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#1
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On Mon, 19 Sep 2005 19:10:22 -0400, "Todd McFadden"
wrote: I am generally a Behringer fan, but this is outrageous: Did you mean "I am generally NOT a Behringer fan"? That would make more sense in context. http://www.record-producer.com/learn.cfm?a=2838 Quoting a paragraph (I hope the author doesn't SUE me...): "My feeling is however that probably the tube is connected and run very conservatively in order to prolong its life. Hence the heater current is too small to make the tube glow." This doesn't seem likely. If the heater is operated well below its rated voltage, emission would surely be WAY down, so much that the tube will be useless in a circuit. " And if it doesn't glow, what would have been the point of putting it on display? Hence the LEDs to compensate. Perhaps they were an afterthought." Does this site (record-producer.com) have any Behringer ads? Perhaps a better question is: DID this site have any Behringer ads? Todd Could we ALL (the article author, and all posters in this thread) be named in the next Behringer lawsuit? Stay tuned for the next episode of "As the CDR turns." |
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#2
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"Todd McFadden" wrote in message
... I am generally a Behringer fan, but this is outrageous: http://www.record-producer.com/learn.cfm?a=2838 Todd Those things must be engineered to science-fiction-level tolerances - it's not even that the light of the LEDs affects the sound (that would be amazing enough in itself), but that the *energy generated by the user's awareness of the LEDs* affects the sound. Gotta get me some of that tech. |
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#3
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Bob Geary wrote:
...snip.. Those things must be engineered to science-fiction-level tolerances - it's not even that the light of the LEDs affects the sound (that would be amazing enough in itself), but that the *energy generated by the user's awareness of the LEDs* affects the sound. Gotta get me some of that tech. That's the acoustic placebo effect in action there. I believe it's similar to never blind testing found in some other audio forums, reviews, etc. Or in other words: who put the psycho in psychoacoustics? Later... Ron Capik -- |
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#4
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"Ron Capik" wrote in message
... That's the acoustic placebo effect in action there. I believe it's similar to never blind testing found in some other audio forums, reviews, etc. Or in other words: who put the psycho in psychoacoustics? As much as I hate to admit it (and think it's total bunk) that's the only thing that validates audio snake oil since we're talking enjoyment of art which is totally subjective. So if a person believes something to be true, it might as well be. |
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#5
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On 9/19/05 10:28 PM, in article ,
"Bob Geary" wrote: "Todd McFadden" wrote in message ... I am generally a Behringer fan, but this is outrageous: http://www.record-producer.com/learn.cfm?a=2838 Todd Those things must be engineered to science-fiction-level tolerances - it's not even that the light of the LEDs affects the sound (that would be amazing enough in itself), but that the *energy generated by the user's awareness of the LEDs* affects the sound. Gotta get me some of that tech. I have these great SonicMarvelOil speaker cables... You need them for your studio monitors, only $300/ft just be sure that the arrows point towards the SPEAKER end. |
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#6
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SSJVCmag wrote:
I have these great SonicMarvelOil speaker cables... You need them for your studio monitors, only $300/ft just be sure that the arrows point towards the SPEAKER end. I've been told you can emphasize the backbeat by reversing those cables. -- ha |
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#7
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"Todd McFadden" wrote in message ... I am generally a Behringer fan, but this is outrageous: http://www.record-producer.com/learn.cfm?a=2838 Todd Well you certainly have 'starved plate' designs that give a sort of crass tube effect without the cost of a real PSU (like most-if-not-all cheapo tube pre's really are), but this would appear to be a 'starved filament' design !!! geoff |
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#8
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On Tue, 20 Sep 2005 15:03:02 +1200, "Geoff@work"
wrote: "Todd McFadden" wrote in message ... I am generally a Behringer fan, but this is outrageous: http://www.record-producer.com/learn.cfm?a=2838 Todd Well you certainly have 'starved plate' designs that give a sort of crass tube effect without the cost of a real PSU (like most-if-not-all cheapo tube pre's really are), but this would appear to be a 'starved filament' design !!! It could even be a 'starved vacuum' design, where the silvery area around the getter has turned white. Would any buyer of this thing be the wiser??? geoff |
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#9
