I am going to record my self playing a Classical Guitar and have been
shopping for a microphone.

I've been told it must be a condenser mic - (I know nothing about these
things).
When I start looking Mic's seem to have some other sub categories, one of
which is whether or not it should be omnidirectional. And something about
High SPL.

I was looking at Audio Techinica AT3031 and AT3032. That's about my price
range ($170).
It seems like the difference is that 3032 is omnidirectional.
Is that correct?

Can anyone advice me on what I need to keep in mind, in general, for this
mic shopping?

Thanks.

"IS" wrote in message
y.com

I am going to record my self playing a Classical Guitar and have been
shopping for a microphone.

I've been told it must be a condenser mic - (I know nothing about
these things).

Anybody who says things like this should be automatically disqualified on
the grounds of not knowing what they are talking about. It's like all
condenser mics are somehow the same or even share similar sonic
characteristics. They don't.

When I start looking Mic's seem to have some other sub categories,
one of which is whether or not it should be omnidirectional. And
something about High SPL.

It strikes me that a classical guitar and a drum set probably operate over
considerably different loudness ranges. I don't see how the ability to
handle exceptionally high levels relates to your application.

I was looking at Audio Techinica AT3031 and AT3032. That's about my
price range ($170).

It seems like the difference is that 3032 is omnidirectional.
Is that correct?

Audio Technica has a web site at http://www.audio-technica.com/index2.html .
There's no need for you take anybody's advice but theirs about questions
about general properties of A-T microphones.

More specifically, you can find the information you seek at
http://www.audio-technica.com/guide/line/30series.html

Can anyone advice me on what I need to keep in mind, in general, for
this mic shopping?

I'm no mic guru, but it seems to me that if you are going to record a solo
acoustic guitar then you need to look at your sonic preferences and where
you are going to do the recording to make your choice between omni and
unidirectional. If you can record in a quiet room that you can choose based
on how much ambience and room sound you want in the recording, then the omni
could be a good choice. If you are going to record in a busier place or a
reverberant room with echoes that you think are distracting, then the
unidirectional mic might be a better choice.

You didn't say what other equipment you have for recording, but remember
that a quality mic needs a quality microphone preamp, which can end up
costing more than the mic.

In Article , "IS" wrote:
Thank you for the recomendation.
I will take a closer look at this microphone.
I think for the price of it I could actualy get two for about the same as
I'm ready to spend.
The MC012 is about 100 each, and the A-T 3031 is 180 for one.

Thanks.

IS.

And, you get what you pay for, or less usually.

Regards,

Ty Ford



For Ty Ford V/O demos, audio services and equipment reviews,
click on http://www.jagunet.com/~tford

Thank you for the recomendation.
I will take a closer look at this microphone.
I think for the price of it I could actualy get two for about the same as
I'm ready to spend.
The MC012 is about 100 each, and the A-T 3031 is 180 for one.

Thanks.

IS.



In that price range I would be thinking about the Oktava MC012 instead.

"Garthrr" wrote in message
...

I was looking at Audio Techinica AT3031 and AT3032. That's about my
price range ($170).

In that price range I would be thinking about the Oktava MC012 instead.
You can
get the mic with 3 heads, cardioid, hyper and omni, from the Sound Room
for
about that price if I recall correctly.

You can get the mic with one capsule for about that price. With 3 capsules
is
around $300. I like mine a lot.

Hal Laurent
Baltimore, Maryland

From the Sound Room the Oktava is currentlly $193 with cardioid head, $299 with
three heads (cardioid, hypercardioid and omni). Shipping extra. You can get the
same microphone for considerably less from Guitar Center and its online allies,
but I don't recommend it; the ones from the Sound Room have had some quality
control checks performed on them, and have fairly predictable sound and build
quality. The ones from elsewhere have been plugged in, somebody said, "Yep, it
works", and that's it. It might be perfectly fine, or it might be awful. The
Sound Room units are predictable. And it's a very good microphone, for the
price and on an absolute scale as well.

If your room is excellent-sounding, omni will probably do a good job on your
guitar. If it isn't, go cardioid, and prepare to roll the bass down on the
preamp or afterwards. A good starting point is about 10" from the guitar, aimed
at the point where the neck joins the body. Don't aim at the hole.

Peace,
Paul

Thank you for this Paul.

I appreciate the tips. I will look into what you are saying and experiment
with different mic placements when I get a mic.

One more thing: Is it important to have two mics?

Thanks.

IS.


