[Gary Hendershot]

Hype or what?



"...the result is the world's first Mode Switching guitar amplifier."

"...Four years after this seemingly simple revelation, the Mackie
Hotwire VT12 emerges as the only tube amplifier capable of honestly
being associated with the words great tone, flexibility and
portability."



http://www.mackie.com/products/hotwire/index.html














C:\Gary_H@
http://garyhendershot.com/
(junk mail)

[Mike Rivers]

On Oct 30, 10:35 pm, Gary Hendershot
wrote:
Hype or what?

It's hype until the masses have seen and heard it. They didn't show it
at the AES show. Line 6 did show a new "hybrid" amplifier that's
similar but different than the Mackie. Maybe they'll have it at NAMM
in January. (which is actually a better place to introduce it
anyway).

I know that Greg Mackie has indeed been working on instrument
amplifiers for the past few years.

[Paul Stamler]

"Gary Hendershot" wrote in message
...

Hype or what?

Hype. It might possibly be a decent amplifier, although I worry about
calling something a "tube amplifier" and not revealing until the second page
that it's actually a MOSFET power amp with a switching power supply. In
essence, it sounds like the sort of thing SansAmp did, analog emulation of
other analog circuitry.

It has a *lot* of stuff on it, and in general gear with that many features
often sounds bad. But Greg Mackie's made a living over the years.

Peace,
Paul

[Still me..]

Mackie = Loud Corp. = Crate..?

Are they not now the same company?


JJTj

[Dr. Zontar]

On Oct 31, 8:19 am, Still me.. up.urs.con wrote:

Mackie = Loud Corp. = Crate..?

Are they not now the same company?

Gawd, I hope not. Maybe they're different companies owned by the same
corporation? I don't know. Not that all Crate geaar is junk, but some
of it is. Mackie, OTOH, is respected by pros.

BTW, does anyone know what Mackie intends to charge for this amp?

- Rich

[Scott Dorsey]

Mike Rivers wrote:
On Oct 30, 10:35 pm, Gary Hendershot
wrote:
Hype or what?

It's hype until the masses have seen and heard it. They didn't show it
at the AES show. Line 6 did show a new "hybrid" amplifier that's
similar but different than the Mackie. Maybe they'll have it at NAMM
in January. (which is actually a better place to introduce it
anyway).

I find it very confusing to note that everybody is building devices right
and left that are designed to emulate the sound Fender was getting more
than fifty years ago. Since the basic problem of how to make something
sound like that was solved way back when, anything else attempting to
emulate that _has_ to be hype. Just buy a Champ and be done with it...
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[Still me..]

Mackie = Loud Corp. = Crate..?

Are they not now the same company?

Gawd, I hope not. Maybe they're different companies owned by the same
corporation? I don't know. Not that all Crate geaar is junk, but some
of it is. Mackie, OTOH, is respected by pros.

I doubt big time that 'Loud Corp' will have cabs/chassis/assembly built
in another factory when they already have Crate. I agree, not all Crate
is ****, but too much of it is. And 'Mackie' has some crap, but most
of it is good. People were hoping Mackie would tighten up the Crate
stuff, but so far, it's the same old story with worse tech support.

It's all a price point thing, that is the bottom line. Like Fender and
Peavey, they design products to sell against the other company's gear at
that price point. Peavey does it much better then both FMIC and Loud, corp.

....and Peavey tech Support beats both of the others combined...

As far as the Mackie amp, I'll wait till I get to hear/see inside one.

BTW, does anyone know what Mackie intends to charge for this amp?

Who knows, but since Mackie never built amps before (AFAIK), I hope
it's not just a re-badged Crate project they want the Mackie name on
to get status. This is Mackie's chance to do it right, but judging
how Loud, corp. has handled things with Crate, I am doubting it big time.


JJTj






---------------------------------------------------
Nature's way is to take away from
those who have too much and give
it to those that have too little.

Man's way, on the contrary, is to
take away from those who have too
little to give more to those who
already have too much..

