in fact, the sweeter the music, the
blacker the bile.

Lionel said:

Tell me about your favorite audio tweaks.

Two (never more) glasses of a good wine, quietness and good music.

Note that in the end such drastic conditions are really more expensive
than the most expensive cable or ShaktiStonian gadget... ;-)


Glad I don't drink.

Note to Arny: I'm off the pot for some years as well.

Guess I'll have to allow myself some Shakti stones ;-)

--
Sander de Waal
" SOA of a KT88? Sufficient. "

Paul Dormer wrote:


"Michael McKelvy" emitted :

If you really want to see what good FR is from a loudspeaker try this one:
http://www.stereophile.com/loudspeak...01/index6.html

Unfortunately it will cost you $85,000.

No, it will not.


S i g n a l @ l i n e o n e . n e t
-----------------------------------
It's Grim down south..




Quads, Martin Logans, and Magnepans are a lot less expensive. Of course,
you'll have to listen to them to appreciate them.

However, the next time you want a response curve to "enjoy", don't hesitate to
spend as much as possible. I would also recommendd asking the manufacturer if
the response curve is available in different extra-cost finishes as a desirable
option.



Bruce J. Richman

On 08 Feb 2005 21:21:50 GMT, (Bruce J. Richman)
wrote:

Paul Dormer wrote:


"Michael McKelvy" emitted :

If you really want to see what good FR is from a loudspeaker try this one:
http://www.stereophile.com/loudspeak...01/index6.html

Unfortunately it will cost you $85,000.

No, it will not.


S i g n a l @ l i n e o n e . n e t
-----------------------------------
It's Grim down south..




Quads, Martin Logans, and Magnepans are a lot less expensive. Of course,
you'll have to listen to them to appreciate them.

However, the next time you want a response curve to "enjoy", don't hesitate to
spend as much as possible. I would also recommendd asking the manufacturer if
the response curve is available in different extra-cost finishes as a desirable
option.

That is very similar to the Dynaudio speaker system I heard in Hamburg
about 4 years ago. It was certainly in the same price class. Color me
unimpressed. It was driven by about $200,000 worth of MBL monoblocks,
preamps and god-knows what outrageously priced CD player. Although I
wasn't in the "sweet spot", which was reserved for a couple of black
clad schicki-mickis, I was able to listen for about 15 minutes from
further back in the room and it was 15 minutes of univolving sound.
Pretty bland, if you ask me.

I would have been far more interested in hearing the MBL pod speakers
that were sitting unconnected on the side. I've never heard those
pulsating hemispheres and would have really liked hearing them.

On Tue, 08 Feb 2005 17:06:22 -0600, dave weil
wrote:

On 08 Feb 2005 21:21:50 GMT, (Bruce J. Richman)
wrote:

Paul Dormer wrote:


"Michael McKelvy" emitted :

If you really want to see what good FR is from a loudspeaker try this one:
http://www.stereophile.com/loudspeak...01/index6.html

Unfortunately it will cost you $85,000.

No, it will not.


S i g n a l @ l i n e o n e . n e t
-----------------------------------
It's Grim down south..




Quads, Martin Logans, and Magnepans are a lot less expensive. Of course,
you'll have to listen to them to appreciate them.

However, the next time you want a response curve to "enjoy", don't hesitate to
spend as much as possible. I would also recommendd asking the manufacturer if
the response curve is available in different extra-cost finishes as a desirable
option.

That is very similar to the Dynaudio speaker system I heard in Hamburg
about 4 years ago. It was certainly in the same price class. Color me
unimpressed. It was driven by about $200,000 worth of MBL monoblocks,
preamps and god-knows what outrageously priced CD player. Although I
wasn't in the "sweet spot", which was reserved for a couple of black
clad schicki-mickis, I was able to listen for about 15 minutes from
further back in the room and it was 15 minutes of univolving sound.
Pretty bland, if you ask me.

I would have been far more interested in hearing the MBL pod speakers
that were sitting unconnected on the side. I've never heard those
pulsating hemispheres and would have really liked hearing them.

A correction - what I heard was the price equivalent to the flagship
model, not the model pictured in the review. I'm pretty sure that it
was the flagship model at the time.

dave weil wrote:

On 08 Feb 2005 21:21:50 GMT, (Bruce J. Richman)
wrote:


Paul Dormer wrote:



"Michael McKelvy" emitted :


If you really want to see what good FR is from a loudspeaker try this one:
http://www.stereophile.com/loudspeak...01/index6.html

Unfortunately it will cost you $85,000.

No, it will not.


S i g n a l @ l i n e o n e . n e t
-----------------------------------
It's Grim down south..




Quads, Martin Logans, and Magnepans are a lot less expensive. Of course,
you'll have to listen to them to appreciate them.

However, the next time you want a response curve to "enjoy", don't hesitate to
spend as much as possible. I would also recommendd asking the manufacturer if
the response curve is available in different extra-cost finishes as a desirable
option.


That is very similar to the Dynaudio speaker system I heard in Hamburg
about 4 years ago. It was certainly in the same price class. Color me
unimpressed.

I have also listened to the dynaudio flagship model, some 30 minutes
before I lost interest, at my local dealer. It was like walking along
the corridors of some squeaky clean hospital. All music coming out was
first taken to the dry-cleaners, then disinfected, etc, then served on a
platter by some bunny-hopping white-clad, breastless ballerina.