"P Stamler" wrote in message
...
From the Sound Room the Oktava is currentlly $193 with cardioid head, $299
with
three heads (cardioid, hypercardioid and omni). Shipping extra. You can
get the
same microphone for considerably less from Guitar Center and its online
allies,
but I don't recommend it; the ones from the Sound Room have had some
quality
control checks performed on them, and have fairly predictable sound and
build
quality. The ones from elsewhere have been plugged in, somebody said,
"Yep, it
works", and that's it. It might be perfectly fine, or it might be awful.
The
Sound Room units are predictable. And it's a very good microphone, for the
price and on an absolute scale as well.

If your room is excellent-sounding, omni will probably do a good job on
your
guitar. If it isn't, go cardioid, and prepare to roll the bass down on the
preamp or afterwards. A good starting point is about 10" from the guitar,
aimed
at the point where the neck joins the body. Don't aim at the hole.

Peace,
Paul

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message

** snip **

You didn't say what other equipment you have for recording, but remember
that a quality mic needs a quality microphone preamp, which can end up
costing more than the mic.


Arny has made a very good point here. If you don't already have a decent
preamp you really should figure this into your budget too.

Elsewhere in this thread the MC012 is mentioned. My suggestion is that you
get one of these and a decent budget preamp, such as a Symetrix sx302 or a
used sx202 may fit your budget and will be well worth the $. A better
investment than two mics IMHO.
--
John Cafarella
End Of the Road Studio
Melbourne, Australia

Sounds great John.
I will do research on the Symetrix.

Thanks for the advice.

IS.



"John Cafarella" wrote in message
...
"Arny Krueger" wrote in message

** snip **

You didn't say what other equipment you have for recording, but remember
that a quality mic needs a quality microphone preamp, which can end up
costing more than the mic.


Arny has made a very good point here. If you don't already have a decent
preamp you really should figure this into your budget too.

Elsewhere in this thread the MC012 is mentioned. My suggestion is that
you
get one of these and a decent budget preamp, such as a Symetrix sx302 or a
used sx202 may fit your budget and will be well worth the $. A better
investment than two mics IMHO.
--
John Cafarella
End Of the Road Studio
Melbourne, Australia

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
...
"IS" wrote in message
y.com

I am going to record my self playing a Classical Guitar and have been
shopping for a microphone.

Can anyone advice me on what I need to keep in mind, in general, for
this mic shopping?

If you want a surprisingly good omni for an unbelievably bottom price,
there's always the Behringer ECM-8000, street price $39.95.

Good call. Although this application is one where the self noise of the
ECM8000 may be noticeable. Depending on which preamp the guy chooses it may
not be an issue though
--
John Cafarella
End Of the Road Studio
Melbourne, Australia.

"John Cafarella" wrote in message

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
...
"IS" wrote in message
y.com

I am going to record my self playing a Classical Guitar and have
been shopping for a microphone.

Can anyone advice me on what I need to keep in mind, in general, for
this mic shopping?

If you want a surprisingly good omni for an unbelievably bottom
price, there's always the Behringer ECM-8000, street price $39.95.

Good call. Although this application is one where the self noise of
the ECM8000 may be noticeable. Depending on which preamp the guy
chooses it may not be an issue though

Anybody got an measured number for the self-noise of the ECM-8000? I lack a
room that is quiet enough.

I keep trying some ECM-8000s in more and more applications for Omnis (which
don't exactly abound in SR), looking for evidence of clipping with loud
sounds, or mic noise floor poking through when recording quiet sounds. I'm
sure I'll find some, some day...

On the noise floor front, I find that the ECM-8000 has appreciably more
output than the other (inherited) mics I'm using including SM-57s (no
surprise) and A-T Pro 37s. I'm running the related trims on my Mackie SR-32
at full CCW where most other mics are someplace around noon. Thus, it seems
like it might be a pretty fair choice for use with mic pres that might be
marginal in terms of self-noise.

In terms of handling loud sounds, being 20 feet from a large pipe organ or
just over the heads of a chorus of 80 didn't seem to phase it one bit. It
sounds good with them - smoother and richer than what was there before.

Maybe someone has clipped an ECM-8000 with a drum kit?

BTW, my ECM-8000 experiences don't seem to square with the Behr product spec
sheet numbers for sensitivity. Behr seems to be saying that the ECM-8000
has -60 dB sensitivity, while the A-T is speced at -42 and the SM-57 is
specd at -54.5. My experience would put the ECM-8000 some place around
(speaking *very* roughly) -36.

