[[email protected]]

Howdy. An audio/video newbie here. I'm going to do some videos of a
motorcycle rally and I'm trying to think of clever ways to record
motorcycles. This is what I've come up with so far:
Position a camera and have a motorcycle drive from off camera onto the
camera and then off camera again. Assuming the motorcycle came from
camera left, I would have the sound for the left channel at full and
start fading out after the motorcycle passed the center of the screen,
or maybe earlier. I would have the right channel off initially and
have the motorcycle sound fade in as it approached the right side of
the image.
Hey, I said I was a newbie.
This would be for natural sound that would be a background when
someone is talking.
Anyone else have any other suggestions for clever ways to mic a
motorcycle rally?
My equipment includes a sony shotgun mic -- I can't remember which one
-- a Sony wireless lavalier microphone (I think the Sony UW-PC1), a
corded lavalier microphone, an EV 635a and two Beyer M-58 microphones.
In addition to the Sony video camera I also have an M-Audio MicroTrak.
Thanks in advance for any help.

[Don Pearce]

On Mon, 17 Sep 2007 13:58:46 -0000, wrote:

Howdy. An audio/video newbie here. I'm going to do some videos of a
motorcycle rally and I'm trying to think of clever ways to record
motorcycles. This is what I've come up with so far:
Position a camera and have a motorcycle drive from off camera onto the
camera and then off camera again. Assuming the motorcycle came from
camera left, I would have the sound for the left channel at full and
start fading out after the motorcycle passed the center of the screen,
or maybe earlier. I would have the right channel off initially and
have the motorcycle sound fade in as it approached the right side of
the image.
Hey, I said I was a newbie.
This would be for natural sound that would be a background when
someone is talking.
Anyone else have any other suggestions for clever ways to mic a
motorcycle rally?
My equipment includes a sony shotgun mic -- I can't remember which one
-- a Sony wireless lavalier microphone (I think the Sony UW-PC1), a
corded lavalier microphone, an EV 635a and two Beyer M-58 microphones.
In addition to the Sony video camera I also have an M-Audio MicroTrak.
Thanks in advance for any help.

Just one tip. By all means have the bike ride into shot, but don't let
it ride out of shot. If you do that you end up with a screen full of
nothing, which is never a good way to terminate a scene. Try and
finish each scene just before the bike passes you unless you are
cutting instantly to another scene of the same bike approaching
somewhere else.

Unfortunately shots of bikes are inherently uninteresting, and you are
going to need some decent commentary and music to put some life into
the production.

d

--
Pearce Consulting
http://www.pearce.uk.com

[Scott Dorsey]

Don Pearce wrote:
Unfortunately shots of bikes are inherently uninteresting, and you are
going to need some decent commentary and music to put some life into
the production.

Shots of bikes are very interesting to bike fans, especially if they
involve women with bare breasts.

I agree that a musical background helps a lot, especially if the picture
is cut to the sound.

Don't forget to get plenty of close-ups, both static and moving, which
you can insert in to break things up and keep them from being monotonous.

And breasts. Lots of breasts.
--scott


--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[Don Pearce]

On 17 Sep 2007 10:46:40 -0400, (Scott Dorsey) wrote:

Don Pearce wrote:
Unfortunately shots of bikes are inherently uninteresting, and you are
going to need some decent commentary and music to put some life into
the production.

Shots of bikes are very interesting to bike fans, especially if they
involve women with bare breasts.

I agree that a musical background helps a lot, especially if the picture
is cut to the sound.

Don't forget to get plenty of close-ups, both static and moving, which
you can insert in to break things up and keep them from being monotonous.

And breasts. Lots of breasts.
--scott

Have you seen the sort of breasts that tend to hang (pun intended)
around bikes? You really don't want too many of those. The only way to
get some nice ones is to actually pay models.

d

--
Pearce Consulting
http://www.pearce.uk.com

[Mike Rivers]

Don't record the sound of the exhaust from a Harley. They hold a
copyright on it. Really.

[Mark]

On Sep 17, 11:23 am, Mike Rivers wrote:
Don't record the sound of the exhaust from a Harley. They hold a
copyright on it. Really.

yep...getting a good sounding recording of a motorcylce is all about
which motorcycle you choose to record...

hmmmm..just like everything else...

