[[email protected]]

Hi,

I have been using the RNP for most of my 4 years recording, and have
felt that it has always been a better piece of gear than I am a
recordist.

This year my recordings are sounding better, these 4 years of trying
are paying off. Most all of these results have to do with playing
better, listening better, arranging better, editing better, mic
positioning, rehearsing more before tracking, etc.
Still....Reading all the juicy descriptions of API, Great River,
Chandler...just suppose I scraped together $900-$1200. What kind of
difference would I hear if I moved into the next level of pre, really?
I understand the law of diminishing returns, and would want to hear a
distinct improvement for that kind of dough. If I keep doing all the
other things that improve my recordings for free, and get no really
obvious improvement from a new pre I would be disappointed with myself
for doing this.

I record both acoustic and electric guitars, various other acoustic
stringed intruments, electric bass, no drums or keys. I use a Marshall
MXL 603s, V67G, and a Nady RSM 1 Ribbon. The new MCA [Marshall] shoeps
knockoff has been a pleasant surprise. I have no high end mics.

If I go for an upgrade, I have considered getting the A Designs 19" 2
space 500 form factor rack with...an API 512? a n SH Mono Gama? BAE
312? .......? This gets me into the budget I mentioned and leaves me
an extra space for another one later....I dunno. Thoughts?

Thanks,

d

[Scott Dorsey]

wrote:
This year my recordings are sounding better, these 4 years of trying
are paying off. Most all of these results have to do with playing
better, listening better, arranging better, editing better, mic
positioning, rehearsing more before tracking, etc.
Still....Reading all the juicy descriptions of API, Great River,
Chandler...just suppose I scraped together $900-$1200. What kind of
difference would I hear if I moved into the next level of pre, really?

It depends, really. You are basically at a fork in the road, and you
can take it toward more transparent preamps (like the Millennia Media)
or more colored preamps (like the API and Great River NV-series).
Both of these roads will take you to very different places, but they can
both be worthwhile places to be.

I understand the law of diminishing returns, and would want to hear a
distinct improvement for that kind of dough. If I keep doing all the
other things that improve my recordings for free, and get no really
obvious improvement from a new pre I would be disappointed with myself
for doing this.

Maybe. But most of the higher end preamps are available for you to try
out on loan from a good dealer. Call Fletcher and tell him you want to
try a Great River. If you don't like it, all you are out is the cost of
shipping. It's an interesting sound, but it's one that isn't appropriate
for everything. So you should think about this as adding something to
your existing studio, not as an upgrade to it.

I record both acoustic and electric guitars, various other acoustic
stringed intruments, electric bass, no drums or keys. I use a Marshall
MXL 603s, V67G, and a Nady RSM 1 Ribbon. The new MCA [Marshall] shoeps
knockoff has been a pleasant surprise. I have no high end mics.

I think at this point you would gain a lot more from better microphones
than from a better preamp. I notice, also, that you don't have any dynamic
mikes listed. You might look into some higher-grade dynamics, if only
to give you a wider available palette.

If I go for an upgrade, I have considered getting the A Designs 19" 2
space 500 form factor rack with...an API 512? a n SH Mono Gama? BAE
312? .......? This gets me into the budget I mentioned and leaves me
an extra space for another one later....I dunno. Thoughts?

The API racks give you the ability to mix and match a lot of different kinds
of gear into a small space, if that's important to you.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[drichard]

Hi d,

Like Scott, I think you will hear a much bigger difference in your
recordings with different microphones than you will with a different
preamp. Depending on how you go, $1200 spent wisely could yield one or
more very nice microphone choices.

I'm curious - which MXL mic is a "Schoeps knockoff"?

Dean

On Sep 23, 9:12 am, wrote:
Hi,

I have been using the RNP for most of my 4 years recording, and have
felt that it has always been a better piece of gear than I am a
recordist.

This year my recordings are sounding better, these 4 years of trying
are paying off. Most all of these results have to do with playing
better, listening better, arranging better, editing better, mic
positioning, rehearsing more before tracking, etc.
Still....Reading all the juicy descriptions of API, Great River,
Chandler...just suppose I scraped together $900-$1200. What kind of
difference would I hear if I moved into the next level of pre, really?
I understand the law of diminishing returns, and would want to hear a
distinct improvement for that kind of dough. If I keep doing all the
other things that improve my recordings for free, and get no really
obvious improvement from a new pre I would be disappointed with myself
for doing this.

I record both acoustic and electric guitars, various other acoustic
stringed intruments, electric bass, no drums or keys. I use a Marshall
MXL 603s, V67G, and a Nady RSM 1 Ribbon. The new MCA [Marshall] shoeps
knockoff has been a pleasant surprise. I have no high end mics.

