OK, I bought it. At least for now.

Disclaimer:
I don't like Mackie or Behringer particularly.

What you get:

For 200 sinking US dollars you get a small, fairly solid looking unit
with 8 preamps, two ADAT in-out, a word clock and some silly lights.

The mike pres are XLR and there is ALSO a line in TRS on the same gain
pot. Plug your eight mikes in and hook it up to an 8 channel recorder
and away you go. Plug the ADAT out into the Behringer and you can
monitor out the back, XLR only. In short, 8 pres, 8 channels AD/DA.

44.1 or 48 kHz, 24 bit only.
Global phantom power, didn't measure it.


Yes, I opened it up.
Inside is mostly empty space *gasp*.
There is a printed circuit board which is mostly surface mount but you
could yank out some the colored thingies without a meltdown.
Doing so would probably void your warranty, BTW.

Behind the knobs is a hidden circuit board that I did not take out.
This one is smaller and looks to control the pots & knobbies.

Oh yes, there is a TORROIDAL in the corner. No kidding.
Yes, there are some chips that said Alesis on them. Other than that,
they didn't say much.

Test setup:
Two matched Sennheiser MKH 20 mikes (omni, VERY quiet)
Canare stereo snake
An audio upgrades preamp
A custom made with custom transformer "more quiet than anything"
preamp
A Mytek 8x96 converter for reference
A French double manual harpsichord based on Ruckers/Goujon
A Fostex D2424 (not the Low Value)
A pile of connectors and a fostex optical/coaxial converter

I tried out a bunch of acoustic instruments and settled in the
harpsichord as the instrument that was going to really put it to the
test.
Pipe organ was runner up.
The harpsichord produces a very consistent sound from take to take as
the volume is nearly identical if the keystroke is kept at a
reasonable speed.

Four setups:
Behringer pres, B converters

My pres, B converters--through the line jack, turned lowish
My pres, Fostex built in converters

My Pres, Mytek converters

Note that I could not test the Behringer pres by themselves


And the winner is......
Gee I wonder.


I was very intrigued by the Behringer pres as I had heard that they
were A. Bright B. Dark C. Noisy D. quiet.

Obviously a lot of Rashomon fans out there.

First off, the gain, while sufficient, is just not cranking. 10 am on
my transformer preamp equalled 2 pm on the B. Won't crank a ribbon.
Sorry. Anything else, just enough.
If you use the line in WHICH YOU SHOULD, however, you are more than
fine.
The knobs have little clicks in them which is nice.

I would describe the sound quality as on the dark side, with an
undertone of cough syrup. I actually like cough syrup, but only a few
spoonfuls. Dark but not revealing perhaps, a tad thick. Not
unpleasant; not bright. Perhaps not quite as soothing as the best
cough syrup. There are those who might say tooby, not me.

Would I use the preamps?
No. Er, well, maybe.

OK, I hook up my preamps to the line in, set lowish. Plenty O' gain
now. And the result?

Very nice.
Yes, it is very nice. Smooth, quiet, semidetailed. Nice treble, nice
bass. Good converter. And better than a lot of very expensive boxes
out there, no question. (Ye shall remain nameless, ye overpriced
preverters.) At least, if you have a good preamp.
Not very colored--the color comes from the pres!

OK, fine. I hook up the pres to the Fostex converters.
The behringer is a tad better. A little smoother.
A very slight difference.

OK, getting majorly bored AND there is just a collosal mess in the
house. I hook up the Mytek.

The Mytek is better. More transparent. Tighter bass, whatever that
means. Difference is slight, as you would expect when comparing
reasonably built converters. Treble is similar, perhaps not as
accurate on after-ring tones.
Well, geez, it should be better. But ya know, it was not a lot better,
it was just a bit better. But it IS better. BTW, the mytek is a fine
converter for orchestra work or just about anything else.

Is it quiet enough?
Yes, it is. The sennheisers should know.

Is it as quiet as the Mytek? It is quiet, but there is a "frisson" of
junk in the sound that probably comes from the gain stage.
You will not hear it unless you crank the volume ALL the way, which
you shouldn't anyway. Could be if you fussed with it there would be a
sweet spot between line in and gain.