Mark

[Roy W. Rising[_2_]]

Mike Rivers wrote:
Don't record the sound of the exhaust from a Harley. They hold a
copyright on it. Really.

Harley-Davidson tried to trademark the sound in 1994. It withdrew the
application in 2000.

http://www.straightdope.com/columns/000915.html

I suggest you record the bikes in stereo. Consider passive attenuators
between the mic(s) and the inputs ... those things are LOUD! I measured
the output of an EV 635A trackside as a Top Fuel Dragster passed ~ +4 dBu!!
No preamp required! ;-)

--
~
~ Roy
"If you notice the sound, it's wrong!"

[nebulax]

On Sep 17, 11:23 am, Mike Rivers wrote:
Don't record the sound of the exhaust from a Harley. They hold a
copyright on it. Really.

No need to record a real Harley... on Meat Loaf's "Bat Out of Hell",
Todd Rundgren did the motorcycle sounds with his guitar!

[Harry Lavo]

Crown's SASS sampler contains a recording of a real Harley revving up,
departing, turning, and then rumbling on by...perhaps they'll lease it to
you.


"nebulax" wrote in message
ups.com...
On Sep 17, 11:23 am, Mike Rivers wrote:
Don't record the sound of the exhaust from a Harley. They hold a
copyright on it. Really.

No need to record a real Harley... on Meat Loaf's "Bat Out of Hell",
Todd Rundgren did the motorcycle sounds with his guitar!

[Don Pearce]

On Mon, 17 Sep 2007 16:10:43 -0400, "Harry Lavo"
wrote:

Crown's SASS sampler contains a recording of a real Harley revving up,
departing, turning, and then rumbling on by...perhaps they'll lease it to
you.


"nebulax" wrote in message
oups.com...
On Sep 17, 11:23 am, Mike Rivers wrote:
Don't record the sound of the exhaust from a Harley. They hold a
copyright on it. Really.

No need to record a real Harley... on Meat Loaf's "Bat Out of Hell",
Todd Rundgren did the motorcycle sounds with his guitar!



Why is everyone so hung up on Harleys? It is quite easy to get hold of
recordings of real motorbikes.

d

--
Pearce Consulting
http://www.pearce.uk.com

[Scott Dorsey]

Don Pearce wrote:

Why is everyone so hung up on Harleys? It is quite easy to get hold of
recordings of real motorbikes.

I dunno. As for me, I'm just hung up on breasts.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[Don Pearce]

On 17 Sep 2007 16:26:15 -0400, (Scott Dorsey) wrote:

Don Pearce wrote:

Why is everyone so hung up on Harleys? It is quite easy to get hold of
recordings of real motorbikes.

I dunno. As for me, I'm just hung up on breasts.

With hook-shaped nipples, I presume?

d

--
Pearce Consulting
http://www.pearce.uk.com

[Ron Capik]

Scott Dorsey wrote:

Don Pearce wrote:

Why is everyone so hung up on Harleys? It is quite easy to get hold of
recordings of real motorbikes.

I dunno. As for me, I'm just hung up on breasts.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

So, how long ago did your subscription to Sleezy Rider expire?
G


Later...

Ron Capik
--

[WillStG]

On Sep 17, 9:58 am, wrote:
Howdy. An audio/video newbie here. I'm going to do some videos of a
motorcycle rally and I'm trying to think of clever ways to record
motorcycles. This is what I've come up with so far:
Position a camera and have a motorcycle drive from off camera onto the
camera and then off camera again. Assuming the motorcycle came from
camera left, I would have the sound for the left channel at full and
start fading out after the motorcycle passed the center of the screen,
or maybe earlier. I would have the right channel off initially and
have the motorcycle sound fade in as it approached the right side of
the image.
Hey, I said I was a newbie.
This would be for natural sound that would be a background when
someone is talking.
Anyone else have any other suggestions for clever ways to mic a
motorcycle rally?
My equipment includes a sony shotgun mic -- I can't remember which one
-- a Sony wireless lavalier microphone (I think the Sony UW-PC1), a
corded lavalier microphone, an EV 635a and two Beyer M-58 microphones.
In addition to the Sony video camera I also have an M-Audio MicroTrak.
Thanks in advance for any help.

