[mcnews]

i'd like a pros opinion with much experience with many mics to off er
their opinion on the best all purpose mic in the $400-900 range. i
will be using it mostly for vocals, acoustic guitar and upright bass.
my preamps are humble and will remain so for a while. please try to
stay on topic with your reply and please do not answer my question with
more questions. i am not a pro and have no aspirations to become one.
just want to make decent recordings.
how about the ev re-20 for example?
tia,
mcnewsxp

[Jay Kadis]

In article .com,
"mcnews" wrote:

i'd like a pros opinion with much experience with many mics to off er
their opinion on the best all purpose mic in the $400-900 range. i
will be using it mostly for vocals, acoustic guitar and upright bass.
my preamps are humble and will remain so for a while. please try to
stay on topic with your reply and please do not answer my question with
more questions. i am not a pro and have no aspirations to become one.
just want to make decent recordings.
how about the ev re-20 for example?
tia,
mcnewsxp

I've got a lot of mileage out of the AKG C414. It might not be the
absolute best on anything but it works pretty well on almost everything.
The multiple patterns give you a lot of flexibility.

If you really want to save money, try the AKG C535EB. It's promoted as
a condensor vocal mic but it sounds good on a lot of instruments. It'll
be below the $400 mark.

-Jay

--
x------- Jay Kadis ------- x ---- Jay's Attic Studio ----x
x Lecturer, Audio Engineer x Dexter Records x
x CCRMA, Stanford University x http://www.offbeats.com/ x
x---------- http://ccrma.stanford.edu/~jay/ ------------x

[Scott Dorsey]

In article .com,
mcnews wrote:
i'd like a pros opinion with much experience with many mics to off er
their opinion on the best all purpose mic in the $400-900 range. i
will be using it mostly for vocals, acoustic guitar and upright bass.
my preamps are humble and will remain so for a while. please try to
stay on topic with your reply and please do not answer my question with
more questions. i am not a pro and have no aspirations to become one.
just want to make decent recordings.
how about the ev re-20 for example?

Are you going to be spotmiking things, or mostly recording rooms?

The RE-20 is a good choice. It's okay on any vocal, on acoustic guitar,
and on upright bass. It's useless as a room mike, but that might be okay
for you. It's sufficiently uncolored that you can use it on all tracks
without the coloration building up.

I might be more apt to recommend a small diaphragm condenser mike like
the Josephson C4 or the Audio-Technica AT4051. It'll sound more detailed
and etched on acoustic guitar and it's a great mike on bass, but you might
find it a real pain to get good vocals with. The good news is that it will
be much better for room miking.

Although, for $900 you can probably pick up a C4 and a used RE-20 and still
not break your budget.

You should also have an EV 635A and an SM-57 in the closet somewhere. Both
are very highly colored, but they are useful colorations and they don't cost
much money. Don't spend more than $50 for a used 635A.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[mcnews]

or rode NT2-A

[mcnews]

Soundhaspriority wrote:
"mcnews" wrote in message
ups.com...
or rode NT2-A

Rode NT-2000 ?

http://www.swee****er.com/store/detail/NT2A/

[Paul Stamler]

"mcnews" wrote in message
oups.com...
i'd like a pros opinion with much experience with many mics to off er
their opinion on the best all purpose mic in the $400-900 range. i
will be using it mostly for vocals, acoustic guitar and upright bass.
my preamps are humble and will remain so for a while. please try to
stay on topic with your reply and please do not answer my question with
more questions. i am not a pro and have no aspirations to become one.
just want to make decent recordings.
how about the ev re-20 for example?

That would be my first recommendation. Also look at the Sennheiser MD441.

