[MAD]

Man you guys are still going at it here? I used to post quite a bit
back in 1996-98 and can't believe the same people are arguing about
the same stuff still to this day 10 years later.

I'd figure after Zipster died you guys might take a reality check and
realize 10 year of bantering on the net like this would show you how
big of a waste of time this is.

I mean when you guys die if you add up all the time you've spent
posting here you all might have been able to do something more
worthwhile with your lives.

freaking sad.

[Robert Morein]

wrote:
Man you guys are still going at it here? I used to post quite a bit
back in 1996-98 and can't believe the same people are arguing about
the same stuff still to this day 10 years later.

I'd figure after Zipster died you guys might take a reality check and
realize 10 year of bantering on the net like this would show you how
big of a waste of time this is.

I mean when you guys die if you add up all the time you've spent
posting here you all might have been able to do something more
worthwhile with your lives.

Well most of us, like me, have never done anything worthwhile in our lives.
Look at me - 54 years old, never employed, still living with Mom and Dad in
the same pitiful house I grew up in, and no chance of any kind of career.

Posting here and showing everyone how smart I am gives me a brief ego boost
every day, at least enough to keep me from blowing my brains out at the
local Shop 'N Bag.

Bob Morein
Dresher, PA
(215) 646-4894

[George M. Middius]

Robert said:

What we see on r.a.o. is, I think, a reprise of the French Court of the Age
of Voltaire, except that here we write our epigrams, rather than say them.

Uh-huh. Is that really how you want to characterize the droppings of
Krooger, Witless, and duh-Mikey?

Some of us do strive for the epigrammatic. Others are just acting out
their bafflement with the world that confuses them. Others, who don't play
either game, despise the morons and are bored by our (your and my)
exchanges of witticisms.

As far as spare time, you've made it plain what you're up to, at least in
recent times. As for moi, I flit among my various passions, including
poisoning pigeons, bashing neo-Nazis, and smashing packages of disgusting
imitation food in the supermarkets.




--

Krooscience: The antidote to education, experience, and excellence.

[George M. Middius]

Robert said:
As far as spare time, you've made it plain what you're up to, at least in
recent times. As for moi, I flit among my various passions, including
poisoning pigeons, bashing neo-Nazis, and smashing packages of disgusting
imitation food in the supermarkets.

Poisoning pigeons, eh. Would I like more tea? No thanks, I've had enough.

Just pigeons. Relax.

Think I'll open one this bottled water I brought with me. I'm afraid dinner
is out. I've got to be getting back.

Sounds more like a certain tea party....

Strange, the front door is locked,
jammed. You say you're going to open it with that axe?

Ax, schmax. When I go for the skinheads, I swing wide!
http://www.knightsedge.com/medieval-...lail-2605g.jpg



--

Krooscience: The antidote to education, experience, and excellence.

[MAD]

Yep I swear some of you are now posting from an insane asylum, 10
years of arguing the same thing with the same people on the net will
turn your brain to mush.






On Sat, 07 Apr 2007 16:18:01 -0400, George M. Middius cmndr _ george
@ comcast . net wrote:



Robert said:
As far as spare time, you've made it plain what you're up to, at least in
recent times. As for moi, I flit among my various passions, including
poisoning pigeons, bashing neo-Nazis, and smashing packages of disgusting
imitation food in the supermarkets.

Poisoning pigeons, eh. Would I like more tea? No thanks, I've had enough.

Just pigeons. Relax.

Think I'll open one this bottled water I brought with me. I'm afraid dinner
is out. I've got to be getting back.

Sounds more like a certain tea party....

Strange, the front door is locked,
jammed. You say you're going to open it with that axe?

Ax, schmax. When I go for the skinheads, I swing wide!
http://www.knightsedge.com/medieval-...lail-2605g.jpg

[George M. Middius]

"MAD" Shelleyed:

Ax, schmax. When I go for the skinheads, I swing wide!
http://www.knightsedge.com/medieval-...lail-2605g.jpg

Yep I swear some of you are now posting from an insane asylum, 10
years of arguing the same thing with the same people on the net will
turn your brain to mush.

