langvid wrote:
Steven Sullivan wrote in message

But if I can flip a record I can flip a DVD. But you don't
consider flipping a DVD to be a hassle?

About as much a hassle as switching layers or files on SACDs and DVD-As.

Come on. You can do that from your comfy listen chair. Try doing
flipping a disc from your chair. Although we both agree that it
should not be necessary because the DVD-A side should sound as least as good
as the CD side

(Although, I would think that if DVD-A begins to consistently sound as
good
as its potential than perhaps you would never have to flip).

DVD-As *already* sound as good as SACD, or as bad, for exactly the same
reasons: good or bad mastering.

Let me clarify, I know of no inherent reasons why the body of current DVD-A
offerings can't sound as good as the current inventory of SACDs. It's just
that the purveyors of DVD-A, those that sell and promote the product, are
very chagrined and apologetic that there are so few good sounding DVD-As
relative to the universe of DVD-A discs. At the last two CES shows as well
as the Stereophile Hi-Fi
in San Francisco DVD-A purveyors, while upbeat about the product, were
embarrassed that they had so little good sounding software to sell. Is it
because of mediocre mastering? That's what I think. At the outset SACD was
fortunate to attract a lot of labels, boutique labels as some refer to them,
that made great sounding CDs, and now make even better sounding SACDs.
Unfortunately, to the detriment of quality sound DVD-A has been largely
supported by the big players such as Warner and Universal, that have always
had a spotty reputation for high quality products. Their DVD-As have often
sounded as bad as their CDs. And as more of the big players have jumped to
SACD, the quality there has also suffered.

So, if you put that SACD in upside down, what happens?

*That's* the level of 'selection' you'll have to do with a flipper.

Wait a minute. In 22 years I have *never* placed a CD or SACD upside down.
Have you!? I have, on occasions, put in the wrong side of an LP or played
the wrong one of a double CD set. This would could be a significant
distraction, say for example, if you had to turn the double sided DVD-A over
while you were driving your car.

The double-sided disc may be, in fact, the answer, but make no mistake,
the
industry made numerous attempts to keep from having to going back to the
"LP flip". The double sided disc was engineered and is being *test
marketed*
because it could not be avoided and because there are very real doubts
which
speak to its awkwardness. The article made it clear that the flip disc
was definitely a second choice solution. If they were able to come up with
a
single sided solution they would have and "test marketing" would not
be necessary. They would just market it.

But as far as 'viability' goes, flipping a
disc has already proven *viable*. Ask anyone who watched DVDs.

Or ask anyone that listens to vinyl. Nevertheless, the undisputed truth is
that the industry turned to double sided discs as a solution of last resort.
They recognized that the dual layer SACD model was a much more elegant, user
friendly solution, but for technical reasons they had to go to a solution
that they really didn't want. That happens sometimes.

And no, the disc has *not* been proven viable. Certainly not for its
intended application. Just because the double sided model is adequate for
the small percent of the DVDs (my kids say we have 63 DVDs in our household,
3 or 4 are double sided) does not mean that it will work well enough as the
standard for *all* DVD-As. Why are they *testing* it? They want to find out
if its viable!!!

But after playing the devil's advocate, I must agree with you that a double
sided solution is not all *that* bad. If the software is what I like I would
certainly buy the product. But it remains to be seen if the public at large
feel the same way about it as we do. And I suppose if the DVD-A side looks c
learly different for the CD side, such as a different color then the double
sided solution may not be such a big deal to consumers.

One last thought. Sony has jumped into this double sided test just as much
as anybody else. It could be, as the article suggested, a hedge with respect
to the success of SACD. But it could also be that if the tests do prove
successful that you could be seeing something similar with SACD, such as
video on one side. (Although, current SACD specs provide for a video "layer"
on the same side as the music. But a double sided solution dramatically
increases the capacity.

We'll see.

Robert C. Lang