In article , "John Cafarella"
writes:

For an entry level condenser mic I think it can't be beat, esp. at US$40 or
so. For a low/mid level studio it's still a very usable mic.

What a time to have a home studio--decent mics for $40!
Garth~


"I think the fact that music can come up a wire is a miracle."
Ed Cherney

Arny Krueger wrote:

Noise is audible, but on closer inspection it's like no electronic noise
I've ever seen - rolls off way too rapidly at high frequencies, just like
room noise.

That's called 1/f noise and it's the dominant noise from some FET designs.

I bet a nickel if you take the Chinese capsule out of that thing and put
any of the generic Japanese omni electrets in there that you'll get some
drop in noise.

The Audix TR-40 appears to be a small relatively inexpensive omni with
pretty good looking noise specs http://www.audixusa.com/Acrobat/TR40.pdf .

I think that microphone uses the Japanese capsule that the Behringer capsule
is a copy of.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

"Scott Dorsey" wrote in message

Arny Krueger wrote:

Noise is audible, but on closer inspection it's like no electronic
noise I've ever seen - rolls off way too rapidly at high
frequencies, just like room noise.

That's called 1/f noise and it's the dominant noise from some FET
designs.

That was the feedback I was looking for. Thanks!

I bet a nickel if you take the Chinese capsule out of that thing and
put any of the generic Japanese omni electrets in there that you'll
get some drop in noise.

Interesting.

The Audix TR-40 appears to be a small relatively inexpensive omni
with pretty good looking noise specs
http://www.audixusa.com/Acrobat/TR40.pdf .

I think that microphone uses the Japanese capsule that the Behringer
capsule is a copy of.

Interesting.

(Garthrr) wrote in message ...
In article , "Arny Krueger"
writes:

I keep trying some ECM-8000s in more and more applications for Omnis (which
don't exactly abound in SR), looking for evidence of clipping with loud
sounds, or mic noise floor poking through when recording quiet sounds. I'm
sure I'll find some, some day...

I tried them on quiet acoustic guitar and could immediately hear the hiss on
playback. In a mix it wouldnt be noticable but I like knowing I'm getting as
clean a signal as possible so I use a quieter mic, sometimes a Schoeps and
sometimes an Oktava MC 012. I know the Oktava isnt the quietest mic around but
its noise is under my radar.
I have had no trouble with the ECM 8000 overloading but I've never close miked
a drum with it.

Garth~

i put up a spaced pair as drum OHs overloaded the one on the Sn/Hat
side of the kit... to be fair i was micing one of the loudest drummers
i've ever heard and he was purposely playing *his* LOUDEST on this
tune...

i've had the same experience as you with recording very quiet sounds
with them.

at the price i paid for these two mics, i try them on various sources
when i think they have a shot; if they don't work, i'm not
dissappointed in the least. if they do, i figure it's just icing on
the cake!

I've been amazed, that's for certain. A pair of MXL 990s 2 feet away from a
Yamaha acoustic as if it's right on the instrument, and I'm a believer. MXL
V67G for sax, MXL 603Ss for piano and drum overheads. 5 mics, four of which
were roughly $70 each, and an obviously overpriced V67G at $189 while the
price is now half of that. How do they compare? The 603Ss are so nice (or
my mic technique is) that a 30 year seasoned jazz piano player mistook
playback of a piano piece as being live when she walked into the room. The
990s lived and breathed the acoustic steel string, giving back everything I
heard in the room. The V67G lives to record sax. I obviously still use my
Neumanns and my Shures and my EVs and my ATs, but every time I've dared
these inexpensive Chinese mics to do the job, they have.

Now I don't know about $40, but it's just a matter of a few dollars anyway.
If it comes down to the "better" mic between a $69 mic and a $40 mic, well,
I don't even have the words. Used to be that $40 wouldn't buy you a beaten
up SM57 and the best PA system you could buy was a Shure VocalMaster with 4
columns. Things do change and **** still happens. Sometimes the **** is
good ****. At this point it's beyond me.

--


Roger W. Norman
SirMusic Studio

301-585-4681




"Garthrr" wrote in message
...
In article , "John Cafarella"
writes:

For an entry level condenser mic I think it can't be beat, esp. at US$40
or
so. For a low/mid level studio it's still a very usable mic.

