http://www.aloha-audio.com/library/reviewer.html

Take a look at Mr. Olson's comments here about the Pass
Aleph 3. I am only interested in his comment on this one
item on that page. Scroll down till you see 'Great Expect-
tions".

Now I only read this yesterday for the first time. But it
looks like the review I would have written myself of the
Aleph 3 I had a few years back. His description of the
sound is dead on to how it sounded to me. I had read
more favorable reviews and wondered how it could be
this way. So light and thin it was not possible to use for
most music. While also being so pure sounding and grain
free. Smooth without being smoothed over. Appealing in
ways, but just not right.

I even loaned it to a couple friends. One of them was real
interested. I left it in my car and told him to pick it up and
try it out. Didn't tell him anything else about it. He too
had an opinion that was the same. Took it to two other friends
house to try. Even made favorable comments before hand.
Yet both rather didn't like it. Tried to be courteous, but eventually
just spilled the beans. They all had the same description of
how it sounded. And all had read glowing reviews with very
different descriptions.

So it was tried with 5 very different speakers when I owned it.
Very different systems. All of us had about the same opinion
of how it sounded. And 3 gave their opinion with no input from
the rest of us. Yet same opinion.

What in the test results of the amp explain this? Am I to believe
it was transparent as anything, yet we all had an opinion of
something not so transparent at the same time? Heck I even
did some basic measurements of it with two of the speakers.
It's measured results were pretty much the same even with
real speakers connected. By this I mean frequency response
at the speaker terminals, a few test tones off a CD viewed on
an oscilloscope and such. Yes, I know O-scope traces only show
gross problems. Which it sure sounded like it had somehow.

The specs of the amp were seemingly beyond reproach in
general. It was DC coupled, would amplify DC at the input
just fine. So response was DC to something like -3db at
100khz. Fairly low distortion right up to full power. And it
was all second harmonic with little else. Very good signal
to noise ratio. So why did it not sound like other flat,
wide bandwidth, low distortion power amps?

My own guess is inadequate current. It was firmly limited
to I think 8 amps. Also the speaker it worked best with
were my Quad ESL-63's. Which would be very gentle
current-wise in the lower 4 octaves where most power is
needed. I wasn't surprised it might limp a bit on some
speakers. Still one friends very efficient speakers with
very gentle phase on the woofer didn't fair too well.

Still am I to think we fooled ourselves, it didn't sound light
weight? And if not, why would it sound light weight?

Hoping for some interesting replies. Not bickering. I well
may ask questions of those replies, please keep in mind,
I am not bickering just trying to work out in my mind
how to think of such experiences.

Dennis

The review from Lynn Olson is worthless. Its a "debacle" when only light
bass was found?

The Aleph 3 and 30 are both wonderful amplifiers, the 30 even better, yes
both are current limited, they can only do 45w at 4 ohms. What is the Ariel
anyhow, and what is the load? The Aleph 3 is a small amp and certainly can't
compete in volume with its bigger brothers like the Aleph 1 and 2. Listen to
one of those, bass is not an issue. Or try the bigger X series amps, plenty
of bass. I usually find that Pass's designs reveal other limitations. I
drive a set of Magnepan MMG's with my Aleph 30 and there is plenty of bass.
I've even hooked up the little amp to Martin Logan SL-3's, in a small room
it will get them going, admittedly this is not a good match though. With
well matched somewhat efficient speakers the Alephs are pure and musical
sounding amplifiers. I haven't heard a tube amp yet that can beat an Aleph,
even the so highly thought of 300B's!


"Dennis Moore" wrote in message
. net...
http://www.aloha-audio.com/library/reviewer.html

Take a look at Mr. Olson's comments here about the Pass
Aleph 3. I am only interested in his comment on this one
item on that page. Scroll down till you see 'Great Expect-
tions".

Now I only read this yesterday for the first time. But it
looks like the review I would have written myself of the
Aleph 3 I had a few years back. His description of the
sound is dead on to how it sounded to me. I had read
more favorable reviews and wondered how it could be
this way. So light and thin it was not possible to use for
most music. While also being so pure sounding and grain
free. Smooth without being smoothed over. Appealing in
ways, but just not right.

I even loaned it to a couple friends. One of them was real
interested. I left it in my car and told him to pick it up and
try it out. Didn't tell him anything else about it. He too
had an opinion that was the same. Took it to two other friends
house to try. Even made favorable comments before hand.
Yet both rather didn't like it. Tried to be courteous, but eventually
just spilled the beans. They all had the same description of
how it sounded. And all had read glowing reviews with very
different descriptions.

So it was tried with 5 very different speakers when I owned it.
Very different systems. All of us had about the same opinion
of how it sounded. And 3 gave their opinion with no input from
the rest of us. Yet same opinion.