Well are the interviews live? If you have only 2 channels on
your camera or recorder to record on, you put the natural sound in
mono on one channel and mix the interview mics on the other. making
sure the interview mics sound good is job one. What it sounds like
you want to do - follow the motorcycle's motion basically panning one
mic/channel of sound is better done in "Post", with a pan pot or with
automated faders. Even then, if you pan the motorcycle nats too wide
it will distract people from the conversation in the foreground, so
you might want to keep it somewhat less than wide panned.

But if the interviews/voiceovers are being added later, and all
you are recording is nats, I might try using the omni M-58's as a
spaced pair for ambience (maybe 18 inches apart) , and mix the shotgun
in the middle for coherence.

I wouldn't try to mix mics and sfx simutaneously though. Maybe
some guys who do this more than me might futz around with mixing more
than talent mics live, but I wouldn't want to blow a gig trying to be
too clever - especially when you can do it later.

g


Will Miho
NY TV/Audio Post/Music/Live Sound Guy
"The large print giveth and the small print taketh away..." Tom Waits

[Steven Sullivan]

nebulax wrote:
On Sep 17, 11:23 am, Mike Rivers wrote:
Don't record the sound of the exhaust from a Harley. They hold a
copyright on it. Really.

No need to record a real Harley... on Meat Loaf's "Bat Out of Hell",
Todd Rundgren did the motorcycle sounds with his guitar!


No need to use a fake...Pink Floyd put a real one on 'Atom Heart Mother'.


___
-S
"As human beings, we understand the world through simile, analogy,
metaphor, narrative and, sometimes, claymation." - B. Mason

[Tracy Wintermute]

On 17 Sep 2007 16:18:25 GMT, Roy W. Rising
wrote:


I suggest you record the bikes in stereo. Consider passive attenuators
between the mic(s) and the inputs ... those things are LOUD! I measured
the output of an EV 635A trackside as a Top Fuel Dragster passed ~ +4 dBu!!
No preamp required! ;-)


Are you actually equating the SPL of a Top Fuel Dragster to that of a
motorcycle? ANY motorcycle, including a Pro-Stock Bike?

Wow!
Perhaps you've gotten your terminology all out of whack...



====================
Tracy Wintermute

Rushcreek Ranch
====================

[Scott Dorsey]

Tracy Wintermute wrote:
On 17 Sep 2007 16:18:25 GMT, Roy W. Rising
wrote:

I suggest you record the bikes in stereo. Consider passive attenuators
between the mic(s) and the inputs ... those things are LOUD! I measured
the output of an EV 635A trackside as a Top Fuel Dragster passed ~ +4 dBu!!
No preamp required! ;-)

Are you actually equating the SPL of a Top Fuel Dragster to that of a
motorcycle? ANY motorcycle, including a Pro-Stock Bike?

For one thing, motorcycles don't explode much...
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[Peter Larsen]

" wrote:

Okay, I did one and I learned an important lesson. Dynamic mics don't
do a good job of picking up Harley sound, especially if the low pass
filter is on.

? ...

I have to use the Harley sound when a guy is talking
about how manly they sound and it sounds like a 90cc Honda.

You *do* have eq? ... or even better: a multiband compressor?

The shotgun mic is a phantom-powered condenser and I didn't use it
because I could stick a Beyer so much closer, but being closer didn't
help much this time. I didn't record with on the shotgun mic channel,
another mistake.
Anyone thought of any other ideas? It's not live.

Clean low range: DPA 4006 or 4007 or perhaps a smaller relative fitted
to the bike or any mike designed for fitting on a drumkit. Not that I
like the noise those szironified Harleys' make ... except the Electra
Glide version.


Kind regards

Peter Larsen

[[email protected][_2_]]

Okay, I did one and I learned an important lesson. Dynamic mics don't
do a good job of picking up Harley sound, especially if the low pass
filter is on. I have to use the Harley sound when a guy is talking
about how manly they sound and it sounds like a 90cc Honda.
The shotgun mic is a phantom-powered condenser and I didn't use it
because I could stick a Beyer so much closer, but being closer didn't
help much this time. I didn't record with on the shotgun mic channel,
another mistake.
Anyone thought of any other ideas? It's not live.