What a time to have a home studio--decent mics for $40!
Garth~


"I think the fact that music can come up a wire is a miracle."
Ed Cherney

Hey dude, don't ask us to listen to something in .wav format if it's going
to take a lot of time even on a cable system with 2 Mb/s capacity. I'm
running less than 16 KB/sec on this download. You need a faster server or
connection.

--


Roger W. Norman
SirMusic Studio

301-585-4681




"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
...
"Arny Krueger" wrote in message


Just for grins, here's an all-ECM8000 live recording that you can
download and take a listen to:

http://www.pcavtech.com/test_data/fa...s-mix02-cd-wav

Correction:

http://www.pcavtech.com/test_data/fa...s-mix02-cd.wav

"Roger W. Norman" wrote in message


Hey dude, don't ask us to listen to something in .wav format if it's
going to take a lot of time even on a cable system with 2 Mb/s
capacity.

That's something I didn't have any reason to expect. Regrettably, I can
confirm the acute slowness at this time.

If you check google, this is hardly the first time I've put up large .wav
files for people to download from this site. I don't recall any complaints
with earlier files of similar size or even larger.

But, it seems that everytime one does something, one does roll the dice at
least a little. This time it appears I lost.

I'm running less than 16 KB/sec on this download.

That's about what I'm seeing. Yecch!

You need a faster server or connection.

It would be the server. The ISP is Readyhosting, who I've used for more than
a year without any problems.

Methinks there may be some maintenance issues at the ISP, as it took about a
day after I put the file up before I could get it to even start downloading.

The site also disappeared for a few hours right after I uploaded this file.
I cut a trouble ticket and they claimed NTF. The site did reappear before
the NTF report. But the file wasn't downloadable.

This is vastly different performance from what I've seen from Readyhosting
in the past. Last time I had problems like this I ended up being an
unsecured creditor, if you catch my drift!

My apologies.

If download speed stays this bad through the weekend, I'll make another
trouble ticket on Monday.

I'm on month-to-month with Readyhosting, so if they don't perform, it's not
like I don't have alternatives.

Arny Krueger wrote:


That's something I didn't have any reason to expect. Regrettably, I can
confirm the acute slowness at this time.


I tried to download it and gave up as well. Must be something in the
air. I was playing my tunes on IUMA and streaming, which usually works
fine, was stopping because the downloading couldn't keep up.


-Rob
http://artists.iuma.com/IUMA/Bands/Midiwanna/

Everybody in the US was online today because they were off of work. Happens
every holiday.

--


Roger W. Norman
SirMusic Studio

301-585-4681




"Rob Adelman" wrote in message
...


Arny Krueger wrote:


That's something I didn't have any reason to expect. Regrettably, I can
confirm the acute slowness at this time.


I tried to download it and gave up as well. Must be something in the
air. I was playing my tunes on IUMA and streaming, which usually works
fine, was stopping because the downloading couldn't keep up.


-Rob
http://artists.iuma.com/IUMA/Bands/Midiwanna/

Hey, I wasn't really getting on you Arnie. I was surprised, but I have
enough time to download something at it's own leasure. I thought I was
being a little more transparent than I apparently was. And I forgot my g.
So my apologies for the apparent tone of the post is in order.

--


Roger W. Norman
SirMusic Studio

301-585-4681




"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
...
"Roger W. Norman" wrote in message


Hey dude, don't ask us to listen to something in .wav format if it's
going to take a lot of time even on a cable system with 2 Mb/s
capacity.

That's something I didn't have any reason to expect. Regrettably, I can
confirm the acute slowness at this time.

If you check google, this is hardly the first time I've put up large .wav
files for people to download from this site. I don't recall any complaints
with earlier files of similar size or even larger.

But, it seems that everytime one does something, one does roll the dice at
least a little. This time it appears I lost.

I'm running less than 16 KB/sec on this download.

That's about what I'm seeing. Yecch!

You need a faster server or connection.

It would be the server. The ISP is Readyhosting, who I've used for more
than
a year without any problems.

Methinks there may be some maintenance issues at the ISP, as it took about
a
day after I put the file up before I could get it to even start
downloading.

The site also disappeared for a few hours right after I uploaded this
file.
I cut a trouble ticket and they claimed NTF. The site did reappear before
the NTF report. But the file wasn't downloadable.

This is vastly different performance from what I've seen from Readyhosting
in the past. Last time I had problems like this I ended up being an
unsecured creditor, if you catch my drift!

My apologies.

If download speed stays this bad through the weekend, I'll make another
trouble ticket on Monday.

