[Gord]

Has anyone seen these or had any experience using one? Wouldn't there
be some audible comb filtering when using one?

Here's a link: http://www.seelectronics.com/rf.html

Thanks,
Gord

[Geoff]

Gord wrote:
Has anyone seen these or had any experience using one? Wouldn't there
be some audible comb filtering when using one?

No. That's what they are there to reduce.

However I find the concept a little odd . Firstly a good cardiod should
minimise problems from the rear, and most of the ****e one wants to avoid
comes from the front - should be paired with a bigger version behind the
artist !

geoff

[Scott Dorsey]

Gord wrote:
Has anyone seen these or had any experience using one? Wouldn't there
be some audible comb filtering when using one?

Here's a link: http://www.seelectronics.com/rf.html

No, the idea is that it absorbs high frequencies striking it, to reduce
audible comb filtering. It does some good there, but frankly if you are in
an acoustic environment where it makes an appreciable improvement you
have lots of other problems that this gadget doesn't solve.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[Ethan Winer]

Gord,

Disclaimer - my company makes a competing device.

Has anyone seen these or had any experience using one? Wouldn't there be
some audible comb filtering when using one?

Yes, it colors the sound. It's also not very effective at either blocking
sound or reducing room ambience. I'm not even sure what SE Electronics was
aiming for with this thing because it is NOT absorbent. It's a focusing
reflective concave shape, and that's just what it sounds like it too.

If you'd like to see actual measurements showing the effectiveness (sound
blocking) and coloration, it's on my company's web site:

www.realtraps.com/p_pvb.htm

There's also a pair of short slide-show videos that let you compare the
sound quality and ambience reduction on our Videos page:

www.realtraps.com/videos.htm

These videos are listed about halfway down the page.

--Ethan

[Greg Boboski]

It looks like it would be good for holding a heavier more absorbant
cloth but don't get too close

regards Greg



"Ethan Winer" ethanw at ethanwiner dot com wrote in message
...
Gord,

Disclaimer - my company makes a competing device.

Has anyone seen these or had any experience using one? Wouldn't there be
some audible comb filtering when using one?

Yes, it colors the sound. It's also not very effective at either blocking
sound or reducing room ambience. I'm not even sure what SE Electronics was
aiming for with this thing because it is NOT absorbent. It's a focusing
reflective concave shape, and that's just what it sounds like it too.

If you'd like to see actual measurements showing the effectiveness (sound
blocking) and coloration, it's on my company's web site:

www.realtraps.com/p_pvb.htm

There's also a pair of short slide-show videos that let you compare the
sound quality and ambience reduction on our Videos page:

www.realtraps.com/videos.htm

These videos are listed about halfway down the page.

--Ethan

[Marty]

Don't forget to mention that Realtraps would prefer that you purchase
their competing product rather than the SE product. Therefore their
tests are suspect and not impartial.

The Reflexion Filter DOES block sound transmission in both directions
and absorbs sound from the front. It does help dry up an ambiant room,
and is useful for vocals and improving isolation for instrument micing.
While it does reflect some sound, we are actually working on an add-on
accessory that will stop all reflections.

Marty Atias
ATS Communications
http://ATSComms.com

Ethan Winer wrote:
Gord,

Disclaimer - my company makes a competing device.

Has anyone seen these or had any experience using one? Wouldn't there
be some audible comb filtering when using one?

Yes, it colors the sound. It's also not very effective at either
blocking sound or reducing room ambience. I'm not even sure what SE
Electronics was aiming for with this thing because it is NOT absorbent.
It's a focusing reflective concave shape, and that's just what it sounds
like it too.

If you'd like to see actual measurements showing the effectiveness
(sound blocking) and coloration, it's on my company's web site:

www.realtraps.com/p_pvb.htm

There's also a pair of short slide-show videos that let you compare the
sound quality and ambience reduction on our Videos page:

www.realtraps.com/videos.htm

These videos are listed about halfway down the page.

--Ethan

[hank alrich]

Marty wrote:

Don't forget to mention that Realtraps would prefer that you purchase
their competing product rather than the SE product. Therefore their
tests are suspect and not impartial.

That kind of talk among those who have extensive experience with Mr.
Winer's integrity will leave you looking like some foppish twit.

If you have specific criticisms of Mr. Winer's test, state them.
Otherwise blow that smoke up your own butt.

