"MiNE 109" wrote in message

In article ,
"Arny Krueger" wrote:

"MiNE 109" wrote in message

In article ,
"Arny Krueger" wrote:

Arny said


I've heard Vandersteens on several occasions, though only with
amps that matched their modest efficiency.

How did they sound to you? Like hell?

No, they sounded pretty good, but like I said they were used with
amplifiers that had enough power, not the peanut whistles you
recommended.

Vandersteen recommends 40-160 watts for the 2Ce. Jolida makes
integrated amps with 40, 50, 60, 70 and 100 watts.

Nice stab at a Schoepenhauer type one argument. You deceptively
removed the text where I limited my comments to amps that had
typical power output for tubed amplifiers, which is 35 wpc or less.

Talk about Schoepenhauer: Scott wasn't talking about "typical" tube
amps; he mentioned Jolida specifically as a brand.

That fact that a brand includes some much-larger-than typical tubed amps
does not change the fact that they are much-larger-than-typical.

Vandersteen recommends 40-160 watts for the 2Ce. Jolida makes
integrated amps with 40, 50, 60, 70 and 100 watts. You might not want
to use the 25 watt integrated or the 8 watt SET integrated, but it
looks like Jolida has five models that should work.

None of them fit into the limits indicated by the text that I wrote
and you deleted, Stephen.

If you were talking about amps "that had typical power output for
tubed amplifiers, which is 35 wpc or less" then how do those models
not qualify?

I guess you can't do inequalities, Stephen. 40, 50, 60, 70 and 100 are
greater than 35.

Or do you mean the 5 models of Jolida integrated amp you were unaware
of when you responded to "Jolida" with "peanut whistles"?

I was aware of those amps, however even you've agreed Stephen that the 40,
50, 60, 70 and 100 watt Jolida amps are larger than average.

Besides, I didn't comment on your statements.

True, you backtracked and deleted text until you had arguments that were
weakened to the point where you thought you could deal with them.

"S888Wheel" wrote in message


Perhaps its due to the fact that I can audition equipment with
recordings based on live performances that I was intimately involved
with?

Perhaps not. Just because you make crappy recordings doesn't mean you
are any less incompetent at evaluating audio.

Shows your naiveté and narrow understanding of audio sockpuppet wheel. Some
live performances aren't all that great, and so live recordings of them are
well, constrained. Nevertheless they can be good representations of the live
performance if effectively reproduced. Audio is about reproduction.

In article %F1pb.51605$gi2.23326@fed1read01,
"ScottW" wrote:

"MiNE 109" wrote in message
...

I've heard good results from the NAD C340, despite some gain problems
with some sources. ScottW reports similar problems with a Krell amp, so
maybe it's not a question of price.

My problem is on the front end in my pre-amp. I would like about 6 db
of additional gain but I still am able to enjoy my vinyl.
I have no problem with sound levels of my CD into a passive attenuator
into the same amp.
The amp has no problem driving the Quads to decent
sound levels with a decent input level.

It could be that the NAD preamp section is noiser that the preamp it
replaced. The problem was more evident on classical lps which needed the
preamp to be turned almost to maximum volume.

Stephen

In article ,
"Arny Krueger" wrote:

"MiNE 109" wrote in message

In article ,
"Arny Krueger" wrote:

"MiNE 109" wrote in message

In article ,
"Arny Krueger" wrote:

Arny said


I've heard Vandersteens on several occasions, though only with
amps that matched their modest efficiency.

How did they sound to you? Like hell?

No, they sounded pretty good, but like I said they were used with
amplifiers that had enough power, not the peanut whistles you
recommended.

Vandersteen recommends 40-160 watts for the 2Ce. Jolida makes
integrated amps with 40, 50, 60, 70 and 100 watts.

Nice stab at a Schoepenhauer type one argument. You deceptively
removed the text where I limited my comments to amps that had
typical power output for tubed amplifiers, which is 35 wpc or less.

Talk about Schoepenhauer: Scott wasn't talking about "typical" tube
amps; he mentioned Jolida specifically as a brand.

That fact that a brand includes some much-larger-than typical tubed amps
does not change the fact that they are much-larger-than-typical.

You're only repeating your Schopenhauer. Scott mentioned a specific
brand, therefore excluding whatever you think is "typical"

Vandersteen recommends 40-160 watts for the 2Ce. Jolida makes
integrated amps with 40, 50, 60, 70 and 100 watts. You might not want
to use the 25 watt integrated or the 8 watt SET integrated, but it
looks like Jolida has five models that should work.

None of them fit into the limits indicated by the text that I wrote
and you deleted, Stephen.

If you were talking about amps "that had typical power output for
tubed amplifiers, which is 35 wpc or less" then how do those models
not qualify?

I guess you can't do inequalities, Stephen. 40, 50, 60, 70 and 100 are
greater than 35.

Coincidentally, those are the wattages of the amps Scott cited.