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"Geoff@work" wrote:
...snip.. Well you certainly have 'starved plate' designs that give a sort of crass tube effect without the cost of a real PSU (like most-if-not-all cheapo tube pre's really are), but this would appear to be a 'starved filament' design !!! geoff Maybe they're going for a cold cathode sound to balance the tube's warmth. later... Ron Capik -- |
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#10
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Todd McFadden wrote:
I am generally a Behringer fan, but this is outrageous: http://www.record-producer.com/learn.cfm?a=2838 Todd Wow! The author really has a bone to pick! Does this matter AT ALL? Now, if Behringer were selling it as a superb sounding unit with real valve sound AND charging money for it, it would be nasty, but the bloody thing costs $99! What a ridiculous article... |
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#11
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david morley wrote:
Wow! The author really has a bone to pick! He should've started with his own forehead. -- ha |
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#12
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On Mon, 19 Sep 2005 19:10:22 -0400, "Todd McFadden"
wrote: I am generally a Behringer fan, but this is outrageous: http://www.record-producer.com/learn.cfm?a=2838 This is not at all unprecedented. Take a look at what Bob Carver does with his Classic Vacuum Tube preamp: http://home.nyc.rr.com/acidrock212/tube3.jpg http://home.nyc.rr.com/acidrock212/tube4.jpg He surrounds 3 tubes in a mirrored cage, with white LED's behind each one. When you look through the front window, it's just a little more dramatic. I was not at all offended by it; I thought it was kind of cool. A_C |
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#13
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"Agent_C" wrote in message ... He surrounds 3 tubes in a mirrored cage, with white LED's behind each one. When you look through the front window, it's just a little more dramatic. I was not at all offended by it; I thought it was kind of cool. Not 'hot' at all ? So much for thermionics... geoff |
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#14
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On Tue, 20 Sep 2005 07:24:59 -0400, Agent_C
wrote: On Mon, 19 Sep 2005 19:10:22 -0400, "Todd McFadden" wrote: I am generally a Behringer fan, but this is outrageous: http://www.record-producer.com/learn.cfm?a=2838 This is not at all unprecedented. Take a look at what Bob Carver does with his Classic Vacuum Tube preamp: http://home.nyc.rr.com/acidrock212/tube3.jpg http://home.nyc.rr.com/acidrock212/tube4.jpg He surrounds 3 tubes in a mirrored cage, with white LED's behind each They look like neon lamps to me, but yes, it's the same idea... one. When you look through the front window, it's just a little more dramatic. I was not at all offended by it; I thought it was kind of cool. A_C |
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#15
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Ben Bradley wrote in
: On Tue, 20 Sep 2005 07:24:59 -0400, Agent_C wrote: On Mon, 19 Sep 2005 19:10:22 -0400, "Todd McFadden" wrote: I am generally a Behringer fan, but this is outrageous: http://www.record-producer.com/learn.cfm?a=2838 This is not at all unprecedented. Take a look at what Bob Carver does with his Classic Vacuum Tube preamp: http://home.nyc.rr.com/acidrock212/tube3.jpg http://home.nyc.rr.com/acidrock212/tube4.jpg He surrounds 3 tubes in a mirrored cage, with white LED's behind each They look like neon lamps to me, but yes, it's the same idea... They are neither LEDS or Neon lamps. they are filament lamps.like the ones made to illuminate VU meters. They are probably operated on half their rated voltage, in order to generate that orange glow. -- Bob Quintal PA is y I've altered my email address. |
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#17
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SSJVCmag wrote On 09/20/05 08:34,:
On 9/19/05 7:10 PM, in article , "Todd McFadden" wrote: I am generally a Behringer fan, but this is outrageous: http://www.record-producer.com/learn.cfm?a=2838 Todd I AM LAOGHING LOUDER AND MORE EXHAUSTINHGLY THAN IN WEEKS!!!!!!!!!!!! WHAT A HOOT!!!! (****... Where's the coffee...) GOOD GOD MAN WHO COULD POSSIBLY BE SURPRISED BY THIS?????? I SWEAR... THE LEAPOARD'S SPOTS!!!!! HEHEHEHEHHAHAHAHAHAHAAAHOHOHOHOHOHOHOHOHOHOHOH Wheeeeeoooo... Gasp Whew.. That's funny... Really truly funny... Marvin Caesar and Greg Mackie are smilin' and noddin'... But they're still not happy... **And** ESPECIALLY cuz it makes B-lovers get their panties all in a bunch: I reitterate my oft-told annoying dead-horse who-cares little vow: no Behringer gear will find it's way here unless I make some Fletcher-insipred art out of it.... And I thing it'd have to be somethin ACTIVE, y'know like those folks that build big Free Art Pieces out of Really Dangerous Machinery that usually self-destructs spectacularly... ? Maybe something to do with a rube-goldberg thing ending in an arc-welder and a mix of LOX-&-Napthanol... I think the bottom line of this thing is the ethics of the positioning of LED's behind a tube which if it were operating at proper plate voltage, wouldn't need the LED's, really. If the tube is in