The Reflexion Filter DOES block sound transmission in both directions
and absorbs sound from the front. It does help dry up an ambiant room,
and is useful for vocals and improving isolation for instrument micing.
While it does reflect some sound, we are actually working on an add-on
accessory that will stop all reflections.

Right. You have something cheaper than a RealTrap. Good luck with that.

Marty Atias
ATS Communications
http://ATSComms.com

Ethan Winer wrote:
Gord,

Disclaimer - my company makes a competing device.

Has anyone seen these or had any experience using one? Wouldn't there
be some audible comb filtering when using one?

Yes, it colors the sound. It's also not very effective at either
blocking sound or reducing room ambience. I'm not even sure what SE
Electronics was aiming for with this thing because it is NOT absorbent.
It's a focusing reflective concave shape, and that's just what it sounds
like it too.

If you'd like to see actual measurements showing the effectiveness
(sound blocking) and coloration, it's on my company's web site:

www.realtraps.com/p_pvb.htm

There's also a pair of short slide-show videos that let you compare the
sound quality and ambience reduction on our Videos page:

www.realtraps.com/videos.htm

These videos are listed about halfway down the page.

--Ethan


--
ha
Iraq is Arabic for Vietnam

[Mike Rivers]

On Aug 7, 1:33 am, Marty wrote:
Don't forget to mention that Realtraps would prefer that you purchase
their competing product rather than the SE product. Therefore their
tests are suspect and not impartial.

So if someone from SE posted here, would you not consider buying their
product either? I didn't know that it was good business practice to
avoid getting to know your customers and let your customers get to
know you.

[[email protected]]

On Aug 7, 1:33 am, Marty wrote:
Don't forget to mention that Realtraps would prefer that you purchase
their competing product rather than the SE product. Therefore their
tests are suspect and not impartial.

jeez, it sure is nice to meet you
and other slanderous dung you want to impart in your outing ??


The Reflexion Filter DOES block sound transmission in both directions
and absorbs sound from the front. It does help dry up an ambiant room,
and is useful for vocals and improving isolation for instrument micing.
While it does reflect some sound, we are actually working on an add-on
accessory that will stop all reflections.

and this add on will increase the cost ???
and how are we to "trust" your specs as you have a vested interest???

[Scott Dorsey]

The Reflexion Filter DOES block sound transmission in both directions
and absorbs sound from the front. It does help dry up an ambiant room,
and is useful for vocals and improving isolation for instrument micing.
While it does reflect some sound, we are actually working on an add-on
accessory that will stop all reflections.

The problem with "stopping all reflections" is that the lower you want
the low frequency corner to be, the wider and deeper you need the filter
to be. Until, buy the time it becomes reasonably absorptive at 30 Hz,
you might as well just use a bass trap.

The -3dB corner for the Reflexion filter is probably a few hundred hertz,
which is enough to be very useful for a wide-pattern mike in a panelled
room for vocals, but is not in any way a real substitute for fixing the
room or mike. But if you want it to go any lower, you will have to deal
with the physics.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[hank alrich]

Scott Dorsey wrote:

The Reflexion Filter DOES block sound transmission in both directions
and absorbs sound from the front. It does help dry up an ambiant room,
and is useful for vocals and improving isolation for instrument micing.
While it does reflect some sound, we are actually working on an add-on
accessory that will stop all reflections.

The problem with "stopping all reflections" is that the lower you want
the low frequency corner to be, the wider and deeper you need the filter
to be. Until, buy the time it becomes reasonably absorptive at 30 Hz,
you might as well just use a bass trap.

The -3dB corner for the Reflexion filter is probably a few hundred hertz,
which is enough to be very useful for a wide-pattern mike in a panelled
room for vocals, but is not in any way a real substitute for fixing the
room or mike. But if you want it to go any lower, you will have to deal
with the physics.
--scott

Dood, this is Usenet; physics is for the real world.


--
ha
Iraq is Arabic for Vietnam

[Don Pearce]

On Tue, 7 Aug 2007 06:52:23 -0700, (hank alrich)
wrote:

Scott Dorsey wrote:

The Reflexion Filter DOES block sound transmission in both directions
and absorbs sound from the front. It does help dry up an ambiant room,
and is useful for vocals and improving isolation for instrument micing.
While it does reflect some sound, we are actually working on an add-on
accessory that will stop all reflections.

