Led Zeppelin DVD revisited

[Iowa Recorder]

I know this has already been discussed but I finally went out and got
the DVD and just have to shout from the roof tops how great it is!

I was on the road for a long time with a monsterously talented
keyboardist. He was into so many differant styles of music and had
quite a critical ear. He had also been to hundreds of concerts. I
asked him one time. What was the best show you've seen. He said;
"Led Zeppelin in 1970". I was puzzled by this as I had seen "The Song
Remains the Same" and I couldn't relate to how my friend had been so
profoundly impressed. Well this DVD answers all that.

The DVD is literally riveting.

First off the sound is great. Most of it is very well recorded. The
band plays with dynamics I haven't heard in a live recording... from
monster loud to literally whispering.... Along with the close camera
work it sounds and looks like your right on stage with them. Very
intimate.

The DVD also showed me something I wasn't aware of - John Paul Jones
is an amasing bass player.

Regards
IR

[DaveDrummer]

If god had ever said 'Let there be a band!' in the bible, Led Zeppelin would
appear.

One of, if not THE best bands out there. This is why the DVD and HTWWW were
on the top of the charts last year. Still pretty high. Amazing for a band
that's had its prime over 20 years ago, and is still recognized as an
amazing group.

The sound on the DVD is excellent especially on a 5.1 system with a good
subwoofer. I especially like the drums. John Bonham, moby dick, man the
whole place just shook. Of course, you could record a band like Led Zeppelin
with a .15ISP childs tape recorder and itll still sound awesome!

Also the guitar and bass come in very well. The intro to 'since i've been
loving you' gives me chills everytime I watch and hear that. It is MY
favorite DVD out of over 120 I have :-).

Dave

"Iowa Recorder" > wrote in message
om...
> I know this has already been discussed but I finally went out and got
> the DVD and just have to shout from the roof tops how great it is!
>
> I was on the road for a long time with a monsterously talented
> keyboardist. He was into so many differant styles of music and had
> quite a critical ear. He had also been to hundreds of concerts. I
> asked him one time. What was the best show you've seen. He said;
> "Led Zeppelin in 1970". I was puzzled by this as I had seen "The Song
> Remains the Same" and I couldn't relate to how my friend had been so
> profoundly impressed. Well this DVD answers all that.
>
> The DVD is literally riveting.
>
> First off the sound is great. Most of it is very well recorded. The
> band plays with dynamics I haven't heard in a live recording... from
> monster loud to literally whispering.... Along with the close camera
> work it sounds and looks like your right on stage with them. Very
> intimate.
>
> The DVD also showed me something I wasn't aware of - John Paul Jones
> is an amasing bass player.
>
> Regards
> IR

[Rob Adelman]

I have the DVD. i.m.o. Bonham was the biggest ingredient followed by
Robert Plant. JPJ may even come in ahead of Page, who I do agree is a
great guitarist, but possibly over-rated.

[Wulfye]

I love this Dvd and love Zeppelin and also find JP.Jones great and truly
underated, but Page ain't no great guitarist and even in this dvd he is off
time a lot and very sloppy, he had great vision and great ideas that I don't
think he could perform the way he heard it in his head....


"Rob Adelman" > wrote in message
...
> I have the DVD. i.m.o. Bonham was the biggest ingredient followed by
> Robert Plant. JPJ may even come in ahead of Page, who I do agree is a
> great guitarist, but possibly over-rated.
>

[DaveDrummer]

They are all great, but I have to admit JPJ is underated and was a huge part
of the band, especially in the song/riff writing aspect.

"Rob Adelman" > wrote in message
...
> I have the DVD. i.m.o. Bonham was the biggest ingredient followed by
> Robert Plant. JPJ may even come in ahead of Page, who I do agree is a
> great guitarist, but possibly over-rated.
>

[jim andrews]

In article >,
says...

> The DVD is literally riveting.

I'm not a Zep freak, but I have to agree. I picked that DVD up several
months ago, and was completely blown away by the first 30 minutes or so.
What a staggeringly talented band.

In particular, I was SO impressed by Robert Plant. Prior to buying the
DVD, I would have put him at the bottom of the Zep totem pole in terms
of talent, with Page & Bonham tied at the top. Now, I'd be hard-pressed
not to put Plant at the top, followed by Bonham, Jones, and then Page.

Of course, they were a true ensemble, the sum of which was greater than
the parts. Still, Plant blew me away.

jim andrews
basset sound
austin, tx

[Eric]

There's an interesting interview with Kevin Shirley in the November 2003
Sound-On-Sound. Turns out the whole project (album and DVD) was
assembled in ProTools HD with, like, a terabyte of storage online to
play with. Must be nice...

--
Eric Frampton, keyboards Atlanta, Georgia, USA
http://www.ericframpton.com

[Kurt Riemann]

On 9 Mar 2004 11:52:58 -0800, (Iowa Recorder) wrote:

>I know this has already been discussed but I finally went out and got
>the DVD and just have to shout from the roof tops how great it is!
>

Here's an interesting site if you want to find out about the edits . .
..

http://www.simplyled.net/thegardentapes.html

[Phil Aiken]

> Same for the Beatles, IMO, although you could argue that Ringo didn't do
> much for them.

-----------------
You could argue that - but you'd be wrong.....
Just one guy's opinion....
-Phil Aiken

[Lou Gimenez]

really, I found it disappointing, When I was a kid I loved Led Zep,
especially Albums 1 & 2. I thought the band great and Jimmy Page one hell
of a guitar player. Years later when I saw Song Remains the Same, I thought
the John Paula Jones And Bonham sounded fine. Plant and Page were a big let
down. especially Jimmy Page. I had always heard that early Zep was amazing,
that Jimmy Page was great on the early Zep tours. That DVD shows me that the
rest of the band was good, Plant before he blew it out was that guy on the
first 2 records. Jimmy Page's playing is a mess, just really sloppy, really
disappointing that a guy with great ideas and very good execution at least
on the first record couldn't get that together live.
--Lou Gimenez
The Music Lab
2" 24track w all the Goodies
www.musiclabnyc.com



> From: jim andrews >
> Organization: Road Runner High Speed Online http://www.rr.com
> Newsgroups: rec.audio.pro
> Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 05:49:06 GMT
> Subject: Re: Led Zeppelin DVD revisited
>
> In article >,
> says...
>
>> The DVD is literally riveting.
>
> I'm not a Zep freak, but I have to agree. I picked that DVD up several
> months ago, and was completely blown away by the first 30 minutes or so.
> What a staggeringly talented band.
>
> In particular, I was SO impressed by Robert Plant. Prior to buying the
> DVD, I would have put him at the bottom of the Zep totem pole in terms
> of talent, with Page & Bonham tied at the top. Now, I'd be hard-pressed
> not to put Plant at the top, followed by Bonham, Jones, and then Page.
>
> Of course, they were a true ensemble, the sum of which was greater than
> the parts. Still, Plant blew me away.
>
> jim andrews
> basset sound
> austin, tx

[DaveDrummer]

Page's sloppyness is part of the style. That music makes me feel good, I
dont care if that 32nd note was exactly in place. Plus, the band together
grooved very well. It doesnt matter is everyone screwes up just as long as
they do it all together. Zeppelin was a great band and they all have some
ESP going on up on stage. Each other knew exactly what the other was
thinking, just listen to their music.