Lao Tsu, circa 490BC
---------------------------------------------------

[Don Pearce]

On Wed, 31 Oct 2007 09:39:50 -0400, Still me.. up.urs.con wrote:

---------------------------------------------------
Nature's way is to take away from
those who have too much and give
it to those that have too little.

Man's way, on the contrary, is to
take away from those who have too
little to give more to those who
already have too much..

Lao Tsu, circa 490BC
---------------------------------------------------

Lao Tsu knew jack **** about nature then.

d

--
Pearce Consulting
http://www.pearce.uk.com

[Gareth Magennis]

"Don Pearce" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 31 Oct 2007 09:39:50 -0400, Still me.. up.urs.con wrote:

---------------------------------------------------
Nature's way is to take away from
those who have too much and give
it to those that have too little.

Man's way, on the contrary, is to
take away from those who have too
little to give more to those who
already have too much..

Lao Tsu, circa 490BC
---------------------------------------------------

Lao Tsu knew jack **** about nature then.





Yes, I think Lao Tsu may have been smoking too much weed. That's just the
sort of Victim Mentality, reality distortion and cynicism you find with a
chronic dope habit.

[Scott Dorsey]

Still me.. ..some one who cares.. wrote:
Mackie = Loud Corp. = Crate..?

Are they not now the same company?

Gawd, I hope not. Maybe they're different companies owned by the same
corporation? I don't know. Not that all Crate geaar is junk, but some
of it is. Mackie, OTOH, is respected by pros.

I doubt big time that 'Loud Corp' will have cabs/chassis/assembly built
in another factory when they already have Crate. I agree, not all Crate
is ****, but too much of it is. And 'Mackie' has some crap, but most
of it is good. People were hoping Mackie would tighten up the Crate
stuff, but so far, it's the same old story with worse tech support.

And whatever happened to EAW anyway?
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[Mike Rivers]

On Oct 31, 8:19 am, Still me.. up.urs.con wrote:
Mackie = Loud Corp. = Crate..?
Are they not now the same company?

Both Mackie and Crate are LOUD Technologies companies. But they
actually have their own independent management. There are Mackie
mixer, Tapco mixers, and Crate mixers, too. Different markets,
different distribution, but LOUD gets the money no matter who sells
'em.

[Mike Rivers]

On Oct 31, 9:39 am, Still me.. up.urs.con wrote:

I doubt big time that 'Loud Corp' will have cabs/chassis/assembly built
in another factory when they already have Crate.

I don't know where Crate gear is built, but just about all of Mackie's
gear is built in China, and I would expect that the new amplifier will
be, as well. They've been working with Chinese manufacturing for more
than half a dozen years now, and they almost have it right.

I hope
it's not just a re-badged Crate project they want the Mackie name on
to get status.

Since as far as I know, Greg Mackie (the person - who is no longer an
owner of the Mackie company, but he's a consultant) has been the
primary designer of this amplifier, and he's never designed an
amplifier for Crate, it's really a Mackie product. Maybe it'll sound a
bit like a tube amplifier when you push that button, or maybe not.
It'll probably be a pretty decent amplifier though, at least for some
players. And like any other amplifier, some will hate it. And still
others won't be able to figure out what the big deal with it is (if
there really is one).

[Mike Rivers]

On Oct 31, 9:22 am, (Scott Dorsey) wrote:

I find it very confusing to note that everybody is building devices right
and left that are designed to emulate the sound Fender was getting more
than fifty years ago. Since the basic problem of how to make something
sound like that was solved way back when, anything else attempting to
emulate that _has_ to be hype.

The problem for manufacturers is to make something that sounds like an
old Fender but costs like a new Behringer. A few people can get all
the sound they need out of a Champ but others want a Twin, they want
it to weigh less than 20 pounds, cost less than $200, never need
repair, and fit in the back seat of their Prius.

[Still me..]

And whatever happened to EAW anyway?

EAW moved many years ago from Framingham Ma (when I worked for them)
to Whitinsville (sp?) MA, where they seem to be there still, but TTBOMK,
all construction is done elsewhere. Kenton F is one unsung hero in
the PA biz, and Loud, corp. was wise to tap his brain and knowledge.