The problem with "stopping all reflections" is that the lower you want
the low frequency corner to be, the wider and deeper you need the filter
to be. Until, buy the time it becomes reasonably absorptive at 30 Hz,
you might as well just use a bass trap.

The -3dB corner for the Reflexion filter is probably a few hundred hertz,
which is enough to be very useful for a wide-pattern mike in a panelled
room for vocals, but is not in any way a real substitute for fixing the
room or mike. But if you want it to go any lower, you will have to deal
with the physics.
--scott

Dood, this is Usenet; physics is for the real world.

Dood, this is Usenet; you are NOT supposed to use semicolons properly.
Oops, I did it too. Sorry.

d

--
Pearce Consulting
http://www.pearce.uk.com

[Don Pearce]

On 7 Aug 2007 08:52:34 -0400, (Scott Dorsey) wrote:

The Reflexion Filter DOES block sound transmission in both directions
and absorbs sound from the front. It does help dry up an ambiant room,
and is useful for vocals and improving isolation for instrument micing.
While it does reflect some sound, we are actually working on an add-on
accessory that will stop all reflections.

The problem with "stopping all reflections" is that the lower you want
the low frequency corner to be, the wider and deeper you need the filter
to be. Until, buy the time it becomes reasonably absorptive at 30 Hz,
you might as well just use a bass trap.

The -3dB corner for the Reflexion filter is probably a few hundred hertz,
which is enough to be very useful for a wide-pattern mike in a panelled
room for vocals, but is not in any way a real substitute for fixing the
room or mike. But if you want it to go any lower, you will have to deal
with the physics.
--scott

There isn't really a need to spend money. Jut pop into the bedroom and
grab a duvet. Hang it over a clothes drier and you have a really top
class absorber. And being thick, it works at quite low frequencies
too. It is easy to hang it in a U shape round the back of a mic this
way. Just make sure it is nice and rumpled so it doesn't present a
flat surface to the mic.

d

--
Pearce Consulting
http://www.pearce.uk.com

[hank alrich]

Don Pearce wrote:

On Tue, 7 Aug 2007 06:52:23 -0700, (hank alrich)
wrote:

Scott Dorsey wrote:

The Reflexion Filter DOES block sound transmission in both directions
and absorbs sound from the front. It does help dry up an ambiant room,
and is useful for vocals and improving isolation for instrument micing.
While it does reflect some sound, we are actually working on an add-on
accessory that will stop all reflections.

The problem with "stopping all reflections" is that the lower you want
the low frequency corner to be, the wider and deeper you need the filter
to be. Until, buy the time it becomes reasonably absorptive at 30 Hz,
you might as well just use a bass trap.

The -3dB corner for the Reflexion filter is probably a few hundred hertz,
which is enough to be very useful for a wide-pattern mike in a panelled
room for vocals, but is not in any way a real substitute for fixing the
room or mike. But if you want it to go any lower, you will have to deal
with the physics.
--scott

Dood, this is Usenet; physics is for the real world.

Dood, this is Usenet; you are NOT supposed to use semicolons properly.
Oops, I did it too. Sorry.

d

LOL!

Thanks, and good morning, Don.

--
ha
Iraq is Arabic for Vietnam

[Mike Rivers]

On Aug 7, 10:06 am, (Don Pearce) wrote:

There isn't really a need to spend money. Jut pop into the bedroom and
grab a duvet. Hang it over a clothes drier and you have a really top
class absorber.

Maybe where you are, every bedroom has a duvet and a clothes dryer. My
clothes dryer is in the basement, attached to a gas line and
electrical outlet, and I'm not sure what a duvet is. I think it's
something that covers a bed. If so, mine's put away for the Summer.

[Don Pearce]

On Tue, 07 Aug 2007 08:08:46 -0700, Mike Rivers
wrote:

On Aug 7, 10:06 am, (Don Pearce) wrote:

There isn't really a need to spend money. Jut pop into the bedroom and
grab a duvet. Hang it over a clothes drier and you have a really top
class absorber.

Maybe where you are, every bedroom has a duvet and a clothes dryer. My
clothes dryer is in the basement, attached to a gas line and
electrical outlet, and I'm not sure what a duvet is. I think it's
something that covers a bed. If so, mine's put away for the Summer.