Dave

"Eric" > wrote in message
...
> There's an interesting interview with Kevin Shirley in the November 2003
> Sound-On-Sound. Turns out the whole project (album and DVD) was
> assembled in ProTools HD with, like, a terabyte of storage online to
> play with. Must be nice...
>
> --
> Eric Frampton, keyboards Atlanta, Georgia, USA
> http://www.ericframpton.com

[ryanm]

"Phil Aiken" > wrote in message
om...
> -----------------
> You could argue that - but you'd be wrong.....
> Just one guy's opinion....
>
Well... what I meant was, if Ringo had been replaced the Beatles might
not have fallen apart, but without any of the 4, Zeppelin definitely
would've fallen apart (and did).

ryanm

[ryanm]

"Wulfye" > wrote in message
. ..
> I love this Dvd and love Zeppelin and also find JP.Jones great and truly
> underated, but Page ain't no great guitarist and even in this dvd he is
off
> time a lot and very sloppy, he had great vision and great ideas that I
don't
> think he could perform the way he heard it in his head....
>
That's just how Pagey plays. There are two thing you have to remember,
when looking at Page as a player. First is that he *can* play accurately,
I've seen video of him as a kid beating down bad ass banjo players with his
speed and accuracy. He plays sloppy and out of time as a style, not because
he simply couldn't play what he heard in his head. Remember, he was one of
the few rock players in those days who *could* play those blistering licks.
Today his stuff may seem run-of-the-mill and dissapointing, but only in
context with all the younger guitarists who learned how to play by watching
Page. It's easy to be impressively tall when you're standing on someone
else's shoulders.

The second thing is, I would like to see how accurately you play full of
heroin and whatever else they were taking at the time... ; )

ryanm

[Rob Adelman]

ryanm wrote:


>
> Well... what I meant was, if Ringo had been replaced the Beatles might
> not have fallen apart, but without any of the 4, Zeppelin definitely
> would've fallen apart (and did).
>
But Zep may have survived with a replacement guitarist, possibly
bassist, but not without Bonham or Plant.

[Lou Gimenez]

Bull****, Page's sloppiness was probably because of the drugs and alcohol.
He sure aint sloppy on Led Zep 1. The band grooved because bonham and John
Paul Jones were still solid live. The songs were great the albums were
great, But every solo Page took on that dvd was a let down. Its too bad
since the guy had such a great imagination
--Lou Gimenez
The Music Lab
2" 24track w all the Goodies
www.musiclabnyc.com



> From: "DaveDrummer" >
> Organization: Road Runner
> Newsgroups: rec.audio.pro
> Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 21:38:14 GMT
> Subject: Re: Led Zeppelin DVD revisited
>
> Page's sloppyness is part of the style. That music makes me feel good, I
> dont care if that 32nd note was exactly in place. Plus, the band together
> grooved very well. It doesnt matter is everyone screwes up just as long as
> they do it all together. Zeppelin was a great band and they all have some
> ESP going on up on stage. Each other knew exactly what the other was
> thinking, just listen to their music.
>
> Dave
>
> "Eric" > wrote in message
> ...
>> There's an interesting interview with Kevin Shirley in the November 2003
>> Sound-On-Sound. Turns out the whole project (album and DVD) was
>> assembled in ProTools HD with, like, a terabyte of storage online to
>> play with. Must be nice...
>>
>> --
>> Eric Frampton, keyboards Atlanta, Georgia, USA
>> http://www.ericframpton.com
>
>

[Lou Gimenez]

So its not really his style, its the dope. If it was his style why didn't he
play that way on the early records, He was just formulating a style to be
that sloppy? He certainly did play well on those records, he did at one
point in time have chops, it just ain't anywhere on that dvd. FWIW I am I
fan, just a disappointed one. Its too bad he let drugs and alcohol get in
the way.
--Lou Gimenez
The Music Lab
2" 24track w all the Goodies
www.musiclabnyc.com



> From: "ryanm" >
> Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com
> Newsgroups: rec.audio.pro
> Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 15:55:56 -0600
> Subject: Re: Led Zeppelin DVD revisited
>
> That's just how Pagey plays. There are two thing you have to remember,
> when looking at Page as a player. First is that he *can* play accurately,
> I've seen video of him as a kid beating down bad ass banjo players with his
> speed and accuracy. He plays sloppy and out of time as a style, not because
> he simply couldn't play what he heard in his head. Remember, he was one of
> the few rock players in those days who *could* play those blistering licks.
> Today his stuff may seem run-of-the-mill and dissapointing, but only in
> context with all the younger guitarists who learned how to play by watching
> Page. It's easy to be impressively tall when you're standing on someone
> else's shoulders.
>
> The second thing is, I would like to see how accurately you play full of
> heroin and whatever else they were taking at the time... ; )

[Iowa Recorder]

Lou Gimenez > wrote in message news:<BC75133A.479E6%>

> He certainly did play well on those records, he did at one
> point in time have chops, it just ain't anywhere on that dvd. FWIW I am I
> fan, just a disappointed one. Its too bad he let drugs and alcohol get in
> the way.

What I did notice was this is the best I've seen Page play live. Most
of the live footage I've seen previously was SAD. Still it's good to
hear him rip it up in the Royal Albert Hall sequence. Yeh sloppy and
brash but some great chops and tone. He hit quite a few keepers in
that sequence.

The second DVD was alot like The Song remains the same except some of
the "takes" such as "Stairway to Heaven" and "Whole Lotta Love" were
"keepers".
But alot of it was mostly just playing what was on the record - which
isn't why I like live performances. I go to live shows in hope they
will do something differant.

Still I loved the CD for the sound, dynamics and interplay. Still a
keeper in my book. It is the best live footage I've seen of Page as
well. Great to see Bonzo at the ripe old age of 21 ripping it up.

Still raving...
IR

[Ricky W. Hunt]

"DaveDrummer" > wrote in message
...
> Page's sloppyness is part of the style.

Exactly. People really rag the solo break in Heartbreaker but it's PERFECT.
It would sound ridiculous played ala Malmsteem. It's the sloppiness that
makes it rock. And sometimes playing sloppy (but good) on purpose is
extremely hard.

