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#1
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Tabla, tempura and sarod, oh my!
Who's giving out free tips for recording tabla? Things such as: one mic
or two? Condenser or dynamic? How close? I've also got a sarod and maybe a tempura to deal with. Any advice appreciated -- this beggar will not choose. |
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#2
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Tabla, tempura and sarod, oh my!
"Ken Lacouture" wrote in message ...
Who's giving out free tips for recording tabla? Things such as: one mic or two? Condenser or dynamic? How close? Personally, I like one condenser mic facing down between the two drums. I've worked with some Tabla players that will only play with 2 SM57s in front of them (and then very heavily EQ'd so that they are very bright with no low-end). One of these players wouldn't even let me use SM-58's. I've also got a sarod and maybe a tempura to deal with. Any advice appreciated -- this beggar will not choose. If I could remember which instruments these are I could help, but alas, my knowledge of world instruments is slipping. :-( I just remember them by what they look like... --Ben -- Benjamin Maas Fifth Circle Audio Los Angeles, CA http://www.fifthcircle.com |
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#3
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Tabla, tempura and sarod, oh my!
The only really decent tempura I've ever had was at the original
Hatsuhana on E48th St. The batter just filigreed outwards from the fish and vegetables- it's soured me on any lesser preparations. Thing is- when it's frying you have hot oil spattering everywhe not a place for a good mic- you'd practically have to use a hydrophone. Or are you going for the crunch when you bite in? In article ALZMa.30035$fG.15073@sccrnsc01, Benjamin Maas wrote: "Ken Lacouture" wrote in message ... Who's giving out free tips for recording tabla? Things such as: one mic or two? Condenser or dynamic? How close? Personally, I like one condenser mic facing down between the two drums. I've worked with some Tabla players that will only play with 2 SM57s in front of them (and then very heavily EQ'd so that they are very bright with no low-end). One of these players wouldn't even let me use SM-58's. I've also got a sarod and maybe a tempura to deal with. Any advice appreciated -- this beggar will not choose. If I could remember which instruments these are I could help, but alas, my knowledge of world instruments is slipping. :-( I just remember them by what they look like... --Ben -- John Etnier Studio Dual http://www.studiodual.com |
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#4
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Tabla, tempura and sarod, oh my!
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#5
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Tabla, tempura and sarod, oh my!
Ken Lacouture wrote: http://makar-records.com/siteus/frameinstrument.html. Note that this page is a description of the *tambura*, but in the body of the definition it invites us to "listen to Uday Bhawalkar's tempura". Sorry, that link takes you to the opening frameset instead of the specific frame. Try this one instead: http://makar-records.com/siteus/tambura.html |
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#6
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Tabla, tempura and sarod, oh my!
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#8
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Tabla, tempura and sarod, oh my!
On Fri, 04 Jul 2003 08:32:20 +0100, Don Pearce
wrote: Coughio ergo phlegm Coito ergo cum He he he. Vladan www.geocities.com/vla_dan_l www.mp3.com/lesly , www.mp3.com/shook , www.mp3.com/lesly2 www.kunsttick.com/artists/vuskovic/indexdat.htm |
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#9
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Tabla, tempura and sarod, oh my!
In article ALZMa.30035$fG.15073@sccrnsc01, Benjamin Maas
wrote: One of these players wouldn't even let me use SM-58's. Not surprising, 57s usually sound better than 58s and sometimes better than anything else! -- Bob Olhsson Audio Mastery Recording Project Design and Consulting Box 90412, Nashville TN 37209 Tracking, Mixing, Mastering, Audio for Picture 615.385.8051 FAX: 615.385.8196 Mix Evaluation and Quality Control 40 years of making people sound better than they ever imagined! |
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#10
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Tabla, tempura and sarod, oh my!
Scott Dorsey wrote:
The thing about tabla is that performers almost always want it really close-miked and really dry. It sounds a lot more realistic in a small room with ambient miking, Yuck... The smaller the room, the worse an ambient Tabla sound gets... I'm all in favour of close miking Tablas... Daniel |
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#11
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Tabla, tempura and sarod, oh my!
