[Tom Cumming]

I am looking to purchase a portable flash-based recording device.

My partner is doing research in phonetics and makes a lot of spoken voice
recordings for analysis. She is currently using a borrowed Sony DAT
walkman which is fine apart from the time taken to transfer the recording
to her Macbook in real time. I am a classical musician, and though my
usage would be secondary to hers, it would be useful to record myself
practising etc, and would prefer something with balanced inputs and
phantom power, in case I want to do any more "serious" recording in the
future. The device must be battery powered and cost around the £300 mark.

A cursory bit of web browsing mainly brings up these 3:
M-Audio Microtrack 24/96
Zoom H4
Edirol R09

The Edirol does not have balanced inputs (as far as I can see), and the
M-Audio's battery is not user-replaceable, which are minor drawbacks for
me. I thought I had decided on the Zoom H4, until I discovered this:

http://www.sonicstudios.com/zoomh4rv.htm

which seems to suggest it is rather flawed, but I cannot find any another
reviews that mention this, and admittedly a lot of this web page goes way
over my head!

My questions are therefo
- Should I be concerned by the above web page?
- Are there any other suitable devices I have overlooked?
- Anything else I should know?

Thanks in advice for any help you can give.

[anahata]

Tom Cumming wrote:
I am looking to purchase a portable flash-based recording device.

prefer something with balanced inputs and
phantom power, in case I want to do any more "serious" recording in the
future. The device must be battery powered and cost around the £300 mark.

The Edirol does not have balanced inputs

Correct. Sensibly placed, it will do a pretty good job with the internal
mics for recording yourself practising. Balanced or unbalanced, the mic
inputs of most portable flash recorders aren't much use for serious
recording: no phantom power so you can't use condenser mics, and poor
noise performance so dynamics won't usually perform well in stereo X-Y
recording, unless it's something loud.

For recording in the future with better mics, you could still use the
Edirol with a mic preamp, which could be something like a tiny Behringer
mixer with 2 mic inputs. I'd use a DAV BG-1 preamp feeding the line
inputs of an Edirol R-09, because that's what I happen to have, but you
could use a tiny Behringer mixer with 2 mic inputs, much cheaper and
with possible advantage that you could use it afterwards to re-balance
your stereo channels if necessary.

As for other recorders:
There's a Zoom H2 just appearing on the market now. No XLRs but much
cheaper - worth a look.

For a flash recorder with built in P48 powered XLRs you're looking at
Marantz and similar at around twice your price.

--
Anahata
-+- http://www.treewind.co.uk
Home: 01638 720444 Mob: 07976 263827

[Craig Ruggels]

I use the microtrack, have had it for about a year. still hold a good
charge. is execellent for recording conversations. with the mics that come
with it, I also ues my josephson c42mp's with it for some field recording.
since i am a drummer I also bought the -10 pad, which works well for
recording students in my studio. if you get one buy a 4gig cf card and you
will have plenty of storage.

I also fiqure that when and if the battery goes dead something cheaper and
better will be on the market, plus you can always plug it into the wall ac.

Good luck

--
www dot craigruggels dot com
"Tom Cumming" wrote in message
...
I am looking to purchase a portable flash-based recording device.

My partner is doing research in phonetics and makes a lot of spoken voice
recordings for analysis. She is currently using a borrowed Sony DAT
walkman which is fine apart from the time taken to transfer the recording
to her Macbook in real time. I am a classical musician, and though my
usage would be secondary to hers, it would be useful to record myself
practising etc, and would prefer something with balanced inputs and
phantom power, in case I want to do any more "serious" recording in the
future. The device must be battery powered and cost around the £300 mark.

A cursory bit of web browsing mainly brings up these 3:
M-Audio Microtrack 24/96
Zoom H4
Edirol R09

The Edirol does not have balanced inputs (as far as I can see), and the
M-Audio's battery is not user-replaceable, which are minor drawbacks for
me. I thought I had decided on the Zoom H4, until I discovered this:

http://www.sonicstudios.com/zoomh4rv.htm

which seems to suggest it is rather flawed, but I cannot find any another
reviews that mention this, and admittedly a lot of this web page goes way
over my head!

My questions are therefo
- Should I be concerned by the above web page?
- Are there any other suitable devices I have overlooked?
- Anything else I should know?

Thanks in advice for any help you can give.

