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#1
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What Digital I/O would YOU choose for RADAR - PC - 02R
I'm stuck with a little problem I ran into after getting our RADAR in. We're
using it in conjunction with a Yamaha 02R mixer that came loaded with ADAT cards. Luckily we decided to postpone getting a RADAR digital board because I later found out that the 02R ADAT cards only come at 20 bits. I've gone to a company in Germany that made a modified card but their too expensive at ?495 each. The AES/EBU card for RADAR is also a lot more expensive than the other 2 options. My last option I suppose is TDIF. I'm reluctant because not only is there no other Tascam equipment in the studio, but a lot of my other equipment has only ADAT connections. I also want to be able to Interface the studio PC with the RADAR and 02R and am not sure of the options for TDIF interfacing for PC/MAC. What are user experiences with TDIF between RADAR, a digital desk and a DAW (preferably PC as its my weapon of choice :-)) I guess an advantage of ADAT is that the clocking signal is carried so you don't need to run an extra clocking cable. Does anyone use a digital patchbay / format converer that could translate between TDIF to ADAT at 24bits if I was to go with ADAT boards in the RADAR and PC and put a TDIF in the 02R. Sorry for the inconciseness. Wanted to explain the situation thoroughly. regards Martin |
#3
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What Digital I/O would YOU choose for RADAR - PC - 02R
John L Rice ) wrote:
: I may be wrong ( others here please verify / deny ) but I think you don't : have to worry about the bit rate so much. If a 20 bit interface is receiving : a 24 bit signal it just ignores the bottom 4 bits and if a 24 bit interface : is receiving a 20 bit data stream it just accepts it. Truncation of 24 to 20 bits of a single track of a multitrack recording is arguably no big deal. The resolution of the track may not even be 24 bits in any case depending on how it was recorded or processed. I'll admit I am unable to hear the difference between the two. I'm sure others can though. Truncation of a 2 channel master from 24 to 20 might be a bit more problematic, but still not sure I would really sweat it, given that most music levels are in the top bits anyway. (Unless you're dealing with material like Scott Dorsey's RAP 5 cut!). : If that isn't correct or you are not comfortable with it you could pick up a : used MOTU 2408 ( original version ) expander since they can work in stand : alone mode and convert 24 channels of ADATTDIF at a time. You could of [ ... snip ... ] I have 2 2408 (II) units and their TDIF in implemention does not work. Myabe this is not a problem with the Mk I or II versions, but I could not even get the one unit to route TDIF out to TDIF in without unusable distorted signal. MOTU were no help and I know of others with the same problem. I'm also not sure about the transparency of the O2R TDIF cards. When I send a 24 bit signal through the O2R, it appears to be chopping off the *most* significant 8 bits. I have tried all sorts of different DIP switch settings to no avail. However (I have not tested in isolation) this could be a problem with the 2408 to which it is connected. I'm actually still working on trying to get this to work properly. In the meantime I am using them in 16 bit mode or use the ADAT card and suffer the 20 bit truncation. In answer to Martin's original question, a TDIF connection may work, but I'm not entirely convinced about the Yamaha CD8 cards. As for clock signal. I would suggest you always use dedicated wordclock and not rely on the ADAT to supply the clock signal. I have found that in some cases I get clocking problems, maybe due to delay in passing on clock in the ADAT stream. Also beware of the German modded cards, I heard from someone else who bought them that they had to send them back as they were not stable. Here is another option: Thomann is blowing out TC Unity cards with 24 bit ADAT I/O for EUR260 ex VAT (or something like that). You get some TC verbs (or finalizer if you are that way inclined) to boot. Not sure if they have many (any) left, so if this was of interest you would need to act quickly. I have ordered one because I would like a couple of 24 bit channels into my O2R (other than the AES 2 track in). When I get it, I'll report back on how 24 bit clean this card is and how the TDIF vs ADAT issue compares. Martin, given you are in Ireland (Cavan from your nntp posting IP address), I'd be happy for you to borrow one of my TDIF cards if you wanted to try it out. Just drop me an email and let me know. Regards, Vernon. -- Vernon Boyce, Soft Audio, , http://live.softaudio.com Live recording of acoustic music in Dublin, Ireland |
#4
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What Digital I/O would YOU choose for RADAR - PC - 02R
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#5
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What Digital I/O would YOU choose for RADAR - PC - 02R
Vernon Boyce ) wrote:
: Thomann is blowing out TC Unity cards with 24 bit ADAT I/O for EUR260 ex [ ... snip ... ] : : I have ordered one because I would like a couple of 24 bit channels into : my O2R (other than the AES 2 track in). When I get it, I'll report back on : how 24 bit clean this card is and how the TDIF vs ADAT issue compares. If anyone is interested, the TDIF implementation on these cards seems to have clocking problems (at least with my setup), but the 24 bit lightpipe interface works just fine and indeed passes 24 bits cleanly (bar summing issues in the O2R itself, that is). Regards, Vernon. -- Vernon Boyce, Soft Audio, , http://live.softaudio.com Live recording of acoustic music in Dublin, Ireland |
#6
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What Digital I/O would YOU choose for RADAR - PC - 02R
"Mike Rivers" wrote in message news:znr1057023353k@trad... In article writes: I'm stuck with a little problem I ran into after getting our RADAR in. We're using it in conjunction with a Yamaha 02R mixer that came loaded with ADAT cards. Luckily we decided to postpone getting a RADAR digital board because I later found out that the 02R ADAT cards only come at 20 bits. Plan ahead, I always say. I guess that's one of the reasons they came up with a new model 02R. The AES/EBU card for RADAR is also a lot more expensive than the other 2 options. My last option I suppose is TDIF. What are user experiences with TDIF between RADAR, a digital desk and a DAW (preferably PC as its my weapon of choice :-)) There's nothing wrong with TDIF as long as you can find it, and as long as it's implemented correctly. That's a bit of a problem because TASCAM's documentation has been inconsistent and there have been some funky TDIFs around. I'd trust iZ to do it right, and Yamaha has probably been doing it long enough to get it right, but I don't know what you'll find in a computer interface that you can trust. (not that I know there are some that you shouldn't trust, I just suspect it) One problem you might run into with TDIF if you're going to be moving it from one destination to another is with patching. A TDIF patchbay is kind of a rare bird, but there are plenty of Lightpipe patchbays that work pretty well. A rare bird? I didn't know it existed. Where might one find this bird? Steve Holt INNER MUSIC Music Creation & Production http://www.inner-music.com http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/steveholt |
#7
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What Digital I/O would YOU choose for RADAR - PC - 02R
Is the Mark of the Unicorn model 2408mk3 what you're looking for?
