Theater Organ Recording

[Charles Tomaras]

Looking for ideas and suggestions.

I've done a couple of gratis audio recordings for the Puget Sound Theater Organ
Society of a unique theater organ and piano that is installed in a private home
/ mansion. Here is a link to information on the home and instrument:

http://www.pstos.org/instruments/wa/gig-harbor/soundview-manor.htm

The piano (which is a Yamaha Diskclavier and can be played from the organ via
midi) is not an issue as I've had great success with a pair of Schoeps
CMC6/MK4's. For the organ I have used two methods so far and am looking to
refine my methods as there are now a couple of paying gigs recording these
instruments for a CD (no audience) and surround DVD performance with audience.

My first outing I placed a pair of Schoeps BLM-03C's on the flat front edge of
the balcony which can be seen on the right side of the third to the last picture
on the web site. The sound was very solid with amazing capture of low end. I
felt it was a bit distant for the quieter less dynamic portions of the
performance and because the blowers are fairly close to the room, the blower
rumble became more noticeable.

For my second outing last week I flew a Pearl MS-8 mid side mic from the balcony
on an 18 foot boom pole extended toward the center of the pipe array. I've not
yet had a chance to hear the results on anything other than headphones at the
recording as the tapes went with away with the video folks who were documenting
the concert. Here's a link to the Pearl Mic:

http://www.pearl.se/ems8.htm

I liked what I was hearing in the headphones but still feel that there could be
improvement. One idea I have is to go with the BLM's again but mount them on two
squares of Plexiglas flown in the center with a 45 degree angle between them.

Should I be considering multiple mics for an instrument like this with possibly
omnis or wide cardiods near various sections of the instrument as there are
trumpets, horns, drums and all manner of different contraptions? I'd love to
hear from those of you with experience in recording theater organs.

Charles Tomaras
Seattle, WA

[Richard Crowley]

"Charles Tomaras" wrote ...
> Looking for ideas and suggestions.
> I've done a couple of gratis audio recordings for the
> Puget Sound Theater Organ Society of a unique theater
> organ and piano that is installed in a private home
> / mansion. Here is a link to information on the home
> and instrument:
>
> http://www.pstos.org/instruments/wa/gig-harbor/soundview-manor.htm
>
> The piano (which is a Yamaha Diskclavier and can be
> played from the organ via midi) is not an issue as I've
> had great success with a pair of Schoeps CMC6/MK4's.
> For the organ I have used two methods so far and am
> looking to refine my methods as there are now a couple
> of paying gigs recording these instruments for a CD (no
> audience) and surround DVD performance with audience.
>
> My first outing I placed a pair of Schoeps BLM-03C's on
> the flat front edge of the balcony which can be seen on the
> right side of the third to the last picture on the web site.
> The sound was very solid with amazing capture of low end.
> I felt it was a bit distant for the quieter less dynamic portions
> of the performance

"Traditional" classical pipe organs are critically dependent on
the space in which they are installed. Indeed they are "voiced"
in-situ (12th-octave EQ from centuries ago! :-) But even theater
organs are dependent on their acoustics. Is that wall-to-wall
carpeting on the main floor?

When you say "quieter" do you mean parts of the music that were
played with softer/fewer ranks of pipes, or parts that were played
with the expression shutters closed? Possible solution(s) might be
different for these two scenarios.

> and because the blowers are fairly close to the room, the blower
> rumble became more noticeable.

Many (most?) of the recordings of pipe organs that I have
heard, particularly the "rescued" theater organs, make no
apologies for the mechanical noise (wind supply, tremolo
bellows, combination mechanisms, expression shutters, etc.)
as they are an accepted part of the "experience" of the
venerable but complex instruments.