If I go for an upgrade, I have considered getting the A Designs 19" 2
space 500 form factor rack with...an API 512? a n SH Mono Gama? BAE
312? .......? This gets me into the budget I mentioned and leaves me
an extra space for another one later....I dunno. Thoughts?

Thanks,

d

[[email protected]]

On Sep 23, 10:20 am, (Scott Dorsey) wrote:
wrote:
This year my recordings are sounding better, these 4 years of trying
are paying off. Most all of these results have to do with playing
better, listening better, arranging better, editing better, mic
positioning, rehearsing more before tracking, etc.
Still....Reading all the juicy descriptions of API, Great River,
Chandler...just suppose I scraped together $900-$1200. What kind of
difference would I hear if I moved into the next level of pre, really?

It depends, really. You are basically at a fork in the road, and you
can take it toward more transparent preamps (like the Millennia Media)
or more colored preamps (like the API and Great River NV-series).
Both of these roads will take you to very different places, but they can
both be worthwhile places to be.

I understand the law of diminishing returns, and would want to hear a
distinct improvement for that kind of dough. If I keep doing all the
other things that improve my recordings for free, and get no really
obvious improvement from a new pre I would be disappointed with myself
for doing this.

Maybe. But most of the higher end preamps are available for you to try
out on loan from a good dealer. Call Fletcher and tell him you want to
try a Great River. If you don't like it, all you are out is the cost of
shipping. It's an interesting sound, but it's one that isn't appropriate
for everything. So you should think about this as adding something to
your existing studio, not as an upgrade to it.

I record both acoustic and electric guitars, various other acoustic
stringed intruments, electric bass, no drums or keys. I use a Marshall
MXL 603s, V67G, and a Nady RSM 1 Ribbon. The new MCA [Marshall] shoeps
knockoff has been a pleasant surprise. I have no high end mics.

I think at this point you would gain a lot more from better microphones
than from a better preamp. I notice, also, that you don't have any dynamic
mikes listed. You might look into some higher-grade dynamics, if only
to give you a wider available palette.

If I go for an upgrade, I have considered getting the A Designs 19" 2
space 500 form factor rack with...an API 512? a n SH Mono Gama? BAE
312? .......? This gets me into the budget I mentioned and leaves me
an extra space for another one later....I dunno. Thoughts?

The API racks give you the ability to mix and match a lot of different kinds
of gear into a small space, if that's important to you.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

Thanks for the advice. I responded to drichard on the shoeps question
privately by mistake - for the record then, it is my understanding
that the MCA SP1 is based on a shoeps circuit.

Scott, I also have an SM58 from my live days, I take the ball off and
get pretty decent sounds on electric guitars. I know I should get an
sm57 for that, but have not yet been unhappy enough with the sm58 to
do so.

I want to upgrade/add gear such that no one area of the studio is
stupidly lacking while another area is uselessly ahead of everything
else, its goodness masked by the delinquent stuff. For example, I've
considered getting a THD hotplate to get the most from my 2 or 3 nice
guitar amps - I can't currently turn them up to get the best sound
without hurting the neighbor relations. This is the kind of
deliberating I am trying to do....what one or two things could I spend
this money on that will render the most benefit holistically for my
little studio. I put up some rigid fiberglass and everything improved
at a stroke. I had thought that by upgrading the preamp I might see
better sounds from all of my current mics, and thereby raise the bar
all around. If the RNP vs anything else is not such a powerful
difference though...I guess that is the nub of my question. Are the
API, Millenium, etc. pres SO much better than the RNP that I can again
improve everything at a stroke? I supposed you answered when you said
I would see more results with a better mic.

No matter how anyone might answer this question, I will absolutely
take your advice and ask Fletcher for a test drive, this way my ears
will tell me how this works in my set up, with all of my mics and
instruments. While I bought the RNP from Mercenary, I had no idea I
could ask this of them - terrific suggestion, thanks a million!

d

[Scott Dorsey]

wrote:

Thanks for the advice. I responded to drichard on the shoeps question
privately by mistake - for the record then, it is my understanding
that the MCA SP1 is based on a shoeps circuit.

It is, but the truth is that probably more than half the condenser microphones
out there use that same circuit. And the sound of a condenser mike has a lot
more to do with the capsule than the electronics anyway. The capsule on that
mike... well, it's not a Schoeps, we'll leave it at that.

Scott, I also have an SM58 from my live days, I take the ball off and
get pretty decent sounds on electric guitars. I know I should get an
sm57 for that, but have not yet been unhappy enough with the sm58 to
do so.

