Try Google on rec.audio.pro...... a few weeks worth of reading there.
Best of luck, Fred

jf wrote:

Hey guys,

How does one become a recording engineer? I've had some experience in
recording over the past few years (nothing too serious) and was wondering if
most studios only accept some kind of degree or do they ever do in-house
training?

thanks
jim

The most important factor in becoming a recording engineer (or attaining other
"professional" position, for that matter) is to make sure you know little or
nothing about either the technology or aesthetics of recording.

The manager who hires you does not want anyone who knows anything. Knowledgable
people are a threat, because they think for themselves and often want to do good
work.

How does one become a recording engineer? I've had some experience in
recording over the past few years (nothing too serious) and was wondering
if most studios only accept some kind of degree or do they ever do in-house
training?

Hey guys,

How does one become a recording engineer? I've had some experience in
recording over the past few years (nothing too serious) and was wondering if
most studios only accept some kind of degree or do they ever do in-house
training?

thanks
jim

Flatter wrote:

jf wrote:



How does one become a recording engineer?

Start by standing directly behind a horse and tickle his testicles...

You are NOT a nice man. *laughs*

--Dale

"William Sommerwerck" wrote in message ...
The most important factor in becoming a recording engineer (or attaining other
"professional" position, for that matter) is to make sure you know little or
nothing about either the technology or aesthetics of recording.

The manager who hires you does not want anyone who knows anything. Knowledgable
people are a threat, because they think for themselves and often want to do good
work.


In every field I've worked in I've heard people say this.

The people who say this tend not to be very successful, so I wouldn't
follow this advice if I was looking for a career in recording.

In any professional field, you will normally be employed by someone
with more experience than you have. As a very general rule, they will
know better than you what to do. So try to learn from them, rather
than assume you are

(a) the only person knowledge about the subject; and
(b) the only person who cares about the product

Managers look for people who are bright and capable and who are
willing to take direction from them without making their lives
unpleasant. They are responsible for your performance and therefore
will expect you to do what you're told when it comes down to it,
though a good manager will always listen to your point of view and
sometimes be swayed by it.

Come in with this attitude to anything and you'll do a lot better than
anyone who espouses the above.

The reason they're not successful is because they refuse to go along with the
"predominant paradigm" -- not because they lack skill or talent.

To be successful, you pretty much have to start your own business. You'll never
be much of a success (regardless of how you define success) doing what others
tell you to do. The only way you can do high-quality, personally satisfying work
is to work for yourself.

Unfortunately, I learned this too late in life.


5016 wrote...

William Sommerwerck wrote...

The most important factor in becoming a recording engineer (or attaining
other "professional" position, for that matter) is to make sure you know
little or nothing about either the technology or aesthetics of recording.

The manager who hires you does not want anyone who knows anything.
Knowledgable people are a threat, because they think for themselves
and often want to do good work.

In every field I've worked in I've heard people say this.

The people who say this tend not to be very successful, so I wouldn't
follow this advice if I was looking for a career in recording.

In any professional field, you will normally be employed by someone
with more experience than you have. As a very general rule, they will
know better than you what to do. So try to learn from them, rather
than assume you are

(a) the only person knowledge about the subject; and
(b) the only person who cares about the product

Managers look for people who are bright and capable and who are
willing to take direction from them without making their lives
unpleasant. They are responsible for your performance and therefore
will expect you to do what you're told when it comes down to it,
though a good manager will always listen to your point of view and
sometimes be swayed by it.

Come in with this attitude to anything and you'll do a lot better than
anyone who espouses the above.

Just an added question. Are there really that many openings? A long
time ago, I was thinking about trying to get into recording engineer
job, but after looking at huge lack of opportunities out there, I
decided to go to college and get a degree and continue my music
dabbling as a hobby.

I would think it would be easier to start up a business than try to
find a job in someone's studio. That's just a guess, though. If I'm
wrong could someone clue me in?

renounced wrote:

Just an added question. Are there really that many openings? A long
time ago, I was thinking about trying to get into recording engineer
job, but after looking at huge lack of opportunities out there, I
decided to go to college and get a degree and continue my music
dabbling as a hobby.

There are more openings than ever before. But there are FAR FAR more
people trying to get into the business than ever before too.

I probably get two to three calls, e-mails, or faxes a day from people
looking for internships. I could not imagine what it must be like at
the big name studios.

