[Z-Man]

I currently have a Pod xt, a Pod xt Live, a Pod X3 Live, and a
Digitech vx400 all connected to my computer via USB. I also have a 4-
input M-Audio Omnistudio with connected to the motherboard through an
M-Audio Delta-66 sound card. One channel on this device is dead.
This gives me 11 inputs. I'm wondering if I will overload the
computer. Is there a limit to how many USB devices can record at the
same time? It's a new, very fast computer with dual hard drives set
up for speed rather than being mirrored. Will there be some kind of
latency problem because I'm using a bunch of different kinds of
devices? Is there a limit to how much data the USB side of the
computer can handle? Is it better to have the recording inputs spread
around a few different devices, or will this cause a problem? I'm
currently mixing drum overheads and toms into two stereo tracks. Kick
and snare are on separate tracks, although I think I can do without
the extra snare mic. We have bass, vocals, and two guitars. So
that's 7 tracks recording at the same time, 8 if I use the snare mic.
I'm recording at 16/44.1. If I ditch the snare mic, I can unplug the
Digitech vx400.
Thanks!
Z-Man

[Peter Larsen[_2_]]

Z-Man wrote:

I currently have a Pod xt, a Pod xt Live, a Pod X3 Live, and a
Digitech vx400 all connected to my computer via USB. I also have a 4-
input M-Audio Omnistudio with connected to the motherboard through an
M-Audio Delta-66 sound card. One channel on this device is dead.
This gives me 11 inputs. I'm wondering if I will overload the
computer.

No, not the the computer. But you will have clock problems and I would be
surprised if you did not also get buffer over- and/or underruns.

Is there a limit to how many USB devices can record at the
same time? It's a new, very fast computer with dual hard drives set
up for speed rather than being mirrored.

Set up for speed, did you ever try to benchmark transfer rate on striped vs.
non-striped drives. Last time I did that - a couple of years ago - the bus
was the limit, ie. zero actual gain.

Will there be some kind of
latency problem because I'm using a bunch of different kinds of
devices?

The audio will get confused and never make it to the computer.

Is there a limit to how much data the USB side of the
computer can handle?

There is no simple answer to this.

Is it better to have the recording inputs spread
around a few different devices, or will this cause a problem? I'm
currently mixing drum overheads and toms into two stereo tracks. Kick
and snare are on separate tracks, although I think I can do without
the extra snare mic. We have bass, vocals, and two guitars. So
that's 7 tracks recording at the same time, 8 if I use the snare mic.

Get an 8 input audio solution if you want to record 8 tracks, one of the
usable choices would be a 1010LT.

I'm recording at 16/44.1. If I ditch the snare mic, I can unplug the
Digitech vx400.
Thanks!

Just my opinion, didn't browse the web to find out what all the mentioned
contraps are about, you setup is just too complicated for its own good - if
you want the tracks syncronised they have to be on the same digital clock.

Z-Man

Kind regards

Peter Larsen

[Laurence Payne]

On Tue, 30 Oct 2007 20:02:50 -0700, Z-Man wrote:

I currently have a Pod xt, a Pod xt Live, a Pod X3 Live, and a
Digitech vx400 all connected to my computer via USB. I also have a 4-
input M-Audio Omnistudio with connected to the motherboard through an
M-Audio Delta-66 sound card. One channel on this device is dead.
This gives me 11 inputs. I'm wondering if I will overload the
computer. Is there a limit to how many USB devices can record at the
same time? It's a new, very fast computer with dual hard drives set
up for speed rather than being mirrored.

Don't bother. The disk interface on a single unit is not going to be
a limiting factor on a modern computer. And you're not recording THAT
many tracks. All you're doing is wasting electricity and making your
computer rather noisier than it would have been.

Will there be some kind of
latency problem because I'm using a bunch of different kinds of
devices? Is there a limit to how much data the USB side of the
computer can handle? Is it better to have the recording inputs spread
around a few different devices, or will this cause a problem? I'm
currently mixing drum overheads and toms into two stereo tracks. Kick
and snare are on separate tracks, although I think I can do without
the extra snare mic. We have bass, vocals, and two guitars. So
that's 7 tracks recording at the same time, 8 if I use the snare mic.
I'm recording at 16/44.1. If I ditch the snare mic, I can unplug the
Digitech vx400.

Throw all the USB stuff away and get a single interface with the
number of inputs you need. ("Single interface" can include multiple
cards from the same family that can share a driver and link clocks.
Your Delta 66 will play nice with another Delta card, possibly a Delta
1010.)