[Lou Gimenez]

sloppy on purpose? cmon, your kidding right. Jimmy Page is a guitar player
with great ideas, who as time went on was less able to execute them. A great
player can have feel and tons emotion in his playing without being sloppy.
--Lou Gimenez
The Music Lab
2" 24track w all the Goodies
www.musiclabnyc.com



> From: "Ricky W. Hunt" >
> Organization: MediaCom High Speed Internet
> Newsgroups: rec.audio.pro
> Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 04:46:10 GMT
> Subject: Re: Led Zeppelin DVD revisited
>
> "DaveDrummer" > wrote in message
> ...
>> Page's sloppyness is part of the style.
>
> Exactly. People really rag the solo break in Heartbreaker but it's PERFECT.
> It would sound ridiculous played ala Malmsteem. It's the sloppiness that
> makes it rock. And sometimes playing sloppy (but good) on purpose is
> extremely hard.
>
>

[Paul C. Weber]

I agree with the whole lot, mate.
Just one thing, out of curiosity...

Has anyone listened to Remasters lately?
If so, check out "the Song remains the same", (8th track, 3rd disc)
towards the end... is it just me, or the laste vocal part (say the
last minute or so) appears to have been pitched up?
In these modern days of "perfect pitch shifting-harmonies", some
things just sound glaringly obvious...

I wonder...

Paul


(Iowa Recorder) wrote in message >...
> I know this has already been discussed but I finally went out and got
> the DVD and just have to shout from the roof tops how great it is!
>
> I was on the road for a long time with a monsterously talented
> keyboardist. He was into so many differant styles of music and had
> quite a critical ear. He had also been to hundreds of concerts. I
> asked him one time. What was the best show you've seen. He said;
> "Led Zeppelin in 1970". I was puzzled by this as I had seen "The Song
> Remains the Same" and I couldn't relate to how my friend had been so
> profoundly impressed. Well this DVD answers all that.
>
> The DVD is literally riveting.
>
> First off the sound is great. Most of it is very well recorded. The
> band plays with dynamics I haven't heard in a live recording... from
> monster loud to literally whispering.... Along with the close camera
> work it sounds and looks like your right on stage with them. Very
> intimate.
>
> The DVD also showed me something I wasn't aware of - John Paul Jones
> is an amasing bass player.
>
> Regards
> IR

[Steven Sullivan]

Rob Adelman > wrote:


> ryanm wrote:


> >
> > Well... what I meant was, if Ringo had been replaced the Beatles might
> > not have fallen apart, but without any of the 4, Zeppelin definitely
> > would've fallen apart (and did).
> >
> But Zep may have survived with a replacement guitarist


er...given that he basically built the band, wrote a big chunk of hte material
, and how important he was to the band in the studio, I'd say you're wrong.


--

-S.
who saw them on the '77 tour

[Steven Sullivan]

Paul C. Weber > wrote:
> I agree with the whole lot, mate.
> Just one thing, out of curiosity...

> Has anyone listened to Remasters lately?
> If so, check out "the Song remains the same", (8th track, 3rd disc)
> towards the end... is it just me, or the laste vocal part (say the
> last minute or so) appears to have been pitched up?
> In these modern days of "perfect pitch shifting-harmonies", some
> things just sound glaringly obvious...

Several tracks on Houses of the Holy were vocally 'pitched up',
including the 'Song Remains the Same'.



--

-S.

"They've got God on their side. All we've got is science and reason."
-- Dawn Hulsey, Talent Director

[Ricky W. Hunt]

"Steven Sullivan" > wrote in message
...
> > >
> > But Zep may have survived with a replacement guitarist
>
>
> er...given that he basically built the band, wrote a big chunk of hte
material
> , and how important he was to the band in the studio, I'd say you're
wrong.
>

I agree with Steven. He was the architect of that band. The other guys are
completely essential too but without Page there would be no Led Zeppelin.

[ryanm]

"Rob Adelman" > wrote in message
...
>
> But Zep may have survived with a replacement guitarist, possibly
> bassist, but not without Bonham or Plant.
>
Actually, I don't think so. IMO, Plant was the most replaceable. Page
paid for it all and came up with the riffs. Jones and Bonham were the
backbone. Plant just had a pretty voice. IMO, of course.

ryanm

[ryanm]

"Lou Gimenez" > wrote in message
...
> sloppy on purpose? cmon, your kidding right. Jimmy Page is a guitar player
> with great ideas, who as time went on was less able to execute them. A
great
> player can have feel and tons emotion in his playing without being sloppy.
>
Which clearly shows that you don't understand or appreciate the style.

ryanm

[Lou Gimenez]

right, thats what it is. Only you know, I'm just curious, do you play
guitar?
--Lou Gimenez
The Music Lab
2" 24track w all the Goodies
www.musiclabnyc.com



> From: "ryanm" >
> Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com
> Newsgroups: rec.audio.pro
> Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 19:23:11 -0600
> Subject: Re: Led Zeppelin DVD revisited
>
> "Lou Gimenez" > wrote in message
> ...
>> sloppy on purpose? cmon, your kidding right. Jimmy Page is a guitar player
>> with great ideas, who as time went on was less able to execute them. A
> great
>> player can have feel and tons emotion in his playing without being sloppy.
>>
> Which clearly shows that you don't understand or appreciate the style.
>
> ryanm
>
>

[Lou Gimenez]

you actually don't lnow that much about Zep do you. For some of the later
records, Page was hardly there, he was too wasted. John Paul Jones and
Robert Plant were the creative force on a few of the later records.
--Lou Gimenez
The Music Lab
2" 24track w all the Goodies
www.musiclabnyc.com



> From: "ryanm" >
> Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com
> Newsgroups: rec.audio.pro
> Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 19:22:03 -0600
> Subject: Re: Led Zeppelin DVD revisited
>
> "Rob Adelman" > wrote in message
> ...
>>
>> But Zep may have survived with a replacement guitarist, possibly
>> bassist, but not without Bonham or Plant.
>>
> Actually, I don't think so. IMO, Plant was the most replaceable. Page
> paid for it all and came up with the riffs. Jones and Bonham were the
> backbone. Plant just had a pretty voice. IMO, of course.
>
> ryanm
>
>

[Lou Gimenez]

Zep would never have survived without Page. He was the founder and was a
huge part of what they did in the studio.
--Lou Gimenez
The Music Lab
2" 24track w all the Goodies
www.musiclabnyc.com



> From: Steven Sullivan >
> Organization: PANIX Public Access Internet and UNIX, NYC
> Newsgroups: rec.audio.pro
> Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 23:05:17 +0000 (UTC)
> Subject: Re: Led Zeppelin DVD revisited
>
> Rob Adelman > wrote:
>
>
>> ryanm wrote:
>
>
>>>
>>> Well... what I meant was, if Ringo had been replaced the Beatles might
>>> not have fallen apart, but without any of the 4, Zeppelin definitely
>>> would've fallen apart (and did).
>>>
>> But Zep may have survived with a replacement guitarist
>
>
> er...given that he basically built the band, wrote a big chunk of hte material
> , and how important he was to the band in the studio, I'd say you're wrong.
>
>
> --
>
> -S.
> who saw them on the '77 tour
>
>

[ryanm]

"Lou Gimenez" > wrote in message
...
> right, thats what it is. Only you know, I'm just curious, do you play
> guitar?
>
Yes. I also play bass, drums, piano/keys, harmonica, congas and
timbales, and several horns. I happen to be primarily a vocalist, though.
What's your point?

