A question for the conservatives (2pid and Clyde) [Archive]

MiNe 109

September 6th 08, 02:26 AM

In article
>,
Clyde Slick > wrote:

> On 5 Sep, 18:35, MiNe 109 > wrote:
> > In article
> > >,
> > *Clyde Slick > wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > > On 5 Sep, 12:53, "Shhhh! I'm Listening to Reason!"
> > > > wrote:
> > > > There seems to be a lot of interest in whether Michele Obama is
> > > > "proud", "really proud", or "not proud" of the US. Equally important
> > > > is when John McCain "fell in love with" the US.
> >
> > > > Specifically to 2pid and Clyde, are both of you "always really proud"
> > > > of the US? Do you always believe in "Country first", like the signs
> > > > said at the GOP convention? Do you "love" the US, no matter what she
> > > > does?
> >
> > > I am much more proud of the US than ashamed of it.
> > > We haven't always done the right things, but overall
> > > this nation has been of benefit to the world,
> > > especially in comparison to most other nations.
> >
> > > I was proud of this country since I was a kid,
> > > I didn't have to wait until I was older than 40 years
> > > old to have my first instance of being
> > > proud, or really proud, of the US.
> >
> > I'll guess you didn't grow up as a minority.
> >
>
> You are asserting that blacks and Latinos have less patriotism
> and pride in their country as do white anglo's. Better watch
> it there!!!!! It's quite a nasty bit of racism you
> just put out there.

Am not. If military service is a measure of patriotism, they have more.

Stephen

George M. Middius[_4_]

September 6th 08, 02:31 AM

Clyde Slick said:

> > Whatcha got?
>
> BTW, it was a very good question, so I answered it.

It's not working. You need a new pose.

George M. Middius[_4_]

September 6th 08, 02:32 AM

Mickey McMickey chirped:

> > On the other side of the coin, an essential component of "loving your
> > country" is never admitting there's anything that needs fixing. It's the
> > "conservatives" who excel at that peculiar type of denial.

> That can't be true or Palin would not have found any corrupt persons
> from her own party when she took office, and the record is clear, she
> did find such people and they were dealt with accordingly.

You just love Ms. Palin, don't you, Mickey? She's a hypocrite, a panderer,
a religious extremist, and a fascist. Right smack in your comfort zone.

George M. Middius[_4_]

September 6th 08, 04:31 AM

Clyde Slick said:

> > If I'm wrong, tell us some things in our country that you believe need
> > fixing. I'll start off the list with a couple of pipe dreams that won't
> > happen in our lifetimes:
> >
> > 1. legalizing narcotics
> > 2. universal health care

> I am with you on both, probably we don't agree on the
> mechanism for #2, though. Let's not destroy the system we already
> have.

Whatever.

> legalizing prostitution
> campaign finance reform
> protecting our borders
> giving illegals already here a legal non citizen status
> national law to allow civil unions for same sex relationships
> abolish income taxes and replace them with a VAT consumer tax
> School vouchers, but only where there are failed school systems

Only one of those positions is what I'd call conservative. The others are
progressive. Some are even farsighted.

In what sense do you consider yourself a "conservative"? Your love affair
with Dumbya doesn't qualify you, IMO, because he's radically reactionary
and anti-American.

Clyde Slick

September 6th 08, 04:57 AM

so, you negated your own point, Arny does that, too.

Clyde Slick

September 6th 08, 04:58 AM

On 5 Sep, 21:31, George M. Middius > wrote:
> Clyde Slick said:
>
> > > Whatcha got?
>
> > BTW, it was a very good question, so I answered it.
>
> It's not working. You need a new pose.

as long as I can keep my pants on.

Clyde Slick

September 6th 08, 04:59 AM

On 5 Sep, 23:31, George M. Middius > wrote:
> Clyde Slick said:
>
> > > If I'm wrong, tell us some things in our country that you believe need
> > > fixing. I'll start off the list with a couple of pipe dreams that won't
> > > happen in our lifetimes:
>
> > > 1. legalizing narcotics
> > > 2. universal health care
> > I am with you on both, probably we don't agree on the
> > mechanism for #2, though. Let's not destroy the system we already
> > have.
>
> Whatever.
>
> > legalizing prostitution
> > campaign finance reform
> > protecting our borders
> > giving illegals already here a legal non citizen status
> > national law to allow civil unions for same sex relationships
> > abolish income taxes and replace them with a VAT consumer tax
> > School vouchers, but only where there are failed school systems
>
> Only one of those positions is what I'd call conservative. The others are
> progressive. Some are even farsighted.
>
> In what sense do you consider yourself a "conservative"? Your love affair
> with Dumbya doesn't qualify you, IMO, because he's radically reactionary
> and anti-American.

LOL!!!!
its you and Shhhh! that call me a conservative.

George M. Middius[_4_]

September 6th 08, 06:17 AM

Clyde Slick said:

> > In what sense do you consider yourself a "conservative"? Your love affair
> > with Dumbya doesn't qualify you, IMO, because he's radically reactionary
> > and anti-American.
>
> LOL!!!!
> its you and Shhhh! that call me a conservative.

Ah, we've cleared that up. So your ongoing love affair with Dumbya and his
crooked masters is motivated by .... what?

MiNe 109

September 6th 08, 02:02 PM

In article
>,
Clyde Slick > wrote:

> so, you negated your own point, Arny does that, too.

No, I negated the point you made up.

Stephen

Clyde Slick

September 6th 08, 04:30 PM

On 6 Sep, 09:02, MiNe 109 > wrote:
> In article
> >,
> *Clyde Slick > wrote:
>
> > so, you negated your own point, Arny does that, too.
>
> No, I negated the point you made up.
>

No, I wrote of my pride in the US.
Your response ascribed it to my not being
a minority. Thus, you strongly implied that minorities would
not have pride in the US. I responded to that
by portraying your statement as racist. You responded
by pointing out the prideful military service contributions of
minorities.
SOoooooo, you have been arguing with yourself.
AHA!!! You "DO" agree that minorities have pride in the US.
Very good! You are correct.

MiNe 109

September 6th 08, 05:02 PM

In article
>,
Clyde Slick > wrote:

> On 6 Sep, 09:02, MiNe 109 > wrote:
> > In article
> > >,
> > *Clyde Slick > wrote:
> >
> > > so, you negated your own point, Arny does that, too.
> >
> > No, I negated the point you made up.
> >
>
> No, I wrote of my pride in the US.
> Your response ascribed it to my not being
> a minority.

No, I speculated that you weren't a minority.

> Thus, you strongly implied that minorities would
> not have pride in the US.

You made that up, the same way you made up the bit about Michelle.

> I responded to that
> by portraying your statement as racist. You responded
> by pointing out the prideful military service contributions of
> minorities.
> SOoooooo, you have been arguing with yourself.
> AHA!!! You "DO" agree that minorities have pride in the US.
> Very good! You are correct.

Your strawmen are arguing amongst themselves.

Stephen

Clyde Slick

September 6th 08, 06:29 PM

On 6 Sep, 12:02, MiNe 109 > wrote:
> In article
> >,
> *Clyde Slick > wrote:
>
> > On 6 Sep, 09:02, MiNe 109 * > wrote:
> > > In article
> > > >,
> > > *Clyde Slick > wrote:
>
> > > > so, you negated your own point, Arny does that, too.
>
> > > No, I negated the point you made up.
>
> > No, I wrote of my pride in the US.
> > Your response ascribed it to my not being
> > a minority.
>
> No, I speculated that you weren't a minority.
>

So, you speculated I did n ot grow up as a minority because I had
pride in my country. That means you expet that
minoritiesw have no pride in their country.

> > Thus, you strongly implied that minorities would
> > not have pride in the US.
>
> You made that up, the same way you made up the bit about Michelle.
>

Then there is NO reason for you to
'guess' I did not grow up as a minority.

> > I responded to that
> > by portraying your statement as racist. You responded
> > by pointing out the prideful military service contributions of
> > minorities.
> > SOoooooo, you have been arguing with yourself.
> > AHA!!! You "DO" agree that minorities have pride in the US.
> > Very good! *You are correct.
>
> Your strawmen are arguing amongst themselves.
>

My synopsis is an accurate summary of the conversation

MiNe 109

September 6th 08, 08:10 PM

In article
>,
Clyde Slick > wrote:

> On 6 Sep, 12:02, MiNe 109 > wrote:
> > In article
> > >,
> > *Clyde Slick > wrote:
> >
> > > On 6 Sep, 09:02, MiNe 109 * > wrote:
> > > > In article
> > > > >,
> > > > *Clyde Slick > wrote:
> >
> > > > > so, you negated your own point, Arny does that, too.
> >
> > > > No, I negated the point you made up.
> >
> > > No, I wrote of my pride in the US.
> > > Your response ascribed it to my not being
> > > a minority.
> >
> > No, I speculated that you weren't a minority.
> >
>
> So, you speculated I did n ot grow up as a minority because I had
> pride in my country. That means you expet that
> minoritiesw have no pride in their country.

No, I speculated because you don't seem to understand one
minority-member's view. Admittedly, you could just not understand
regardless of race.

> > > Thus, you strongly implied that minorities would
> > > not have pride in the US.
> >
> > You made that up, the same way you made up the bit about Michelle.
> >
>
>
> Then there is NO reason for you to
> 'guess' I did not grow up as a minority.

Yes, your previous statements.

> > > I responded to that
> > > by portraying your statement as racist. You responded
> > > by pointing out the prideful military service contributions of
> > > minorities.
> > > SOoooooo, you have been arguing with yourself.
> > > AHA!!! You "DO" agree that minorities have pride in the US.
> > > Very good! *You are correct.
> >
> > Your strawmen are arguing amongst themselves.
> >
>
> My synopsis is an accurate summary of the conversation

No, it isn't.

Stephen

Clyde Slick

September 6th 08, 10:02 PM

On 6 Sep, 15:10, MiNe 109 > wrote:
> In article

>
> > So, you speculated I did n ot grow up as a minority because I had
> > pride in my country. That means you expet that
> > minoritiesw have no pride in their country.
>
> No, I speculated because you don't seem to understand one
> minority-member's view. Admittedly, you could just not understand
> regardless of race.
>

HUH?? this is something completely new
to our conversation. Exactly who is this
'mystery man' who's view I don't understand?
Where has he been hiding the last 24 hours?

> > > > Thus, you strongly implied that minorities would
> > > > not have pride in the US.
>
> > > You made that up, the same way you made up the bit about Michelle.
>
> > Then there is NO reason for you to
> > 'guess' I did not grow up as a minority.
>
> Yes, your previous statements.
>

Which ones?
the one's where I expressed pride in America?
You 'guessed' I was not a minority because
I have such pride.
If there was another reason, your were being'duplicitous.

> > > > I responded to that
> > > > by portraying your statement as racist. You responded
> > > > by pointing out the prideful military service contributions of
> > > > minorities.
> > > > SOoooooo, you have been arguing with yourself.
> > > > AHA!!! You "DO" agree that minorities have pride in the US.
> > > > Very good! *You are correct.
>
> > > Your strawmen are arguing amongst themselves.
>
> > My synopsis is an accurate summary of the conversation
>
> No, it isn't.
>

ME:
"I am much more proud of the US than ashamed of it.
We haven't always done the right things, but overall
this nation has been of benefit to the world,
especially in comparison to most other nations. "

"I was proud of this country since I was a kid,
I didn't have to wait until I was older than 40 years
old to have my first instance of being
proud, or really proud, of the US. "

then YOU:

"I'll guess you didn't grow up as a minority."

Steve, If you didn't mean that my pride in America
did not fit your stereotype that minorities
lack pride, please expalin wahtever else one is supposed to get out of
your
statement.

As far as I can tell, you identified me as
a non minority specifically because of my pride in America.