[Richard Crowley]

"Z-Man" wrote ...
I currently have a Pod xt, a Pod xt Live, a Pod X3 Live,
and a Digitech vx400 all connected to my computer via
USB. I also have a 4-input M-Audio Omnistudio with
connected to the motherboard through an M-Audio Delta-
66 sound card. One channel on this device is dead.
This gives me 11 inputs. I'm wondering if I will overload
the computer.

What is your definition of "overload the computer"?
You are the only one who can do the experiment
since none of us have your exact combination of
USB sound gadgets and your computer.

Is there a limit to how many USB devices can record
at the same time? It's a new, very fast computer with
dual hard drives set up for speed rather than being
mirrored.

Maybe. Depends on the specific computer setup.
Modern drives typically don't need to be operated in
parallel to keep up with multi-track audio. They don't
even need that solution for SD video. RAID is an old
solution to a problem that mostly doesn't exist anymore.

Will there be some kind of latency problem because
I'm using a bunch of different kinds of devices?

The show-stopper problem is that all the different devices
all are clocking at slightly different rates and your tracks
will never synchronize.

Is there a limit to how much data the USB side of the
computer can handle?

Probably, but it is likely limited by the design of the
mother-board hardware (and maybe the drives, etc.)

Is it better to have the recording inputs spread
around a few different devices,

NO that is exactly what you DON'T want to do.

or will this cause a problem?

It is guaranteed to cause a problem because the sampling
rate of the various devices are uncorrelated.

[Richard Crowley]

"Richard Crowley" wrote ...
"Z-Man" wrote ...
Is there a limit to how much data the USB side of the
computer can handle?

Probably, but it is likely limited by the design of the
mother-board hardware (and maybe the drives, etc.)

Make that "drivers" (software) not "drives" (hardware)!

[Z-Man]

Throw away all of our PODs? That's a good one. The idea is to record
using all of the same sound settings we use live. Is the issue that
USB is inherently bad, or will the tracks be milliseconds out of synch
because of the different devices? I'd imagine all 3 of the Line6
devices would work well together. I'm more concerned about a
difference between the M-Audio device and the Line6 devices. I've
recorded my band many times before using the M-Audio device and one
PODxt. I can't hear any timing problems. When I test the 7-input
setup, all of the devices seem to be working fine. Since all of our
POD gear has USB outs, I would really like to use them. However, I'm
not opposed to purchasing more hardware. Maybe there is a problem I
can't hear. Any other thoughts? Is having a dedicated sound card
better than using one of those mixers with USB built-in? This one
looks pretty cool, plus it has 3 AUX outs, which would be nice live:

http://www.music123.com/Yamaha-MG166...22411.Music123

I know firewire is faster than regular USB, but it might not be an
issue if we're only recording 7 or 8 tracks at once.

[Scott Dorsey]

Z-Man wrote:
Throw away all of our PODs? That's a good one. The idea is to record
using all of the same sound settings we use live.

Why? What sounds good live is often totally inappropriate in the studio.
--scott


--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[Richard Crowley]

"Z-Man" wrote ...
Throw away all of our PODs? That's a good one.

Its up to you. You can try it and see if it works for you.

The idea is to record using all of the same sound settings
we use live.

That seems completely independent of what device(s)
you choose to record with. Unless you left out some
details we don't know about.

Is the issue that USB is inherently bad,

No, there is nothing "inherently bad" about USB.

or will the tracks be milliseconds out of synch
because of the different devices?

Yes, That is the show-stopper problem.

I'd imagine all 3 of the Line6 devices would work well together.
I'm more concerned about a difference between the M-Audio
device and the Line6 devices.

They all use inexpensive mass-produced crystals for timing and
there is no reason why the Line6 devices would track each other
any better than any other two random devices of the same (or
different) manufacture. Your imagination is better applied to
making music.

I've recorded my band many times before using the M-Audio
device and one PODxt. I can't hear any timing problems.
When I test the 7-input setup, all of the devices seem to be
working fine. Since all of our POD gear has USB outs, I
would really like to use them.

If it works for you go for it.

However, I'm not opposed to purchasing more hardware.
Maybe there is a problem I can't hear.

How long was the recording? The shorter, the more likely
they are to stay in sync "long enough".

Any other thoughts? Is having a dedicated sound card
better than using one of those mixers with USB built-in?

Professionals typically prefer separate components so that
they have the option of using the "best of breed" for each
function (mic preamp, mixer, converter, etc.)

I know firewire is faster than regular USB, but it might not
be an issue if we're only recording 7 or 8 tracks at once.

Devices that use many (~8) tracks are more likely to use
Firewire because of the greater bandwidth capacity.