Page *always* played sloppy live with Zeppelin, and Zeppelin always did
a lot of improv stuff live that didn't always work out. Who cares? It
doesn't make them any less talented or important in the grand scheme of
things. It was just the style he chose to play in. He would often play
sloppy rock and then follow it up with impeccable acoustic work, so it
wasn't just a matter of being too stoned to play it accurately, he was
intentionally playing sloppy because that's what he thought the songs called
for. Someone else mentioned the stop in Heartbreaker. The whole reason that
it's cool is because it's just a balls-out fumble across the fretboard. It
conveys feeling, even if he doesn't hit all of the notes cleanly and
accurately. It is what it is. And yes, I also am occasionally let down by
performances I see of Page playing sloppy crap that doesn't fit into the
song, but that's just what he did. And if he hadn't done it, none of the
guitarists who have since copped all of his licks would have any material to
draw on and improve.

ryanm

[Ryan]

"ryanm" > wrote in message

> Well... what I meant was, if Ringo had been replaced the Beatles might
> not have fallen apart, but without any of the 4, Zeppelin definitely
> would've fallen apart (and did).
>
> ryanm

I don't believe that for a second and can't believe you do either.
Ringo was in three or four other bands when John and Paul came around
and begged him to play with them. The drummer they had at the time,
can't remember the name, was just not cutting it, that's why they went
after Ringo. Also, sometime in the late sixties Ringo expressed the
same notion that you did, and actually left the band for a short time.
Suffice to say it didn't take long for the rest of the band to beg
and plead for him to come back. If he would have refused, the Beatles
quite possibly *would have* fallen apart. Don't be a Ringo Hater.

[ryanm]

"Ryan" > wrote in message
om...
>
> I don't believe that for a second and can't believe you do either.
> Ringo was in three or four other bands when John and Paul came around
> and begged him to play with them. The drummer they had at the time,
> can't remember the name, was just not cutting it, that's why they went
> after Ringo. Also, sometime in the late sixties Ringo expressed the
> same notion that you did, and actually left the band for a short time.
> Suffice to say it didn't take long for the rest of the band to beg
> and plead for him to come back. If he would have refused, the Beatles
> quite possibly *would have* fallen apart. Don't be a Ringo Hater.
>
I don't hate him, I just think he contributed less than the other three.
Ringo was the slacker of the band, but every band has (and needs) one.

ryanm

[hank alrich]

Ryan wrote:

> The drummer they had at the time,
> can't remember the name,

Pete Best

--
ha

[hank alrich]

ryanm wrote:

> "Lou Gimenez" wrote...

> > sloppy on purpose? cmon, your kidding right. Jimmy Page is a guitar
> player > with great ideas, who as time went on was less able to execute
> them. A great > player can have feel and tons emotion in his playing
> without being sloppy.

> Which clearly shows that you don't understand or appreciate the style.

There's a chance he knows the band well enough to have appreciated it
when you were still ****ting yellow.

--
ha

[Ricky W. Hunt]

"ryanm" > wrote in message
...
>
> Page *always* played sloppy live with Zeppelin, and Zeppelin always
did
> a lot of improv stuff live that didn't always work out. Who cares?

I admire the courage it takes to "step out" and risk making a fool of
yourself. It's certainly more enjoyable as a player to do that and I think
musicians (in the audience) appreciate it too.

> he was
> intentionally playing sloppy because that's what he thought the songs
called
> for.

Boom! That's the bottom line. Serve the song. I know musical taste is an
opinion and there are no right and wrongs but while I appreciate what
Malmsteem and that guy from Mr. Big can do it bores me to tears and my ears
literally tune it out within about 10 seconds (to me it's about as
"soul-less" music as you could make) whereas with some of the Page stuff the
screwups (if you want to call them that) are just as interesting and speak
just as much as the "correct" stuff does.

> Someone else mentioned the stop in Heartbreaker. The whole reason that
> it's cool is because it's just a balls-out fumble across the fretboard.

To me rock IS attitude and that solo conveys that. I love that Cheech and
Chong movie (I think it's "Next Movie") where Chong is wailing away on the
guitar (very badly of course) and making the faces but is SO into it. That
just "embodies" rock to me and you HAVE to have that attitude regardless of
whether you are playing clean or not. I think that (and the "allowed"
fumbles) draws many more people and certainly inspires more people to pick
up the guitar thinking, "Well, I could do that".

[Bryson]

(hank alrich) wrote in message >...
> ryanm wrote:
>
> > "Lou Gimenez" wrote...
>
> > > sloppy on purpose? cmon, your kidding right. Jimmy Page is a guitar
> > player > with great ideas, who as time went on was less able to execute
> > them. A great > player can have feel and tons emotion in his playing
> > without being sloppy.
>
> > Which clearly shows that you don't understand or appreciate the style.
>
> There's a chance he knows the band well enough to have appreciated it
> when you were still ****ting yellow.

I know I shat when I first heard/saw Led Zep. I was ten, 1969, Earl
Warren Showgrounds, Santa Barbara, with Jethro Tull

[DaveDrummer]

JPJ wrote Whole Lotta Love, Heartbreaker, and Black Dog just to name a few

Dave
"hank alrich" > wrote in message
. ..
> Ryan wrote:
>
> > The drummer they had at the time,
> > can't remember the name,
>
> Pete Best
>
> --
> ha

[lardy]

On Fri, 12 Mar 2004 11:36:51 +0000, DaveDrummer wrote
(in article >):

> JPJ wrote Whole Lotta Love, Heartbreaker, and Black Dog just to name a few

Not according to the credits on my albums he didn't...

[Lou Gimenez]

I doubt it. I'm not such young guy
--Lou Gimenez
The Music Lab
2" 24track w all the Goodies
www.musiclabnyc.com



> From: (hank alrich)
> Organization: secret mountain
> Newsgroups: rec.audio.pro
> Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 03:57:45 GMT
> Subject: Re: Led Zeppelin DVD revisited
>
> ryanm wrote:
>
>> "Lou Gimenez" wrote...
>
>>> sloppy on purpose? cmon, your kidding right. Jimmy Page is a guitar
>> player > with great ideas, who as time went on was less able to execute
>> them. A great > player can have feel and tons emotion in his playing
>> without being sloppy.
>
>> Which clearly shows that you don't understand or appreciate the style.
>
> There's a chance he knows the band well enough to have appreciated it
> when you were still ****ting yellow.
>
> --
> ha

[Lou Gimenez]

sorry senility kicked in, see I'm not a young guy
--Lou Gimenez
The Music Lab
2" 24track w all the Goodies
www.musiclabnyc.com



