[[email protected]]

Excuse my intrusion ya'll I'm not an audio pro (but I am a dam good
guitar/banjo player). But back to the story....

A old guy down the street was moving last fall and the my kids came
home with some of the stuff they picked out of big pile of garbage he
had piled at the curb for the trash man. I went down and poked
around when they told me there was a guitar case (alas empty).

But I did pull out a big tupperware tub full of 1/4" reel to reel
tapes. The tapes appear to be recordings of various bands and
artists in radio performances, and several are recordings from local
clubs. All are from the late 60's and early 70's.

My question a

- Can I sell tapes recorded from radio shows?
- Can I sell tapes recorded live in a club?

I made the mistake of posting a note on a couple of the band's fans
websites and received a ton of email wanting copies of the tapes.
Some said I shouldn't play the tapes as I could damage them. I don't
want to become a bootleger/pirater of tapes. I only want to sell the
single copies I have of each.

Can I do this?

Thanks
Ronko

[Mike Rivers]

On Mar 4, 8:18 am, wrote:

A old guy down the street was moving last fall and the my kids came
home with some of the stuff they picked out of big pile of garbage

I did pull out a big tupperware tub full of 1/4" reel to reel
tapes. The tapes appear to be recordings of various bands and
artists in radio performances, and several are recordings from local
clubs. All are from the late 60's and early 70's.

My question a

- Can I sell tapes recorded from radio shows?
- Can I sell tapes recorded live in a club?

This question comes up a lot because there was a lot of private
informal recording done in those days, and people often treasured
their own tapes. There was no "market" as such for them back then,
mostly because there was no way to get the material published
economically, or even publish notice of its existence.

Today, though, everybody, including you, wants to make a buck of
something that they think might be of value. I know they say
"possession is nine tenths of the law" but that doesn't really apply
to intellectual property. Because you currently have possession of the
physical tapes, you don't have the right of ownership to the content.
It's possible that the rightful owner is no longer alive, or cannot be
contacted.

If these are truly historical recordings that have an established
value (they're of established artists not just a local band that might
be famous some day) there's probably an archive to which you could
donate the tapes, and that would be the right thing to do. They have
policies and procedures for distribution and publication, and almost
certainly have contacted the copyright owners or their heirs, and have
arrangements to give them a fair share of any money that might be made
from the recordings.

Perhaps you could make such arrangements yourself if you can identify
the rightful owners, but it's a lot of trouble to administer a
publishing and royalty program. And if you sold copies, you'd also
have to pay publishing royalties for the songs, usually starting with
the Harry Fox agency.

Honestly, unless you can find a legitimate buyer who won't take unfair
advantage of the tapes, you should just put them back in the trash, or
keep them yourself if some day you might decide to take on a project.
But without securing permission from all involved, I think it would be
the wrong thing to turn copies loose to fans. And since you didn't
have any cost in obtaining the tapes other than a walk down the block,
I don't think it's fair for you to attempt to profit from your
possible good fortune without at least putting some work into it.

But then, life isn't always fair, so do what your conscience tells
you.

As far as playing the tapes, well somebody's got to do it. If you
understand the mechanics of playing old tape and have the proper
equipment, go ahead and at least see what you have. It might be great,
it might be garbage. But depending on the age, they could be sticky,
they could have splices that are coming apart, you may not have a very
gentle tape deck, you may not have the ability to play them at the
correct speed or head configuration. And while you aren't likely to
damage them beyond repair (you probably have the common sense to stop
when something isn't working right) you could make them worse than
they are now.

That pot of gold you found might turn out to be a pot of ****.

[Scott Dorsey]

Chel van Gennip wrote:
On Sun, 04 Mar 2007 14:18:11 +0100, Ronko99 wrote:

- Can I sell tapes recorded from radio shows? - Can I sell tapes
recorded live in a club?

Only with the permission of the artists (or the current owners of the
rights of the recordings).

Unless you're in Italy.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[Richard Crowley]

wrote...
My question a
- Can I sell tapes recorded from radio shows?
- Can I sell tapes recorded live in a club?

Doesn't really matter where they were recorded.
Except maybe that if the recordings of the radio
shows have anyting more than the bands' music,
then you have the radio station/DJ, etc. to deal
with in addition to the band and the owner of the
music.

I made the mistake of posting a note on a couple
of the band's fans websites and received a ton of
email wanting copies of the tapes. Some said I
shouldn't play the tapes as I could damage them.
I don't want to become a bootleger/pirater of tapes.
I only want to sell the single copies I have of each.

Selling the physical tapes themselves (with whatever
their content) is one thing. I woud feel confident that
would be legal, but since I am NOT a lawyer, you
would be a fool to take MY advice.

