[[email protected]]

i no longer need a bunch of I/O...i'm hoping to pare down my gear to a
few high-quality channels. so i'd like to replace my MOTU 828mkII with
a 2 or 4 channel interface with better quality D/A and A/D. i don't
need fancy features, or internal pres, i just want great sounding
conversion. i don't know anything about mid (and entry level high) end
interfaces, so i thought i'd ask for some suggestions. your direction
is appreciated. (right now i'm using a maxed out dual processor
PowerMac G4 running Digital Performer 4.6).

[Paul Stamler]

wrote in message
oups.com...
i no longer need a bunch of I/O...i'm hoping to pare down my gear to a
few high-quality channels. so i'd like to replace my MOTU 828mkII with
a 2 or 4 channel interface with better quality D/A and A/D. i don't
need fancy features, or internal pres, i just want great sounding
conversion. i don't know anything about mid (and entry level high) end
interfaces, so i thought i'd ask for some suggestions. your direction
is appreciated. (right now i'm using a maxed out dual processor
PowerMac G4 running Digital Performer 4.6).

Lynx.

Peace,
Paul

[[email protected]]

....and the Black Lion mod is a possibility if i want to improve the
sound of the MOTO. (http://www.blacklionaudio.com/
motu_firewire_mod.html)








On Oct 16, 12:26 am, "Paul Stamler" wrote:
wrote in message

oups.com...

i no longer need a bunch of I/O...i'm hoping to pare down my gear to a
few high-quality channels. so i'd like to replace my MOTU 828mkII with
a 2 or 4 channel interface with better quality D/A and A/D. i don't
need fancy features, or internal pres, i just want great sounding
conversion. i don't know anything about mid (and entry level high) end
interfaces, so i thought i'd ask for some suggestions. your direction
is appreciated. (right now i'm using a maxed out dual processor
PowerMac G4 running Digital Performer 4.6).

Lynx.

Peace,
Paul

[yoyopoc]

On Oct 16, 4:53 am, wrote:
i no longer need a bunch of I/O...i'm hoping to pare down my gear to a
few high-quality channels. so i'd like to replace my MOTU 828mkII with
a 2 or 4 channel interface with better quality D/A and A/D. i don't
need fancy features, or internal pres, i just want great sounding
conversion. i don't know anything about mid (and entry level high) end
interfaces, so i thought i'd ask for some suggestions. your direction
is appreciated. (right now i'm using a maxed out dual processor
PowerMac G4 running Digital Performer 4.6).

The Apogee converters are without doubt the best you can buy, they do
various channel configurations 2 - 16+. Buy one of their products and
you will be making the best investment in AD/DA conversion you can.
http://www.apogeedigital.com/

[Mike Rivers]

On Oct 16, 11:22 am, yoyopoc wrote:

The Apogee converters are without doubt the best you can buy, they do
various channel configurations 2 - 16+.

Not hardly the best you can buy, but pretty good, readily available,
and they have good market penetration (as evidenced by your heartfelt
testimony) which means that they offer both good performance and good
support. Buying an Apogee converter is kind of like buying a Toyota -
dependable, not outrageously expensive, and good enough for just about
anyone.

[[email protected]]

thanks for the suggestions. i think i have to do some serious research
about the Black Lion Audio mod and external clock...that would run me
about $650, and i've heard it sounds great. i've also heard it's a
total scam, and throwing money at a ****ty converter isn't going to
solve anything. i guess i have some resarch to do...






On Oct 16, 11:26 am, Mike Rivers wrote:
On Oct 16, 11:22 am, yoyopoc wrote:

The Apogee converters are without doubt the best you can buy, they do
various channel configurations 2 - 16+.

Not hardly the best you can buy, but pretty good, readily available,
and they have good market penetration (as evidenced by your heartfelt
testimony) which means that they offer both good performance and good
support. Buying an Apogee converter is kind of like buying a Toyota -
dependable, not outrageously expensive, and good enough for just about
anyone.

[Mike Rivers]

On Oct 16, 11:57 am, wrote:
thanks for the suggestions. i think i have to do some serious research
about the Black Lion Audio mod and external clock...that would run me
about $650, and i've heard it sounds great. i've also heard it's a
total scam, and throwing money at a ****ty converter isn't going to
solve anything. i guess i have some resarch to do...

Well, you can start right here. If $650 can really substantially
improve your MOTU converter, it must have been pretty poorly designed
in the first place. It may not be a total sham, but it's certainly not
a good investment unless you plan to keep that converter forever.
Where do you think you'll ever find someone willing to pay you $650
more than the going price of a used MOTU 828 because it's been
modified?