MiNe 109

September 6th 08, 10:36 PM

In article
>,
Clyde Slick > wrote:

> On 6 Sep, 15:10, MiNe 109 > wrote:
> > In article
>
>
> >
> > > So, you speculated I did n ot grow up as a minority because I had
> > > pride in my country. That means you expet that
> > > minoritiesw have no pride in their country.
> >
> > No, I speculated because you don't seem to understand one
> > minority-member's view. Admittedly, you could just not understand
> > regardless of race.
> >
>
> HUH?? this is something completely new
> to our conversation. Exactly who is this
> 'mystery man' who's view I don't understand?
> Where has he been hiding the last 24 hours?

This is inspired by your attacks on Michelle Obama.

> > > > > Thus, you strongly implied that minorities would
> > > > > not have pride in the US.
> >
> > > > You made that up, the same way you made up the bit about Michelle.
> >
> > > Then there is NO reason for you to
> > > 'guess' I did not grow up as a minority.
> >
> > Yes, your previous statements.
> >
>
>
> Which ones?
> the one's where I expressed pride in America?
> You 'guessed' I was not a minority because
> I have such pride.
> If there was another reason, your were being'duplicitous.

Your attacks on Michelle Obama.

> > > > > I responded to that
> > > > > by portraying your statement as racist. You responded
> > > > > by pointing out the prideful military service contributions of
> > > > > minorities.
> > > > > SOoooooo, you have been arguing with yourself.
> > > > > AHA!!! You "DO" agree that minorities have pride in the US.
> > > > > Very good! *You are correct.
> >
> > > > Your strawmen are arguing amongst themselves.
> >
> > > My synopsis is an accurate summary of the conversation
> >
> > No, it isn't.
> >
>
>
> ME:
> "I am much more proud of the US than ashamed of it.
> We haven't always done the right things, but overall
> this nation has been of benefit to the world,
> especially in comparison to most other nations. "
>
>
> "I was proud of this country since I was a kid,
> I didn't have to wait until I was older than 40 years
> old to have my first instance of being
> proud, or really proud, of the US. "
>
> then YOU:
>
> "I'll guess you didn't grow up as a minority."
>
> Steve, If you didn't mean that my pride in America
> did not fit your stereotype that minorities
> lack pride, please expalin wahtever else one is supposed to get out of
> your
> statement.

I'm not interested in the "pride: yes or no" question. You twisted an
expression of pride, Michelle being "really proud," into its opposite,
that if she were "really proud" at one point in time she couldn't have
been proud before or that she must have "despised" America.

Minorities have more personal experience with some of the things wrong
with the USA by definition, and it's not racism to say so.

> As far as I can tell, you identified me as
> a non minority specifically because of my pride in America.

No, because of how you expressed this thought as a contrast to Michelle
Obama's statement.

Stephen

Clyde Slick

September 7th 08, 02:03 AM

On 6 Sep, 17:36, MiNe 109 > wrote:
> In article
> >,
> *Clyde Slick > wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On 6 Sep, 15:10, MiNe 109 * > wrote:
> > > In article
>
> > > > So, you speculated I did n ot grow up as a minority because I had
> > > > pride in my country. That means you expet that
> > > > minoritiesw have no pride in their country.
>
> > > No, I speculated because you don't seem to understand one
> > > minority-member's view. Admittedly, you could just not understand
> > > regardless of race.
>
> > HUH?? this is something completely new
> > to our conversation. Exactly who is this
> > 'mystery man' who's view I don't understand?
> > Where has he been hiding the last 24 hours?
>
> This is inspired by your attacks on Michelle Obama.
>

I am gald you admit she lacks pride in Maerica, and explain it'
by her having grown up black.
Still, your racist implications stand.
That one should not expect blacks to have pride in America

>
>
>
>
> > > > > > Thus, you strongly implied that minorities would
> > > > > > not have pride in the US.
>
> > > > > You made that up, the same way you made up the bit about Michelle..
>
> > > > Then there is NO reason for you to
> > > > 'guess' I did not grow up as a minority.
>
> > > Yes, your previous statements.
>
> > Which ones?
> > the one's where I expressed pride in America?
> > You 'guessed' I was not a minority because
> > I have such pride.
> > If there was another reason, your were being'duplicitous.
>
> Your attacks on Michelle Obama.
>
>
>
>
>
> > > > > > I responded to that
> > > > > > by portraying your statement as racist. You responded
> > > > > > by pointing out the prideful military service contributions of
> > > > > > minorities.
> > > > > > SOoooooo, you have been arguing with yourself.
> > > > > > AHA!!! You "DO" agree that minorities have pride in the US.
> > > > > > Very good! *You are correct.
>
> > > > > Your strawmen are arguing amongst themselves.
>
> > > > My synopsis is an accurate summary of the conversation
>
> > > No, it isn't.
>
> > ME:
> > "I am much more proud of the US than ashamed of it.
> > * We haven't always done the right things, but overall
> > * this nation has been of benefit to the world,
> > *especially in comparison to most other nations. "
>
> > * "I was proud of this country since I was a kid,
> > *I didn't have to wait until I was older than 40 years
> > * old to have my first instance of being
> > * proud, or really proud, of the US. "
>
> > then YOU:
>
> > "I'll guess you didn't grow up as a minority."
>
> > Steve, If you didn't mean that my pride in America
> > did not fit your stereotype that minorities
> > lack pride, please expalin wahtever else one is supposed to get out of
> > your
> > statement.
>
> I'm not interested in the "pride: yes or no" question. You twisted an
> expression of pride, Michelle being "really proud," into its opposite,
> that if she were "really proud" at one point in time she couldn't have
> been proud before or that she must have "despised" America.
>
> Minorities have more personal experience with some of the things wrong
> with the USA by definition, and it's not racism to say so.
>
> > As far as I can tell, you identified me as
> > a non minority specifically because of my pride in America.
>
> No, because of how you expressed this thought as a contrast to Michelle
> Obama's statement.
>

ok, you are admitting she lacks pride in America.
and STILL saying that growing up black
implies an expectation that blacks do
\not have pride in Maerica,.
And still, you hold a racist stereotype.

I think you need a few sessions at
Trinity Church to exorcise your massive white
guilt.

MiNe 109

September 7th 08, 04:19 AM

In article
>,
Clyde Slick > wrote:

> On 6 Sep, 17:36, MiNe 109 > wrote:
> > In article
> > >,
> > *Clyde Slick > wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > > On 6 Sep, 15:10, MiNe 109 * > wrote:
> > > > In article
> >
> > > > > So, you speculated I did n ot grow up as a minority because I had
> > > > > pride in my country. That means you expet that
> > > > > minoritiesw have no pride in their country.
> >
> > > > No, I speculated because you don't seem to understand one
> > > > minority-member's view. Admittedly, you could just not understand
> > > > regardless of race.
> >
> > > HUH?? this is something completely new
> > > to our conversation. Exactly who is this
> > > 'mystery man' who's view I don't understand?
> > > Where has he been hiding the last 24 hours?
> >
> > This is inspired by your attacks on Michelle Obama.
> >
>
> I am gald you admit she lacks pride in Maerica, and explain it'
> by her having grown up black.

No, that's your twisting of her words to which I object.

> Still, your racist implications stand.

Nope.

> That one should not expect blacks to have pride in America

And yet she's really proud of America.

> > > > > > > Thus, you strongly implied that minorities would
> > > > > > > not have pride in the US.
> >
> > > > > > You made that up, the same way you made up the bit about Michelle.
> >
> > > > > Then there is NO reason for you to
> > > > > 'guess' I did not grow up as a minority.
> >
> > > > Yes, your previous statements.
> >
> > > Which ones?
> > > the one's where I expressed pride in America?
> > > You 'guessed' I was not a minority because
> > > I have such pride.
> > > If there was another reason, your were being'duplicitous.
> >
> > Your attacks on Michelle Obama.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > > > > > > I responded to that
> > > > > > > by portraying your statement as racist. You responded
> > > > > > > by pointing out the prideful military service contributions of
> > > > > > > minorities.
> > > > > > > SOoooooo, you have been arguing with yourself.
> > > > > > > AHA!!! You "DO" agree that minorities have pride in the US.
> > > > > > > Very good! *You are correct.
> >
> > > > > > Your strawmen are arguing amongst themselves.
> >
> > > > > My synopsis is an accurate summary of the conversation
> >
> > > > No, it isn't.
> >
> > > ME:
> > > "I am much more proud of the US than ashamed of it.
> > > * We haven't always done the right things, but overall
> > > * this nation has been of benefit to the world,
> > > *especially in comparison to most other nations. "
> >
> > > * "I was proud of this country since I was a kid,
> > > *I didn't have to wait until I was older than 40 years
> > > * old to have my first instance of being
> > > * proud, or really proud, of the US. "
> >
> > > then YOU:
> >
> > > "I'll guess you didn't grow up as a minority."
> >
> > > Steve, If you didn't mean that my pride in America
> > > did not fit your stereotype that minorities
> > > lack pride, please expalin wahtever else one is supposed to get out of
> > > your
> > > statement.
> >
> > I'm not interested in the "pride: yes or no" question. You twisted an
> > expression of pride, Michelle being "really proud," into its opposite,
> > that if she were "really proud" at one point in time she couldn't have
> > been proud before or that she must have "despised" America.
> >
> > Minorities have more personal experience with some of the things wrong
> > with the USA by definition, and it's not racism to say so.
> >
> > > As far as I can tell, you identified me as
> > > a non minority specifically because of my pride in America.
> >
> > No, because of how you expressed this thought as a contrast to Michelle
> > Obama's statement.
> >
>
> ok, you are admitting she lacks pride in America.

No, you asserted it.

> and STILL saying that growing up black
> implies an expectation that blacks do
> \not have pride in Maerica,.
> And still, you hold a racist stereotype.

As opposed to pretending there's no race or class strife.

> I think you need a few sessions at
> Trinity Church to exorcise your massive white
> guilt.

I think you need curb your word-twisting hobby.

Stephen

Clyde Slick

September 7th 08, 06:17 AM

On 6 Sep, 23:19, MiNe 109 > wrote:
> In article
> >,
> *Clyde Slick > wrote:
>

> > > > HUH?? this is something completely new
> > > > to our conversation. Exactly who is this
> > > > 'mystery man' who's view I don't understand?
> > > > Where has he been hiding the last 24 hours?
>
> > > This is inspired by your attacks on Michelle Obama.
>
> > I am gald you admit she lacks pride in Maerica, and explain it'
> > by her having grown up black.
>
> No, that's your twisting of her words to which I object.
>

Which ones, the first time when she said Its the first
time she was proud of America or the second time, when she said
Its the first time she was really proud of America. I have seen the
video
of both. I didn't twist her words, she said what she said.
She is a little something over 40 myears old
and she hasn't been proud of America until her
husbaqnd was going to be nominated to run for
President. Even at that, her 'recent' pride
is quite self centered, arrogant, and egotisitcal.
Her pride in America does not follow from America's ideals, its
history,
its successes, its trials, its shining moments, it's
Constitution, its freedoms. No, her suddenly developed
pride comes form her own spouse's individual accomplishment.

> > Still, your racist implications stand.
>
> Nope.
>
> > That one should not expect blacks to have pride in America
>
> And yet she's really proud of America.
>
>

A newbie! and only because her husband was going to be nominated.
How slef centered she is.

> >
> > > No, because of how you expressed this thought as a contrast to Michelle
> > > Obama's statement.
>
> > ok, you are admitting she lacks pride in America.
>

> No, you asserted it.
>

Lordy!!! You just said it was a "contrast" to my own statement
discussing my pruide in AMerica. the "contrast" is that
I have pride and she lacks it.
You are the one who described our statements as contrasting!

> > and STILL saying that growing up black
> > implies an expectation that blacks do
> > \not have pride in Maerica,.
> > And still, you hold a racist stereotype.
>
> As opposed to pretending there's no race or class strife.
>

So, in your mind, because of societal strife, we should not have
the expectation that black people would have pride in America.
I note that you, like most other racists, have lower expectations
and inferior stereotypes for black people.

