Re: Question for duh-Mikey

[Michael McKelvy]

"George M. Middius" > wrote in message
...
>
>
> Mickey, I noticed you've started complaining about people being mean to
> you.

Not just to me, bu the whle of RAO is jkust one giant pit of vitriol, with
you as a leader.

The first time, I laughed at the absurdity of the accusation. Then
> I realized you were ****ing serious! What a joke that is. Apparently you
> actually expect people to indulge your nastiness and irrationality.

I expect civilty from people.

Not
> to mention your seemigly infinite stupidity.
>
So, in Middius worl if you meet someone you deem less smart than yourself,
it's OK to be crude, vulgar and boorish?


> I would like to state at this juncture that yes, I do pity you. It's
> been obvious for a long time that your mental gears grind slowly and out
> of sync.

Coming from someone who mental inclination is to be sadistic and demeaning
to nearly everybody, your comments are not likely to keep me up nights.

Many of us also pity Krooger, but like you, Mr. **** is so
> over-the-top obnoxious that irritation and revulsion overcome our
> gentler emotions.
>

George, you have and continue to be worse than Arny in every way.

> Anyway, here's my question: Why do you expect people to pat you on the
> head when you say such immensely stupid and nasty things? NB: If you
> have any question about which of your statements fall into those
> categories, you can figure it out by examining the replies to your
> posts. Not just the ones from me, or Boon, or BJ, or any of the people
> on your enemies list. Over the years, many people have commented on how
> stupid and obnoxious you are.
>
> As an addendum, you could reduce the number of insults you receive by
> being less stupid. Food for thought.
>
You could reduce the overall level of vitriol on RAO by removing yourself
from it forever. You offer nothing in the discussion of audio topics, in
fact you seldom mention it.

[Michael McKelvy]

"George M. Middius" > wrote in message
...
>
>
> Mickey, I noticed you've started complaining about people being mean to
> you.

Not just to me, bu the whle of RAO is jkust one giant pit of vitriol, with
you as a leader.

The first time, I laughed at the absurdity of the accusation. Then
> I realized you were ****ing serious! What a joke that is. Apparently you
> actually expect people to indulge your nastiness and irrationality.

I expect civilty from people.

Not
> to mention your seemigly infinite stupidity.
>
So, in Middius worl if you meet someone you deem less smart than yourself,
it's OK to be crude, vulgar and boorish?


> I would like to state at this juncture that yes, I do pity you. It's
> been obvious for a long time that your mental gears grind slowly and out
> of sync.

Coming from someone who mental inclination is to be sadistic and demeaning
to nearly everybody, your comments are not likely to keep me up nights.

Many of us also pity Krooger, but like you, Mr. **** is so
> over-the-top obnoxious that irritation and revulsion overcome our
> gentler emotions.
>

George, you have and continue to be worse than Arny in every way.

> Anyway, here's my question: Why do you expect people to pat you on the
> head when you say such immensely stupid and nasty things? NB: If you
> have any question about which of your statements fall into those
> categories, you can figure it out by examining the replies to your
> posts. Not just the ones from me, or Boon, or BJ, or any of the people
> on your enemies list. Over the years, many people have commented on how
> stupid and obnoxious you are.
>
> As an addendum, you could reduce the number of insults you receive by
> being less stupid. Food for thought.
>
You could reduce the overall level of vitriol on RAO by removing yourself
from it forever. You offer nothing in the discussion of audio topics, in
fact you seldom mention it.

[Clyde Slick]

"George M. Middius" > wrote in message
...
>
>
> Mickey, I noticed you've started complaining about people being mean to
> you. The first time, I laughed at the absurdity of the accusation. Then
> I realized you were ****ing serious! What a joke that is. Apparently you
> actually expect people to indulge your nastiness and irrationality. Not
> to mention your seemigly infinite stupidity.
>
> I would like to state at this juncture that yes, I do pity you. It's
> been obvious for a long time that your mental gears grind slowly and out
> of sync. Many of us also pity Krooger, but like you, Mr. **** is so
> over-the-top obnoxious that irritation and revulsion overcome our
> gentler emotions.
>
> Anyway, here's my question: Why do you expect people to pat you on the
> head when you say such immensely stupid and nasty things? NB: If you
> have any question about which of your statements fall into those
> categories, you can figure it out by examining the replies to your
> posts. Not just the ones from me, or Boon, or BJ, or any of the people
> on your enemies list. Over the years, many people have commented on how
> stupid and obnoxious you are.
>
> As an addendum, you could reduce the number of insults you receive by
> being less stupid. Food for thought.
>

It's no use, his stupidity is eclipsed by only his total lack of self
awareness.
That is his underlying problem, that is why he is utterly amazed that
those that he offends ove a long period of time would have the audacity
to finally begin dumping back on him.

I pitied him for quite a while, its been years now. The string has run out
now.

Imagine, if possible, a version of Krueger, but far stupider. I know, it's
hard to imagine,
but that's what he is.

[Clyde Slick]

"George M. Middius" > wrote in message
...
>
>
> Mickey, I noticed you've started complaining about people being mean to
> you. The first time, I laughed at the absurdity of the accusation. Then
> I realized you were ****ing serious! What a joke that is. Apparently you
> actually expect people to indulge your nastiness and irrationality. Not
> to mention your seemigly infinite stupidity.
>
> I would like to state at this juncture that yes, I do pity you. It's
> been obvious for a long time that your mental gears grind slowly and out
> of sync. Many of us also pity Krooger, but like you, Mr. **** is so
> over-the-top obnoxious that irritation and revulsion overcome our
> gentler emotions.
>
> Anyway, here's my question: Why do you expect people to pat you on the
> head when you say such immensely stupid and nasty things? NB: If you
> have any question about which of your statements fall into those
> categories, you can figure it out by examining the replies to your
> posts. Not just the ones from me, or Boon, or BJ, or any of the people
> on your enemies list. Over the years, many people have commented on how
> stupid and obnoxious you are.
>
> As an addendum, you could reduce the number of insults you receive by
> being less stupid. Food for thought.
>

It's no use, his stupidity is eclipsed by only his total lack of self
awareness.
That is his underlying problem, that is why he is utterly amazed that
those that he offends ove a long period of time would have the audacity
to finally begin dumping back on him.

I pitied him for quite a while, its been years now. The string has run out
now.

Imagine, if possible, a version of Krueger, but far stupider. I know, it's
hard to imagine,
but that's what he is.

[Clyde Slick]

"Michael McKelvy" > wrote in message
ink.net...
>
> "George M. Middius" > wrote in message
> ...

What did I tell you? Mikey is hopeless.

[Michael McKelvy]

"George M. Middius" > wrote in message
...
>
>
> duh-Mikey said:
>
>> > As an addendum, you could reduce the number of insults you receive by
>> > being less stupid. Food for thought.
>
>> You could reduce the overall level of vitriol on RAO by removing yourself
>> from it forever.
>
> Isn't that pretty much what Boon's been saying to you?
>
The difference is I can and do post on topic for the group and don't
generally attack people for the "crime" of what they think about audio.

You on the other hand nearly always post attacks and almost never post about
audio.

>> You offer nothing in the discussion of audio topics, in
>> fact you seldom mention it.
>
> Does that bother you? BTW, kudos on a grammatically correct sentence, even
> though you contradicted yourself in the space of a single comma. Saying
> "nothing", you see, is distinctly different from "seldom mentioning" a
> topic. If only you had begun with "You offer almost nothing...", then you
> wouldn't have shown us, yet again, how stupid you are.
>
> And without counting my posts about audio per se, I'll observe that it's
> better to give no opinions than to give stupid and ill-informed ones. Does
> your mileage vary? ;-)
>
>
My opinion on audio are based on practical experience, personal preference,
and electronics. That may stupid and ill-informed for you, but you are not
everybody.

[Michael McKelvy]

"Clyde Slick" > wrote in message
...
>
> "George M. Middius" > wrote in message
> ...
>>
>>
>> Mickey, I noticed you've started complaining about people being mean to
>> you. The first time, I laughed at the absurdity of the accusation. Then
>> I realized you were ****ing serious! What a joke that is. Apparently you
>> actually expect people to indulge your nastiness and irrationality. Not
>> to mention your seemigly infinite stupidity.
>>
>> I would like to state at this juncture that yes, I do pity you. It's
>> been obvious for a long time that your mental gears grind slowly and out
>> of sync. Many of us also pity Krooger, but like you, Mr. **** is so
>> over-the-top obnoxious that irritation and revulsion overcome our
>> gentler emotions.
>>
>> Anyway, here's my question: Why do you expect people to pat you on the
>> head when you say such immensely stupid and nasty things? NB: If you
>> have any question about which of your statements fall into those
>> categories, you can figure it out by examining the replies to your
>> posts. Not just the ones from me, or Boon, or BJ, or any of the people
>> on your enemies list. Over the years, many people have commented on how
>> stupid and obnoxious you are.
>>
>> As an addendum, you could reduce the number of insults you receive by
>> being less stupid. Food for thought.
>>
>
> It's no use, his stupidity is eclipsed by only his total lack of self
> awareness.
> That is his underlying problem, that is why he is utterly amazed that
> those that he offends ove a long period of time would have the audacity
> to finally begin dumping back on him.
>
Nice revisionist history.

Except for very rare occaisons when I thought someone'e behavior was just
flat out over the top, I have not attacked people in any audio discussion.

Off topic stuff, particularly about politics was generally incited by
somebody like Sanders in which I tried to present another viewpoint.

> I pitied him for quite a while, its been years now. The string has run out
> now.
>
Whatever excuse you can find for being vicious and boorish. Note that I
never said anything bad about you even when we disagreed. You on the other
hand when I wouldn't just concede your viwepoint was correct would then
holler "stupid." If you think I'm going to now think I'm the big bad guy
here, you better think again.

[Clyde Slick]

"Michael McKelvy" > wrote in message
link.net...
>
> "Clyde Slick" > wrote in message
> ...
>>
>> "George M. Middius" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>>
>>>
>>> Mickey, I noticed you've started complaining about people being mean to
>>> you. The first time, I laughed at the absurdity of the accusation. Then
>>> I realized you were ****ing serious! What a joke that is. Apparently you
>>> actually expect people to indulge your nastiness and irrationality. Not
>>> to mention your seemigly infinite stupidity.
>>>
>>> I would like to state at this juncture that yes, I do pity you. It's
>>> been obvious for a long time that your mental gears grind slowly and out
>>> of sync. Many of us also pity Krooger, but like you, Mr. **** is so
>>> over-the-top obnoxious that irritation and revulsion overcome our
>>> gentler emotions.
>>>
>>> Anyway, here's my question: Why do you expect people to pat you on the
>>> head when you say such immensely stupid and nasty things? NB: If you
>>> have any question about which of your statements fall into those
>>> categories, you can figure it out by examining the replies to your
>>> posts. Not just the ones from me, or Boon, or BJ, or any of the people
>>> on your enemies list. Over the years, many people have commented on how
>>> stupid and obnoxious you are.
>>>
>>> As an addendum, you could reduce the number of insults you receive by
>>> being less stupid. Food for thought.
>>>
>>
>> It's no use, his stupidity is eclipsed by only his total lack of self
>> awareness.
>> That is his underlying problem, that is why he is utterly amazed that
>> those that he offends ove a long period of time would have the audacity
>> to finally begin dumping back on him.
>>
> Nice revisionist history.
>
> Except for very rare occaisons when I thought someone'e behavior was just
> flat out over the top, I have not attacked people in any audio discussion.
>
> Off topic stuff, particularly about politics was generally incited by
> somebody like Sanders in which I tried to present another viewpoint.
>
>> I pitied him for quite a while, its been years now. The string has run
>> out now.
>>
> Whatever excuse you can find for being vicious and boorish. Note that I
> never said anything bad about you even when we disagreed. You on the
> other hand when I wouldn't just concede your viwepoint was correct would
> then holler "stupid." If you think I'm going to now think I'm the big bad
> guy here, you better think again.
>
>

Anybody who thinks we can build a highway sysytem without use of
eminent domain is eminently stupid, and that's de facto!

[Michael McKelvy]

"Clyde Slick" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Michael McKelvy" > wrote in message
> link.net...
>>
>> "Clyde Slick" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>>
>>> "George M. Middius" > wrote in message
>>> ...
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Mickey, I noticed you've started complaining about people being mean to
>>>> you. The first time, I laughed at the absurdity of the accusation. Then
>>>> I realized you were ****ing serious! What a joke that is. Apparently
>>>> you
>>>> actually expect people to indulge your nastiness and irrationality. Not
>>>> to mention your seemigly infinite stupidity.
>>>>
>>>> I would like to state at this juncture that yes, I do pity you. It's
>>>> been obvious for a long time that your mental gears grind slowly and
>>>> out
>>>> of sync. Many of us also pity Krooger, but like you, Mr. **** is so
>>>> over-the-top obnoxious that irritation and revulsion overcome our
>>>> gentler emotions.
>>>>
>>>> Anyway, here's my question: Why do you expect people to pat you on the
>>>> head when you say such immensely stupid and nasty things? NB: If you
>>>> have any question about which of your statements fall into those
>>>> categories, you can figure it out by examining the replies to your
>>>> posts. Not just the ones from me, or Boon, or BJ, or any of the people
>>>> on your enemies list. Over the years, many people have commented on how
>>>> stupid and obnoxious you are.
>>>>
>>>> As an addendum, you could reduce the number of insults you receive by
>>>> being less stupid. Food for thought.
>>>>
>>>
>>> It's no use, his stupidity is eclipsed by only his total lack of self
>>> awareness.
>>> That is his underlying problem, that is why he is utterly amazed that
>>> those that he offends ove a long period of time would have the audacity
>>> to finally begin dumping back on him.
>>>
>> Nice revisionist history.
>>
>> Except for very rare occaisons when I thought someone'e behavior was just
>> flat out over the top, I have not attacked people in any audio
>> discussion.
>>
>> Off topic stuff, particularly about politics was generally incited by
>> somebody like Sanders in which I tried to present another viewpoint.
>>
>>> I pitied him for quite a while, its been years now. The string has run
>>> out now.
>>>
>> Whatever excuse you can find for being vicious and boorish. Note that I
>> never said anything bad about you even when we disagreed. You on the
>> other hand when I wouldn't just concede your viwepoint was correct would
>> then holler "stupid." If you think I'm going to now think I'm the big bad
>> guy here, you better think again.
>>
>>
>
> Anybody who thinks we can build a highway sysytem without use of
> eminent domain is eminently stupid, and that's de facto!
>
In your opinion.

[Clyde Slick]

"Michael McKelvy" > wrote in message
ink.net...
>
> "Clyde Slick" > wrote in message
> ...
>>
>> "Michael McKelvy" > wrote in message
>> link.net...
>>>
>>> "Clyde Slick" > wrote in message
>>> ...
>>>>
>>>> "George M. Middius" > wrote in message
>>>> ...
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Mickey, I noticed you've started complaining about people being mean
>>>>> to
>>>>> you. The first time, I laughed at the absurdity of the accusation.
>>>>> Then
>>>>> I realized you were ****ing serious! What a joke that is. Apparently
>>>>> you
>>>>> actually expect people to indulge your nastiness and irrationality.
>>>>> Not
>>>>> to mention your seemigly infinite stupidity.
>>>>>
>>>>> I would like to state at this juncture that yes, I do pity you. It's
>>>>> been obvious for a long time that your mental gears grind slowly and
>>>>> out
>>>>> of sync. Many of us also pity Krooger, but like you, Mr. **** is so
>>>>> over-the-top obnoxious that irritation and revulsion overcome our
>>>>> gentler emotions.
>>>>>
>>>>> Anyway, here's my question: Why do you expect people to pat you on the
>>>>> head when you say such immensely stupid and nasty things? NB: If you
>>>>> have any question about which of your statements fall into those
>>>>> categories, you can figure it out by examining the replies to your
>>>>> posts. Not just the ones from me, or Boon, or BJ, or any of the people
>>>>> on your enemies list. Over the years, many people have commented on
>>>>> how
>>>>> stupid and obnoxious you are.
>>>>>
>>>>> As an addendum, you could reduce the number of insults you receive by
>>>>> being less stupid. Food for thought.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> It's no use, his stupidity is eclipsed by only his total lack of self
>>>> awareness.
>>>> That is his underlying problem, that is why he is utterly amazed that
>>>> those that he offends ove a long period of time would have the audacity
>>>> to finally begin dumping back on him.
>>>>
>>> Nice revisionist history.
>>>
>>> Except for very rare occaisons when I thought someone'e behavior was
>>> just flat out over the top, I have not attacked people in any audio
>>> discussion.
>>>
>>> Off topic stuff, particularly about politics was generally incited by
>>> somebody like Sanders in which I tried to present another viewpoint.
>>>
>>>> I pitied him for quite a while, its been years now. The string has run
>>>> out now.
>>>>
>>> Whatever excuse you can find for being vicious and boorish. Note that I
>>> never said anything bad about you even when we disagreed. You on the
>>> other hand when I wouldn't just concede your viwepoint was correct would
>>> then holler "stupid." If you think I'm going to now think I'm the big
>>> bad guy here, you better think again.
>>>
>>>
>>
>> Anybody who thinks we can build a highway sysytem without use of
>> eminent domain is eminently stupid, and that's de facto!
>>
> In your opinion.
>

There hasn't been any high way systems built based upon your opinion of the
matter.
There have been hundreds built based upon my opinion of the matter.

[Arny Krueger]

Clyde Slick wrote:

> There hasn't been any high way systems built based upon your opinion
of the
> matter.

Delusions of omniscience noted.

> There have been hundreds built based upon my opinion of the matter.

Just for grins Art, why don't you give us an example of one of these
influential opinons that you origionated and resulted in the
construction of 100's of high way audio systems.

I have a friend who basically designed and voiced every audio system
installed in the Jeep Liberty by Chrysler. About 100,000 Jeep Libertys
have been sold, so I guess its safe to say that about 100,000 high way
systems have been built based on his opinons in the matter.

[Michael McKelvy]

"Clyde Slick" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Michael McKelvy" > wrote in message
> ink.net...
>>
>> "Clyde Slick" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>>
>>> "Michael McKelvy" > wrote in message
>>> link.net...
>>>>
>>>> "Clyde Slick" > wrote in message
>>>> ...
>>>>>
>>>>> "George M. Middius" > wrote in message
>>>>> ...
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Mickey, I noticed you've started complaining about people being mean
>>>>>> to
>>>>>> you. The first time, I laughed at the absurdity of the accusation.
>>>>>> Then
>>>>>> I realized you were ****ing serious! What a joke that is. Apparently
>>>>>> you
>>>>>> actually expect people to indulge your nastiness and irrationality.
>>>>>> Not
>>>>>> to mention your seemigly infinite stupidity.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I would like to state at this juncture that yes, I do pity you. It's
>>>>>> been obvious for a long time that your mental gears grind slowly and
>>>>>> out
>>>>>> of sync. Many of us also pity Krooger, but like you, Mr. **** is so
>>>>>> over-the-top obnoxious that irritation and revulsion overcome our
>>>>>> gentler emotions.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Anyway, here's my question: Why do you expect people to pat you on
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> head when you say such immensely stupid and nasty things? NB: If you
>>>>>> have any question about which of your statements fall into those
>>>>>> categories, you can figure it out by examining the replies to your
>>>>>> posts. Not just the ones from me, or Boon, or BJ, or any of the
>>>>>> people
>>>>>> on your enemies list. Over the years, many people have commented on
>>>>>> how
>>>>>> stupid and obnoxious you are.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> As an addendum, you could reduce the number of insults you receive by
>>>>>> being less stupid. Food for thought.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> It's no use, his stupidity is eclipsed by only his total lack of self
>>>>> awareness.
>>>>> That is his underlying problem, that is why he is utterly amazed that
>>>>> those that he offends ove a long period of time would have the
>>>>> audacity
>>>>> to finally begin dumping back on him.
>>>>>
>>>> Nice revisionist history.
>>>>
>>>> Except for very rare occaisons when I thought someone'e behavior was
>>>> just flat out over the top, I have not attacked people in any audio
>>>> discussion.
>>>>
>>>> Off topic stuff, particularly about politics was generally incited by
>>>> somebody like Sanders in which I tried to present another viewpoint.
>>>>
>>>>> I pitied him for quite a while, its been years now. The string has run
>>>>> out now.
>>>>>
>>>> Whatever excuse you can find for being vicious and boorish. Note that
>>>> I never said anything bad about you even when we disagreed. You on the
>>>> other hand when I wouldn't just concede your viwepoint was correct
>>>> would then holler "stupid." If you think I'm going to now think I'm the
>>>> big bad guy here, you better think again.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> Anybody who thinks we can build a highway sysytem without use of
>>> eminent domain is eminently stupid, and that's de facto!
>>>
>> In your opinion.
>>
>
> There hasn't been any high way systems built based upon your opinion of
> the matter.
> There have been hundreds built based upon my opinion of the matter.
>
The principle is still the same for me. Government should not be able to
separate people from their property by force.

Do I expect to see my ideal of the way things ought to be in my lifetime?
No. That doesn't mean the principle is incorrect.

[Fella]

George M. Middius wrote:

>
> Mickey, I noticed you've started complaining about people being mean to
> you. The first time, I laughed at the absurdity of the accusation. Then
> I realized you were ****ing serious! What a joke that is. Apparently you
> actually expect people to indulge your nastiness and irrationality. Not
> to mention your seemigly infinite stupidity.
>

He is a foul, useless, mental-polution stupid kind of stupid that lacks
any form or kind of an explanation or justification.