I would think it would be easier to start up a business than try to
find a job in someone's studio. That's just a guess, though. If I'm
wrong could someone clue me in?

These days that's probably true. The thing is that, although it's easy
to start up a business, it's hard to keep one running, especially if you
don't have any studio experience to start out with.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

On 8 Jul 2003 15:40:23 -0400, (Scott Dorsey) wrote:

These days that's probably true. The thing is that, although it's easy
to start up a business, it's hard to keep one running, especially if you
don't have any studio experience to start out with.
--scott

I'll agree with you there. I still consider myself hobbyist, and not
an expert, but I have come across a lot of people who have tried to
start up a label with less experience as me. All of them have
flopped. I would agree that an internship would be a much better
foundation to begin a recording career on. Then maybe later move onto
starting up a new business. I remember that there were a few schools
out there that taught this stuff. Are those really worth the money?

renounced

In article ,
(5016) wrote:

The manager who hires you does not want anyone who knows anything.
Knowledgable people are a threat, because they think for themselves
and often want to do good work.


In every field I've worked in I've heard people say this.

The people who say this tend not to be very successful, so I wouldn't
follow this advice if I was looking for a career in recording.

In any professional field, you will normally be employed by someone
with more experience than you have. As a very general rule, they will
know better than you what to do. So try to learn from them, rather
than assume you are

(a) the only person knowledge about the subject; and
(b) the only person who cares about the product


I've seen both sides of this coin. There are plenty of people coming out
of recording school or a year or two of assisting (or worse - just had
enough money to buy gear at Guitar Center) who think they know it all
but can't tie their own shoes, and plenty of managers who know more
about Fendi than Focusrite. If you're coming up, don't skip the
education and the internship; it's important. It's difficult enough in
this biz even if you're really good at what you do. Thinking you can
take a shortcut around experience is a recipe for failure. However, make
sure you're learning from somebody who has a clue. Give your "boss" a
chance and see what he has to offer, but if he's a moron, you'll know it
pretty soon. At that point, get a different internship.

It goes both ways. Don't skip the first few years of your career and try
to go out on your own before you're ready, but after you've got real
experience, don't let yourself be held hostage by incompetence in
management. There are some places with management who actually know a
thing or two and appreciate your being there. If you aren't lucky enough
to find one of those, then maybe try to hang out your own shingle, but
only after going through the real world steps. Paying your dues isn't
just about getting treated worse than the next guy for a couple years.
Work hard and learn while you're in those trenches.

There are no shortcuts. If you treat the biz like a lottery ticket,
you'll have about the same chances of being sucessful - slim to none. If
you treat it like a legitimate career, you'll be able to make a living
even if you don't end up working with famous people.

--
Jay Frigoletto
Mastersuite
Los Angeles
www.promastering.com

Jay - atldigi wrote:

In article ,
(5016) wrote:

The manager who hires you does not want anyone who knows anything.
Knowledgable people are a threat, because they think for themselves
and often want to do good work.

There are people out there who fit this model, no argument, but I don't
think they are in the majority, at least not from my experience, and
they are easy enough to spot... and avoid!

I also think that this sort of person is really in the minority in the
pro-audio marketspace. In the way-too-many years that I've lived on the
fringe of pro-audio I have only run across one or two knowledgable and
insecure folks... in fact I think that one of the major factors that
drew me in was the unfettered sharing of knowledge and experience, even
when I was a snotty 16 year old visiting the first real (Teac Model 15
console driving an 80-8 and those lovely Altec 604s) studio on our town
and trying to con them out of some recording time for my bandG!

The people who say this tend not to be very successful, so I wouldn't
follow this advice if I was looking for a career in recording.

Indeed... insecure managers are to be avoided like the plague!!! They'll
make your life miserable.

However, it does seem that in the Information Technology field at least
they do have an uncanny success rate. UGH!!!

In any professional field, you will normally be employed by someone
with more experience than you have. As a very general rule, they will
know better than you what to do. So try to learn from them, rather
than assume you are

(a) the only person knowledge about the subject; and
(b) the only person who cares about the product

BINGO!!!

This is the trick, and sadly, when one is fresh out of school it isn't
always apparentG, at least to the one who is fresh out of school. I
was extremely fortunate that my first two bosses knew just how to handle
me. They didn't come down on me and tell me I didn't know anything, but
rather they demonstrated, in a gentle way, that I could learn from them
if I would just pay attention. And I did! I really wish that they were
still around to see the fruit's of thier efforts, I'd like to think
they'd be pleased.

lotsa good stuff snipped Paying your dues isn't
just about getting treated worse than the next guy for a couple years.
Work hard and learn while you're in those trenches.