If you're wondering why you get no respect, I'd suggest the leading
reasons are your poor self-expression skills and your dimwitted
top-posting.

Do they call you "Idiot" at work? RAO already has a couple of major-league
idiots in residence. I'm just saying.




--

Krooscience: The antidote to education, experience, and excellence.

[George M. Middius]

Robert said:

Do they call you "Idiot" at work? RAO already has a couple of major-league
idiots in residence. I'm just saying.

George, you seem to know the personalities best. Any idea who he is?

His email is apparently "silaslang69", so I'd guess he likes to be known
as Silas Lang, and his favorite sex activity is 69.

If you check the archive, you'll see he's a snappish know-it-all, typical
of the 2nd-year engineering student who thinks he knows all there is to
know about audio. That he's essentially simple-minded and undeveloped is
shown by his apparent awe at the imagined efficacy of aBxism rituals.
Also, he's time-challenged -- his other posts to RAO were made in '02 and
'03, not 10 years ago as he implies.

Just scrape him off your shoe and forget about him.




--

Krooscience: The antidote to education, experience, and excellence.

[Arny Krueger]

"MAD" wrote in message



Man you guys are still going at it here? I used to post
quite a bit back in 1996-98 and can't believe the same
people are arguing about the same stuff still to this day
10 years later.

Huh?

At this time, RAO isn't even primarily about audio. It's a bunch of audio
know-nothings arguing about national politics.

I'd figure after Zipster died you guys might take a
reality check and realize 10 year of bantering on the net
like this would show you how big of a waste of time this
is.

Virtually every poster from the days of Zipser has moved on. Those guys were
actually interested in, and therefore knew something about audio.

I mean when you guys die if you add up all the time
you've spent posting here you all might have been able to
do something more worthwhile with your lives.

Agreed - arguing about world politics in the ashes of what used to be a
vibrant audio opinion group before the Middiot, very sad.

freaking sad.

[dave weil]

On Sun, 8 Apr 2007 04:09:46 -0400, "Arny Krueger"
wrote:

I'd figure after Zipster died you guys might take a
reality check and realize 10 year of bantering on the net
like this would show you how big of a waste of time this
is.

Virtually every poster from the days of Zipser has moved on. Those guys were
actually interested in, and therefore knew something about audio.

And you haven't moved on.

Interesting. Using Kroo-logic, one might deduce that you actually
aren't interested in audio and therefore know nothing about audio.

[dave weil]

On Sun, 8 Apr 2007 12:00:23 -0400, "Soundhaspriority"
wrote:

Dave, you're an aesthete. Would you be so kind as to read my "Report from
Pinewood Studios" ?
I'm looking for audiophile input on how a recording of a steel string guitar
should sound.

Well, direct me to it.

It seems self-evident to say this, but I'll say it anyway, a pedal
steel should have that "twang". It's got a similar sound to a
Telecaster. You should be able to hear all of the overtones and it
should be almost "too bright".

[Jenn]

In article ,
"Soundhaspriority" wrote:

"dave weil" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 8 Apr 2007 04:09:46 -0400, "Arny Krueger"
wrote:

I'd figure after Zipster died you guys might take a
reality check and realize 10 year of bantering on the net
like this would show you how big of a waste of time this
is.

Virtually every poster from the days of Zipser has moved on. Those guys
were
actually interested in, and therefore knew something about audio.

And you haven't moved on.

Interesting. Using Kroo-logic, one might deduce that you actually
aren't interested in audio and therefore know nothing about audio.

Dave, you're an aesthete. Would you be so kind as to read my "Report from
Pinewood Studios" ?
I'm looking for audiophile input on how a recording of a steel string guitar
should sound.

Bob Morein
Dresher, PA
(215) 646-4894

About this this, IMO ;-)
http://laurencejuber.com/music/maybeimamazed.mp3

[Jenn]

In article ,
dave weil wrote:

On Sun, 8 Apr 2007 12:00:23 -0400, "Soundhaspriority"
wrote:

Dave, you're an aesthete. Would you be so kind as to read my "Report from
Pinewood Studios" ?
I'm looking for audiophile input on how a recording of a steel string guitar
should sound.