Let me explain: I started reading/writing in this group some months ago.
Didn't know any micheal mckelvy before that. Had no grudge on him or any
ill-will for him. Just like towards all other members of the group. So
his stupid-polution was completely unsolicited. Here's what happened : I
had answered a question regarding speakers, someone was seeking
*opinions* as to which speaker, etc, so I suggested my favourite brand :
Sonus Faber. This duh!mikey had previously polluted the thread by first
stating that (direct quote): "As to speakers, they are the weakest link
in the audio chain sinc e they are subject to room interaction and the
fact that designs and drivers ahve gross differences from manufacturer
to manufacturer"

Then he goes on about Sonus Faber (again direct quote): "The only reason
IMO to go with Sonus Faber is looks, since the sound the impart can be
gotten in other brands or in kits." Contradicting himself in the process..

So you buy a "kit" for $300, put it together, and it "imparts" the same
sound as (for instance) a Sonus Faber Stradivari! And while shooting
stupid from the hip, he doesn't mention which kits or other brands
impart the same sound as Sonus Fabers. :)

It's just mind-boggling HOW someone would be so much of a stupid to 1)
Contradict himself in such a gross way in a given thread. 2) Spew forth
completely unsolicited stupid that lacks any kind of explanation
inner-logic, etc.. Stupid that just suddenly explodes all over the place
leaving behind this stench, this polution, this piles and piles of ****
to clean up, this bad bad feeling. :(

[Clyde Slick]

"Michael McKelvy" > wrote in message
ink.net...
>
> "Clyde Slick" > wrote in message
> ...
>>
>> "Michael McKelvy" > wrote in message
>> ink.net...
>>>
>>> "Clyde Slick" > wrote in message
>>> ...
>>>>
>>>> "Michael McKelvy" > wrote in message
>>>> link.net...
>>>>>
>>>>> "Clyde Slick" > wrote in message
>>>>> ...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "George M. Middius" > wrote in message
>>>>>> ...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Mickey, I noticed you've started complaining about people being mean
>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>> you. The first time, I laughed at the absurdity of the accusation.
>>>>>>> Then
>>>>>>> I realized you were ****ing serious! What a joke that is. Apparently
>>>>>>> you
>>>>>>> actually expect people to indulge your nastiness and irrationality.
>>>>>>> Not
>>>>>>> to mention your seemigly infinite stupidity.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I would like to state at this juncture that yes, I do pity you. It's
>>>>>>> been obvious for a long time that your mental gears grind slowly and
>>>>>>> out
>>>>>>> of sync. Many of us also pity Krooger, but like you, Mr. **** is so
>>>>>>> over-the-top obnoxious that irritation and revulsion overcome our
>>>>>>> gentler emotions.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Anyway, here's my question: Why do you expect people to pat you on
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> head when you say such immensely stupid and nasty things? NB: If you
>>>>>>> have any question about which of your statements fall into those
>>>>>>> categories, you can figure it out by examining the replies to your
>>>>>>> posts. Not just the ones from me, or Boon, or BJ, or any of the
>>>>>>> people
>>>>>>> on your enemies list. Over the years, many people have commented on
>>>>>>> how
>>>>>>> stupid and obnoxious you are.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> As an addendum, you could reduce the number of insults you receive
>>>>>>> by
>>>>>>> being less stupid. Food for thought.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It's no use, his stupidity is eclipsed by only his total lack of self
>>>>>> awareness.
>>>>>> That is his underlying problem, that is why he is utterly amazed that
>>>>>> those that he offends ove a long period of time would have the
>>>>>> audacity
>>>>>> to finally begin dumping back on him.
>>>>>>
>>>>> Nice revisionist history.
>>>>>
>>>>> Except for very rare occaisons when I thought someone'e behavior was
>>>>> just flat out over the top, I have not attacked people in any audio
>>>>> discussion.
>>>>>
>>>>> Off topic stuff, particularly about politics was generally incited by
>>>>> somebody like Sanders in which I tried to present another viewpoint.
>>>>>
>>>>>> I pitied him for quite a while, its been years now. The string has
>>>>>> run out now.
>>>>>>
>>>>> Whatever excuse you can find for being vicious and boorish. Note that
>>>>> I never said anything bad about you even when we disagreed. You on
>>>>> the other hand when I wouldn't just concede your viwepoint was correct
>>>>> would then holler "stupid." If you think I'm going to now think I'm
>>>>> the big bad guy here, you better think again.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Anybody who thinks we can build a highway sysytem without use of
>>>> eminent domain is eminently stupid, and that's de facto!
>>>>
>>> In your opinion.
>>>
>>
>> There hasn't been any high way systems built based upon your opinion of
>> the matter.
>> There have been hundreds built based upon my opinion of the matter.
>>
> The principle is still the same for me. Government should not be able to
> separate people from their property by force.
>
> Do I expect to see my ideal of the way things ought to be in my lifetime?
> No. That doesn't mean the principle is incorrect.
>

Do you care more about principles, or whether there are public
roads so that the mailman can drive to your house and deliver
your disability check?

What do you think of your mentor's foray into this thread, babbling on
about "highway audio systems"? Are you going to
become as confused as he is?

[Marc Phillips]

Arny said:

>I have a friend who basically designed and voiced every audio system
>installed in the Jeep Liberty by Chrysler. About 100,000 Jeep Libertys
>have been sold, so I guess its safe to say that about 100,000 high way
>systems have been built based on his opinons in the matter.

You bought one of those pieces of ****, didn't you.

Boon

[Arny Krueger]

Marc Phillips wrote:
> Arny said:
>
> >I have a friend who basically designed and voiced every audio system
> >installed in the Jeep Liberty by Chrysler. About 100,000 Jeep
Libertys
> >have been sold, so I guess its safe to say that about 100,000 high
way
> >systems have been built based on his opinons in the matter.

> You bought one of those pieces of ****, didn't you.

The only POS notable in this discussion Phillips is in your mouth. But,
for the record I am not the owner of a Jeep Liberty. I have no SUVs
whatsover.

[Arny Krueger]

Fella wrote:

> This duh!mikey had previously polluted the thread by first
> stating that (direct quote): "As to speakers, they are the weakest
link
> in the audio chain since they are subject to room interaction and the

> fact that designs and drivers have gross differences from
manufacturer
> to manufacturer"

Well Fella, the only pollution I see here is your rousing condemnation
of Mike for telling a truth. Speakers and their interactions with rooms
are the weakest links in the audio chain, closely followed by
microphones and their interactions with performers and performance
spaces.

> Then he goes on about Sonus Faber (again direct quote): "The only
reason
> IMO to go with Sonus Faber is looks, since the sound they impart can
be
> gotten in other brands or in kits." Contradicting himself in the
process..

Again Fella, you obviously need to engage your brain before you unleash
your fingers on the Usenet world. Mike has again shared an important
truth with you.


> So you buy a "kit" for $300, put it together, and it "imparts" the
same
> sound as (for instance) a Sonus Faber Stradivari!

Of course that isn't what Mike said Fella, and you further diminish
your highly tarnished reputation arouhd here by stuffing those vile
words into Mike's mouth.

> And while shooting
> stupid from the hip, he doesn't mention which kits or other brands
> impart the same sound as Sonus Fabers. :)

The true goal is obviously not to impart the same sound as the
over-priced, over-styled and under-engineered Fabers, but to impart a
sound that has superior quality.

> It's just mind-boggling HOW someone would be so much of a stupid to
1)
> Contradict himself in such a gross way in a given thread.

The claimed contradiction exist only in your beknighted mind, Fella.

>2) Spew forth
> completely unsolicited stupid that lacks any kind of explanation
> inner-logic, etc..

As smart as you claim to be Fella, I'm amazed that you haven't figured
out the market segment that Sonus Faber is addressing. An oviously
badly needed hint for the audio tyro: Sonus Faber as a brand has more
do to with looks than sound quality.

> Stupid that just suddenly explodes all over the place
> leaving behind this stench, this polution, this piles and piles of
****
> to clean up, this bad bad feeling. :(

Since the shoe fits you so well Fella, why not realize that you're
wearing it?

[dave weil]

On 3 Jan 2005 07:33:10 -0800, "Arny Krueger" >
wrote:

>
>Marc Phillips wrote:
>> Arny said:
>>
>> >I have a friend who basically designed and voiced every audio system
>> >installed in the Jeep Liberty by Chrysler. About 100,000 Jeep
>Libertys
>> >have been sold, so I guess its safe to say that about 100,000 high
>way
>> >systems have been built based on his opinons in the matter.
>
>> You bought one of those pieces of ****, didn't you.
>
>The only POS notable in this discussion Phillips is in your mouth. But,
>for the record I am not the owner of a Jeep Liberty. I have no SUVs
>whatsover.

Well, also for the record, the fact that you know someone who designed
the Jeep Liberty sound system was an irrelevant point from the get-go.

[Arny Krueger]

Clyde Slick wrote:

> What do you think of your mentor's foray into this thread, babbling
on
> about "highway audio systems"? Are you going to
> become as confused as he is?

Showing once again that the simplest pun on Art's incessant and inane
off-topic posting is way over his head.

[Sander deWaal]

"Arny Krueger" > said:

>As smart as you claim to be Fella, I'm amazed that you haven't figured
>out the market segment that Sonus Faber is addressing. An oviously
>badly needed hint for the audio tyro: Sonus Faber as a brand has more
>do to with looks than sound quality.

Is that a fact or an opinion?
Have you ever heard any of their models?

--
Sander de Waal
" SOA of a KT88? Sufficient. "

[Joseph Oberlander]

Michael McKelvy wrote:

> The principle is still the same for me. Government should not be able to
> separate people from their property by force.

Mikey forgot the "except outside of U.S. borders" part.

[Joseph Oberlander]

Marc Phillips wrote:

> Arny said:
>
>
>>I have a friend who basically designed and voiced every audio system
>>installed in the Jeep Liberty by Chrysler. About 100,000 Jeep Libertys
>>have been sold, so I guess its safe to say that about 100,000 high way
>>systems have been built based on his opinons in the matter.
>
>
> You bought one of those pieces of ****, didn't you.

I would love to show him the Liberty my friend has and
how it kept being towed out of and over things while
my other friend and her were offroading. His old Bronco
had no problems. Neither did his Wrangler a few months
later. The Liberty is a yuppie toy offroad.

That aside, factory sound systems stink with the exception
of a few of the Lexus and Volvos(Mercedes fails because
they still don't see a CD player as standard equipment
and it's integrated into the security system, for instance).
$1200 for an audio system that you could beat with stock
Kenwood parts and $600 at your local audio sound store - some
price savings. Factory options are the biggest scam in
the automotive industry.

[Michael McKelvy]

"Fella" > wrote in message
.. .
> George M. Middius wrote:
>
>>
>> Mickey, I noticed you've started complaining about people being mean to
>> you. The first time, I laughed at the absurdity of the accusation. Then
>> I realized you were ****ing serious! What a joke that is. Apparently you
>> actually expect people to indulge your nastiness and irrationality. Not
>> to mention your seemigly infinite stupidity.
>>
>
> He is a foul, useless, mental-polution stupid kind of stupid that lacks
> any form or kind of an explanation or justification.
>
> Let me explain: I started reading/writing in this group some months ago.
> Didn't know any micheal mckelvy before that. Had no grudge on him or any
> ill-will for him. Just like towards all other members of the group. So his
> stupid-polution was completely unsolicited. Here's what happened : I had
> answered a question regarding speakers, someone was seeking *opinions* as
> to which speaker, etc, so I suggested my favourite brand : Sonus Faber.
> This duh!mikey had previously polluted the thread by first stating that
> (direct quote): "As to speakers, they are the weakest link in the audio
> chain sinc e they are subject to room interaction and the fact that
> designs and drivers ahve gross differences from manufacturer to
> manufacturer"
>

This is a true statement.

> Then he goes on about Sonus Faber (again direct quote): "The only reason
> IMO to go with Sonus Faber is looks, since the sound they impart can be
> gotten in other brands or in kits." Contradicting himself in the process..
>

It wasn't a contradiction. The drive units in a Sonus Faber speaker are, or
at least were available for DIY. The Dynaudio tweeter is now hard to come
by but I beleive a few outlests still have some in stock. This makes it
possible for someone with the skills and equipment to get the same sound
without the overpriced (IMO) cabinetry.

> So you buy a "kit" for $300, put it together

The tweeters alone are over $600.00.

, and it "imparts" the same
> sound as (for instance) a Sonus Faber Stradivari! And while shooting
> stupid from the hip, he doesn't mention which kits or other brands impart
> the same sound as Sonus Fabers. :)
>
There is not kit that duplicates the Sonus Faber, it would have to be a DIY
design. Of course if you were as smart as you think ou are, you'd
understand that I didn't say there was such a kit.

It certainly is possible to get hold of a Dynaudio T330 tweeter and a
Scan-Speak woofer and with proper equipment, design a system that equals the
Sonus Faber. That is not the same as saying that if you want a Sonus Faber
you shouldn't get one, only that I think they are over priced. YMMV.

[Michael McKelvy]

"Paul Dormer" > wrote in message
...
> "Arny Krueger" emitted :
>
>>The true goal is obviously not to impart the same sound as the
>>over-priced, over-styled and under-engineered Fabers, but to impart a
>>sound that has superior quality.
>>
>>...I'm amazed that you haven't figured
>>out the market segment that Sonus Faber is addressing. An oviously
>>badly needed hint for the audio tyro: Sonus Faber as a brand has more
>>do to with looks than sound quality.
>
> Newbie readers should completely disregard Mr Kruegers asinine
> comments regarding Sonus Faber. This is an extremely competent brand,
> producing highly regarded, highly enjoyable, exquisitely musical
> speakers.

Yes and they use drivers that are or were available to the DIY market.


The proof in the pudding is in the listening, which I doubt
> Mr Krueger has done. Note that this sicko takes exception to almost
> any product that is not utilitarian by design.
>
>
I don't see where he said it isn't utilitarian, only that it's more about
style than sound. I don't know that there is anything in the style of the
cabinets of Sonus Faber speakers that contributes anything special to the
radiation pattern of the sound coming from the drivers. They do make a
claim that their cabinet virtually eliminates resonance, AFAIK there is no
way to eliminate resonance, only to diminish it.

They are very nice to look at and the 2 way units I have heard sound very
nice, but not IMO worth what they ask. $40,000 for the Stradavari is a bit
much especially when compared to something like the Linkwitz Orion, designed
by a world class designer like Sigried Linkwitz, which IMO are better
looking. YMMV.

Check them out at www.madisound.com and click on the kits link and then the
Orion one.

[Michael McKelvy]

"Paul Dormer" > wrote in message
...
> "Michael McKelvy" emitted :
>
>>> Newbie readers should completely disregard Mr Kruegers asinine
>>> comments regarding Sonus Faber. This is an extremely competent brand,
>>> producing highly regarded, highly enjoyable, exquisitely musical
>>> speakers.
>>
>>Yes and they use drivers that are or were available to the DIY market.
>
> My amplifier also uses parts which available to the DIY market. If
> only I had the knowledge, experience, production facilities, etc etc
>
>> The proof in the pudding is in the listening, which I doubt
>>> Mr Krueger has done. Note that this sicko takes exception to almost
>>> any product that is not utilitarian by design.
>>>
>>I don't see where he said it isn't utilitarian, only that it's more about
>>style than sound.
>
> Congratulations on being partisan to an insult toward Sonus Faber
> owners worldwide!
>
What insult? They are beautiful speakers, they sound very nice as well.
Does that mean they can't be outdone in style and performance? I doubt it.

>>Check them out at www.madisound.com and click on the kits link and then
>>the
>>Orion one.
>
> I don't do kit speakers. I buy professionally designed products.
>
>
So Sigfried Linkwitz is not a professional designer in your onion?

One look at the Orion and I think you'd be very impressed. The sound great
as well.

You can order them as kit with or without blank circuit boards, or as a
fully assembled system ready to play for $6500.00 U.S. built to order.

Any way you look at it, these are impressive looking and sounding speakers.

[Lionel]

Michael McKelvy a écrit :

> So Sigfried Linkwitz is not a professional designer in your onion?

LOL ! :-)

[Michael McKelvy]

"Michael McKelvy" > wrote in message
k.net...
>
> "Paul Dormer" > wrote in message
> ...
>> "Michael McKelvy" emitted :
>>
>>>> Newbie readers should completely disregard Mr Kruegers asinine
>>>> comments regarding Sonus Faber. This is an extremely competent brand,
>>>> producing highly regarded, highly enjoyable, exquisitely musical
>>>> speakers.
>>>
>>>Yes and they use drivers that are or were available to the DIY market.
>>
>> My amplifier also uses parts which available to the DIY market. If
>> only I had the knowledge, experience, production facilities, etc etc
>>
>>> The proof in the pudding is in the listening, which I doubt
>>>> Mr Krueger has done. Note that this sicko takes exception to almost
>>>> any product that is not utilitarian by design.
>>>>
>>>I don't see where he said it isn't utilitarian, only that it's more about
>>>style than sound.
>>
>> Congratulations on being partisan to an insult toward Sonus Faber
>> owners worldwide!
>>
> What insult? They are beautiful speakers, they sound very nice as well.
> Does that mean they can't be outdone in style and performance? I doubt
> it.
>
>>>Check them out at www.madisound.com and click on the kits link and then
>>>the
>>>Orion one.
>>
>> I don't do kit speakers. I buy professionally designed products.
>>
>>
> So Sigfried Linkwitz is not a professional designer in your onion?
>

OK OK. That should be your opinion.


> One look at the Orion and I think you'd be very impressed. The sound
> great as well.
>
> You can order them as kit with or without blank circuit boards, or as a
> fully assembled system ready to play for $6500.00 U.S. built to order.
>
> Any way you look at it, these are impressive looking and sounding
> speakers.
>
>
>

[Michael McKelvy]

"Lionel" > wrote in message
...
> Michael McKelvy a écrit :
>
>> So Sigfried Linkwitz is not a professional designer in your onion?
>
> LOL ! :-)

Opinion, OK.

[Marc Phillips]

Arny said:

>Marc Phillips wrote:
>> Arny said:
>>
>> >I have a friend who basically designed and voiced every audio system
>> >installed in the Jeep Liberty by Chrysler. About 100,000 Jeep
>Libertys
>> >have been sold, so I guess its safe to say that about 100,000 high
>way
>> >systems have been built based on his opinons in the matter.
>
>> You bought one of those pieces of ****, didn't you.
>
>The only POS notable in this discussion Phillips is in your mouth. But,
>for the record I am not the owner of a Jeep Liberty. I have no SUVs
>whatsover.

Too bad. It would be a step up from your POS Mystique and POS Villager.

Boon

[Clyde Slick]

"Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
ups.com...
>
> Clyde Slick wrote:
>
>> What do you think of your mentor's foray into this thread, babbling
> on
>> about "highway audio systems"? Are you going to
>> become as confused as he is?
>
> Showing once again that the simplest pun on Art's incessant and inane
> off-topic posting is way over his head.

Nice lie!!!
you are totally insane. you have fallen off the deep end.

[Clyde Slick]

"Michael McKelvy" > wrote in message
.net...
>
>>
> I think that ones values should be non-contradictory. If it's not OK for
> an individual to separate you from your property, it should not be OK for
> government to do it.
>

Well, an individual can't compel you to pay taxes, and a government can.
An individual cannot put you in trial and sentence you to jail, but
a government can. An individual cannot comppel you to fight n a war,
and a government can.



>
>> What do you think of your mentor's foray into this thread, babbling on
>> about "highway audio systems"? Are you going to
>> become as confused as he is?
> None of my mentors is commenting on this thread.
>

[Michael McKelvy]

"Clyde Slick" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Michael McKelvy" > wrote in message
> .net...
>>
>>>
>> I think that ones values should be non-contradictory. If it's not OK for
>> an individual to separate you from your property, it should not be OK for
>> government to do it.
>>
>
> Well, an individual can't compel you to pay taxes, and a government can.
> An individual cannot put you in trial and sentence you to jail, but
> a government can. An individual cannot comppel you to fight n a war,
> and a government can.
>
Is there any point in rehashing all of this again?

[Arny Krueger]

Joseph Oberlander wrote:

> I would love to show him the Liberty my friend has and
> how it kept being towed out of and over things while
> my other friend and her were offroading. His old Bronco
> had no problems. Neither did his Wrangler a few months
> later. The Liberty is a yuppie toy offroad.

Darn, and here I thought this was an audio forum and the topic was
audio systems.

> That aside, factory sound systems stink with the exception
> of a few of the Lexus and Volvos(Mercedes fails because
> they still don't see a CD player as standard equipment
> and it's integrated into the security system, for instance).

Delusions of omnisicence noted.

> $1200 for an audio system that you could beat with stock
> Kenwood parts and $600 at your local audio sound store - some
> price savings. Factory options are the biggest scam in
> the automotive industry.

Additional delusions of omniscience and delusions of being a unbiased
judge of good sound, noted.

In fact there are any number of OEM sound systems that sound great. A
lot of what you pay for with a factory sound system isn't reflected in
the sound - its reflected in the fact that its built to last out the
rest of the car's warranty, which most after-market sound systems
aren't.

For example, OEMs pay about the same money or even a little more in
10,000 lots for receiver chassis as you'll pay for just one down at the
corner CarTunes shop. The major difference is how long the respective
devices are warranteed for, and how long they will actually, on the
average, last.

[Arny Krueger]

Clyde Slick wrote:
> "Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
> ups.com...
> >
> > Clyde Slick wrote:
> >
> >> What do you think of your mentor's foray into this thread,
babbling
> > on
> >> about "highway audio systems"? Are you going to
> >> become as confused as he is?
> >
> > Showing once again that the simplest pun on Art's incessant and
inane
> > off-topic posting is way over his head.
>
> Nice lie!!!