You don't know what a duvet is? You haven't lived. You're right,
though. It covers a bed. Mine measures about 8 feet square, 10 inches
thick and is filled with Siberian Goose down.

My clothes dryer is in the laundry room, but it can be moved when
needed.

d

--
Pearce Consulting
http://www.pearce.uk.com

[Ethan Winer]

Hank,

That kind of talk among those who have extensive experience with Mr.
Winer's integrity will leave you looking like some foppish twit.

If you have specific criticisms of Mr. Winer's test, state them.
Otherwise blow that smoke up your own butt.

LOL - indeed, and I was careful to be as clear as possible with my very
first sentence:

"Disclaimer - my company makes a competing device."

As far as I know, my blocking and coloration tests were performed properly.
I even posted photos showing exactly what was placed where. But if Marty or
anyone else feels my tests were not valid, I'd love to know why so I can do
it again better.

--Ethan

[[email protected]]

On Aug 6, 9:33 pm, Marty wrote:
Don't forget to mention that Realtraps would prefer that you purchase
their competing product rather than the SE product. Therefore their
tests are suspect and not impartial.

Marty,

My day job is acoustic research. I have the equipment and
facilities to verify performance claims. Ethan's product works as
advertised. No more, no less. It makes for a handy gobo for small amps
too, when not used as an ad hoc means of making acoustic improvements
(not a cure-all) for voice overs in challenging spaces.

bobs

Bob Smith
BS Studios
we organize chaos
http://www.bsstudios.com

[[email protected]]

On Aug 7, 11:08 am, Mike Rivers wrote:


Maybe where you are, every bedroom has a duvet and a clothes dryer. My
clothes dryer is in the basement, attached to a gas line and
electrical outlet, and I'm not sure what a duvet is. I think it's
something that covers a bed. If so, mine's put away for the Summer.

clothes dryer http://tinyurl.com/26u2c

[Mike Rivers]

On Aug 7, 12:26 pm, wrote:

clothes dryer http://tinyurl.com/26u2c

I guess those, covered by a 10" thick goose down duvet would work OK
for a seated player or vocalist, but I don't think they're tall enough
to be of much use with a standing vocalist. I have the functional
equivalent of that type of clothes dryer, but it's in my back yard and
one end is attached to the house. But it's high enough for a standing
performer. I don't think it'll do much for the noise of the
helicopters that buzz the house a couple of times a day, though.

[Don Pearce]

On Tue, 07 Aug 2007 10:05:42 -0700, Mike Rivers
wrote:

On Aug 7, 12:26 pm, wrote:

clothes dryer http://tinyurl.com/26u2c

I guess those, covered by a 10" thick goose down duvet would work OK
for a seated player or vocalist, but I don't think they're tall enough
to be of much use with a standing vocalist. I have the functional
equivalent of that type of clothes dryer, but it's in my back yard and
one end is attached to the house. But it's high enough for a standing
performer. I don't think it'll do much for the noise of the
helicopters that buzz the house a couple of times a day, though.

My drier is a different design, it is more like a folding room screen
in three hinged parts, but with bars instead of flat panels. It stands
about six feet high, three feet wide when folded up, and obviously
anything up to 9 feet wide unfolded (although if it is unfolded that
far it will fall over).

For persistent helicopters, a .303 or a shotgun of low enough is the
best silencer.

d

--
Pearce Consulting
http://www.pearce.uk.com

[Scott Dorsey]

Ethan Winer ethanw at ethanwiner dot com wrote:

LOL - indeed, and I was careful to be as clear as possible with my very
first sentence:

"Disclaimer - my company makes a competing device."

Actually, it doesn't.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[Ty Ford]

On Tue, 7 Aug 2007 10:01:38 -0400, Don Pearce wrote
(in article ):

On Tue, 7 Aug 2007 06:52:23 -0700, (hank alrich)
wrote:

Scott Dorsey wrote:

The Reflexion Filter DOES block sound transmission in both directions
and absorbs sound from the front. It does help dry up an ambiant room,
and is useful for vocals and improving isolation for instrument micing.
While it does reflect some sound, we are actually working on an add-on
accessory that will stop all reflections.