> For my second outing last week I flew a Pearl MS-8 mid
> side mic from the balcony on an 18 foot boom pole extended
> toward the center of the pipe array. I've not yet had a chance
> to hear the results on anything other than headphones at the
> recording as the tapes went with away with the video folks
> who were documenting the concert. Here's a link to the
> Pearl Mic:
>
> http://www.pearl.se/ems8.htm
>
> I liked what I was hearing in the headphones but still feel
> that there could be improvement. One idea I have is to go
> with the BLM's again but mount them on two squares of
> Plexiglas flown in the center with a 45 degree angle
> between them.
>
> Should I be considering multiple mics for an instrument like
> this with possibly omnis or wide cardiods near various sections
> of the instrument as there are trumpets, horns, drums and all
> manner of different contraptions? I'd love to hear from those
> of you with experience in recording theater organs.

I've seen/heard/done recordings done both ways: "classic stereo"
micing; and "multi-track spotlight/section micing". Depends
on the instrument, the performance space, the music, and the
preference of the producer/sponsor.

I'd love to work on the project if you need another volunteer
on either the audio or the video side. (I'm in PDX.)

Audio/video/pipe organ references on my personal website.
www.rcrowley.com

[Charles Tomaras]

"Richard Crowley" > wrote in message
...
> "Charles Tomaras" wrote ...
> > Looking for ideas and suggestions.
> > I've done a couple of gratis audio recordings for the
> > Puget Sound Theater Organ Society of a unique theater
> > organ and piano that is installed in a private home
> > / mansion. Here is a link to information on the home
> > and instrument:
> >
> > http://www.pstos.org/instruments/wa/gig-harbor/soundview-manor.htm
> >
> > The piano (which is a Yamaha Diskclavier and can be
> > played from the organ via midi) is not an issue as I've
> > had great success with a pair of Schoeps CMC6/MK4's.
> > For the organ I have used two methods so far and am
> > looking to refine my methods as there are now a couple
> > of paying gigs recording these instruments for a CD (no
> > audience) and surround DVD performance with audience.
> >
> > My first outing I placed a pair of Schoeps BLM-03C's on
> > the flat front edge of the balcony which can be seen on the
> > right side of the third to the last picture on the web site.
> > The sound was very solid with amazing capture of low end.
> > I felt it was a bit distant for the quieter less dynamic portions
> > of the performance
>
> "Traditional" classical pipe organs are critically dependent on
> the space in which they are installed. Indeed they are "voiced"
> in-situ (12th-octave EQ from centuries ago! :-) But even theater
> organs are dependent on their acoustics. Is that wall-to-wall
> carpeting on the main floor?
>
> When you say "quieter" do you mean parts of the music that were
> played with softer/fewer ranks of pipes, or parts that were played
> with the expression shutters closed? Possible solution(s) might be
> different for these two scenarios.

As I was in an adjoining room and only able to see the performer and not the
pipes I'd have to say both with the shutters closed and with just fewer pipes
and less air.




>
> > and because the blowers are fairly close to the room, the blower
> > rumble became more noticeable.
>
> Many (most?) of the recordings of pipe organs that I have
> heard, particularly the "rescued" theater organs, make no
> apologies for the mechanical noise (wind supply, tremolo
> bellows, combination mechanisms, expression shutters, etc.)
> as they are an accepted part of the "experience" of the
> venerable but complex instruments.

I don't mind the high end hiss of the air supply nor the mechanical sounds of
the everything else, it's more a low end rumble from the blower motors that I'm
told in many installations are much further or better isolated from the
performance space. I would imagine that some judicuous post eq or noise removal
could go a long way towards minimizing this low end especially on more exposed
passages where low end pipes are not being emphasized.



