question about using Tango24 with ADAT-XT

[shawn]

Hi. My bassplayer owns a Tango24 (24-bit 8-channel A/D/A box from Frontier
Design Group) and an ADAT-XT. We are interested in using the ADAT for some
location recording. I have a couple questions for anybody who knows of
these things:

1. I assume the Tango24 A/D/A converters are better than the stock ADAT-XT
converters, yes?

2. Is there a way (without additional equipment) to make the Tango24's ADAT
outs dither down to 16-bit to record to the ADAT-XT?

3. Assuming the answer to question 2 is no, will truncating from 24-bit to
16-bit without dither negate the advantages of using the Tango24?

Thanks.

-Shawn

[shawn]

Anyone?

shawn wrote:
> Hi. My bassplayer owns a Tango24 (24-bit 8-channel A/D/A box from
> Frontier Design Group) and an ADAT-XT. We are interested in using
> the ADAT for some location recording. I have a couple questions for
> anybody who knows of these things:
>
> 1. I assume the Tango24 A/D/A converters are better than the stock
> ADAT-XT converters, yes?
>
> 2. Is there a way (without additional equipment) to make the
> Tango24's ADAT outs dither down to 16-bit to record to the ADAT-XT?
>
> 3. Assuming the answer to question 2 is no, will truncating from
> 24-bit to 16-bit without dither negate the advantages of using the
> Tango24?
>
> Thanks.
>
> -Shawn

[shawn]

Anyone?

shawn wrote:
> Hi. My bassplayer owns a Tango24 (24-bit 8-channel A/D/A box from
> Frontier Design Group) and an ADAT-XT. We are interested in using
> the ADAT for some location recording. I have a couple questions for
> anybody who knows of these things:
>
> 1. I assume the Tango24 A/D/A converters are better than the stock
> ADAT-XT converters, yes?
>
> 2. Is there a way (without additional equipment) to make the
> Tango24's ADAT outs dither down to 16-bit to record to the ADAT-XT?
>
> 3. Assuming the answer to question 2 is no, will truncating from
> 24-bit to 16-bit without dither negate the advantages of using the
> Tango24?
>
> Thanks.
>
> -Shawn

[shawn]

Bueller?

shawn wrote:
> Hi. My bassplayer owns a Tango24 (24-bit 8-channel A/D/A box from
> Frontier Design Group) and an ADAT-XT. We are interested in using
> the ADAT for some location recording. I have a couple questions for
> anybody who knows of these things:
>
> 1. I assume the Tango24 A/D/A converters are better than the stock
> ADAT-XT converters, yes?
>
> 2. Is there a way (without additional equipment) to make the
> Tango24's ADAT outs dither down to 16-bit to record to the ADAT-XT?
>
> 3. Assuming the answer to question 2 is no, will truncating from
> 24-bit to 16-bit without dither negate the advantages of using the
> Tango24?
>
> Thanks.
>
> -Shawn

[shawn]

Bueller?

shawn wrote:
> Hi. My bassplayer owns a Tango24 (24-bit 8-channel A/D/A box from
> Frontier Design Group) and an ADAT-XT. We are interested in using
> the ADAT for some location recording. I have a couple questions for
> anybody who knows of these things:
>
> 1. I assume the Tango24 A/D/A converters are better than the stock
> ADAT-XT converters, yes?
>
> 2. Is there a way (without additional equipment) to make the
> Tango24's ADAT outs dither down to 16-bit to record to the ADAT-XT?
>
> 3. Assuming the answer to question 2 is no, will truncating from
> 24-bit to 16-bit without dither negate the advantages of using the
> Tango24?
>
> Thanks.
>
> -Shawn

[5016]

"shawn" > wrote in message >...
> Anyone?


I'm no expert, but I'll give you my opinions.


>
> shawn wrote:
> > Hi. My bassplayer owns a Tango24 (24-bit 8-channel A/D/A box from
> > Frontier Design Group) and an ADAT-XT. We are interested in using
> > the ADAT for some location recording. I have a couple questions for
> > anybody who knows of these things:
> >
> > 1. I assume the Tango24 A/D/A converters are better than the stock
> > ADAT-XT converters, yes?

Probably. But not definitely. In general, new budget converters are
significantly better than old budget converters.

> >
> > 2. Is there a way (without additional equipment) to make the
> > Tango24's ADAT outs dither down to 16-bit to record to the ADAT-XT?
> >

If the Tango doesn't support 16-bit output then the answer is almost
certainly no.

