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#1
Posted to rec.audio.tubes,rec.audio.tech,rec.audio.pro,uk.rec.audio,rec.audio.opinion
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What is an "engineer" (was Why are "engineers" so poorly educated?)
=On Oct 26, 6:58 am, John Byrns wrote:
In article .com, Andre Jute wrote: You really have to wonder. Here we have three self-proclaimed engineers claiming that Class A is an amplification Class in which "the output device(s)never cease conducting under any signal condition." The three "engineers" in question are Graham "Poopie" Stevenson, Don "Bluster" Pearce and Arny "I spoke in error" Krueger. Apparently they are perfectly unable to understand, after they have been told so a handful of times already, that "any signal condition" includes overdrive which turns even the correct part of the definition into absurd nonsense. This raises the question of what is an engineer? The following are a few of the many definitions I have heard. 1. The person responsible for the operation and maintenance of a buildings infrastructure. 2. The person who drives a Train. 3. A person who has received an "engineering" degree from a University. 4. A person licensed to practice "engineering", similar to the way Doctors and Lawyers are licensed. Regards, John Byrns -- Surf my web pages at, http://fmamradios.com/ Hell, the guy who carries away my trash is a "garbage disposal engineer", presumably because he works on a big dumpster -- see Serge Auckland's funny-sad post. If engineers are supposed to exhibit ingenuity, as Serge so plausibly says, then I would pick several present and past RAT contributors known not to have engineering degrees as fitting to be called engineers long, long before I would pick Arny Krueger or Don Pearce, who strike me as exceedingly dull fellows, paragons of pedanticism without a spark of invention, and I would *never* pick Graham Poopie Stevenson if someone (himself!) didn't tell me that Poopie claims to be an engineer. Of course there are some members of these conferences with engineering degrees that one would instantly pick; I apologize to them for the offence of including binmen in their noble calling. Andre Jute Impedance is futile, you will be simulated into the triode of the Borg. -- Robert Casey |
#2
Posted to rec.audio.tubes,rec.audio.tech,rec.audio.pro,uk.rec.audio,rec.audio.opinion
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What is an "engineer" (was Why are "engineers" so poorly educated?)
This raises the question of what is an engineer? The
following are a few of the many definitions I have heard. 1. The person responsible for the operation and maintenance of a buildings infrastructure. 2. The person who drives a Train. 3. A person who has received an "engineering" degree from a University. 4. A person licensed to practice "engineering", similar to the way Doctors and Lawyers are licensed. Regards, John Byrns To advertise engineering services in any of the 50 united states takes #4 above. Registration with the professional engineering board of the state you offer service in. It is a crime to offer services or practice electrical engineering without a the license. I am a registered professional electrical engineer in California. peace dawg |
#3
Posted to rec.audio.pro
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What is an "engineer" (was Why are "engineers" so poorly educated?)
What I see most audio/recording "engineers" doing is far from what I
consider professional engineering. Many audio/recording "engineers" are very intelligent people, sometimes more intelligent than those with engineering degrees/licences. However the skill sets they posses are far different, as is the type of work they do. Not many people I went to school with found engineering easy, and a lot of them were pretty smart folks. I would hardly call professional engineers poorly educated. In Italy, you are unable to call yourself an engineer without having passed the official abilitation exam. In much of Europe, engineers' names are prefixed with "Dr-Ing", and that is indicative of the level of respect engineers are given. The battle over the use of "engineer" and what it means is not a new one. |
#4
Posted to rec.audio.pro
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What is an "engineer" (was Why are "engineers" so poorly educated?)
"David Grant" wrote in message ... What I see most audio/recording "engineers" doing is far from what I consider professional engineering. Many audio/recording "engineers" are very intelligent people, sometimes more intelligent than those with engineering degrees/licences. However the skill sets they posses are far different, as is the type of work they do. The licensing tends to lean toward those engineering disciplines where the public's safety is concerned. Where a public work is being done like bridges, roads, tunnels, earth moving, dams, overhead lines, pipes in the street etc or a space people will occupy you need to be registered with the engineering board to get the license. Mixing and recording pretty much never killed anyone so you do not need a permit to begin and an inspection to end your record. So in other words there is no schooling required or testing and continuing education necessary to call yourself a sound or recording engineer. But I suspect with the right nudging perhaps if you put out an advertisement calling yourself an engineer and offering engineering for hire, the state engineering licensing board could have you prosecuted in the USA. peace dawg |
#5
Posted to rec.audio.pro
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What is an "engineer" (was Why are "engineers" so poorly educated?)