Well, direct me to it.

It seems self-evident to say this, but I'll say it anyway, a pedal
steel should have that "twang". It's got a similar sound to a
Telecaster. You should be able to hear all of the overtones and it
should be almost "too bright".

Maybe I'm wrong, but I don't think that he means pedal steel, Dave. I
think that he means acoustic 6 string.

[MiNe 109]

In article

om,
Jenn wrote:

In article ,
dave weil wrote:

On Sun, 8 Apr 2007 12:00:23 -0400, "Soundhaspriority"
wrote:

Dave, you're an aesthete. Would you be so kind as to read my "Report from
Pinewood Studios" ?
I'm looking for audiophile input on how a recording of a steel string
guitar
should sound.

Well, direct me to it.

It seems self-evident to say this, but I'll say it anyway, a pedal
steel should have that "twang". It's got a similar sound to a
Telecaster. You should be able to hear all of the overtones and it
should be almost "too bright".

Maybe I'm wrong, but I don't think that he means pedal steel, Dave. I
think that he means acoustic 6 string.

Maybe a Leo Kotke or John Fahey record would do.

Stephen

[Pete[_2_]]

"Robert Morein" wrote in message
...

wrote:
Man you guys are still going at it here? I used to post quite a bit
back in 1996-98 and can't believe the same people are arguing about
the same stuff still to this day 10 years later.

I'd figure after Zipster died you guys might take a reality check and
realize 10 year of bantering on the net like this would show you how
big of a waste of time this is.

I mean when you guys die if you add up all the time you've spent
posting here you all might have been able to do something more
worthwhile with your lives.

Well most of us, like me, have never done anything worthwhile in our
lives.
Look at me - 54 years old, never employed, still living with Mom and Dad
in
the same pitiful house I grew up in, and no chance of any kind of career.

Posting here and showing everyone how smart I am gives me a brief ego
boost
every day, at least enough to keep me from blowing my brains out at the
local Shop 'N Bag.

Bob Morein
Dresher, PA
(215) 646-4894



Time to get a sexual experience with a girl while you can still get-it-up so
as not to die a virgin, too.

[Richard Crowley]

Most of us haven't given a fat flying fig about anything to
do with r.a.o in its entire history. Go away and play your
silly games elsewhere.

[MAD]

"that he's essentially simple-minded and undeveloped is
shown by his apparent awe at the imagined efficacy of aBxism rituals.
Also, he's time-challenged -- his other posts to RAO were made in '02
and
'03, not 10 years ago as he implies."

Funny actually I have had several email address since 1996 at that
time I had a netcom.com, then a mindspring address that I still have
but don't use on the usenet and I was here when Gene and Arny started
posting and the whole place exploded and has never been the same
since.

I'm also very very ANTI ABX and think ABX is completely futile and
proves nothing. It's a joke and more of a parlor trick than anything
that has any worth.

That being said I pop in every couple of years and still see the same
people chasing their tails about the same crap. People have died on
this board since all this crap started and it doesn't seem to jar any
of you back to reality.

[Clyde Slick]

I actually have a Leo Kotke recording. You feel it's the sound to strive
for?


If its "6 and 12 String Guitar", yes

[Clyde Slick]

Soundhaspriority a scris:
"Clyde Slick" wrote in message
ps.com...


I actually have a Leo Kotke recording. You feel it's the sound to strive
for?


If its "6 and 12 String Guitar", yes

I wonder how they miked? There is a difficult problem of keeping the bleed
between vocal and instrument to a minimum.


I don't remember that there were any vocals.
Leo described his voice as goose farts ona foggy day.

[Jenn]

In article .com,
"Clyde Slick" wrote:

Soundhaspriority a scris:
"Clyde Slick" wrote in message
ps.com...


I actually have a Leo Kotke recording. You feel it's the sound to strive
for?


If its "6 and 12 String Guitar", yes

I wonder how they miked? There is a difficult problem of keeping the bleed
between vocal and instrument to a minimum.