>
> > For my second outing last week I flew a Pearl MS-8 mid
> > side mic from the balcony on an 18 foot boom pole extended
> > toward the center of the pipe array. I've not yet had a chance
> > to hear the results on anything other than headphones at the
> > recording as the tapes went with away with the video folks
> > who were documenting the concert. Here's a link to the
> > Pearl Mic:
> >
> > http://www.pearl.se/ems8.htm
> >
> > I liked what I was hearing in the headphones but still feel
> > that there could be improvement. One idea I have is to go
> > with the BLM's again but mount them on two squares of
> > Plexiglas flown in the center with a 45 degree angle
> > between them.
> >
> > Should I be considering multiple mics for an instrument like
> > this with possibly omnis or wide cardiods near various sections
> > of the instrument as there are trumpets, horns, drums and all
> > manner of different contraptions? I'd love to hear from those
> > of you with experience in recording theater organs.
>
> I've seen/heard/done recordings done both ways: "classic stereo"
> micing; and "multi-track spotlight/section micing". Depends
> on the instrument, the performance space, the music, and the
> preference of the producer/sponsor.
>
> I'd love to work on the project if you need another volunteer
> on either the audio or the video side. (I'm in PDX.)

I'll keep you in mind as we get closer to the next project which will be in late
winter or early spring. We are hopefully going to record Jonas Nordwall who
resides in Portland.


>
> Audio/video/pipe organ references on my personal website.
> www.rcrowley.com
>
>

[Scott Dorsey]

Charles Tomaras > wrote:
>
>I don't mind the high end hiss of the air supply nor the mechanical sounds of
>the everything else, it's more a low end rumble from the blower motors that I'm
>told in many installations are much further or better isolated from the
>performance space. I would imagine that some judicuous post eq or noise removal
>could go a long way towards minimizing this low end especially on more exposed
>passages where low end pipes are not being emphasized.

Some of that is conducted vibration that good shock mounting can reduce.
Some of it is due to air currents more than actual noise, and if you can
move the mikes around you can often find places in the room where it is
much lower. Shut the air conditioning system off! Most people forget all
about the HVAC noise.

Most of this is broadband stuff so I don't see EQ helping much, but you might
try some of the digital noise reduction software just to see if you like the
results.

I'm going to recommend baffled omni stuff because of the distant imaging
and because of the very flat low end. But that flat low end can often make
the noise problems worse.

>I'll keep you in mind as we get closer to the next project which will be in late
>winter or early spring. We are hopefully going to record Jonas Nordwall who
>resides in Portland.

Where? I did a gig once at an absolutely amazing presbyterian church in
Portland, which does seem to be a great place for organ music.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[S O'Neill]

Charles Tomaras wrote:

> Looking for ideas and suggestions.
>
> I've done a couple of gratis audio recordings for the Puget Sound Theater Organ
> Society of a unique theater organ and piano that is installed in a private home
> / mansion. Here is a link to information on the home and instrument:
>
> http://www.pstos.org/instruments/wa/gig-harbor/soundview-manor.htm
>

Just curious, has Rex Khoury ever been in there?

[Charles Tomaras]

"Scott Dorsey" > wrote in message
...
> Charles Tomaras > wrote:
> >
> >I don't mind the high end hiss of the air supply nor the mechanical sounds of
> >the everything else, it's more a low end rumble from the blower motors that
I'm
> >told in many installations are much further or better isolated from the
> >performance space. I would imagine that some judicuous post eq or noise
removal
> >could go a long way towards minimizing this low end especially on more
exposed
> >passages where low end pipes are not being emphasized.
>
> Some of that is conducted vibration that good shock mounting can reduce.
> Some of it is due to air currents more than actual noise, and if you can
> move the mikes around you can often find places in the room where it is
> much lower. Shut the air conditioning system off! Most people forget all
> about the HVAC noise.
>
> Most of this is broadband stuff so I don't see EQ helping much, but you might
> try some of the digital noise reduction software just to see if you like the
> results.
>
> I'm going to recommend baffled omni stuff because of the distant imaging
> and because of the very flat low end. But that flat low end can often make
> the noise problems worse.


Any sites or URL's you can recommend where "baffled" omni's are shown or
discussed?


>
> >I'll keep you in mind as we get closer to the next project which will be in
late
> >winter or early spring. We are hopefully going to record Jonas Nordwall who
> >resides in Portland.
>
> Where? I did a gig once at an absolutely amazing presbyterian church in
> Portland, which does seem to be a great place for organ music.
> --scott

The recording will be in the Wurlitzer house in Gig Harbor, WA that I have been
speaking about. If I'm not mistaken Jonas Nordwall is the organist at the church
you mention.