> From: (hank alrich)
> Organization: secret mountain
> Newsgroups: rec.audio.pro
> Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 03:57:45 GMT
> Subject: Re: Led Zeppelin DVD revisited
>
> ryanm wrote:
>
>> "Lou Gimenez" wrote...
>
>>> sloppy on purpose? cmon, your kidding right. Jimmy Page is a guitar
>> player > with great ideas, who as time went on was less able to execute
>> them. A great > player can have feel and tons emotion in his playing
>> without being sloppy.
>
>> Which clearly shows that you don't understand or appreciate the style.
>
> There's a chance he knows the band well enough to have appreciated it
> when you were still ****ting yellow.
>
> --
> ha

[Lou Gimenez]

ringo's drumming was an integral part of the beatle sound, the way he tuned
his drums, cymbal choices. The way he approached drumming,he was often more
of a percussionist than a traditional traps player. I'm sure George Martin
had a lot of suggestions but Ringo was the man.
--Lou Gimenez
The Music Lab
2" 24track w all the Goodies
www.musiclabnyc.com



> From: "ryanm" >
> Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com
> Newsgroups: rec.audio.pro
> Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 20:17:41 -0600
> Subject: Re: Led Zeppelin DVD revisited
>
> "Ryan" > wrote in message
> om...
>>
>> I don't believe that for a second and can't believe you do either.
>> Ringo was in three or four other bands when John and Paul came around
>> and begged him to play with them. The drummer they had at the time,
>> can't remember the name, was just not cutting it, that's why they went
>> after Ringo. Also, sometime in the late sixties Ringo expressed the
>> same notion that you did, and actually left the band for a short time.
>> Suffice to say it didn't take long for the rest of the band to beg
>> and plead for him to come back. If he would have refused, the Beatles
>> quite possibly *would have* fallen apart. Don't be a Ringo Hater.
>>
> I don't hate him, I just think he contributed less than the other three.
> Ringo was the slacker of the band, but every band has (and needs) one.
>
> ryanm
>
>

[Lou Gimenez]

sorry, I don't buy it. guitar players who loved Jimmy Page's playing were
inspired by what they heard on record, where he could punch it and get it
right. His solos for the most part were pretty ****in cool. Great ideas that
were executed at least decently, and on the first record really well. If the
only thing we heard of him back then was as sloppy as his live playing
I'm not sure he would be. Keep in mind when the first Led Zepplin record
came out Jimi Hendrix was around in all his amazingness, Clapton was playing
his ass off, Jeff Beck was making some serious noise with Rod Stewart. And
that's just in england. The guitar playing bar was pretty high back then.
JP's sloppiness it doesn't make him less innovative, it's just too bad he
let drugs and alcohol get in the way of his playing. BTW I've never heard of
a guitar player playing sloppy on purpose, unless they were goofing around.
There's a big difference between feel and slop.
--Lou Gimenez
The Music Lab
2" 24track w all the Goodies
www.musiclabnyc.com



> From: "ryanm" >
> Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com
> Newsgroups: rec.audio.pro
> Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 20:13:05 -0600
> Subject: Re: Led Zeppelin DVD revisited
>
> "Lou Gimenez" > wrote in message
> ...
>> right, thats what it is. Only you know, I'm just curious, do you play
>> guitar?
>>
> Yes. I also play bass, drums, piano/keys, harmonica, congas and
> timbales, and several horns. I happen to be primarily a vocalist, though.
> What's your point?
>
> Page *always* played sloppy live with Zeppelin, and Zeppelin always did
> a lot of improv stuff live that didn't always work out. Who cares? It
> doesn't make them any less talented or important in the grand scheme of
> things. It was just the style he chose to play in. He would often play
> sloppy rock and then follow it up with impeccable acoustic work, so it
> wasn't just a matter of being too stoned to play it accurately, he was
> intentionally playing sloppy because that's what he thought the songs called
> for. Someone else mentioned the stop in Heartbreaker. The whole reason that
> it's cool is because it's just a balls-out fumble across the fretboard. It
> conveys feeling, even if he doesn't hit all of the notes cleanly and
> accurately. It is what it is. And yes, I also am occasionally let down by
> performances I see of Page playing sloppy crap that doesn't fit into the
> song, but that's just what he did. And if he hadn't done it, none of the
> guitarists who have since copped all of his licks would have any material to
> draw on and improve.
>
> ryanm
>
>

[Lou Gimenez]

Ricky Hunt said:
> Boom! That's the bottom line. Serve the song. I know musical taste is an
> opinion and there are no right and wrongs but while I appreciate what
> Malmsteem and that guy from Mr. Big can do it bores me to tears and my ears
> literally tune it out within about 10 seconds (to me it's about as
> "soul-less" music as you could make) whereas with some of the Page stuff the
> screwups (if you want to call them that) are just as interesting and speak
> just as much as the "correct" stuff does.
>
I agree, what JP played on record did serve the song, And on record you
don't really hear screwups, Not like on that live dvd. What you're talking
about is feel and emotion which don't go hand in hand with sloppy.
--Lou Gimenez
The Music Lab
2" 24track w all the Goodies
www.musiclabnyc.com




>
> Boom! That's the bottom line. Serve the song. I know musical taste is an
> opinion and there are no right and wrongs but while I appreciate what
> Malmsteem and that guy from Mr. Big can do it bores me to tears and my ears
> literally tune it out within about 10 seconds (to me it's about as
> "soul-less" music as you could make) whereas with some of the Page stuff the
> screwups (if you want to call them that) are just as interesting and speak
> just as much as the "correct" stuff does.
>
>> Someone else mentioned the stop in Heartbreaker. The whole reason that
>> it's cool is because it's just a balls-out fumble across the fretboard.
>
> To me rock IS attitude and that solo conveys that. I love that Cheech and
> Chong movie (I think it's "Next Movie") where Chong is wailing away on the
> guitar (very badly of course) and making the faces but is SO into it. That
> just "embodies" rock to me and you HAVE to have that attitude regardless of
> whether you are playing clean or not. I think that (and the "allowed"
> fumbles) draws many more people and certainly inspires more people to pick
> up the guitar thinking, "Well, I could do that".
>
>

[[email protected]]

lardy > wrote in message >...
> On Fri, 12 Mar 2004 11:36:51 +0000, DaveDrummer wrote
> (in article >):
>
> > JPJ wrote Whole Lotta Love, Heartbreaker, and Black Dog just to name a few
>
> Not according to the credits on my albums he didn't...

Oh, I wouldn't trust the credits very much. Rememeber LZ is a band
that got sued for not giving credit on some of their blatant blues
reworkings. Plus, the credits are probably similar to Jagger-Richards,
where even though it was Bill Wymans's riff that turned into Jumpin
Jack Flash, he get no credit. JPJ's statement at the hall of fame or
some other awards event saying he'd like to "thank Jimmy and Robert
for remembering his phone number" says alot..

[hank alrich]

Lou Gimenez wrote:

> What you're talking
> about is feel and emotion which don't go hand in hand with sloppy.

Not even with sloppy drunk?