[Scott Dorsey]

wrote:
Okay, I did one and I learned an important lesson. Dynamic mics don't
do a good job of picking up Harley sound, especially if the low pass
filter is on. I have to use the Harley sound when a guy is talking
about how manly they sound and it sounds like a 90cc Honda.

Your problem was probably the low-pass filter and not the fact that it
was a dynamic... in fact the 421 is my favorite mike for that kind of
thing.

Try EQing the sample you have... if you cannot EQ the bottom end up enough,
try a subharmonic synthesizer. Be VERY judicious about the thing, though.

The shotgun mic is a phantom-powered condenser and I didn't use it
because I could stick a Beyer so much closer, but being closer didn't
help much this time. I didn't record with on the shotgun mic channel,
another mistake.

You're also not going to get a lot of low end with most shotguns, which
are designed to pull dialogue out of the muck more than to give a neutral
sound.

Anyone thought of any other ideas? It's not live.

Whenever you record, immediately play it back and listen to make sure you
know what you've got. Better to find you have a problem in the field than
when you get into post.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[[email protected]]

On Sep 19, 8:27 am, " stephenti...@my-
deja.com wrote:
Okay, I did one and I learned an important lesson. Dynamic mics don't
do a good job of picking up Harley sound, especially if the low pass
filter is on. I have to use the Harley sound when a guy is talking
about how manly they sound and it sounds like a 90cc Honda.
The shotgun mic is a phantom-powered condenser and I didn't use it
because I could stick a Beyer so much closer, but being closer didn't
help much this time. I didn't record with on the shotgun mic channel,
another mistake.
Anyone thought of any other ideas? It's not live.

Want some practise? Go to a local Harley shop and ask the service
manager to record one of the scooters when they give it some test
time. Be careful not to get too close to the exhaust. They spit oil (I
found this out the hard way). Use some reasonable condenser omnis with
no filters into the recorder. Even an inexpensive Panasonic capsule
based omni will work. Record in low or no wind conditions or use a
Rycote or Fuzzy. Watch out for preamp clipping. Best if you record 24
bit and set levels very conservatively.

bobs

Bob Smith
BS Studios
we organize chaos
http://www.bsstudios.com

[Jay Kadis]

In article ,
Peter Larsen wrote:

Clean low range: DPA 4006 or 4007 or perhaps a smaller relative fitted
to the bike or any mike designed for fitting on a drumkit. Not that I
like the noise those szironified Harleys' make ... except the Electra
Glide version.


Kind regards

Peter Larsen

I recorded a friend's highly-modified Ducati with a pair of 4006s and we
had to get about 10 feet back to keep the mics from clipping.

-Jay

--
x------- Jay Kadis ------- x ---- Jay's Attic Studio ----x
x Lecturer, Audio Engineer x Dexter Records x
x CCRMA, Stanford University x http://www.offbeats.com/ x
x---------- http://ccrma.stanford.edu/~jay/ ------------x

[[email protected][_2_]]

On Sep 19, 8:58 am, Peter Larsen
wrote:

Clean low range: DPA 4006 or 4007 or perhaps a smaller relative fitted
to the bike or any mike designed for fitting on a drumkit. Not that I
like the noise those szironified Harleys' make ... except the Electra
Glide version.

I do have an EV mike that's pretty flat that's supposed to be designed
for drum kits. I'll have to dig that out.
On Thursday I'll record Dyno Drag racing. Here's a sample on YouTube
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SFJKiOyfnco
Mine will be in the day time. And no babes in bikinis starting the
racers. :-(

They get their wheels smoking and the bikes get pretty loud. I think
I'll open with about a 4-second shot of a revving engine and smoking
wheel, then go into the interviews.
I have no equalizer. The software I use, Avid, probably does but I
haven't learned how to use it yet.

[Peter Larsen]

Jay Kadis wrote:

In article ,
Peter Larsen wrote:

Clean low range: DPA 4006 or 4007 or perhaps a smaller relative fitted
to the bike or any mike designed for fitting on a drumkit. Not that I
like the noise those szironified Harleys' make ... except the Electra
Glide version.

Kind regards

Peter Larsen

I recorded a friend's highly-modified Ducati with a pair of 4006s and we
had to get about 10 feet back to keep the mics from clipping.