That what all the Middius clones say when they've tripped on their own
tongues.

> you are totally insane. you have fallen off the deep end.

No, I'm having several good laughs at your expense, Art. You've
compounded your illiteracy with the lack of intelligence required to
discern a simple pun.

[Arny Krueger]

Paul Dormer wrote:
> "Arny Krueger" emitted :
>
> >The true goal is obviously not to impart the same sound as the
> >over-priced, over-styled and under-engineered Fabers, but to impart
a
> >sound that has superior quality.
> >
> >...I'm amazed that you haven't figured
> >out the market segment that Sonus Faber is addressing. An oviously
> >badly needed hint for the audio tyro: Sonus Faber as a brand has
more
> >do to with looks than sound quality.
>
> Newbie readers should completely disregard Mr Kruegers asinine
> comments regarding Sonus Faber. This is an extremely competent brand,
> producing highly regarded, highly enjoyable, exquisitely musical
> speakers.

If anybody bothers to read what I actually wrote, they'll find zip,
nada that says otherwise. All I was trying to communicate is that the
speakers are real lookers, perhaps at the expense of sound quality for
the price.

> The proof in the pudding is in the listening, which I doubt
> Mr Krueger has done.

Doubt as you will, Paul.

> Note that this sicko takes exception to almost
> any product that is not utilitarian by design.

Just goes to show that Dormer is the kind of fool who can't tell the
difference between my claim that it actually costs something for the
nifty cabnetry, and this weird idea that this means that I think that
every speaker is supposed to be as ugly as he is.

[Arny Krueger]

Sander deWaal wrote:
> "Arny Krueger" > said:
>
> >As smart as you claim to be Fella, I'm amazed that you haven't
figured
> >out the market segment that Sonus Faber is addressing. An oviously
> >badly needed hint for the audio tyro: Sonus Faber as a brand has
more
> >do to with looks than sound quality.

> Is that a fact or an opinion?

If you can't tell the diference Sander, you can't benefit from an
answer to the following question:
> Have you ever heard any of their models?

[Clyde Slick]

"Michael McKelvy" > wrote in message
k.net...
>
> "Clyde Slick" > wrote in message
> ...
>>
>> "Michael McKelvy" > wrote in message
>> .net...
>>>
>>>>
>>> I think that ones values should be non-contradictory. If it's not OK
>>> for an individual to separate you from your property, it should not be
>>> OK for government to do it.
>>>
>>
>> Well, an individual can't compel you to pay taxes, and a government can.
>> An individual cannot put you in trial and sentence you to jail, but
>> a government can. An individual cannot comppel you to fight n a war,
>> and a government can.
>>
> Is there any point in rehashing all of this again?
>
Well, not after you just trapped yourself into a corner.

[Clyde Slick]

"Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
oups.com...
>
> Clyde Slick wrote:
>> "Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
>> ups.com...
>> >
>> > Clyde Slick wrote:
>> >
>> >> What do you think of your mentor's foray into this thread,
> babbling
>> > on
>> >> about "highway audio systems"? Are you going to
>> >> become as confused as he is?
>> >
>> > Showing once again that the simplest pun on Art's incessant and
> inane
>> > off-topic posting is way over his head.
>>
>> Nice lie!!!
>
> That what all the Middius clones say when they've tripped on their own
> tongues.
>
>> you are totally insane. you have fallen off the deep end.
>
> No, I'm having several good laughs at your expense, Art. You've
> compounded your illiteracy with the lack of intelligence required to
> discern a simple pun.
>

Soory, I am not conversant in Kroohumor, such that it is.

[Joseph Oberlander]

Arny Krueger wrote:

> Joseph Oberlander wrote:
>
>
>>I would love to show him the Liberty my friend has and
>>how it kept being towed out of and over things while
>>my other friend and her were offroading. His old Bronco
>>had no problems. Neither did his Wrangler a few months
>>later. The Liberty is a yuppie toy offroad.
>
>
> Darn, and here I thought this was an audio forum and the topic was
> audio systems.
>
>
>>That aside, factory sound systems stink with the exception
>>of a few of the Lexus and Volvos(Mercedes fails because
>>they still don't see a CD player as standard equipment
>>and it's integrated into the security system, for instance).
>
>
> Delusions of omnisicence noted.

No, most factory systems sound like crap. The Bose syndrome.
Okay sound but at insane markups(let alone the cars with
Bose in them)

>>$1200 for an audio system that you could beat with stock
>>Kenwood parts and $600 at your local audio sound store - some
>>price savings. Factory options are the biggest scam in
>>the automotive industry.
>
>
> Additional delusions of omniscience and delusions of being a unbiased
> judge of good sound, noted.

I never said I was unbiased. So the rest of this blather of yours
is meaningless. I'm biased as hell, so live with it, Arny.

[Michael McKelvy]

"Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
oups.com...
>
> Joseph Oberlander wrote:
>
>> I would love to show him the Liberty my friend has and
>> how it kept being towed out of and over things while
>> my other friend and her were offroading. His old Bronco
>> had no problems. Neither did his Wrangler a few months
>> later. The Liberty is a yuppie toy offroad.
>
> Darn, and here I thought this was an audio forum and the topic was
> audio systems.
>
>> That aside, factory sound systems stink with the exception
>> of a few of the Lexus and Volvos(Mercedes fails because
>> they still don't see a CD player as standard equipment
>> and it's integrated into the security system, for instance).
>
> Delusions of omnisicence noted.
>
>> $1200 for an audio system that you could beat with stock
>> Kenwood parts and $600 at your local audio sound store - some
>> price savings. Factory options are the biggest scam in
>> the automotive industry.
>
> Additional delusions of omniscience and delusions of being a unbiased
> judge of good sound, noted.
>
> In fact there are any number of OEM sound systems that sound great. A
> lot of what you pay for with a factory sound system isn't reflected in
> the sound - its reflected in the fact that its built to last out the
> rest of the car's warranty, which most after-market sound systems
> aren't.
>
> For example, OEMs pay about the same money or even a little more in
> 10,000 lots for receiver chassis as you'll pay for just one down at the
> corner CarTunes shop. The major difference is how long the respective
> devices are warranteed for, and how long they will actually, on the
> average, last.
>
There's also the fact that a good factory installed system has been
engineered to sound good in the particular car it is installed in. After
market systems IME aren't.

[Michael McKelvy]

"Clyde Slick" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Michael McKelvy" > wrote in message
> k.net...
>>
>> "Clyde Slick" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>>
>>> "Michael McKelvy" > wrote in message
>>> .net...
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> I think that ones values should be non-contradictory. If it's not OK
>>>> for an individual to separate you from your property, it should not be
>>>> OK for government to do it.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Well, an individual can't compel you to pay taxes, and a government can.
>>> An individual cannot put you in trial and sentence you to jail, but
>>> a government can. An individual cannot comppel you to fight n a war,
>>> and a government can.
>>>
>> Is there any point in rehashing all of this again?
>>
> Well, not after you just trapped yourself into a corner.
Delude yourself that that is the case, I simply don't want to go through it
all again. You know my feelings about the role of government and government
regulation and the use of force. I'm not going to change your mind and you
sure as hell aren't going to convince me that your viewpoint is the way to
go either. If you wish to discuss it off the NG and can restrain yourself
from ad hominem, I'm willing, but something tells me that is not the case.

[Arny Krueger]

Joseph Oberlander wrote:
> Arny Krueger wrote:

> >>$1200 for an audio system that you could beat with stock
> >>Kenwood parts and $600 at your local audio sound store - some
> >>price savings. Factory options are the biggest scam in
> >>the automotive industry.

> > Additional delusions of omniscience and delusions of being a
unbiased
> > judge of good sound, noted.

> I never said I was unbiased.

OK, Joe so then it is safe to assume that your claims are due to your
biases, not any possible actual lacking in OEM sound systems. Why did
you bother to write anything at all if all you're going to talk about
is your biases?

[Fella]

Michael McKelvy wrote:
> "Paul Dormer" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>>"Arny Krueger" emitted :
>>
>>
>>>The true goal is obviously not to impart the same sound as the
>>>over-priced, over-styled and under-engineered Fabers, but to impart a
>>>sound that has superior quality.
>>>
>>>...I'm amazed that you haven't figured
>>>out the market segment that Sonus Faber is addressing. An oviously
>>>badly needed hint for the audio tyro: Sonus Faber as a brand has more
>>>do to with looks than sound quality.
>>
>>Newbie readers should completely disregard Mr Kruegers asinine
>>comments regarding Sonus Faber. This is an extremely competent brand,
>>producing highly regarded, highly enjoyable, exquisitely musical
>>speakers.
>
>
> Yes and they use drivers that are or were available to the DIY market.

They highly modify them.


> They do make a
> claim that their cabinet virtually eliminates resonance,

Bull****.

>
> Check them out at www.madisound.com and click on the kits link and then the
> Orion one.
>

I'd love to hear one of those though..

[Fella]

Michael McKelvy wrote:

> "Fella" > wrote in message
> .. .
>
>>George M. Middius wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Mickey, I noticed you've started complaining about people being mean to
>>>you. The first time, I laughed at the absurdity of the accusation. Then
>>>I realized you were ****ing serious! What a joke that is. Apparently you
>>>actually expect people to indulge your nastiness and irrationality. Not
>>>to mention your seemigly infinite stupidity.
>>>
>>
>>He is a foul, useless, mental-polution stupid kind of stupid that lacks
>>any form or kind of an explanation or justification.
>>
>>Let me explain: I started reading/writing in this group some months ago.
>>Didn't know any micheal mckelvy before that. Had no grudge on him or any
>>ill-will for him. Just like towards all other members of the group. So his
>>stupid-polution was completely unsolicited. Here's what happened : I had
>>answered a question regarding speakers, someone was seeking *opinions* as
>>to which speaker, etc, so I suggested my favourite brand : Sonus Faber.
>>This duh!mikey had previously polluted the thread by first stating that
>>(direct quote): "As to speakers, they are the weakest link in the audio
>>chain sinc e they are subject to room interaction and the fact that
>>designs and drivers ahve gross differences from manufacturer to
>>manufacturer"
>>
>
>
> This is a true statement.

Yes of course it is. Welcome to audio 101.

>
>
>>Then he goes on about Sonus Faber (again direct quote): "The only reason
>>IMO to go with Sonus Faber is looks, since the sound they impart can be
>>gotten in other brands or in kits." Contradicting himself in the process..
>>
>
>
> It wasn't a contradiction. The drive units in a Sonus Faber speaker are, or
> at least were available for DIY.

They are HIGHLY modified before deployment and they are made FOR Sonus
Faber by dynaudioa, scanspeak, etc, that doesn't necessarily mean they
are sold for kit builders.


> The Dynaudio tweeter is now hard to come
> by but I beleive a few outlests still have some in stock. This makes it
> possible for someone with the skills and equipment to get the same sound

You must have scuked stupid cock (or your mother must have, before
****ting you in to the world) ..


> without the overpriced (IMO) cabinetry.

The cabinetry also contributes to whatever sound a speaker "imparts".

Whatever. It is no use whatsoever arguing with **** like you and
krooger. That you **** exist, that someone has **** out you in to the
world to arouse hate in normal people is an insult to the universe.

[Fella]

Michael McKelvy wrote:

> I don't know

That's correct.


> that there is anything in the style of the
> cabinets of Sonus Faber speakers that contributes anything special to the
> radiation pattern of the sound coming from the drivers.


Hmmm. Now why would cabinets have anything to do with how a speaker
might sound? Hmm... (Ok kroog****, pounce on this one now, bite it,
bitch, demogog bitch).

> They do make a
> claim that their cabinet virtually eliminates resonance,

In fact Sonus Faber claim the complete *OPPOSITE* ..

"Most speaker manufacturers go to great efforts to reduce resonance in
their cabinets. In contrast, Sonus Faber claim to use resonance to
create a better sounding speaker, giving as an example the way great
violin makers use resonance. For example, the side panels are decoupled
from the rest of the cabinet for “resonance control”.

Also unusual are the cabinets. Most speakers are rectangular boxes, as
that’s the easiest and cheapest way to manufacture cabinets."

http://www.audioenz.co.nz/2002/sonusfaber_grandpiano.html

[Fella]

Lies and demogogy will get you nowhere ****borg. Have you ever heard a
Sonus Faber? Next time you are in London, go to west cavendish street, A
hifi shop named "West KJ One". Beg the man to let you hear the
stradivari there, for 15 minutes. Don't listen to pink nosie you
****borg, use some MUSIC! There.. Now, given you what you polute below,
you should die in shame and anguish and self-pity at the end of those 15
minutes.

But then again, if you had the ability to feel, and to feel shame at
that, you wouldn't be a ****borg.

Yes, your polution of a post below deserves a top post response.



Arny Krueger wrote:

> Fella wrote:
>
>
>>This duh!mikey had previously polluted the thread by first
>>stating that (direct quote): "As to speakers, they are the weakest
>
> link
>
>>in the audio chain since they are subject to room interaction and the
>
>
>>fact that designs and drivers have gross differences from
>
> manufacturer
>
>>to manufacturer"
>
>
> Well Fella, the only pollution I see here is your rousing condemnation
> of Mike for telling a truth. Speakers and their interactions with rooms
> are the weakest links in the audio chain, closely followed by
> microphones and their interactions with performers and performance
> spaces.
>
>
>>Then he goes on about Sonus Faber (again direct quote): "The only
>
> reason
>
>>IMO to go with Sonus Faber is looks, since the sound they impart can
>
> be
>
>>gotten in other brands or in kits." Contradicting himself in the
>
> process..
>
> Again Fella, you obviously need to engage your brain before you unleash
> your fingers on the Usenet world. Mike has again shared an important
> truth with you.
>
>
>
>>So you buy a "kit" for $300, put it together, and it "imparts" the
>
> same
>
>>sound as (for instance) a Sonus Faber Stradivari!
>
>
> Of course that isn't what Mike said Fella, and you further diminish
> your highly tarnished reputation arouhd here by stuffing those vile
> words into Mike's mouth.
>
>
>>And while shooting
>>stupid from the hip, he doesn't mention which kits or other brands
>>impart the same sound as Sonus Fabers. :)
>
>
> The true goal is obviously not to impart the same sound as the
> over-priced, over-styled and under-engineered Fabers, but to impart a
> sound that has superior quality.
>
>
>>It's just mind-boggling HOW someone would be so much of a stupid to
>
> 1)
>
>>Contradict himself in such a gross way in a given thread.
>
>
> The claimed contradiction exist only in your beknighted mind, Fella.
>
>
>>2) Spew forth
>>completely unsolicited stupid that lacks any kind of explanation
>>inner-logic, etc..
>
>
> As smart as you claim to be Fella, I'm amazed that you haven't figured
> out the market segment that Sonus Faber is addressing. An oviously
> badly needed hint for the audio tyro: Sonus Faber as a brand has more
> do to with looks than sound quality.
>
>
>>Stupid that just suddenly explodes all over the place
>>leaving behind this stench, this polution, this piles and piles of
>
> ****
>
>>to clean up, this bad bad feeling. :(
>
>
> Since the shoe fits you so well Fella, why not realize that you're
> wearing it?
>

[Sander deWaal]

"Arny Krueger" > said:

>> I never said I was unbiased.

>OK, Joe so then it is safe to assume that your claims are due to your
>biases, not any possible actual lacking in OEM sound systems. Why did
>you bother to write anything at all if all you're going to talk about
>is your biases?

Just like you and your anti- High End bias?
Remember your comments about Sonus Faber which you have never heard,
but nevertheless commented negatively about?

By Kroologic, it is safe to assume that all your comments are due to
this anti-High End bias of yours.

That would make sense, and if you were for once man enough to admit
it, we'd all be able to move on.
Even Ferstler admitted that his goal is to destroy the Evil High End
Establishment.

"At least" he is man enough.

--
Sander de Waal
" SOA of a KT88? Sufficient. "

[Sander deWaal]

"Arny Krueger" > said:

>> >As smart as you claim to be Fella, I'm amazed that you haven't
>figured
>> >out the market segment that Sonus Faber is addressing. An oviously
>> >badly needed hint for the audio tyro: Sonus Faber as a brand has
>more
>> >do to with looks than sound quality.

>> Is that a fact or an opinion?

>If you can't tell the diference Sander, you can't benefit from an
>answer to the following question:

>> Have you ever heard any of their models?


It is always hard to tell what you mean, therefor I asked.
Thanks for admitting that you don't have an answer to this question
yourself.

It is then safe to assume that you never heard them.

And fix your newsreader program, it is broken again.

--
Sander de Waal
" SOA of a KT88? Sufficient. "

[Clyde Slick]

"Michael McKelvy" > wrote in message
ink.net...
>
> "Clyde Slick" > wrote in message
> ...
>>
>> "Michael McKelvy" > wrote in message
>> k.net...
>>>
>>> "Clyde Slick" > wrote in message
>>> ...
>>>>
>>>> "Michael McKelvy" > wrote in message
>>>> .net...
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>> I think that ones values should be non-contradictory. If it's not OK
>>>>> for an individual to separate you from your property, it should not be
>>>>> OK for government to do it.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Well, an individual can't compel you to pay taxes, and a government
>>>> can.
>>>> An individual cannot put you in trial and sentence you to jail, but
>>>> a government can. An individual cannot comppel you to fight n a war,
>>>> and a government can.
>>>>
>>> Is there any point in rehashing all of this again?
>>>
>> Well, not after you just trapped yourself into a corner.
> Delude yourself that that is the case, I simply don't want to go through
> it all again. You know my feelings about the role of government and
> government regulation and the use of force. I'm not going to change your
> mind and you sure as hell aren't going to convince me that your viewpoint
> is the way to go either. If you wish to discuss it off the NG and can
> restrain yourself from ad hominem, I'm willing, but something tells me
> that is not the case.
>

I have no interest in talking to you about anything off group.

[Fella]

Sander deWaal wrote:

> "Arny Krueger" > said:
>
>
>>>>As smart as you claim to be Fella, I'm amazed that you haven't
>>
>>figured
>>
>>>>out the market segment that Sonus Faber is addressing. An oviously
>>>>badly needed hint for the audio tyro: Sonus Faber as a brand has
>>
>>more
>>
>>>>do to with looks than sound quality.
>
>
>>>Is that a fact or an opinion?
>
>
>>If you can't tell the diference Sander, you can't benefit from an
>>answer to the following question:
>
>
>>>Have you ever heard any of their models?
>
>
>
> It is always hard to tell what you mean, therefor I asked.
> Thanks for admitting that you don't have an answer to this question
> yourself.

It's most probably so that browsing around in the web he has encountered
a few comments here and there about their looks, and thinks that, that's
it, they're just lookers. He claims that Sonus Faber is under
engineered, that a kit builder would achieve a "more quality sound"
without even ever having heard a sonus faber, or examined any of the
basics of any sonus faber model. Same with duh!mikey. It is just
phenominal as to how low these ****borg types might go, just for the
sake of arousing hatred.

There *is* a point I am making when I am calling the postings of
duh!mikey and kroog "polition". I would so much like it to be possible
to say "BE GONE! YOU VILE, BLACK PLAGUE!" or somesuch to this bunch and
actually discuss some audio here.

What comes to Sonus Faber... Have you ever auditioned them Sander? I
would value your opinion. For instance the cremona, or the amati homage,
or the stradivari? I haven't a big enough listening room for the
mentioned but the concerto grand piano's do wonders for me.

Sonus Faber makes romantic, musical and sweet speakers, once you hear
them, you even forget about their looks!

[Arny Krueger]

Fella wrote:
> Michael McKelvy wrote:
>
> > I don't know
>
> That's correct.
>
>
> > that there is anything in the style of the
> > cabinets of Sonus Faber speakers that contributes anything special
to the
> > radiation pattern of the sound coming from the drivers.
>
>
> Hmmm. Now why would cabinets have anything to do with how a speaker
> might sound? Hmm... (Ok kroog****, pounce on this one now, bite it,
> bitch, demogog bitch).
>
> > They do make a
> > claim that their cabinet virtually eliminates resonance,
>
> In fact Sonus Faber claim the complete *OPPOSITE* ..
>
> "Most speaker manufacturers go to great efforts to reduce resonance
in
> their cabinets. In contrast, Sonus Faber claim to use resonance to
> create a better sounding speaker, giving as an example the way great
> violin makers use resonance. For example, the side panels are
decoupled
> from the rest of the cabinet for "resonance control".
>
> Also unusual are the cabinets. Most speakers are rectangular boxes,
as
> that's the easiest and cheapest way to manufacture cabinets."
>
> http://www.audioenz.co.nz/2002/sonusfaber_grandpiano.html

Obviously, Sonus Faber doesn't think that transient response or
smoothness of response are important properties of speakers.

Sounds like these Sonus Faber Turkeys are right down your alley, Fella!

[Arny Krueger]

Fella wrote:
> Lies and demogogy will get you nowhere ****borg.

Obviously I've stressed you to the point where you've had to re-engage
your filthy speech module, Fella. Sad, very sad.

> Have you ever heard a Sonus Faber?

Yes, just as surely as I've heard a Martin-Logan.

> Next time you are in London, go to west cavendish street, A
> hifi shop named "West KJ One".

London is one of those places I like to stay away from, if I can. It
smells bad, looks very gritty, and has way too many stinkin' bodies in
too few square meters.

My last visit to a place I liked was the town of Erendira in Baja.
There's some very unusual rock formations and sea caves that give some
real bass to the natural sound of the surf. We slept on the beach,
lulled to sleep by the sounds of meters of crashing surf.

> Beg the man to let you hear the
> stradivari there, for 15 minutes. Don't listen to pink nosie you
> ****borg, use some MUSIC!