You need to develop your self awareness of your massive guilt
of being just another racist evil white person.
Going to a black liberation church can help
you cast off your self hated whiteness, atone for your sins, and
become black.

Says the founder Cone and the current proponent White:

"The black intellectual's goal, says Cone, is to "aid in the
destruction of
America as he knows it." Such destruction requires both black anger
and white guilt. The black-power theologian's goal is to tell the
story
of American oppression so powerfully and precisely that white men
will "tremble, curse, and go mad, because they will be drenched with
the filth of their evil." In the preface to his 1970 book, A Black
Theology
of Liberation, Wright wrote: "There will be no peace in America until
whites
begin to hate their whiteness, asking from the depths of their being:
'How can we become black?'""

try to find one in your area

MiNe 109

September 7th 08, 10:21 AM

In article
>,
Clyde Slick > wrote:

> On 6 Sep, 23:19, MiNe 109 > wrote:
> > In article
> > >,
> > *Clyde Slick > wrote:
> >
>
> > > > > HUH?? this is something completely new
> > > > > to our conversation. Exactly who is this
> > > > > 'mystery man' who's view I don't understand?
> > > > > Where has he been hiding the last 24 hours?
> >
> > > > This is inspired by your attacks on Michelle Obama.
> >
> > > I am gald you admit she lacks pride in Maerica, and explain it'
> > > by her having grown up black.
> >
> > No, that's your twisting of her words to which I object.
> >
>
> Which ones, the first time when she said Its the first
> time she was proud of America or the second time, when she said
> Its the first time she was really proud of America. I have seen the
> video
> of both. I didn't twist her words, she said what she said.

Yes, you twisted her words in both cases.

> She is a little something over 40 myears old
> and she hasn't been proud of America until her
> husbaqnd was going to be nominated to run for
> President. Even at that, her 'recent' pride
> is quite self centered, arrogant, and egotisitcal.
> Her pride in America does not follow from America's ideals, its
> history,
> its successes, its trials, its shining moments, it's
> Constitution, its freedoms. No, her suddenly developed
> pride comes form her own spouse's individual accomplishment.

No, that's your cynical twist. Her remarks came in the context of the
reality of a major political party choosing between a woman and a black
man, something considered impossible within recent memory.

It's like the difference between a life-long Christian and one
born-again. Think of her as a born-again patriot.

> > > Still, your racist implications stand.
> >
> > Nope.
> >
> > > That one should not expect blacks to have pride in America
> >
> > And yet she's really proud of America.
> >
> >
>
> A newbie! and only because her husband was going to be nominated.
> How slef centered she is.

Only someone looking for a partisan attack would interpret her remarks
that way.

> > > > No, because of how you expressed this thought as a contrast to Michelle
> > > > Obama's statement.
> >
> > > ok, you are admitting she lacks pride in America.
> >
>
> > No, you asserted it.
> >
>
> Lordy!!! You just said it was a "contrast" to my own statement
> discussing my pruide in AMerica. the "contrast" is that
> I have pride and she lacks it.
> You are the one who described our statements as contrasting!

The contrast is all on your part. You aren't attacking McCain for not
"really loving" America.

> > > and STILL saying that growing up black
> > > implies an expectation that blacks do
> > > \not have pride in Maerica,.
> > > And still, you hold a racist stereotype.
> >
> > As opposed to pretending there's no race or class strife.
> >
>
> So, in your mind, because of societal strife, we should not have
> the expectation that black people would have pride in America.
> I note that you, like most other racists, have lower expectations
> and inferior stereotypes for black people.

Your definition of "racist" is broken.

> You need to develop your self awareness of your massive guilt
> of being just another racist evil white person.
> Going to a black liberation church can help
> you cast off your self hated whiteness, atone for your sins, and
> become black.

Your lack of personal responsibility doesn't mean there's no societal
responsibility.

> Says the founder Cone and the current proponent White:
>
> "The black intellectual's goal, says Cone, is to "aid in the
> destruction of
> America as he knows it." Such destruction requires both black anger
> and white guilt. The black-power theologian's goal is to tell the
> story
> of American oppression so powerfully and precisely that white men
> will "tremble, curse, and go mad, because they will be drenched with
> the filth of their evil." In the preface to his 1970 book, A Black
> Theology
> of Liberation, Wright wrote: "There will be no peace in America until
> whites
> begin to hate their whiteness, asking from the depths of their being:
> 'How can we become black?'""
>
>
> try to find one in your area

1970, eh? Think of it, someone raised in such an environment is now
"really proud" of America. A real patriot would celebrate the return of
the prodigal.

Stephen

Clyde Slick

September 7th 08, 03:12 PM

On 7 Sep, 05:21, MiNe 109 > wrote:
> In article
> >,
> *Clyde Slick > wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On 6 Sep, 23:19, MiNe 109 * > wrote:
> > > In article
> > > >,
> > > *Clyde Slick > wrote:
>
> > > > > > HUH?? this is something completely new
> > > > > > to our conversation. Exactly who is this
> > > > > > 'mystery man' who's view I don't understand?
> > > > > > Where has he been hiding the last 24 hours?
>
> > > > > This is inspired by your attacks on Michelle Obama.
>
> > > > I am gald you admit she lacks pride in Maerica, and explain it'
> > > > by her having grown up black.
>
> > > No, that's your twisting of her words to which I object.
>
> > Which ones, the first time when she said Its the first
> > time she was proud of America or the second time, when she said
> > Its the first time she was really proud of America. I have seen the
> > video
> > of both. I didn't twist her words, she said what she said.
>
> Yes

"First time" You just can't comprehend "First time".
the lady is 44 years old

> > She is a little something over 40 myears old
> > and she hasn't been proud of America until her
> > husbaqnd was going to be nominated to run for
> > President. Even at that, her 'recent' pride
> > is quite self centered, arrogant, and egotisitcal.
> > Her pride in America does not follow from America's ideals, its
> > history,
> > its successes, its trials, its shining moments, it's
> > Constitution, its freedoms. No, her suddenly developed
> > pride comes form her own spouse's individual accomplishment.
>
> No, that's your cynical twist. Her remarks came in the context of the
> reality of a major political party choosing between a woman and a black
> man, something considered impossible within recent memory.
>
> It's like the difference between a life-long Christian and one
> born-again. Think of her as a born-again patriot.
>

It's the "First time" she was proud.
That means that she was never proud before.

> > > > Still, your racist implications stand.
>
> > > Nope.
>
> > > > That one should not expect blacks to have pride in America
>
> > > And yet she's really proud of America.
>
> > A newbie! and only because her husband was going to be nominated.
> > How slef centered she is.
>
> Only someone looking for a partisan attack would interpret her remarks
> that way.
>

> > > > > No, because of how you expressed this thought as a contrast to Michelle
> > > > > Obama's statement.
>
> > > > ok, you are admitting she lacks pride in America.
>
> > > No, you asserted it.
>
> > Lordy!!! You just said it was a "contrast" to my own statement
> > discussing my pruide in AMerica. the "contrast" is that
> > I have pride and she lacks it.
> > You are the one who described our statements as contrasting!
>
> The contrast is all on your part. You aren't attacking McCain for not
> "really loving" America.
>
> > > > and STILL saying that growing up black
> > > > implies an expectation that blacks do
> > > > \not have pride in Maerica,.
> > > > And still, you hold a racist stereotype.
>
> > > As opposed to pretending there's no race or class strife.
>
> > So, in your mind, because of societal strife, we should not have
> > the expectation that black people would have pride in America.
> > I note that you, like most other racists, have lower expectations
> > and inferior stereotypes for black people.
>
> Your definition of "racist" is broken.
>
> > You need to develop *your self awareness of your massive guilt
> > of being just another racist evil white person.
> > Going to a black liberation church can help
> > you cast off your self hated whiteness, atone for your sins, and
> > become black.
>
> Your lack of personal responsibility doesn't mean there's no societal
> responsibility.
>
>
>
>
>
> > Says the founder Cone and the current proponent White:
>
> > "The black intellectual's goal, says Cone, is to "aid in the
> > destruction of
> > America as he knows it." Such destruction requires both black anger
> > and white guilt. The black-power theologian's goal is to tell the
> > story
> > of American oppression so powerfully and precisely that white men
> > will "tremble, curse, and go mad, because they will be drenched with
> > the filth of their evil." In the preface to his 1970 book, A Black
> > Theology
> > of Liberation, Wright wrote: "There will be no peace in America until
> > whites
> > begin to hate their whiteness, asking from the depths of their being:
> > 'How can we become black?'""
>
> > try to find one in your area
>
> 1970, eh? Think of it, someone raised in such an environment is now
> "really proud" of America. A real patriot would celebrate the return of
> the prodigal.
>

I am waiting for "the first time" you accept reality.

Shhhh! I'm Listening to Reason!

September 7th 08, 08:13 PM

On Sep 6, 8:03*pm, Clyde Slick > wrote:

> I think you need a few sessions at
> Trinity Church to exorcise your massive white
> guilt.

Clyde has been taking 2pid pills.

Shhhh! I'm Listening to Reason!

September 7th 08, 08:21 PM

On Sep 7, 9:12*am, Clyde Slick > wrote:
> On 7 Sep, 05:21, MiNe 109 * > wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > In article
> > >,
> > *Clyde Slick > wrote:
>
> > > On 6 Sep, 23:19, MiNe 109 * > wrote:
> > > > In article
> > > > >,
> > > > *Clyde Slick > wrote:
>
> > > > > > > HUH?? this is something completely new
> > > > > > > to our conversation. Exactly who is this
> > > > > > > 'mystery man' who's view I don't understand?
> > > > > > > Where has he been hiding the last 24 hours?
>
> > > > > > This is inspired by your attacks on Michelle Obama.
>
> > > > > I am gald you admit she lacks pride in Maerica, and explain it'
> > > > > by her having grown up black.
>
> > > > No, that's your twisting of her words to which I object.
>
> > > Which ones, the first time when she said Its the first
> > > time she was proud of America or the second time, when she said
> > > Its the first time she was really proud of America. I have seen the
> > > video
> > > of both. I didn't twist her words, she said what she said.
>
> > Yes
>
> "First time" You just can't comprehend "First time".
> the lady is 44 years old
>
>
>
>
>
> > > She is a little something over 40 myears old
> > > and she hasn't been proud of America until her
> > > husbaqnd was going to be nominated to run for
> > > President. Even at that, her 'recent' pride
> > > is quite self centered, arrogant, and egotisitcal.
> > > Her pride in America does not follow from America's ideals, its
> > > history,
> > > its successes, its trials, its shining moments, it's
> > > Constitution, its freedoms. No, her suddenly developed
> > > pride comes form her own spouse's individual accomplishment.
>
> > No, that's your cynical twist. Her remarks came in the context of the
> > reality of a major political party choosing between a woman and a black
> > man, something considered impossible within recent memory.
>
> > It's like the difference between a life-long Christian and one
> > born-again. Think of her as a born-again patriot.
>
> It's the "First time" she was proud.
> That means that she was never proud before.

Man, no wonder you are a friend of 2pid's.