[Charles Tomaras]

"S O'Neill" > wrote in message
...
> Charles Tomaras wrote:
>
> > Looking for ideas and suggestions.
> >
> > I've done a couple of gratis audio recordings for the Puget Sound Theater
Organ
> > Society of a unique theater organ and piano that is installed in a private
home
> > / mansion. Here is a link to information on the home and instrument:
> >
> > http://www.pstos.org/instruments/wa/gig-harbor/soundview-manor.htm
> >
>
> Just curious, has Rex Khoury ever been in there?

I'm not familiar with that name so I can't comment.

[Scott Dorsey]

Charles Tomaras > wrote:
Scott Dorsey wrote:
>>
>> I'm going to recommend baffled omni stuff because of the distant imaging
>> and because of the very flat low end. But that flat low end can often make
>> the noise problems worse.
>
>Any sites or URL's you can recommend where "baffled" omni's are shown or
>discussed?

I think the tutorial on stereophony on the Josephson web site mentions them.
They also have some discussion on building a Jecklin disc which is one of
the more common baffle arrangement. (The Schoeps sphere is effectively
quite similar, as are a couple other baffle systems).

>> >I'll keep you in mind as we get closer to the next project which will be in
>late
>> >winter or early spring. We are hopefully going to record Jonas Nordwall who
>> >resides in Portland.
>>
>> Where? I did a gig once at an absolutely amazing presbyterian church in
>> Portland, which does seem to be a great place for organ music.
>
>The recording will be in the Wurlitzer house in Gig Harbor, WA that I have been
>speaking about. If I'm not mistaken Jonas Nordwall is the organist at the church
>you mention.

At the time, James Welty was the organist there, but I think he left some time
in 1992 or so. Absolutely fabulous organ, though, and a room that was as good
as the organ.

We are fortunate enough to have several excellent theatre organs in this area,
including the Mighty Wurlitzer at the Byrd Theatre in Richmond, VA. It is
just amazing to sit on the edge of the stage and listen to the clattering and
whirring from the mechanism, though. Lots and lots of big telegraph relays...
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[Charles Tomaras]

"Scott Dorsey" > wrote in message
...
> We are fortunate enough to have several excellent theatre organs in this area,
> including the Mighty Wurlitzer at the Byrd Theatre in Richmond, VA. It is
> just amazing to sit on the edge of the stage and listen to the clattering and
> whirring from the mechanism, though. Lots and lots of big telegraph relays...
> --scott
> --
> "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

Don't know if you read the full description of the organ mechanism I've been
talking about, but on this one they have eliminated all those old relays and
replaced them with computer relays. It's in the second part of this article if
you missed it. The organ will even control the Yamaha Disklavier piano which was
used to great effect in the most recent performance called Ragmatazz. The
pianist was playing solo ragtime while the organist joined him and seamlessly
took over control of the piano as the pianist lifted his hands from the keys and
was merely pretending to play. Got a great response from the audience.

http://www.pstos.org/instruments/wa/gig-harbor/soundview-manor.htm

"With 48 ranks of pipes and numerous accessories to command, this console is
lighter than ever before as all of its work is done by a computer system that
requires only electronic components in the console and a single ribbon, about
three inches wide, connecting it to the control panel. The wizardry of Mr.
Wilcox has made all of this possible, and the technical skill of Ed Zollman has
brought it to completion."

[Scott Dorsey]

Charles Tomaras > wrote:
>
>Don't know if you read the full description of the organ mechanism I've been
>talking about, but on this one they have eliminated all those old relays and
>replaced them with computer relays. It's in the second part of this article if
>you missed it. The organ will even control the Yamaha Disklavier piano which was
>used to great effect in the most recent performance called Ragmatazz.