My first preferences are for natural sounds and the sounds of acoustic
musical instruments and voices. Then comes reproduced sound.

> There.. Now, given you what you polute below,
> you should die in shame and anguish and self-pity at the end of those
15
> minutes.

You obviously don't know who you are talking to, Fella.

> But then again, if you had the ability to feel, and to feel shame at
> that, you wouldn't be a ****borg.

Again Fella, sorry to stress you to the point where your
slightly-submerged Tourettes' becomes so apparent.

Post again Fella when the medication kicks in and you are again capable
of civil speech.

[dave weil]

On 4 Jan 2005 07:22:56 -0800, "Arny Krueger" >
wrote:

>> Next time you are in London, go to west cavendish street, A
>> hifi shop named "West KJ One".
>
>London is one of those places I like to stay away from, if I can. It
>smells bad, looks very gritty, and has way too many stinkin' bodies in
>too few square meters.

This of course tells us all we need to know about Arnold, who prefers
the toy department of WalMart.

[dave weil]

On 4 Jan 2005 07:22:56 -0800, "Arny Krueger" >
wrote:

>My last visit to a place I liked was the town of Erendira in Baja.

Apparently, he doesn't like the woods of Michigan or those dunes that
he brags about. And now we know how he feels about canoeing with the
family.

[Fella]

Arny Krueger wrote:

>
> My last visit to a place I liked was the town of Erendira in Baja.
> There's some very unusual rock formations and sea caves that give some
> real bass to the natural sound of the surf. We slept on the beach,
> lulled to sleep by the sounds of meters of crashing surf.

Man! Talk about relevance. :) So you understood my London reference as
some bragging and wanted to brag back. :) Thus you make up some bul****
about listening to the waves in baja. You probably picked that one out
of the web too. :) You *are* one pathetic looser man, un****ingbelivable
is what you are.


> Post again Fella when the medication kicks in and you are again capable
> of civil speech.
>

To insult you is in fact a duty. It sure does insult the insults used
though. For instance, when I call you a "****"borg, it's an insult to
the borg, not to mention ****! :)

[Fella]

Arny Krueger wrote:

> Fella wrote:
>
>>Michael McKelvy wrote:
>>
>>
>>>I don't know
>>
>>That's correct.
>>
>>
>>
>>>that there is anything in the style of the
>>>cabinets of Sonus Faber speakers that contributes anything special
>
> to the
>
>>>radiation pattern of the sound coming from the drivers.
>>
>>
>>Hmmm. Now why would cabinets have anything to do with how a speaker
>>might sound? Hmm... (Ok kroog****, pounce on this one now, bite it,
>>bitch, demogog bitch).
>>
>>
>>> They do make a
>>>claim that their cabinet virtually eliminates resonance,
>>
>>In fact Sonus Faber claim the complete *OPPOSITE* ..
>>
>>"Most speaker manufacturers go to great efforts to reduce resonance
>
> in
>
>>their cabinets. In contrast, Sonus Faber claim to use resonance to
>>create a better sounding speaker, giving as an example the way great
>>violin makers use resonance. For example, the side panels are
>
> decoupled
>
>>from the rest of the cabinet for "resonance control".
>>
>>Also unusual are the cabinets. Most speakers are rectangular boxes,
>
> as
>
>>that's the easiest and cheapest way to manufacture cabinets."
>>
>>http://www.audioenz.co.nz/2002/sonusfaber_grandpiano.html
>
>
> Obviously, Sonus Faber doesn't think that transient response or
> smoothness of response are important properties of speakers.
>
> Sounds like these Sonus Faber Turkeys are right down your alley, Fella!
>

Ok, so arni the greyt read a web page and now let's it be known that
Sonus Faber makes bad speakers. :)

Thaat'a boy arni, just do it, just go ahead and leave no doubt
whatsoever in anybody's mind that you are an ignorant explosion of stupid.

[Fella]

dave weil wrote:

> On 4 Jan 2005 07:22:56 -0800, "Arny Krueger" >
> wrote:
>
>
>>My last visit to a place I liked was the town of Erendira in Baja.
>
>
> Apparently, he doesn't like the woods of Michigan

Hmmm, being somehwat of a newbie in this NG I did not know that this
source of polution was from michigan, I thought this guy was a brit
somehow or another, hence the London boutique reference.. Never been to
michigan though. So is there a shop in michigan where one could audition
a pair of sonus faber stradivaris? Though I doubt they'd let the vile
creature in.

[MINe 109]

In article >,
dave weil > wrote:

> On 4 Jan 2005 07:22:56 -0800, "Arny Krueger" >
> wrote:
>
> >My last visit to a place I liked was the town of Erendira in Baja.
>
> Apparently, he doesn't like the woods of Michigan or those dunes that
> he brags about. And now we know how he feels about canoeing with the
> family.

Maybe he just wants "A Hundred Years of Solitude".

Stephen

[Michael McKelvy]

"Fella" > wrote in message
...
> Michael McKelvy wrote:
>> "Paul Dormer" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>
>>>"Arny Krueger" emitted :
>>>
>>>
>>>>The true goal is obviously not to impart the same sound as the
>>>>over-priced, over-styled and under-engineered Fabers, but to impart a
>>>>sound that has superior quality.
>>>>
>>>>...I'm amazed that you haven't figured
>>>>out the market segment that Sonus Faber is addressing. An oviously
>>>>badly needed hint for the audio tyro: Sonus Faber as a brand has more
>>>>do to with looks than sound quality.
>>>
>>>Newbie readers should completely disregard Mr Kruegers asinine
>>>comments regarding Sonus Faber. This is an extremely competent brand,
>>>producing highly regarded, highly enjoyable, exquisitely musical
>>>speakers.
>>
>>
>> Yes and they use drivers that are or were available to the DIY market.
>
> They highly modify them.
>
>
>> They do make a claim that their cabinet virtually eliminates resonance,
>
> Bull****.
>
Yes it is bull****, but they make the claim nonetheless.

>>
>> Check them out at www.madisound.com and click on the kits link and then
>> the Orion one.
>>
>
> I'd love to hear one of those though..

[Michael McKelvy]

"Fella" > wrote in message
...
> Michael McKelvy wrote:
>
>> I don't know
>
> That's correct.
>
Nice editing.
>
>> that there is anything in the style of the cabinets of Sonus Faber
>> speakers that contributes anything special to the radiation pattern of
>> the sound coming from the drivers.
>
I still don't know if there's anything special about their cabinets, other
than hype. Cabinet resonance is distortion, pure and simple. The goal is
to reduce it down to inaudible levels, not incorporate it into the ssound of
the speakers.
>
> Hmmm. Now why would cabinets have anything to do with how a speaker might
> sound?

These days, not that much if the diesgn is handled by someone with skill.
Diffraction effects can be componsated for, Resonances can be damped, and
the shape of the cabinet does have some small effect on the sound but unless
the edges are rounded much more severely than what we normally see, then
it's effect is pretty small.

Using top quality drivers in a well built cabinet, well braced cabinet with
a good xover are the keys to good speaker design. If Sonuys faber wish to
make them look especially nice and do it in a way that makes them especially
expensive, that's fine, most people like the look of fine wood.

This still doesn't leave the DIY market out in the cold when it comes to
cabinetry. There are compainies like Woodstyle that will build you anything
you want in terms of wood cabinets and they doo so for a number of high end
clients, such as Legacy and Kinergetics. There are also the cabinets of Lee
Taylor available in the North Creek speakers. Their cabinets are some of
the finest you'll ever see, in things like Birdseye Maple or Zebrawood. So
if a DIYer reaaly wants tomake a fine looking cabinet and a solidly built
one, there are plenty of resources. Nothing will replace good old know how
and having the ability to do the proper measurements, but such tings are
becomin more and more available at prices that a DIYer can afford more
easily.


>
>> They do make a claim that their cabinet virtually eliminates resonance,
>
> In fact Sonus Faber claim the complete *OPPOSITE* ..
>
A different speaker than the Stradavari which is where I tok the information
from in the previous post.


> "Most speaker manufacturers go to great efforts to reduce resonance in
> their cabinets. In contrast, Sonus Faber claim to use resonance to create
> a better sounding speaker, giving as an example the way great violin
> makers use resonance. For example, the side panels are decoupled from the
> rest of the cabinet for “resonance control”.
>
> Also unusual are the cabinets. Most speakers are rectangular boxes, as
> that’s the easiest and cheapest way to manufacture cabinets."
>
> http://www.audioenz.co.nz/2002/sonusfaber_grandpiano.html
>
>
I like good ad hype as well as the next guy.

[Michael McKelvy]

"Fella" > wrote in message
...
> Michael McKelvy wrote:
>
>> "Fella" > wrote in message
>> .. .
>>
>>>George M. Middius wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>Mickey, I noticed you've started complaining about people being mean to
>>>>you. The first time, I laughed at the absurdity of the accusation. Then
>>>>I realized you were ****ing serious! What a joke that is. Apparently you
>>>>actually expect people to indulge your nastiness and irrationality. Not
>>>>to mention your seemigly infinite stupidity.
>>>>
>>>
>>>He is a foul, useless, mental-polution stupid kind of stupid that lacks
>>>any form or kind of an explanation or justification.
>>>
>>>Let me explain: I started reading/writing in this group some months ago.
>>>Didn't know any micheal mckelvy before that. Had no grudge on him or any
>>>ill-will for him. Just like towards all other members of the group. So
>>>his stupid-polution was completely unsolicited. Here's what happened : I
>>>had answered a question regarding speakers, someone was seeking
>>>*opinions* as to which speaker, etc, so I suggested my favourite brand :
>>>Sonus Faber. This duh!mikey had previously polluted the thread by first
>>>stating that (direct quote): "As to speakers, they are the weakest link
>>>in the audio chain sinc e they are subject to room interaction and the
>>>fact that designs and drivers ahve gross differences from manufacturer to
>>>manufacturer"
>>>
>>
>>
>> This is a true statement.
>
> Yes of course it is. Welcome to audio 101.
>
>>
>>
>>>Then he goes on about Sonus Faber (again direct quote): "The only reason
>>>IMO to go with Sonus Faber is looks, since the sound they impart can be
>>>gotten in other brands or in kits." Contradicting himself in the
>>>process..
>>>
>>
>>
>> It wasn't a contradiction. The drive units in a Sonus Faber speaker are,
>> or at least were available for DIY.
>
> They are HIGHLY modified before deployment and they are made FOR Sonus
> Faber by dynaudioa, scanspeak, etc, that doesn't necessarily mean they are
> sold for kit builders.
>
Do you know how they are modified? Do you not think there might be
something odd in the fact that the finest speaker drivers in the world need
to be modified for SF? Does anything in the modification have an effect on
the sound or is it just to give it a certain look?
>
>> The Dynaudio tweeter is now hard to come by but I beleive a few outlests
>> still have some in stock. This makes it possible for someone with the
>> skills and equipment to get the same sound
>
> You must have scuked stupid cock (or your mother must have, before
> ****ting you in to the world) ..
>
Thank you for letting everyone know that you can't discuss things like a
grown up. How old are you? 12?
>
>> without the overpriced (IMO) cabinetry.
>
> The cabinetry also contributes to whatever sound a speaker "imparts".
>
> Whatever. It is no use whatsoever arguing with **** like you and krooger.

Of course there is, you might learn soemthing.

That you **** exist, that someone has **** out you in to the
> world to arouse hate in normal people is an insult to the universe.

It appears that whatever hate you have existed long before you came to RAO.

[S888Wheel]

>From: Fella
>Date: 1/4/2005 1:18 AM Pacific Standard Time
>Message-id: >
>
>
>Lies and demogogy will get you nowhere ****borg.

Why deny Krueger his life's blood?

Have you ever heard a
>Sonus Faber?

Sure he has. They are not cheap, he must hate them.

Next time you are in London,

LOL, next time pigs fly you mean.

go to west cavendish street, A
>hifi shop named "West KJ One". Beg the man to let you hear the
>stradivari there, for 15 minutes. Don't listen to pink nosie you
>****borg, use some MUSIC!

Forcing Krueger to listen to music could be seen as cruel and unusual
punishment.

There.. Now, given you what you polute below,
>you should die in shame and anguish and self-pity at the end of those 15
>minutes.

15 minutes that will never come to pass.


>
>But then again, if you had the ability to feel, and to feel shame at
>that, you wouldn't be a ****borg.
>
>Yes, your polution of a post below deserves a top post response.
>
>
>
>Arny Krueger wrote:
>
>> Fella wrote:
>>
>>
>>>This duh!mikey had previously polluted the thread by first
>>>stating that (direct quote): "As to speakers, they are the weakest
>>
>> link
>>
>>>in the audio chain since they are subject to room interaction and the
>>
>>
>>>fact that designs and drivers have gross differences from
>>
>> manufacturer
>>
>>>to manufacturer"
>>
>>
>> Well Fella, the only pollution I see here is your rousing condemnation
>> of Mike for telling a truth. Speakers and their interactions with rooms
>> are the weakest links in the audio chain, closely followed by
>> microphones and their interactions with performers and performance
>> spaces.
>>
>>
>>>Then he goes on about Sonus Faber (again direct quote): "The only
>>
>> reason
>>
>>>IMO to go with Sonus Faber is looks, since the sound they impart can
>>
>> be
>>
>>>gotten in other brands or in kits." Contradicting himself in the
>>
>> process..
>>
>> Again Fella, you obviously need to engage your brain before you unleash
>> your fingers on the Usenet world. Mike has again shared an important
>> truth with you.
>>
>>
>>
>>>So you buy a "kit" for $300, put it together, and it "imparts" the
>>
>> same
>>
>>>sound as (for instance) a Sonus Faber Stradivari!
>>
>>
>> Of course that isn't what Mike said Fella, and you further diminish
>> your highly tarnished reputation arouhd here by stuffing those vile
>> words into Mike's mouth.
>>
>>
>>>And while shooting
>>>stupid from the hip, he doesn't mention which kits or other brands
>>>impart the same sound as Sonus Fabers. :)
>>
>>
>> The true goal is obviously not to impart the same sound as the
>> over-priced, over-styled and under-engineered Fabers, but to impart a
>> sound that has superior quality.
>>
>>
>>>It's just mind-boggling HOW someone would be so much of a stupid to
>>
>> 1)
>>
>>>Contradict himself in such a gross way in a given thread.
>>
>>
>> The claimed contradiction exist only in your beknighted mind, Fella.
>>
>>
>>>2) Spew forth
>>>completely unsolicited stupid that lacks any kind of explanation
>>>inner-logic, etc..
>>
>>
>> As smart as you claim to be Fella, I'm amazed that you haven't figured
>> out the market segment that Sonus Faber is addressing. An oviously
>> badly needed hint for the audio tyro: Sonus Faber as a brand has more
>> do to with looks than sound quality.
>>
>>
>>>Stupid that just suddenly explodes all over the place
>>>leaving behind this stench, this polution, this piles and piles of
>>
>> ****
>>
>>>to clean up, this bad bad feeling. :(
>>
>>
>> Since the shoe fits you so well Fella, why not realize that you're
>> wearing it?
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>

[Arny Krueger]

Fella wrote:
> dave weil wrote:
>
> > On 4 Jan 2005 07:22:56 -0800, "Arny Krueger" >
> > wrote:


> >>My last visit to a place I liked was the town of Erendira in Baja.

> > Apparently, he doesn't like the woods of Michigan

I never said nor implied anything of the sort. Just another example of
Weil's extreme desperation for attention from your's truely.

> Hmmm, being somehwat of a newbie in this NG I did not know that this
> source of polution was from michigan,

Fella, given that there is no such thing as *polution*, could you
clarify?

> I thought this guy was a brit
> somehow or another, hence the London boutique reference..

Duhhh.

> Never been Michigan though.

Probably couldn't even get a tourist's visa.

> So is there a shop in michigan where one could
> audition a pair of sonus faber stradivaris?

http://overture-audio.com/product_lines/sonus_faber/intro.html is quite
close to home. But they say nothing about having that particular
speaker on demo.

> Though I doubt they'd let the vile creature in.
They should be so lucky...

[Joseph Oberlander]

Arny Krueger wrote:

> Joseph Oberlander wrote:
>
>>Arny Krueger wrote:
>
>
>>>>$1200 for an audio system that you could beat with stock
>>>>Kenwood parts and $600 at your local audio sound store - some
>>>>price savings. Factory options are the biggest scam in
>>>>the automotive industry.
>
>
>>>Additional delusions of omniscience and delusions of being a
>
> unbiased
>
>>>judge of good sound, noted.
>
>
>>I never said I was unbiased.
>
>
> OK, Joe so then it is safe to assume that your claims are due to your
> biases, not any possible actual lacking in OEM sound systems. Why did
> you bother to write anything at all if all you're going to talk about
> is your biases?

Well, again, it's like Bose - car audio is often so deficient
that it's nearly unlistenable. Now, a few do have good custom
factory systems, but I said that in the beginning - that
there are some that are good, but the vast majority are junk
not worth being gouged for.

[Joseph Oberlander]

Michael McKelvy wrote:

> These days, not that much if the diesgn is handled by someone with skill.
> Diffraction effects can be componsated for, Resonances can be damped, and
> the shape of the cabinet does have some small effect on the sound but unless
> the edges are rounded much more severely than what we normally see, then
> it's effect is pretty small.

NoRH is a good example of this sort of thing. It's
pretty decor-unfriendly, though - at least IMO.

[Joseph Oberlander]

Sander deWaal wrote:

> "Arny Krueger" > said:
>
>
>>>I never said I was unbiased.
>
>
>>OK, Joe so then it is safe to assume that your claims are due to your
>>biases, not any possible actual lacking in OEM sound systems. Why did
>>you bother to write anything at all if all you're going to talk about
>>is your biases?
>
>
> Just like you and your anti- High End bias?
> Remember your comments about Sonus Faber which you have never heard,
> but nevertheless commented negatively about?

Just pointing out that if we had no bias, we'd not be
even posting on UseNet. :)

Humans are flawed and biased. Some, like Kreuger,
though, refuse to deal with it.

[dave weil]

On 4 Jan 2005 10:52:31 -0800, "Arny Krueger" >
wrote:

>> >>My last visit to a place I liked was the town of Erendira in Baja.
>
>> > Apparently, he doesn't like the woods of Michigan
>
>I never said nor implied anything of the sort. Just another example of
>Weil's extreme desperation for attention from your's truely.

Since you have visited the woods of Michigan since you've visited
Baja, you did *exactly* say that.

BTW, since there's no such word as truely, *and* you messed up the
possessive, it looks like I've got you tripping over your tongue yet
again. Of course, that's no mean feat...

[Arny Krueger]

Joseph Oberlander wrote:

> Well, again, it's like Bose - car audio is often so deficient
> that it's nearly unlistenable.

About this, I can't disagree.

> Now, a few do have good custom factory systems,

IME, more than a few...

Car sound provides unique opportunities for the audio system design
engineer, such as the ability to have almost complete control over
listener location and listening *room* configuration. The room itself
is acoustically advantageous in several ways - its small which favors
deep bass, and it tends to be well-padded which favors clarity.

There is also a systematic cash advantage for the audio system design
staff - some of the car companies base engineering staff annual reviews
on Powers customer survey results. Perceived sound quality weighs
heavily.

As Nousiane has pointed out, this system tends to keep even Bose on a
short leash, sound quality-wise.

> but I said that in the beginning - that
> there are some that are good, but the vast majority are junk
> not worth being gouged for.

You don't really know that Joseph - you damage your crediblty with such
loose talk. OEM sound quality is definately on the rise, and in many
cases it is far better than merely nice or acceptable.

That all said, both of my vehicles which are older, have after-market
sound systems. OEM sound systems as a group have improved considerably
since 1995.

[Clyde Slick]

"Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
oups.com...
>
>
> My last visit to a place I liked was the town of Erendira in Baja.
> There's some very unusual rock formations and sea caves that give some
> real bass to the natural sound of the surf. We slept on the beach,
> lulled to sleep by the sounds of meters of crashing surf.
>

where's a tsunami when you need one?

[Clyde Slick]

"Joseph Oberlander" > wrote in message
k.net...
>
>
\>
> Humans are flawed and biased. Some, like Kreuger,
> though, refuse to deal with it.
>

Most likely because he's flawed and biased.

[Arny Krueger]

Fella wrote:

> Thus you make up some bul**** about listening to the waves in baja.

I'm relishing the fact Fella, that you find the truth so unbelievable
that you think it must be made up. In fact over the past New Years
holiday I was camped on the beach south of Erendira with my family.

> You probably picked that one out of the web too.

Not at all. My son heard about Erendira from a friend of a friend, here
in San Diego. However, Erendira is mentioned on the web in a number of
contexts.

> You *are* one pathetic looser man, un****ingbelivable is what you
are.

Lets see Fella. In your book I'm a loser because you can't believe the
truth about how I just spent my Winter vacation? LOL!

Here's a detail about Erendira that does not seem to exist anywhere on
the web, but that anybody can probably confirm by contacting Coyote
Cals, a well-known hostel in Erendira.

There is a large, washed out earth fill dam on the north side of the
road down to Erendira from the main road (1)that runs south from
Enseneda.

[Fella]

Arny Krueger wrote:

>
>
> Fella, given that there is no such thing as *polution*, could you
> clarify?

Yeah, I'll clarify that as soon as you clarify who "your's truely" is.


>
>>I thought this guy was a brit
>>somehow or another, hence the London boutique reference..
>
>
> Duhhh.

DUHHH! is for duh!mikey. You don't need to make any special form of
gesture or sound to denote the extreme state of stupidity you dwell in.


>
>
>>Never been Michigan though.
>
>
> Probably couldn't even get a tourist's visa.

