Greetings, group.

I have a chance to get one of these and seek opinions on it's usefulness and
how much you think they are worth on the used market?

This one is in great shape. Any info would be appreciated.

Thanks.

(Scott Dorsey) wrote in message ...
JamesBRey wrote:

I have a chance to get one of these and seek opinions on it's usefulness and
how much you think they are worth on the used market?

It sounds like a spring reverb.

This one is in great shape. Any info would be appreciated.

You can get an Orban 111B, which is probably the most versatile spring
around, for around $150. So I'd expect it would be worth less than that.
--scott

I've been watching both Master Room's various models of reverbs and
Orban 11B's on eBay for the past two years. That model of Master Room
would fetch about $150 on ebay and the 111B's have been averaging
about $20 for a while now.-Paul

david wrote:

I owned one of these back in the early 80's when digital reverbs were
unbelieveably expensive and I would tell you to use your money on a
used yamaha spx-90 instead. This box is a one trick pony, and the trick
it does ain't a very good one.

You absolutely _need_ it for that Ventures sound. Put the spring reverb
on your drum overheads, then follow it with a compressor that has very
short attack and long release time. Lots of fun! Don't forget the surf
guitar too!

It's a one-trick pony, and the one trick it does is very bizarrely distorted
and doesn't sound anything even remotely like a real room reverb, but it's
still a lot of fun.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

Justin Ulysses Morse wrote in message
Did you forget a digit?
Yes, and a very important one! D'oh! Yeah, average of about $200-$225
on ebay is correct. Thanks for pointing that out. It was late and I
was tired.

david wrote:
In article , JamesBRey
wrote:

Greetings, group.

I have a chance to get one of these and seek opinions on it's usefulness and
how much you think they are worth on the used market?
This one is in great shape. Any info would be appreciated.
Thanks.



I owned one of these back in the early 80's when digital reverbs were
unbelieveably expensive and I would tell you to use your money on a
used yamaha spx-90 instead. This box is a one trick pony, and the trick
it does ain't a very good one.

David Correia
Celebration Sound
Warren, Rhode Island


www.CelebrationSound.com


Perceptions of how things sound are often influenced by the "now" sounds
of a particular era. When the new digital reverbs became commonplace in
the early eighties it was a new and exciting sound. Springs, and plates
for that matter, suddenly sounded very "dated". If you listen to the
hits of that era, the overuse of digital reverb sounds ridiculous now.
Of course all that coke warped perspective somewhat as well.

Spring reverbs were cheap and didn't sound that great on most things
relative to an EMT plate, a nicely designed chamber or an AMS, but every
once in a while you can find just the right application for one.

Dig out your RAP Three Times CD and listen to disk one, track 15. The
only reverb aside from some delay is a MasterRoom spring reverb. It's a
Super C with the long tube "tanks" which does sound better that the
XL305, but it was the right choice for that particular track. It was
used on the sax and the drum overhead. You can hear it pretty well on
the sax solo and at end of the track after the last hit.

The super C is one of the better springs, but I did have an XL305 for a
while and that was pretty useful at times in small doses. If it's cheap,
what the heck. Buy it.
--
--
John Noll
Retromedia Sound Studios
Red Bank, NJ 07701

Phone: 732-842-3853 Fax: 732-842-5631

http://www.retromedia.net

david wrote in message ...
In article , Scott Dorsey
wrote:

david wrote:

I owned one of these back in the early 80's when digital reverbs were
unbelieveably expensive and I would tell you to use your money on a
used yamaha spx-90 instead. This box is a one trick pony, and the trick
it does ain't a very good one.

You absolutely _need_ it for that Ventures sound. Put the spring reverb
on your drum overheads, then follow it with a compressor that has very
short attack and long release time. Lots of fun! Don't forget the surf
guitar too!

It's a one-trick pony, and the one trick it does is very bizarrely distorted
and doesn't sound anything even remotely like a real room reverb, but it's
still a lot of fun.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."





It wasn't fun for me when what I going for was either a plate or a
224x, and the only knobs I got to turn was that twangy thang. ****er
made you work for anything you did get.

And she didn't give much.




David Correia
Celebration Sound
Warren, Rhode Island


www.CelebrationSound.com

Tell me about it....I was doing 80's metal back then and in a pathetic
attempt at getting the "big 80's huge snare drum sound" I bought an
ElectroVoice
EVT-4500 spring reverb. Needless to say between the "boing Factor" and
the general sound of the thing I had to put it so low in the mix that
you almost couldn't hear it.

I never did get it to sound like those Ratt records...

At the time, my "outboard" consisted of the EV Spring verb, an
SDE-1000, and a Symetrix 501 compressor.

Still got the compressor, and use it all the time, can't say that for
the other stuff.