[[email protected]]

On May 13, 8:56 am, anahata wrote:
Tom Cumming wrote:
I am looking to purchase a portable flash-based recording device.

prefer something with balanced inputs and
phantom power, in case I want to do any more "serious" recording in the
future. The device must be battery powered and cost around the £300 mark.
The Edirol does not have balanced inputs

Correct. Sensibly placed, it will do a pretty good job with the internal
mics for recording yourself practising. Balanced or unbalanced, the mic
inputs of most portable flash recorders aren't much use for serious
recording: no phantom power so you can't use condenser mics, and poor
noise performance so dynamics won't usually perform well in stereo X-Y
recording, unless it's something loud.

For recording in the future with better mics, you could still use the
Edirol with a mic preamp, which could be something like a tiny Behringer
mixer with 2 mic inputs. I'd use a DAV BG-1 preamp feeding the line
inputs of an Edirol R-09, because that's what I happen to have, but you
could use a tiny Behringer mixer with 2 mic inputs, much cheaper and
with possible advantage that you could use it afterwards to re-balance
your stereo channels if necessary.

As for other recorders:
There's a Zoom H2 just appearing on the market now. No XLRs but much
cheaper - worth a look.

For a flash recorder with built in P48 powered XLRs you're looking at
Marantz and similar at around twice your price.

--
Anahata
-+-http://www.treewind.co.uk
Home: 01638 720444 Mob: 07976 263827

I just bought a Zoom H4. It is unreal what you get for your $270 or
so. The internal stereo mics sound pretty decent. I haven't used it
with real mics yet but it does have phantom power, effects, even a
chromatic tuner. I'll probably never use half of the things this
puppy will do. I'm using it to do a choir recording of the national
anthem to submit to the Pgh Pirates this week. It's worlds better
sounding than the boom box most the church chiors will be using. I
haven't seen the H2 yet. The only thing that concerns me is the
plastic housing. I'd have gladly paid another $20 for a metal box.

Tom

Tom

[Willie K. Yee, MD[_3_]]

On 13 May 2007 14:13:22 -0700, wrote:

I'd have gladly paid another $20 for a metal box.


You have to understand this feature. When some @$$#0+3 knocks it off
the table, the case shatters, you can then hit him up for a new one.
If it had a metal case, it could be broken internally with no visible
damage, and you would not as easily be able to collect.

[[email protected]]

"Tom Cumming" wrote:

I am looking to purchase a portable flash-based recording device.

snip

I have a dozen or so of solo piano recordings done with an Edirol R09.
Different pianos in different rooms, the pianos are in tune but not
great instruments. Music includes Bach, Chopin, Fats Waller, etc.
Some of the rooms were a bit noisy; anyway, maybe they'll give you
some information to help with your decision.

gerard [http://homepage.eircom.net/~gerfmcc/audio.html]

[Arny Krueger]

"Tom Cumming" wrote in message

I am looking to purchase a portable flash-based recording
device.

My partner is doing research in phonetics and makes a lot
of spoken voice recordings for analysis. She is currently
using a borrowed Sony DAT walkman which is fine apart
from the time taken to transfer the recording to her
Macbook in real time. I am a classical musician, and
though my usage would be secondary to hers, it would be
useful to record myself practising etc, and would prefer
something with balanced inputs and phantom power, in case
I want to do any more "serious" recording in the future.
The device must be battery powered and cost around the
£300 mark.

A cursory bit of web browsing mainly brings up these 3:
M-Audio Microtrack 24/96

My Microtrack 24/96 is giving me great service. I've used it for day after
day (up to 13 hours per day) of safety recordings at band and choral
festivals, where the primary recorder is a CD burner. I've used it both as a
MP3 (192 kbps) and wav file recorder. I've used it as both a line level and
mic-level (using the MT internal phantom power) device.

I've had excellent sucess uploading long files (I break the files up about
every 2 1/2 hours) to my PC for recovery purposes.

Only caveat is that you make sure that the MT firmware is up to level. It's
a tiny download and takes only a few minutes.

The unit I bought from GC must have sat on the shelf lots, since it was more
than a year backlevel. There were some good updates missing as delivered.
The most critical update made the MT much more accepting of those cheap CF
cards that Micro Center is selling for under $10 a GB.

[Scott Fraser]

For a flash recorder with built in P48 powered XLRs you're looking at
Marantz and similar at around twice your price.

Or the new Fostex FR2 LE at around $500. Mic pres are said by some
nature recordists to be fairly quiet. No digital i/o, though.