I guess you've never read the instruction manual for a piece of Roland
gear? Or the shop manual for a Japanese car? They know what the words sound like in their language, and they know how to spell phonetically in our language. What they leave for your imagination is to put them together. The classic example being an old Roland manual for one of their electric organs. It described the means for attaching the legs to the instrument. They knew there were multiple word possibilities in English for the verb "to screw" but didn't fully appreciate the nuances involved in some of those alternatives. Scott Fraser |
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#12
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Tabla, tempura and sarod, oh my!
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#13
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Tabla, tempura and sarod, oh my!
"Touch Woody, your Internet pecker"
I think a lot of RAP content can be explained by people "touching Woody, their Internet peckers". Jeez, you'd think Sony would have some native English speakers somewhere on staff. Scott Fraser |
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#14
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Tamboura vrs. Tempura -- The winner is...
....MIKE RIVERS, for correctly intuiting that "tempura" was a transliterated
mispelling of "tambora"! I guess you've never read the instruction manual for a piece of Roland gear? Or the shop manual for a Japanese car? They know what the words sound like in their language, and they know how to spell phonetically in our language. What they leave for your imagination is to put them together. Yes, indeedy, both the acoustic and electronic versions are "tamboras", and the existence of "tempura" in both the producer's mind and on the web is but a coincidence. At least that is the reaction of the ensemble leader when I explained the mystery to him, and showed him the e-mail. Extra credit: he also informs me that in (whichever Indian language we're talking about) "tambora" means "that which completes the tone." And for his correct answer Mike has won... well, nothing actually, except maybe the smug satisfaction of being correct, as well as the privilege of continuing right on with the business of really being Mike Rivers. And my gratitude for his help. |
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#15
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Tabla, tempura and sarod: THE RESULTS
Short story: producer was happy, musicians were happy, engineer was as
close to happy as he ever gets. Long story: For those who are curious, we are working on a very cool project for the National Film Preservation Foundation. In 2004 they will release a 3 DVD set of 50 restored silent films. My job is to work with the music curator recording accompaniment for the films. (Further info at "www.filmpreservation.org", then click "DVD Collections" and "Saving the Silents." And btw, there are also clips from the last DVD set, "Treasures from American Film Archives" which was also recorded by yours truly, toot toot on my own...) Most of this music is solo piano, but every once in a while the music curator throws me a curve. This one was for a film called "The Flute of Krishna", which is a filmed document of a Martha Graham choreography from 1926. So an Indian ensemble was a natch. So as I said: tamboura, tabla, sarod, and flute. But only three musicians -- the ensemble leader wanted to lay down the drone of the tamboura first, and then track over that while he doubled on sarod. But since we do this on location in a recital hall without a proper control room he wasn't sure (before talking to me) if we were going to have overdub capabilities. If not, we would have no option but to use the electronic tamboura while the three played live. (Plus he was taking public transportation, and didn't want to lug a real tamboura along with the sarod if it couldn't be used.) The electronic version of the tambora is a little box about the size of a tube mic power supply. I didn't have a chance to ask how it worked, but you turn it on and it sits there and drones away. You can tune it, and apparently it drifts over time. (Aside: when I asked the ensemble leader if they were done tuning, he said, "We're never done tuning! We're always tuning.") First we laid down the drone with the acoustic tambora. Then he tuned the electric to the track, and they tuned and warmed up against the electric. When we lit the light they played to the electric in cans. I happened to get lucky and had with me some really good armaments that had been "loaned for evaluation" by a pro recording retail outfit that I buy my stuff from. Thus in addition to my regular stuff I had a pair of Schoeps CMC6/MK4 combos and a pair of Neumann KM 184s to play with! Here's what I did with it all: INSTRUMENT DETAILS: Tambora: It looks a bit like a mini-sitar. I put my TLM 103 on it, through a Millennia HV-3D (did everything else through the Millennia too). He