Or do you mean the 5 models of Jolida integrated amp you were unaware
of when you responded to "Jolida" with "peanut whistles"?

I was aware of those amps, however even you've agreed Stephen that the 40,
50, 60, 70 and 100 watt Jolida amps are larger than average.

Larger than the average Jolida? What happened to "amplifiers that had
enough power, not the peanut whistles you [Scott] recommended."? Your
"not" seems to exclude Jolida, the amps Scott recommended.

It's one thing to stick to your general comments about tube amps; it's
another to say you didn't mean Jolida because you were aware of their
higher powered models. You replied specifically to the mention of Jolida
tube amps.

Besides, I didn't comment on your statements.

True, you backtracked and deleted text until you had arguments that were
weakened to the point where you thought you could deal with them.

The things I chose not to include in my reply were your "typical
thermionic figurative peanut-whistle" bit, which doesn't follow the
argument of Jolida/Vandersteen systems (besides, you repeated it in the
bit I included), and a paragraph about "the old mix and match
components...gambit" which also does not apply. This last is especially
Krugerian in that you responded to Scott's specific argument with a
general one, then claim "gambit" when he tried to return to his specific
point.

On Sun, 2 Nov 2003 06:21:20 -0500, "Arny Krueger"
wrote:

That fact that a brand includes some much-larger-than typical tubed amps
does not change the fact that they are much-larger-than-typical.

Why do you say this? You making out like over 35 wpc amps are rare.
They aren't.

Heck, companies like Audio Research and VTL *rarely* have amps that
small. Heck, even VTL's *integrated amp* has 60 - 80 wpc. And those
are two of the biggest names in the tube business.

Maybe you're still stuck in your mind in the early 60s or something,
times when 45 wpc was pushing the upper limits of what's available
(amps like my Fisher X202).

Your statement the "typical" tube amp is 35 wpc or less is just wrong.
You make it sound like amps like that are rare and unusual. They
aren't.

Arny said


Perhaps its due to the fact that I can audition equipment with
recordings based on live performances that I was intimately involved
with?

I said


Perhaps not. Just because you make crappy recordings doesn't mean you
are any less incompetent at evaluating audio.

Arny said

Shows your naiveté and narrow understanding of audio sockpuppet wheel.

How?

Arny said

Some
live performances aren't all that great, and so live recordings of them are
well, constrained. Nevertheless they can be good representations of the live
performance if effectively reproduced. Audio is about reproduction.

How does this general claim make *you* any more competent at evaluating audio
products than me? Do you even remember your original claim?

dave weil wrote:

On Sun, 2 Nov 2003 06:21:20 -0500, "Arny Krueger"
wrote:


That fact that a brand includes some much-larger-than typical tubed amps
does not change the fact that they are much-larger-than-typical.


Why do you say this? You making out like over 35 wpc amps are rare.
They aren't.

Heck, companies like Audio Research and VTL *rarely* have amps that
small. Heck, even VTL's *integrated amp* has 60 - 80 wpc. And those
are two of the biggest names in the tube business.

Maybe you're still stuck in your mind in the early 60s or something,
times when 45 wpc was pushing the upper limits of what's available
(amps like my Fisher X202).

Your statement the "typical" tube amp is 35 wpc or less is just wrong.
You make it sound like amps like that are rare and unusual. They
aren't.

These days tube amps of 35 wpc or less are atypical, niche
products for those who love super efficient speakers and
tiny triodes.

Nexus 6

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
...

Audio is about reproduction.

No. It doesn't have to be that way at all.
I decided that pursuing live sound level accuracy
is not going to provide the most entertaining and
satisfying home audio experience for me.

So I don't.

ScottW

On Sun, 02 Nov 2003 11:18:27 -0600, Nexus 6
wrote:



dave weil wrote:

On Sun, 2 Nov 2003 06:21:20 -0500, "Arny Krueger"
wrote:


That fact that a brand includes some much-larger-than typical tubed amps
does not change the fact that they are much-larger-than-typical.


Why do you say this? You making out like over 35 wpc amps are rare.
They aren't.

Heck, companies like Audio Research and VTL *rarely* have amps that
small. Heck, even VTL's *integrated amp* has 60 - 80 wpc. And those
are two of the biggest names in the tube business.

Maybe you're still stuck in your mind in the early 60s or something,
times when 45 wpc was pushing the upper limits of what's available
(amps like my Fisher X202).

Your statement the "typical" tube amp is 35 wpc or less is just wrong.
You make it sound like amps like that are rare and unusual. They
aren't.

These days tube amps of 35 wpc or less are atypical, niche
products for those who love super efficient speakers and
tiny triodes.

Nexus 6

That was my thought as well. Maybe it's the fact that they seem to get
more press that mislead Arnold.

On Sun, 02 Nov 2003 11:58:07 -0600, dave weil
wrote:

That was my thought as well. Maybe it's the fact that they seem to get
more press that mislead Arnold.

Or misled, even.