I'm endeavouring to "re-master" some old 4 track mix down tapes from
cassette to pc but I'm having issues with quality. There is noticeable
quality loss from hearing the tape raw (via amp through ns-10's) to
hearing it back on pc. I have tried 3 methods of transfer with less
than satisfying results. 1. straight in from tape to pc via rca ins
(sound card is the audiophile 24/96) this is a little hot cause there
is no attenuation before the card but is probably the best of the 3
methods.
2. I have no a/d convertor so I use the dat machine to attenuate the
signal then send out via spdif to pc (probably sounds the worst).
3. Same method as 1. but use a symetrix limiter to attenuate the
signal.

Any ideas? It seems ridiculous that after dumping to pc I am now going
to have to attempt to restore the original sound of the cassette via
plug ins which I doubt will be able to do so.

Anyone see any other options?

Cheers,
Simon

(Simon) wrote

'm endeavouring to "re-master" some old 4 track mix down tapes from
cassette to pc

I've done this with a pro DAW and got a great sounding (better than it was) CD.

I'm having issues with quality. There is noticeable
quality loss from hearing the tape raw (via amp through ns-10's) to
hearing it back on pc.

Define the loss of quality please, what do you not like about it?

1. straight in from tape to pc via rca ins
(sound card is the audiophile 24/96) this is a little hot cause there
is no attenuation before the card but is probably the best of the 3
methods.

What kind of 4-track are we talking about here? Are you putting to hot a
signial into the sound cards A/D?

"Simon" wrote in message
om

I'm endeavouring to "re-master" some old 4 track mix down tapes from
cassette to pc but I'm having issues with quality. There is noticeable
quality loss from hearing the tape raw (via amp through ns-10's) to
hearing it back on pc. I have tried 3 methods of transfer with less
than satisfying results.

1. straight in from tape to pc via rca ins
(sound card is the audiophile 24/96) this is a little hot cause there
is no attenuation before the card but is probably the best of the 3
methods.

Most likely serious problems would be hum or clipping. If you don't have
either, you're stylin' If you have hum, then you probably have a ground
loop, and if you have clipping, then you need to add some passive
attenuation.

If you use a wave editor like Cooledit that has a FFT-based analysis and
graphical display, you should be able to detect either problem pretty
easily.

2. I have no a/d convertor so I use the dat machine to attenuate the
signal then send out via spdif to pc (probably sounds the worst).

SPDIF output of what?

3. Same method as 1. but use a symetrix limiter to attenuate the
signal.

How transparent is the limiter as an attenuator? I favor passive attenuation
for applications like this.

Any ideas? It seems ridiculous that after dumping to pc I am now going
to have to attempt to restore the original sound of the cassette via
plug ins which I doubt will be able to do so.

Unless you have clipping or hum, then you should be able to get an excellent
transfer of the tape. It helps to properly diagnose your problem before
trying to solve it, but the evidence is not visible to the rest of us. Post
an MP3 of a slice of it, and you might get some better help.

Simon wrote:
I'm endeavouring to "re-master" some old 4 track mix down tapes from
cassette to pc but I'm having issues with quality. There is noticeable
quality loss from hearing the tape raw (via amp through ns-10's) to
hearing it back on pc. I have tried 3 methods of transfer with less
than satisfying results. 1. straight in from tape to pc via rca ins
(sound card is the audiophile 24/96) this is a little hot cause there
is no attenuation before the card but is probably the best of the 3
methods.
2. I have no a/d convertor so I use the dat machine to attenuate the
signal then send out via spdif to pc (probably sounds the worst).
3. Same method as 1. but use a symetrix limiter to attenuate the
signal.

Try using an inline pad to attenuate the signal and see if you are
still having the same problem. This way you have nothing in the signal
path other then the cassette deck, the resistive pad, and the sound card.

If so, your sound card is the main issue.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

In article writes:

The sonic difference is a general loss of tonality and a duller sound
over all once transfered to pc. The high frequency's aren't as bright,
the bottom end is less thick and full. It's like it has been shaved
back a layer or 2.

How are you monitoring? Are you comparing the sound of your cassette
deck through your living room stereo system with the 2" speakers
connected to your computer, or are you comparing them through the same
monitoring chain? And are you listening at the same volume level? That
can make a very big difference in the subjective sound quality areas
that you describe.

It's really hard to believe that you can be overloading the input of a
computer sound card with a cassette deck, nor is it likely that the
cassette deck wouldn't be able to drive the load of the computer sound
card.

I'll bet that you have the situation where the recording level into
your computer is pretty low, therefore the playback level is pretty
low, and it just sounds dull because of that. What do the waveforms
look like? If they don't fill up at least half the space between the
lines most of the time, the level is too low. If they fill up all the
space nearly all the time, your level is too high.

Matching levels is one of the things that separates recording
engineers from musicians who have recording equipment. You just need
to figure out what's going on and fix it if it's not right.

In regards to the soundcard, the 24/96 is really annoying since it's
input stage is not calibrated to the outputs of your general 2-track
unit.

This is a problem today. Used to be that every tape recorder had an
input level control and an output level control. But today sound cards
don't usually have input level controls because the manufacturers
don't want to raise the price to include them, and most tape decks
don't have output level controls because they figure you'll be using
them with something that has an input level control

At the moment, you're trapped in a "generation gap" where one hasn't
caught up with the other. This is why a lot of people include a mixer
in their studio setup even though they aren't really mixing anything.
It's a convenient and moderately inexpensive way to get some gain, get
some level controls, have separate outputs for monitoring and
recording, and serve as a microphone preamp and phantom power source
if you don't have anything else.



--
I'm really Mike Rivers - )

In rec.audio.pro, "Scott Rolston" wrote:

Can you get a good sounding mix on the cassette porta studio?

That's another point, if you've got the original 4-track tapes and
the original recorder (or another that will play the tapes), mixing
down again (to the DAT and/or the 2496 card) will sound much better
than the stereo cassette mixes you're trying to transfer now. Anything
that can remove a generation of cassette recording is a no-brainer.

Doesn't the Audiophile 24/96 have the same -10/"consumer"/+4 input
level switching as the Delta 66? Run the M-Audio control panel and
change the inputs to "consumer" or +4, and see if that fixes your
problem. Another pane also has peak-showing meters for the inputs, and
will go into the red for clipping. Make sure it doesn't go that high.
If the level-switching doesn't fix it, make or use inline attentuators
("pads") as Scott (Dorsey) was suggesting.

Mix what
sounds good to you and master on DAT. Bring this mix in spdif to computer.
Hey, you already mentioned
the other options, so thought I'd throw this one in for good measure. : )

Scott

Ok, thanks for all the hints, i'll re-visit the consumer/professional
settings and see if that makes a difference.

I haven't got the original 4 track tapes so I can't remix. I really
think it comes down to the quality of the soundcard, i'm just going to
have to wear it.

To answer a previous question, the spdif output was from the dat. i.e,
analog unbalanced in to dat, attenuate the input and send the output
to the pc via the dats spdif out.

there is no issues with hum or ground loops, i just felt the transfer
process lowered the quality of the original tape.

thanks again,
simon

"Simon" wrote in message
om...
I really
think it comes down to the quality of the soundcard, i'm just going to
have to wear it.

That soundcard far exceeds any cassette tape, so try some of the suggestions
before blaming the soundcard.

Trevor.