The problem with "stopping all reflections" is that the lower you want
the low frequency corner to be, the wider and deeper you need the filter
to be. Until, buy the time it becomes reasonably absorptive at 30 Hz,
you might as well just use a bass trap.

The -3dB corner for the Reflexion filter is probably a few hundred hertz,
which is enough to be very useful for a wide-pattern mike in a panelled
room for vocals, but is not in any way a real substitute for fixing the
room or mike. But if you want it to go any lower, you will have to deal
with the physics.
--scott

Dood, this is Usenet; physics is for the real world.

Dood, this is Usenet; you are NOT supposed to use semicolons properly.
Oops, I did it too. Sorry.

d



Shocking!

--Audio Equipment Reviews Audio Production Services
Acting and Voiceover Demos http://www.tyford.com
Guitar player?:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4RZJ9MptZmU

[thepaulthomas]

On Aug 6, 10:33 pm, Marty wrote:
Don't forget to mention that Realtraps would prefer that you purchase
their competing product rather than the SE product. Therefore their
tests are suspect and not impartial.

Mr. Winer has been a regular contributor to this forum for quite some
time. While I do not read every single thread on rec.audio.pro every
day I have never seen any evidence to suggest that he is dishonest or
should be viewed with suspicion. To paraphrase Carl Sagan,
extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. Since you've
claimed that Mr. Winer's test methods and/or objectivity are suspect
you need to provide the evidence to back up that claim. The fact that
he sells acoustic treatment products isn't good enough.

[Geoff]

Mike Rivers wrote:
On Aug 7, 10:06 am, (Don Pearce) wrote:

There isn't really a need to spend money. Jut pop into the bedroom
and grab a duvet. Hang it over a clothes drier and you have a really
top class absorber.

Maybe where you are, every bedroom has a duvet and a clothes dryer. My
clothes dryer is in the basement, attached to a gas line and
electrical outlet, and I'm not sure what a duvet is. I think it's
something that covers a bed. If so, mine's put away for the Summer.

My clothes dryer is outside, 93,000,000 miles away, and would singe the
duvet if it was hung over it.

geoff

[Geoff]

Don Pearce wrote:

There isn't really a need to spend money. Jut pop into the bedroom and
grab a duvet. Hang it over a clothes drier and you have a really top
class absorber. And being thick, it works at quite low frequencies
too. It is easy to hang it in a U shape round the back of a mic this
way. Just make sure it is nice and rumpled so it doesn't present a
flat surface to the mic.

My studio does have a bedroom, duvet, or dryer. The is a couch, but it is
not really suitable for 'casting'.

geoff

[hank alrich]

Scott Dorsey wrote:

Ethan Winer ethanw at ethanwiner dot com wrote:

LOL - indeed, and I was careful to be as clear as possible with my very
first sentence:

"Disclaimer - my company makes a competing device."

Actually, it doesn't.
--scott

Well, Ethan does offer those RT's on stands, so you could put one or two
right near the mic(s). Hell, stick a boundary mic on a stand-mounted RT
and we'd have el macho reflection filter.

--
ha
Iraq is Arabic for Vietnam

[hank alrich]

wrote:

On Aug 6, 9:33 pm, Marty wrote:
Don't forget to mention that Realtraps would prefer that you purchase
their competing product rather than the SE product. Therefore their
tests are suspect and not impartial.

Marty,

My day job is acoustic research. I have the equipment and
facilities to verify performance claims. Ethan's product works as
advertised. No more, no less. It makes for a handy gobo for small amps
too, when not used as an ad hoc means of making acoustic improvements
(not a cure-all) for voice overs in challenging spaces.

bobs

Bob Smith
BS Studios
we organize chaos
http://www.bsstudios.com

I guess I'd prefer to buy them there Real Traps things, regardless of
what Ethan thinks about 'em. Now, if they just came with decent tie-dye
covers.

--
ha
Iraq is Arabic for Vietnam

[Scott Dorsey]

hank alrich wrote:

I guess I'd prefer to buy them there Real Traps things, regardless of
what Ethan thinks about 'em. Now, if they just came with decent tie-dye
covers.

I think that Alpha Acoustics has a line of fibreglass banners with a
loose-weave cloth cover that is removable for cleaning. You could get
some of those in white and tie-dye them. They might need to be fireproofed
again before use, though. Don't forget the lava lamps and the day-glo Hendrix
poster!
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."