Recommendation for headphones?

[[email protected]]

Any recommendations for good headphones for listening to a stationary
stereo of good quality?

I've pretty much come to the conclusion that I don't like Sennheiser
headphones. I tried several different, most recently Sennheiser HD 515,
and they've all had the same sound: good mid register, very little
bass, and virtually no treble. To get a sound at least approaching what
I get from my Mirsch speakers straight from the CD, I had to add +6 dB
of bass and treble. The frequency response curve of these headphones
must look like a bell curve.

It seems obvious these headphones are made for listening to opera, or
for people who are OK with having loudness permanently engaged.

They also weren't very comfortable - they pressed hard. They're not
supposed to, but they did.

So - any suggestions for good headphones for listening to a stationary
stereo, with good bass and treble, and which are NOT made by
Sennheiser?

Also, if someone could point me to some serious audio site with
reviews, that would be welcome.

[[email protected]]

Stax?

[Mitchell Kaufman]

> wrote:

> It seems obvious these headphones are made for listening to opera, or
> for people who are OK with having loudness permanently engaged.

Just curious: what makes you think that people who listen to opera don't
like hearing treble through their headphones?

MK

[Mitchell Kaufman]

> wrote:

> Stax?

Agreed. And I agree with the OP as well. To my ears, Stax were the only
'phones I auditioned that actually produced an acceptable amount of high
frequency information--or at least in the way I like to hear it
produced: sweet, delicate, and detailed.

For this reason Sennheiser, AKG, and Grado didn't do much for me. Among
the dynamics, the ones I'm least dissatisfied with are certain of the
Beyer models (don't remember which ones, but I used to own 330's--no
longer made--that I liked very much).

MK

[jeffc]

> wrote in message
oups.com...
>
> So - any suggestions for good headphones for listening to a stationary
> stereo, with good bass and treble, and which are NOT made by
> Sennheiser?

Well the Sennheiser 580 and 600 certainly don't sound like that.

[jeffc]

"Mitchell Kaufman" > wrote in message
init...
> > wrote:
>
> > It seems obvious these headphones are made for listening to opera, or
> > for people who are OK with having loudness permanently engaged.
>
> Just curious: what makes you think that people who listen to opera don't
> like hearing treble through their headphones?

Probably for the same reason he thinks all Sennheisers are bad because he
didn't like one particular pair.

[Mean_Chlorine]

Thusly (Mitchell Kaufman) Spake Unto All:

> wrote:
>
>> It seems obvious these headphones are made for listening to opera, or
>> for people who are OK with having loudness permanently engaged.
>
>Just curious: what makes you think that people who listen to opera don't
>like hearing treble through their headphones?

Oh, I don't think opera listeners have anything against treble, it's
just that there's very little of it in opera.

>MK

[Mean_Chlorine]

Thusly "jeffc" > Spake Unto All:

>> Just curious: what makes you think that people who listen to opera don't
>> like hearing treble through their headphones?
>
>Probably for the same reason he thinks all Sennheisers are bad because he
>didn't like one particular pair.

It is the third pair, of three different models, although admittedly
all in the $80 - $150 bracket, I try this round, and I've tried others
before.
My conclusion is that I simply don't like the way Sennheisers sound.
To my ears they have weak bass and almost completely lack treble. I'm
happy you like yours, but I'm looking for recommendations for other
brands with other characteristics.

[Mean_Chlorine]

Thusly Paul Dormer > Spake Unto All:

" emitted :
>
>>Stax?
>
>AKG, Sony, Grado, Beyer Dynamic, Etymotic, Shure, Koss, Amphony, Anne
>Summers.

Sennheisers are *everywhere* and at least Sony and Koss should be
possible to find, but the others will likely be difficult to find
here.

From searching this group I find a lot of talk about Sony MDR 7506,
and from other sources also Sony MDR-CD580. I'll see if I can get hold
of one of those and test. And I'll keep an eye out for Stax.

[[email protected]]

>>>Oh, I don't think opera listeners have anything against treble, it's
just that there's very little of it in opera.<<<
You're kidding, right?

Bill

[[email protected]]

Mitch, have you tried the Sennheiser HD-600's? Their middle of the
line headphones aren't nearly as good, and have, to my ears, a very
different (and inferior) sound. I remember auditioning the HD-600
against some Stax electrostatics (although it was probably 15 years
ago), and didn't think that the difference was worth the considerable
cost difference.