The SM-58 with the ball off sounds just like an SM-57. The advantage
of the SM-57 is that if you drop the SM-58 with the ball off, you'll wreck
the element because it's completely unprotected. Sometimes stuff gets
dropped.

I want to upgrade/add gear such that no one area of the studio is
stupidly lacking while another area is uselessly ahead of everything
else, its goodness masked by the delinquent stuff. For example, I've
considered getting a THD hotplate to get the most from my 2 or 3 nice
guitar amps - I can't currently turn them up to get the best sound
without hurting the neighbor relations.

You can make your own resistive load if you want... but you should know
that some of the guitar tone at high levels comes from the speaker cone
breaking up, and you won't get that with a load.

You WILL get it with a sealed isolation box, though.

This is the kind of
deliberating I am trying to do....what one or two things could I spend
this money on that will render the most benefit holistically for my
little studio. I put up some rigid fiberglass and everything improved
at a stroke. I had thought that by upgrading the preamp I might see
better sounds from all of my current mics, and thereby raise the bar
all around.

It's true, you will. BUT, I think you'll get a lot more for your dollar
by buying a used 421 and a used RE-20 than you will spending the same money
for a preamp.

If the RNP vs anything else is not such a powerful
difference though...I guess that is the nub of my question. Are the
API, Millenium, etc. pres SO much better than the RNP that I can again
improve everything at a stroke? I supposed you answered when you said
I would see more results with a better mic.

The question is how much improvement you get per dollar. Yes, a Millennia
will be cleaner than the RNP and make all your microphones sound better.
Someday you might want to consider it. But I'd invest in better microphones
first, personally, because I think you will get more for your money at this
point.

No matter how anyone might answer this question, I will absolutely
take your advice and ask Fletcher for a test drive, this way my ears
will tell me how this works in my set up, with all of my mics and
instruments. While I bought the RNP from Mercenary, I had no idea I
could ask this of them - terrific suggestion, thanks a million!

Ask him for a test drive of a couple mikes too. He is a good guy.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[Ty Ford]

On Sun, 23 Sep 2007 10:12:26 -0400, wrote
(in article . com):

Hi,

I have been using the RNP for most of my 4 years recording, and have
felt that it has always been a better piece of gear than I am a
recordist.

This year my recordings are sounding better, these 4 years of trying
are paying off. Most all of these results have to do with playing
better, listening better, arranging better, editing better, mic
positioning, rehearsing more before tracking, etc.
Still....Reading all the juicy descriptions of API, Great River,
Chandler...just suppose I scraped together $900-$1200. What kind of
difference would I hear if I moved into the next level of pre, really?
I understand the law of diminishing returns, and would want to hear a
distinct improvement for that kind of dough. If I keep doing all the
other things that improve my recordings for free, and get no really
obvious improvement from a new pre I would be disappointed with myself
for doing this.

I record both acoustic and electric guitars, various other acoustic
stringed intruments, electric bass, no drums or keys. I use a Marshall
MXL 603s, V67G, and a Nady RSM 1 Ribbon. The new MCA [Marshall] shoeps
knockoff has been a pleasant surprise. I have no high end mics.

If I go for an upgrade, I have considered getting the A Designs 19" 2
space 500 form factor rack with...an API 512? a n SH Mono Gama? BAE
312? .......? This gets me into the budget I mentioned and leaves me
an extra space for another one later....I dunno. Thoughts?

Thanks,

d


stick a gml or millennia media in there for good measure.

Regards,

Ty Ford

--Audio Equipment Reviews Audio Production Services
Acting and Voiceover Demos http://www.tyford.com
Guitar player?:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4RZJ9MptZmU

[Ty Ford]

On Sun, 23 Sep 2007 14:41:01 -0400, Soundhaspriority wrote
(in article ):


"drichard" wrote in message
ups.com...
Hi d,

Like Scott, I think you will hear a much bigger difference in your
recordings with different microphones than you will with a different
preamp. Depending on how you go, $1200 spent wisely could yield one or
more very nice microphone choices.

I'm curious - which MXL mic is a "Schoeps knockoff"?

Dean

I think "d" is a little misinformed on that point. MXL uses the Schoeps
preamp circuit, but "knockoff" is usually reserved for a design that copies
the Schoeps capsule. The Studio Projects C-4 is as close to a Schoeps
knockoff as I've seen, but it doesn't use the Schoeps circuit.