Peace,
Paul

[Doc Weaver]

mcnews wrote:
i'd like a pros opinion with much experience with many mics to off er
their opinion on the best all purpose mic in the $400-900 range. i
will be using it mostly for vocals, acoustic guitar and upright bass.
my preamps are humble and will remain so for a while. please try to
stay on topic with your reply and please do not answer my question with
more questions. i am not a pro and have no aspirations to become one.
just want to make decent recordings.
how about the ev re-20 for example?
tia,
mcnewsxp

I know it's not the world class name brand, but my swiss army mic is
the CAD M179. I bought one for simple experimentation, and after
trying it in many situations, I got rid of my AKG 414s. The 414s are
awesome mics, but the M179s seem to fit a few more options and cost
much less. I have more expensive mics that do much better at one or
two jobs, but I'll always keep a pair of M179s around.

Don't get me wrong, CAD makes some mics that aren't worth the shipping,
but the M179 is a good all purpose deal.

One man's opinion,
Doc Weaver

[Roy W. Rising]

"mcnews" wrote:
i'd like a pros opinion with much experience with many mics to off er
their opinion on the best all purpose mic in the $400-900 range. i
will be using it mostly for vocals, acoustic guitar and upright bass.
my preamps are humble and will remain so for a while. please try to
stay on topic with your reply and please do not answer my question with
more questions. i am not a pro and have no aspirations to become one.
just want to make decent recordings.
how about the ev re-20 for example?
tia,
mcnewsxp

You can't go wrong with the EV RE20. For even less, find and EV RE15 on
eBay. It's supercardioid, smaller and just as flat, maybe flatter.

--
~ Roy
"It's NOT the mic, it's NOT the preamp!"

[Roy W. Rising]

(Scott Dorsey) wrote:

You should also have an EV 635A and an SM-57 in the closet somewhere.
Both are very highly colored, but they are useful colorations and they
don't cost much money. Don't spend more than $50 for a used 635A.
--scott

Scott ~ The EV 635A is anything BUT "highly colored"! It's quite flat,
with a smooth 3 dB (max) rise between 2 KHz and 12 KHz. The HF and LF are
intentionally rolled down outside the voice range.

--
~ Roy
"It's NOT the mic, it's NOT the preamp!"

[Scott Dorsey]

Roy W. Rising wrote:
(Scott Dorsey) wrote:

You should also have an EV 635A and an SM-57 in the closet somewhere.
Both are very highly colored, but they are useful colorations and they
don't cost much money. Don't spend more than $50 for a used 635A.

Scott ~ The EV 635A is anything BUT "highly colored"! It's quite flat,
with a smooth 3 dB (max) rise between 2 KHz and 12 KHz. The HF and LF are
intentionally rolled down outside the voice range.

I'd consider that extreme roll-off on the ends to be "highly colored."
It can be a very powerful tool, though.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[mcnews]

or even Rode NT1-A

[hank alrich]

mcnews wrote:

i'd like a pros opinion with much experience with many mics to off er
their opinion on the best all purpose mic in the $400-900 range. i
will be using it mostly for vocals, acoustic guitar and upright bass.
my preamps are humble and will remain so for a while. please try to
stay on topic with your reply and please do not answer my question with
more questions.

I see, you're not a pro, but you want to ask some pros a question and
tell them how to answer it...

i am not a pro and have no aspirations to become one.
just want to make decent recordings.
how about the ev re-20 for example?

Won't work so well with a ****ty preamp. Perahps you could \have told
us what preamp you have. In most cases getting a decent preamp before
one starts buying more mics makes sense, just so you can find out what
your mics sound like into something better than what you have.

An RNP from FMR Audio doesn't cost much more than an RE20. An RE20 isn't
so much fun into a Mackie or Behringer kinda preamp. An SM57 into the
RNP is better, etc.

--
ha
"Iraq" is Arabic for "Vietnam"

[mcnews]

hank alrich wrote:
mcnews wrote:

i'd like a pros opinion with much experience with many mics to off er
their opinion on the best all purpose mic in the $400-900 range. i
will be using it mostly for vocals, acoustic guitar and upright bass.
my preamps are humble and will remain so for a while. please try to
stay on topic with your reply and please do not answer my question with
more questions.