> > > > > Still, your racist implications stand.
>
> > > > Nope.
>
> > > > > That one should not expect blacks to have pride in America
>
> > > > And yet she's really proud of America.
>
> > > A newbie! and only because her husband was going to be nominated.
> > > How slef centered she is.
>
> > Only someone looking for a partisan attack would interpret her remarks
> > that way.
>
> > > > > > No, because of how you expressed this thought as a contrast to Michelle
> > > > > > Obama's statement.
>
> > > > > ok, you are admitting she lacks pride in America.
>
> > > > No, you asserted it.
>
> > > Lordy!!! You just said it was a "contrast" to my own statement
> > > discussing my pruide in AMerica. the "contrast" is that
> > > I have pride and she lacks it.
> > > You are the one who described our statements as contrasting!
>
> > The contrast is all on your part. You aren't attacking McCain for not
> > "really loving" America.
>
> > > > > and STILL saying that growing up black
> > > > > implies an expectation that blacks do
> > > > > \not have pride in Maerica,.
> > > > > And still, you hold a racist stereotype.
>
> > > > As opposed to pretending there's no race or class strife.
>
> > > So, in your mind, because of societal strife, we should not have
> > > the expectation that black people would have pride in America.
> > > I note that you, like most other racists, have lower expectations
> > > and inferior stereotypes for black people.
>
> > Your definition of "racist" is broken.
>
> > > You need to develop *your self awareness of your massive guilt
> > > of being just another racist evil white person.
> > > Going to a black liberation church can help
> > > you cast off your self hated whiteness, atone for your sins, and
> > > become black.
>
> > Your lack of personal responsibility doesn't mean there's no societal
> > responsibility.
>
> > > Says the founder Cone and the current proponent White:
>
> > > "The black intellectual's goal, says Cone, is to "aid in the
> > > destruction of
> > > America as he knows it." Such destruction requires both black anger
> > > and white guilt. The black-power theologian's goal is to tell the
> > > story
> > > of American oppression so powerfully and precisely that white men
> > > will "tremble, curse, and go mad, because they will be drenched with
> > > the filth of their evil." In the preface to his 1970 book, A Black
> > > Theology
> > > of Liberation, Wright wrote: "There will be no peace in America until
> > > whites
> > > begin to hate their whiteness, asking from the depths of their being:
> > > 'How can we become black?'""
>
> > > try to find one in your area
>
> > 1970, eh? Think of it, someone raised in such an environment is now
> > "really proud" of America. A real patriot would celebrate the return of
> > the prodigal.
>
> I am waiting for "the first time" you accept reality.

If you're going to quote, best not go off memory, Clyde. Yours seems a
little off:

"What we have learned over this year is that hope is making a
comeback. It is making a comeback. And let me tell you something --
for the first time in my adult lifetime, I am really proud of my
country. And not just because Barack has done well, but because I
think people are hungry for change. And I have been desperate to see
our country moving in that direction and just not feeling so alone in
my frustration and disappointment. I've seen people who are hungry to
be unified around some basic common issues, and it's made me proud."

You are saying "ever". She did not say that. You say she wasn't proud.
She was proud, but now she's "really proud". And you are also wrong to
assert that it's because Obama has done well. She specifically
addresses that.

Now quit twisting words and go back to your beer. And remember: "This
is your brain on beer, this is what happens to your brain when you mix
beer and stupid pills."

MiNe 109

September 7th 08, 08:34 PM

In article
>,
Clyde Slick > wrote:

> On 7 Sep, 05:21, MiNe 109 > wrote:
> > In article
> > >,
> > *Clyde Slick > wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > > On 6 Sep, 23:19, MiNe 109 * > wrote:
> > > > In article
> > > > >,
> > > > *Clyde Slick > wrote:
> >
> > > > > > > HUH?? this is something completely new
> > > > > > > to our conversation. Exactly who is this
> > > > > > > 'mystery man' who's view I don't understand?
> > > > > > > Where has he been hiding the last 24 hours?
> >
> > > > > > This is inspired by your attacks on Michelle Obama.
> >
> > > > > I am gald you admit she lacks pride in Maerica, and explain it'
> > > > > by her having grown up black.
> >
> > > > No, that's your twisting of her words to which I object.
> >
> > > Which ones, the first time when she said Its the first
> > > time she was proud of America or the second time, when she said
> > > Its the first time she was really proud of America. I have seen the
> > > video
> > > of both. I didn't twist her words, she said what she said.
> >
> > Yes
>
> "First time" You just can't comprehend "First time".
> the lady is 44 years old

Either way, you're twisting her words.

> > > She is a little something over 40 myears old
> > > and she hasn't been proud of America until her
> > > husbaqnd was going to be nominated to run for
> > > President. Even at that, her 'recent' pride
> > > is quite self centered, arrogant, and egotisitcal.
> > > Her pride in America does not follow from America's ideals, its
> > > history,
> > > its successes, its trials, its shining moments, it's
> > > Constitution, its freedoms. No, her suddenly developed
> > > pride comes form her own spouse's individual accomplishment.
> >
> > No, that's your cynical twist. Her remarks came in the context of the
> > reality of a major political party choosing between a woman and a black
> > man, something considered impossible within recent memory.
> >
> > It's like the difference between a life-long Christian and one
> > born-again. Think of her as a born-again patriot.
> >
>
> It's the "First time" she was proud.
> That means that she was never proud before.

I think you're taking her too literally.

> > > > > Still, your racist implications stand.
> >
> > > > Nope.
> >
> > > > > That one should not expect blacks to have pride in America
> >
> > > > And yet she's really proud of America.
> >
> > > A newbie! and only because her husband was going to be nominated.
> > > How slef centered she is.
> >
> > Only someone looking for a partisan attack would interpret her remarks
> > that way.
> >
>
> > > > > > No, because of how you expressed this thought as a contrast to
> > > > > > Michelle
> > > > > > Obama's statement.
> >
> > > > > ok, you are admitting she lacks pride in America.
> >
> > > > No, you asserted it.
> >
> > > Lordy!!! You just said it was a "contrast" to my own statement
> > > discussing my pruide in AMerica. the "contrast" is that
> > > I have pride and she lacks it.
> > > You are the one who described our statements as contrasting!
> >
> > The contrast is all on your part. You aren't attacking McCain for not
> > "really loving" America.
> >
> > > > > and STILL saying that growing up black
> > > > > implies an expectation that blacks do
> > > > > \not have pride in Maerica,.
> > > > > And still, you hold a racist stereotype.
> >
> > > > As opposed to pretending there's no race or class strife.
> >
> > > So, in your mind, because of societal strife, we should not have
> > > the expectation that black people would have pride in America.
> > > I note that you, like most other racists, have lower expectations
> > > and inferior stereotypes for black people.
> >
> > Your definition of "racist" is broken.
> >
> > > You need to develop *your self awareness of your massive guilt
> > > of being just another racist evil white person.
> > > Going to a black liberation church can help
> > > you cast off your self hated whiteness, atone for your sins, and
> > > become black.
> >
> > Your lack of personal responsibility doesn't mean there's no societal
> > responsibility.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > > Says the founder Cone and the current proponent White:
> >
> > > "The black intellectual's goal, says Cone, is to "aid in the
> > > destruction of
> > > America as he knows it." Such destruction requires both black anger
> > > and white guilt. The black-power theologian's goal is to tell the
> > > story
> > > of American oppression so powerfully and precisely that white men
> > > will "tremble, curse, and go mad, because they will be drenched with
> > > the filth of their evil." In the preface to his 1970 book, A Black
> > > Theology
> > > of Liberation, Wright wrote: "There will be no peace in America until
> > > whites
> > > begin to hate their whiteness, asking from the depths of their being:
> > > 'How can we become black?'""
> >
> > > try to find one in your area
> >
> > 1970, eh? Think of it, someone raised in such an environment is now
> > "really proud" of America. A real patriot would celebrate the return of
> > the prodigal.
> >
>
> I am waiting for "the first time" you accept reality.

Been there, done that.

Stephen

Shhhh! I'm Listening to Reason!

September 7th 08, 09:04 PM

On Sep 7, 2:34*pm, MiNe 109 > wrote:
> In article
> >,
> *Clyde Slick > wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On 7 Sep, 05:21, MiNe 109 * > wrote:
> > > In article
> > > >,
> > > *Clyde Slick > wrote:
>
> > > > On 6 Sep, 23:19, MiNe 109 * > wrote:
> > > > > In article
> > > > > >,
> > > > > *Clyde Slick > wrote:
>
> > > > > > > > HUH?? this is something completely new
> > > > > > > > to our conversation. Exactly who is this
> > > > > > > > 'mystery man' who's view I don't understand?
> > > > > > > > Where has he been hiding the last 24 hours?
>
> > > > > > > This is inspired by your attacks on Michelle Obama.
>
> > > > > > I am gald you admit she lacks pride in Maerica, and explain it'
> > > > > > by her having grown up black.
>
> > > > > No, that's your twisting of her words to which I object.
>
> > > > Which ones, the first time when she said Its the first
> > > > time she was proud of America or the second time, when she said
> > > > Its the first time she was really proud of America. I have seen the
> > > > video
> > > > of both. I didn't twist her words, she said what she said.
>
> > > Yes
>
> > "First time" You just can't comprehend "First time".
> > the lady is 44 years old
>
> Either way, you're twisting her words.
>
>
>
>
>
> > > > She is a little something over 40 myears old
> > > > and she hasn't been proud of America until her
> > > > husbaqnd was going to be nominated to run for
> > > > President. Even at that, her 'recent' pride
> > > > is quite self centered, arrogant, and egotisitcal.
> > > > Her pride in America does not follow from America's ideals, its
> > > > history,
> > > > its successes, its trials, its shining moments, it's
> > > > Constitution, its freedoms. No, her suddenly developed
> > > > pride comes form her own spouse's individual accomplishment.
>
> > > No, that's your cynical twist. Her remarks came in the context of the
> > > reality of a major political party choosing between a woman and a black
> > > man, something considered impossible within recent memory.
>
> > > It's like the difference between a life-long Christian and one
> > > born-again. Think of her as a born-again patriot.
>
> > It's the "First time" she was proud.
> > That means that she was never proud before.
>
> I think you're taking her too literally.

She said "For the first time in my adult life", not Clyde's butchery
of what she said.

I'll accept that she meant it literally, in the context given
(politics).

If she's 44, and "adult life" starts at 18, that means 26 years. 26
years ago (1982) the republicans had started decimating the country
under Reagan. Since then, we have had the "republican revolution",
expensive witch hunts over Clinton's Whitewater dealings, which turned
up nothing, extreme partisanship initiated by the "no compromises, no
prisoners" republican party and the bushie/cheney disasters of the
last eight years (how often were they even *mentioned* at the GOP
convention? LOL!).

In the context of what she said (people coming together for common
issues, having hope for a better future, etc.) what she said makes
perfect sense, unless your thought process is clouded by ideology,
racism, or beer and stupid pills.