Tryin to play the race card, the nationality card (again!) I see.. :)
There is just *NO* limit of lowness you will stoop to is there?

I business-travel to places like london, san jose california, tokyo,
amsterdam, stockholm etc, sometimes several times a year. Never needed
to go anywhere near the backwoods of michigan though. I'll check from my
travel agent and see if michigan applies some sort of a special visa to
finnish passports and get back to you. :)


>
>
>>So is there a shop in michigan where one could
>>audition a pair of sonus faber stradivaris?
>
>
> http://overture-audio.com/product_lines/sonus_faber/intro.html is quite
> close to home. But they say nothing about having that particular
> speaker on demo.

Well this one would be enough for you to hang your head in shame:

http://overture-audio.com/product_lines/sonus_faber/grand_piano.html

And this one to hang your self from the nearest branch:

http://overture-audio.com/product_lines/sonus_faber/amati.html

[Fella]

Arny Krueger wrote:

> Fella wrote:
>
>
>>Thus you make up some bul**** about listening to the waves in baja.
>
>
> I'm relishing the fact Fella, that you find the truth so unbelievable
> that you think it must be made up. In fact over the past New Years
> holiday I was camped on the beach south of Erendira with my family.
>
>
>>You probably picked that one out of the web too.
>
>
> Not at all. My son heard about Erendira from a friend of a friend, here
> in San Diego. However, Erendira is mentioned on the web in a number of
> contexts.

Yeah-yeah, sure-sure, we believe you ****borg. :)

>
>
>>You *are* one pathetic looser man, un****ingbelivable is what you
>
> are.
>
> Lets see Fella. In your book I'm a loser because you can't believe the
> truth about how I just spent my Winter vacation? LOL!

Prove it ****borg! I here by issue a challenge to the ****borg, ABX
tests, double blind tests, where did ****borg go to have his trailer
trash vacation! :)

[Fella]

Michael McKelvy wrote:


>>>
>>>It wasn't a contradiction. The drive units in a Sonus Faber speaker are,
>>>or at least were available for DIY.
>>
>>They are HIGHLY modified before deployment and they are made FOR Sonus
>>Faber by dynaudioa, scanspeak, etc, that doesn't necessarily mean they are
>>sold for kit builders.
>>
>
> Do you know how they are modified?

I'll give you several examples.

Here is quote from your favorite publication:

"The paper cone is marked by cuts spiraling out from the dustcap to the
rubber half-roll surround, these filled with a polymer adhesive. This
treatment is said to break up standing waves in the cone."

http://www.stereophile.com/loudspeakerreviews/304sonus/index.html

The "treatment" mentioned is done to that driver by sonus faber.

"The Grand Piano is a two-way design utilizing a 7" acrylic-treated
paper-cone woofer designed to SF's specs by SEAS,"

"So, to add stiffness to the cone and optimize high-frequency
dispersion, the 7" driver is fitted with a concave brass phase plug.
According to the accompanying literature, a great deal of attention has
been paid to the long-throw motor design to ensure linear behavior,
particularly in the transition between forward and rear motion"

http://stereophile.com/loudspeakerreviews/269/

This "concave brass phase plug" is added there by Sonus Faber, and to a
driver "designed to SF's specs" in the first place!!!


> Do you not think there might be
> something odd in the fact that the finest speaker drivers in the world need
> to be modified for SF?

That's NOT the point you goofball. The point is you claimed that the
sound the sf's "impart" can be gotten from kits or other manufacturers.
Here we have special cabinet designs, special drivers, special
crossovers, so GOOD or BAD, to achieve the *SAME* sound with mere "kits"
is just impossible!

> Does anything in the modification have an effect on
> the sound or is it just to give it a certain look?

I ask again, DID YOU SUCK STUPID COCK!!

You stupid-cock sucker, they cut driver membranes, they apply special
glues, brass plugs, etc, HOW can such modifications NOT have an effect
on the sound?!?!?! It wouuld take years of RESEARCH to find a way to
modify elements in such manner WITHOUT effecting the way they sound. And
WHY THE **** would they go to all that trouble in the first place!! ???


>
>>> The Dynaudio tweeter is now hard to come by but I beleive a few outlests
>>>still have some in stock. This makes it possible for someone with the
>>>skills and equipment to get the same sound
>>
>>You must have scuked stupid cock (or your mother must have, before
>>****ting you in to the world) ..
>>
>
> Thank you for letting everyone know that you can't discuss things like a
> grown up.


"Discuss things" ?!! Here we have an extreme-density-of-stupid claiming
that one can buy a dynaudio tweeter from an outlet and with the "skills
and equipment" get the same sound as a grand piano, or a cremona!
Encountered with such an IMMENSE density of stupid one HAS to ask the
stupid-cock question!


> How old are you? 12?
>

It's not a matter of age you slime sucking schmuck. I know of poets,
writers, philosophers who freely swear and cuss when the situation at
hand warrants it. And YOU! Well, I am at a loss to FIND the appropriate,
the proportianate cuss words for the HUGHE amount of dense stupidity you
are displaying here!

[dave weil]

On 4 Jan 2005 19:20:09 -0800, "Arny Krueger" >
wrote:

>> Thus you make up some bul**** about listening to the waves in baja.
>
>I'm relishing the fact Fella, that you find the truth so unbelievable
>that you think it must be made up. In fact over the past New Years
>holiday I was camped on the beach south of Erendira with my family.

If that's the case, then I retract my Michigan woods comment.

I'll give you credit for doing something out-of-the-ordinary for New
Year's Eve.

[Lionel]

dave weil a écrit :

> I'll give you credit for doing something out-of-the-ordinary for New
> Year's Eve.

....Says the blasé-over-sophisticated (lol) waiter who spends days and
nights to stalk an audio-enthousiast on Usenet. :-)

[dave weil]

On Wed, 05 Jan 2005 15:37:55 +0100, Lionel >
wrote:

>dave weil a écrit :
>
>> I'll give you credit for doing something out-of-the-ordinary for New
>> Year's Eve.
>
>...Says the blasé-over-sophisticated (lol) waiter who spends days and
>nights to stalk an audio-enthousiast on Usenet. :-)

I have to wonder why, when I congratulate Arnold for doing something
cool, I have to get this sort of response from you. Did you think I
was being sarcastic? For the record, I wasn't. I thought it showed a
lot of creativity and imagination.

[Michael McKelvy]

"Fella" > wrote in message
...
> Arny Krueger wrote:
>
>> Fella wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Thus you make up some bul**** about listening to the waves in baja.
>>
>>
>> I'm relishing the fact Fella, that you find the truth so unbelievable
>> that you think it must be made up. In fact over the past New Years
>> holiday I was camped on the beach south of Erendira with my family.
>>
>>
>>>You probably picked that one out of the web too.
>>
>>
>> Not at all. My son heard about Erendira from a friend of a friend, here
>> in San Diego. However, Erendira is mentioned on the web in a number of
>> contexts.
>
> Yeah-yeah, sure-sure, we believe you ****borg. :)
>
>>
>>
>>>You *are* one pathetic looser man, un****ingbelivable is what you
>>
>> are.
>>
>> Lets see Fella. In your book I'm a loser because you can't believe the
>> truth about how I just spent my Winter vacation? LOL!
>
> Prove it ****borg! I here by issue a challenge to the ****borg, ABX tests,
> double blind tests, where did ****borg go to have his trailer trash
> vacation! :)

Obviously your place was taken. :-(

[Lionel]

dave weil wrote:

> On Wed, 05 Jan 2005 15:37:55 +0100, Lionel >
> wrote:
>
>>dave weil a écrit :
>>
>>> I'll give you credit for doing something out-of-the-ordinary for New
>>> Year's Eve.
>>
>>...Says the blasé-over-sophisticated (lol) waiter who spends days and
>>nights to stalk an audio-enthousiast on Usenet. :-)
>
> I have to wonder why, when I congratulate Arnold for doing something
> cool, I have to get this sort of response from you.

Ooops, in fact I haven't read your prose. ;-)

> Did you think I
> was being sarcastic?

I don't care. :-(

> For the record, I wasn't. I thought it showed a
> lot of creativity and imagination.

Good.

[dave weil]

On Wed, 05 Jan 2005 17:59:15 +0100, Lionel >
wrote:

>dave weil wrote:
>
>> On Wed, 05 Jan 2005 15:37:55 +0100, Lionel >
>> wrote:
>>
>>>dave weil a écrit :
>>>
>>>> I'll give you credit for doing something out-of-the-ordinary for New
>>>> Year's Eve.
>>>
>>>...Says the blasé-over-sophisticated (lol) waiter who spends days and
>>>nights to stalk an audio-enthousiast on Usenet. :-)
>>
>> I have to wonder why, when I congratulate Arnold for doing something
>> cool, I have to get this sort of response from you.
>
>Ooops, in fact I haven't read your prose. ;-)
>
>> Did you think I
>> was being sarcastic?
>
>I don't care. :-(

So, it was just auto-erotic trolling for you.

Whatever gets you through the day, I suppose.

[Lionel]

dave weil wrote:

> On Wed, 05 Jan 2005 17:59:15 +0100, Lionel >
> wrote:
>
>>dave weil wrote:
>>
>>> On Wed, 05 Jan 2005 15:37:55 +0100, Lionel >
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>>dave weil a écrit :
>>>>
>>>>> I'll give you credit for doing something out-of-the-ordinary for New
>>>>> Year's Eve.
>>>>
>>>>...Says the blasé-over-sophisticated (lol) waiter who spends days and
>>>>nights to stalk an audio-enthousiast on Usenet. :-)
>>>
>>> I have to wonder why, when I congratulate Arnold for doing something
>>> cool, I have to get this sort of response from you.
>>
>>Ooops, in fact I haven't read your prose. ;-)
>>
>>> Did you think I
>>> was being sarcastic?
>>
>>I don't care. :-(
>
> So, it was just auto-erotic trolling for you.

Something like that, but just to experience what you have felt all these
past long years trolling Krueger on RAO.
From you to me it's not very exciting, if you feel satisfy with this
succedaneum of pleasure, I feel a lot of pity for Mrs (Mr ?) Weil. :-)

[Michael McKelvy]

"Fella" > wrote in message
...
> Michael McKelvy wrote:
>
>
>>>>
>>>>It wasn't a contradiction. The drive units in a Sonus Faber speaker
>>>>are, or at least were available for DIY.
>>>
>>>They are HIGHLY modified before deployment and they are made FOR Sonus
>>>Faber by dynaudioa, scanspeak, etc, that doesn't necessarily mean they
>>>are sold for kit builders.
>>>
>>
>> Do you know how they are modified?
>
> I'll give you several examples.
>
> Here is quote from your favorite publication:
>
> "The paper cone is marked by cuts spiraling out from the dustcap to the
> rubber half-roll surround, these filled with a polymer adhesive. This
> treatment is said to break up standing waves in the cone."
>

Very nice, but no evidence is offered that that this mod actually does what
is claimed. The Scan-Speak drivers with Symetric Drive motors are already
among the cleanest sounding drivers made. Perhaps some comparisons with the
standard drivers would be able to show if the modification is effective in
any way. I suspect that it may only lower the resonance of the driver by
adding mass.

> http://www.stereophile.com/loudspeakerreviews/304sonus/index.html
>
> The "treatment" mentioned is done to that driver by sonus faber.
>
> "The Grand Piano is a two-way design utilizing a 7" acrylic-treated
> paper-cone woofer designed to SF's specs by SEAS,"
>
Another vague statement. This could mean nothing more than making sure the
drivers specs match unit to unit. Again we're talking about already
extremely clean drivers.


> "So, to add stiffness to the cone and optimize high-frequency dispersion,
> the 7" driver is fitted with a concave brass phase plug. According to the
> accompanying literature, a great deal of attention has been paid to the
> long-throw motor design to ensure linear behavior, particularly in the
> transition between forward and rear motion"
>
> http://stereophile.com/loudspeakerreviews/269/
>
> This "concave brass phase plug" is added there by Sonus Faber, and to a
> driver "designed to SF's specs" in the first place!!!
>
And the proof that this a real improvement or really does anything positve
to the performance is where?

>
>> Do you not think there might be something odd in the fact that the finest
>> speaker drivers in the world need to be modified for SF?
>
> That's NOT the point you goofball. The point is you claimed that the sound
> the sf's "impart" can be gotten from kits or other manufacturers.

And you still haven't demonstrated that it can't. The specs for the Grand
Piano system are not very impressive, especially compared to the SEAS Thor
Kit designed by Joe D'Appolito. You can see for yourself by going here:
http://www.madisound.com/audioXpress%20Thor%20Review.pd

> Here we have special cabinet designs, special drivers, special crossovers,
> so GOOD or BAD, to achieve the *SAME* sound with mere "kits" is just
> impossible!
>
So far you haven't shown how any of the mods make any difference to the
sound of these different speakers, all you've provided were marketing
statements. Without any direct comparison to the stock drivers that SF
sources from the statements are anecdotal.

>> Does anything in the modification have an effect on the sound or is it
>> just to give it a certain look?
>
> I ask again, DID YOU SUCK STUPID COCK!!
>
> You stupid-cock sucker, they cut driver membranes, they apply special
> glues, brass plugs, etc, HOW can such modifications NOT have an effect on
> the sound?!?!?! It wouuld take years of RESEARCH to find a way to modify
> elements in such manner WITHOUT effecting the way they sound. And WHY THE
> **** would they go to all that trouble in the first place!! ???
>
Word for the day: MARKETING.

It's quite possible that such mods can cause audible effects, but without
some sort of direct comparison to the stock units we have no idea if they
are audible or beneficial.

>
>>
>>>> The Dynaudio tweeter is now hard to come by but I beleive a few
>>>> outlests still have some in stock. This makes it possible for someone
>>>> with the skills and equipment to get the same sound
>>>
>>>You must have scuked stupid cock (or your mother must have, before
>>>****ting you in to the world) ..
>>>
>>
>> Thank you for letting everyone know that you can't discuss things like a
>> grown up.
>
>
> "Discuss things" ?!! Here we have an extreme-density-of-stupid claiming
> that one can buy a dynaudio tweeter from an outlet and with the "skills
> and equipment" get the same sound as a grand piano,

In the case of the Grand Piano, a kit builder could very likely build
something with cleaner, flatter response for less money. That is assuming
the builder stuck with the plans as laid out by the designer.

or a cremona!
> Encountered with such an IMMENSE density of stupid one HAS to ask the
> stupid-cock question!
>
Your religious devotion to SF is um, admirable, and I'm not claiming their
speakers are inferior or even ordinary. I heard some of their line and
indeed they are good. I have also heard oter speakers such as the Merlin
VSM which was is among the best sounding speakers of it's kind by anyone.
I've also heard some kits from Dynaudio, SEAS, and Scan-Speak that are
arguable as good as anything you can buy with a brand name.
>
>> How old are you? 12?
>>
>
> It's not a matter of age you slime sucking schmuck. I know of poets,
> writers, philosophers who freely swear and cuss when the situation at hand
> warrants it.
And YOU! Well, I am at a loss to FIND the appropriate,
> the proportianate cuss words for the HUGHE amount of dense stupidity you
> are displaying here!
>
Likewise I'm sure.

Why not go out and see if you can find a place to listen to the SEAS Thor
kit or the Linkwitz Orion. See and hear for yourself what is possible.
Then I think you might not be so slavish in your devotion Sonus Faber.

[Michael McKelvy]

"Fella" > wrote in message
...
> Arny Krueger wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> Fella, given that there is no such thing as *polution*, could you
>> clarify?
>
> Yeah, I'll clarify that as soon as you clarify who "your's truely" is.
>
>
>>
>>>I thought this guy was a brit
>>>somehow or another, hence the London boutique reference..
>>
>>
>> Duhhh.
>
> DUHHH! is for duh!mikey. You don't need to make any special form of
> gesture or sound to denote the extreme state of stupidity you dwell in.
>
>
>>
>>
>>>Never been Michigan though.
>>
>>
>> Probably couldn't even get a tourist's visa.
>
> Tryin to play the race card, the nationality card (again!) I see.. :)
> There is just *NO* limit of lowness you will stoop to is there?
>
It would be tough, you've set the bar pretty low.

> I business-travel to places like london, san jose california, tokyo,
> amsterdam, stockholm etc, sometimes several times a year. Never needed to
> go anywhere near the backwoods of michigan though. I'll check from my
> travel agent and see if michigan applies some sort of a special visa to
> finnish passports and get back to you. :)
>
>
>>
>>
>>>So is there a shop in michigan where one could
>>>audition a pair of sonus faber stradivaris?
>>
>>
>> http://overture-audio.com/product_lines/sonus_faber/intro.html is quite
>> close to home. But they say nothing about having that particular
>> speaker on demo.
>
> Well this one would be enough for you to hang your head in shame:
>
> http://overture-audio.com/product_lines/sonus_faber/grand_piano.html
>
> And this one to hang your self from the nearest branch:
>
> http://overture-audio.com/product_lines/sonus_faber/amati.html
>
>
No matter how nice their speakers sound, the man reason for their high price
is the labor intensive cabinetry. Nothing wrong with good looking cabinets,
but I still prefer to put my money into the drivers and performance.

[dave weil]

On Wed, 05 Jan 2005 18:30:46 +0100, Lionel >
wrote:

>dave weil wrote:
>
>> On Wed, 05 Jan 2005 17:59:15 +0100, Lionel >
>> wrote:
>>
>>>dave weil wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Wed, 05 Jan 2005 15:37:55 +0100, Lionel >
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>dave weil a écrit :
>>>>>
>>>>>> I'll give you credit for doing something out-of-the-ordinary for New
>>>>>> Year's Eve.
>>>>>
>>>>>...Says the blasé-over-sophisticated (lol) waiter who spends days and
>>>>>nights to stalk an audio-enthousiast on Usenet. :-)
>>>>
>>>> I have to wonder why, when I congratulate Arnold for doing something
>>>> cool, I have to get this sort of response from you.
>>>
>>>Ooops, in fact I haven't read your prose. ;-)
>>>
>>>> Did you think I
>>>> was being sarcastic?
>>>
>>>I don't care. :-(
>>
>> So, it was just auto-erotic trolling for you.
>
>Something like that, but just to experience what you have felt all these
>past long years trolling Krueger on RAO.
>From you to me it's not very exciting, if you feel satisfy with this
>succedaneum of pleasure, I feel a lot of pity for Mrs (Mr ?) Weil. :-)

Since it's you and not me that needs USENET to get off, it's actually
Liomoiselle that *I* feel sorry for.

[Lionel]

dave weil a écrit :
> On Wed, 05 Jan 2005 18:30:46 +0100, Lionel >
> wrote:
>
>
>>dave weil wrote:
>>
>>
>>>On Wed, 05 Jan 2005 17:59:15 +0100, Lionel >
>>>wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>dave weil wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>On Wed, 05 Jan 2005 15:37:55 +0100, Lionel >
>>>>>wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>dave weil a écrit :
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>I'll give you credit for doing something out-of-the-ordinary for New
>>>>>>>Year's Eve.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>...Says the blasé-over-sophisticated (lol) waiter who spends days and
>>>>>>nights to stalk an audio-enthousiast on Usenet. :-)
>>>>>
>>>>>I have to wonder why, when I congratulate Arnold for doing something
>>>>>cool, I have to get this sort of response from you.
>>>>
>>>>Ooops, in fact I haven't read your prose. ;-)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>Did you think I
>>>>>was being sarcastic?
>>>>
>>>>I don't care. :-(
>>>
>>>So, it was just auto-erotic trolling for you.
>>
>>Something like that, but just to experience what you have felt all these
>>past long years trolling Krueger on RAO.
>
>>From you to me it's not very exciting, if you feel satisfy with this
>
>>succedaneum of pleasure, I feel a lot of pity for Mrs (Mr ?) Weil. :-)
>
>
> Since it's you and not me that needs USENET to get off, it's actually
> Liomoiselle that *I* feel sorry for.

Don't be modest, *YOU* have the RAO longest history of useless trolling
and kitchen gossips...
*YOU* are the midinette, an old man cross-dressed in midinette. What an
achievement ! What a pity ! :-)

[Lionel]

Paul Dormer a écrit :
> "Arny Krueger" emitted :
>
>
>>London is one of those places I like to stay away from, if I can. It
>>smells bad, looks very gritty, and has way too many stinkin' bodies in
>>too few square meters.
>
>
> B&B in Kings Cross huh? I'd recommend Kensington, but it's clearly out
> of your price range.

Between you and me *London* is out of price range of a lot of people,
even if a lot of them try to survive in London.


>
>
> S i g n a l @ l i n e o n e . n e t
> -----------------------------------
> It's Grim up north..

[Lionel]

Paul Dormer a écrit :
> "Lionel" emitted :
>
>
>>>>London is one of those places I like to stay away from, if I can. It
>>>>smells bad, looks very gritty, and has way too many stinkin' bodies in
>>>>too few square meters.
>>>
>>>B&B in Kings Cross huh? I'd recommend Kensington, but it's clearly out
>>>of your price range.
>>
>>Between you and me *London* is out of price range of a lot of people,
>>even if a lot of them try to survive in London.
>
>
> No, that's nonsense. Salaries in London reflect the living costs.

Nonsense Gagman ?
The average cost for m² in London is about 15,000 euros the double than
in Paris. Do you think that the average appointment in London is the
double than in Paris ?
LOL !

> S i g n a l @ l i n e o n e . n e t
> -----------------------------------
> It's Grim up north..

[Schizoid Man]

"Paul Dormer" > wrote in message

> "Lionel" emitted :
>
>>>>London is one of those places I like to stay away from, if I can. It
>>>>smells bad, looks very gritty, and has way too many stinkin' bodies in
>>>>too few square meters.
>>>
>>> B&B in Kings Cross huh? I'd recommend Kensington, but it's clearly out
>>> of your price range.
>>
>>Between you and me *London* is out of price range of a lot of people,
>>even if a lot of them try to survive in London.
>
> No, that's nonsense. Salaries in London reflect the living costs.