Aside from that, I didn't have a very good experience with Black Lion,
but admittedly that was a few years ago. I was curious about their
claims (and the claims of several happy customers) about a
modification that turned the Alesis 3630 into a pretty good
compressor. Since it was a fairly extensive DIY job, I offered to do
the work for someone who would buy the kit and lend me his 3630. I got
a volunteer (he had already bought the kit but hadn't installed it),
did the modification, and while it still passed signal, it no longer
offered any dynamic control. "Transparent" for sure!

After some e-mail correspondence with the Black Lion guy, he was
convinced that I had done everything right, was puzzled by why it
didn't work, and asked me to send it to him for analysis. He wrote
back that this was a variation on the 3630 that he hadn't seen before
and that he would need to make some changes to his modifications.
Weeks went by, then months, then he said he almost had it ready to
send back, then silence.

Eventually I heard back from him. His house had burned, everything was
lost, he got married, but he intended to make good on all his
outstanding projects. He said he was looking for some 3630s to buy and
modify, and that he'd send back a modified compressor as soon as he
had one. More silence.

They guy who owned the compressor tried to get in touch with him and
got some initial response, but was eventually blown off. So he still
doesn't have his compressor back, and I never got to evaluate the
modified version.

He seemed knowledgeable enough and initially meant well but I don't
know what happened. I wouldn't trust him again.

[Arny Krueger]

wrote in message
ups.com...

thanks for the suggestions. i think i have to do some serious research
about the Black Lion Audio mod and external clock...that would run me
about $650, and i've heard it sounds great.

I've heard from someone that every mod, free, cheap or expensive, sounds
great.

i've also heard it's a total scam,

That's typical for magic clocks.

and throwing money at a ****ty converter isn't going to
solve anything.

Maybe that Motu is crap, and maybe it isn't.

I guess i have some resarch to do...

I would start my research by doing some Audio Rightmark tests on the Motu,
and see how bad it really is. Here's where to download the audio Rightmark
test program for free:

http://audio.rightmark.org/download.shtml

I would then try some comparisons of critical recordings before and after
being re-recorded through the Motu using a good DBT comparison program, such
as those mentioned at www.pcabx.com . Do multi-generation testing if you
don't hear any problems after just one pass. If you still can't hear any
differences after 5 passes, then the Motu might be pretty blameless for you.

[DC]

Mike Rivers wrote:

He seemed knowledgeable enough and initially meant well but I don't
know what happened. I wouldn't trust him again.


I wouldn't think he's have another fire.

[Mike Rivers]

On Oct 16, 1:49 pm, DC wrote:

I wouldn't think he's have another fire.

But he might have another excuse. I was patient with that. The final
straw was that he pretty much blew off the whole thing. He wasn't
going to send a compressor back to me or the person who owned it,
either modified or not. And it wasn't like the owner came out of the
blue. I told Black Lion in my first e-mail what I was doing, gave him
the name of the owner, and his e-mail address. So there's no reason to
think he was being scammed . . unless he forgot.

[[email protected]]

well, for now i'll assume that i wouldn't have any issues with Black
Lion if i go that route. the Lynx cards are a cool suggestion because
they're really affordable. the LynxOne does not work with OSX, right?
so i'm looking at the Lynx L22, which conveniently is pretty much the
same price as the modded 828mkII with the external MicroClock. so i
guess i'm interested in a direct comparison between the Lynx L22 and
the modded MOTU with the external clock (ignoring features, just
talking sound quality). that's sort of a super-specialized
question...probably tough to find someone out there who has ran tests
in that situation...but hey, you never know.







On Oct 16, 3:26 pm, Mike Rivers wrote:
On Oct 16, 1:49 pm, DC wrote:

I wouldn't think he's have another fire.

But he might have another excuse. I was patient with that. The final
straw was that he pretty much blew off the whole thing. He wasn't
going to send a compressor back to me or the person who owned it,
either modified or not. And it wasn't like the owner came out of the
blue. I told Black Lion in my first e-mail what I was doing, gave him
the name of the owner, and his e-mail address. So there's no reason to
think he was being scammed . . unless he forgot.

[Mike Rivers]

On Oct 16, 9:59 pm, wrote:

i'm looking at the Lynx L22, which conveniently is pretty much the
same price as the modded 828mkII with the external MicroClock. so i
guess i'm interested in a direct comparison between the Lynx L22 and
the modded MOTU with the external clock (ignoring features, just
talking sound quality).