The Mighty Wurlitzer at the Byrd can also control a piano as well as a
harp from the main console, although it is done with several racks of relays
and a solenoid cable out to the piano that is probably two inches around.
And no velocity control, of course.

>"With 48 ranks of pipes and numerous accessories to command, this console is
>lighter than ever before as all of its work is done by a computer system that
>requires only electronic components in the console and a single ribbon, about
>three inches wide, connecting it to the control panel. The wizardry of Mr.
>Wilcox has made all of this possible, and the technical skill of Ed Zollman has
>brought it to completion."

Doesn't that just take a lot of the fun out of it? There's something oddly
awe-inspiring about the whole electromechanical thing, if only because of the
sheer size of it all.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[Charles Tomaras]

"Scott Dorsey" > wrote in message
...
>
> >"With 48 ranks of pipes and numerous accessories to command, this console is
> >lighter than ever before as all of its work is done by a computer system that
> >requires only electronic components in the console and a single ribbon, about
> >three inches wide, connecting it to the control panel. The wizardry of Mr.
> >Wilcox has made all of this possible, and the technical skill of Ed Zollman
has
> >brought it to completion."
>
> Doesn't that just take a lot of the fun out of it? There's something oddly
> awe-inspiring about the whole electromechanical thing, if only because of the
> sheer size of it all.
> --scott

I don't know...I kind of see it as the past meeting the present. There's still
plenty of electromechanical stuff happening! I know the organists love the
responsiveness of the instrument. When I get my hands back on the tapes in a
week or so I'll post a tune or two to my FTP site and send you a link. Is
Windows Media 9 a problem for you? Broadband? I'd sure hate to dumb it down to a
tiny file.

Charlie

[Jerry Steiger]

"Charles Tomaras" > wrote in message
...
> Looking for ideas and suggestions.
>
> I've done a couple of gratis audio recordings for the Puget Sound Theater
Organ
> Society of a unique theater organ and piano that is installed in a private
home
> / mansion. Here is a link to information on the home and instrument:
>
> http://www.pstos.org/instruments/wa/gig-harbor/soundview-manor.htm


The article says, and the pictures look like, the pipes are installed behind
large glass windows. Where does the sound get out?

Jerry Steiger

[Jerry Steiger]

"Charles Tomaras" > wrote in message
...
> Any sites or URL's you can recommend where "baffled" omni's are shown or
> discussed?

The Josephson site Scott mentioned is:
http://www.josephson.com/tn5.html

A picture of Scott's own disk is at:
http://www.techwood.org/kludge/mikes.html

If you want to buy one ready-made, these folks sell one:
http://www.core-sound.com/jecklin.html

I though I had a link or two for building your own, but I don't seem to be
able to find them now.

Jerry Steiger

[Charles Tomaras]

"Jerry Steiger" > wrote in message
...
> "Charles Tomaras" > wrote in message
> ...
> > Any sites or URL's you can recommend where "baffled" omni's are shown or
> > discussed?
>
> The Josephson site Scott mentioned is:
> http://www.josephson.com/tn5.html
>
> A picture of Scott's own disk is at:
> http://www.techwood.org/kludge/mikes.html
>
> If you want to buy one ready-made, these folks sell one:
> http://www.core-sound.com/jecklin.html
>
> I though I had a link or two for building your own, but I don't seem to be
> able to find them now.
>
> Jerry Steiger


Thanks!

[Charles Tomaras]

"Jerry Steiger" > wrote in message
...
> "Charles Tomaras" > wrote in message
> ...
> > Looking for ideas and suggestions.
> >
> > I've done a couple of gratis audio recordings for the Puget Sound Theater
> Organ
> > Society of a unique theater organ and piano that is installed in a private
> home
> > / mansion. Here is a link to information on the home and instrument:
> >
> > http://www.pstos.org/instruments/wa/gig-harbor/soundview-manor.htm
>
>
> The article says, and the pictures look like, the pipes are installed behind
> large glass windows. Where does the sound get out?
>
> Jerry Steiger

Glass is really only on the bottom panes...everything else is shuttered or open.
I haven't listened to many theater organs for a comparison, but this one sure
sounds grand!