In the 70's n 80's, EAW changed the world with some awesome, 'portable'
cabinets that just plain kicked ass. Loaded with H/duty RCF speakers,
(whom, I am told, make the Jensen line..I may be wrong), in horn loaded
super heavy wood (made in the same building) cabs, they sold them by the
truckloads. HUGE bass bins, GIANT 1-12 HORN cabs, ..ya had to be there.

Later..much later, I obtained a few of them. Stripped them of speakers,
and sold the cabs to a guy in Maine, who used them to play music to the
animals on his farm. A Potato truck came by and picked them up (no ****).

I left EAW when (what was then left of) Vox asked me to work with U2, but
they taught me how to re-cone speakers, and working under KF was awesome.


JJTj

[Scott Dorsey]

Mike Rivers wrote:
On Oct 31, 9:22 am, (Scott Dorsey) wrote:

I find it very confusing to note that everybody is building devices right
and left that are designed to emulate the sound Fender was getting more
than fifty years ago. Since the basic problem of how to make something
sound like that was solved way back when, anything else attempting to
emulate that _has_ to be hype.

The problem for manufacturers is to make something that sounds like an
old Fender but costs like a new Behringer. A few people can get all
the sound they need out of a Champ but others want a Twin, they want
it to weigh less than 20 pounds, cost less than $200, never need
repair, and fit in the back seat of their Prius.

Sheesh, they should just be glad they don't play piano. You can pick up
both a Champ and a Twin for a lot less than a Steinway and a Bosendorfer, and
they're a lot more convenient to travel with.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[Mike Rivers]

On Oct 31, 10:43 am, (Scott Dorsey) wrote:

Sheesh, they should just be glad they don't play piano. You can pick up
both a Champ and a Twin for a lot less than a Steinway and a Bosendorfer, and
they're a lot more convenient to travel with.

Yeah, but a CD of piano samples and a laptop computer is even more
convenient. And it will even play the piano part automatically so you
can play along on your guitar. g

[Fletch]

On Oct 30, 7:35 pm, Gary Hendershot
wrote:
Hype or what?

"...the result is the world's first Mode Switching guitar amplifier."

"...Four years after this seemingly simple revelation, the Mackie
Hotwire VT12 emerges as the only tube amplifier capable of honestly
being associated with the words great tone, flexibility and
portability."

http://www.mackie.com/products/hotwire/index.html

C:\Gary_H@http://garyhendershot.com/
(junk mail)


I think Seymour Duncan beat him to the punch twenty odd years back
with the Convertible. Now THAT was revolutionary in the amplifier
world at the time and way before amp modeling came along.

This is just a refinement of that concept, and so not truly original
at all. Mackie needs to do his homework and stop with the stupidity.

--Fletch

[Still me..]

I think Seymour Duncan beat him to the punch twenty odd years back
with the Convertible. Now THAT was revolutionary in the amplifier
world at the time and way before amp modeling came along.

Nope, the 1st was the Delta Concept One

http://www.jtashjian.com/ampporn/delta.html

I own one, and have about the only copy of the schematic that survived.

The Duncan was another animal all together, with modules that melted
when the head/combo got too hot. Great sounding till that moment.

This is just a refinement of that concept, and so not truly original
at all. Mackie needs to do his homework and stop with the stupidity.

Well, I don't know about that, but homework, yes..

...learn, or be sold to, as I always say....



JJTj

[D C]

Still me.. wrote:

EAW moved many years ago from Framingham Ma (when I worked for them)
to Whitinsville (sp?) MA, where they seem to be there still, but TTBOMK,
all construction is done elsewhere. Kenton F is one unsung hero in
the PA biz, and Loud, corp. was wise to tap his brain and knowledge.

In the 70's n 80's, EAW changed the world with some awesome, 'portable'
cabinets that just plain kicked ass. Loaded with H/duty RCF speakers,
(whom, I am told, make the Jensen line..I may be wrong), in horn loaded
super heavy wood (made in the same building) cabs, they sold them by the
truckloads. HUGE bass bins, GIANT 1-12 HORN cabs, ..ya had to be there.