I doubt that you'll ever find anyone who has both and can give you a
direct comparison. The good thing about Lynx is that it's very well
supported and, not being a hybrid, will have a reasonable stable value
should you eventually want to sell it. The other thing about Lynx is
that nobody that I know of has ever said anything questionable about
the sound quality. At some level, you just have to accept that what
you buy is going to be as good as you need, and that's a good
assessment of the Lynx.

Of course the L22 is only a 2-channel card out of the box, but it can
be expanded to 8 channels with an add-on L-Slot board, so you don't
have to completely replace it if you need more channels.

The Black Lion modification might be a very good thing,a nd Black Lion
might be a reformed and reliable business. But "might" is the
operative word here. Lynx "is," and will be there for you if you need
their help. And besides, Bob Bauman is a judge of good coffee.

[[email protected]]

mike, you are correct. it is an "is" versus a "might." good point. the
only reason i would consider the Black Lion is i already have the
MOTU, and i guess it's tempting to keep those extra channels even if i
don't need them right now (and my current home studio is built around
the MOTU, so it would be nice to not disrupt anything and improve the
sound). i think i just have to swim through the thousands of posts
about external clocks and Black Lion mods. thanks for all your input.







On Oct 17, 8:30 am, Mike Rivers wrote:
On Oct 16, 9:59 pm, wrote:

i'm looking at the Lynx L22, which conveniently is pretty much the
same price as the modded 828mkII with the external MicroClock. so i
guess i'm interested in a direct comparison between the Lynx L22 and
the modded MOTU with the external clock (ignoring features, just
talking sound quality).

I doubt that you'll ever find anyone who has both and can give you a
direct comparison. The good thing about Lynx is that it's very well
supported and, not being a hybrid, will have a reasonable stable value
should you eventually want to sell it. The other thing about Lynx is
that nobody that I know of has ever said anything questionable about
the sound quality. At some level, you just have to accept that what
you buy is going to be as good as you need, and that's a good
assessment of the Lynx.

Of course the L22 is only a 2-channel card out of the box, but it can
be expanded to 8 channels with an add-on L-Slot board, so you don't
have to completely replace it if you need more channels.

The Black Lion modification might be a very good thing,a nd Black Lion
might be a reformed and reliable business. But "might" is the
operative word here. Lynx "is," and will be there for you if you need
their help. And besides, Bob Bauman is a judge of good coffee.

[nag champa[_2_]]

I had the Black Lion mod done on my 828MkII about a year ago. As I
remember, at the time it cost in the mid 300's. Matt at Black Lion was
very helpful. He made an appointment for me to ship it so I wouldn't
be without it for an extended period, and total turnaround was only a
few days. Not having an unmodded version to A/B, I can only say the
following:

The mic preamps DEFINITELY sound a lot better. Before, I NEVER used
them, having access to a lot of nice outboard. Now, I use them quite
often for a quick track, and have found them to be my choice in a few
different situations, over my Calrec PQ15s, Langevin DVC, and API
3124. Not often, but enough for me to feel like I got a good deal.
As far as the clock goes, I've had no problems, but without a
comparison piece, I wouldn't want to say anything definitive. The only
down side is that after the mod, you are required to change sample
rates manually using a front channel switch. As someone who does a
lot of TV music, this means going back and forth from 44.1 to 48 quite
a bit, and sometimes being surprised when I forget the throw the
switch.

[[email protected]]

wow, the post-mod pres can keep up with those outboard pres? that's a
plus for the Black Lion route.

side note: i was also planning on purchasing a langevin DVC, hey nag,
what are your thoughts on that channel strip? (thanks for your input,
it's appreciated!)





On Oct 17, 11:49 am, nag champa wrote:
I had the Black Lion mod done on my 828MkII about a year ago. As I
remember, at the time it cost in the mid 300's. Matt at Black Lion was
very helpful. He made an appointment for me to ship it so I wouldn't
be without it for an extended period, and total turnaround was only a
few days. Not having an unmodded version to A/B, I can only say the
following:

The mic preamps DEFINITELY sound a lot better. Before, I NEVER used
them, having access to a lot of nice outboard. Now, I use them quite
often for a quick track, and have found them to be my choice in a few
different situations, over my Calrec PQ15s, Langevin DVC, and API
3124. Not often, but enough for me to feel like I got a good deal.
As far as the clock goes, I've had no problems, but without a
comparison piece, I wouldn't want to say anything definitive. The only
down side is that after the mod, you are required to change sample
rates manually using a front channel switch. As someone who does a
lot of TV music, this means going back and forth from 44.1 to 48 quite
a bit, and sometimes being surprised when I forget the throw the
switch.