But selling copies of their *content* is a completely
different matter. Copyright law controls the right to
*distribute copies* (hence the name).

You do not have the legal right to sell (or even give
away for free) *copies* of the content in any form
without legal clearance from:
1) the copyright owner of the music, 2) the performer(s);
3) the person/company who made the recording.
4) the radio station/DJ, etc. in the case of the
recordings from radio shows.

If these were clearly original compositions (as constrasted
with "covers") by local performers who never "made it",
some might be inclined to think they could get away with
it. That statement is purposely ambiguous.

If the existence of fan websites indicates that members
of the band are still identifable, the legal thing would
be to start by contacting them.

Since you didn't identify the performers or the music,
much of this will be left up to your judgement and
research.

I am not a lawyer. I don't even play one on TV.
This is not legal advice. And if it were, it would be
worth less than you paid for it.

[Willie K. Yee, MD]

On 4 Mar 2007 09:42:48 -0500, (Scott Dorsey) wrote:

Chel van Gennip wrote:
On Sun, 04 Mar 2007 14:18:11 +0100, Ronko99 wrote:

- Can I sell tapes recorded from radio shows? - Can I sell tapes
recorded live in a club?

Only with the permission of the artists (or the current owners of the
rights of the recordings).

Unless you're in Italy.
--scott

Or China. Where, if you DON'T copy them and sell them you will be
prosecuted for squandering state resources.

[Mark]

On Mar 4, 12:19 pm, (Willie K. Yee, MD) wrote:
On 4 Mar 2007 09:42:48 -0500, (Scott Dorsey) wrote:

Chel van Gennip wrote:
On Sun, 04 Mar 2007 14:18:11 +0100, Ronko99 wrote:

- Can I sell tapes recorded from radio shows? - Can I sell tapes
recorded live in a club?

Only with the permission of the artists (or the current owners of the
rights of the recordings).

Unless you're in Italy.
--scott

Or China. Where, if you DON'T copy them and sell them you will be
prosecuted for squandering state resources.

If somebody wants them, it would be in my opinion, morally a sin to
put them back in the trash or let them rot on the shelf. I would find
a way legal or not, to get them to the people that want them. In my
opinion, morality takes precedence over legality.



Mark

[hank alrich]

Mark wrote:

Willie K. Yee, MD wrote:
Scott Dorsey wrote:

Chel van Gennip wrote:
Ronko99 wrote:

- Can I sell tapes recorded from radio shows? - Can I sell tapes
recorded live in a club?

Only with the permission of the artists (or the current owners of the
rights of the recordings).

Unless you're in Italy.
--scott

Or China. Where, if you DON'T copy them and sell them you will be
prosecuted for squandering state resources.

If somebody wants them, it would be in my opinion, morally a sin to
put them back in the trash or let them rot on the shelf. I would find
a way legal or not, to get them to the people that want them. In my
opinion, morality takes precedence over legality.

Mike Rivers wrote:

* If these are truly historical recordings that have an established
* value (they're of established artists not just a local band that
* might be famous some day) there's probably an archive to which
* you could donate the tapes, and that would be the right thing to do.
* They have policies and procedures for distribution and publication,
* and almost certainly have contacted the copyright owners or their
* heirs, and have arrangements to give them a fair share of any
* money that might be made from the recordings.

And IMO, right there Mike covered the legal and moral bases at a level
higher than just making copies available to people who want them.

--
ha
Iraq is Arabic for Vietnam

[darrelldklein]

On Mar 4, 10:42 am, "Richard Crowley" wrote:
wrote...
My question a
- Can I sell tapes recorded from radio shows?
- Can I sell tapes recorded live in a club?

Doesn't really matter where they were recorded.
Except maybe that if the recordings of the radio
shows have anyting more than the bands' music,
then you have the radio station/DJ, etc. to deal
with in addition to the band and the owner of the
music.

I made the mistake of posting a note on a couple
of the band's fans websites and received a ton of
email wanting copies of the tapes. Some said I
shouldn't play the tapes as I could damage them.
I don't want to become a bootleger/pirater of tapes.
I only want to sell the single copies I have of each.

Selling the physical tapes themselves (with whatever
their content) is one thing. I woud feel confident that
would be legal, but since I am NOT a lawyer, you
would be a fool to take MY advice.

But selling copies of their *content* is a completely
different matter. Copyright law controls the right to
*distribute copies* (hence the name).

You do not have the legal right to sell (or even give
away for free) *copies* of the content in any form
without legal clearance from:
1) the copyright owner of the music, 2) the performer(s);
3) the person/company who made the recording.
4) the radio station/DJ, etc. in the case of the
recordings from radio shows.