I see, you're not a pro, but you want to ask some pros a question and
tell them how to answer it...

i'm not a pro engineer, but i have been a pro musician and i have been
hanging around this group enough to watch threads go into crap land in
terms of useful info verses i know more than you know info.
if my questions looks too dumb to you to grant a simple answer then let
it pass.


i am not a pro and have no aspirations to become one.
just want to make decent recordings.
how about the ev re-20 for example?

Won't work so well with a ****ty preamp. Perahps you could \have told
us what preamp you have. In most cases getting a decent preamp before
one starts buying more mics makes sense, just so you can find out what
your mics sound like into something better than what you have.

An RNP from FMR Audio doesn't cost much more than an RE20. An RE20 isn't
so much fun into a Mackie or Behringer kinda preamp. An SM57 into the
RNP is better, etc.


i use the ****ty ART DSP, TSP, Tubepac and the Behringer T1953.
budget will not permit an upgrade at this juncture.
i have SM57s SM58s, a couple of Behringer condensors, and an AKG C3000.
i am looking for a decent mic for vox.
how complicated and ambiguous is that............?

[Roy W. Rising]

"mcnews" wrote:

i use the ****ty ART DSP, TSP, Tubepac and the Behringer T1953.
budget will not permit an upgrade at this juncture.
i have SM57s SM58s, a couple of Behringer condensors, and an AKG C3000.
i am looking for a decent mic for vox.
how complicated and ambiguous is that............?

I've recorded some of the biggest names in the music world using an EV
635A. For general purposese, I suggest the EV RE20. I have friends with
"s____" Behringer mixers making good money recording voice from EV RE55s.
The following say a lot:

--
~ Roy
"It's NOT the mic, it's NOT the preamp!"

[Steve King]

"mcnews" wrote in message
oups.com...

hank alrich wrote:
mcnews wrote:

i'd like a pros opinion with much experience with many mics to off er
their opinion on the best all purpose mic in the $400-900 range. i
will be using it mostly for vocals, acoustic guitar and upright bass.
my preamps are humble and will remain so for a while. please try to
stay on topic with your reply and please do not answer my question with
more questions.

I see, you're not a pro, but you want to ask some pros a question and
tell them how to answer it...

i'm not a pro engineer, but i have been a pro musician and i have been
hanging around this group enough to watch threads go into crap land in
terms of useful info verses i know more than you know info.
if my questions looks too dumb to you to grant a simple answer then let
it pass.


i am not a pro and have no aspirations to become one.
just want to make decent recordings.
how about the ev re-20 for example?

Won't work so well with a ****ty preamp. Perahps you could \have told
us what preamp you have. In most cases getting a decent preamp before
one starts buying more mics makes sense, just so you can find out what
your mics sound like into something better than what you have.

An RNP from FMR Audio doesn't cost much more than an RE20. An RE20 isn't
so much fun into a Mackie or Behringer kinda preamp. An SM57 into the
RNP is better, etc.


i use the ****ty ART DSP, TSP, Tubepac and the Behringer T1953.
budget will not permit an upgrade at this juncture.
i have SM57s SM58s, a couple of Behringer condensors, and an AKG C3000.
i am looking for a decent mic for vox.
how complicated and ambiguous is that............?

Less ambiguous than, "i will be using it mostly for vocals, acoustic guitar
and upright bass." I'm voting for the AT2020. Love the RE20, but like a
mic that I like even more for voice, the Shure SM7, it requires about 10 db
more gain that your typical condenser mic. Many pre-amps cannot deliver
that extra gain without adding an unacceptable amount of noise. Can yours?
I don't know cuz I haven't used them. But, I do know that running an RE20
or a Shure SM7 through a Mackie board recording a softer voice (another
thing we don't know about you that might affect the recommendation) takes
the Mackie about to the limit. AT2020, therefore, is the safest bet IMO.