If I had to record an orchestra with 24 tracks 12 of which were Mytek
and 8 were Behringer, would I do it?

Yup.

Would I rather have 3 Myteks or two Myteks and a Troisi?

Yes, but it would be heavy to cart around.

Will I keep it?

Can't decide. Like the converters, don't like the pres. The pres
aren't bad, and they are quiet enough, they just aren't for me.
It occurs to me if you have bright mics, which I do not, this might be
the thing. The pres sound way better than whatever is in the cheesy
little Behringer mixer I bought and then returned, BTW--even if it is
the same circuit it isn't going through the Styrofoam EQ section.
I do a lot of Orchestra work, and I need the pres to be better for the
vast array of sounds. Plus transparency.

Will it break? It is more solid than most.
Could you mod the preamps?
Hard to say. Looks like there is room for some audio upgrades cards,
benchmark cards or something similar. The ICs would be a beast, IMHO.

Conclusion:

A nice box limited by somewhat muddy pres. Nice converter. Converter
quiet due no doubt to the excellent power supply and probably the
Alesis chips.
A real bargain. Recommended with reservations noted above. Converters
have come a long way.

jj

Conclusion:

A nice box limited by somewhat muddy pres. Nice converter. Converter
quiet due no doubt to the excellent power supply and probably the
Alesis chips.
A real bargain. Recommended with reservations noted above. Converters
have come a long way.

could it(4 of them) be used to create a a to d snake feeding a yamaha Dm
series mixer for live sound?
george



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In article , Mike
wrote:

"George Gleason" wrote in news:RQ3Bb.416399
:

could it(4 of them) be used to create a a to d snake feeding a yamaha Dm
series mixer for live sound?

2 things come to mind there -

What's the limit on the length of the optical cable for ADAT lightpipe?

Having the gain pots onstage might be a little tiresome.

the desks have gain as well so I would set the a/d to some small
nominal gain then mix like usual
I have no idea on the lightpipe, there is one that would let run cat 5
for up to 64 channels of audio
but they are 800$ ea
George

"Mike" wrote in message

George wrote in
:




I have no idea on the lightpipe, there is one that would let run cat
5 for up to 64 channels of audio
but they are 800$ ea
George



4 x ADA8000 would be that much, & cat5 is a lot cheaper than
lightpipe, no?

How do lightpipe to coax converters work with Adat? They run about $15 each
these days.

"Mike" wrote in message
...
George wrote in
:




I have no idea on the lightpipe, there is one that would let run cat 5
for up to 64 channels of audio
but they are 800$ ea
George



4 x ADA8000 would be that much, & cat5 is a lot cheaper than lightpipe,
no?

each 8 ch would be 800$ so 3200$ to get 32 channels
George


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George Gleason wrote:

"Mike" wrote in message
...

George wrote in
:



I have no idea on the lightpipe, there is one that would let run cat 5
for up to 64 channels of audio
but they are 800$ ea

4 x ADA8000 would be that much, & cat5 is a lot cheaper than lightpipe,

no?

each 8 ch would be 800$ so 3200$ to get 32 channels


Or use an RME ADI-648 at each end
http://www.rme-audio.com/english/adi/adi648.htm

FYI it will run the fiber and coax connectors in redundant mode so you
can have a backup line between them. Switching is not instantaneous,
but better than relying on a single cable.

Mike wrote in :

Kurt Albershardt wrote in news:1070936384.367924
@nnrp1.phx1.gblx.net:

Or use an RME ADI-648 at each end


At $2799 list per 8 channel...


Ooops, use eyes before fingers on keys. That's for 64 channels - still more
than $3200 for 32 channels.

In article writes:

What's the limit on the length of the optical cable for ADAT lightpipe?

Generally it's considered to be 10 meters, but in reality, it's
whatever works. The long digital snakes tend to use Ethernet cable
(though not necessarily an Ethernet protocol).

Having the gain pots onstage might be a little tiresome.


True, if things change a lot, but the concept of digital snakes for
sound reinforcement is still a pretty high-end thing, shows that can
afford to have a dedicated channel for everything, where the basic
preamp gain can be set once and left alone. If the singer plays
trombone into his vocal mic, you might have a problem.