BTW, using a headphone amp makes a huge difference with the HD600's - I
use the Creek.

Bill

[Jeff E]

wrote:
> Any recommendations for good headphones for listening to a stationary
> stereo of good quality?
>

There are lots of variables to consider in addition to the headphones
themselves: the type of music, your taste in sound, your budget, the
quality of the headphone amplification as well as its interaction with
particular headphones. I have/had Sennheiser HD580, HD650 and HD595.
The 595s have a more prominent treble. IMO these exhibit a
characteristic Sennheiser sound signature with a mid bass hump. They
all benefit from a good match with a headphone amplifier.

A quick answer would be to audition the Grado SR60: ~$70, very
different sound than the Senns, and less amplifier dependent. Downside:
comfort (for some) and lack of soundstage.

> Also, if someone could point me to some serious audio site with
> reviews, that would be welcome.

Try head-fi.org.

[Alex Rodriguez]

In article . com>,
says...
>
>
>Any recommendations for good headphones for listening to a stationary
>stereo of good quality?
>
>I've pretty much come to the conclusion that I don't like Sennheiser
>headphones. I tried several different, most recently Sennheiser HD 515,
>and they've all had the same sound: good mid register, very little
>bass, and virtually no treble. To get a sound at least approaching what
>I get from my Mirsch speakers straight from the CD, I had to add +6 dB
>of bass and treble. The frequency response curve of these headphones
>must look like a bell curve.
>
>It seems obvious these headphones are made for listening to opera, or
>for people who are OK with having loudness permanently engaged.
>
>They also weren't very comfortable - they pressed hard. They're not
>supposed to, but they did.
>
>So - any suggestions for good headphones for listening to a stationary
>stereo, with good bass and treble, and which are NOT made by
>Sennheiser?
>
>Also, if someone could point me to some serious audio site with
>reviews, that would be welcome.

You may want to listen to Grado SR80's. I've been mostly happy with mine.
The only bad thing I can say is that they get uncomfortable when you wear
them for long periods of time, over two hours. Take a listen and then
decide if you like them.
-----------
Alex

[Mitchell Kaufman]

> wrote:

> Mitch, have you tried the Sennheiser HD-600's? Their middle of the
> line headphones aren't nearly as good, and have, to my ears, a very
> different (and inferior) sound. I remember auditioning the HD-600
> against some Stax electrostatics (although it was probably 15 years
> ago), and didn't think that the difference was worth the considerable
> cost difference.
>
> BTW, using a headphone amp makes a huge difference with the HD600's - I
> use the Creek.

Yes, I've tried the 600's, Bill. I acknowledge that they're very fine
'phones, no doubt the best dynamic 'phones I've heard (though I still
have a soft spot for those Beyers, and for the incredibly uncomfortable
Koss Pro 4AA's); but they're just not my cup of tea. I found them a
little "romantic" on top for my taste. In headphones, I prefer something
with a bit more high frequency energy.

I also don't think the current Stax sound anything like the Sennheisers,
though I do agree the headphone amp used makes a difference (as does the
energizer unit used with the Stax: particularly tubed vs. solid state,
which do sound different in the stereotypical tube vs. solid state
ways).

MK

[Joakim Wendel]

In article >,
Paul Dormer > wrote:

> "Mean_Chlorine" emitted :
>
> >>>Stax?
> >>
> >>AKG, Sony, Grado, Beyer Dynamic, Etymotic, Shure, Koss, Amphony, Anne
> >>Summers.
> >
> >Sennheisers are *everywhere*
>
> The HD580/600/650 are a bit too tame for my liking. The 590's have
> more bite. Beyer 990's **** on Sennheisers, that's my opinion.
>
> >and at least Sony and Koss should be
> >possible to find, but the others will likely be difficult to find
> >here.
>
> Maybe. I've no idea where "here" is.
>
> >From searching this group I find a lot of talk about Sony MDR 7506,
> >and from other sources also Sony MDR-CD580. I'll see if I can get hold
> >of one of those and test. And I'll keep an eye out for Stax.
>
> Never liked Sony's myself, particularly the closed variety. Tiresome,
> screechy bloody things. Mine were nicked out of the boot of my car I
> was glad to see the back of them.
>
> S i g n a l @ l i n e o n e . n e t
> -----------------------------------
> It's Grim up north..