I don't know if I agree with that. I used to own a studio in Sloane Square
which I sold for just north of 450,000 quid. My sister's old pad in St
John's Wood (by no means the really ritzy part) is a 3,000 sf place that has
been appraised for just over 2 million quid, roughly 4 million dollars.

That kind of money would buy some serious square footage in Manhattan with
some ludicrous views, and I can't believe that London salaries are higher
than New York's. The property market in the UK, especially in certain bits
of London, have gone barmy.

[Schizoid Man]

"Lionel" > wrote in message

> Paul Dormer a écrit :
>> "Lionel" emitted :
>>
>>
>>>>>London is one of those places I like to stay away from, if I can. It
>>>>>smells bad, looks very gritty, and has way too many stinkin' bodies in
>>>>>too few square meters.
>>>>
>>>>B&B in Kings Cross huh? I'd recommend Kensington, but it's clearly out
>>>>of your price range.
>>>
>>>Between you and me *London* is out of price range of a lot of people,
>>>even if a lot of them try to survive in London.
>>
>>
>> No, that's nonsense. Salaries in London reflect the living costs.
>
> Nonsense Gagman ?
> The average cost for m² in London is about 15,000 euros the double than in
> Paris. Do you think that the average appointment in London is the double
> than in Paris ?
> LOL !

And how exactly did you arrive at this statistic, Lionel? Comparing
Gennevilliers with Kensington?

[Lionel]

Schizoid Man a écrit :
> "Lionel" > wrote in message
>
>
>>Paul Dormer a écrit :
>>
>>>"Lionel" emitted :
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>>>London is one of those places I like to stay away from, if I can. It
>>>>>>smells bad, looks very gritty, and has way too many stinkin' bodies in
>>>>>>too few square meters.
>>>>>
>>>>>B&B in Kings Cross huh? I'd recommend Kensington, but it's clearly out
>>>>>of your price range.
>>>>
>>>>Between you and me *London* is out of price range of a lot of people,
>>>>even if a lot of them try to survive in London.
>>>
>>>
>>>No, that's nonsense. Salaries in London reflect the living costs.
>>
>>Nonsense Gagman ?
>>The average cost for m² in London is about 15,000 euros the double than in
>>Paris. Do you think that the average appointment in London is the double
>>than in Paris ?
>>LOL !
>
>
> And how exactly did you arrive at this statistic, Lionel? Comparing
> Gennevilliers with Kensington?

Gennevilliers isn't Paris. If I write Paris this means Paris intra-muros
only.

"A Londres, le mètre carré vaut aujourd’hui pratiquement 15 000 euros,
un bond de près de 20% en un an. Si Paris reste moitié moins chère que
la capitale britannique, les prix continuent de grimper."

http://www.lexpansion.com/NLConj/2501.27.html

[Clyde Slick]

"Fella" > wrote in message
...
> Arny Krueger wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> Fella, given that there is no such thing as *polution*, could you
>> clarify?
>
> Yeah, I'll clarify that as soon as you clarify who "your's truely" is.
>

Let's have a 'tournement' of dueling typos!

[Ruud Broens]

"Schizoid Man" > wrote in message
...
:
: "Paul Dormer" > wrote in message
:
: > "Lionel" emitted :
: >
: >>>>London is one of those places I like to stay away from, if I can.
It
: >>>>smells bad, looks very gritty, and has way too many stinkin' bodies
in
: >>>>too few square meters.
: >>>
: >>> B&B in Kings Cross huh? I'd recommend Kensington, but it's clearly
out
: >>> of your price range.
: >>
: >>Between you and me *London* is out of price range of a lot of people,
: >>even if a lot of them try to survive in London.
: >
: > No, that's nonsense. Salaries in London reflect the living costs.
:
: I don't know if I agree with that. I used to own a studio in Sloane
Square
: which I sold for just north of 450,000 quid. My sister's old pad in St
: John's Wood (by no means the really ritzy part) is a 3,000 sf place
that has
: been appraised for just over 2 million quid, roughly 4 million dollars.
:
: That kind of money would buy some serious square footage in Manhattan
with
: some ludicrous views, and I can't believe that London salaries are
higher
: than New York's. The property market in the UK, especially in certain
bits
: of London, have gone barmy.
:
They have gone 'the Tokio way' for sure ;)
Rudy

[Clyde Slick]

"Lionel" > wrote in message
...
> Paul Dormer a écrit :
>> "Lionel" emitted :
>>
>>
>>>>>London is one of those places I like to stay away from, if I can. It
>>>>>smells bad, looks very gritty, and has way too many stinkin' bodies in
>>>>>too few square meters.
>>>>
>>>>B&B in Kings Cross huh? I'd recommend Kensington, but it's clearly out
>>>>of your price range.
>>>
>>>Between you and me *London* is out of price range of a lot of people,
>>>even if a lot of them try to survive in London.
>>
>>
>> No, that's nonsense. Salaries in London reflect the living costs.
>
> Nonsense Gagman ?
> The average cost for m² in London is about 15,000 euros the double than in
> Paris. Do you think that the average appointment in London is the double
> than in Paris ?
> LOL !
>

True, look at our SF. The higher salaries still don't offset the
astronomical living costs.

[Schizoid Man]

"Clyde Slick" > wrote in message

>> Nonsense Gagman ?
>> The average cost for m² in London is about 15,000 euros the double than
>> in Paris. Do you think that the average appointment in London is the
>> double than in Paris ?
>> LOL !
>>
>
> True, look at our SF. The higher salaries still don't offset the
> astronomical living costs.

Now that I have relocated to San Francisco, I can completely understand.
Even so, the rents in this place do not compare to New York, which in turn
are a fraction of what they are in London.

[Fella]

Michael McKelvy wrote:

>
> Why not go out and see if you can find a place to listen to the SEAS Thor
> kit or the Linkwitz Orion. See and hear for yourself what is possible.
> Then I think you might not be so slavish in your devotion Sonus Faber.
>
>

I'm pondering here, now, being as dumb as you are (and I *do* stress on
that word *DUMB*) that you define a new dimension of dumb, would you
really think that this dumb and feeble attempt at missing the point is
going to fool anyone? Oh, wait, being as DUMB as you are ... yes, you
would, you wood.

[Clyde Slick]

"Fella" > wrote in message
...
> Michael McKelvy wrote:
>
>>
>> Why not go out and see if you can find a place to listen to the SEAS Thor
>> kit or the Linkwitz Orion. See and hear for yourself what is possible.
>> Then I think you might not be so slavish in your devotion Sonus Faber.
>
> I'm pondering here, now, being as dumb as you are (and I *do* stress on
> that word *DUMB*) that you define a new dimension of dumb, would you
> really think that this dumb and feeble attempt at missing the point is
> going to fool anyone? Oh, wait, being as DUMB as you are ... yes, you
> would, you wood.

In describing Mikey, one has to be aware of the
subtle differences between dumb, stupid and idiot.
The subject is open for discussion.

[Sander deWaal]

Fella > said:

>What comes to Sonus Faber... Have you ever auditioned them Sander? I
>would value your opinion. For instance the cremona, or the amati homage,
>or the stradivari? I haven't a big enough listening room for the
>mentioned but the concerto grand piano's do wonders for me.

A lonmg time ago, in a galaxy far, war away............
I used to work for an audio dealer and we carried Sonus Fabers.
I didn't listen to them extensively, but what I remember from them was
the excellent detail and sweetness of the mid- and high range.
The Esotar tweeter was/is one of the best IMO.
I don't recall the model names, but it could well have been the electa
Amator or Amati.
Besides the good sound, they look exceptionally well-crafted and are
beauties to behold.

My musical tastes lead me towards electrostatics and magnetostatics,
but in the realm of dynamic speakers, the various SF still score very
high in my personal favorite list.

>Sonus Faber makes romantic, musical and sweet speakers, once you hear
>them, you even forget about their looks!

Well ummm.......the looks are definitely part of the package IMO.

--
Sander de Waal
" SOA of a KT88? Sufficient. "

[Michael McKelvy]

"Fella" > wrote in message
...
> Michael McKelvy wrote:
>
>>
>> Why not go out and see if you can find a place to listen to the SEAS Thor
>> kit or the Linkwitz Orion. See and hear for yourself what is possible.
>> Then I think you might not be so slavish in your devotion Sonus Faber.
>
> I'm pondering here, now, being as dumb as you are (and I *do* stress on
> that word *DUMB*) that you define a new dimension of dumb, would you
> really think that this dumb and feeble attempt at missing the point is
> going to fool anyone? Oh, wait, being as DUMB as you are ... yes, you
> would, you wood.

The point is that you do not believe that it is possible to achieve the same
sort of results from a well designed kit as is possible from something by
Sonus faber. You are in correct.

[Michael McKelvy]

"Clyde Slick" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Fella" > wrote in message
> ...
>> Michael McKelvy wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Why not go out and see if you can find a place to listen to the SEAS
>>> Thor kit or the Linkwitz Orion. See and hear for yourself what is
>>> possible. Then I think you might not be so slavish in your devotion
>>> Sonus Faber.
>>
>> I'm pondering here, now, being as dumb as you are (and I *do* stress on
>> that word *DUMB*) that you define a new dimension of dumb, would you
>> really think that this dumb and feeble attempt at missing the point is
>> going to fool anyone? Oh, wait, being as DUMB as you are ... yes, you
>> would, you wood.
>
> In describing Mikey, one has to be aware of the
> subtle differences between dumb, stupid and idiot.
> The subject is open for discussion.
>
Think how desperately dull this place would be without me.

[Goofball_star_dot_etal]

On Thu, 06 Jan 2005 20:05:39 +0000, Paul Dormer >
wrote:


>No.. people in London are doing OK.. the real issue is for first time
>buyers,and that applies *anywhere* in the UK...
>
> ..........except Wales ;-)


>It's Grim up north..

At least(tm) I have a view, troll.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/wales/4002149.stm

[Lionel]

Paul Dormer a écrit :

> But the subject was Londoners "trying to survive". For the
> general proletariat living in and working around London, salaries have
> risen inline with mortgage expectations.

This is totally wrong a lot of people have been obliged to leave London
because they cannot pay their rent anymore.
Paul Dormer, in real informed Fnglish gentleman that he is, perfectly
knows this problem but he cannot accept that a stupid little french guy
tells him the true about his home country...
This the well known English genetical alteration... ;-)

http://observer.guardian.co.uk/cash/story/0,6903,378912,00.html
"The Joseph Rowntree Foundation finds that 48,000 more people leave
London each year than move to the capital from other parts of the country."

http://www.london.gov.uk/mayor/housing/facts_figures.jsp
"In the Mayor's 2002 annual opinion survey of Londoners, the cost of
housing was ranked among the top three worst things about London, while
over half of those surveyed thought that affordable housing and property
prices should be one of the top priorities for improving London as a
place to live."

If interested by this problem you can also read that :
http://www.jrf.org.uk/bookshop/eBooks/2022.pdf

or

http://www.pcha.org.uk/fso_livesite/genesis/about/documents/Genesis_Business_Plan_A4.pdf
"In the Mayor’s “Annual opinion survey of Londoners” the cost of
housing was ranked among the top three worst things about London.
The Prime Minister’s strategy unit also found that housing was one of
the top two reasons why people leave London. The research estimates
that the capital stands to lose some 17,000 of its 600,000 key workers
in this year alone. The average cost of renting a home in the private
sector is £280 a week or £14,560 per year, which is completely
unaffordable for the majority of London’s low paid key workers.
The lack of quality affordable housing is seen by government as a
serious challenge to both economic competitiveness and social equity in
London."

[Lionel]

Paul Dormer a écrit :
> "Goofball_star_dot_etal" emitted :
>
>
>>>No.. people in London are doing OK.. the real issue is for first time
>>>buyers,and that applies *anywhere* in the UK...
>>>
>>> ..........except Wales ;-)
>>
>>At least(tm) I have a view, troll.
>>http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/wales/4002149.stm
>
>
> Good for you, David. I took a picture on that beach summer 2003.
> http://home.clara.net/media/DSCN2236.JPG
>
> Very exciting place!!

The sage says :
"C'est quand il n'y a pas grand monde qu'il y a grand chose"


> S i g n a l @ l i n e o n e . n e t
> -----------------------------------
> It's Grim up north..

[Goofball_star_dot_etal]

On Thu, 06 Jan 2005 21:18:21 +0000, Paul Dormer >
wrote:

>"Goofball_star_dot_etal" emitted :
>
>>>No.. people in London are doing OK.. the real issue is for first time
>>>buyers,and that applies *anywhere* in the UK...
>>>
>>> ..........except Wales ;-)
>>
>>At least(tm) I have a view, troll.
>>http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/wales/4002149.stm
>
>Good for you, David. I took a picture on that beach summer 2003.
>http://home.clara.net/media/DSCN2236.JPG
>
Hmmm. Looks like the "nudist" beach.

Heck, you should have said. I know people with boats!
http://www.wareing.dircon.co.uk/images/partial.jpg
You could have puked on some dolphins.
http://www.wareing.dircon.co.uk/images/dolphins.jpg
Next time, perhaps.

>Very exciting place!!

.. . .At least there are enough pubs.

>
>
>
>S i g n a l @ l i n e o n e . n e t
>-----------------------------------
>It's Grim up north..

Actually, either Manchester Uni are going to pay me to stay here (I
hope) or I will be out of a job this year. I ain't going back up
there. . . Except for visits.

[Schizoid Man]

"Lionel" > wrote in message

> Paul Dormer a écrit :
>
>> But the subject was Londoners "trying to survive". For the
>> general proletariat living in and working around London, salaries have
>> risen inline with mortgage expectations.
>
> This is totally wrong a lot of people have been obliged to leave London
> because they cannot pay their rent anymore.
> Paul Dormer, in real informed Fnglish gentleman that he is, perfectly
> knows this problem but he cannot accept that a stupid little french guy
> tells him the true about his home country...
> This the well known English genetical alteration... ;-)
>
> http://observer.guardian.co.uk/cash/story/0,6903,378912,00.html
> "The Joseph Rowntree Foundation finds that 48,000 more people leave London
> each year than move to the capital from other parts of the country."

One of the reasons could be the number of immigrants that have moved into
the interiors of London. Notably areas like Hampstead, Kensington and
Chelsea.

[Lionel]

Paul Dormer a écrit :

> * 48,000 is a piddling amount anyway.. just 0.5% of London's
> population.

That's right, moreover if you can afford to not be one of them.

[Lionel]

Schizoid Man a écrit :
> "Lionel" > wrote in message
>
>
>>Paul Dormer a écrit :
>>
>>
>>>But the subject was Londoners "trying to survive". For the
>>>general proletariat living in and working around London, salaries have
>>>risen inline with mortgage expectations.
>>
>>This is totally wrong a lot of people have been obliged to leave London
>>because they cannot pay their rent anymore.
>>Paul Dormer, in real informed Fnglish gentleman that he is, perfectly
>>knows this problem but he cannot accept that a stupid little french guy
>>tells him the true about his home country...
>>This the well known English genetical alteration... ;-)
>>
>>http://observer.guardian.co.uk/cash/story/0,6903,378912,00.html
>>"The Joseph Rowntree Foundation finds that 48,000 more people leave London
>>each year than move to the capital from other parts of the country."
>
>
> One of the reasons could be the number of immigrants that have moved into
> the interiors of London. Notably areas like Hampstead, Kensington and
> Chelsea.

The fact is that "London" is *abnormally* expensive and that the main
cause is the real estate speculation.
Obviously the phenomena touchs all European capitals but in this matter
London is a kind of caricature.

[Schizoid Man]

"Lionel" > wrote in message

> Schizoid Man a écrit :

>> One of the reasons could be the number of immigrants that have moved into
>> the interiors of London. Notably areas like Hampstead, Kensington and
>> Chelsea.
>
> The fact is that "London" is *abnormally* expensive and that the main
> cause is the real estate speculation.
> Obviously the phenomena touchs all European capitals but in this matter
> London is a kind of caricature.

I know. I hear ye. I sold my Sloane Square studio (studio) for slightly
under half a million pounds.

[dave weil]

On Thu, 06 Jan 2005 23:33:46 +0000, Paul Dormer >
wrote:

>"Lionel" emitted :
>
>>The fact is that "London" is *abnormally* expensive and that the main
>>cause is the real estate speculation.
>>Obviously the phenomena touchs all European capitals but in this matter
>>London is a kind of caricature.
>
>It's almost as expensive, in general, where I live - and numerous
>other locales outside of London too. A moderately sized two bedroom
>warehouse conversion flat in inner city Manchester will routinely cost
>£0.5m upward, and be sold prior to completion. A *small* terrace in a
>busy prime rural location, £0.25m easy. You are confusing the
>craziness of the overall housing market for one specific area.
>
>
>S i g n a l @ l i n e o n e . n e t
>-----------------------------------
>It's Grim down south..

http://www.finfacts.com/costofliving4.htm

1 (1) Tokyo Japan 143
2 (2) Osaka Kobe Japan 137
3 (7) Paris France 130
3 (3) Oslo Norway 130
5 (6) Copenhagen Denmark 129
6 (4) Zurich Switzerland 125
6 (10) London UK 125

Anyone can find anything on the 'net to support a point of view.

[Schizoid Man]

"Paul Dormer" > wrote in message

> "dave weil" emitted :
>
>>>>The fact is that "London" is *abnormally* expensive and that the main
>>>>cause is the real estate speculation.
>>>>Obviously the phenomena touchs all European capitals but in this matter
>>>>London is a kind of caricature.
>>>
>>>It's almost as expensive, in general, where I live - and numerous
>>>other locales outside of London too. A moderately sized two bedroom
>>>warehouse conversion flat in inner city Manchester will routinely cost
>>>£0.5m upward, and be sold prior to completion. A *small* terrace in a
>>>busy prime rural location, £0.25m easy. You are confusing the
>>>craziness of the overall housing market for one specific area.
>>>
>>>
>>>S i g n a l @ l i n e o n e . n e t
>>>-----------------------------------
>>>It's Grim down south..
>>
>>http://www.finfacts.com/costofliving4.htm
>>
>>1 (1) Tokyo Japan 143
>>2 (2) Osaka Kobe Japan 137
>>3 (7) Paris France 130
>>3 (3) Oslo Norway 130
>>5 (6) Copenhagen Denmark 129
>>6 (4) Zurich Switzerland 125
>>6 (10) London UK 125
>>
>>Anyone can find anything on the 'net to support a point of view.
>
> Paris more expensive than London.. FU Lionel woohoo!! :-)

That's because the 17.5% VAT (sales tax to the Yanks) that we pay in England
is still less (if you can believe that) than the whopping 19.someodd% that
the French pay.

Plus a coffee and bagel will set you back by about 10 euros in one of the
'starving artist' cafes in Montmarte.

London is expensive as far as rent and housing goes. Paris is expensive
wholesale.

[Lionel]

Paul Dormer a écrit :
> "Lionel" emitted :
>
>
>>The fact is that "London" is *abnormally* expensive and that the main
>>cause is the real estate speculation.
>>Obviously the phenomena touchs all European capitals but in this matter
>>London is a kind of caricature.
>
>
> It's almost as expensive, in general, where I live - and numerous
> other locales outside of London too. A moderately sized two bedroom
> warehouse conversion flat in inner city Manchester will routinely cost
> £0.5m upward, and be sold prior to completion. A *small* terrace in a
> busy prime rural location, £0.25m easy. You are confusing the
> craziness of the overall housing market for one specific area.

Zzzzzzzzz


> S i g n a l @ l i n e o n e . n e t
> -----------------------------------
> It's Grim down south..

[Lionel]

Paul Dormer a écrit :
> "Lionel" emitted :

> [*I note you are more concerned about they who have the tenacity to
> move out of poverty rather than they who suffer at the hands of it..]

I note that you are a vexed and that it's very funny. ;-)



>
> S i g n a l @ l i n e o n e . n e t
> -----------------------------------
> It's Grim down south..

[Lionel]

Schizoid Man a écrit :
> "Lionel" > wrote in message
>
>
>>Schizoid Man a écrit :
>
>
>>>One of the reasons could be the number of immigrants that have moved into
>>>the interiors of London. Notably areas like Hampstead, Kensington and
>>>Chelsea.
>>
>>The fact is that "London" is *abnormally* expensive and that the main
>>cause is the real estate speculation.
>>Obviously the phenomena touchs all European capitals but in this matter
>>London is a kind of caricature.
>
>
> I know. I hear ye. I sold my Sloane Square studio (studio) for slightly
> under half a million pounds.

I knew that paranoid guys could be good business men but you are the
first schizoid one I meet. ;-)

[Lionel]

Paul Dormer a écrit :
> "dave weil" emitted :
>
>
>>>>The fact is that "London" is *abnormally* expensive and that the main
>>>>cause is the real estate speculation.
>>>>Obviously the phenomena touchs all European capitals but in this matter
>>>>London is a kind of caricature.
>>>
>>>It's almost as expensive, in general, where I live - and numerous
>>>other locales outside of London too. A moderately sized two bedroom
>>>warehouse conversion flat in inner city Manchester will routinely cost
>>>£0.5m upward, and be sold prior to completion. A *small* terrace in a
>>>busy prime rural location, £0.25m easy. You are confusing the
>>>craziness of the overall housing market for one specific area.
>>>
>>>
>>>S i g n a l @ l i n e o n e . n e t
>>>-----------------------------------
>>>It's Grim down south..
>>
>>http://www.finfacts.com/costofliving4.htm
>>
>>1 (1) Tokyo Japan 143
>>2 (2) Osaka Kobe Japan 137
>>3 (7) Paris France 130
>>3 (3) Oslo Norway 130
>>5 (6) Copenhagen Denmark 129
>>6 (4) Zurich Switzerland 125
>>6 (10) London UK 125
>>
>>Anyone can find anything on the 'net to support a point of view.
>
>
> Paris more expensive than London.. FU Lionel woohoo!! :-)
>
> [Where the heck is Monaco? ;-)]

LOL, less expensive in Dave Weil stats...
FU Dave woohoo!!