Clyde Slick

September 7th 08, 11:00 PM

On 7 Sep, 15:21, "Shhhh! I'm Listening to Reason!"
> wrote:
> On Sep 7, 9:12*am, Clyde Slick > wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On 7 Sep, 05:21, MiNe 109 * > wrote:
>
> > > In article
> > > >,
> > > *Clyde Slick > wrote:
>
> > > > On 6 Sep, 23:19, MiNe 109 * > wrote:
> > > > > In article
> > > > > >,
> > > > > *Clyde Slick > wrote:
>
> > > > > > > > HUH?? this is something completely new
> > > > > > > > to our conversation. Exactly who is this
> > > > > > > > 'mystery man' who's view I don't understand?
> > > > > > > > Where has he been hiding the last 24 hours?
>
> > > > > > > This is inspired by your attacks on Michelle Obama.
>
> > > > > > I am gald you admit she lacks pride in Maerica, and explain it'
> > > > > > by her having grown up black.
>
> > > > > No, that's your twisting of her words to which I object.
>
> > > > Which ones, the first time when she said Its the first
> > > > time she was proud of America or the second time, when she said
> > > > Its the first time she was really proud of America. I have seen the
> > > > video
> > > > of both. I didn't twist her words, she said what she said.
>
> > > Yes
>
> > "First time" You just can't comprehend "First time".
> > the lady is 44 years old
>
> > > > She is a little something over 40 myears old
> > > > and she hasn't been proud of America until her
> > > > husbaqnd was going to be nominated to run for
> > > > President. Even at that, her 'recent' pride
> > > > is quite self centered, arrogant, and egotisitcal.
> > > > Her pride in America does not follow from America's ideals, its
> > > > history,
> > > > its successes, its trials, its shining moments, it's
> > > > Constitution, its freedoms. No, her suddenly developed
> > > > pride comes form her own spouse's individual accomplishment.
>
> > > No, that's your cynical twist. Her remarks came in the context of the
> > > reality of a major political party choosing between a woman and a black
> > > man, something considered impossible within recent memory.
>
> > > It's like the difference between a life-long Christian and one
> > > born-again. Think of her as a born-again patriot.
>
> > It's the "First time" she was proud.
> > That means that she was never proud before.
>
> Man, no wonder you are a friend of 2pid's.
>
>
>
>
>
> > > > > > Still, your racist implications stand.
>
> > > > > Nope.
>
> > > > > > That one should not expect blacks to have pride in America
>
> > > > > And yet she's really proud of America.
>
> > > > A newbie! and only because her husband was going to be nominated.
> > > > How slef centered she is.
>
> > > Only someone looking for a partisan attack would interpret her remarks
> > > that way.
>
> > > > > > > No, because of how you expressed this thought as a contrast to Michelle
> > > > > > > Obama's statement.
>
> > > > > > ok, you are admitting she lacks pride in America.
>
> > > > > No, you asserted it.
>
> > > > Lordy!!! You just said it was a "contrast" to my own statement
> > > > discussing my pruide in AMerica. the "contrast" is that
> > > > I have pride and she lacks it.
> > > > You are the one who described our statements as contrasting!
>
> > > The contrast is all on your part. You aren't attacking McCain for not
> > > "really loving" America.
>
> > > > > > and STILL saying that growing up black
> > > > > > implies an expectation that blacks do
> > > > > > \not have pride in Maerica,.
> > > > > > And still, you hold a racist stereotype.
>
> > > > > As opposed to pretending there's no race or class strife.
>
> > > > So, in your mind, because of societal strife, we should not have
> > > > the expectation that black people would have pride in America.
> > > > I note that you, like most other racists, have lower expectations
> > > > and inferior stereotypes for black people.
>
> > > Your definition of "racist" is broken.
>
> > > > You need to develop *your self awareness of your massive guilt
> > > > of being just another racist evil white person.
> > > > Going to a black liberation church can help
> > > > you cast off your self hated whiteness, atone for your sins, and
> > > > become black.
>
> > > Your lack of personal responsibility doesn't mean there's no societal
> > > responsibility.
>
> > > > Says the founder Cone and the current proponent White:
>
> > > > "The black intellectual's goal, says Cone, is to "aid in the
> > > > destruction of
> > > > America as he knows it." Such destruction requires both black anger
> > > > and white guilt. The black-power theologian's goal is to tell the
> > > > story
> > > > of American oppression so powerfully and precisely that white men
> > > > will "tremble, curse, and go mad, because they will be drenched with
> > > > the filth of their evil." In the preface to his 1970 book, A Black
> > > > Theology
> > > > of Liberation, Wright wrote: "There will be no peace in America until
> > > > whites
> > > > begin to hate their whiteness, asking from the depths of their being:
> > > > 'How can we become black?'""
>
> > > > try to find one in your area
>
> > > 1970, eh? Think of it, someone raised in such an environment is now
> > > "really proud" of America. A real patriot would celebrate the return of
> > > the prodigal.
>
> > I am waiting for "the first time" you accept reality.
>
> If you're going to quote, best not go off memory, Clyde. Yours seems a
> little off:
>
> "What we have learned over this year is that hope is making a
> comeback. It is making a comeback. And let me tell you something --
> for the first time in my adult lifetime, I am really proud of my
> country. And not just because Barack has done well, but because I
> think people are hungry for change. And I have been desperate to see
> our country moving in that direction and just not feeling so alone in
> my frustration and disappointment. I've seen people who are hungry to
> be unified around some basic common issues, and it's made me proud."
>
> You are saying "ever". She did not say that. You say she wasn't proud.
> She was proud, but now she's "really proud". And you are also wrong to
> assert that it's because Obama has done well. She specifically
> addresses that.
>
> Now quit twisting words and go back to your beer. And remember: "This
> is your brain on beer, this is what happens to your brain when you mix
> beer and stupid pills."- Ascunde citatul -
>
>
That's the second speech, in the first speech
it was the first time she was proud, not really proud.
One was in Madison, the other was in Milwaukee, both
'the same day.
Let me get back to my wine and cheese and PBS drama.

Clyde Slick

September 7th 08, 11:04 PM

On 7 Sep, 15:34, MiNe 109 > wrote:
> In article
> >,
> *Clyde Slick > wrote:
>

>
> > It's the "First time" she was proud.
> > That means that she was never proud before.
>
> I think you're taking her too literally.
>
>
According to you,
Yesterday I was twisting her words,
today I am taking her too literally.

Clyde Slick

September 7th 08, 11:10 PM

On 7 Sep, 16:04, "Shhhh! I'm Listening to Reason!"
> wrote:
> On Sep 7, 2:34*pm, MiNe 109 * > wrote:
>
> >
> She said "For the first time in my adult life", not Clyde's butchery
> of what she said.
>

Well that's just great in and of itself!!!

> I'll accept that she meant it literally, in the context given
> (politics).
>
> If she's 44, and "adult life" starts at 18, that means 26 years. 26
> years ago (1982) the republicans had started decimating the country
> under Reagan. Since then, we have had the "republican revolution",
> expensive witch hunts over Clinton's Whitewater dealings, which turned
> up nothing, extreme partisanship initiated by the "no compromises, no
> prisoners" republican party and the bushie/cheney disasters of the
> last eight years (how often were they even *mentioned* at the GOP
> convention? LOL!).
>

I guess she didn't feel proud during Clinton's terms!!!
Having pride in on'e country should not be a vacillating
thing. Not something sporadic that would change form year to year,
or be dependent on any particular administration. Pride covers all our
history,
our accomplishments, our instituions, our Constitution,
our whole society.

> In the context of what she said (people coming together for common
> issues, having hope for a better future, etc.) what she said makes
> perfect sense, unless your thought process is clouded by ideology,
> racism, or beer and stupid pills.- Ascunde citatul -
>

It makes sense that she is proud, but not that it
is the first time she is proud.

MiNe 109

September 7th 08, 11:41 PM

In article
>,
Clyde Slick > wrote:

> On 7 Sep, 15:34, MiNe 109 > wrote:
> > In article
> > >,
> > *Clyde Slick > wrote:
> >
>
> >
> > > It's the "First time" she was proud.
> > > That means that she was never proud before.
> >
> > I think you're taking her too literally.
> >
> >
> According to you,
> Yesterday I was twisting her words,
> today I am taking her too literally.

You're twisting her words by taking her too literally.

Stephen

Shhhh! I'm Listening to Reason!

September 8th 08, 03:46 AM

On Sep 7, 5:10*pm, Clyde Slick > wrote:

> Having pride in on'e country should not be a vacillating
> thing. Not something sporadic that would change form year to year,
> or be dependent on any particular administration. Pride covers all our
> history,
> our accomplishments, our instituions, our Constitution,
> our whole society.

What brainless tripe.

Germans, therefore, should not be embarassed, or even consider, the
Nazi regime in their "pride" about Germany.

Your brand of thoughtless patriotism is dangerous. No wonder you're a
republican.

Shhhh! I'm Listening to Reason!

September 8th 08, 03:49 AM

On Sep 7, 5:10*pm, Clyde Slick > wrote:

> It makes sense that she is proud, but not that it
> is the first time she is proud.

And you *still* can't read. LOL!

Clyde Slick

September 8th 08, 03:43 PM

On 7 Sep, 22:46, "Shhhh! I'm Listening to Reason!"
> wrote:
> On Sep 7, 5:10*pm, Clyde Slick > wrote:
>
> > Having pride in on'e country should not be a vacillating
> > thing. Not something sporadic that would change form year to year,
> > or be dependent on any particular administration. Pride covers all our
> > history,
> > our accomplishments, our instituions, our Constitution,
> > our whole society.
>
> What brainless tripe.
>
> Germans, therefore, should not be embarassed, or even consider, the
> Nazi regime in their "pride" about Germany.
>
> Your brand of thoughtless patriotism is dangerous. No wonder you're a
> republican.

Well that certainly is a big stain, but what about the
philosophers, scientists, and overall culture
of accomplishment and advancement
that came for Germany. Shouldm Germans
feel proud to be Germans, or should they be ashamed, overall?
Are you ashamed to be an American?
I wonder why someone so full of shame
for his own country would aspire to
be a military offcer in that country's army.

MiNe 109

September 8th 08, 04:08 PM

In article
>,
Clyde Slick > wrote:

> On 7 Sep, 22:46, "Shhhh! I'm Listening to Reason!"
> > wrote:
> > On Sep 7, 5:10*pm, Clyde Slick > wrote:
> >
> > > Having pride in on'e country should not be a vacillating
> > > thing. Not something sporadic that would change form year to year,
> > > or be dependent on any particular administration. Pride covers all our
> > > history,
> > > our accomplishments, our instituions, our Constitution,
> > > our whole society.
> >
> > What brainless tripe.
> >
> > Germans, therefore, should not be embarassed, or even consider, the
> > Nazi regime in their "pride" about Germany.
> >
> > Your brand of thoughtless patriotism is dangerous. No wonder you're a
> > republican.
>
> Well that certainly is a big stain, but what about the
> philosophers, scientists, and overall culture
> of accomplishment and advancement
> that came for Germany. Shouldm Germans
> feel proud to be Germans, or should they be ashamed, overall?

That's binary thinking.

> Are you ashamed to be an American?
> I wonder why someone so full of shame
> for his own country would aspire to
> be a military offcer in that country's army.

Did you see CBS Sunday Morning?

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/09/07/sunday/main4423163.shtml

His [Bing West's] latest book, "The Strongest Tribe: War, Politics, and
the Endgame in Iraq" (Random House), is the product of 20 months on the
front lines in Iraq. It's a bottom-up view of the war, which West
believes is the only view that matters.

"This is not a book about great men," he said. "This is not a book about
how terrific or how bad President Bush was, or General Petraeus. They
didn't win or lose the war. The war was fought at that people level, at
the ground level."

And it tells a very different story from the memoirs and inside-the-Oval
Office exposes that have been written so far.

"When I hear people say, 'We just needed more troops,' I'd say, 'What
were you gonna do with those troops when you didn't have a plan, you
didn't have a strategy, you didn't have a doctrine, and you had poor
leaders at the top who didn't "get it," didn't understand the
situation?'"

West says the only ones who did "get it" were mid-ranking officers.

"They believed they understood the situation. They were the ones out
there, but they weren't listened to."

--

Stephen

Shhhh! I'm Listening to Reason!

September 8th 08, 08:54 PM

On Sep 8, 9:43*am, Clyde Slick > wrote:
> On 7 Sep, 22:46, "Shhhh! I'm Listening to Reason!"
> > wrote:
> > On Sep 7, 5:10*pm, Clyde Slick > wrote:
>
> > > Having pride in on'e country should not be a vacillating
> > > thing. Not something sporadic that would change form year to year,
> > > or be dependent on any particular administration. Pride covers all our
> > > history,
> > > our accomplishments, our instituions, our Constitution,
> > > our whole society.
>
> > What brainless tripe.
>
> > Germans, therefore, should not be embarassed, or even consider, the
> > Nazi regime in their "pride" about Germany.
>
> > Your brand of thoughtless patriotism is dangerous. No wonder you're a
> > republican.
>
> Well that certainly is a big stain, but what about the
> philosophers, scientists, and overall culture
> of accomplishment and advancement
> that came for Germany. Shouldm Germans
> feel proud to be Germans, or should they be ashamed, overall?

That was not what you said. What you said was that Germans should be
proud to be Germans, no matter what. "Not something sporadic that
would change form year to year or be dependent on any particular
administration."

Hitler's regime was an "administration". If I was German, I would not
likely be "proud" of the years 1932-1945. I would not be "proud of the
Holocaust. I would be ashamed of it, and of my country.