I dare to say you haven't heard exactly how good the headphones are
until matched with a good headphone amp AND cables. The reason for my
statement is that i bought a Cardas Cable, a Musical Fidelity X-Can v.3
(with X-Psu v.3) for my Senn's HD600 and it sounds great, warmer but not
(as i can judge) because of lack of treble.

I'm happy with the Sennheisers, with the stock cord and no amp i wasn't.

--
Joakim Wendel
Remove obvious mail JUNK block for mail reply.

My homepage : http://violinist.nu

[Mean_Chlorine]

Thusly "Jeff E" > Spake Unto All:

>> Any recommendations for good headphones for listening to a stationary
>> stereo of good quality?

>A quick answer would be to audition the Grado SR60

Cheers. On the list they go.

The short list as it stands:

Sony MDR-7506
Sony MDR-CD580
Stax <any model>
Grado SR60
Grado SR80

None of these are available at the big chains around here, but I'll
call some audiophile friends tomorrow and see if they can point me to
some enthusiast shops.

>> Also, if someone could point me to some serious audio site with
>> reviews, that would be welcome.
>
>Try head-fi.org.

Thank you. Will do.

[Mean_Chlorine]

Thusly Alex Rodriguez > Spake Unto All:

>You may want to listen to Grado SR80's.

Cheers. On the list they go.

Today I visited half a dozen stereo/electronics shops in a ten-mile
radius around here, and it was actually worse than I'd thought: there
were three brands available (Philips, Sennheiser, and Sony). All the
Sonys were low-end models intended for walkman type mobile stereos,
but there were a big spread in the Philips models.

The highest-end Philips I found were the HP-1000 and HP-890. They were
quite pricy, are they any good?

(I rembember a Philips HP 800 I tried years ago, and as I recall it
was horribly uncomfortable, with what can only be described as a
'vice-like grip', and had painful, tinny, *screeching*, treble.)

[jeffc]

"Mean_Chlorine" > wrote in message
...
>
> It is the third pair, of three different models, although admittedly
> all in the $80 - $150 bracket, I try this round, and I've tried others
> before.
> My conclusion is that I simply don't like the way Sennheisers sound.
> To my ears they have weak bass and almost completely lack treble. I'm
> happy you like yours, but I'm looking for recommendations for other
> brands with other characteristics.

Like I said, if you think the 580/600 are completely lacking in treble, then
you have hearing loss or wax buildup the size of grapes in your ears. If
you want thumpy bass, get Grado or some BassBoost Sony setup.

[Mean_Chlorine]

After reading head-fi.org and some pestering of audiophile friends,
I've found an enthusiast shop not too far from where I live, with the
following headphones in the $100 - $200 bracket:

Sony MDR-CD580
Sony MDR-V6
Koss Pro 4aa Titanium (the only non-portable Koss I could find)
Grado SR60
Grado SR80
Beyerdynamic DT931

Most of my listening is stationary, to melodic/experimental rock
(Within Temptation, Dargaard, Arcana, Stoa, Lacuna Coil...) with some
hard rock (In Flames, Rammstein, Evergrey, Monster Magnet, Rob
Zombie...) and electronica (Delerium, anything from Ministry of
Sound...) for good measure.

I have an old but decent amp (Marantz FM-80), and I tend to feel that
Sennheiser headphones in this price-range have weak bass and even
weaker treble.

I'm not sure I will have opportunity to trying out the headphones
before buying, so - which ones of the above would I be most likely to
like?
From what I've read here and at head-fi.org, I'm thinking the Grados
might be a good bet?

[Joakim Wendel]

In article >,
Paul Dormer > wrote:

> "Joakim Wendel" emitted :
<SNIP>
> >> >Sennheisers are *everywhere*
> >>
> >> The HD580/600/650 are a bit too tame for my liking. The 590's have
> >> more bite. Beyer 990's **** on Sennheisers, that's my opinion.
> >>
<SNIP>
> >
> >I dare to say you haven't heard exactly how good the headphones are
>
> How dare you!
>
> >until matched with a good headphone amp AND cables. The reason for my
> >statement is that i bought a Cardas Cable, a Musical Fidelity X-Can v.3
> >(with X-Psu v.3) for my Senn's HD600 and it sounds great, warmer but not
> >(as i can judge) because of lack of treble.
> >
> >I'm happy with the Sennheisers, with the stock cord and no amp i wasn't.
>
> The Sennheisers are great headphones, just a little bit rosey tinted,
> a little bit.. big fluffy pillow... :)
>
>
> S i g n a l @ l i n e o n e . n e t
> -----------------------------------
> It's Grim up north..