I saw one of the EV's on Ebay a while back, went for $52 (I think I
paid $200 for it in 1983), I almost bought it just for old time's
sake!

Analogeezer

In article ,
Analogeezer wrote:

Tell me about it....I was doing 80's metal back then and in a pathetic
attempt at getting the "big 80's huge snare drum sound" I bought an
ElectroVoice
EVT-4500 spring reverb.
CLIP
I saw one of the EV's on Ebay a while back, went for $52 (I think I
paid $200 for it in 1983), I almost bought it just for old time's
sake!

Wasn't the EV a repackaging of the Tapco unit? Or was that a low-end
AKG that repackaged the Tapco? One or the other I believe.

The 305 was a lot better than the average twang tank, however.

--
John Etnier
Studio Dual
http://www.studiodual.com

The XL-305 was the best of the rack units

I'm trying to remember the rack units.

Master Room.
AKG BX5
Quad Eight had a nifty mono spring reverb
Orban
Furman

Any more?



---------------------------------------
"I know enough to know I don't know enough"

I'm trying to remember the rack units.
Fostex had one that was pretty cool as I recall.
Cheers,
Ed

I'm trying to remember the rack units.

Master Room.
AKG BX5
Quad Eight had a nifty mono spring reverb
Orban
Furman

Any more?


Clover. (I'd be surprised if more than a handful of these were produced. I had
the only one I've ever seen.)




Scott Fraser

I've got a rack mount biamp e-140? that's pretty cool. Has 4 EQ knobs
and a gain control. It's a bit noisey but it sounds pretty cool. Too
bad you can't control the delay time on these things.

(EggHd) wrote in message ...
The XL-305 was the best of the rack units

I'm trying to remember the rack units.

Master Room.
AKG BX5
Quad Eight had a nifty mono spring reverb
Orban
Furman

Any more?



---------------------------------------
"I know enough to know I don't know enough"

Your Add Here! wrote:
(EggHd) wrote in message ...
The XL-305 was the best of the rack units

I'm trying to remember the rack units.

Master Room.
AKG BX5
Quad Eight had a nifty mono spring reverb
Orban
Furman

I've got a rack mount biamp e-140? that's pretty cool. Has 4 EQ knobs
and a gain control. It's a bit noisey but it sounds pretty cool. Too
bad you can't control the delay time on these things.

TC Electronics in Georgia also made the "Microplate reverb" which was a
mechanical delay combined with a spring system with a couple tricks to make
it a lot less boingy. It's less useful today because it doesn't really
have that spring sound, but by the same token it also doesn't really sound
much like a real plate either.

I also sold a 4-tank machine under the Kludge label. I think I sold about
twenty of the things. They used two Accutronics tanks per channel, wired
out of phase so that much of the distortion cancelled out, and a limiting
circuit that I more or less stole from Bob Orban. Again, not very useful
since it was intended to reduce the spring nastiness, and today the reason
you'd want a spring reverb unit is because of that nastiness.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

Your Add Here! wrote:
I've got a rack mount biamp e-140? that's pretty cool. Has 4 EQ knobs
and a gain control. It's a bit noisey but it sounds pretty cool. Too
bad you can't control the delay time on these things.




Delay or decay time?

If you want pre-delay just throw a digital delay line in front of it. To
vary the decay run the outputs into a pair of gates and adjust the
release time and attenuation to taste. Rack delays and gates are very
cheap these days on eBay.

--
--
John Noll
Retromedia Sound Studios
Red Bank, NJ 07701

Phone: 732-842-3853 Fax: 732-842-5631

http://www.retromedia.net

I had that long grey tube spring reverb that wasn't rack mounted. I believe
Rivers
had one as well.


---------------------------------------
"I know enough to know I don't know enough"

(Your Add Here!) wrote in message . com...
I've got a rack mount biamp e-140? that's pretty cool.

Is it the _SR_140? There's a Biamp SR-240 that was a two space stereo
unit. It has the four band EQ and and a limiter switch too. -Paul

(EggHd) wrote in message ...
Any more?

I think _INTERSOUND_ made a couple of different models that were
rackmountable. One was called a PRV-1 and I don't remember the other
model I once saw on ebay. I spend way too much time on ebay.-Paul

(Scott Dorsey) wrote in message ...

TC Electronics in Georgia also made the "Microplate reverb" which was a
mechanical delay combined with a spring system with a couple tricks to make
it a lot less boingy. It's less useful today because it doesn't really
have that spring sound, but by the same token it also doesn't really sound
much like a real plate either.

Does this mean that you're disappointed with the unit?

ThePaulThomas wrote:
(Scott Dorsey) wrote in message ...

TC Electronics in Georgia also made the "Microplate reverb" which was a
mechanical delay combined with a spring system with a couple tricks to make
it a lot less boingy. It's less useful today because it doesn't really
have that spring sound, but by the same token it also doesn't really sound
much like a real plate either.