> Are you ashamed to be an American?

No. But I am not always proud of my country either. bushie has made me
embarrassed for us many, many times.

I think thoughtless, brainless patriotism such as that you are
advocating is dangerous.

> I wonder why someone so full of shame
> for his own country would aspire to
> be a military offcer in that country's army.

I wonder why you are so prone to strawmen. Are you drinking while
posting?

Shhhh! I'm Listening to Reason!

September 8th 08, 08:59 PM

On Sep 8, 10:08*am, MiNe 109 > wrote:

> "This is not a book about great men," he said. "This is not a book about
> how terrific or how bad President Bush was, or General Petraeus. They
> didn't win or lose the war. The war was fought at that people level, at
> the ground level."
>
> And it tells a very different story from the memoirs and inside-the-Oval
> Office exposes that have been written so far.
>
> "When I hear people say, 'We just needed more troops,' I'd say, 'What
> were you gonna do with those troops when you didn't have a plan, you
> didn't have a strategy, you didn't have a doctrine, and you had poor
> leaders at the top who didn't "get it," didn't understand the
> situation?'"
>
> West says the only ones who did "get it" were mid-ranking officers.
>
> "They believed they understood the situation. They were the ones out
> there, but they weren't listened to."

I found this interesting. It sounds like not even the generals were
listened to. I may have to read Woodward's book:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26599374

The simple among us will say that "the surge worked and was
responsible for calming Iraq down". I think we should also give a
medal to al-Sadr. ;-)

George M. Middius[_4_]

September 8th 08, 09:23 PM

Shhhh! said:

> I found this interesting. It sounds like not even the generals were
> listened to.

That is exactly what Woodward claimed on 60 Minutes yesterday. None of the
military leaders were in favor of the surge, so Bush replaced them all,
including Rumsfeld. Petraeus had been advocating sending more troops for a
while, so Bush put him in charge.

Woodward went on to say that in his view, Bush's objective was to create a
situation in Iraq that the next President would almost have to maintain
until "victory" is accomplished.

Clyde Slick

September 8th 08, 11:07 PM

On 8 Sep, 15:54, "Shhhh! I'm Listening to Reason!"
> wrote:
> On Sep 8, 9:43*am, Clyde Slick > wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On 7 Sep, 22:46, "Shhhh! I'm Listening to Reason!"
> > > wrote:
> > > On Sep 7, 5:10*pm, Clyde Slick > wrote:
>
> > > > Having pride in on'e country should not be a vacillating
> > > > thing. Not something sporadic that would change form year to year,
> > > > or be dependent on any particular administration. Pride covers all our
> > > > history,
> > > > our accomplishments, our instituions, our Constitution,
> > > > our whole society.
>
> > > What brainless tripe.
>
> > > Germans, therefore, should not be embarassed, or even consider, the
> > > Nazi regime in their "pride" about Germany.
>
> > > Your brand of thoughtless patriotism is dangerous. No wonder you're a
> > > republican.
>
> > Well that certainly is a big stain, but what about the
> > philosophers, scientists, and overall culture
> > of accomplishment and advancement
> > that came for Germany. Shouldm Germans
> > feel proud to be Germans, or should they be ashamed, overall?
>
> That was not what you said. What you said was that Germans should be
> proud to be Germans, no matter what. "Not something sporadic that
> would change form year to year or be dependent on any particular
> administration."
>

LOL!!!
I dodn't say a damn thing about Germans or Germany.
You bought it up first, and I asked you a question about Germans.

> Hitler's regime was an "administration". If I was German, I would not
> likely be "proud" of the years 1932-1945. I would not be "proud of the
> Holocaust. I would be ashamed of it, and of my country.
>

Would you be just ashamed of that one era, or ashamed
of Germany in its totality?
You didn't answer my question.
If you were a german, do you think that
you would be proud to be a german, or ashamed to be a German?

> > Are you ashamed to be an American?
>
> No. But I am not always proud of my country either. bushie has made me
> embarrassed for us many, many times.
>
> I think thoughtless, brainless patriotism such as that you are
> advocating is dangerous.
>

Its neither thoughtless or brainless, imy opinion is based on
our entire entity, our
history, our culture and our institutions.
the good, and the bad, in total.

> > I wonder why someone so full of shame
> > for his own country would aspire to
> > be a military offcer in that country's army.
>
> I wonder why you are so prone to strawmen. Are you drinking while
> posting?-

Its just another good point to consider.
there is little correlation between
your beliefs and your claimed activities.

MiNe 109

September 8th 08, 11:21 PM

In article
>,
Clyde Slick > wrote:

> On 8 Sep, 15:54, "Shhhh! I'm Listening to Reason!"
> > wrote:
> > On Sep 8, 9:43*am, Clyde Slick > wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > > On 7 Sep, 22:46, "Shhhh! I'm Listening to Reason!"
> > > > wrote:
> > > > On Sep 7, 5:10*pm, Clyde Slick > wrote:
> >
> > > > > Having pride in on'e country should not be a vacillating
> > > > > thing. Not something sporadic that would change form year to year,
> > > > > or be dependent on any particular administration. Pride covers all our
> > > > > history,
> > > > > our accomplishments, our instituions, our Constitution,
> > > > > our whole society.
> >
> > > > What brainless tripe.
> >
> > > > Germans, therefore, should not be embarassed, or even consider, the
> > > > Nazi regime in their "pride" about Germany.
> >
> > > > Your brand of thoughtless patriotism is dangerous. No wonder you're a
> > > > republican.
> >
> > > Well that certainly is a big stain, but what about the
> > > philosophers, scientists, and overall culture
> > > of accomplishment and advancement
> > > that came for Germany. Shouldm Germans
> > > feel proud to be Germans, or should they be ashamed, overall?
> >
> > That was not what you said. What you said was that Germans should be
> > proud to be Germans, no matter what. "Not something sporadic that
> > would change form year to year or be dependent on any particular
> > administration."
> >
>
>
> LOL!!!
> I dodn't say a damn thing about Germans or Germany.
> You bought it up first, and I asked you a question about Germans.

As Americans are to the USA, Germans are to Germany, pride-wise.

It works for other nations, too.

Stephen

Clyde Slick

September 9th 08, 01:15 AM

On 8 Sep, 18:21, MiNe 109 > wrote:
> In article
> >,
> *Clyde Slick > wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On 8 Sep, 15:54, "Shhhh! I'm Listening to Reason!"
> > > wrote:
> > > On Sep 8, 9:43*am, Clyde Slick > wrote:
>
> > > > On 7 Sep, 22:46, "Shhhh! I'm Listening to Reason!"
> > > > > wrote:
> > > > > On Sep 7, 5:10*pm, Clyde Slick > wrote:
>
> > > > > > Having pride in on'e country should not be a vacillating
> > > > > > thing. Not something sporadic that would change form year to year,
> > > > > > or be dependent on any particular administration. Pride covers all our
> > > > > > history,
> > > > > > our accomplishments, our instituions, our Constitution,
> > > > > > our whole society.
>
> > > > > What brainless tripe.
>
> > > > > Germans, therefore, should not be embarassed, or even consider, the
> > > > > Nazi regime in their "pride" about Germany.
>
> > > > > Your brand of thoughtless patriotism is dangerous. No wonder you're a
> > > > > republican.
>
> > > > Well that certainly is a big stain, but what about the
> > > > philosophers, scientists, and overall culture
> > > > of accomplishment and advancement
> > > > that came for Germany. Shouldm Germans
> > > > feel proud to be Germans, or should they be ashamed, overall?
>
> > > That was not what you said. What you said was that Germans should be
> > > proud to be Germans, no matter what. "Not something sporadic that
> > > would change form year to year or be dependent on any particular
> > > administration."
>
> > LOL!!!
> > I dodn't say a damn thing about Germans or Germany.
> > You bought it up first, and I asked you a question about Germans.
>
> As Americans are to the USA, Germans are to Germany, pride-wise.
>
> It works for other nations, too.
>
> Stephen-

So, exactly what are you trying to say?
I didn't get anymore out of that than it being
an inocuous self evidient but meaningles blurb.

MiNe 109

September 9th 08, 01:18 AM

In article
>,
Clyde Slick > wrote:

> On 8 Sep, 18:21, MiNe 109 > wrote:
> > In article
> > >,
> > *Clyde Slick > wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > > On 8 Sep, 15:54, "Shhhh! I'm Listening to Reason!"
> > > > wrote:
> > > > On Sep 8, 9:43*am, Clyde Slick > wrote:
> >
> > > > > On 7 Sep, 22:46, "Shhhh! I'm Listening to Reason!"
> > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > On Sep 7, 5:10*pm, Clyde Slick > wrote:
> >
> > > > > > > Having pride in on'e country should not be a vacillating
> > > > > > > thing. Not something sporadic that would change form year to
> > > > > > > year,
> > > > > > > or be dependent on any particular administration. Pride covers
> > > > > > > all our
> > > > > > > history,
> > > > > > > our accomplishments, our instituions, our Constitution,
> > > > > > > our whole society.
> >
> > > > > > What brainless tripe.
> >
> > > > > > Germans, therefore, should not be embarassed, or even consider, the
> > > > > > Nazi regime in their "pride" about Germany.
> >
> > > > > > Your brand of thoughtless patriotism is dangerous. No wonder you're
> > > > > > a
> > > > > > republican.
> >
> > > > > Well that certainly is a big stain, but what about the
> > > > > philosophers, scientists, and overall culture
> > > > > of accomplishment and advancement
> > > > > that came for Germany. Shouldm Germans
> > > > > feel proud to be Germans, or should they be ashamed, overall?
> >
> > > > That was not what you said. What you said was that Germans should be
> > > > proud to be Germans, no matter what. "Not something sporadic that
> > > > would change form year to year or be dependent on any particular
> > > > administration."
> >
> > > LOL!!!
> > > I dodn't say a damn thing about Germans or Germany.
> > > You bought it up first, and I asked you a question about Germans.
> >
> > As Americans are to the USA, Germans are to Germany, pride-wise.
> >
> > It works for other nations, too.
> >
> > Stephen-
>
> So, exactly what are you trying to say?
> I didn't get anymore out of that than it being
> an inocuous self evidient but meaningles blurb.

That your attitude re: pride lacks nuance.

Stephen

Shhhh! I'm Listening to Reason!

September 9th 08, 02:16 AM

On Sep 8, 5:07*pm, Clyde Slick > wrote:
> On 8 Sep, 15:54, "Shhhh! I'm Listening to Reason!"
>
>
>
>
>
> > wrote:
> > On Sep 8, 9:43*am, Clyde Slick > wrote:
>
> > > On 7 Sep, 22:46, "Shhhh! I'm Listening to Reason!"
> > > > wrote:
> > > > On Sep 7, 5:10*pm, Clyde Slick > wrote:
>
> > > > > Having pride in on'e country should not be a vacillating
> > > > > thing. Not something sporadic that would change form year to year,
> > > > > or be dependent on any particular administration. Pride covers all our
> > > > > history,
> > > > > our accomplishments, our instituions, our Constitution,
> > > > > our whole society.
>
> > > > What brainless tripe.
>
> > > > Germans, therefore, should not be embarassed, or even consider, the
> > > > Nazi regime in their "pride" about Germany.
>
> > > > Your brand of thoughtless patriotism is dangerous. No wonder you're a
> > > > republican.
>
> > > Well that certainly is a big stain, but what about the
> > > philosophers, scientists, and overall culture
> > > of accomplishment and advancement
> > > that came for Germany. Shouldm Germans
> > > feel proud to be Germans, or should they be ashamed, overall?
>
> > That was not what you said. What you said was that Germans should be
> > proud to be Germans, no matter what. "Not something sporadic that
> > would change form year to year or be dependent on any particular
> > administration."
>
> LOL!!!
> I dodn't say a damn thing about Germans or Germany.

As I frequently say to 2pid: "Duh".

> You bought it up first, and I asked you a question about Germans.