>
>
> S i g n a l @ l i n e o n e . n e t
> -----------------------------------
> It's Grim down south..

[Lionel]

dave weil a écrit :
> On Thu, 06 Jan 2005 23:33:46 +0000, Paul Dormer >
> wrote:
>
>
>>"Lionel" emitted :
>>
>>
>>>The fact is that "London" is *abnormally* expensive and that the main
>>>cause is the real estate speculation.
>>>Obviously the phenomena touchs all European capitals but in this matter
>>>London is a kind of caricature.
>>
>>It's almost as expensive, in general, where I live - and numerous
>>other locales outside of London too. A moderately sized two bedroom
>>warehouse conversion flat in inner city Manchester will routinely cost
>>£0.5m upward, and be sold prior to completion. A *small* terrace in a
>>busy prime rural location, £0.25m easy. You are confusing the
>>craziness of the overall housing market for one specific area.
>>
>>
>>S i g n a l @ l i n e o n e . n e t
>>-----------------------------------
>>It's Grim down south..
>
>
> http://www.finfacts.com/costofliving4.htm
>
> 1 (1) Tokyo Japan 143
> 2 (2) Osaka Kobe Japan 137
> 3 (7) Paris France 130
> 3 (3) Oslo Norway 130
> 5 (6) Copenhagen Denmark 129
> 6 (4) Zurich Switzerland 125
> 6 (10) London UK 125
>
> Anyone can find anything on the 'net to support a point of view.
>


Dave Weil is a little bit dense, but it's normal he lives in a country
where the bass are travelling slower than the trebble.
The most important with Dave is to give him simple examples that he can
understand easily :
Dave you want to spend between 125 and 130 USD in a restaurant you have
the choice between 2. the first one offer you a light but equilibrated
on with cheese *and* dessert and cost you USD 130.00. The second is less
expensive (USD 125,00) but offer you a sad green salad without
vinegrette and a glass of water.
The second restaurant cannot offer more to the customer because the boss
is paying a very high rent to his landlord.
In the statistics the cost of the second is less expensive Dave but you
cannot survive a long time with a sad green salad and a glass of water.

This is named the structure of the consommation and can be find in any
economical school book for teenagers.

Still vexed ?

[dave weil]

On Fri, 07 Jan 2005 08:21:33 +0100, Lionel >
wrote:

>dave weil a écrit :
>> On Thu, 06 Jan 2005 23:33:46 +0000, Paul Dormer >
>> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>"Lionel" emitted :
>>>
>>>
>>>>The fact is that "London" is *abnormally* expensive and that the main
>>>>cause is the real estate speculation.
>>>>Obviously the phenomena touchs all European capitals but in this matter
>>>>London is a kind of caricature.
>>>
>>>It's almost as expensive, in general, where I live - and numerous
>>>other locales outside of London too. A moderately sized two bedroom
>>>warehouse conversion flat in inner city Manchester will routinely cost
>>>£0.5m upward, and be sold prior to completion. A *small* terrace in a
>>>busy prime rural location, £0.25m easy. You are confusing the
>>>craziness of the overall housing market for one specific area.
>>>
>>>
>>>S i g n a l @ l i n e o n e . n e t
>>>-----------------------------------
>>>It's Grim down south..
>>
>>
>> http://www.finfacts.com/costofliving4.htm
>>
>> 1 (1) Tokyo Japan 143
>> 2 (2) Osaka Kobe Japan 137
>> 3 (7) Paris France 130
>> 3 (3) Oslo Norway 130
>> 5 (6) Copenhagen Denmark 129
>> 6 (4) Zurich Switzerland 125
>> 6 (10) London UK 125
>>
>> Anyone can find anything on the 'net to support a point of view.
>>
>
>
>Dave Weil is a little bit dense, but it's normal he lives in a country
>where the bass are travelling slower than the trebble.
>The most important with Dave is to give him simple examples that he can
>understand easily :
>Dave you want to spend between 125 and 130 USD in a restaurant you have
>the choice between 2. the first one offer you a light but equilibrated
>on with cheese *and* dessert and cost you USD 130.00. The second is less
>expensive (USD 125,00) but offer you a sad green salad without
>vinegrette and a glass of water.
>The second restaurant cannot offer more to the customer because the boss
>is paying a very high rent to his landlord.
>In the statistics the cost of the second is less expensive Dave but you
>cannot survive a long time with a sad green salad and a glass of water.
>
>This is named the structure of the consommation and can be find in any
>economical school book for teenagers.
>
>Still vexed ?

I'm not the vexed one who told someone to **** off, now am I Lionel?

I just want to note that you also can't survive very long if the sad
green salad and a glass of water costs 100 USD unless you are very
rich. This is called an excessive cost of living and can be found in
any comparison of places to live.

If one only had to pay rent/mortgage, it would be one thing. But
people have to eat. And pay for utilities. And pay taxes. And get from
one place to another. And occasionally have some fun.

But you won't find me dissing your capital just because I don't like
you. You should try it some time.

[Lionel]

dave weil a écrit :
> On Fri, 07 Jan 2005 08:21:33 +0100, Lionel >
> wrote:
>
>
>>dave weil a écrit :
>>
>>>On Thu, 06 Jan 2005 23:33:46 +0000, Paul Dormer >
>>>wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>"Lionel" emitted :
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>The fact is that "London" is *abnormally* expensive and that the main
>>>>>cause is the real estate speculation.
>>>>>Obviously the phenomena touchs all European capitals but in this matter
>>>>>London is a kind of caricature.
>>>>
>>>>It's almost as expensive, in general, where I live - and numerous
>>>>other locales outside of London too. A moderately sized two bedroom
>>>>warehouse conversion flat in inner city Manchester will routinely cost
>>>>£0.5m upward, and be sold prior to completion. A *small* terrace in a
>>>>busy prime rural location, £0.25m easy. You are confusing the
>>>>craziness of the overall housing market for one specific area.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>S i g n a l @ l i n e o n e . n e t
>>>>-----------------------------------
>>>>It's Grim down south..
>>>
>>>
>>>http://www.finfacts.com/costofliving4.htm
>>>
>>>1 (1) Tokyo Japan 143
>>>2 (2) Osaka Kobe Japan 137
>>>3 (7) Paris France 130
>>>3 (3) Oslo Norway 130
>>>5 (6) Copenhagen Denmark 129
>>>6 (4) Zurich Switzerland 125
>>>6 (10) London UK 125
>>>
>>>Anyone can find anything on the 'net to support a point of view.


But nobody can guarentee that it will be correctly understood... ;-)


>>Dave Weil is a little bit dense, but it's normal he lives in a country
>>where the bass are travelling slower than the trebble.
>>The most important with Dave is to give him simple examples that he can
>>understand easily :
>>Dave you want to spend between 125 and 130 USD in a restaurant you have
>>the choice between 2. the first one offer you a light but equilibrated
>>on with cheese *and* dessert and cost you USD 130.00. The second is less
>>expensive (USD 125,00) but offer you a sad green salad without
>>vinegrette and a glass of water.
>>The second restaurant cannot offer more to the customer because the boss
>>is paying a very high rent to his landlord.
>>In the statistics the cost of the second is less expensive Dave but you
>>cannot survive a long time with a sad green salad and a glass of water.
>>
>>This is named the structure of the consommation and can be find in any
>>economical school book for teenagers.
>>
>>Still vexed ?
>
>
> I'm not the vexed one who told someone to **** off, now am I Lionel?

:o)

> I just want to note that you also can't survive very long if the sad
> green salad and a glass of water costs 100 USD unless you are very
> rich. This is called an excessive cost of living and can be found in
> any comparison of places to live.
>
> If one only had to pay rent/mortgage, it would be one thing. But
> people have to eat. And pay for utilities. And pay taxes. And get from
> one place to another. And occasionally have some fun.

Blah, blah, blah...
Zzzzzzzzz.

> But you won't find me dissing your capital just because I don't like
> you. You should try it some time.

Sorry but you have lost the Accordion on this one Dave.
Don't worry you remain my prefered waiter-speaker-reviewer.
I kiss you on the nose. :-)

[Lionel]

dave weil a écrit :

> But you won't find me dissing your capital just because I don't like
> you. You should try it some time.

Ooops, I appreciate Paul Dormer very much he is one of the only one real
democrat of this NG (I suspect that he has the money to assume correctly
this luxe).
Anyway, it's not my fault if he has herited of the English syndrome and
that he don't like French people. ;-)

Just for your info :

http://www.finfacts.ie/costofliving.htm

2004 statisitcs :

"The survey covers 144 cities and measures the comparative cost of over
200 items in each location. These include housing, food, clothing and
household goods as well as transportation and entertainment."

"Tokyo and London are world’s most expensive cities; Asuncion in
Paraguay is cheapest"

London is at the second place with an indice of 119
Paris is at the 17th place with an indice of 94.8 (just behind Shanghai)

This is the second Accordion that you are losing today... :-)

[Clyde Slick]

"Lionel" > wrote in message
...
> dave weil a écrit :
>> On Fri, 07 Jan 2005 08:21:33 +0100, Lionel >
>> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>dave weil a écrit :
>>>
>>>>On Thu, 06 Jan 2005 23:33:46 +0000, Paul Dormer >
>>>>wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>"Lionel" emitted :
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>The fact is that "London" is *abnormally* expensive and that the main
>>>>>>cause is the real estate speculation.
>>>>>>Obviously the phenomena touchs all European capitals but in this
>>>>>>matter London is a kind of caricature.
>>>>>
>>>>>It's almost as expensive, in general, where I live - and numerous
>>>>>other locales outside of London too. A moderately sized two bedroom
>>>>>warehouse conversion flat in inner city Manchester will routinely cost
>>>>>£0.5m upward, and be sold prior to completion. A *small* terrace in a
>>>>>busy prime rural location, £0.25m easy. You are confusing the
>>>>>craziness of the overall housing market for one specific area.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>S i g n a l @ l i n e o n e . n e t
>>>>>-----------------------------------
>>>>>It's Grim down south..
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>http://www.finfacts.com/costofliving4.htm
>>>>
>>>>1 (1) Tokyo Japan 143 2 (2) Osaka Kobe Japan 137 3 (7) Paris France 130
>>>>3 (3) Oslo Norway 130 5 (6) Copenhagen Denmark 129 6 (4) Zurich
>>>>Switzerland 125 6 (10) London UK 125
>>>>Anyone can find anything on the 'net to support a point of view.
>
>
> But nobody can guarentee that it will be correctly understood... ;-)
>
>
>>>Dave Weil is a little bit dense, but it's normal he lives in a country
>>>where the bass are travelling slower than the trebble.
>>>The most important with Dave is to give him simple examples that he can
>>>understand easily :
>>>Dave you want to spend between 125 and 130 USD in a restaurant you have
>>>the choice between 2. the first one offer you a light but equilibrated on
>>>with cheese *and* dessert and cost you USD 130.00. The second is less
>>>expensive (USD 125,00) but offer you a sad green salad without vinegrette
>>>and a glass of water.
>>>The second restaurant cannot offer more to the customer because the boss
>>>is paying a very high rent to his landlord.
>>>In the statistics the cost of the second is less expensive Dave but you
>>>cannot survive a long time with a sad green salad and a glass of water.
>>>
>>>This is named the structure of the consommation and can be find in any
>>>economical school book for teenagers.
>>>
>>>Still vexed ?
>>
>>
>> I'm not the vexed one who told someone to **** off, now am I Lionel?
>
> :o)
>
>> I just want to note that you also can't survive very long if the sad
>> green salad and a glass of water costs 100 USD unless you are very
>> rich. This is called an excessive cost of living and can be found in
>> any comparison of places to live.
>>
>> If one only had to pay rent/mortgage, it would be one thing. But
>> people have to eat. And pay for utilities. And pay taxes. And get from
>> one place to another. And occasionally have some fun.
>
> Blah, blah, blah...
> Zzzzzzzzz.
>
>> But you won't find me dissing your capital just because I don't like
>> you. You should try it some time.
>
> Sorry but you have lost the Accordion on this one Dave.
> Don't worry you remain my prefered waiter-speaker-reviewer.
> I kiss you on the nose. :-)

[Clyde Slick]

"Lionel" > wrote in message
...

> I kiss you on the nose. :-)

Now Dave is really 'vexed'.

[dave weil]

On Fri, 07 Jan 2005 09:24:00 +0100, Lionel >
wrote:

>>>Dave Weil is a little bit dense, but it's normal he lives in a country
>>>where the bass are travelling slower than the trebble.
>>>The most important with Dave is to give him simple examples that he can
>>>understand easily :
>>>Dave you want to spend between 125 and 130 USD in a restaurant you have
>>>the choice between 2. the first one offer you a light but equilibrated
>>>on with cheese *and* dessert and cost you USD 130.00. The second is less
>>>expensive (USD 125,00) but offer you a sad green salad without
>>>vinegrette and a glass of water.
>>>The second restaurant cannot offer more to the customer because the boss
>>>is paying a very high rent to his landlord.
>>>In the statistics the cost of the second is less expensive Dave but you
>>>cannot survive a long time with a sad green salad and a glass of water.
>>>
>>>This is named the structure of the consommation and can be find in any
>>>economical school book for teenagers.
>>>
>>>Still vexed ?
>>
>>
>> I'm not the vexed one who told someone to **** off, now am I Lionel?
>
>:o)
>
>> I just want to note that you also can't survive very long if the sad
>> green salad and a glass of water costs 100 USD unless you are very
>> rich. This is called an excessive cost of living and can be found in
>> any comparison of places to live.
>>
>> If one only had to pay rent/mortgage, it would be one thing. But
>> people have to eat. And pay for utilities. And pay taxes. And get from
>> one place to another. And occasionally have some fun.
>
>Blah, blah, blah...
>Zzzzzzzzz.

Oooops, looks like Lionel's got no snappy comback after his analogy
was trumped.

[dave weil]

On Fri, 07 Jan 2005 12:11:27 +0100, Lionel >
wrote:

>dave weil a écrit :
>
>> But you won't find me dissing your capital just because I don't like
>> you. You should try it some time.
>
>Ooops, I appreciate Paul Dormer very much he is one of the only one real
>democrat of this NG (I suspect that he has the money to assume correctly
>this luxe).
>Anyway, it's not my fault if he has herited of the English syndrome and
>that he don't like French people. ;-)
>
>Just for your info :
>
>http://www.finfacts.ie/costofliving.htm
>
>2004 statisitcs :
>
>"The survey covers 144 cities and measures the comparative cost of over
>200 items in each location. These include housing, food, clothing and
>household goods as well as transportation and entertainment."
>
>"Tokyo and London are world’s most expensive cities; Asuncion in
>Paraguay is cheapest"
>
>London is at the second place with an indice of 119
>Paris is at the 17th place with an indice of 94.8 (just behind Shanghai)
>
>This is the second Accordion that you are losing today... :-)

Like I said, one can find something on the net to support any
viewpoint.

The US Government will give $1196 per month COLA (cost of living
adjustment) to an E-1 living in Paris (the lowest rank of private in
the Army, since we know how concerned you are with the "working man's"
ability to get by in an urban environment). If that same private is
posted in Central London (the most expensive area), he only gets $875.

This itself shows you how much it costs just to pay rent and feed
oneself in Paris vis a vis London.

I can show a different calculator that shows that London is *more*
expensive. The point is, both capital cities are expensive to live in
and pitting the two against each other is sort of silly.

I personally wouldn't want to live in either place, but that's just
me. Nashville is a pretty good size for me, plus my house only cost me
$49,900 and I've got a quarter acre to boot. The added plus is that I
only live about 4 miles from downtown.

[Sander deWaal]

"Schizoid Man" > said:

>That's because the 17.5% VAT (sales tax to the Yanks) that we pay in England
>is still less (if you can believe that) than the whopping 19.someodd% that
>the French pay.

19 1/2 percent here in Holland.

>Plus a coffee and bagel will set you back by about 10 euros in one of the
>'starving artist' cafes in Montmarte.

That's not an unusual price in Amsterdam as well.

--
Sander de Waal
" SOA of a KT88? Sufficient. "

[Lionel]

dave weil a écrit :

I said that you have lost the accordion. No need to insist anymore. :-)

[Lionel]

dave weil a écrit :

> Oooops, looks like Lionel's got no snappy comback after his analogy
> was trumped.

LOL ! :o)

[Lionel]

Clyde Slick a écrit :
> "Lionel" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>
>>I kiss you on the nose. :-)
>
>
> Now Dave is really 'vexed'.

Don't be jealous, old pederast.

[Schizoid Man]

"Sander deWaal" > wrote in message
> "Schizoid Man" > said:
>
>>That's because the 17.5% VAT (sales tax to the Yanks) that we pay in
>>England
>>is still less (if you can believe that) than the whopping 19.someodd% that
>>the French pay.
>
> 19 1/2 percent here in Holland.
>
>>Plus a coffee and bagel will set you back by about 10 euros in one of the
>>'starving artist' cafes in Montmarte.
>
> That's not an unusual price in Amsterdam as well.

Yes, true. So apart from the rent, London is cheaper than continental
capitals for everyday stuff like food, drink and entertainment. Probably
even shopping. Though with the way the dollar's going, it's probably cheaper
to shop the American websites and pay for the shipping back to Europe. Then
again, you just hop onto that New York shuttle.

[Schizoid Man]

"George M. Middius" > wrote in message

> Paul Dormer said:
>
>> >>Plus a coffee and bagel will set you back by about 10 euros in one of
>> >>the
>> >>'starving artist' cafes in Montmarte.
>> >
>> >That's not an unusual price in Amsterdam as well.
>>
>> 10 euro is about £7.
>>
>> Not an unusual price in Manchester either.
>
> In Manchester, I'll bet £7 gets you three bagels, two coffees, and half a
> nickel bag, plus a wet kiss from the waitron.

For £7 she'll surely plant the kiss elsewhere.

[Goofball_star_dot_etal]

On Thu, 06 Jan 2005 23:21:13 +0000, Paul Dormer >
wrote:

>"Goofball_star_dot_etal" emitted :
>
>>>Good for you, David. I took a picture on that beach summer 2003.
>>>http://home.clara.net/media/DSCN2236.JPG
>>>
>>Hmmm. Looks like the "nudist" beach.
>
>I take what I can get.
>
Watch out for the giant robins. You know how they like worms.


>>Heck, you should have said. I know people with boats!
>>http://www.wareing.dircon.co.uk/images/partial.jpg
>
>Me too!
>http://home.clara.net/media/DSCN2220.JPG
>
Heck, who would have thunk that the Mersey would scrub up so welll! I
give up. Where?

>>You could have puked on some dolphins.
>>http://www.wareing.dircon.co.uk/images/dolphins.jpg
>>Next time, perhaps.
>
>Dolphins are gay.

Not in Wales, boyo.
Two of the four are under age, you will note. Paedophiles, most
likely.

>http://home.clara.net/media/DSCN2310.JPG
>
>>>Very exciting place!!
>>. . .At least there are enough pubs.
>
>Sure, pubs full of chav's and elderly bearded men, and women, who
>smell of vinegar... How many pubs do you *need* anyway?
>
We have chapels too but are going to turn them all into pubs.

>Here in Cheshire the [by your estimation] limited number of pubs are
>accompanied by numerous bars, nightclubs, cinemas, sports complex',
>and even strip joints. It's like the 21st century, or summat.
>
Zzzzzzz. We have had our own set of traffic lights for ten years now.

>[Contain your jealousy!]

F** o** to Blackpool.

[Lionel]

Lionel a écrit :
> dave weil a écrit :
>
>> Oooops, looks like Lionel's got no snappy comback after his analogy
>> was trumped.
>
>
> LOL ! :o)

Dave, Paul, George ????
lol !!!!!!!

[Lionel]

Paul Dormer a écrit :
> "dave weil" emitted :
>
>
>>>>But you won't find me dissing your capital just because I don't like
>>>>you. You should try it some time.
>>>
>>>Ooops, I appreciate Paul Dormer very much he is one of the only one real
>>>democrat of this NG (I suspect that he has the money to assume correctly
>>>this luxe).
>>>Anyway, it's not my fault if he has herited of the English syndrome and
>>>that he don't like French people. ;-)
>>>
>>>Just for your info :
>>>
>>>http://www.finfacts.ie/costofliving.htm
>>>
>>>2004 statisitcs :
>>>
>>>"The survey covers 144 cities and measures the comparative cost of over
>>>200 items in each location. These include housing, food, clothing and
>>>household goods as well as transportation and entertainment."
>>>
>>>"Tokyo and London are world’s most expensive cities; Asuncion in
>>>Paraguay is cheapest"
>>>
>>>London is at the second place with an indice of 119
>>>Paris is at the 17th place with an indice of 94.8 (just behind Shanghai)
>>>
>>>This is the second Accordion that you are losing today... :-)
>>
>>Like I said, one can find something on the net to support any
>>viewpoint.
>>
>>The US Government will give $1196 per month COLA (cost of living
>>adjustment) to an E-1 living in Paris (the lowest rank of private in
>>the Army, since we know how concerned you are with the "working man's"
>>ability to get by in an urban environment). If that same private is
>>posted in Central London (the most expensive area), he only gets $8
>>This itself shows you how much it costs just to pay rent and feed
>>oneself in Paris vis a vis London.
>>
>>I can show a different calculator that shows that London is *more*
>>expensive. The point is, both capital cities are expensive to live in
>>and pitting the two against each other is sort of silly.
>>
>>I personally wouldn't want to live in either place, but that's just
>>me. Nashville is a pretty good size for me, plus my house only cost me
>>$49,900 and I've got a quarter acre to boot. The added plus is that I
>>only live about 4 miles from downtown.
>
>
> Lionel is trolling. He's branching off at every opp when cornered..
> The thing he said originally was that people in London were struggling
> to "survive" because of the cost of land, and Schizo- helpfully chimed
> in to back him up by bruxating over his windfall... ;-)

You are the Gagman, Paul, don't worry!...