> > 3. Assuming the answer to question 2 is no, will truncating from
> > 24-bit to 16-bit without dither negate the advantages of using the
> > Tango24?
> >

You normally only want to dither as the last stage in the process.
Unless you are releasing the recordings as an exact digital copy of
whatever you record, you don't want to dither when you are recording.
You are likely to want to do some normalization etc, so don't worry
about dithering.



> > Thanks.
> >
> > -Shawn

I would try it and see. Try the external converters, and the internal
converters, and send them the same signal. Make it a very low level
signal, as low as you can, so as to magnify the differences. Then play
it back with a lot of gain and see if you can tell the difference.

[5016]

"shawn" > wrote in message >...
> Anyone?


I'm no expert, but I'll give you my opinions.


>
> shawn wrote:
> > Hi. My bassplayer owns a Tango24 (24-bit 8-channel A/D/A box from
> > Frontier Design Group) and an ADAT-XT. We are interested in using
> > the ADAT for some location recording. I have a couple questions for
> > anybody who knows of these things:
> >
> > 1. I assume the Tango24 A/D/A converters are better than the stock
> > ADAT-XT converters, yes?

Probably. But not definitely. In general, new budget converters are
significantly better than old budget converters.

> >
> > 2. Is there a way (without additional equipment) to make the
> > Tango24's ADAT outs dither down to 16-bit to record to the ADAT-XT?
> >

If the Tango doesn't support 16-bit output then the answer is almost
certainly no.

> > 3. Assuming the answer to question 2 is no, will truncating from
> > 24-bit to 16-bit without dither negate the advantages of using the
> > Tango24?
> >

You normally only want to dither as the last stage in the process.
Unless you are releasing the recordings as an exact digital copy of
whatever you record, you don't want to dither when you are recording.
You are likely to want to do some normalization etc, so don't worry
about dithering.



> > Thanks.
> >
> > -Shawn

I would try it and see. Try the external converters, and the internal
converters, and send them the same signal. Make it a very low level
signal, as low as you can, so as to magnify the differences. Then play
it back with a lot of gain and see if you can tell the difference.

[Mike Tulley]

On Mon, 6 Oct 2003 14:48:35 -0400, "shawn"
> wrote:

>Hi. My bassplayer owns a Tango24 (24-bit 8-channel A/D/A box from Frontier
>Design Group) and an ADAT-XT. We are interested in using the ADAT for some
>location recording. I have a couple questions for anybody who knows of
>these things:
>
>1. I assume the Tango24 A/D/A converters are better than the stock ADAT-XT
>converters, yes?
>

Actually, Alesis ADAT AD converters varied quite a lot from one unit
to the next. Let's just say that the spec was not very tight. The
Tango may be no better than a good (lucky) ADAT AD, but they will most
likely be a lot better than a bad ADAT AD. You will have to listen
carefully and form your own opinion about your particular Tango24 and
ADAT XT. I like <MY> Tango24 much metter than <MY> ADAT.

>2. Is there a way (without additional equipment) to make the Tango24's ADAT
>outs dither down to 16-bit to record to the ADAT-XT?
>
Just truncate. Dither after mixdown.

Mike T.

[Mike Tulley]

On Mon, 6 Oct 2003 14:48:35 -0400, "shawn"
> wrote:

>Hi. My bassplayer owns a Tango24 (24-bit 8-channel A/D/A box from Frontier
>Design Group) and an ADAT-XT. We are interested in using the ADAT for some
>location recording. I have a couple questions for anybody who knows of
>these things:
>
>1. I assume the Tango24 A/D/A converters are better than the stock ADAT-XT
>converters, yes?
>

Actually, Alesis ADAT AD converters varied quite a lot from one unit
to the next. Let's just say that the spec was not very tight. The
Tango may be no better than a good (lucky) ADAT AD, but they will most
likely be a lot better than a bad ADAT AD. You will have to listen
carefully and form your own opinion about your particular Tango24 and
ADAT XT. I like <MY> Tango24 much metter than <MY> ADAT.

>2. Is there a way (without additional equipment) to make the Tango24's ADAT
>outs dither down to 16-bit to record to the ADAT-XT?
>
Just truncate. Dither after mixdown.

Mike T.

[Roger W. Norman]

Don't worry about it. First, truncation isn't the most pleasant of digital
artifacts, but you're going to do a live show and the room noise of AC and
crown, popcorn popper, whatever, will be loud enough that you'll never hear
the truncation.