The licensing tends to lean toward those engineering disciplines where the
public's safety is concerned. Where a public work is being done like bridges, roads, tunnels, earth moving, dams, overhead lines, pipes in the street etc or a space people will occupy you need to be registered with the engineering board to get the license. Mixing and recording pretty much never killed anyone so you do not need a permit to begin and an inspection to end your record. So in other words there is no schooling required or testing and continuing education necessary to call yourself a sound or recording engineer. Agreed, but this is still a problem (for some). Depending on how you define the term, "engineer" does not belong in "sound/recording engineer" as most people use it. "Technician" is a more appropriate term, IMHO. I have a day job as a practicing engineer, and I also do sound/recording; the two are fundementally different disciplines. The term "engineer" is used more and more losely everyday, and it is losing its original meaning. Consider if you were a doctor who had spent a good portion of your life in school, and then an industry came along and started calling themselves Recording Doctors, or Sound Doctors. Or you could, in a few weeks, study for and obtain a MCSD (Microsoft Certified Systems Doctor) certificate. It's all semantics of course.... |
#6
Posted to rec.audio.pro
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What is an "engineer" (was Why are "engineers" so poorly educated?)
David Grant wrote:
The term "engineer" is used more and more losely everyday, and it is losing its original meaning. Consider if you were a doctor who had spent a good portion of your life in school, and then an industry came along and started calling themselves Recording Doctors, or Sound Doctors. Or you could, in a few weeks, study for and obtain a MCSD (Microsoft Certified Systems Doctor) certificate. This in short is why in Europe, they have Tonmeister programs. --scott -- "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis." |
#7
Posted to rec.audio.tubes,rec.audio.tech,rec.audio.pro,uk.rec.audio,rec.audio.opinion
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What is an "engineer" (was Why are "engineers" so poorly educated?)
On Oct 26, 3:48?pm, "Deputy Dumbya Dawg"
wrote: This raises the question of what is an engineer? The following are a few of the many definitions I have heard. 1. The person responsible for the operation and maintenance of a buildings infrastructure. 2. The person who drives a Train. 3. A person who has received an "engineering" degree from a University. 4. A person licensed to practice "engineering", similar to the way Doctors and Lawyers are licensed. Regards, John Byrns To advertise engineering services in any of the 50 united states takes #4 above. Registration with the professional engineering board of the state you offer service in. It is a crime to offer services or practice electrical engineering without a the license. I am a registered professional electrical engineer in California. peace dawg- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - |
#8
Posted to rec.audio.tubes,rec.audio.tech,rec.audio.pro,uk.rec.audio,rec.audio.opinion
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What is an "engineer" (was Why are "engineers" so poorly educated?)
"Andy Evans" wrote in message ups.com... On Oct 26, 3:48?pm, "Deputy Dumbya Dawg" wrote: This raises the question of what is an engineer? The following are a few of the many definitions I have heard. 1. The person responsible for the operation and maintenance of a buildings infrastructure. 2. The person who drives a Train. 3. A person who has received an "engineering" degree from a University. 4. A person licensed to practice "engineering", similar to the way Doctors and Lawyers are licensed. To advertise engineering services in any of the 50 united states takes #4 above. Registration with the professional engineering board of the state you offer service in. It is a crime to offer services or practice electrical engineering without a the license. Does not apply to all types of qualified engineers though. Mostly just electrical and mechanical IME. MrT. |
#9
Posted to rec.audio.tubes,rec.audio.tech,rec.audio.pro,uk.rec.audio,rec.audio.opinion
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What is an "engineer" (was Why are "engineers" so poorly educated?)
In article ,
"Mr.T" MrT@home wrote: "Andy Evans" wrote in message ups.com... On Oct 26, 3:48?pm, "Deputy Dumbya Dawg" wrote: This raises the question of what is an engineer? The following are a few of the many definitions I have heard. 1. The person responsible for the operation and maintenance of a buildings infrastructure. 2. The person who drives a Train. 3. A person who has received an "engineering" degree from a University. 4. A person licensed to practice "engineering", similar to the way Doctors and Lawyers are licensed. To advertise engineering services in any of the 50 united states takes #4 above. Registration with the professional engineering board of the state you offer service in. It is a crime to offer services or practice electrical engineering without a the license. Does not apply to all types of qualified engineers though. Mostly just electrical and mechanical IME. I would think Civil engineers too, although we obviously don't have many of those in this group. Regards, John Byrns -- Surf my web pages at, http://fmamradios.com/ |
#10
Posted to rec.audio.tubes,rec.audio.tech,rec.audio.pro,uk.rec.audio,rec.audio.opinion
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What is an "engineer" (was Why are "engineers" so poorly educated?)
On 28 Oct, 22:07, John Byrns wrote:
In article , "Mr.T" MrT@home wrote: "Andy Evans" wrote in message oups.com... On Oct 26, 3:48?pm, "Deputy Dumbya Dawg" wrote: This raises the question of what is an engineer? The following are a few of the many definitions I have heard. 1. The person responsible for the operation and maintenance of a buildings infrastructure. 2. The person who drives a Train. 3. A person who has received an "engineering" degree from a University. 4. A person licensed to practice "engineering", similar to the way Doctors and Lawyers are licensed. To advertise engineering services in any of the 50 united states takes #4 above. Registration with the professional engineering board of the state you offer service in. It is a crime to offer services or practice electrical engineering without a the license. Does not apply to all types of qualified engineers though. Mostly just electrical and mechanical IME. I would think Civil engineers too, although we obviously don't have many of those in this group. i am not an engineer, but i retired from a civil engineering office. the requirement is more for signing, sealing and certifying plans. btw, my job was real estate acquisitions. |
#11
Posted to rec.audio.tubes,rec.audio.tech,rec.audio.pro,uk.rec.audio,rec.audio.opinion
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What is an "engineer" (was Why are "engineers" so poorly educated?)