[Richard Crowley]

"Jerry Steiger" > wrote in message
...
> "Charles Tomaras" > wrote in message
> ...
> > Looking for ideas and suggestions.
> >
> > I've done a couple of gratis audio recordings for the Puget Sound
Theater
> Organ
> > Society of a unique theater organ and piano that is installed in a
private
> home
> > / mansion. Here is a link to information on the home and instrument:
> >
> > http://www.pstos.org/instruments/wa/gig-harbor/soundview-manor.htm
>
>
> The article says, and the pictures look like, the pipes are installed
behind
> large glass windows. Where does the sound get out?

In the second photo, you will see the large expression shutters
above the windows. And in the fifth, you can see another large
shutter above the console (presumably a separate section?)

[Geoley]

Hi all
Pipe organs are my main area of interest in audio and have been since the
early 50's although I don't play at all, but I sure enjoy listening to a
well played recital be it church, concert (the Balboa Park Austin) and
theater organ. I was a member of ATOS and did some recording for friends
that issued 12" LP records on the San Gabriel Civic Auditorium Wurlitzer
back in the middle 70's and also at the Joe Koons Motorcycle Shop in Long
Beach, CA. The Joe Koons Saturday evening organ concerts were well known to
LATOS members. Many well known theater organists played the 3 manual 34 rank
Wurlitzer-Welte installed in the back of the shop, sadly all gone now. The
Portland (OR) area featured some great instruments and my favorite was the
47 rank Wurlitzer installed in the Organ Grinder Restaurant in South East
Portland and played by my favorite theater organist, Jonas Nordwall. One of
Jonas's best recordings IME is a CD produced by Organ Grinder Recordings
titled "Bits, Bytes & Pipes" Volume II. Just my thoughts looking back.
Anyone interested in the Joe Koons organ story I have an article written in
a local Long Beach paper all about Joe and his pipe organ. Just email me
and I'll send it to you.

Cheers

Geoley

[Richard Crowley]

> wrote ...
[Organ Grinder Pizza, Portland, Oregon]
> I remember visiting that restaurant in the '70's with a guitarist
> friend of mine. ONE of my most memorable dining experiences , not for
> the pizza as much as the organ music. Quite a fun evening.
>
> WHen I lived in Salem for awhile in 1981 I never got a chance to go
> there again but I believe it was still going strong. Does it still
> exist today?

Alas, no. Removed years ago and now resides in Arizona(?)
somewhere.

[Richard Crowley]

> wrote ...
> I remember visiting that restaurant in the '70's with a guitarist
> friend of mine. ONE of my most memorable dining experiences , not for
> the pizza as much as the organ music. Quite a fun evening.
>
> WHen I lived in Salem for awhile in 1981 I never got a chance to go
> there again but I believe it was still going strong. Does it still
> exist today?

Closed ~7 years ago. Organ parted out according to Usenet lore. :-(

[am]

> I don't know...I kind of see it as the past meeting the present. There's
still
> plenty of electromechanical stuff happening! I know the organists love the
> responsiveness of the instrument. When I get my hands back on the tapes in
a
> week or so I'll post a tune or two to my FTP site and send you a link. Is
> Windows Media 9 a problem for you? Broadband? I'd sure hate to dumb it
down to a
> tiny file.
>
> Charlie
>

Hey Charles, please post the link for all of us!

Don't worry about the size of the file. I would personally prefer an mp3
though can cope with wmv. Even those on dial-up won't complain if they love
theatre organs.

That Wilcox console looks fantastic and easier to play than the seven-manual
monsters. The surrounding are very homely and welcoming both to play and to
sit and listen.
I can only imagine what it sounds like.
I play the organ, although not so well.
There are no excellent players in my area, so CDs are the only way for me to
hear
great players.