Does this mean that you're disappointed with the unit?

No, it's a neat thing (and I thank you for pointing out the guy selling one),
but it's one of those things whose time has come and gone. It was designed
to do something that digital boxes now do more effectively.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

In article writes:

I had that long grey tube spring reverb that wasn't rack mounted. I believe
Rivers
had one as well.

That's the Great British Spring, a PVC tube with four Accutronics
spring units in it, two per channel. I even know where it is, but I
haven't heard it in years.


--
I'm really Mike Rivers - )

Why THE Fairchild Reverbatron of course!


DUH! You know I never have heard one of those.



---------------------------------------
"I know enough to know I don't know enough"

That's the Great British Spring, a PVC tube with four Accutronics
spring units in it, two per channel. I even know where it is, but I
haven't heard it in years.

I have one around somewhere as well.



---------------------------------------
"I know enough to know I don't know enough"

In article , EggHd
wrote:

DUH! You know I never have heard one of those.

You didn't miss anything!

Actually you probably have heard them on records and DJ's voices. I
occasionally hung one off a mono machine for horns. Everybody had one
in the mid '60s along with the stand-up ashtrays, vibes and those red
white and blue Baldwin electric harpsichords.

--
Bob Olhsson Audio Mastery Recording Project Design and Consulting
Box 90412, Nashville TN 37209 Tracking, Mixing, Mastering, Audio for Picture
615.385.8051 FAX: 615.385.8196 Mix Evaluation and Quality Control
40 years of making people sound better than they ever imagined!

EggHd wrote:
Why THE Fairchild Reverbatron of course!


DUH! You know I never have heard one of those.

I envy you.
Imagine a typical spring reverb, except more boingy... and more distorted...
and more noisy...
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

I envy you.
Imagine a typical spring reverb, except more boingy... and more distorted...
and more noisy...

Sounds like my recordings!



---------------------------------------
"I know enough to know I don't know enough"

Scott Dorsey wrote:

It's a one-trick pony, and the one trick it does is very bizarrely distorted
and doesn't sound anything even remotely like a real room reverb, but it's
still a lot of fun.


Can you name a box that DOES sound like a real room reverb?

ulysses

EggHd wrote:

I'm trying to remember the rack units.

Master Room.
AKG BX5
Quad Eight had a nifty mono spring reverb
Orban
Furman

Any more?


I've got a Sound Workshop stereo unit and a MAze mono unit here.
Neither of them get used. The Orban is the real deal.

One time I was mixing a song with tons of Orban on the electric guitar
track, and I noticed the guitar had a lot more sustain if I cranked the
control room monitors. I was completely surprised, but delighted, when
I realized it was from an acoustic feedback loop involving the speakers
and the springs. It sounds ****ing amazing.

ulysses

Scott Dorsey wrote:

I also sold a 4-tank machine under the Kludge label. I think I sold about
twenty of the things. They used two Accutronics tanks per channel, wired
out of phase so that much of the distortion cancelled out, and a limiting
circuit that I more or less stole from Bob Orban. Again, not very useful
since it was intended to reduce the spring nastiness, and today the reason
you'd want a spring reverb unit is because of that nastiness.
--scott


I want one! I don't think you need ALL the boinginess to enjoy the
sound of a spring, any more than you need a starved plate to hear what
a tube sounds like. I have a pile of digital reverbs and I've listened
to some more expensive piles, and I have yet to find anything that
sounds as enjoyable as the Orban, outside of the boing.

I've always thought about building my own reverb and stealing Hammond's
idea of controlling decay time (and boinginess) by submerging the
springs in oil.

ulysses

Thanks for all the replies, everyone.

I think I'll like it for "vibe". Love the Springs on lead vocal, electric
guits and the occasional oddball like harmonica.

I always have the Eventide, Lexicons, Yamaha's and Sony's for the "real" stuff.

Scott Dorsey wrote:

I can name a bunch that sound remotely like a real room reverb, or at least
a whole lot better than the spring reverb.

And the Sony DPS V-77 isn't half bad. It's most of the way there in terms
of simulating a chamber. The new 777 sampling reverb is even better.
Haven't tried the Yamaha.

Don't all those actually cost more than a room?

ulysses

In article ,
Justin Ulysses Morse wrote:
Scott Dorsey wrote:

I can name a bunch that sound remotely like a real room reverb, or at least
a whole lot better than the spring reverb.

And the Sony DPS V-77 isn't half bad. It's most of the way there in terms
of simulating a chamber. The new 777 sampling reverb is even better.
Haven't tried the Yamaha.

Don't all those actually cost more than a room?

The V-77 is about a thousand dollars new, as I recall. It might be down
a bit since it's been out for a while. The 777 is a lot more money,
as is the Yamaha.