On Oct 28, 10:38 pm, Clyde Slick wrote:
i am not an engineer, but i retired from a civil engineering office. the requirement is more for signing, sealing and certifying plans. btw, my job was real estate acquisitions. One may purchase an engineer for a fairly reasonable hourly rate. You may not like what they do for you as most (good) engineers tend to be moderately conservative and want their designs to be moderately enduring, so most (again, good) engineers tend not to like poor, fast, quick or dirty solutions. I often explain to the people I work with that whereas I am emphatically not an engineer, I do recognized when there is the need for one. Similarly, when other design professionals are required such as Architects. At this time, our company has two engineers best described as 'on call', both have been around since more-or-less the beginning of time - one of them was my structures professor in grad-school, the other mentored him in his early years of practice. It is quite an experience to listen to these two guys when they get started. And both of them will be down in a hole or up a ladder faster than most people a third of their ages. Peter Wieck Wyncote, PA |
#12
Posted to rec.audio.tubes,rec.audio.tech,rec.audio.pro,uk.rec.audio,rec.audio.opinion
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What is an "engineer" (was Why are "engineers" so poorly educated?)
On 29 Oct, 07:49, Peter Wieck wrote:
At this time, our company has two engineers best described as 'on call', both have been around since more-or-less the beginning of time .. And both of them will be down in a hole faster than most people a third of their ages. No doubt!!!! |
#13
Posted to rec.audio.tubes,rec.audio.tech,rec.audio.pro,uk.rec.audio,rec.audio.opinion
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What is an "engineer" (was Why are "engineers" so poorly educated?)
One may purchase an engineer for a fairly reasonable hourly rate. You may not like what they do for you as most (good) engineers tend to be moderately conservative and want their designs to be moderately enduring, so most (again, good) engineers tend not to like poor, fast, quick or dirty solutions. In my experience, engineers have a completely different mentality / way of approaching design. One of the byproducts of this mentality is the conservative nature that you mention, but that is not as big a difference as the thought process an engineer takes to arrive at his design. It's difficult to explain however. I can refer to "an engineering mind", and any of my engineer friends know exactly what I mean, whereas those who are not engineers tend to scratch their heads. |
#14
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What is an "engineer" (was Why are "engineers" so poorly educated?)
I've never met a poorly educated engineer. They're some of the best educated
people I run across. There are tons of audio "engineers" who have no education, but they are not degreed professionals, so maybe you're referring to a problem of semantics. To me, a Sound Engineer is completely different from an Audio Engineer or an Electrical or Mechanical Engineer for example. One requires rigorous education, big bucks for tuition and hard work, and the other title does not. I have met a few Sound Engineers however, who are not only very talented with live and recorded sound, but are just as intelligent as any degreed engineer. Seems like a no-brainer to me. Titles don't mean anything, it's what you have done and what you can do. Skler |
#15
Posted to rec.audio.pro,rec.audio.tech,rec.arts.movies.production.sound,aus.sport.cricket
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What is an "engineer" (was Why are "engineers" so poorly educated?)
On Oct 30, 3:40 am, "Sylvan Morein, DDS" wrote:
wrote in message To me, a Sound Engineer is completely different from an Audio Engineer or an Electrical or Mechanical Engineer for example. One requires rigorous education, big bucks for tuition and hard work, and the other title does not. I have met a few Sound Engineers however, who are not only very talented with live and recorded sound, but are just as intelligent as any degreed engineer. You've identified another symptom of son Robert Morein's deep psychosis. When he's off his meds, one of his psychotic symptoms is the emergence of an OCD-type disorder. While stepping up his medication occasionally allows him to leave the house (stressed), things like a fingerprint on a microphone drive him absolutely nuts. My wife Jane Morein and I were always hoping that as Robert got older the major portion of his mental illness would moderate itself, as it often does as part of the aging process. However now in his mid-50s, his illness does not seem to be in any way less persistent than when he was in his 20s. It is to our profound shame that we never committed Robert Morein to longterm mental health care when we had the opportunity. It is our fervent hope that, with the help of new and more potent anti-psychotic medications, we can keep him stable enough so that he does no further harm to himself or compete strangers. Dr. Sylvan Morein, DDS where either or both of you part of the CIA's experiments with hallucinogens?? |
#16
Posted to rec.audio.pro,rec.audio.tech,rec.arts.movies.production.sound,aus.sport.cricket
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What is an "engineer" (was Why are "engineers" so poorly educated?)
please, avoid using this forum for that kind of posts, thank you.
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