Bob Morein
(310) 237-6511



::Cough:: audix scx-1 ::Cough:::

Ty Ford



--Audio Equipment Reviews Audio Production Services
Acting and Voiceover Demos http://www.tyford.com
Guitar player?:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4RZJ9MptZmU

[Mike Rivers]

On Sep 23, 12:16 pm, wrote:

- for the record then, it is my understanding
that the MCA SP1 is based on a shoeps circuit.

The circuit is similar to one that Shoeps used, but that's just a
handful of parts and is really pretty common. The part that ISN'T
Shoeps, and that makes a lot more difference, is the capsule.

I want to upgrade/add gear such that no one area of the studio is
stupidly lacking while another area is uselessly ahead of everything
else, its goodness masked by the delinquent stuff.

That's smart, but you have a pretty decent mic preamp now. You should
get some mics that are as good as your preamp. You haven't mentioned
any yet. A preamp will make more difference when you have better mics,
and better mics connected to the preamp you have now will sound better
than the mics you have now.

I put up some rigid fiberglass and everything improved
at a stroke.

That was a good idea, too.

I had thought that by upgrading the preamp I might see
better sounds from all of my current mics, and thereby raise the bar
all around.

Not a big difference. The RNMP, with the exception of a couple of dB
more noise than some, is certainly a good match for the mics you have
now. A Millenia might even reveal more flaws in your mics than what
you're hearing now - which will encourage you to buy better mics. If
you were using a low budget mixer for a mic preamp I'd suggest (with
your mic collection) to upgrade to an RNMP. But since you're already
there, a hop with the other foot will get you further. Then when
you're ready to spend more money, a preamp upgrade will be more
effective.

[[email protected]]

On 2007-09-23 (ScottDorsey) said:
I want to upgrade/add gear such that no one area of the studio is
stupidly lacking while another area is uselessly ahead of
everything else, its goodness masked by the delinquent stuff.
snippage
It's true, you will. BUT, I think you'll get a lot more for your
dollar by buying a used 421 and a used RE-20 than you will spending
the same money for a preamp.
I'd agree with MR. Dorsey here again, as usual. From what
I've heard the RNMP does a nice job as a mic preamp, and I
think you'd really be well served by having those two
microphones on your pallet.

The question is how much improvement you get per dollar. Yes, a
Millennia will be cleaner than the RNP and make all your
microphones sound better. Someday you might want to consider it.
But I'd invest in better microphones first, personally, because I
think you will get more for your money at this point.
AGain agreed. YOu can always watch your gain structure to
keep things clean with the rnmp and the rest of your signal
chain, but some better (different) mics will increase the
pallet you have available, and those two mics are a good
start.



Richard webb,
Replace anything before the @ symbol with elspider for real
email address.



Great audio is never heard by the average person, but bad
audio is heard by everyone.

[Geoff]

You won't being UPGRADING to something BETTER than an RNP - you would be
CHANGING to something DIFFERENT to an RNP.

geoff

[[email protected]]

On Sep 23, 3:02 pm, Mike Rivers wrote:
On Sep 23, 12:16 pm, wrote:

- for the record then, it is my understanding
that the MCA SP1 is based on a shoeps circuit.

The circuit is similar to one that Shoeps used, but that's just a
handful of parts and is really pretty common. The part that ISN'T
Shoeps, and that makes a lot more difference, is the capsule.

I want to upgrade/add gear such that no one area of the studio is
stupidly lacking while another area is uselessly ahead of everything
else, its goodness masked by the delinquent stuff.

That's smart, but you have a pretty decent mic preamp now. You should
get some mics that are as good as your preamp. You haven't mentioned
any yet. A preamp will make more difference when you have better mics,
and better mics connected to the preamp you have now will sound better
than the mics you have now.

I put up some rigid fiberglass and everything improved
at a stroke.

That was a good idea, too.

I had thought that by upgrading the preamp I might see
better sounds from all of my current mics, and thereby raise the bar
all around.

Not a big difference. The RNMP, with the exception of a couple of dB
more noise than some, is certainly a good match for the mics you have
now. A Millenia might even reveal more flaws in your mics than what
you're hearing now - which will encourage you to buy better mics. If
you were using a low budget mixer for a mic preamp I'd suggest (with
your mic collection) to upgrade to an RNMP. But since you're already
there, a hop with the other foot will get you further. Then when
you're ready to spend more money, a preamp upgrade will be more
effective.

Thanks Mike, Scott and everyone - this is precisely the kind of
analysis I was looking for. And thanks for the validation of my
approach Mike, but if I have done anything smart over the last 4 years
it has been to occasionally post a question here and listen closely to
the answers. I will now try to ramp down my preamp gear lust... this
will be easy only because I have a solid excuse to go mic shopping.


d