Steve King

[hank alrich]

mcnews wrote:

i use the ****ty ART DSP, TSP, Tubepac and the Behringer T1953.
budget will not permit an upgrade at this juncture.
i have SM57s SM58s, a couple of Behringer condensors, and an AKG C3000.
i am looking for a decent mic for vox.
how complicated and ambiguous is that............?

Why would you seek to spend twice the cost of an RNP on a vocal mic
that'll you'll plug into a lousy preamp? I'm not trying to be an asshole
(I am, in fact, an asshole - I don't even need to try), but I am trying
to get you to realize that whatever mic you get is going to be
compromised by the preamp of your choice. Have you heard an SM57 through
an RNP? If not, looking to spend nearly a grand on a mic you expect is
going to make a big difference is not sensible given the rest of your
chain, in my own arrogant opinion. An RNP _will_ make a big difference
to all the mics you already have, and you'd still have half your budget
for another mic.

--
ha
"Iraq" is Arabic for "Vietnam"

[thepaulthomas]

mcnews wrote:
i use the ****ty ART DSP, TSP, Tubepac and the Behringer T1953.
budget will not permit an upgrade at this juncture.

Sure it will. You've stated that you have up to $900 at your disposal
so you need to carefully consider the entire signal path, all the way
from the mic to your speakers. It won't do much good to spend a
disproportionate amount of money in just one particular category. You
might be better off spreading that $400-$900 across a few areas (better
speakers, better preamps, etc.). Do more research and ask more
questions in a variety or pro audio forums and be sure to accurately
describe all of the components in your signal path.

I suggest looking for a used Symetrix SX-202 preamp or any 1980's
model Yamaha mixer. Mic's worth considering include an older model
Sennheiser MD-421-U5 and, dare I say it, a used Peavey PVM-520. Either
of those preamps options along with one of those mic's will only set
you back about $350-$400 and will likely be a decent step up from your
current gear.

[Agent 86]

On Fri, 19 Jan 2007 23:44:52 +0000, hank alrich wrote:

mcnews wrote:

i use the ****ty ART DSP, TSP, Tubepac and the Behringer T1953.
budget will not permit an upgrade at this juncture.
i have SM57s SM58s, a couple of Behringer condensors, and an AKG C3000.
i am looking for a decent mic for vox.
how complicated and ambiguous is that............?

Why would you seek to spend twice the cost of an RNP on a vocal mic
that'll you'll plug into a lousy preamp? I'm not trying to be an asshole
(I am, in fact, an asshole - I don't even need to try), but I am trying
to get you to realize that whatever mic you get is going to be
compromised by the preamp of your choice. Have you heard an SM57 through
an RNP? If not, looking to spend nearly a grand on a mic you expect is
going to make a big difference is not sensible given the rest of your
chain, in my own arrogant opinion. An RNP _will_ make a big difference
to all the mics you already have, and you'd still have half your budget
for another mic.

The asshole's right (sorry Hank, you asked for it).

What he forgot to mention is that you can get both an RE20 (which is
widely available far below MSRP) *AND* an RNP and only stretch your stated
budget a tiny bit.

But I'd still recommend you get the RNP first and try it out with your 57.

[Ty Ford]

On Fri, 19 Jan 2007 08:24:02 -0500, mcnews wrote
(in article .com):

i'd like a pros opinion with much experience with many mics to off er
their opinion on the best all purpose mic in the $400-900 range. i
will be using it mostly for vocals, acoustic guitar and upright bass.
my preamps are humble and will remain so for a while. please try to
stay on topic with your reply and please do not answer my question with
more questions. i am not a pro and have no aspirations to become one.
just want to make decent recordings.
how about the ev re-20 for example?
tia,
mcnewsxp


Audio Technica AT4050; three patterns, nice neutral sound.