But to my way of thinking, and my personal experience using a Tascam DA38 on
about 200 live recordings, it's not worth the extra hassle, and I do live
jazz recordings, so there's typically a lot larger dynamic range than one
would find on a normal live rock recording. Just don't try to cram all the
signal you can into the recorder and you should be fine when you bring it
back to mix. -18 dBFS is fine regardless that it's 3 bits down in
resolution.

Of course, it's not all that hard to try it out before you go out. Knowing
what you should expect makes it a little easier to be able to achieve. You
wouldn't walk into a gig with a new amp or gizmo box you've never used
before, right?

I also have a Tango24 and I've not found one good reason to unhook it from
the studio/computer setup and use it with the Tascam. YMMV.

--


Roger W. Norman
SirMusic Studio
Purchase your copy of the Fifth of RAP CD set at www.recaudiopro.net.
See how far $20 really goes.




"shawn" > wrote in message
...
> Anyone?
>
> shawn wrote:
> > Hi. My bassplayer owns a Tango24 (24-bit 8-channel A/D/A box from
> > Frontier Design Group) and an ADAT-XT. We are interested in using
> > the ADAT for some location recording. I have a couple questions for
> > anybody who knows of these things:
> >
> > 1. I assume the Tango24 A/D/A converters are better than the stock
> > ADAT-XT converters, yes?
> >
> > 2. Is there a way (without additional equipment) to make the
> > Tango24's ADAT outs dither down to 16-bit to record to the ADAT-XT?
> >
> > 3. Assuming the answer to question 2 is no, will truncating from
> > 24-bit to 16-bit without dither negate the advantages of using the
> > Tango24?
> >
> > Thanks.
> >
> > -Shawn
>
>

[shawn]

Thanks, Roger.

Roger W. Norman wrote:
> Don't worry about it. First, truncation isn't the most pleasant of
> digital artifacts, but you're going to do a live show and the room
> noise of AC and crown, popcorn popper, whatever, will be loud enough
> that you'll never hear the truncation.
>
> But to my way of thinking, and my personal experience using a Tascam
> DA38 on about 200 live recordings, it's not worth the extra hassle,
> and I do live jazz recordings, so there's typically a lot larger
> dynamic range than one would find on a normal live rock recording.
> Just don't try to cram all the signal you can into the recorder and
> you should be fine when you bring it back to mix. -18 dBFS is fine
> regardless that it's 3 bits down in resolution.
>
> Of course, it's not all that hard to try it out before you go out.
> Knowing what you should expect makes it a little easier to be able to
> achieve. You wouldn't walk into a gig with a new amp or gizmo box
> you've never used before, right?
>
> I also have a Tango24 and I've not found one good reason to unhook it
> from the studio/computer setup and use it with the Tascam. YMMV.
>
>
> "shawn" > wrote in message
> ...
>> Anyone?
>>
>> shawn wrote:
>>> Hi. My bassplayer owns a Tango24 (24-bit 8-channel A/D/A box from
>>> Frontier Design Group) and an ADAT-XT. We are interested in using
>>> the ADAT for some location recording. I have a couple questions for
>>> anybody who knows of these things:
>>>
>>> 1. I assume the Tango24 A/D/A converters are better than the stock
>>> ADAT-XT converters, yes?
>>>
>>> 2. Is there a way (without additional equipment) to make the
>>> Tango24's ADAT outs dither down to 16-bit to record to the ADAT-XT?
>>>
>>> 3. Assuming the answer to question 2 is no, will truncating from
>>> 24-bit to 16-bit without dither negate the advantages of using the
>>> Tango24?
>>>
>>> Thanks.
>>>
>>> -Shawn

[Mike Rivers]

In article > writes:

> 1. I assume the Tango24 A/D/A converters are better than the stock ADAT-XT
> converters, yes?

Yes.

> 2. Is there a way (without additional equipment) to make the Tango24's ADAT
> outs dither down to 16-bit to record to the ADAT-XT?

No, unless there's a setting in the Tango driver for a 16-bit output.
If there isn't, but if there's a setting recording the input at 16-bit
rather than 24-bit resolution (it may be in your recording program),
that might be a reasonable way to go. You'll still be getting the
advantage of the better converters in the Tango.

> 3. Assuming the answer to question 2 is no, will truncating from 24-bit to
> 16-bit without dither negate the advantages of using the Tango24?

Maybe, maybe not. Make some test recordings and draw your own
conclusions. Compare truncating with recording through the Tango in
16-bit resolution and use what sounds best.

Remember, when you're playing back from the ADAT and mixing through an
analog mixer, you'll be hearing the ADAT's D/A converters. Or were you
planning on transferring the ADAT recordings back to the computer and
mixing in a software program?



--
I'm really Mike Rivers - )