said, "go for the buzz from down here by the bridge." Sarod: a roughly guitar form, but with a goatskin stretched over the "drum" which the bridge rests on. The neck appeared to be a tin (?) panel over a hollow chamber. The tone was somewhat reminiscent of a dobro, which I attribute to the metal fretboard. It almost like it's got it's own reverb built into it. I put a KM 184 just a bit above where the neck met the body, at about a 30 degree angle. I had a pleasing twang when the producer grabbed it and aimed it more back towards the drum, giving a rounder, muddier tone. I let him be the boss. Tabla: did it with one mic, the TLM 103, positioned pretty much exclusively over small drum, at about a 45 degree angle down towards the head. I turned the body very slightly towards the large drum, figuring I would get the bassy boom off-axis without it getting out of control. Depending on where I listen, I'm either really pleased, or I feel there's too little large drum. I had a dynamic standing by, but I liked the 103 and nobody complained, so I stuck with it. Flute: my my my, wooden flutes are SOOO much more mellow than our modern nickel. This was the one part I wasn't really happy with. When I got away from the mouth, it laid too far back in the mix. When I got closer, I got a harsh breathiness. We went with the harsh/presence. I'm sure it was helped by the Schoeps -- but maybe that's why it was too mellow when I was further away to begin with? At any rate they were ready to play and it sounded a lot better once I got some wet on it. They played the seven minute film through three times, improvising with suggestions from the music curator. We kept take three, and that was it! I could post a sample from a mix somewhere if folks want to hear it. What's the preferred format for music samples in these parts? Thanks everyone for the tips. Confidence means a lot to a smooth session, so just knowing what other people had done made me feel like I could be free to experiment and then "fall back" on the tried and true if that failed. |
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#16
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Tabla, tempura and sarod: THE RESULTS
Scott Dorsey wrote:
So, will any of these be available on 35mm film for rental at any point soon? My local art house would probably run it if I bugged them. --scott Hmmm... with my limited knowledge of it, I kinda doubt it. Everything we're doing is going telecine to Digital Beta, and my mixes are being flown to the video. I suppose there's no technical reason they couldn't, I just think they don't spend the money on striking film prints with sound. (I know that they DO preserve the visual components of silent films onto fresh 35mm stock, but I believe that's for archival purposes, not release.) I also know they did show some films from the last set at a theater out in LA, but I have a feeling that was video projection. Most of the time when these restored films get shown folks like to take the opportunity to do it with live accompaniment. If you want to follow up, contact Annette Melville at the NFPF. Drop my name and tell her you met me on the 'net. National Film Preservation Foundation 870 Market Street, Suite 1113 San Francisco, CA 94102 phone: 415-392-7292 P.S. -- Okay, I did a little digging on the NFPF website (www.filmpreservation.org) and they refer to making "new master and viewing prints", so I'm probably wrong. But who wants to retype everything above? Get the real scoop from Annette. I need my nap now... |
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#17
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Tamboura vrs. Tempura -- The winner is...
Ken Lacouture wrote:
the existence of "tempura" in both the producer's mind and on the web is but a coincidence. With some of the would-be avant-garde composers these days, though, you never know: there COULD have been a part for "tempura" as someone might have been supposed to slap pieces of food onto a cutting board for percussion of some sort or another. I saw a John Cage piece once where someone was scraping pieces of a cactus onto another cactus for a sound. Especially in New York it's never safe to assume you've mis-heard. g -- jonathan roberts * guitar keyboard vocal * North River Preservation ------------------------------------------------------------------- God save America / Fertile and green / from the right wing / and the left wing / and the birdbrains in-between... |
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#18
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Tamboura vrs. Tempura -- The winner is...
Jonathan Roberts wrote:
With some of the would-be avant-garde composers these days, though, you never know: there COULD have been a part for "tempura" as someone might have been supposed to slap pieces of food onto a cutting board for percussion of some sort or another. Whaddya mean, "COULD have"? http://members.aol.com/debrisbob/HUBRISRV.HTM |
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