--
ha

[Lou Gimenez]

gee hank, when you put it like that...
--Lou Gimenez
The Music Lab
2" 24track w all the Goodies
www.musiclabnyc.com



> From: (hank alrich)
> Organization: secret mountain
> Newsgroups: rec.audio.pro
> Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 21:27:40 GMT
> Subject: Re: Led Zeppelin DVD revisited
>
> Lou Gimenez wrote:
>
>> What you're talking
>> about is feel and emotion which don't go hand in hand with sloppy.
>
> Not even with sloppy drunk?
>
> --
> ha

[lardy]

On Fri, 12 Mar 2004 21:09:02 +0000, wrote
(in article >):

>>
>>> JPJ wrote Whole Lotta Love, Heartbreaker, and Black Dog just to name a few
>>
>> Not according to the credits on my albums he didn't...
>
> Oh, I wouldn't trust the credits very much. Rememeber LZ is a band
> that got sued for not giving credit on some of their blatant blues
> reworkings. Plus, the credits are probably similar to Jagger-Richards,
> where even though it was Bill Wymans's riff that turned into Jumpin
> Jack Flash, he get no credit. JPJ's statement at the hall of fame or
> some other awards event saying he'd like to "thank Jimmy and Robert
> for remembering his phone number" says alot..

Well, Willie Dixon does get a credit on Whole Lotta Love nowadays...

Actually though, if you look at the songwriting credits on the Zep albums,
there's a pretty even mixture of Page/Plant, Jones/Page/Plant,
Bonham/Jones/Page/Plant, Bonham/Jones/Page, Bonham/Page/Plant etc.

I always assumed the songwriting credits would be a Page/Plant carve-up too,
so I was kind of surprised to see just how much the credits were shared
around. I was even more surprised to see that Plant had no songwriting
credits at all on Led Zep 1.

[DaveDrummer]

Its a true argument about the writers of the songs, but you have to
remember, if someone comes up with one riff that doesn't mean they wrote the
whole song. I know that JPJ wrote the riffs for these songs at least, not
the entire arrangement

Dave

"lardy" > wrote in message
...
> On Fri, 12 Mar 2004 21:09:02 +0000, wrote
> (in article >):
>
> >>
> >>> JPJ wrote Whole Lotta Love, Heartbreaker, and Black Dog just to name a
few
> >>
> >> Not according to the credits on my albums he didn't...
> >
> > Oh, I wouldn't trust the credits very much. Rememeber LZ is a band
> > that got sued for not giving credit on some of their blatant blues
> > reworkings. Plus, the credits are probably similar to Jagger-Richards,
> > where even though it was Bill Wymans's riff that turned into Jumpin
> > Jack Flash, he get no credit. JPJ's statement at the hall of fame or
> > some other awards event saying he'd like to "thank Jimmy and Robert
> > for remembering his phone number" says alot..
>
> Well, Willie Dixon does get a credit on Whole Lotta Love nowadays...
>
> Actually though, if you look at the songwriting credits on the Zep albums,
> there's a pretty even mixture of Page/Plant, Jones/Page/Plant,
> Bonham/Jones/Page/Plant, Bonham/Jones/Page, Bonham/Page/Plant etc.
>
> I always assumed the songwriting credits would be a Page/Plant carve-up
too,
> so I was kind of surprised to see just how much the credits were shared
> around. I was even more surprised to see that Plant had no songwriting
> credits at all on Led Zep 1.
>

[hank alrich]

lardy wrote:

> Well, Willie Dixon does get a credit on Whole Lotta Love nowadays...

Thanks to the Bug Music folks. <applause> It didn't happen out of the
goodness of the dirigible's hearts.

--
ha

[ryanm]

"Lou Gimenez" > wrote in message
...
>
> Keep in mind when the first Led Zepplin record
> came out Jimi Hendrix was around in all his amazingness,
>
Another fairly sloppy player who often took the song in a direction it
shouldn't go. Also a genius.

> Clapton was playing his ass off,
>
Ass for tone, but a *great* player. It has to suck to release something
as good as Layla that early in your career, because it can only be downhill
from there.

> Jeff Beck was making some serious noise with Rod Stewart.
>
Yeah, have you listened to that album lately? Not exactly the manual on
clean and accurate playing. I like Truth, which was comparitively sloppy,
better than anything Beck has done since.

> BTW I've never heard of a guitar player playing sloppy on purpose,
> unless they were goofing around.
> There's a big difference between feel and slop.
>
I think you have, you just didn't know it.

ryanm

[ryanm]

"hank alrich" > wrote in message
...
>
> There's a chance he knows the band well enough to have appreciated it
> when you were still ****ting yellow.
>
Hey, I was listening to Zep when I was ****ting yellow. But if you watch
the live shows, Page will play some balls-out sloppy crap, and then play
something like Bron-Y-Aur perfectly, without a single misfret or wrong note,
and there just no way that can be attributed to "too many drugs". When
you're jacked up on drugs, you don't suddenly sober up for one song, only to
go back to being too ****ed up to play on the next song, it just don't work
like that. Which brings us right back to why Page was the right man for the
job. A player like Vai or Malmsteen would've ruined Zeppelin with their
accuracy. Page wasn't afraid to say "screw accuracy, I'm playing whatever
notes happen to be under my fingers at the time", and that's part of what
made it cool. It goes back to the old blues method: if you play something
wrong on the I, just play it wrong again on the IV and then it's right. <g>

ryanm

[Bill Wilson]

> er...given that he basically built the band, wrote a big chunk of hte material
> , and how important he was to the band in the studio, I'd say you're wrong.

Yup, it's not possible that Zep would have continued on the same
course without Page. To think otherwise is simply a joke. I saw Zep at
the Seattle Kingdome many years ago, rocked the place for over 3
hours. Jimmy was NOT playing the albums. I remember thinking, "this is
totally different". Since that time I have seen Jimmy Page many times
in interviews and he says, "when I play live I just improvise and try
to make up something new". That's what he does. Clearly, some nights
will be better than others. On a, "not so inspired night", it probably
wasn't that memorable. On an inspired night it's magic. That's what
he's going for. That's why he created so many hits. He's got an
imagination and he tries to nurture it. That's why he didn't make a
living playing Rolling Stones tunes in the bars. He lives on the edge,
takes chances, and in his case, I'd say he came away a big winner.

Bill Wilson

[Lou Gimenez]

>> Keep in mind when the first Led Zepplin record
>> came out Jimi Hendrix was around in all his amazingness,
ryanm said:
> Another fairly sloppy player who often took the song in a direction it
> shouldn't go. Also a genius.

Your ****ing kidding right, there's nothing sloppy about Hendrix, listen to
Band Of Gypsy record, that's guitar playing sonny, live

Clapton was playing his ass off,
ryanm said
> Ass for tone, but a *great* player. It has to suck to release something
> as good as Layla that early in your career, because it can only be downhill
> from there.
Ass for tone? Which tone are you referring to? The sound clapton got on the
cream studio albums, the Wheels Of Fire live sides? the Goodbye cream
recordings? How about on the Delaney & Bonnie record, or Layla. Mavbe you
dont dig his sound these days. From the cradle has some killin tones.
So I guess you know nothing about sound

>> Jeff Beck was making some serious noise with Rod Stewart.
ryanm said
> Yeah, have you listened to that album lately? Not exactly the manual on
> clean and accurate playing. I like Truth, which was comparitively sloppy,
> better than anything Beck has done since.