there for a marketing reason more than a design circuit reason, the ethical argument arises once again, right? If a company is going to make the claim of "added tube warmth" or words to that effect, it becomes an ethical issue again if it is a spurious claim. I have older Behringer gear, gates and c/l's and they work great. And, yes, their customer service/ repair service is very proactive. We bought the newer MDX4600 quad compressor and have problems with more than one unit, typically on compressor #1 on two units. This speaks to build quality deterioration over the past ten years that has concerned me greatly. So I have become skeptical of their newer products, too, because of our experience with these units, and the trend of companies like Behringer, ART and Aphex to try to sell lower end purchasers on the idea that their tube gear will give them something it is clearly designed to not do, to function in the manner advertised. Another ethical problem, no? Even in hybrid gear of higher quality, the tube is one of the stages, the transistors another stage... but they both OPERATE properly. Okay, okay, who ever said big business had to be ethical? That said, though, if a company wants to survive, they need to be honest about what their stuff does, right? But integrity is something we all claim to adhere to, and want other to adhere to as well. So when a company is not being ethical and operating absent integrity, it is our prerogative to boycott ever buying anything from them again, new stuff that is, which does not meet the criteria we expect in equipment (or whatever they manufacture/market/sell) until they reform their method of operation and clean up their act and regain the "trust" of the consumer, whether in the professional arena or lower levels of the purchasing food chain. --fletch |
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#18
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"Fletch" wrote in message I think the bottom line of this thing is the ethics of the positioning of LED's behind a tube which if it were operating at proper plate voltage, wouldn't need the LED's, really. So it really should be marlketed at a LED preamp. And the tube place BEHIND the LEDs ! geoff |
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#19
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Todd McFadden wrote:
I am generally a Behringer fan, but this is outrageous: http://www.record-producer.com/learn.cfm?a=2838 Todd At least the tube is disconnected. -- Les Cargill |
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#20
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"Les Cargill" wrote in message ... At least the tube is disconnected. No, it's part of the circuit. If it weren't, you can be sure the author of the article would have jumped at the opportunity to tell us. But telling us the circuit stopped working when he removed the tube would have reduced the sensation in his article. Let's face it, "Behringer tube pre-amp stops working when tube is removed" isn't much of a story, is it? Tim |
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#21
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#22
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"Chevdo" wrote in message news:9ddYe.256611$HI.240872@edtnps84... The author may have had no idea how to remove it from the circuit or did not want to damage the equipment if he is electronics-naive, or simply didn't want to void his warranty You're insulting the engineer. No* engineer who deals with audio electronics is going to be incapable of removing a tube! But if the author wanted to be disingenuous in the manner you are describing, he wouldn't have mentioned that disconnecting the tube would be the next step in determining whether the tube is actually being used in the circuit. Well, he did mention it. He had to, otherwise it might not have occurred to people that the tube did nothing. Tim |
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#23
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#24
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On Mon, 19 Sep 2005 19:10:22 -0400, "Todd McFadden"
wrote: I am generally a Behringer fan, but this is outrageous: http://www.record-producer.com/learn.cfm?a=2838 Todd I find it interesting that no one has checked to see if there was any heater or plate voltage on the socket? To even give them the benifit of the doubt. before every one is up in arms. I am not supporting them. God knows what a reputation the company has for ripping off designs. Just think we need more facts before we hang em! |
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#25
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In article , danger wrote:
On Mon, 19 Sep 2005 19:10:22 -0400, "Todd McFadden" wrote: I am generally a Behringer fan, but this is outrageous: http://www.record-producer.com/learn.cfm?a=2838 Todd I find it interesting that no one has checked to see if there was any heater or plate voltage on the socket? To even give them the benifit of the doubt. before every one is up in arms. I am not supporting them. God knows what a reputation the company has for ripping off designs. Just think we need more facts before we hang em! And measure the filiment voltage and see if all these claims are true or false about filiment brightness. greg |
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