I don't remember that there were any vocals.
Leo described his voice as goose farts ona foggy day.

He does sing on some of his recordings.

[George M. Middius]

Robert said:

Leo described his voice as goose farts ona foggy day.

He does sing on some of his recordings.

He has what I think of as a cowboy voice. It is culturally very evocative.

Not just culturally. Certain "cowboy voices" have a galvanizing effect on
me too. I have to fight the urge to blast them with a shotgun.




--

Krooscience: The antidote to education, experience, and excellence.

[ScottW]

On Apr 9, 4:05 pm, George M. Middius cmndr _ george @ comcast . net
wrote:
Robert said:

Leo described his voice as goose farts ona foggy day.
He does sing on some of his recordings.
He has what I think of as a cowboy voice. It is culturally very evocative.

Not just culturally. Certain "cowboy voices" have a galvanizing effect on
me too. I have to fight the urge to blast them with a shotgun.

Cuz last time you fired a shotgun the kick dislocated one shoulder
and tumbled you right off the wheelchair. If that rentboy hadn't
shown
up who knows how long you'd lay there wondering why you blew a hole
in the roof over a mouse. Lucky for you HUD's Low Income Rental
Assistance
doesn't require a damage deposity.

ScottW

[George M. Middius]

Yapper barked:

He has what I think of as a cowboy voice. It is culturally very evocative.

Not just culturally. Certain "cowboy voices" have a galvanizing effect on
me too. I have to fight the urge to blast them with a shotgun.

Cuz[sic] last time you fired a shotgun the kick dislocated one shoulder
and tumbled you right off the wheelchair.

You were there? I had to pay for the repairs for that fancy wheelchair
too. :-(

If that rentboy hadn't shown
up who knows how long you'd lay there wondering why you blew a hole
in the roof over a mouse.

There was no roof over a mouse. You must be flashing back to your own
hunting misadventures.

Lucky for you HUD's Low Income Rental
Assistance
doesn't
require
a
damage
deposity.

Scooter, I applaud your efforts to make a joke, even though you're still
intensely lame. While you were gurgling with inchoate rage, I burgled your
therapist's office and captured one of the aversion-therapy stimuli she
uses on you. Let us know how much of a reaction you have:

http://301url.com/9h5




--

Krooscience: The antidote to education, experience, and excellence.

[[email protected]]

btw, while we're at it, what is the best LD condenser for under
$100?

[George M. Middius]

Robert said:

He has what I think of as a cowboy voice. It is culturally very
evocative.

Not just culturally. Certain "cowboy voices" have a galvanizing effect on
me too. I have to fight the urge to blast them with a shotgun.

If a person sings simply in his/her regional accent, it doesn't bother me.
What really irks me is the "rock'n roll accent", where people whose speech
is perfectly normal conform, in their performances, to a synthetic accent
that has no roots in any ethnicity or regionality. It's kind of a synthesis
of down home/trucker/low life druggie. Why would anyone want to
intentionally speak like a low life?

I always assumed it was a case of following the herd. A few people do it
and are successful, so others imitate them.

The Beatles didn't do this. Perhaps someone more informed than me could
trace the genesis of rock'n roll speak.

It definitely didn't originate in Michigan. Nothing did.




--

Krooscience: The antidote to education, experience, and excellence.

[Clyde Slick]

Jenn a scris:
In article .com,
"Clyde Slick" wrote:

Soundhaspriority a scris:
"Clyde Slick" wrote in message
ps.com...


I actually have a Leo Kotke recording. You feel it's the sound to strive
for?


If its "6 and 12 String Guitar", yes

I wonder how they miked? There is a difficult problem of keeping the bleed
between vocal and instrument to a minimum.


I don't remember that there were any vocals.
Leo described his voice as goose farts ona foggy day.

He does sing on some of his recordings.

But I don't thimk he did on the first one, I rember it being an
instrumental.
Well, maybe he did on one or 2 songs.

[Scott Dorsey]

In article om,
wrote:
btw, while we're at it, what is the best LD condenser for under
$100?