What in the test results of the amp explain this? Am I to believe
it was transparent as anything, yet we all had an opinion of
something not so transparent at the same time? Heck I even
did some basic measurements of it with two of the speakers.
It's measured results were pretty much the same even with
real speakers connected. By this I mean frequency response
at the speaker terminals, a few test tones off a CD viewed on
an oscilloscope and such. Yes, I know O-scope traces only show
gross problems. Which it sure sounded like it had somehow.

The specs of the amp were seemingly beyond reproach in
general. It was DC coupled, would amplify DC at the input
just fine. So response was DC to something like -3db at
100khz. Fairly low distortion right up to full power. And it
was all second harmonic with little else. Very good signal
to noise ratio. So why did it not sound like other flat,
wide bandwidth, low distortion power amps?

My own guess is inadequate current. It was firmly limited
to I think 8 amps. Also the speaker it worked best with
were my Quad ESL-63's. Which would be very gentle
current-wise in the lower 4 octaves where most power is
needed. I wasn't surprised it might limp a bit on some
speakers. Still one friends very efficient speakers with
very gentle phase on the woofer didn't fair too well.

Still am I to think we fooled ourselves, it didn't sound light
weight? And if not, why would it sound light weight?

Hoping for some interesting replies. Not bickering. I well
may ask questions of those replies, please keep in mind,
I am not bickering just trying to work out in my mind
how to think of such experiences.

Dennis

"Dennis Moore" wrote in message
. net...
http://www.aloha-audio.com/library/reviewer.html

*snip*

Still am I to think we fooled ourselves, it didn't sound light
weight? And if not, why would it sound light weight?

*snip*

The following is a link to TJN's measurements in the original Stereophile
review.
http://www.stereophile.com/showarchives.cgi?674:9

Quoting from his last paragraph..."I do, however, advise caution concerning
your overall system gain with the Aleph 3. Its 20dB voltage gain is unlikely
to be adequate when used with a "passive" or very-low-gain preamp and
loudspeakers of typical sensitivity. (The gain of different amplifiers
varies, but most of those we have measured have gains 6-9dB higher than the
Pass.)"

This is one of those situations where proper level matching at the speaker
inputs would likely have been very revealing. I suspect that when you plug
in a low sensitivity amp such as the Aleph 3, the tendancy is to listen at
much lower volume. If your reference amp has you listening with the preamp
at the nine o'clock position, the Aleph 3 would require a preamp setting
significantly higher, perhaps eleven o'clock, in order to achieve the same
power output, and "that can't possibly be right", so the tendancy is to
listen at reduced volume. This could certainly lead you to conclude that
the Aleph was anemic or lightweight.

Dennis,

I don't consider the Aleph 3 to be a plug-and-play amp. Getting the
best out of it requires attention to what is connected to its inputs
and outputs:

1. What did you and your friends use to drive the Aleph 3's? Their
input impedance is a low 10k Ohms which would likely cause sonic
problems when driven by a preamp with a high output impedance (say 400
Ohms or greater, e.g., vacuum tube preamps with a 0.5k - 2.0k Ohm
output impedance). I like an amp to have a minimum 40k-50k Ohm input
impedance for use with a wide variety of preamps. Also, the Aleph's
have low voltage gain, requiring more than 2V to drive them to full
power. This might cause some preamps to strain. Again, for
plug-and-play purposes, I like an amp which can be driven to full
power by no more than a 1V input.

2. What speakers were used with the Aleph 3's? My sense is that the
Aleph 3's tend to be underpowered unless used with a reasonably
efficient loudspeaker (say at least 90 dB SPL/1m), or for listening at
low levels.

Given the Aleph's specs, your results don't seem all that surprising.

Terry

Dennis Moore wrote:

http://www.aloha-audio.com/library/reviewer.html

Take a look at Mr. Olson's comments here about the Pass
Aleph 3. I am only interested in his comment on this one
item on that page. Scroll down till you see 'Great Expect-
tions".

snip

Still am I to think we fooled ourselves, it didn't sound light
weight? And if not, why would it sound light weight?
,

"Dennis Moore" wrote in message
. net...
http://www.aloha-audio.com/library/reviewer.html


One thing Lynn Olson's review suggests is that cables sound very different. If the
Pass was used for nothing else, it must have been revealing ....

Used with efficient speakers, in a small to medium room, with the
proper preamp, I use the Pass Aleph P, the amp sounds great. I have owned
this combo for over 3 years now. As you know, in the world of audiophiles, three
years with the same gear is virtually unheard of!

"graham"

"Dennis Moore" wrote in message
.net...
http://www.aloha-audio.com/library/reviewer.html


One thing Lynn Olson's review suggests is that cables sound very different.
If the
Pass was used for nothing else, it must have been revealing ....

Used with efficient speakers, in a small to medium room, with the
proper preamp, I use the Pass Aleph P, the amp sounds great. I have owned
this combo for over 3 years now. As you know, in the world of audiophiles,
three
years with the same gear is virtually unheard of!

Gee; if I believe the content of some posts you're suggesting others are
turning over equipment when its just finally getting properly broken-in and has
fully revealed itself sonically. No wonder there's so much angst.