If these were clearly original compositions (as constrasted
with "covers") by local performers who never "made it",
some might be inclined to think they could get away with
it. That statement is purposely ambiguous.

If the existence of fan websites indicates that members
of the band are still identifable, the legal thing would
be to start by contacting them.

Since you didn't identify the performers or the music,
much of this will be left up to your judgement and
research.

I am not a lawyer. I don't even play one on TV.
This is not legal advice. And if it were, it would be
worth less than you paid for it.

I think Richard is correct in terms of selling the single tape.

[Ronko]

Thanks to all for the input. My intent was never to copy and sell
the recordings. Only get rid of the originals.

BTW, the band is still alive, making albums, and touring . The
recording is from their very early days, before they were even signed.

Now, if I can just find a reel to reel to check and see if anything of
worth is actually on the tapes (I've been going by what was written on
the boxes).

Thanks again...


wrote...
My question a
- Can I sell tapes recorded from radio shows?
- Can I sell tapes recorded live in a club?

Doesn't really matter where they were recorded.
Except maybe that if the recordings of the radio
shows have anyting more than the bands' music,
then you have the radio station/DJ, etc. to deal
with in addition to the band and the owner of the
music.

I made the mistake of posting a note on a couple
of the band's fans websites and received a ton of
email wanting copies of the tapes. Some said I
shouldn't play the tapes as I could damage them.
I don't want to become a bootleger/pirater of tapes.
I only want to sell the single copies I have of each.

Selling the physical tapes themselves (with whatever
their content) is one thing. I woud feel confident that
would be legal, but since I am NOT a lawyer, you
would be a fool to take MY advice.

But selling copies of their *content* is a completely
different matter. Copyright law controls the right to
*distribute copies* (hence the name).

You do not have the legal right to sell (or even give
away for free) *copies* of the content in any form
without legal clearance from:
1) the copyright owner of the music, 2) the performer(s);
3) the person/company who made the recording.
4) the radio station/DJ, etc. in the case of the
recordings from radio shows.

If these were clearly original compositions (as constrasted
with "covers") by local performers who never "made it",
some might be inclined to think they could get away with
it. That statement is purposely ambiguous.

If the existence of fan websites indicates that members
of the band are still identifable, the legal thing would
be to start by contacting them.

Since you didn't identify the performers or the music,
much of this will be left up to your judgement and
research.

I am not a lawyer. I don't even play one on TV.
This is not legal advice. And if it were, it would be
worth less than you paid for it.

I think Richard is correct in terms of selling the single tape.

[Richard Crowley]

"Ronko" wrote ...
Thanks to all for the input. My intent was never to copy and sell
the recordings. Only get rid of the originals.

BTW, the band is still alive, making albums, and touring . The
recording is from their very early days, before they were even signed.

If it were me, I would feel obligated to at the very least
give them "first right of refusal" before even considering
selling to anyone else. At the very least to alert them of
the existance and possible sale of the recordings. Nobody
you sell it to could do anything with it either, absent legal
authority, anyway.

[Mike Rivers]

On Mar 4, 9:33 pm, "Ronko" wrote:

BTW, the band is still alive, making albums, and touring . The
recording is from their very early days, before they were even signed.

Now, if I can just find a reel to reel to check and see if anything of
worth is actually on the tapes (I've been going by what was written on
the boxes).

Why don't you just send the tapes to the band and let them check them
out? Maybe they'll put you on the backstage guest list next time they
come to your town.

[Federico]

Unless you're in Italy.
--scott

I was supposed to say that!
F.

[John Smith[_2_]]

wrote:
Excuse my intrusion ya'll I'm not an audio pro (but I am a dam good
guitar/banjo player). But back to the story....

A old guy down the street was moving last fall and the my kids came
home with some of the stuff they picked out of big pile of garbage he
had piled at the curb for the trash man. I went down and poked
around when they told me there was a guitar case (alas empty).

But I did pull out a big tupperware tub full of 1/4" reel to reel
tapes. The tapes appear to be recordings of various bands and
artists in radio performances, and several are recordings from local
clubs. All are from the late 60's and early 70's.

My question a

- Can I sell tapes recorded from radio shows?
- Can I sell tapes recorded live in a club?

I made the mistake of posting a note on a couple of the band's fans
websites and received a ton of email wanting copies of the tapes.
Some said I shouldn't play the tapes as I could damage them. I don't
want to become a bootleger/pirater of tapes. I only want to sell the
single copies I have of each.

Can I do this?

Thanks
Ronko


Legally you can sell the tapes, you probably can not legally sell copies
of them. I say probably because the copyright laws have changed since
the recordings were made, and those changes were not retroactive.

I will leave the moral and ethical sides of the issue to your conscience.