Compared to Jimmy Page on that DVD its the height of cleanliness

>> BTW I've never heard of a guitar player playing sloppy on purpose,
>> unless they were goofing around.
>> There's a big difference between feel and slop.
ryanm said
>> I think you have, you just didn't know it.

Sonny what you've shown is, you know nothing about guitar playing and
probably not much about music. You've wasted enough of my time, **** off
--Lou Gimenez
The Music Lab
2" 24track w all the Goodies
www.musiclabnyc.com

[PVP9847]

jimmy page was a BRILLIANT arranger / orchestrator, not to mention a SERIOUS
****ing guitar player - but...he was also sloppy as **** - not that it made a
bit of ****in' difference - zeppelin was the **** !!! (and i wasn't even a fan
at the time) - i was more into mick ronson - - as far as Hendrix being
sloppy... get ****in' real - there's not a person alive who can judge his
guitar playing - he reinvented the electric guitar - and took his songs in the
wrong direction??? - i can't even respond to that... - the greatest guitarists
of the time (clapton, page, beck, etc., **** themselves the first time they saw
hendrix

[Don Pearce]

On 14 Mar 2004 19:52:16 GMT, (PVP9847) wrote:

>jimmy page was a BRILLIANT arranger / orchestrator, not to mention a SERIOUS
>****ing guitar player - but...he was also sloppy as **** - not that it made a
>bit of ****in' difference - zeppelin was the **** !!! (and i wasn't even a fan
>at the time) - i was more into mick ronson - - as far as Hendrix being
>sloppy... get ****in' real - there's not a person alive who can judge his
>guitar playing - he reinvented the electric guitar - and took his songs in the
>wrong direction??? - i can't even respond to that... - the greatest guitarists
>of the time (clapton, page, beck, etc., **** themselves the first time they saw
>hendrix
>
>
But the really funny thing? Hendrix used to stand at the side of the
stage, gazing in awe at Engelbert Humperdinck. And he was totally
phased at the idea of playing guitar for Steve Winwood. Go figure...

d

_____________________________

http://www.pearce.uk.com

[DaveDrummer]

Hendrix didnt know how good he really was..

"Don Pearce" > wrote in message
...
> On 14 Mar 2004 19:52:16 GMT, (PVP9847) wrote:
>
> >jimmy page was a BRILLIANT arranger / orchestrator, not to mention a
SERIOUS
> >****ing guitar player - but...he was also sloppy as **** - not that it
made a
> >bit of ****in' difference - zeppelin was the **** !!! (and i wasn't even
a fan
> >at the time) - i was more into mick ronson - - as far as Hendrix being
> >sloppy... get ****in' real - there's not a person alive who can judge his
> >guitar playing - he reinvented the electric guitar - and took his songs
in the
> >wrong direction??? - i can't even respond to that... - the greatest
guitarists
> >of the time (clapton, page, beck, etc., **** themselves the first time
they saw
> >hendrix
> >
> >
> But the really funny thing? Hendrix used to stand at the side of the
> stage, gazing in awe at Engelbert Humperdinck. And he was totally
> phased at the idea of playing guitar for Steve Winwood. Go figure...
>
> d
>
> _____________________________
>
> http://www.pearce.uk.com

[hank alrich]

ryanm wrote about J Hendrix:

> Another fairly sloppy player who often took the song in a direction it
> shouldn't go. Also a genius.

Ryan, you're some kinda megalomaniacal chump to think _you_ have clue
****ing ONE about where a song Jimi Hendrix played _should have gone_.

If you can say that crap, then maybe you can play some stuff that shows
where _you_ think the material should head. If you could do that you'd
be famous instead of merely pompous.

--
ha

[ryanm]

"hank alrich" > wrote in message
.. .
>
> Ryan, you're some kinda megalomaniacal chump to think _you_ have clue
> ****ing ONE about where a song Jimi Hendrix played _should have gone_.
>
As easily as anyone can say that Page did the same. Hendrix
*experimented*, sometimes the result was amazing, other times it was kind of
ugly. That how experiments work.

> If you can say that crap, then maybe you can play some stuff that shows
> where _you_ think the material should head. If you could do that you'd
> be famous instead of merely pompous.
>
Let's just say that the Monterrey solo (the one where he set his guitar
on fire) wasn't exactly what I would call the epitome of clean and accurate
playing, but that doesn't mean I didn't think it was cool.

ryanm

[ryanm]

"Lou Gimenez" > wrote in message
...
>
> Your ****ing kidding right, there's nothing sloppy about Hendrix, listen
to
> Band Of Gypsy record, that's guitar playing sonny, live
>
You're right, the solo at Monterrey where he set his guitar on fire was
*the* definition of clean and accurate playing right? Wild Thing was
*soooooo* accurate that the guitar itself went out of tune in response?
Gimme a break. The bottom line is that Hendirx didn't care about what people
thought constituted good tone or good playing, he played whatever he felt.
Sometimes it was ugly, sometimes it was almost a religous experience. That
*is* my favorite Hendrix album, though.

> Ass for tone? Which tone are you referring to? The sound clapton got on
the
> cream studio albums, the Wheels Of Fire live sides? the Goodbye cream
> recordings? How about on the Delaney & Bonnie record, or Layla. Mavbe you
> dont dig his sound these days. From the cradle has some killin tones.
> So I guess you know nothing about sound
>
*Most* of the time, his tone is ****. Sometimes better than others. But
it's his tone and I wouldn't presume to tell him that he should change it.
Hendrix's tone sucked most of the time too, that doesn't mean he wasn't
good. Hendrix played with too many tone-sucking toys to have good tone most
of the time.

ryanm

[Iowa Recorder]

> ryanmryanm" > wrote in message >...
> "hank alrich" > wrote in message
> .. .
> >
> > Ryan, you're some kinda megalomaniacal chump to think _you_ have clue
> > ****ing ONE about where a song Jimi Hendrix played _should have gone_.

I think the worst tone is the cronic of abuse of drugs.

Nothing against getting a buzz but like everybody's mum said;
"Everything in moderation"

We are discussing troubled people who who tried to find an easy way
out. They didn't make it. Hendrix died. Claption kicked his heroin
habit. Jimmy might be still drinking. (Though this DVD shows he
still has creative powers.)

I get the sad honor of growing old and watching people get hooked and
die.

Like I said I loved the DVD just because it was a good sounding
product. I didn't intend to make it a thread about the decline of
some truely talented people. So sad...

nuff said
IR

[Steven Sullivan]

wrote:
> lardy > wrote in message >...
> > On Fri, 12 Mar 2004 11:36:51 +0000, DaveDrummer wrote
> > (in article >):
> >
> > > JPJ wrote Whole Lotta Love, Heartbreaker, and Black Dog just to name a few
> >
> > Not according to the credits on my albums he didn't...