--
I'm really Mike Rivers )
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me he double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo

Mike Rivers wrote:

What's the limit on the length of the optical cable for ADAT lightpipe?

Generally it's considered to be 10 meters, but in reality, it's
whatever works.

We've found that 14m is a good max length spec that works with
everything we've tried.

--
Len Moskowitz PDAudio, Binaural Mics, Cables, DPA, M-Audio
Core Sound http://www.stealthmicrophones.com
Teaneck, New Jersey USA http://www.core-sound.com
Tel: 201-801-0812, FAX: 201-801-0912

"Len Moskowitz" wrote in message
...
Mike Rivers wrote:

What's the limit on the length of the optical cable for ADAT lightpipe?

Generally it's considered to be 10 meters, but in reality, it's
whatever works.

We've found that 14m is a good max length spec that works with
everything we've tried.

not long enough for me I need 100 meters minimum
George


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So if Behringer released a two channel version of this ada for $85-$99
bucks it would pressure low $$ mic pres liken RNP for example?

On Mon, 08 Dec 2003 00:46:10 GMT, J. Joyce
wrote:

OK, I bought it. At least for now.

Disclaimer:
I don't like Mackie or Behringer particularly.

What you get:

For 200 sinking US dollars you get a small, fairly solid looking unit
with 8 preamps, two ADAT in-out, a word clock and some silly lights.

The mike pres are XLR and there is ALSO a line in TRS on the same gain
pot. Plug your eight mikes in and hook it up to an 8 channel recorder
and away you go. Plug the ADAT out into the Behringer and you can
monitor out the back, XLR only. In short, 8 pres, 8 channels AD/DA.

44.1 or 48 kHz, 24 bit only.
Global phantom power, didn't measure it.


Yes, I opened it up.
Inside is mostly empty space *gasp*.
There is a printed circuit board which is mostly surface mount but you
could yank out some the colored thingies without a meltdown.
Doing so would probably void your warranty, BTW.

Behind the knobs is a hidden circuit board that I did not take out.
This one is smaller and looks to control the pots & knobbies.

Oh yes, there is a TORROIDAL in the corner. No kidding.
Yes, there are some chips that said Alesis on them. Other than that,
they didn't say much.

Test setup:
Two matched Sennheiser MKH 20 mikes (omni, VERY quiet)
Canare stereo snake
An audio upgrades preamp
A custom made with custom transformer "more quiet than anything"
preamp
A Mytek 8x96 converter for reference
A French double manual harpsichord based on Ruckers/Goujon
A Fostex D2424 (not the Low Value)
A pile of connectors and a fostex optical/coaxial converter

I tried out a bunch of acoustic instruments and settled in the
harpsichord as the instrument that was going to really put it to the
test.
Pipe organ was runner up.
The harpsichord produces a very consistent sound from take to take as
the volume is nearly identical if the keystroke is kept at a
reasonable speed.

Four setups:
Behringer pres, B converters

My pres, B converters--through the line jack, turned lowish
My pres, Fostex built in converters

My Pres, Mytek converters

Note that I could not test the Behringer pres by themselves


And the winner is......
Gee I wonder.


I was very intrigued by the Behringer pres as I had heard that they
were A. Bright B. Dark C. Noisy D. quiet.

Obviously a lot of Rashomon fans out there.

First off, the gain, while sufficient, is just not cranking. 10 am on
my transformer preamp equalled 2 pm on the B. Won't crank a ribbon.
Sorry. Anything else, just enough.
If you use the line in WHICH YOU SHOULD, however, you are more than
fine.
The knobs have little clicks in them which is nice.

I would describe the sound quality as on the dark side, with an
undertone of cough syrup. I actually like cough syrup, but only a few
spoonfuls. Dark but not revealing perhaps, a tad thick. Not
unpleasant; not bright. Perhaps not quite as soothing as the best
cough syrup. There are those who might say tooby, not me.

Would I use the preamps?
No. Er, well, maybe.

OK, I hook up my preamps to the line in, set lowish. Plenty O' gain
now. And the result?

