Justin Smith wrote:

I just have a quick question: Generally speaking, to avoid leakage of
other sounds into a particular mic (say when close micing toms),
should one try to move the mic as far--distance wise--away from the
unwanted sound, or try to get as far_ off-axis_ as possible,
regardless of distance?

I'm forced to agree with David Butler, and maybe even to say that it's
worse than what he says: Even the very best cardioids are not much help.
Cardioid just isn't a strongly directional pattern to begin with, and no
actual cardioid is anywhere near consistent at all frequencies. They all
become less directional at low frequencies and they all get goofy in
various ways at high frequencies, too--peaks and dips at various angles
of sound incidence are par for the course.

So with drum sets, where there's sound across such a wide range of
frequencies, you can't filter very much out by aiming a cardioid away
from the unwanted source. Certainly not a high-hat. You can see this
if you look carefully at polar response diagrams that have been plotted
at various frequencies. The better microphone makers offer such graphs;
they're not necessarily easy to read, but it's well worth the effort.

And I'm also forced to agree with Mr. Butler that well-made supercardioids
will have less of this problem than any cardioid. Their polar response is
more nearly constant across the audio frequency range, as a rule, and their
nulls have notably greater cancellation (in dB) than the null of a cardioid.

Techmeister wrote in message ...


And if rejection IS the top issue, a HYPERCARDIOID or SUPERECARDIOID is best, but
the maximum rejection is at 135 degrees not 180. Beyer M201, Sennheiser MD441, EV
RE15 come to mind.



I hate to tip my hat to David, on principal...it's so much more
entertaining when EVERYONE on r.a.p. hates his guts...but I must
confess it was Mr. Butler who turned me on to RE15's as tom mics
20-some years ago, for precisely that reason (better off-axis
rejection).

OMG: the End of Days must be upon us!

David Satz and I agree ???

;-)

LOL!

Thanks David. I actually have great luck with SOME straight cordioids, like the KM84
or C451 IF there is enough room to position them carefully.

Techmeister aka db

In article ,
(David Satz) wrote:

Justin Smith wrote:

I just have a quick question: Generally speaking, to avoid leakage of
other sounds into a particular mic (say when close micing toms),
should one try to move the mic as far--distance wise--away from the
unwanted sound, or try to get as far_ off-axis_ as possible,
regardless of distance?

I'm forced to agree with David Butler, and maybe even to say that it's
worse than what he says: Even the very best cardioids are not much help.
Cardioid just isn't a strongly directional pattern to begin with, and no
actual cardioid is anywhere near consistent at all frequencies. They all
become less directional at low frequencies and they all get goofy in
various ways at high frequencies, too--peaks and dips at various angles
of sound incidence are par for the course.

So with drum sets, where there's sound across such a wide range of
frequencies, you can't filter very much out by aiming a cardioid away
from the unwanted source. Certainly not a high-hat. You can see this
if you look carefully at polar response diagrams that have been plotted
at various frequencies. The better microphone makers offer such graphs;
they're not necessarily easy to read, but it's well worth the effort.

And I'm also forced to agree with Mr. Butler that well-made supercardioids
will have less of this problem than any cardioid. Their polar response is
more nearly constant across the audio frequency range, as a rule, and their
nulls have notably greater cancellation (in dB) than the null of a cardioid.

--
David 'db' Butler, Consultant
Acoustics by db
"...all the rest are just brokers"
now on the web at http://www.db-engineering.com
Boston, Mass
Phone 617 969-0585 Fax 617 964-1590

The only pattern with a *plane* of null is a figure-8, and there are
some fine fig-8's in this world. THey are useful, I'm told, in nulling
out unwanted instruments.

James Boyk

In Article , James Boyk wrote:
The only pattern with a *plane* of null is a figure-8, and there are
some fine fig-8's in this world. THey are useful, I'm told, in nulling
out unwanted instruments.

James Boyk



Very. I used a figure of eight in a horizontal orientation (nulls to ceiling
and floor) for vocals on my RAP cut. The acoustic guitar was in the lower null.

Regards,

Ty Ford

For Ty Ford V/O demos, audio services and equipment reviews,
click on http://www.jagunet.com/~tford