Half an hour rental of a 251?
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[Ty Ford]

On Mon, 9 Apr 2007 21:22:36 -0400, wrote
(in article om):

btw, while we're at it, what is the best LD condenser for under
$100?



MCA SP1

Ty

--Audio Equipment Reviews Audio Production Services
Acting and Voiceover Demos http://www.tyford.com
Guitar player?:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4RZJ9MptZmU

[dave weil]

On Sun, 8 Apr 2007 13:11:24 -0400, "Soundhaspriority"
wrote:


"dave weil" wrote in message
.. .
On Sun, 8 Apr 2007 12:00:23 -0400, "Soundhaspriority"
wrote:

Dave, you're an aesthete. Would you be so kind as to read my "Report from
Pinewood Studios" ?
I'm looking for audiophile input on how a recording of a steel string
guitar
should sound.

Well, direct me to it.

It seems self-evident to say this, but I'll say it anyway, a pedal
steel should have that "twang". It's got a similar sound to a
Telecaster. You should be able to hear all of the overtones and it
should be almost "too bright".

http://groups.google.com/group/rec.a...bfd98e 5edf00

The post describes three mike setups I can mix in post. All the virtues
can't be had at once. For example, the close mike pair does what you
describe, but it's almost synthetic, because the instrument is not in a real
space. Read it over, and let me know what you think the compromise should
be.

TIA
Bob Morein
Dresher, PA
(215) 646-4894

Im not sure that I could give you any guidance based on reading the
above. The best I can do is give you some prime examples of pedal
steel sounds and you can do some trial-and-error recording to try to
match them:

For an aggressive, more "rock and roll sound" - Christine's Tune by
The Flying Burrito Brothers

Chris Difford has recorded C&W versions of his Squeeze songs on his
most recent album South East Side Story and the pedal steel player on
the songs is very well recorded. I recently saw him live and the sound
was very close to what you hear on the record. He was using a Fender
tweed Twin Reverb very closely mic'ed with a single unidentified mic.
I'd say that it was within 2 inches.. I can't say what kind of
processing was being done at the board. The mic was off-center, in the
middle of the left quadrant of the front of the amp. It was just a
little below the equator of the front of the amp and directly below
the "der" part of the Fender logo. The amp is an 85 watt amp with 2 12
inch speakers, so it looks like it was being mic'ed off center of the
left speaker. He was plugged into the left vibrato channel. I'd
imagine the the bass was probably rolled off a bit. He was using a JCH
pedal steel.

Listen to some Junior Brown albums. His sound is pretty good. He's got
that "ethereal", heavily-echoed sound down.

The pedal steel sounds on Stephen Stills' album Manassas very good.

Pete Drake is probably the ultimate pedal steel player, although his
solo stuff can be pretty gimmicky, with talk-box stuff. Some classic
country songs that feature his archtypical songs are Dear John by Jean
Shepard, Just Because I'm a Woman by Dolly Parton (this one is a
stellar example of his "sound"), and Tennessee Whiskey by David Allen
Coe, which is a great example of a "background" use of pedal steel.
He's the pedal steel player on Dylan's Nashville Skyline, which means
that's him on Lay Lady Lay, although the sound on that album presents
him pretty far back in the mix. Don't forget that he's also on All
Things Must Pass by George Harrison.

For modern sounds, check out Lambchop, although you might be the type
of person to be put to sleep by their languid style. They use pedal
steel more for atmospherics than a traditional country sound.

You're going to have to decide whether you want a classic Nashville
country sound or something a little different. When you listen to
Robert Randolph and the Family Band, you'll be able to hear something
that puts the pedal steel front and center, while still retaining some
of the "classic country sound". The main thing to remember is that if
you want the "ethereal" country sound, you'll have to play with reverb
and go a little overboard.

Panama Red by New Riders of the Purple Sage has some great pedal steel
on it. That's Buddy Cage. He's got that staccato sound down. You won't
hear much reverb on it - perhaps just a very small touch.