Later..much later, I obtained a few of them. Stripped them of speakers,
and sold the cabs to a guy in Maine, who used them to play music to the
animals on his farm. A Potato truck came by and picked them up (no ****).

I left EAW when (what was then left of) Vox asked me to work with U2, but
they taught me how to re-cone speakers, and working under KF was awesome.


JJTj

I think we might have some mutual friends.

[boardjunkie]

On Oct 31, 12:37 pm, Still me.. up.urs.con wrote:
Nope, the 1st was the Delta Concept One

http://www.jtashjian.com/ampporn/delta.html

I own one, and have about the only copy of the schematic that survived.

Jeebus...whatta monster. Judging from the EQ freqs I assume it ws
marketed as a bass amp?

[Jim]

Gary Hendershot wrote:
Hype or what?

Well, I haven't played it yet, but it smells like hype.

It's not a "tube amp" in my book. It's a hybrid (at best) and includes
digital processing. It uses a MOSFET power amp with switching power
supply. Whether they've done it better than everybody else that has
tried to make sand sound like glass remains to be heard.

If there is some innovative switching that uses pure tube analog
circuits in the front end, I'd be MUCH more interested if it was mated
to a tube power amp. Heck, do the same thing in the power amp. Toss in
something like the SE and/or P/P THD power amps that will take many
types of tubes.

....and they could've left the digital stuff out. Heck, it's got an
effects loop, right? Digital effects are bound to improve. If this amp
is the best thing since sliced bread, and "a keeper," the buyer is going
to be saddled to 2007 digital technology for the life of the amp.
Something I think of, when my amps date back to the early 50's. Will
players in 30 to 50 years enjoy this amp as much as I like mine? Will
it be in the same degree of demand? (That is, if it still works in 30
to 50 years.) If Mackie thought so, why did they lock in today's
digital effects?

My questions:

Are the two tubes shown the only tubes in the amp?
Are they ran at real tube voltages?
Most important, how does it play, feel and sound to my fingers and ears?




"...the result is the world's first Mode Switching guitar amplifier."

"...Four years after this seemingly simple revelation, the Mackie
Hotwire VT12 emerges as the only tube amplifier capable of honestly
being associated with the words great tone, flexibility and
portability."

The above is the type of hype that gives me a negative impression from
the start! How about "Play it, and see if you don't agree that it's
the..." Or even "We think..."

We can expect some early glowing reviews from buyers. In the end, we
can only hope that it represents an improvement in SS options. But that
"only tube (sic) amplifier capable of..." is pure, unadulterated B.S.

As for me, I'm perfectly happy owning REAL tube amps! C'mon, $1500 for
a hybrid amp???




http://www.mackie.com/products/hotwire/index.html














C:\Gary_H@
http://garyhendershot.com/
(junk mail)

[Still me..]

Nope, the 1st was the Delta Concept One

http://www.jtashjian.com/ampporn/delta.html

I own one, and have about the only copy of the schematic that survived.

Jeebus...whatta monster. Judging from the EQ freqs I assume it ws
marketed as a bass amp?

Nope, was an all purpose amp, 1 4-10 cab, and 1 2-12 cab.

NO power trans, output tubes are weird '33' types, I believe.

8-track player for an echo unit (mine says 'FoMoCo' on it)

Coils and caps made the switching, only SS is the echo unit.

Built (back then) by the folks who then owned 'Schecter'.

...a combo proto was made, but never sold.

Amp was built to run Peavey out of business, and as you can
see, it didn't work. HP owns one, for ****s n grins.

Doobie Bros loved them. Take that for what it's worth.

Now n then ya see one on ebait, for stupid $$$. Sells every time.

When cranked, it shakes walls, and DOES (with the right buttons pushed)
sort of like a Marshall, or whatever the label said, but it was the 1st
'modeling' amp ever made. Gibson/Marshall/Fender sued, but by then, they
stopped making them. Schematic is huge, and not easy to copy.

JJTj

[Fletch]

On Oct 31, 7:28 am, Mike Rivers wrote:
On Oct 31, 9:22 am, (Scott Dorsey) wrote:

I find it very confusing to note that everybody is building devices right
and left that are designed to emulate the sound Fender was getting more
than fifty years ago. Since the basic problem of how to make something
sound like that was solved way back when, anything else attempting to
emulate that _has_ to be hype.