Steve Holt wrote: "Mike Rivers" wrote in message news:znr1057023353k@trad... In article writes: I'm stuck with a little problem I ran into after getting our RADAR in. We're using it in conjunction with a Yamaha 02R mixer that came loaded with ADAT cards. Luckily we decided to postpone getting a RADAR digital board because I later found out that the 02R ADAT cards only come at 20 bits. Plan ahead, I always say. I guess that's one of the reasons they came up with a new model 02R. The AES/EBU card for RADAR is also a lot more expensive than the other 2 options. My last option I suppose is TDIF. What are user experiences with TDIF between RADAR, a digital desk and a DAW (preferably PC as its my weapon of choice :-)) There's nothing wrong with TDIF as long as you can find it, and as long as it's implemented correctly. That's a bit of a problem because TASCAM's documentation has been inconsistent and there have been some funky TDIFs around. I'd trust iZ to do it right, and Yamaha has probably been doing it long enough to get it right, but I don't know what you'll find in a computer interface that you can trust. (not that I know there are some that you shouldn't trust, I just suspect it) One problem you might run into with TDIF if you're going to be moving it from one destination to another is with patching. A TDIF patchbay is kind of a rare bird, but there are plenty of Lightpipe patchbays that work pretty well. A rare bird? I didn't know it existed. Where might one find this bird? Steve Holt INNER MUSIC Music Creation & Production http://www.inner-music.com http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/steveholt |
#8
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What Digital I/O would YOU choose for RADAR - PC - 02R
"Mike Rivers" wrote in message news:znr1060081546k@trad... In article writes: A TDIF patchbay is kind of a rare bird A rare bird? I didn't know it existed. Where might one find this bird? I'm sure that Z-Systems can fix you up. TASCAM used to have an AES/EBU-TDIF breakout box, but it's been out of the catalog for a few years now. There are a couple of tricks when patching multi-channel interfaces. The first one is that everyone wants to be able to re-route channels within a group (Input 1 Channel 3 to Output 4 Channel 8) and in order to do that, you need to take the multi-channel input apart, patch the pieces, and re-assemble it at the output. This shouldn't be too difficult with TDIF since it's actually a multi-wire interface, but you have to re-clock everything to assure that you maintain phase coherence of the channels. It's not too hard to do with today's input-reclocking chips, but TDIF isn't popular enough to get the price down to the point where you'd see the benefit of an inexpensive chip on a commercial product. Have you considered a rack of DB-25 connectors and some short patch cables? Actually, I spoke with Z-Systems some time ago and they couldn't help me. Basically I wanted to be able to patch my Rosetta into the inputs of my 3 DA-88s without crawling around in the back of Spagettivlle (not to be confused with Margueritaville...). I'm really not a technical fellow. e.g. If I need to hang up a picture on the wall, I call somebody up. I'd just like to buy a TDIF patch bay. What's the story on the DB-25 connectors? -- Steve Holt INNER MUSIC Music Creation & Production http://www.inner-music.com http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/steveholt |
#9
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What Digital I/O would YOU choose for RADAR - PC - 02R
In article ,
"Steve Holt" wrote: "Steve O'Neill" wrote in message ... Is the Mark of the Unicorn model 2408mk3 what you're looking for? Sure, but that's a bit more than a patch bay, and the price would bear that out. If it only costs money it is cheap. Wiring up even a passive DB25 based patchbay will cost more once you add in the labour and custom metalwork charges. With digital audio though you normally require some form of master clock routing and selection as well, so it is not as simple as it looks. That is before you start considering future sample rates and interfacing different SR devices. I build custom AES/EBU and TDIF routing systems, but if you can't afford the MotU you can't afford me. |
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