Don't know is this is much help, but maybe it will give you some
direction and some reference. There's SO many great examples of pedal
steel in country music and if you start with the Pete Drake songs that
i recommended, it will be a good start because the sound that he
achieved on those records is still emulated to this day. If you check
out songs of George Jones like He Stopped Loving Her Today and The
Grand Tour, you'll hear some almost note perfect pedal steel
underpinnings - pedal steel that doesn't stand out but supports the
songs almost like an organ does. That reminds me that if you can find
a video copy of Ricky Skaggs' old TV series, Monday Night at the
Ryman, you can check out his show featuring George Jones and Elvis
Costello, and I remember the pedal steel player in the backing band
being great in reproducing those classic Jones hits. Oh yeah, I was at
that taping.

[ScottW]

On Apr 12, 4:02 pm, dave weil wrote:
On Sun, 8 Apr 2007 13:11:24 -0400, "Soundhaspriority"





wrote:

"dave weil" wrote in message
.. .
On Sun, 8 Apr 2007 12:00:23 -0400, "Soundhaspriority"
wrote:

Dave, you're an aesthete. Would you be so kind as to read my "Report from
Pinewood Studios" ?
I'm looking for audiophile input on how a recording of a steel string
guitar
should sound.

Well, direct me to it.

It seems self-evident to say this, but I'll say it anyway, a pedal
steel should have that "twang". It's got a similar sound to a
Telecaster. You should be able to hear all of the overtones and it
should be almost "too bright".

http://groups.google.com/group/rec.a..._thread/thread...

The post describes three mike setups I can mix in post. All the virtues
can't be had at once. For example, the close mike pair does what you
describe, but it's almost synthetic, because the instrument is not in a real
space. Read it over, and let me know what you think the compromise should
be.

TIA
Bob Morein
Dresher, PA
(215) 646-4894

Im not sure that I could give you any guidance based on reading the
above. The best I can do is give you some prime examples of pedal
steel sounds

Dave,
Maybe you missed it and I hate to break it to you given all the
interesting
work you put into this post....but he really didn't care about pedal
steel.
He's talking about basic acoustic guitars with steel strings.

ScottW

[dave weil]

On 12 Apr 2007 16:07:35 -0700, in rec.audio.opinion you wrote:

He's talking about basic acoustic guitars with steel strings.

Well ****.

Scratch all of that.

Too many variables for me to address.

There are so many ways and so many different styles to try to emulate
that I don't know what to say other than to just go with the gut (no
pun intended).

[Clyde Slick]

dave weil a scris:
On 12 Apr 2007 16:07:35 -0700, in rec.audio.opinion you wrote:

He's talking about basic acoustic guitars with steel strings.

Well ****.

Scratch all of that.

Too many variables for me to address.

There are so many ways and so many different styles to try to emulate
that I don't know what to say other than to just go with the gut (no
pun intended).

Well, it was still a very interesting post, and I thank you for it.
You might want to check out Sacred Steel, a compilation
of pedal steel Gospel music form the Dominion churches
around Melbourne Florida.
Some recent and some early recordings pit together.
Definitely an influence on the Allman Bros, Duane was around there in
the late 60's.
Robert Randolph also came out of similar churches in Michigan.

[MiNe 109]

In article .com,
"Clyde Slick" wrote:

dave weil a scris:
On 12 Apr 2007 16:07:35 -0700, in rec.audio.opinion you wrote:

He's talking about basic acoustic guitars with steel strings.

Well ****.

Scratch all of that.

Too many variables for me to address.

There are so many ways and so many different styles to try to emulate
that I don't know what to say other than to just go with the gut (no
pun intended).

Well, it was still a very interesting post, and I thank you for it.
You might want to check out Sacred Steel, a compilation
of pedal steel Gospel music form the Dominion churches
around Melbourne Florida.
Some recent and some early recordings pit together.
Definitely an influence on the Allman Bros, Duane was around there in
the late 60's.
Robert Randolph also came out of similar churches in Michigan.

Jersey. One of his Austin City Limits shows featured his pedal steel
playing mentors/church elders.

Stephen