On Wed, 09 Feb 2005 10:56:47 +0200, Fella wrote:

dave weil wrote:

On 08 Feb 2005 21:21:50 GMT, (Bruce J. Richman)
wrote:


Paul Dormer wrote:



"Michael McKelvy" emitted :


If you really want to see what good FR is from a loudspeaker try this one:
http://www.stereophile.com/loudspeak...01/index6.html

Unfortunately it will cost you $85,000.

No, it will not.


S i g n a l @ l i n e o n e . n e t
-----------------------------------
It's Grim down south..




Quads, Martin Logans, and Magnepans are a lot less expensive. Of course,
you'll have to listen to them to appreciate them.

However, the next time you want a response curve to "enjoy", don't hesitate to
spend as much as possible. I would also recommendd asking the manufacturer if
the response curve is available in different extra-cost finishes as a desirable
option.


That is very similar to the Dynaudio speaker system I heard in Hamburg
about 4 years ago. It was certainly in the same price class. Color me
unimpressed.

I have also listened to the dynaudio flagship model, some 30 minutes
before I lost interest, at my local dealer. It was like walking along
the corridors of some squeaky clean hospital. All music coming out was
first taken to the dry-cleaners, then disinfected, etc, then served on a
platter by some bunny-hopping white-clad, breastless ballerina.

That's a far better description than I was able to muster!

I don't say that my opinion is absolute though. I was definitely
listening from a less-than-optimum position. Plus, I didn't think that
the speakers were set up very well in the room. The room was about 25
feet by 18 feet and the speakers were almost against the back wall.
The "listening position" was a leather sofa about 10 feet from the
speakers, while I stood off to the left and about 10 feet behind the
sofa. Still, I've heard enough music in other similar conditions to
know when a speaker can grab me DESPITE the less-than-optimum
conditions. I think the word sterile sums it up. Bland would be
another word that comes to mind.

dave weil wrote:

On Wed, 09 Feb 2005 10:56:47 +0200, Fella wrote:


dave weil wrote:


On 08 Feb 2005 21:21:50 GMT, (Bruce J. Richman)
wrote:



Paul Dormer wrote:




"Michael McKelvy" emitted :



If you really want to see what good FR is from a loudspeaker try this one:
http://www.stereophile.com/loudspeak...01/index6.html

Unfortunately it will cost you $85,000.

No, it will not.


S i g n a l @ l i n e o n e . n e t
-----------------------------------
It's Grim down south..




Quads, Martin Logans, and Magnepans are a lot less expensive. Of course,
you'll have to listen to them to appreciate them.

However, the next time you want a response curve to "enjoy", don't hesitate to
spend as much as possible. I would also recommendd asking the manufacturer if
the response curve is available in different extra-cost finishes as a desirable
option.


That is very similar to the Dynaudio speaker system I heard in Hamburg
about 4 years ago. It was certainly in the same price class. Color me
unimpressed.

I have also listened to the dynaudio flagship model, some 30 minutes
before I lost interest, at my local dealer. It was like walking along
the corridors of some squeaky clean hospital. All music coming out was
first taken to the dry-cleaners, then disinfected, etc, then served on a
platter by some bunny-hopping white-clad, breastless ballerina.


That's a far better description than I was able to muster!

Thanks.


I don't say that my opinion is absolute though.

Though mine is, as an opinion. Since at one time I took a dynaudio model
home and auditioned (nothing so expensive as the those towers though)
them for a couple of weeks. In terms of enjoying music, probably the
most boring but clean two weeks of my life. I wouldn't use any dynaudio
model as my home speakers, all that I've heard up to now are too clean
and neutral.

They do have their moments of beauty, though. But in those moments you
are saying to yourself "Wow, some impressive sounds are coming out of
them towers there, those speakers are sounding good, smack-sharp clean
etc".. IOW, you are listening to the speakers, the equipment, with
almost no musical involvement.

But with sonus fabers, for instance, what speakers, amps, etc, all that
stuff just disappears.

I think the word sterile sums it up. Bland would be
another word that comes to mind.

Agreed. But different folks for different strokes, as it were. Some
people are specifically after their neutrality.

Paul Dormer wrote:


"Bruce J. Richman" emitted :

If you really want to see what good FR is from a loudspeaker try this one:
http://www.stereophile.com/loudspeak...01/index6.html

Unfortunately it will cost you $85,000.

No, it will not.

Quads, Martin Logans, and Magnepans are a lot less expensive. Of course,
you'll have to listen to them to appreciate them.

That's disgusting. How dare you suggest that folk listen to speakers
before appraising them. This certainly does NOT apply to Mr McPharmacy
-- who, as a wannabe speaker designer himself, does not need any first
hand experience to pass judgement.


However, the next time you want a response curve to "enjoy", don't hesitate
to
spend as much as possible. I would also recommendd asking the manufacturer
if
the response curve is available in different extra-cost finishes as a
desirable
option.

The beauty of this is you can reclaim living space by putting the
speakers into storage, and yet enjoy a gilt framed print of the FR in
your own home. Fun.



Excellent idea. LOT's. And for an extra dash of panache, one should try and
get a *signed* response curve, done by the measurement eggspurt.








S i g n a l @ l i n e o n e . n e t
-----------------------------------
It's Grim down south..








Bruce J. Richman