-m

[Jerry Steiger]

"Richard Crowley" > wrote in message
...
> In the second photo, you will see the large expression shutters
> above the windows. And in the fifth, you can see another large
> shutter above the console (presumably a separate section?)


Thanks, Richard and Charles. Pretty obvious once you take more than a
passing glance at the pictures. But it's so much easier to ask you guys than
to work it out myself!

Jerry Steiger

[Carey Carlan]

"Charles Tomaras" > wrote in
:

> I don't mind the high end hiss of the air supply nor the mechanical
> sounds of the everything else, it's more a low end rumble from the
> blower motors that I'm told in many installations are much further or
> better isolated from the performance space. I would imagine that some
> judicuous post eq or noise removal could go a long way towards
> minimizing this low end especially on more exposed passages where low
> end pipes are not being emphasized.

Some noises give the instrument character. The rumble of the blower
motors, however, is just bothersome. I use a two-pronged approach.

1) Have the performer play the lowest note the organ can produce by itself.
Measure the frequency (usually 17 or 34 Hz) and cut everything below that.

2) Record the room with the organ on but silent to get a clean noise sample
and use that in digital noise reduction. The smoother and quieter the
sample, the more accurate the noise reduction. (quieter = no transients, no
trucks or sirens outside, etc. Just the blower noise.)

Shock mounts are only marginally effective at the low frequencies of the
rumble. They'll help, but you'll still need to remove some racket--or live
with it.

Use the normal noise reduction techniques as well. Turn off the air
conditioning (unless it would affect the pitch), and record during off
hours with less traffic/environmental noise.

[William Sommerwerck]

What about...

Moving around the auditorium to find spots where the blower rumble is at a
minimum? With any luck, one or more of these places might be suitable for
recording.

[Carey Carlan]

"William Sommerwerck" > wrote in
:

> What about...
>
> Moving around the auditorium to find spots where the blower rumble is
> at a minimum? With any luck, one or more of these places might be
> suitable for recording.

If the blower noise was a point source you might find a null in the room.
I find that the noise is usually carried by the structure of the building
which means it will be fairly even across the room.

[Charles Tomaras]

"am" > wrote in message ...
>
> > I don't know...I kind of see it as the past meeting the present. There's
> still
> > plenty of electromechanical stuff happening! I know the organists love the
> > responsiveness of the instrument. When I get my hands back on the tapes in
> a
> > week or so I'll post a tune or two to my FTP site and send you a link. Is
> > Windows Media 9 a problem for you? Broadband? I'd sure hate to dumb it
> down to a
> > tiny file.
> >
> > Charlie
> >
>
> Hey Charles, please post the link for all of us!

Will do, but it will probably be a week or so more before I get to it. I just
have the multi-track tapes (DAT's went with the video) and I've got a week long
gig that will take up all my time for a while.

[Charles Tomaras]

"Carey Carlan" > wrote in message
. 206...
> "Charles Tomaras" > wrote in
> :
>
> > I don't mind the high end hiss of the air supply nor the mechanical
> > sounds of the everything else, it's more a low end rumble from the
> > blower motors that I'm told in many installations are much further or
> > better isolated from the performance space. I would imagine that some
> > judicuous post eq or noise removal could go a long way towards
> > minimizing this low end especially on more exposed passages where low
> > end pipes are not being emphasized.
>
> Some noises give the instrument character. The rumble of the blower
> motors, however, is just bothersome. I use a two-pronged approach.
>
> 1) Have the performer play the lowest note the organ can produce by itself.
> Measure the frequency (usually 17 or 34 Hz) and cut everything below that.
>
> 2) Record the room with the organ on but silent to get a clean noise sample
> and use that in digital noise reduction. The smoother and quieter the
> sample, the more accurate the noise reduction. (quieter = no transients, no
> trucks or sirens outside, etc. Just the blower noise.)
>
> Shock mounts are only marginally effective at the low frequencies of the
> rumble. They'll help, but you'll still need to remove some racket--or live
> with it.
>
> Use the normal noise reduction techniques as well. Turn off the air
> conditioning (unless it would affect the pitch), and record during off
> hours with less traffic/environmental noise.