And again, "Duh".

> > Hitler's regime was an "administration". If I was German, I would not
> > likely be "proud" of the years 1932-1945. I would not be "proud of the
> > Holocaust. I would be ashamed of it, and of my country.
>
> Would you be just ashamed of that one era, or ashamed
> of Germany in its totality?
> You didn't answer my question.

Yes, I did.

> If you were a german, do you think that
> you would be proud to be a german, or ashamed to be a German?

Why is that a "yes-no" question? As I said, I would not be ashamed to
be a German. There would be some things about Germany I was proud of.
There would be other things that would not make me proud. Just like
the US.

> > > Are you ashamed to be an American?
>
> > No. But I am not always proud of my country either. bushie has made me
> > embarrassed for us many, many times.
>
> > I think thoughtless, brainless patriotism such as that you are
> > advocating is dangerous.
>
> Its neither thoughtless or brainless, imy opinion is based on
> our entire entity, our
> history, our culture and our institutions.
> the good, and the bad, in total.

So you admit there is bad. Are you "proud" of the bad as well?

> > > I wonder why someone so full of shame
> > > for his own country would aspire to
> > > be a military offcer in that country's army.
>
> > I wonder why you are so prone to strawmen. Are you drinking while
> > posting?-
>
> Its just another good point to consider.

You mean 'point' I presume. It's not that good either, Clyde.

> there is little correlation between
> your beliefs and your claimed activities.

I did not serve as a strawman. LOL!

Shhhh! I'm Listening to Reason!

September 9th 08, 02:20 AM

On Sep 8, 7:15*pm, Clyde Slick > wrote:
> On 8 Sep, 18:21, MiNe 109 * > wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > In article
> > >,
> > *Clyde Slick > wrote:
>
> > > On 8 Sep, 15:54, "Shhhh! I'm Listening to Reason!"
> > > > wrote:
> > > > On Sep 8, 9:43*am, Clyde Slick > wrote:
>
> > > > > On 7 Sep, 22:46, "Shhhh! I'm Listening to Reason!"
> > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > On Sep 7, 5:10*pm, Clyde Slick > wrote:
>
> > > > > > > Having pride in on'e country should not be a vacillating
> > > > > > > thing. Not something sporadic that would change form year to year,
> > > > > > > or be dependent on any particular administration. Pride covers all our
> > > > > > > history,
> > > > > > > our accomplishments, our instituions, our Constitution,
> > > > > > > our whole society.
>
> > > > > > What brainless tripe.
>
> > > > > > Germans, therefore, should not be embarassed, or even consider, the
> > > > > > Nazi regime in their "pride" about Germany.
>
> > > > > > Your brand of thoughtless patriotism is dangerous. No wonder you're a
> > > > > > republican.
>
> > > > > Well that certainly is a big stain, but what about the
> > > > > philosophers, scientists, and overall culture
> > > > > of accomplishment and advancement
> > > > > that came for Germany. Shouldm Germans
> > > > > feel proud to be Germans, or should they be ashamed, overall?
>
> > > > That was not what you said. What you said was that Germans should be
> > > > proud to be Germans, no matter what. "Not something sporadic that
> > > > would change form year to year or be dependent on any particular
> > > > administration."
>
> > > LOL!!!
> > > I dodn't say a damn thing about Germans or Germany.
> > > You bought it up first, and I asked you a question about Germans.
>
> > As Americans are to the USA, Germans are to Germany, pride-wise.
>
> > It works for other nations, too.
>
> > Stephen-
>
> So, exactly what are you trying to say?
> I didn't get anymore out of that than it being
> an inocuous self evidient but meaningles blurb.

Slowly, for the learning-impaired:

If I am to be proudly patriotic no matter what, regardless of the
administration or whatever actions the US took or takes or will take,
as *you* said, then the same applies to Germans and Hitler's Germany.
They should be proud of it all.

Get it, Clyde? Or are you saying that only those of us in the US
should be constantly "proud"?

Blind, stupid patriotism is worthless and dangerous. You go with the
GOP's "Country First". I'm sure it makes your heart swell with pride.
LOL!

Clyde Slick

September 9th 08, 03:03 AM

On 8 Sep, 21:16, "Shhhh! I'm Listening to Reason!"
> wrote:
> On Sep 8, 5:07*pm, Clyde Slick > wrote:
>
>>
> > > > > Germans, therefore, should not be embarassed, or even consider, the
> > > > > Nazi regime in their "pride" about Germany.
>
> > > > > Your brand of thoughtless patriotism is dangerous. No wonder you're a
> > > > > republican.
>
> > > > Well that certainly is a big stain, but what about the
> > > > philosophers, scientists, and overall culture
> > > > of accomplishment and advancement
> > > > that came for Germany. Shouldm Germans
> > > > feel proud to be Germans, or should they be ashamed, overall?
>
> > > That was not what you said. What you said was that Germans should be
> > > proud to be Germans, no matter what. "Not something sporadic that
> > > would change form year to year or be dependent on any particular
> > > administration."
>
> > LOL!!!
> > I dodn't say a damn thing about Germans or Germany.
>
> As I frequently say to 2pid: "Duh".
>

"Duh" for you,
You brought up Germany, and then falsely calimed I said something
about Germans and Germany that I did not say

> > You bought it up first, and I asked you a question about Germans.
>
> And again, "Duh".
>

And again, a "Duh" for you.
I did not say waht you claimed I said.

> > > Hitler's regime was an "administration". If I was German, I would not
> > > likely be "proud" of the years 1932-1945. I would not be "proud of the
> > > Holocaust. I would be ashamed of it, and of my country.
>
> > Would you be just ashamed of that one era, or ashamed
> > of Germany in its totality?
> > You didn't answer my question.
>
> Yes, I did.
>

"Duh!"
no you did not
I asked you if Germans should be
proud to be germans, or if the should be
ashamed to be Germans.

Your nonanswer was a false accusations that
I said that Germans should be proud
to be Germans no matter what.

> > If you were a german, do you think that
> > you would be proud to be a german, or ashamed to be a German?
>
> Why is that a "yes-no" question? As I said, I would not be ashamed to
> be a German. There would be some things about Germany I was proud of.
> There would be other things that would not make me proud. Just like
> the US.
>

It is an obvious yes or no question. either you are proud, or you are
not.
I

Here is an analogy
it's like asling you about Bethoven's 6th, do you like
it or not. Your answer is like saying, well, I like the first half
of the first movement, but don't like the last half of the firt. the
first
half of the second is weak, but I like the seconf half of the second
movement.
All of the third movelment is strong,
But I don't like the fiorst half of the
fourth movement, but the second half of the fourth us fine with me.
ENOUGHT OF THAT BULL****!
Do you like it, yes or no?

So, yes or no, are you proud to be an American???
YES, OR NO!

> > > > Are you ashamed to be an American?
>
> > > No. But I am not always proud of my country either. bushie has made me
> > > embarrassed for us many, many times.
>
> > > I think thoughtless, brainless patriotism such as that you are
> > > advocating is dangerous.
>
> > Its neither thoughtless or brainless, imy opinion is based on
> > our entire entity, our
> > history, our culture and our institutions.
> > the good, and the bad, in total.
>
> So you admit there is bad. Are you "proud" of the bad as well?

No I don't, but I am proud to be an American
Are you?

>
> > > > I wonder why someone so full of shame
> > > > for his own country would aspire to
> > > > be a military offcer in that country's army.
>
> > > I wonder why you are so prone to strawmen. Are you drinking while
> > > posting?-
>
> > Its just another good point to consider.
>
> You mean 'point' I presume. It's not that good either, Clyde.
>
> > there is little correlation between
> > your beliefs and your claimed activities.
>
> I did not serve as a strawman.

I can't even believe you served at all.

Clyde Slick

September 9th 08, 03:08 AM

On 8 Sep, 21:20, "Shhhh! I'm Listening to Reason!"
> wrote:
> On Sep 8, 7:15*pm, Clyde Slick > wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On 8 Sep, 18:21, MiNe 109 * > wrote:
>
> > > In article
> > > >,
> > > *Clyde Slick > wrote:
>
> > > > On 8 Sep, 15:54, "Shhhh! I'm Listening to Reason!"
> > > > > wrote:
> > > > > On Sep 8, 9:43*am, Clyde Slick > wrote:
>
> > > > > > On 7 Sep, 22:46, "Shhhh! I'm Listening to Reason!"
> > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > On Sep 7, 5:10*pm, Clyde Slick > wrote:
>
> > > > > > > > Having pride in on'e country should not be a vacillating
> > > > > > > > thing. Not something sporadic that would change form year to year,
> > > > > > > > or be dependent on any particular administration. Pride covers all our
> > > > > > > > history,
> > > > > > > > our accomplishments, our instituions, our Constitution,
> > > > > > > > our whole society.
>
> > > > > > > What brainless tripe.
>
> > > > > > > Germans, therefore, should not be embarassed, or even consider, the
> > > > > > > Nazi regime in their "pride" about Germany.
>
> > > > > > > Your brand of thoughtless patriotism is dangerous. No wonder you're a
> > > > > > > republican.
>
> > > > > > Well that certainly is a big stain, but what about the
> > > > > > philosophers, scientists, and overall culture
> > > > > > of accomplishment and advancement
> > > > > > that came for Germany. Shouldm Germans
> > > > > > feel proud to be Germans, or should they be ashamed, overall?
>
> > > > > That was not what you said. What you said was that Germans should be
> > > > > proud to be Germans, no matter what. "Not something sporadic that
> > > > > would change form year to year or be dependent on any particular
> > > > > administration."
>
> > > > LOL!!!
> > > > I dodn't say a damn thing about Germans or Germany.
> > > > You bought it up first, and I asked you a question about Germans.
>
> > > As Americans are to the USA, Germans are to Germany, pride-wise.
>
> > > It works for other nations, too.
>
> > > Stephen-
>
> > So, exactly what are you trying to say?
> > I didn't get anymore out of that than it being
> > an inocuous self evidient but meaningles blurb.
>
> Slowly, for the learning-impaired:
>
> If I am to be proudly patriotic no matter what, regardless of the
> administration or whatever actions the US took or takes or will take,
> as *you* said, then the same applies to Germans and Hitler's Germany.
> They should be proud of it all.
>

No, not "no matter what"
Considering "everything", are you proud of America, yes or no?

> Get it, Clyde? Or are you saying that only those of us in the US
> should be constantly "proud"?
>

No, overall proud. Are you overall, proud of America?

> Blind, stupid patriotism is worthless and dangerous. You go with the
> GOP's "Country First". I'm sure it makes your heart swell with pride.
> LOL!-

Nope,
I know history, I know our good and our bad.
I have pride in America.
BTW, I saw Obama being interviewed by O'reilly.
My take is that "Mr." Obama, as opposed
to "Mrs.", does have genuine pride
in America.
Too bad you don't

Shhhh! I'm Listening to Reason!

September 9th 08, 08:11 AM

On Sep 8, 9:08*pm, Clyde Slick > wrote:
> On 8 Sep, 21:20, "Shhhh! I'm Listening to Reason!"