Exactly hehee, Big Fluffy Pillow indeed on the spot!!!
Maybe not want you want for all that distorted and compressed music the
OP listens to...
But My Music, The Big Fluffy Pillow Sound and Me are happy
--
Joakim Wendel
Remove obvious mail JUNK block for mail reply.

My homepage : http://violinist.nu

[jeffc]

"Mean_Chlorine" > wrote in message
...
>
> I have an old but decent amp (Marantz FM-80), and I tend to feel that
> Sennheiser headphones in this price-range have weak bass and even
> weaker treble.

The other possibility is that you've just grown accustomed to listening to
music with a big bass hump in it.

[Mean_Chlorine]

Thusly "jeffc" > Spake Unto All:

>> I have an old but decent amp (Marantz FM-80), and I tend to feel that
>> Sennheiser headphones in this price-range have weak bass and even
>> weaker treble.
>
>The other possibility is that you've just grown accustomed to listening to
>music with a big bass hump in it.

Yeah, it's possible that the recordings were intended to have weaker
bass and still weaker treble than my old headphones and speakers
produce, and the Sennheisers merely faithfully reproduce the
recording. That, basically my speakers and old headphones had
permanent loudness in-built.

I've no way of testing that theory.

[Arny Krueger]

Mean_Chlorine wrote:

> Sennheisers are *everywhere* and at least Sony and Koss should be
> possible to find, but the others will likely be difficult to find
> here.

Etymotic and Shure are earphones or in-ear-monitors (IEMs), not
strictly speaking headphones. Nevertheless they are viable options.
Other worthwhile IEMs include those from Sony, Futuresonics and Koss.

> From searching this group I find a lot of talk about Sony MDR 7506,

I have a pair that I use for critical listening and mixdowns.

> and from other sources also Sony MDR-CD580. I'll see if I can get
hold
> of one of those and test.

>And I'll keep an eye out for Stax.

They cost a lot of money - but people who have free acess to both say
they prefer the higher-end offerings from Sennheiser, the 580, 600 and
etc.

I picked up a pair of 580s that I use for long-term listening and
listening for pleasure.

Since I often listen to .wav files from my portable digital player, I
spend about as much time listening to Futuresonics IEMs as anything.

My Sony MDR71s are currently plugged into my FlashRAM based MP3 player.
I mostly use it on airplane flights, and the like, when the portable
hard-drive player/recorder would be awkward.

[jeffc]

"Mean_Chlorine" > wrote in message
...
> >
> >The other possibility is that you've just grown accustomed to listening
to
> >music with a big bass hump in it.
>
> Yeah, it's possible that the recordings were intended to have weaker
> bass and still weaker treble than my old headphones and speakers
> produce, and the Sennheisers merely faithfully reproduce the
> recording. That, basically my speakers and old headphones had
> permanent loudness in-built.
>
> I've no way of testing that theory.

The best way, to quote the almost-cliche from the audiophile magazines, is
to listen to live acoustic music, and compare to recordings. For studio
produced rock music, it's tough. But if you ever get a chance, listen to
someone playing drums live. Like go to a music (instrument) store and ask
if there's a time you can hear someone playing drums. Then compare that to,
say, the Sheffield Drum Track CD. Or just listen to some acoustic jazz
sometime, and pay attention to the cymbals and bass. One thing that
Sennheisers (at least 580/600) have is deep bass extension, which is not to
say they sound bloated or exaggerated. Some headphones that have a peak
around 60 or 80 Hz might sound better for rock, but in fact they trail off
quick below that. Others are flat all the way down to below 30 (this is a
lot easier with headphones than it is for full size speakers.) Organ music
also shows this off. On the other hand, there's no peak in the treble, yet
the treble is very extended (goes flat well past 15,000 Hz without peaking
near 8,000)