Very nice.
Yes, it is very nice. Smooth, quiet, semidetailed. Nice treble, nice
bass. Good converter. And better than a lot of very expensive boxes
out there, no question. (Ye shall remain nameless, ye overpriced
preverters.) At least, if you have a good preamp.
Not very colored--the color comes from the pres!

OK, fine. I hook up the pres to the Fostex converters.
The behringer is a tad better. A little smoother.
A very slight difference.

OK, getting majorly bored AND there is just a collosal mess in the
house. I hook up the Mytek.

The Mytek is better. More transparent. Tighter bass, whatever that
means. Difference is slight, as you would expect when comparing
reasonably built converters. Treble is similar, perhaps not as
accurate on after-ring tones.
Well, geez, it should be better. But ya know, it was not a lot better,
it was just a bit better. But it IS better. BTW, the mytek is a fine
converter for orchestra work or just about anything else.

Is it quiet enough?
Yes, it is. The sennheisers should know.

Is it as quiet as the Mytek? It is quiet, but there is a "frisson" of
junk in the sound that probably comes from the gain stage.
You will not hear it unless you crank the volume ALL the way, which
you shouldn't anyway. Could be if you fussed with it there would be a
sweet spot between line in and gain.

If I had to record an orchestra with 24 tracks 12 of which were Mytek
and 8 were Behringer, would I do it?

Yup.

Would I rather have 3 Myteks or two Myteks and a Troisi?

Yes, but it would be heavy to cart around.

Will I keep it?

Can't decide. Like the converters, don't like the pres. The pres
aren't bad, and they are quiet enough, they just aren't for me.
It occurs to me if you have bright mics, which I do not, this might be
the thing. The pres sound way better than whatever is in the cheesy
little Behringer mixer I bought and then returned, BTW--even if it is
the same circuit it isn't going through the Styrofoam EQ section.
I do a lot of Orchestra work, and I need the pres to be better for the
vast array of sounds. Plus transparency.

Will it break? It is more solid than most.
Could you mod the preamps?
Hard to say. Looks like there is room for some audio upgrades cards,
benchmark cards or something similar. The ICs would be a beast, IMHO.

Conclusion:

A nice box limited by somewhat muddy pres. Nice converter. Converter
quiet due no doubt to the excellent power supply and probably the
Alesis chips.
A real bargain. Recommended with reservations noted above. Converters
have come a long way.

jj

fla z e % h otm ail.c om wrote in news:iagitvkr74jiq33aj7pbks3dmgel05nmtc@
4ax.com:

So if Behringer released a two channel version of this ada for $85-$99
bucks it would pressure low $$ mic pres liken RNP for example?



I was under the impression that the mic pres in the ADA8000 were the same
as in the UB series mixers? In which case, no.

The original poster said the A/D/A converters were pretty nice, but the mike
preamps were pretty crappy. So a cheap 2-channel version wouldn't pressure the
RNP at all.

Besides, there's a limit to how cheap it's gonna be; you still need a power
supply and a box.

Peace,
Paul

(P Stamler) wrote :

The original poster said the A/D/A converters were pretty nice, but
the mike preamps were pretty crappy. So a cheap 2-channel version
wouldn't pressure the RNP at all.

Dunno which post you read, but the one I read did not say that at all, just
that the pres are not for him..

As I own two of these and use them with my DDX 3216 I must say I agree with
him on the pres, they are a bit 'on the dark side'which in itself is not a
bad thing, it just might not be your cup of tea..

--
Bill Gates can't guarantee Windows,
how are you gonna guarantee my safety..
--John Crichton - Farscape pilot

In article fla z e % h otm ail.c om writes:

So if Behringer released a two channel version of this ada for $85-$99
bucks it would pressure low $$ mic pres liken RNP for example?

For some, yet. If there was a mic preamp with A/D converter, it had
S/PDIF optical output, 48 volt phantom power, had 60 dB of gain, and
cost less than $100, I'd certainly try one as the front end of my
Jukebox 3. I don't want to spend $500 improving a $300 recorder, but
I'll throw $100 at it if there's a chance that it will work pretty
well. It doen't need to be an RNP for my applications (but it wouldn't
hurt either).




--
I'm really Mike Rivers - )
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me he double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo