[Doug Sterlina]

Im new to the hi-fi scene and im interested in getting what I guess
you could call a "mid-fi" system for my 9x13' room and I want some
expert opinion. I want to spend about $1000 or less on a turntable, 2
speakers, and amp
For speakers I was thinking about Polk Monitor 50's or something
similar and an Audio-Technica AT-PL120 turntable. Will floorstanding
speakers be too much for such a small room? I want to avoid having a
powered sub since that will cost extra and be overkill in a townhouse.

When it comes to the amps, im lost. As far as power amplifiers vs
integrated amplifiers how do you know what you will need since
different devices output at different levels. The turntable has a
built in pre-amp so would that be able to drive a power amp directly
and would that be the best option? I read that most consumer all in
one tuners are integrated amps with a radio tuner, but then im
confused as to why some would have a phono input if all the inputs go
through the built in pre-amp anyways.

I also want to be able to hook my computer to the system if possible
through RCA cables.

[dizzy]

Doug Sterlina wrote:

Im new to the hi-fi scene and im interested in getting what I guess
you could call a "mid-fi" system for my 9x13' room and I want some
expert opinion. I want to spend about $1000 or less on a turntable, 2
speakers, and amp

A turntable? Do you know what year this is?

[Jenn]

In article ,
dizzy wrote:

Doug Sterlina wrote:

Im new to the hi-fi scene and im interested in getting what I guess
you could call a "mid-fi" system for my 9x13' room and I want some
expert opinion. I want to spend about $1000 or less on a turntable, 2
speakers, and amp

A turntable? Do you know what year this is?

Perhaps he wants to listen to some records...

[George M. Middius]

Jenn said:

I want to spend about $1000 or less on a turntable, 2
speakers, and amp

A turntable? Do you know what year this is?

Perhaps he wants to listen to some records...

dippy sticks his fingers in his ears and shrieks, "LALALALALALA I can't
hear you! LALALALALALA!"



--

Krooscience: The antidote to education, experience, and excellence.

[dizzy]

George M. Middius cmndr _ george @ comcast . net wrote:

Jenn said:

I want to spend about $1000 or less on a turntable, 2
speakers, and amp

A turntable? Do you know what year this is?

Perhaps he wants to listen to some records...

dippy sticks his fingers in his ears and shrieks, "LALALALALALA I can't
hear you! LALALALALALA!"

No fingers required. The clicks, pops, and surface-noise suffice.
8)

[dizzy]

dizzy wrote:

George M. Middius cmndr _ george @ comcast . net wrote:

Jenn said:

I want to spend about $1000 or less on a turntable, 2
speakers, and amp

A turntable? Do you know what year this is?

Perhaps he wants to listen to some records...

dippy sticks his fingers in his ears and shrieks, "LALALALALALA I can't
hear you! LALALALALALA!"

No fingers required. The clicks, pops, and surface-noise suffice.
8)

But I do have a finger for you, George. 8)

[Doug Sterlina]

Well that didnt go so well. If record players are so oldschool they
wouldnt cost 100k for audiophile quality units.

[George M. Middius]

dippy said:

dippy sticks his fingers in his ears and shrieks, "LALALALALALA I can't
hear you! LALALALALALA!"

No fingers required. The clicks, pops, and surface-noise suffice.
8)
But I do have a finger for you, George. 8)

The Krooborg has declared that replying to your own posts is a source of
shame. Can you live with that, Thing?





--

Krooscience: The antidote to education, experience, and excellence.

[MiNe 109]

In article . com,
"Doug Sterlina" wrote:

Well that didnt go so well. If record players are so oldschool they
wouldnt cost 100k for audiophile quality units.

If you want the cheapest way out, look for budget receivers. Onkyo still
makes two channel. In your small room, you don't need a huge amp.

Stephen

[dizzy]

Doug Sterlina wrote:

Well that didnt go so well. If record players are so oldschool they
wouldnt cost 100k for audiophile quality units.

I don't think that you have to spend $100k for an "audiophile quality"
turntable. However, given your $1,000 system budget, and desire for
"mid fi" sound-quality, a CD player is definitely the way to go.
Doing the vinyl thing properly is no doubt more expensive.

[dizzy]

Doug Sterlina wrote:

Im new to the hi-fi scene and im interested in getting what I guess
you could call a "mid-fi" system for my 9x13' room and I want some
expert opinion. I want to spend about $1000 or less on a turntable, 2
speakers, and amp
For speakers I was thinking about Polk Monitor 50's or something
similar and an Audio-Technica AT-PL120 turntable. Will floorstanding
speakers be too much for such a small room? I want to avoid having a
powered sub since that will cost extra and be overkill in a townhouse.

If you don't need to play loudly, you don't need large speakers.
However, floor-standers have their "stands" built-in, which is nice.

When it comes to the amps, im lost. As far as power amplifiers vs
integrated amplifiers how do you know what you will need since
different devices output at different levels.

Everything, except most turntables, output at about the same level.

The turntable has a
built in pre-amp so would that be able to drive a power amp directly
and would that be the best option?

Probably doesn't matter, for your purposes.

I read that most consumer all in
one tuners are integrated amps with a radio tuner, but then im
confused as to why some would have a phono input if all the inputs go
through the built in pre-amp anyways.

Most turntables do not have line-level outputs. They require a
special phono input.

I also want to be able to hook my computer to the system if possible
through RCA cables.

Piece of cake.

If I were you I'd put more money toward your speakers. You can find
decent-quality old receivers for next to nothing. After buying your
turntable and a cheap CD or DVD player (that I assume you'll want),
you can still have over $500 for a sweet pair of speakers, like these:

http://cgi.ebay.com/Like-New-Pair-of...QQcmdZViewItem

[George M. Middius]

dippy dances 'round the Fire of Evil.

However, given your $1,000 system budget, and desire for
"mid fi" sound-quality, a CD player is definitely the way to go.
Doing the vinyl thing properly is no doubt more expensive.

You go, dippy! Save him from himself.



--

Krooscience: The antidote to education, experience, and excellence.

[Bill Riel]

In article ,
says...

If you want the cheapest way out, look for budget receivers. Onkyo still
makes two channel. In your small room, you don't need a huge amp.

I'd agree with that - and some of those receivers will have a phono
section. With the OP's budget I'd probably look for a reasonably priced
receiver, get one of the Pro-Ject entry level turntables and the best
bookshelf speakers the budget allows.

Budget speakers to check out could include Paradigm Atoms or Titans,
Boston Acoustics CR67, maybe some of the ID offerings like Axiom or
Ascend.

--
Bill

[Harry Lavo]

"Doug Sterlina" wrote in message
ups.com...
Well that didnt go so well. If record players are so oldschool they
wouldnt cost 100k for audiophile quality units.

Don't let some of these Bozo's get to you . You asked a legitimate question
that deserves some thoughtful answers.

Here's what I would consider doing:

* Receiver: Onkyo or Sherwood stereo,100wpc. Tuner built in. $180. Built
in phono headamp. Both brands above average sound.
* CD/SACD Player: Sony ce595 ($150) or Sony XA2000ES ($280, ebay new). Good
CD players and excellent SACD players with bypass mode so you can hear pure
DSD in SACD. They are changers, which adds versatility.
* Speakers: Used pair Thiel 1.5's ($400 on Audiogon or eBay) Speakers are a
safe buy if you can pick up, and these are excellent.
* Cables: Radio shack Gold interconnects ($20); Radio Shack MegaWire 14gauge
speaker wire ($25).

Total so far: $775-905.

* TT for now: Used Dual 701,704,721,1219,1229,601). Excellent TT's,
sonically equal to today's $1000 jobs. But purchase only where can inspect
and pick up first. Check arm bearings for "wobble", insist on running it and
listening for any kind of mechanical noise or problem (there should be
none). Price $75-150.
* Audio-Technica AT-440 cartridge ($100, a screaming bargain. Avoid Shure.)

Total Now: $950-1025.

You'll have a good sounding, quality upper mid-fi/lower hi-end system, with
room to grow or stay put, as you see fit. And you'll be able to listen to
FM, CD, SACD, and Vinyl as and whenever you wish.

Later as affordable: consider TT upgrade to VPI Soutmaster ($1500). Then
upgrade amp, CD/SACD player, and speakers in that order.

[Doug Sterlina]

Thanks for the awesome reply. I'll keep my eye on craigslist and ebay
for the components you mentioned and try to get out to some audio
stores to listen.

[Arny Krueger]

"Doug Sterlina" wrote in message
oups.com

Im new to the hi-fi scene and im interested in getting
what I guess you could call a "mid-fi" system for my
9x13' room and I want some expert opinion. I want to
spend about $1000 or less on a turntable, 2 speakers, and
amp

So far so good.

For speakers I was thinking about Polk Monitor 50's or
something similar and an Audio-Technica AT-PL120
turntable.

OK.

Will floorstanding speakers be too much for
such a small room?

Depends on what else you have in the room. ;-)

I suspect you are making a mistake here - thinking that all floorstanding
speakers are so similar that if any of them are wrong for the room, then all
of them are. There is actually quite a bit of variation in the low end
performance of floor standing speakers.

I want to avoid having a powered sub
since that will cost extra and be overkill in a
townhouse.

Not necessarily. If you have a sub, your main speakers will probably be
smaller, cost less, and be easier to place, all other things being equal.

When it comes to the amps, I'm lost.

The easiest, cheapest approach is to get a receiver. You probably want to
keep it simple - just get a 2-channel receiver.

As far as power
amplifiers vs integrated amplifiers how do you know what
you will need since different devices output at different
levels.

Power amps are matched to the speakers by a separate device called a preamp.
A preamp plus a power amp is functionally about the same as a receiver or
integrated amplifier.

Since you're on a budget, you probably want to go with a receiver.

The turntable has a built in pre-amp so would
that be able to drive a power amp directly and would that
be the best option?

Forget the power amp on your budget.

I read that most consumer all in one
tuners are integrated amps with a radio tuner, but then
im confused as to why some would have a phono input if
all the inputs go through the built in pre-amp anyways.

Some receivers have phono inputs, but a lot of modern ones don't. However
the phono input on the receiver is moot if you are using a turntable with
its own phono preamp. The built-in phono preamp on a turntable will produce
a signal that is like a CD player, or a tape recorder, or a tuner, or a TV
set. It will work with any receiver.

I also want to be able to hook my computer to the system if possible
through RCA cables.

That works, but sometimes it is hard to connect a computer to a regular
stereo system without causing a ground loops and hum. When this happens,
the easiest solution is to get an audio isolator, such as the one that Radio
Shack sells for under $20.

[[email protected]]

I wouldn't rule out a sub. The purpose of a subwoofer is NOT to
thump out loud rap tunes and shake the neighbors as you drive by...
it's to fill in the lowest frequencies in the spectrum, and enable your
other speakers to concentrate on what they do best. Set up properly,
the sub would actually put out very little sound - but that little
bit can greatly enrich the quality and realism, and help your
remaining two speakers sound better (because the crossover unit
filters the extreme lows so that your speakers don't have to "try"
to reproduce them, with potential distortion).

The catch is, a barely decent sub would surely add $250 to your budget.
However, I think with the advice on used components, you should be
able to stay within $800 for the rest. The receiver is a piece of
cake - I saw a Calibre (low end but sounds quite decent) in a shop
yesterday for $25. That's what I have in my bedroom. Turntable will
take some searching, but yes the old Duals or Technics will do fine
(might want to invest in a new stylus depending on the condition of
the old one). That leaves you room to try a variety of speakers,
or do some research and buy a used pair. In a very small space you
could also consider a used pair of nearfield monitors (but then you'd
really need the subwoofer).

Doug Sterlina wrote:
: Im new to the hi-fi scene and im interested in getting what I guess
: you could call a "mid-fi" system for my 9x13' room and I want some
: expert opinion. I want to spend about $1000 or less on a turntable, 2
: speakers, and amp
: For speakers I was thinking about Polk Monitor 50's or something
: similar and an Audio-Technica AT-PL120 turntable. Will floorstanding
: speakers be too much for such a small room? I want to avoid having a
: powered sub since that will cost extra and be overkill in a townhouse.

: When it comes to the amps, im lost. As far as power amplifiers vs
: integrated amplifiers how do you know what you will need since
: different devices output at different levels. The turntable has a
: built in pre-amp so would that be able to drive a power amp directly
: and would that be the best option? I read that most consumer all in
: one tuners are integrated amps with a radio tuner, but then im
: confused as to why some would have a phono input if all the inputs go
: through the built in pre-amp anyways.

: I also want to be able to hook my computer to the system if possible
: through RCA cables.

[dizzy]

wrote:

I wouldn't rule out a sub. The purpose of a subwoofer is NOT to
thump out loud rap tunes and shake the neighbors as you drive by...

Well, it CAN be... 8)

it's to fill in the lowest frequencies in the spectrum, and enable your
other speakers to concentrate on what they do best. Set up properly,
the sub would actually put out very little sound - but that little
bit can greatly enrich the quality and realism,

But that little bit can also, when living in a townhouse, greatly
annoy the neighbors. The stronger low frequencies will make more
things shake.

[Harry Lavo]

"dizzy" wrote in message
news
wrote:

I wouldn't rule out a sub. The purpose of a subwoofer is NOT to
thump out loud rap tunes and shake the neighbors as you drive by...

Well, it CAN be... 8)

it's to fill in the lowest frequencies in the spectrum, and enable your
other speakers to concentrate on what they do best. Set up properly,
the sub would actually put out very little sound - but that little
bit can greatly enrich the quality and realism,

But that little bit can also, when living in a townhouse, greatly
annoy the neighbors. The stronger low frequencies will make more
things shake.

Thump, thump, thump whenever a movie with explosions is on. I lived next to
one for awhile.

[Doug Sterlina]

Okay, here is my plan for now
Super T-amp
TCC TC-750 Phono Preamp
Klipsch RB-61
Pro-Ject Debut III Turntable

Later
Sub
Better amp
Better cartridge

[Bill Riel]

In article .com,
says...
Okay, here is my plan for now
Super T-amp
TCC TC-750 Phono Preamp
Klipsch RB-61
Pro-Ject Debut III Turntable

Later
Sub
Better amp
Better cartridge

Looks good Doug!

For the money, the Pro-Ject tables are great. I've got an Expression II
which I'm *very* happy with.

Your choice in speakers wouldn't be mine, but speakers are perhaps the
most subjective part of the audio equation. If you like them that's all
that matters.

Cheers,

Bill

[Jenn]

In article ,
Bill Riel wrote:

In article .com,
says...
Okay, here is my plan for now
Super T-amp
TCC TC-750 Phono Preamp
Klipsch RB-61
Pro-Ject Debut III Turntable

Later
Sub
Better amp
Better cartridge

Looks good Doug!

For the money, the Pro-Ject tables are great. I've got an Expression II
which I'm *very* happy with.

Your choice in speakers wouldn't be mine, but speakers are perhaps the
most subjective part of the audio equation. If you like them that's all
that matters.

Cheers,

Bill

Ditto what Bill said, Doug. Enjoy!

[Arny Krueger]

"Doug Sterlina" wrote in message
oups.com

Okay, here is my plan for now

Super T-amp

Stongly un-recommended. 4.5 watts at 0.1% THD is rediculously poor
performance, even with efficient speakers. I'm mysteified by the popularity
of Tripath-based power amps, because they just don't perform well. The
nicest thing that can be said about them is that they sound remarkably good
given all of their audible flaws.

Frankly, you'd be far better off buying a Sherwood 100 wpc amp from a
superstore.

TCC TC-750 Phono Preamp

OK


Klipsch RB-61

Looks to me like its specs claim to violate the laws of physics. It's too
small to have the efficiency and bass extension that is claimed.

Pro-Ject Debut III Turntable w Ortofon cartrdige

OK.


Later

Sub

Yeah!

Better amp

yeah!

Better cartridge

Maybe. Is the supplied Ortofon that bad?

[Arny Krueger]

"dizzy" wrote in message

Doug Sterlina wrote:

Well that didnt go so well. If record players are so
oldschool they wouldnt cost 100k for audiophile quality
units.

I don't think that you have to spend $100k for an
"audiophile quality" turntable.

Agreed. Furthermore, the price/performance of a $100k or even $20K turntable
is miserable. They are essentially "bragging rights" products. That's all
fine and dandy in its place, but that place is not a $1K total system.

However, given your
$1,000 system budget, and desire for "mid fi"
sound-quality, a CD player is definitely the way to go.

Doing the vinyl thing properly is no doubt more
expensive.

Agreed. The good news is that a good CD player is not a big expense. I
can't believe that there are many music lovers in the 21st century that can
completely avoid digital media.

[George M. Middius]

The Krooborg begins his a new chapter of his "life" story.

rediculously poor

That complements your griinish envy nicely, Arnii.




--

Krooscience: The antidote to education, experience, and excellence.

[George M. Middius]

Arnii, RAO is ostensibly an audio forum. Take your bull**** religious
hangups and peddle them to your fellow half-wits.

The good news

We don't care about your JEE-zus freaking "good news", you brain-dead,
faith-mongering quarter-wit.

Goggle™ tells us that you've used your "good news" topping on your
smegma-coated JEE-zus pill 150 times. How many fellow retards have you
recruited to come worship with you? Give it up, you ****-encrusted feeb.




--

Krooscience: The antidote to education, experience, and excellence.

[dizzy]

Doug Sterlina wrote:

Okay, here is my plan for now
Super T-amp

Seriously? Why? That is NOT enough power.

TCC TC-750 Phono Preamp
Klipsch RB-61

Have you actually listened to these? I've never liked Klipsch
speakers - too midrangey/bright.

If you're going to put them in a "hard" room, God help your ears.

Pro-Ject Debut III Turntable

Later
Sub
Better amp

If you know you'd like a better amp, why waste money on the temporary
solution? Get an old, heavy, Japanese receiver for now. It will
likely kick the snot out of that Super Wierdo T-amp while costing a
lot less. Plus you'll actually have bass and treble controls.

Better cartridge

The (low) quality of your speakers will hold you back. Invest more
there.

[Sander deWaal]

"Arny Krueger" said:


Super T-amp


Stongly un-recommended. 4.5 watts at 0.1% THD is rediculously poor
performance, even with efficient speakers. I'm mysteified by the popularity
of Tripath-based power amps, because they just don't perform well. The
nicest thing that can be said about them is that they sound remarkably good
given all of their audible flaws.


"They sound remarkably good given all of their audible flaws".

Ummm, yeah.

--

- Maggies are an addiction for life. -

[Arny Krueger]

"Sander deWaal" wrote in message

"Arny Krueger" said:


Super T-amp


Stongly un-recommended. 4.5 watts at 0.1% THD is
rediculously poor performance, even with efficient
speakers. I'm mysteified by the popularity of
Tripath-based power amps, because they just don't
perform well. The nicest thing that can be said about
them is that they sound remarkably good given all of
their audible flaws.


"They sound remarkably good given all of their audible
flaws".

Ummm, yeah.

Look that up under "damning with faint praise".

[Doug Sterlina]

Here is my final lineup

Pro-ject Debut III Turntable
Marantz 2270 Receiver
Paradigm Titan Monitor Speakers

[Harry Lavo]

"Doug Sterlina" wrote in message
ups.com...
Here is my final lineup

Pro-ject Debut III Turntable
Marantz 2270 Receiver
Paradigm Titan Monitor Speakers


Should sound good. Have fun!

Harry Lavo

[Bill Riel]

In article . com,
says...
Here is my final lineup

Pro-ject Debut III Turntable
Marantz 2270 Receiver
Paradigm Titan Monitor Speakers

Very nice budget setup! Personally I like the Paradigms quite a bit -
they won't have as much bass as the Klipsch RB-61s you had identified
previously, but I know I'd pick the Paradigms over the Klipsch.

--
Bill

[Arny Krueger]

"Doug Sterlina" wrote in message
ups.com...
Here is my final lineup

Pro-ject Debut III Turntable
Marantz 2270 Receiver
Paradigm Titan Monitor Speakers

If the 2270 is in good shape (should be old enough that a bench check would
be in order, recapping might be needed) then this would be a fine-sounding
system.

[[email protected]]

I agree this looks like a better combination than the previous version.
A relative of mine has that receiver and it's quite nice indeed. With
this setup you can eventually upgrade by throwing in a subwoofer. I agree
it could be worthwhile to have the receiver serviced even if it's working
fine... they're easy to maintain and it would be worth the small investment
to have it cleaned and tweaked after what is probably many years of
dutiful albeit un-maintained use.

Arny Krueger wrote:
: "Doug Sterlina" wrote in message
: ups.com...
: Here is my final lineup
: Pro-ject Debut III Turntable
: Marantz 2270 Receiver
: Paradigm Titan Monitor Speakers
: If the 2270 is in good shape (should be old enough that a bench check would
: be in order, recapping might be needed) then this would be a fine-sounding
: system.

[Doug Sterlina]

Ive been watching the ebay Marantz prices today. What do you suggest
the lowest wattage Marantz receiver I should go with should be?

[Doug Sterlina]

I should probably add a little more info. I will be in a small 9x13'
room in a town house. I dont need it to be super loud, just good
listening volume with some to spare for the weekends.

[Bill Riel]

In article . com,
says...
I should probably add a little more info. I will be in a small 9x13'
room in a town house. I dont need it to be super loud, just good
listening volume with some to spare for the weekends.

You've chosen well for that purpose. I think you'll like the Titans
which will do well in a room that size.

Let us know how things turn out!

--
Bill

[dizzy]

Doug Sterlina wrote:

Ive been watching the ebay Marantz prices today. What do you suggest
the lowest wattage Marantz receiver I should go with should be?

There's definately a sweet-spot in the price-performance curve around
80-100 Watts/channel. Much more than that and the amplifier needs to
get quite heavy and expensive.