[Michael Oswald]

Z-Man wrote:

I currently have a Pod xt, a Pod xt Live, a Pod X3 Live, and a
Digitech vx400 all connected to my computer via USB. I also have a 4-

Ahem, AFAIK the PODxt and xt Live only provide their audio signal over the
output jacks and not over the USB which is only for controlling it. Don't
know if this is true for the X3, I think I read somewhere that you can
record with it from USB, but I am not sure. In this case, there will
probably be sync problems with the X3.

As for the XTs its like any other amp connected to a Audio input on the
Delta so there should be no problems there.

I use a PODxt for demo recording with a SaffireLE and my XT only puts out
the audio over the jacks, which got directly to the Saffire preamps.

Generally speaking, IIRC when you use a lot of USB devices with high data
load, the response times are not guaranteed, that's why USB took some time
to get to the audio interfaces market. Firewire is a lot better here, but
IMHO nothing beats PCI cards in terms of performance.

Just give it a try, and listen carefully.


hth,
Michael

[Z-Man]

Thanks for your comments, everyone--I'm learning a lot.

Just to clear a few things up: Yes, all of those Line6 devices are
recognized by my recording software and enter the computer via USB.
If we don't use the USB outs on the PODs, we'll use the balanced TRS
outs. The Line6 speaker and mic emulation are better than anything I
can accomplish on a low budget in my basement in the few hours a week
I get to spend on this. It's also nice to get complete separation in
the tracks. We're doing all of this in a fairly small room. Plus, we
want our recording to sound exactly the same as we do live--same
guitar tones, delay, chorus, reverb, etc.

Thanks for being patient with me--I have two more questions:

Are the POD USB outs useless, even for overdubs? It's sounding like
I'll have synchronization issues. Do you guys know this from
experience? Keep in mind, I'm a hobbyist, not a professional. My
band plays for $500 and all the beer we can drink. We're making a
demo we can sell, give out to our friends, and use to book gigs.

Most of the recording boxes that attach to sound cards just have a
bunch of line-ins. It seems like you're getting a lot more for your
money when you buy a mixer with USB or Firewire capability. I'd
rather not spend more than $500, and I don't want to have to buy a
mixer as well. Our practice mixer is a crappy Behringer thing I'd
like to get rid of. So I'm looking at the Alesis Multimix 16 Firewire
Mixer. It's 399, but I've had bad luck with an Alesis 12r mixer, and
it only has 2 AUX outs. Yamaha hardware has never let me down. The
$499 Yamaha MG166CX-USB-16-Channel-USB-Mixer has onboard compression,
and 3 AUX outs, which would be nice for a separate IEM mix. However,
the Yamaha is USB. If I'm only recording 7 or 8 tracks at a time,
will the limitations of USB be a problem? Has anyone used one of the
Yamaha USB mixers? Any other units I should consider?
Thanks,
Z

[Peter Larsen[_2_]]

Z-Man wrote:

Most of the recording boxes that attach to sound cards just have a
bunch of line-ins. It seems like you're getting a lot more for your
money when you buy a mixer with USB or Firewire capability.

Analyze your intended work flow, line inputs may be all you need.

I'd
rather not spend more than $500, and I don't want to have to buy a
mixer as well. Our practice mixer is a crappy Behringer thing I'd
like to get rid of. So I'm looking at the Alesis Multimix 16 Firewire
Mixer. It's 399, but I've had bad luck with an Alesis 12r mixer, and
it only has 2 AUX outs. Yamaha hardware has never let me down. The
$499 Yamaha MG166CX-USB-16-Channel-USB-Mixer has onboard compression,
and 3 AUX outs, which would be nice for a separate IEM mix. However,
the Yamaha is USB. If I'm only recording 7 or 8 tracks at a time,
will the limitations of USB be a problem? Has anyone used one of the
Yamaha USB mixers? Any other units I should consider?

M-audio has a fairly costly mixer thingie that allows you to record the
input channels independently.

I tend to think that the 1010lt and a Soundcraft EPM, only specs knowledge
as yet, no actual experience, may be all you need.

Thanks,
Z

Kind regards

Peter Larsen

[Z-Man]

As I've done more research, I've found out the USB mixers only let you
record one stereo mix to your computer, so those are out. The Alesis
Firewire mixer is affordable, but it got mixed reviews. Not sure what
to think of it. Now I'm looking at the Presonus Firepods. Any
thoughts on these?

[theryall]

On 31 Oct, 20:46, Z-Man wrote:
As I've done more research, I've found out the USB mixers only let you
record one stereo mix to your computer, so those are out. The AlesisFirewiremixeris affordable, but it got mixed reviews. Not sure what
to think of it. Now I'm looking at the Presonus Firepods. Any
thoughts on these?

Morning,

The Asio4all driver allows you to use multiple USB soundcards on one
PC: http://www.asio4all.com/

Sam.