The problem for manufacturers is to make something that sounds like an
old Fender but costs like a new Behringer. A few people can get all
the sound they need out of a Champ but others want a Twin, they want
it to weigh less than 20 pounds, cost less than $200, never need
repair, and fit in the back seat of their Prius.


No kidding!

I'm still hauling around the big rigs when the gig allows. Otherwise,
I'm using rack Pods for bass and guitars for smaller venues.

I'm still a bit of the "if you want to real deal, use the Real Deal".
However, that said, I am able to wrestle a good sound out of the Pods,
enough to fool all but those who really know what to listen for...
even then, I manage to fool people who think they know.

--Fletch

[Scott Fraser]

I don't know where Crate gear is built, but just about all of Mackie's gear is built in China, and I would expect that the new amplifier will be, as well.

The Crate amp I had for one day was made in China. I took it back &
traded it for another which I sent back the same day. None of the
models on the floor of the Guitar Center could be made to work at all,
much less noiselessly.

They've been working with Chinese manufacturing for more than half
a dozen years now, and they almost have it right.

Not in the case of this particular model.

Scott Fraser

[Mike Rivers]

On Oct 31, 7:45 pm, Scott Fraser wrote:

They've been working with Chinese manufacturing for more than half
a dozen years now, and they almost have it right.

Not in the case of this particular model.

I meant Mackie (not Crate or The Chinese) in this case. It's kind of
funny quality though. The construction and components all look very
good, but they seem to still manage to build a noticeable quantity of
lemons and don't weed them out during factory testing. It may still be
a small percentage of lemons, but they build so much stuff that the
actual number of duds is isn't trivial.

I don't have any inside information on actual failure or SOA (sick on
arrival) statistics, but even if everyone who gets a dud posts about
it on Mackie's forum (and I would guess that represents maybe 5% of
the actual number of duds), that's more than a handful of duds. A
company like Manley sells in a year what Mackie sells in a week, but
Eveanna would have heads rolling if there were half a dozen returns in
a month.

[Gary Hendershot]

a écrit dans l'article:

"...Four years after this seemingly simple revelation, the Mackie
Hotwire VT12 emerges as the only tube amplifier capable of honestly
being associated with the words great tone, flexibility and
portability."

http://www.mackie.com/products/hotwire/index.html

------------------------------------------------------------------------

The above is the type of hype that gives me a negative impression from
the start! How about "Play it, and see if you don't agree that it's
the..." Or even "We think..."

================================================== ======================

Indeed. The HYPE light began flashing wildly in my mind
when I read the above part.

The main reason that I even bothered posting this info was
to find out if someone out there in UseNet land had possibly
had the chance to see, hear, or play a VT12 at one of the
various music gear shows this year, or hear one at one of
Greg Mackie's band performances.





C:\Gary_H@
http://garyhendershot.com/
(junk mail)

[Gary Hendershot]

up.urs.con a écrit dans l'article:




Mackie = Loud Corp. = Crate..?

Are they not now the same company?

================================================== ==================


I believe LoudTech (Mackie) bought the entirety of Saint Louis Music
a couple of years back. That would also mean AMPEG!

Earth Amps was bought Crate several years ago. Crate was bought
by Saint Louis Music many years later. Then Mackie turns into
LoudTech and buys Saint Louis Music. Fish gets eaten by a bigger
fish, then big fish gets eaten by an even bigger fish, etc.





C:\Gary_H@
http://garyhendershot.com/
(junk mail)

[D C]

Gary Hendershot wrote:

I believe LoudTech (Mackie) bought the entirety of Saint Louis Music
a couple of years back. That would also mean AMPEG!

Earth Amps was bought Crate several years ago. Crate was bought
by Saint Louis Music many years later. Then Mackie turns into
LoudTech and buys Saint Louis Music. Fish gets eaten by a bigger
fish, then big fish gets eaten by an even bigger fish, etc.


The EAW transaction also had a great deal to do with Mackie's speaker lines.