You can build a small chamber for a couple hundred bucks. I have one up
in the attic with an AR-4X in it, and it sounds good. It sure isn't the
cathedral at Chartres, though, and the 777 can almost be.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

Justin Ulysses Morse wrote:

Scott Dorsey wrote:


I can name a bunch that sound remotely like a real room reverb, or at least
a whole lot better than the spring reverb.

And the Sony DPS V-77 isn't half bad. It's most of the way there in terms
of simulating a chamber. The new 777 sampling reverb is even better.
Haven't tried the Yamaha.


Don't all those actually cost more than a room?

ulysses

I suppose it depends where you are. A room in New York probably costs a
lot more than one in North Dakota.

Rob Adelman wrote:

I suppose it depends where you are. A room in New York probably costs a
lot more than one in North Dakota.

Hey... Thanks to the magic of all this fiber optic cable running around
the world, studios in New York actually could have a reverb chamber in
North Dakota if they wanted. That could be a hell of a business for
some bankrupt wheat farmer. Turn the silos into reverb chambers and
farm them out to studios all over the world. Real-time would cost more
than file processing, of course.

ulysses

Scott Dorsey wrote:

The V-77 is about a thousand dollars new, as I recall. It might be down
a bit since it's been out for a while. The 777 is a lot more money,
as is the Yamaha.

You can build a small chamber for a couple hundred bucks. I have one up
in the attic with an AR-4X in it, and it sounds good. It sure isn't the
cathedral at Chartres, though, and the 777 can almost be.


Yeah, but how much does a Kludge stereo spring reverb cost?

ulysses

Justin Ulysses Morse wrote:
Scott Dorsey wrote:

The V-77 is about a thousand dollars new, as I recall. It might be down
a bit since it's been out for a while. The 777 is a lot more money,
as is the Yamaha.

You can build a small chamber for a couple hundred bucks. I have one up
in the attic with an AR-4X in it, and it sounds good. It sure isn't the
cathedral at Chartres, though, and the 777 can almost be.

Yeah, but how much does a Kludge stereo spring reverb cost?

If you REALLY want one, I might have some PC boards around. You'll have to
stuff 'em and get the Accutronics tanks, though. And they use really crappy
2N3053s everywhere with coupling caps between stages, because that seemed
like a good idea back then. Not something I am particularly proud of today.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

Scott Dorsey wrote:

If you REALLY want one, I might have some PC boards around. You'll have to
stuff 'em and get the Accutronics tanks, though. And they use really crappy
2N3053s everywhere with coupling caps between stages, because that seemed
like a good idea back then. Not something I am particularly proud of today.

Then you couldn't ask me to pay much for it, could you? I was hoping
for some very Kludge stylized faceplate to go with it, but I can take
care of the rest. As a long-time RAP follower and Dorsey disciple, I'd
be honored to have a Kludge Spring in my studio. It'll go well with
all the Orban Blue and the Great River, and the Monte Mcguire Mod
SX202s and eventually a Cunningham plate reverb, all built or modified
by me. My studio will be like a RAP museum. Only it gets used less
than the stuff in most museums.

ulysses

"John S. Etnier" wrote in message ...
In article ,
Analogeezer wrote:

Tell me about it....I was doing 80's metal back then and in a pathetic
attempt at getting the "big 80's huge snare drum sound" I bought an
ElectroVoice
EVT-4500 spring reverb.
CLIP
I saw one of the EV's on Ebay a while back, went for $52 (I think I
paid $200 for it in 1983), I almost bought it just for old time's
sake!

Wasn't the EV a repackaging of the Tapco unit? Or was that a low-end
AKG that repackaged the Tapco? One or the other I believe.

The 305 was a lot better than the average twang tank, however.

I'm not sure...it wasn't the big Giant Tapco, this one was a single
rack space, had EQ (which was pretty useful), mono in and out, and an
adjustable decay time.

The time wasn't all that adjustable but it was a nice feature.

I've got a brochure on it somewhere around the house, I paid about
$300 for it IIRC.

Analogeezer

Justin Ulysses Morse wrote in message ...
Rob Adelman wrote:

I suppose it depends where you are. A room in New York probably costs a
lot more than one in North Dakota.

Hey... Thanks to the magic of all this fiber optic cable running around
the world, studios in New York actually could have a reverb chamber in
North Dakota if they wanted. That could be a hell of a business for
some bankrupt wheat farmer. Turn the silos into reverb chambers and
farm them out to studios all over the world. Real-time would cost more
than file processing, of course.

ulysses

Well right now bandwidth from fiber is cheap because of oversupply but
it's not that cheap. Once we have this economic recovery that we are
supposedly in already the demand for this will go back up, as will the
price.

I'd suggest that the monthly lease on this would run you more than
buying something...

Analogeezer