>
>
> S i g n a l @ l i n e o n e . n e t
> -----------------------------------
> It's Grim down south..

[Lionel]

Paul Dormer a écrit :
> "Lionel" emitted :
>
>
>>>"Lionel" emitted :
>>
>>>[*I note you are more concerned about they who have the tenacity to
>>>move out of poverty rather than they who suffer at the hands of it..]
>>
>>I note that you are a vexed and that it's very funny. ;-)
>
>
> Don't get too excited.. it's a pretense ;-)
>

I just want to prevent Dave's premature ejaculation... ;-)



> .
> S i g n a l @ l i n e o n e . n e t
> -----------------------------------
> It's Grim down south..

[Goofball_star_dot_etal]

On Fri, 07 Jan 2005 21:09:04 +0000, Paul Dormer >
wrote:

>"Goofball_star_dot_etal" emitted :

>>F** o** to Blackpool.
>
>I'm going there tomorrow. It's a lovely place..... for a fight.
>
Spooky ! You better pray that I don't start sticking pins in dolls.

[Lionel]

Paul Dormer a écrit :
> "Lionel" emitted :
>
>
>>>>Oooops, looks like Lionel's got no snappy comback after his analogy
>>>>was trumped.
>>>
>>>
>>>LOL ! :o)
>>
>>Dave, Paul, George ????
>>lol !!!!!!!
>
>
> Ringo?


;-)


>
>
> S i g n a l @ l i n e o n e . n e t
> -----------------------------------
> It's Grim down south..

[Lionel]

Paul Dormer a écrit :
> "Lionel" emitted :
>
>
>>>Lionel is trolling. He's branching off at every opp when cornered..
>>>The thing he said originally was that people in London were struggling
>>>to "survive" because of the cost of land, and Schizo- helpfully chimed
>>>in to back him up by bruxating over his windfall... ;-)
>>
>>You are the Gagman, Paul, don't worry!...
>
>
> Don't worry I won't worry, Gasbagman... ;-)
>

I'm working under your feet, in the sewers ;-)
.... Ask this, Sacman, this old queer if you want to be sure :-)


>
> S i g n a l @ l i n e o n e . n e t
> -----------------------------------
> It's Grim down south..

[Schizoid Man]

"Paul Dormer" > wrote in message

> "Schizoid Man" emitted :
>
>>>> >>Plus a coffee and bagel will set you back by about 10 euros in one of
>>>> >>the
>>>> >>'starving artist' cafes in Montmarte.
>>>> >
>>>> >That's not an unusual price in Amsterdam as well.
>>>>
>>>> 10 euro is about £7.
>>>>
>>>> Not an unusual price in Manchester either.
>>>
>>> In Manchester, I'll bet £7 gets you three bagels, two coffees, and half
>>> a
>>> nickel bag, plus a wet kiss from the waitron.
>>
>>For £7 she'll surely plant the kiss elsewhere.
>
> Blow jobs start at a tenner...

That is expensive. I'm sure they'd come cheaper than that in Soho.

[Schizoid Man]

"Paul Dormer" > wrote in message

> Lionel is trolling. He's branching off at every opp when cornered..
> The thing he said originally was that people in London were struggling
> to "survive" because of the cost of land, and Schizo- helpfully chimed
> in to back him up by bruxating over his windfall... ;-)

Just following McKelvy's lead! ;-)

[Schizoid Man]

"Paul Dormer" > wrote in message

> "Lionel" emitted :
>
>>>> Oooops, looks like Lionel's got no snappy comback after his analogy
>>>> was trumped.
>>>
>>>
>>> LOL ! :o)
>>
>>Dave, Paul, George ????
>>lol !!!!!!!
>
> Ringo?

Dave Lennon?

[Lionel]

Schizoid Man a écrit :
> "Paul Dormer" > wrote in message
>
>
>>Lionel is trolling. He's branching off at every opp when cornered..
>>The thing he said originally was that people in London were struggling
>>to "survive" because of the cost of land, and Schizo- helpfully chimed
>>in to back him up by bruxating over his windfall... ;-)
>
>
> You are just following McKelvy's lead! ;-)

Right, what a shame for an English guy !!! :o)

[Sander deWaal]

George M. Middius > said:

>Paul Dormer said:

>> Blow jobs start at a tenner...

>I knew your real job wasn't in software.

He sells chromed wheel hubs that keep on turning.

"BLING" .

--
Sander de Waal
" SOA of a KT88? Sufficient. "

[Clyde Slick]

"Lionel" > wrote in message
...
> Clyde Slick a écrit :
>> "Lionel" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>
>>
>>>I kiss you on the nose. :-)
>>
>>
>> Now Dave is really 'vexed'.
>
> Don't be jealous, old pederast.

I slap you on the nose with a newspaper :-)

[Lionel]

Clyde Slick a écrit :
> "Lionel" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>>Clyde Slick a écrit :
>>
>>>"Lionel" > wrote in message
...
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>I kiss you on the nose. :-)
>>>
>>>
>>>Now Dave is really 'vexed'.
>>
>>Don't be jealous, old pederast.
>
>
> I slap you on the nose with a newspaper :-)
>
>

No more fantasies, old man, you are too short for that. :-)

[Lionel]

Schizoid Man a écrit :

> Plus a coffee and bagel will set you back by about 10 euros in one of the
> 'starving artist' cafes in Montmarte.

A typical trap for tourists... What are you doing in such place ? ;-)

[Lionel]

Paul Dormer a écrit :
> "dave weil" emitted :
>
>
>>>>The fact is that "London" is *abnormally* expensive and that the main
>>>>cause is the real estate speculation.
>>>>Obviously the phenomena touchs all European capitals but in this matter
>>>>London is a kind of caricature.
>>>
>>>It's almost as expensive, in general, where I live - and numerous
>>>other locales outside of London too. A moderately sized two bedroom
>>>warehouse conversion flat in inner city Manchester will routinely cost
>>>£0.5m upward, and be sold prior to completion. A *small* terrace in a
>>>busy prime rural location, £0.25m easy. You are confusing the
>>>craziness of the overall housing market for one specific area.
>>>
>>>
>>>S i g n a l @ l i n e o n e . n e t
>>>-----------------------------------
>>>It's Grim down south..
>>
>>http://www.finfacts.com/costofliving4.htm
>>
>>1 (1) Tokyo Japan 143
>>2 (2) Osaka Kobe Japan 137
>>3 (7) Paris France 130
>>3 (3) Oslo Norway 130
>>5 (6) Copenhagen Denmark 129
>>6 (4) Zurich Switzerland 125
>>6 (10) London UK 125
>>
>>Anyone can find anything on the 'net to support a point of view.
>
>
> Paris more expensive than London.. FU Lionel woohoo!! :-)
>
> [Where the heck is Monaco? ;-)]


*Never trust* Dave Weil. He's an envious depressive looser. Moreover I'm
afraid that he has major difficulties to understand what he reads. :-)

http://www.finfacts.com/costofliving.htm
"June 2004:Tokyo and London are world’s most expensive cities; Asuncion
in Paraguay is cheapest"

Europe :

London is the most expensive city in Europe, with a score of 119. High
accommodation and transport costs together with the appreciation of the
pound against the US dollar have pushed the city up in the rankings.
However, Mrs Sepede said: “The scores are based on the cost of living
for expatriates, who are more likely to stay in Central London where
accommodation is most expensive.” Glasgow and Birmingham rank lower in
the UK at positions 41 and 51 respectively (scores 84.1 and 82.8).

After London, Geneva is the next most expensive city in Europe ranked in
6th position (106.2) followed by Copenhagen in 8th place (102.2). Other
high scoring cities include Zurich ranked 9th (101.6), Milan ranked 13th
(98.7), Dublin in 14th place (96.9), Oslo in 15th place (96.2) and Paris
in 17th position (94.8). Mrs Sepede commented: “Since the Euro was
introduced in 2002, many European cities have moved up in the rankings.”

FU Paulo woohoo!! :-)

[dave weil]

On Fri, 07 Jan 2005 21:52:46 +0100, Lionel >
wrote:

>Lionel a écrit :
>> dave weil a écrit :
>>
>>> Oooops, looks like Lionel's got no snappy comback after his analogy
>>> was trumped.
>>
>>
>> LOL ! :o)
>
>Dave, Paul, George ????
>lol !!!!!!!

Ringo?

Do I win?

[dave weil]

On Fri, 07 Jan 2005 21:25:30 +0000, Paul Dormer >
wrote:

>"Lionel" emitted :
>
>>>> Oooops, looks like Lionel's got no snappy comback after his analogy
>>>> was trumped.
>>>
>>>
>>> LOL ! :o)
>>
>>Dave, Paul, George ????
>>lol !!!!!!!
>
>Ringo?

Damn, beaten to the punch.

I lose.

Again.

[Ruud Broens]

"Paul Dormer" > wrote in message
...
: "Sander deWaal" emitted :
:
: >>> Blow jobs start at a tenner...
: >
: >>I knew your real job wasn't in software.
: >
: >He sells chromed wheel hubs that keep on turning.
: >
: >"BLING" .
:
: Keep your eyes peeled.. video footage of myself doing "crazy stunts"
: in my pimp-mobile coming soon...!
:
:
: S i g n a l @ l i n e o n e . n e t
: -----------------------------------
: It's Grim down south..

we're always on the lookout for some brit humour, is that a promise, PD ?
Rudy

[dave weil]

On Sat, 08 Jan 2005 15:36:07 +0100, Lionel >
wrote:

>*Never trust* Dave Weil. He's an envious depressive looser. Moreover I'm
>afraid that he has major difficulties to understand what he reads. :-)
>
>http://www.finfacts.com/costofliving.htm
>"June 2004:Tokyo and London are world’s most expensive cities; Asuncion
>in Paraguay is cheapest"
>
>Europe :

>However, Mrs Sepede said: “The scores are based on the cost of living
>for expatriates, who are more likely to stay in Central London where
>accommodation is most expensive.”

'nuff said.

If you are a foreigner living in the most expensive part of London, it
*is* the most expensive city in Europe.

I'll bet that Paris is the most expensive city in Europe for people
who only eat McDonald's Le Big Macs.

[Sander deWaal]

George M. Middius > said:

>Self-mockery can have serious consequences, up to and including suicidal
>depression.

Never had any problems in that direction, I value life too much.
I'm my own worst critic :-)

--
Sander de Waal
" SOA of a KT88? Sufficient. "

[Lionel]

dave weil a écrit :

> 'nuff said.

Yes you are a joke. :o)

[Lionel]

Sander deWaal a écrit :
> George M. Middius > said:
>
>
>>Self-mockery can have serious consequences, up to and including suicidal
>>depression.
>
>
> Never had any problems in that direction, I value life too much.
> I'm my own worst critic :-)

Considering the degree of narcissism that Middius shows on theis NG, I'm
afraid that he will never be able to understand this concept. :-(

[Arny Krueger]

"Marc Phillips" > wrote in message

> Arny said:
>
>> I have a friend who basically designed and voiced every audio system
>> installed in the Jeep Liberty by Chrysler. About 100,000 Jeep
>> Libertys have been sold, so I guess its safe to say that about
>> 100,000 high way systems have been built based on his opinons in the
>> matter.
>
> You bought one of those pieces of ****, didn't you.

Fecal obsession noted.

[Bruce J. Richman]

Paul Dormer wrote:


>"Ruud Broens" emitted :
>
>>: >>> Blow jobs start at a tenner...
>>: >
>>: >>I knew your real job wasn't in software.
>>: >
>>: >He sells chromed wheel hubs that keep on turning.
>>: >
>>: >"BLING" .
>>:
>>: Keep your eyes peeled.. video footage of myself doing "crazy stunts"
>>: in my pimp-mobile coming soon...!
>>:
>>
>>we're always on the lookout for some brit humour, is that a promise, PD ?
>
>I will share my "hilarious" driving skills here if I can convert to a
>suitable format..
>
>There are plans afoot to videocord two high speed trips from the
>dashboard.. 1) the A57 "snakes pass", one of the best driving roads in
>the UK 2) the nearby A537 Macclesfield to Buxton. This is officially
>*the* most dangerous road in the UK, but it's also a totally awesome
>ride.. ;-)
>
>http://www.bbc.co.uk/england/roadsafety/index.shtml
>
>
>S i g n a l @ l i n e o n e . n e t
>-----------------------------------
>It's Grim down south..
>
>


There is a cable TV show in the US called (and I'm not making this up) "Pimp My

Ride". Basically, it involves taking a junk heap of a young driver and
remaking it both externally and internally. Needless tgo say, no expenxse is
spared. One episode I saw involved some really wild custom paint jobs, neon
lights under the body, a heavily chromed new engine, multiple DVD players,
screens and X-boxes, and a sound system that most of us would like to have. )




Bruce J. Richman

[Bruce J. Richman]

George M. Middius wrote:


>Paul Dormer said:
>
>> "Arny Krueger" admitted :
>
>> >Fecal obsession
>
>I believe Krooger meant ingestion, not obsession.
>
>

The 2 behaviors are not mutually exclusive. Krueger probably likes to
multi-task.



Bruce J. Richman

[Marc Phillips]

Arny said:

>"Marc Phillips" > wrote in message

>> Arny said:
>>
>>> I have a friend who basically designed and voiced every audio system
>>> installed in the Jeep Liberty by Chrysler. About 100,000 Jeep
>>> Libertys have been sold, so I guess its safe to say that about
>>> 100,000 high way systems have been built based on his opinons in the
>>> matter.
>>
>> You bought one of those pieces of ****, didn't you.
>
>Fecal obsession noted.

That's the second time you responded to this post. Don't tell me...you really
did buy a Jeep Liberty and now it's eating you up inside.

Boon

[Arny Krueger]

"Paul Dormer" > forged in message


> "Arny Krueger" admitted :
>
>> Fecal obsession

Yet another deceptively edited post by Paul Dormer.

Yawn.

[Arny Krueger]

"Marc Phillips" > wrote in message

> Arny said:
>
>> "Marc Phillips" > wrote in message
>>
>>> Arny said:
>>>
>>>> I have a friend who basically designed and voiced every audio
>>>> system installed in the Jeep Liberty by Chrysler. About 100,000
>>>> Jeep Libertys have been sold, so I guess its safe to say that about
>>>> 100,000 high way systems have been built based on his opinons in
>>>> the matter.
>>>
>>> You bought one of those pieces of ****, didn't you.
>>
>> Fecal obsession noted.

> That's the second time you responded to this post.

Its consummate stupidity attracted me, a second time.

[Marc Phillips]

Arny said:

>"Marc Phillips" > wrote in message

>> Arny said:
>>
>>> "Marc Phillips" > wrote in message
>>>
>>>> Arny said:
>>>>
>>>>> I have a friend who basically designed and voiced every audio
>>>>> system installed in the Jeep Liberty by Chrysler. About 100,000
>>>>> Jeep Libertys have been sold, so I guess its safe to say that about
>>>>> 100,000 high way systems have been built based on his opinons in
>>>>> the matter.
>>>>
>>>> You bought one of those pieces of ****, didn't you.
>>>
>>> Fecal obsession noted.
>
>> That's the second time you responded to this post.
>
>Its consummate stupidity attracted me, a second time.

Yeah, we all believe that. Do you hate yourself for buying the Liberty now?
What do you hate worse, the cramped interior space, the poor reliability, the
relatively high price compared to superior offerings from other companies, or
the dismal handling?

Boon

[Arny Krueger]

"Marc Phillips" > wrote in message

> Arny said:
>
>> "Marc Phillips" > wrote in message
>>
>>> Arny said:
>>>
>>>> "Marc Phillips" > wrote in message
>>>>
>>>>> Arny said:
>>>>>
>>>>>> I have a friend who basically designed and voiced every audio
>>>>>> system installed in the Jeep Liberty by Chrysler. About 100,000
>>>>>> Jeep Libertys have been sold, so I guess its safe to say that
>>>>>> about 100,000 high way systems have been built based on his
>>>>>> opinons in the matter.
>>>>>
>>>>> You bought one of those pieces of ****, didn't you.
>>>>
>>>> Fecal obsession noted.
>>
>>> That's the second time you responded to this post.
>>
>> Its consummate stupidity attracted me, a second time.
>
> Yeah, we all believe that. Do you hate yourself for buying the
> Liberty now?

You're delusional Phillips. I repeat, I don't own a Liberty, never did.

>What do you hate worse, the cramped interior space, the
> poor reliability, the relatively high price compared to superior
> offerings from other companies, or the dismal handling?

I have a close friend who has a Liberty. I've put close to a thousand miles
on it. It has proven to be almost as spacious as my minivan, has posed no
reliability problems, and handles curvey roads at high speeds remarkably
well for a SUV.

While I haven't had the opporunity to take my friend's Liberty down the
*magic* 12 miles of California 78 just east of Julian in San Diego County,
or up the road to Idyllwild in Riverside County, it did a great job of
significantly breaking the speed limits on the Pennsylvania Turnpike from
Pittsburgh to Harrisburg.

I suspect the fact that I'm not morbidly obese like are you are Phillips,
contributes to my appreciation for the Liberty's interior acommodations.
But, everytime I see a really grotesquely fat lady trying to get into one, I
think of you!

[Arny Krueger]

"George M. Middius" > wrote in message

> Marc Phillips said:
>
>> Yeah, we all believe that. Do you hate yourself for buying the
>> Liberty now? What do you hate worse, the cramped interior space, the
>> poor reliability, the relatively high price compared to superior
>> offerings from other companies, or the dismal handling?
>
> Maybe it has a built-in workbench so Arnii can "fix radar's in the
> snow".

As compared to what, Middius? We all know that you couldn't fix a proper cup
of coffee, snow or not.

[Clyde Slick]

"George M. Middius" > wrote in message
...
>
> Self-mockery can have serious consequences, up to and including suicidal
> depression.
>

Then there is hope for SFB.

[Clyde Slick]

"Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
...
> "Marc Phillips" > wrote in message
>
>> Arny said:
>>
>>> I have a friend who basically designed and voiced every audio system
>>> installed in the Jeep Liberty by Chrysler. About 100,000 Jeep
>>> Libertys have been sold, so I guess its safe to say that about
>>> 100,000 high way systems have been built based on his opinons in the
>>> matter.
>>
>> You bought one of those pieces of ****, didn't you.
>
> Fecal obsession noted.
>

[Clyde Slick]

"Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
...
> "Marc Phillips" > wrote in message
>
>> Arny said:
>>
>>> I have a friend who basically designed and voiced every audio system
>>> installed in the Jeep Liberty by Chrysler. About 100,000 Jeep
>>> Libertys have been sold, so I guess its safe to say that about
>>> 100,000 high way systems have been built based on his opinons in the
>>> matter.
>>
>> You bought one of those pieces of ****, didn't you.
>
> Fecal obsession noted.

It can't be anything else when we are talking about you.

[Clyde Slick]

"Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
...
> "Marc Phillips" > wrote in message
>
>> Arny said:
>>
>>> "Marc Phillips" > wrote in message
>>>
>>>> Arny said:
>>>>
>>>>> "Marc Phillips" > wrote in message
>>>>>
>>>>>> Arny said:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I have a friend who basically designed and voiced every audio
>>>>>>> system installed in the Jeep Liberty by Chrysler. About 100,000
>>>>>>> Jeep Libertys have been sold, so I guess its safe to say that
>>>>>>> about 100,000 high way systems have been built based on his
>>>>>>> opinons in the matter.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> You bought one of those pieces of ****, didn't you.
>>>>>
>>>>> Fecal obsession noted.
>>>
>>>> That's the second time you responded to this post.
>>>
>>> Its consummate stupidity attracted me, a second time.
>>
>> Yeah, we all believe that. Do you hate yourself for buying the
>> Liberty now?
>
> You're delusional Phillips. I repeat, I don't own a Liberty, never did.
>
>>What do you hate worse, the cramped interior space, the
>> poor reliability, the relatively high price compared to superior
>> offerings from other companies, or the dismal handling?
>
> I have a close friend who has a Liberty. I've put close to a thousand
> miles on it. It has proven to be almost as spacious as my minivan, has
> posed no reliability problems, and handles curvey roads at high speeds
> remarkably well for a SUV.
>
> While I haven't had the opporunity to take my friend's Liberty down the
> *magic* 12 miles of California 78 just east of Julian in San Diego County,
> or up the road to Idyllwild in Riverside County, it did a great job of
> significantly breaking the speed limits on the Pennsylvania Turnpike from
> Pittsburgh to Harrisburg.
>
> I suspect the fact that I'm not morbidly obese like are you are Phillips,
> contributes to my appreciation for the Liberty's interior acommodations.
> But, everytime I see a really grotesquely fat lady trying to get into one,
> I think of you!
>
>
>
>

[Clyde Slick]

"Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
...
>

> But, everytime I see a really grotesquely fat lady trying to get into one,
> I think of you!
>
No use getting the Kroobitch all jealous.