> Oh, I wouldn't trust the credits very much. Rememeber LZ is a band
> that got sued for not giving credit on some of their blatant blues
> reworkings.

One of which was Whole Lotta Love.


--

-S.

"They've got God on their side. All we've got is science and reason."
-- Dawn Hulsey, Talent Director

[Steven Sullivan]

Lou Gimenez > wrote:

> >> Keep in mind when the first Led Zepplin record
> >> came out Jimi Hendrix was around in all his amazingness,
> ryanm said:
> > Another fairly sloppy player who often took the song in a direction it
> > shouldn't go. Also a genius.
>
> Your ****ing kidding right, there's nothing sloppy about Hendrix, listen to
> Band Of Gypsy record, that's guitar playing sonny, live

Welcome to 2003, where rock guitar has been evolving for, like,
a half century or so. What was once the height of technique inevitably
gets surpassed. So compared to guys like Van Halen or
Steve Vai or their clones (or even earlier on, Robert Fripp) -- or,
hell, compared to any good classical guitarist -- Hendrix *was*
sloppy. So was Page. Doesn't matter. They were both guitar geniuses as well.
'Voodoo Child (Slight Return)" and 'Machine Gun' still blow
me away every time I hear them.





--

-S.

"They've got God on their side. All we've got is science and reason."
-- Dawn Hulsey, Talent Director

[hank alrich]

Steven Sullivan wrote:

> tbogdon
> > lardy wrote
> > > DaveDrummer wrote

> > > >JPJ wrote Whole Lotta Love, Heartbreaker, and Black Dog just to name a ew

> > > Not according to the credits on my albums he didn't...

> > Oh, I wouldn't trust the credits very much. Rememeber LZ is a band
> > that got sued for not giving credit on some of their blatant blues
> > reworkings.

> One of which was Whole Lotta Love.

RIP Willie Dixon

--
ha

[Lou Gimenez]

From: Lou Gimenez >
Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 13:35:03 -0500
To: ryanm >
Subject: Re: Led Zeppelin DVD revisited

The solo where he set his guitar on fire? The more you you continue the more
you show how little you know. How can you compare something that's being
done for show versus when he's playing for real. His guitar falling out of
tune also has nothing to do with sloppy playing. **** happens I think
hendrix did care about playing well, go through his live recordings and
listen for how many times he's sloppy when he didn't have the benefit of
cleanup that was done on How The West Was Won versus whats happening
with JP. And Clapton's sound has never been ****. And Hendrix's sound
pretty much defined what a strat should sound like in the hard rock world.
BTW although I think Page had great sounds on the studio recordings that's
not exactly a wonderful guitar tone on that DVD or on the song remains the
same. Give it a break already
--Lou Gimenez
The Music Lab
2" 24track w all the Goodies
www.musiclabnyc.com



> From: "ryanm" >
> Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com
> Newsgroups: rec.audio.pro
> Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2004 17:57:23 -0600
> Subject: Re: Led Zeppelin DVD revisited
>
> "Lou Gimenez" > wrote in message
> ...
>>
>> Your ****ing kidding right, there's nothing sloppy about Hendrix, listen
> to
>> Band Of Gypsy record, that's guitar playing sonny, live
>>
> You're right, the solo at Monterrey where he set his guitar on fire was
> *the* definition of clean and accurate playing right? Wild Thing was
> *soooooo* accurate that the guitar itself went out of tune in response?
> Gimme a break. The bottom line is that Hendirx didn't care about what people
> thought constituted good tone or good playing, he played whatever he felt.
> Sometimes it was ugly, sometimes it was almost a religous experience. That
> *is* my favorite Hendrix album, though.
>
>> Ass for tone? Which tone are you referring to? The sound clapton got on
> the
>> cream studio albums, the Wheels Of Fire live sides? the Goodbye cream
>> recordings? How about on the Delaney & Bonnie record, or Layla. Mavbe you
>> dont dig his sound these days. From the cradle has some killin tones.
>> So I guess you know nothing about sound
>>
> *Most* of the time, his tone is ****. Sometimes better than others. But
> it's his tone and I wouldn't presume to tell him that he should change it.
> Hendrix's tone sucked most of the time too, that doesn't mean he wasn't
> good. Hendrix played with too many tone-sucking toys to have good tone most
> of the time.
>
> ryanm
>
>

[Lou Gimenez]

Really Hendrix wasn't sloppy, at least not consistently. Guys like Van
Halen, and Vai certainly have more chops, your right, the technique end of
things did evolve, those guys can play faster. To me Bob Fripp's thing is
way out of the blues based arena which is where Hendrix, Clapton, Page,
Stevie Ray Vaughn, Johnny Winter etc come from. All of these guys are great.
This dopey thread was about the playing on a particular DVD. The back and
forth is because of someone who doesn't know anything making some dumb
statements about playing sloppy on purpose and then saying even more dumb
**** to back up a bad argument. Voodoo Child and Machine Gun are killers.
--Lou Gimenez
The Music Lab
2" 24track w all the Goodies
www.musiclabnyc.com



> From: Steven Sullivan >
> Organization: PANIX Public Access Internet and UNIX, NYC
> Newsgroups: rec.audio.pro
> Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 18:20:37 +0000 (UTC)
> Subject: Re: Led Zeppelin DVD revisited
>
> Lou Gimenez > wrote:
>
>>>> Keep in mind when the first Led Zepplin record
>>>> came out Jimi Hendrix was around in all his amazingness,
>> ryanm said:
>>> Another fairly sloppy player who often took the song in a direction it
>>> shouldn't go. Also a genius.
>>
>> Your ****ing kidding right, there's nothing sloppy about Hendrix, listen to
>> Band Of Gypsy record, that's guitar playing sonny, live
>
> Welcome to 2003, where rock guitar has been evolving for, like,
> a half century or so. What was once the height of technique inevitably
> gets surpassed. So compared to guys like Van Halen or
> Steve Vai or their clones (or even earlier on, Robert Fripp) -- or,
> hell, compared to any good classical guitarist -- Hendrix *was*
> sloppy. So was Page. Doesn't matter. They were both guitar geniuses as
> well.
> 'Voodoo Child (Slight Return)" and 'Machine Gun' still blow
> me away every time I hear them.
>
>
>
>
>
> --
>
> -S.
>
> "They've got God on their side. All we've got is science and reason."
> -- Dawn Hulsey, Talent Director
>
>

[ryanm]

"Lou Gimenez" > wrote in message
...
>
> The solo where he set his guitar on fire?
>
Yes, prior to setting it on fire, you are aware that he was playing a
solo?

> How can you compare something that's being
> done for show versus when he's playing for real.
>
Ah, so there is some point in the performance where he stopped "playing
for real" and was doing something for show? As opposed to the whole *show*
being "for show"? You're making less and less sense as you try to be more
obtuse.

ryanm