> > wrote:
> > On Sep 8, 7:15*pm, Clyde Slick > wrote:
>
> > > On 8 Sep, 18:21, MiNe 109 * > wrote:
>
> > > > In article
> > > > >,
> > > > *Clyde Slick > wrote:
>
> > > > > On 8 Sep, 15:54, "Shhhh! I'm Listening to Reason!"
> > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > On Sep 8, 9:43*am, Clyde Slick > wrote:
>
> > > > > > > On 7 Sep, 22:46, "Shhhh! I'm Listening to Reason!"
> > > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > On Sep 7, 5:10*pm, Clyde Slick > wrote:
>
> > > > > > > > > Having pride in on'e country should not be a vacillating
> > > > > > > > > thing. Not something sporadic that would change form year to year,
> > > > > > > > > or be dependent on any particular administration. Pride covers all our
> > > > > > > > > history,
> > > > > > > > > our accomplishments, our instituions, our Constitution,
> > > > > > > > > our whole society.
>
> > > > > > > > What brainless tripe.
>
> > > > > > > > Germans, therefore, should not be embarassed, or even consider, the
> > > > > > > > Nazi regime in their "pride" about Germany.
>
> > > > > > > > Your brand of thoughtless patriotism is dangerous. No wonder you're a
> > > > > > > > republican.
>
> > > > > > > Well that certainly is a big stain, but what about the
> > > > > > > philosophers, scientists, and overall culture
> > > > > > > of accomplishment and advancement
> > > > > > > that came for Germany. Shouldm Germans
> > > > > > > feel proud to be Germans, or should they be ashamed, overall?
>
> > > > > > That was not what you said. What you said was that Germans should be
> > > > > > proud to be Germans, no matter what. "Not something sporadic that
> > > > > > would change form year to year or be dependent on any particular
> > > > > > administration."
>
> > > > > LOL!!!
> > > > > I dodn't say a damn thing about Germans or Germany.
> > > > > You bought it up first, and I asked you a question about Germans.
>
> > > > As Americans are to the USA, Germans are to Germany, pride-wise.
>
> > > > It works for other nations, too.

> > > So, exactly what are you trying to say?
> > > I didn't get anymore out of that than it being
> > > an inocuous self evidient but meaningles blurb.
>
> > Slowly, for the learning-impaired:
>
> > If I am to be proudly patriotic no matter what, regardless of the
> > administration or whatever actions the US took or takes or will take,
> > as *you* said, then the same applies to Germans and Hitler's Germany.
> > They should be proud of it all.
>
> No, not *"no matter what"

What is the delineation? When is it "OK" not to be proud of one's
country?

> Considering "everything", are you proud of America, yes or no?

I've already answered this.

Stephen called your poor question "binary thinking". So Clyde asks,
"What is binary thinking? That's a "yes" or "no" question." LOL!

> > Get it, Clyde? Or are you saying that only those of us in the US
> > should be constantly "proud"?
>
> No, overall proud. Are you overall, proud of America?

Where is the office? I need to take my Loyalty Oath. "I am not, nor
have I ever been, a Communist..." LOL!

> > Blind, stupid patriotism is worthless and dangerous. You go with the
> > GOP's "Country First". I'm sure it makes your heart swell with pride.
> > LOL!
>
> Nope,
> I know history, I know our good and our bad.
> I have pride in America.

About which part? Which parts are you not very "proud" of?

> BTW, I saw Obama being interviewed by O'reilly.
> My take is that "Mr." Obama, as opposed
> to "Mrs.", *does have genuine pride
> in America.

Goody.

> Too bad you don't

Why would you assume that?

Shhhh! I'm Listening to Reason!

September 9th 08, 12:46 PM

On Sep 8, 9:03*pm, Clyde Slick > wrote:
> On 8 Sep, 21:16, "Shhhh! I'm Listening to Reason!"

> > wrote:
> > On Sep 8, 5:07*pm, Clyde Slick > wrote:
>
> > > > > > Germans, therefore, should not be embarassed, or even consider, the
> > > > > > Nazi regime in their "pride" about Germany.
>
> > > > > > Your brand of thoughtless patriotism is dangerous. No wonder you're a
> > > > > > republican.
>
> > > > > Well that certainly is a big stain, but what about the
> > > > > philosophers, scientists, and overall culture
> > > > > of accomplishment and advancement
> > > > > that came for Germany. Shouldm Germans
> > > > > feel proud to be Germans, or should they be ashamed, overall?
>
> > > > That was not what you said. What you said was that Germans should be
> > > > proud to be Germans, no matter what. "Not something sporadic that
> > > > would change form year to year or be dependent on any particular
> > > > administration."
>
> > > LOL!!!
> > > I dodn't say a damn thing about Germans or Germany.
>
> > As I frequently say to 2pid: "Duh".
>
> "Duh" for you,
> You brought up Germany, and then falsely calimed I said something
> about Germans and Germany that I did not say

You did not say "Not something sporadic that would change form year to
year or be dependent on any particular administration"?

I still see that in a post of yours. My browser must be broken. My
apologies.

> > > You bought it up first, and I asked you a question about Germans.
>
> > And again, "Duh".
>
> And again, a "Duh" for you.
> I did not say waht you claimed I said.

You did not say "Not something sporadic that would change form year to
year or be dependent on any particular administration"?

I still see that in a post of yours. My browser must be broken. My
apologies.

> > > > Hitler's regime was an "administration". If I was German, I would not
> > > > likely be "proud" of the years 1932-1945. I would not be "proud of the
> > > > Holocaust. I would be ashamed of it, and of my country.
>
> > > Would you be just ashamed of that one era, or ashamed
> > > of Germany in its totality?
> > > You didn't answer my question.
>
> > Yes, I did.
>
> "Duh!"
> no you did not

Yes, I did.

Should Russians be proud of the Red Purge and Putin and sending
dissidents to Siberia or the gulags? After all, they did give the
world Tolstoy and Tchaikovsky.

> I asked you if Germans should be
> proud to be germans, or if the should be
> ashamed to be Germans.

There are parts they should be proud of, and parts they should be
ashamed of. As I said.

> Your nonanswer

BZZZZZZT!

> was a false accusations that
> I said that Germans should be proud
> to be Germans no matter what.

No, it was taking your absolute statement about brainless, unthinking
and dangerous patriotism and applying it to the citizens of another
nation. Quit drinking and try to pay attention.

> > > If you were a german, do you think that
> > > you would be proud to be a german, or ashamed to be a German?
>
> > Why is that a "yes-no" question? As I said, I would not be ashamed to
> > be a German. There would be some things about Germany I was proud of.
> > There would be other things that would not make me proud. Just like
> > the US.
>
> It is an obvious yes or no question. either you are proud, or you are
>not.

No, it is a brainless attempt at McCarthyism-like loyalty questions
and false patriotism.

> I

You.

> Here is an analogy
> it's *like asling you about Bethoven's 6th, do you like
> it or not. Your answer is like saying, well, I like the first half
> of the first movement, but don't like the last half of the firt. the
> first
> half of the second is weak, but I like the seconf half of the second
> movement.
> All of the third movelment is strong,
> But I don't like the fiorst half of the
> fourth movement, but the second half of the fourth us fine with me.
> ENOUGHT OF THAT BULL****!
> Do you like it, yes or no?

I like the first movement, and parts of the second. The third movement
starts out a little slow, but then it picks up, while the conclusion
of the fourth is strong.

So 'patriotism' to you is exactly like whether or not you like a song.
Cool!

> So, yes or no, are you proud to be an American???
> YES, OR NO!

ALREADY ANSWERED! LOL!

> > > > > Are you ashamed to be an American?
>
> > > > No. But I am not always proud of my country either. bushie has made me
> > > > embarrassed for us many, many times.
>
> > > > I think thoughtless, brainless patriotism such as that you are
> > > > advocating is dangerous.
>
> > > Its neither thoughtless or brainless, imy opinion is based on
> > > our entire entity, our
> > > history, our culture and our institutions.
> > > the good, and the bad, in total.
>
> > So you admit there is bad. Are you "proud" of the bad as well?
>
> No I don't, but I am proud to be an American
> Are you?

Already answered, whether or not you liked my answer.

> > > > > I wonder why someone so full of shame
> > > > > for his own country would aspire to
> > > > > be a military offcer in that country's army.
>
> > > > I wonder why you are so prone to strawmen. Are you drinking while
> > > > posting?-
>
> > > Its just another good point to consider.
>
> > You mean 'point' I presume. It's not that good either, Clyde.
>
> > > there is little correlation between
> > > your beliefs and your claimed activities.
>
> > I did not serve as a strawman.
>
> I can't even believe you served at all.

Goody.

Clyde Slick

September 9th 08, 12:56 PM

On 9 Sep, 03:11, "Shhhh! I'm Listening to Reason!"
> wrote:
> On Sep 8, 9:08*pm, Clyde Slick > wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On 8 Sep, 21:20, "Shhhh! I'm Listening to Reason!"
> > > wrote:
> > > On Sep 8, 7:15*pm, Clyde Slick > wrote:
>
> > > > On 8 Sep, 18:21, MiNe 109 * > wrote:
>
> > > > > In article
> > > > > >,
> > > > > *Clyde Slick > wrote:
>
> > > > > > On 8 Sep, 15:54, "Shhhh! I'm Listening to Reason!"
> > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > On Sep 8, 9:43*am, Clyde Slick > wrote:
>
> > > > > > > > On 7 Sep, 22:46, "Shhhh! I'm Listening to Reason!"
> > > > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > > On Sep 7, 5:10*pm, Clyde Slick > wrote:
>
> > > > > > > > > > Having pride in on'e country should not be a vacillating
> > > > > > > > > > thing. Not something sporadic that would change form year to year,
> > > > > > > > > > or be dependent on any particular administration. Pride covers all our
> > > > > > > > > > history,
> > > > > > > > > > our accomplishments, our instituions, our Constitution,
> > > > > > > > > > our whole society.
>
> > > > > > > > > What brainless tripe.
>
> > > > > > > > > Germans, therefore, should not be embarassed, or even consider, the
> > > > > > > > > Nazi regime in their "pride" about Germany.
>
> > > > > > > > > Your brand of thoughtless patriotism is dangerous. No wonder you're a
> > > > > > > > > republican.
>
> > > > > > > > Well that certainly is a big stain, but what about the
> > > > > > > > philosophers, scientists, and overall culture
> > > > > > > > of accomplishment and advancement
> > > > > > > > that came for Germany. Shouldm Germans
> > > > > > > > feel proud to be Germans, or should they be ashamed, overall?
>
> > > > > > > That was not what you said. What you said was that Germans should be
> > > > > > > proud to be Germans, no matter what. "Not something sporadic that
> > > > > > > would change form year to year or be dependent on any particular
> > > > > > > administration."
>
> > > > > > LOL!!!
> > > > > > I dodn't say a damn thing about Germans or Germany.
> > > > > > You bought it up first, and I asked you a question about Germans.
>
> > > > > As Americans are to the USA, Germans are to Germany, pride-wise.
>
> > > > > It works for other nations, too.
> > > > So, exactly what are you trying to say?
> > > > I didn't get anymore out of that than it being
> > > > an inocuous self evidient but meaningles blurb.
>
> > > Slowly, for the learning-impaired:
>
> > > If I am to be proudly patriotic no matter what, regardless of the
> > > administration or whatever actions the US took or takes or will take,
> > > as *you* said, then the same applies to Germans and Hitler's Germany.
> > > They should be proud of it all.
>
> > No, not *"no matter what"
>
> What is the delineation? When is it "OK" not to be proud of one's
> country?
>
> > Considering "everything", are you proud of America, yes or no?
>
> I've already answered this.
>
> Stephen called your poor question "binary thinking". So Clyde asks,
> "What is binary thinking? That's a "yes" or "no" question." LOL!
>
> > > Get it, Clyde? Or are you saying that only those of us in the US
> > > should be constantly "proud"?
>
> > No, overall proud. Are you overall, proud of America?
>
> Where is the office? I need to take my Loyalty Oath. "I am not, nor
> have I ever been, a Communist..." LOL!
>
> > > Blind, stupid patriotism is worthless and dangerous. You go with the
> > > GOP's "Country First". I'm sure it makes your heart swell with pride.
> > > LOL!
>
> > Nope,
> > I know history, I know our good and our bad.
> > I have pride in America.
>
> About which part? Which parts are you not very "proud" of?
>
> > BTW, I saw Obama being interviewed by O'reilly.
> > My take is that "Mr." Obama, as opposed
> > to "Mrs.", *does have genuine pride
> > in America.
>
> Goody.
>
> > Too bad you don't
>
> Why would you assume that?-

Your Inability to answer a simple yes/no question is noted.