I'm on month-to-month with Readyhosting, so if they don't perform, it's
not
like I don't have alternatives.

"Roger W. Norman" wrote in message


Hey, I wasn't really getting on you Arnie. I was surprised, but I
have enough time to download something at it's own leasure. I
thought I was being a little more transparent than I apparently was.
And I forgot my g. So my apologies for the apparent tone of the
post is in order.

I didn't take offense - I was just surprised at the problems this little
adventure caused one and all.

As I've done many times in the past, I deleted some big .wav files files to
make some space, uploaded a smaller (40 meg) wav file, and then the whole
site disappeared from the web for about half a day. The new file wasn't
downloadable for about a day, and when it became downloadable, it's slower
than molasses.

I just tried another download and averaged a whopping 28.1 KB/sec. Yecch!
This is about 1/5 of what I've seen in the past. I can't believe that the
internet is THIS busy at 6:30 on Saturday morning. I think my ISP either
fell in a hole or scheduled some maintenance for the weekend, or my new file
ended up in a server in some back room across the alley, and the connection
is random strands of bell wire lying on the pavement. ;-)

Interestingly enough, the regular sound card web pages on the
www.pcavtech.com site seem to pop up almost totally instantly. There are
somewhere between a third of a megabyte and two megabytes of graphics in the
sound card reports, and they seem to be just fine.

I just took a look at the statistics for the site for yesterday. Supposedly
total bandwith for the day was 414 megabytes which is very close to historic
averages. The weekly stats show that there appear to have been some serious
problems at the ISP, as activity was zero for three days last week, and
about 10% of typical for an additional day.

Anyhow, anybody have any comments on the all- Behringer ECM-8000 recording
slooooooowly downloadable from
http://www.pcavtech.com/test_data/fa...s-mix02-cd.wav or did everybody
loose faith and cancel the download?

Who knows. In this day and age a lot more people stay home for holidays
like the 4th, so it's highly plausible that the net is a little more
degraded than normal, but then I just now went to bandwidthplace.com and I'm
getting my normal 2 Mb/s throughput, so it's hard to say. I know that
Starpower promised me that no more than 150 households would be on any
particular leg of their fiberoptic net, and so far that seems to be holding
true. I had one circumstance where my bandwidth went down to 56 Kb/s (modem
speed) and I was actually the one that diagnosed the problem for them (they
had connected a couple of new routers into the one segment). But since then
they've been pretty good. As far as the server slowing down, well, unless
there's something seriously wrong with it the higher likelyhood is that
something changed in their infrastructure and somebody didn't log the change
correctly. It's really hard to diagnose a net by the impact to relative
speed without proper documentation.

--


Roger W. Norman
SirMusic Studio

301-585-4681




"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
...
"Roger W. Norman" wrote in message


Hey, I wasn't really getting on you Arnie. I was surprised, but I
have enough time to download something at it's own leasure. I
thought I was being a little more transparent than I apparently was.
And I forgot my g. So my apologies for the apparent tone of the
post is in order.

I didn't take offense - I was just surprised at the problems this little
adventure caused one and all.

As I've done many times in the past, I deleted some big .wav files files
to
make some space, uploaded a smaller (40 meg) wav file, and then the
whole
site disappeared from the web for about half a day. The new file wasn't
downloadable for about a day, and when it became downloadable, it's slower
than molasses.

I just tried another download and averaged a whopping 28.1 KB/sec. Yecch!
This is about 1/5 of what I've seen in the past. I can't believe that the
internet is THIS busy at 6:30 on Saturday morning. I think my ISP either
fell in a hole or scheduled some maintenance for the weekend, or my new
file
ended up in a server in some back room across the alley, and the
connection
is random strands of bell wire lying on the pavement. ;-)

Interestingly enough, the regular sound card web pages on the
www.pcavtech.com site seem to pop up almost totally instantly. There are
somewhere between a third of a megabyte and two megabytes of graphics in
the
sound card reports, and they seem to be just fine.

I just took a look at the statistics for the site for yesterday.
Supposedly
total bandwith for the day was 414 megabytes which is very close to
historic
averages. The weekly stats show that there appear to have been some
serious
problems at the ISP, as activity was zero for three days last week, and
about 10% of typical for an additional day.

Anyhow, anybody have any comments on the all- Behringer ECM-8000 recording
slooooooowly downloadable from
http://www.pcavtech.com/test_data/fa...s-mix02-cd.wav or did
everybody
loose faith and cancel the download?