Paying dues comes in all shapes and sizes. I'd have to argue that going
your own way is a perfectly fine course for some, but there are still
dues to pay, they just come in a different form. And, having made it to
my mid-40s I'd have to guess that the more conventional approach, with
it's more well known dues, probably is the best way. Oh wellG!

There are no shortcuts.

Yeah... why is that???

If you treat the biz like a lottery ticket,
you'll have about the same chances of being sucessful - slim to none. If
you treat it like a legitimate career, you'll be able to make a living
even if you don't end up working with famous people.

A very important point... if the only reason one goes into pro-audio is
to get wealthy and hang out with rock stars then it is quite possible
that one needs to reexamine one's goals. But if making music happen is
really important to you, well, then you are kinda stuckG!

"jf" wrote in message ...
Hey guys,

How does one become a recording engineer? I've had some experience in
recording over the past few years (nothing too serious) and was wondering if
most studios only accept some kind of degree or do they ever do in-house
training?

thanks
jim
________________________________
I'll give you a hint: it's red, messy when it spills, and runs thicker
than water:


Blood.


The first requirement to working in a recording studio is you'd better
be related to somebody there - an engineer, the front office, the
night janitor - anyone. Otherwise, hitch on to your state's
PowerBall, hope to win at least a 2-way, and either buy out a studio
or start one of your own.

The recording business is one of the most nespotistic industries to
break into. You'll have a better chance hooking up a job in that
5-sided building across the Potomac if you don't have family in the
engineering biz.

I mean, if you owned a studio or other sound business, why would you
choose an AIA graduate over your cousin the accountant or nephew/niece
the plumber??

Cuttin through the clutter, tellin' like it is...

-ChrisCoaster

On 9 Jul 2003 09:50:51 -0700, (ChrisCoaster) wrote:

The first requirement to working in a recording studio is you'd better
be related to somebody there - an engineer, the front office, the
night janitor - anyone. Otherwise, hitch on to your state's
PowerBall, hope to win at least a 2-way, and either buy out a studio
or start one of your own.

Yeah, get a degree in Engineering and you'll have a lot more money to
play with. It may take longer, but you won't starve. That's what I
did and now I've been pretty much able to buy what I want as far as
equipment goes without going into debt.

[OlympicPhil]

I work at Olympic Studios in London, one of the busiest, if not the busiest, pop studios in the UK.
All of the recording engineers that work here are freelancers that've made names for themselves as assistants and/or by doing demo recordings for bands that've later made it.
If you're set on becoming a recording engineer but have no major-studio experience then you should look for a job as a runner in a major studio.
A runner's job will morph into an assistant engineer's job within a few years, and within about 6 or 7 years of becoming a full assistant, (on avarage) you will have built up enough kudos and and enough of a client base of your own that you can go freelance yourlself.
Olympic (and our sister studio Abbey Road) have a long history of this process, going all the way back to the days when Hendrix recorded here.
(Actually, we had one of the assistants from the hendrix sessions here a few months ago, now a recording engineer of some stature).
Bear in mind that for the 7 years you're an assistant, you have literally NO social life. You will find yourself still bouncing down tracks and doing backups, recall sheets and other non-glamorous jobs until 4 or 5 in the morning MOST evenings, only to be starting another session the next day at 10am, all for a measly wage.

Of course, after the 7 years or so of being totally institutionalised, you then are pretty much guaranteed to get work, as long as you're friendly, easy to get on with, can do what you're told, and know the job inside out.

Just look at P-Dub... once an assistant at Olympic, now much sought after as a mix engineer and has just been doing surround mixes for Bjork.
(Also one of the nicest guys you could meet and is building his own GT40 in his spare time).

To summarise, great industry to be in if you can stick it out, but beware, many have fallen by the wayside, and many will.

Phil
Technical Services Engineer
Olympic Studios

PS No, I won't forward anyone's CV to the management. Use your own initiative not mine. How do you think I got this job?
I'll tell you... scouring the internet for email addresses of management or personnel of major recording studios... a process which can take months, and endless replies of "sorry we don't need anyone but we'll keep you on file".
Not for the faint hearted.