Scott Fraser

[Arny Krueger]

"Soundhaspriority" wrote in message


"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
. ..
[snip]

My Microtrack 24/96 is giving me great service. I've
used it for day after day (up to 13 hours per day) of
safety recordings at band and choral festivals, where
the primary recorder is a CD burner. I've used it both
as a MP3 (192 kbps) and wav file recorder. I've used it
as both a line level and mic-level (using the MT
internal phantom power) device.

Have you investigated whether internal battery
replacement is something you could do yourself? Ie., will
M-Audio sell you the battery, and are any special
procedures required?

I don't care that much about battery operation, since I record where AC
power is already being used by the rest of the setup. Note that I'm
recording 9-13 hours a day and the primary recorder is a standard Tascam CD
burner.

Why couldn't they have designed for use of a cellphone
battery? It would be so much more attractive.

Attaching an external battery is a trivial proposition. The Microtrak
receives external 5v power via a standard USB cable.

[Tom Cumming]

On Sun, 13 May 2007 14:13:22 -0700, chezestake wrote:

I just bought a Zoom H4. It is unreal what you get for your $270 or so.
The internal stereo mics sound pretty decent. I haven't used it with
real mics yet but it does have phantom power, effects, even a chromatic
tuner. I'll probably never use half of the things this puppy will do.
I'm using it to do a choir recording of the national anthem to submit to
the Pgh Pirates this week. It's worlds better sounding than the boom
box most the church chiors will be using. I haven't seen the H2 yet.
The only thing that concerns me is the plastic housing. I'd have gladly
paid another $20 for a metal box.

Thanks for that. I presume you have not experienced the
clipping/distortion problems in the article I posted the link to in my
first post (http://www.sonicstudios.com/zoomh4rv.htm)

quote
Most owners of H4 experience severe overload clipping distortions while
trying using this deck, even though VU levels seem well below clipping.
Testing found the cause to be the REC level adjustment that ONLY APPEARS
to have 0-127 steps for setting record level, or so it seems until my
tests. In reality, out of the 127 steps, ONLY #100 - #127 range works to
control actual REC level; a somewhat limited 10 dB range of adjustment.
Setting REC level below #100 will lower VU level indication, but 1st
mic/line INPUT STAGE IS THEN CLIP DISTORTING!!! This was tested true in
ALL sensitivity switch settings, but tested only the dual unbalanced TS
inputs.. Findings should hold true for dual XLR inputs as well.
/quote

He says "most owners", yet I can find nothing else online mentioning this
problem, so I'm wondering if whoever wrote this just happened to have a
faulty one.

[Scott Dorsey]

Tom Cumming wrote:

Thanks for that. I presume you have not experienced the
clipping/distortion problems in the article I posted the link to in my
first post (http://www.sonicstudios.com/zoomh4rv.htm)

quote
Most owners of H4 experience severe overload clipping distortions while
trying using this deck, even though VU levels seem well below clipping.
Testing found the cause to be the REC level adjustment that ONLY APPEARS
to have 0-127 steps for setting record level, or so it seems until my
tests. In reality, out of the 127 steps, ONLY #100 - #127 range works to
control actual REC level; a somewhat limited 10 dB range of adjustment.
Setting REC level below #100 will lower VU level indication, but 1st
mic/line INPUT STAGE IS THEN CLIP DISTORTING!!! This was tested true in
ALL sensitivity switch settings, but tested only the dual unbalanced TS
inputs.. Findings should hold true for dual XLR inputs as well.
/quote

He says "most owners", yet I can find nothing else online mentioning this
problem, so I'm wondering if whoever wrote this just happened to have a
faulty one.

This doesn't sound like a "problem" so much as normal behaviour for any
piece of equipment. If the volume control is anything but a direct attenuator
on the front end, then it's possible to clip the electronics between the
input and the volume control. That's why Shure sells adjustable pads.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[Tom Cumming]

On Tue, 15 May 2007 14:30:29 -0400, Scott Dorsey wrote:


This doesn't sound like a "problem" so much as normal behaviour for any
piece of equipment. If the volume control is anything but a direct attenuator
on the front end, then it's possible to clip the electronics between the
input and the volume control. That's why Shure sells adjustable pads.
--scott

Ah I see, I understand now (really showing my lack of knowledge here) That
has reassured me a lot. Thanks.