I would need to refind my scribbled notes from a demo, but I think it is
140+ for them to exceed 1 percent harmonic distortion, I think it was
148, but I am not sure. They also said what the actual capsule
limitation is, but it is at least 10 dB louder. Did you try a line
input?

-Jay


Kind regards

Peter Larsen

[WillStG]

On Sep 19, 12:27 pm, " stephenti...@my-
deja.com wrote:
Okay, I did one and I learned an important lesson. Dynamic mics don't
do a good job of picking up Harley sound, especially if the low pass
filter is on. I have to use the Harley sound when a guy is talking
about how manly they sound and it sounds like a 90cc Honda.
The shotgun mic is a phantom-powered condenser and I didn't use it
because I could stick a Beyer so much closer, but being closer didn't
help much this time. I didn't record with on the shotgun mic channel,
another mistake.
Anyone thought of any other ideas? It's not live.

Omnis do a good job with the low end, I have used lavs for music
because they sound good even though they look a little silly
sometimes. But even on voices sometimes I leave filters off, if I can
(unless they slam my limiters with useless wind/out of hearing range
noise.). And having some air/distance between you and the bikes is a
good thing, that's the sound most people think of, not the close sound
of your head up the tailpipe ripping your head off. A violin or a sax
or something I like to give some air too, that's part of the sound.

Will Miho
NY TV/Audio Post/Music/Live Sound Guy
"The large print giveth and the small print taketh away..." Tom Waits

[WillStG]

Also if you need to record some sound after the fact, if you have an
idea of how long the cut you need is, you can match a close in length
sample later in Cubase or similar DAWs by timewarp sample stretching.
And you can try to record a stereo panning effect by physically
panning on and off axis a stereo array to simulate the motorcycle
going by, if you're just recording a stationary bike. Or try the
Waves Doppler effect plugin/Enigma.

Recording into a laptop, with a small window of a video clip running
so you have an idea of what you are trying to match to picture might
be fun too, if it ain't costing you money to experiment.

Will Miho
NY TV/Audio Post/Music/Live Sound Guy
"The large print giveth and the small print taketh away..." Tom Waits

[Jay Kadis]

In article ,
Peter Larsen wrote:

Jay Kadis wrote:

In article ,
Peter Larsen wrote:

Clean low range: DPA 4006 or 4007 or perhaps a smaller relative fitted
to the bike or any mike designed for fitting on a drumkit. Not that I
like the noise those szironified Harleys' make ... except the Electra
Glide version.

Kind regards

Peter Larsen

I recorded a friend's highly-modified Ducati with a pair of 4006s and we
had to get about 10 feet back to keep the mics from clipping.

I would need to refind my scribbled notes from a demo, but I think it is
140+ for them to exceed 1 percent harmonic distortion, I think it was
148, but I am not sure. They also said what the actual capsule
limitation is, but it is at least 10 dB louder. Did you try a line
input?

-Jay


Kind regards

Peter Larsen

Part of the problem was that the preamp had minimum 10 dB gain. I
didn't try line in as the mics need phantom power. Actually, at 10 feet
it sounded just about right anyway.

-Jay

--
x------- Jay Kadis ------- x ---- Jay's Attic Studio ----x
x Lecturer, Audio Engineer x Dexter Records x
x CCRMA, Stanford University x http://www.offbeats.com/ x
x---------- http://ccrma.stanford.edu/~jay/ ------------x

[Michael Rempel[_2_]]

My equipment includes a sony shotgun mic -- I can't remember which one
-- a Sony wireless lavalier microphone (I think the Sony UW-PC1), a
corded lavalier microphone, an EV 635a and two Beyer M-58 microphones.
In addition to the Sony video camera I also have an M-Audio MicroTrak.
Thanks in advance for any help.

NHRA uses Audix D4s pretty much exclusively.

Try separating two of em with a little plywood baffle set vertically
between them. It will give you better stereo separation for the low
notes. makes a drive out of shot almost acceptable. I suggest you look
at a good bit of race coverage on TV. Use the same shooting style you
see there. Be sure to track the mics with the camera. Dont use fast
panning, it looks awful. Most shots that track a car do so on a
corner, or when the car is coming towards the camera. Same goes for
bikes. The stuff that works for still shots never works for video
action.

Michael