Great ideas...thanks.

[am]

> Will do, but it will probably be a week or so more before I get to it. I
just
> have the multi-track tapes (DAT's went with the video) and I've got a week
long
> gig that will take up all my time for a while.
>
No worries. I can wait.

[Kurt Albershardt]

Charles Tomaras wrote:
>
>
> I haven't listened to many theater organs for a comparison, but this one sure
> sounds grand!

Do go see & hear the one at the Paramount in downtown Seattle sometime.

[Charles Tomaras]

"Kurt Albershardt" > wrote in message
...
> Charles Tomaras wrote:
> >
> >
> > I haven't listened to many theater organs for a comparison, but this one
sure
> > sounds grand!
>
> Do go see & hear the one at the Paramount in downtown Seattle sometime.

Yes, I need to make it to one of the Silent Sunday movie series they put on. The
organist from the Silent Sundays was at the concert in Gig Harbor I recorded.

[Kurt Albershardt]

Charles Tomaras wrote:
>
>> Do go see & hear the one at the Paramount in downtown Seattle sometime.
>
> Yes, I need to make it to one of the Silent Sunday movie series they put on. The
> organist from the Silent Sundays was at the concert in Gig Harbor I recorded.

Saw "The Gold Rush" there last year and had a great time, really a
wonderful evening.

[Len Moskowitz]

Charles Tomaras > wrote:

>Should I be considering multiple mics for an instrument like this with possibly
>omnis or wide cardiods near various sections of the instrument as there are
>trumpets, horns, drums and all manner of different contraptions? I'd love to
>hear from those of you with experience in recording theater organs.

I'd stay away from spot miking and would capture the sound out in the
hall.

You might try a binaural recording and then playback over headphones.

For stereo playback, try a Jecklin or Schneider Disk with a pair of fine
omnis. Position them where you like the balance of sound.

Or, consider Ray Kimber's IsoMike setup.

--
Len Moskowitz PDAudio, Binaural Mics, Cables, DPA, M-Audio
Core Sound http://www.stealthmicrophones.com
Teaneck, New Jersey USA http://www.core-sound.com
Tel: 201-801-0812, FAX: 201-801-0912

[[email protected]]

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Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2003 22:36:20 GMT
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On 2003-11-14 said:
>The Portland (OR) area featured some great instruments
>and my favorite was the 47 rank Wurlitzer installed in the Organ
>Grinder Restaurant in South East Portland and played by my favorite
>theater organist, Jonas Nordwall.
I remember visiting that restaurant in the '70's with a guitarist
friend of mine. ONE of my most memorable dining experiences , not for
the pizza as much as the organ music. Quite a fun evening.

WHen I lived in Salem for awhile in 1981 I never got a chance to go
there again but I believe it was still going strong. Does it still
exist today?

Regards,





Richard Webb
Electric Spider Productions
REplace anything before the @ symbol with elspider for real email

--

[[email protected]]

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Date: Sat, 15 Nov 2003 19:03:34 GMT
Xref: intern1.nntp.aus1.giganews.com rec.audio.pro:1007542


On 2003-11-14 said:
>> I remember visiting that restaurant in the '70's with a guitarist
>> friend of mine. ONE of my most memorable dining experiences ,
<snip>
>> WHen I lived in Salem for awhile in 1981 I never got a chance to
>>go there again but I believe it was still going strong. Does it
>>still exist today?
>Closed ~7 years ago. Organ parted out according to Usenet lore. :-(
THat's too bad, but I'm sorry I never got back there in '81 when I
lived in Salem. A fun evening and a neat instrument to listen to.
Would have liked to have gotten a chance to play it.

rEgards,



Richard Webb
Electric Spider Productions
REplace anything before the @ symbol with elspider for real email

--