Regards,

Ty Ford

--Audio Equipment Reviews Audio Production Services
Acting and Voiceover Demos http://www.tyford.com
Guitar player?:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4RZJ9MptZmU

[John Albert]

hank wrote:
Why would you seek to spend twice the cost of an RNP on a vocal mic that'll
you'll plug into a lousy preamp? I'm not trying to be an asshole (I am, in
fact, an asshole - I don't even need to try), but I am trying to get you to
realize that whatever mic you get is going to be compromised by the preamp of
your choice. Have you heard an SM57 through an RNP? If not, looking to spend
nearly a grand on a mic you expect is going to make a big difference is not
sensible given the rest of your chain, in my own arrogant opinion. An RNP
_will_ make a big difference to all the mics you already have, and you'd still
have half your budget for another mic.

Hank, I assume you've used an RNP with various mics (my assumption might very
well be wrong).

If that's the case, have you discovered any mics that seem to work particulary
well with the RNP for "acoustic music" situations?

It's possible that the RNP is transparent enough so that my question has no relevance.

I have an RNP (bought after hearing good things about it in this group)... and
although I have a couple of mics that work OK with it, I might like one or
two more (I don't have the ability to do a lot of auditioning before I buy).

Thanks,
- John

[anahata]

John Albert wrote:
hank wrote:
[snip]
... Have you heard an SM57 through an RNP?
[snip]

Hank, I assume you've used an RNP with various mics (my assumption might very
well be wrong).

If that's the case, have you discovered any mics that seem to work particulary
well with the RNP for "acoustic music" situations?

Several people have discovered the RNP works exceptionally well on a
SM57, (e.g. see Harvey Gerst on http://www.mojopie.com/rnp.html). Hank's
suggestion quoted above was far from random.

--
Anahata
-+- http://www.treewind.co.uk
Home: 01638 720444 Mob: 07976 263827

[mcnews]

On Jan 19, 6:44 pm, (hank alrich) wrote:
mcnews wrote:
i use the ****ty ART DSP, TSP, Tubepac and the Behringer T1953.
budget will not permit an upgrade at this juncture.
i have SM57s SM58s, a couple of Behringer condensors, and an AKG C3000.
i am looking for a decent mic for vox.
how complicated and ambiguous is that............?Why would you seek to spend twice the cost of an RNP on a vocal mic
that'll you'll plug into a lousy preamp? I'm not trying to be an asshole
(I am, in fact, an asshole - I don't even need to try), but I am trying
to get you to realize that whatever mic you get is going to be
compromised by the preamp of your choice. Have you heard an SM57 through
an RNP? If not, looking to spend nearly a grand on a mic you expect is
going to make a big difference is not sensible given the rest of your
chain, in my own arrogant opinion. An RNP _will_ make a big difference
to all the mics you already have, and you'd still have half your budget
for another mic.

--
guess that does make sense.
i'll head over to atlanta pro audio next week for a demo.

[Mike Rivers]

mcnews wrote:
i'd like a pros opinion with much experience with many mics to off er
their opinion on the best all purpose mic in the $400-900 range.

Oh, my, there must be a hundred of them, all indistinguishable from the
best. See what your firendly local dealer (Guitar Center is not
friendly when it comes to microphones so they don't count unless you
have a VERY FRIENDLY personal salesman) sells, buy something, and
record with it for a week or two. If you don't like it, return it and
try something else. If you like it, that should nail your decision. It
might not be the best, but if it's good enough to make you happy, use
it.

My most recent experience with a mic in that price range was with the
CAD Trion 6000 (solid state) and 8000 (tube) mics. They both sounded
good enough to use any place that I'd use a U87, but that's just me and
my U87. And I don't mean to imply that either or both sounded just like
a U87, just that I could get a workable sound with them any place where
a U87 was a bad idea.

Scott Dorsey will tell you that using a U87 is almost always a bad idea
when you could use a nice, flat B&K or Josephson, but that's just
another opinion.

[Andre Majorel]

On 2007-01-19, hank alrich wrote:
mcnews wrote:

i'd like a pros opinion with much experience with many mics to off er
their opinion on the best all purpose mic in the $400-900 range. i
will be using it mostly for vocals, acoustic guitar and upright bass.
my preamps are humble and will remain so for a while. please try to
stay on topic with your reply and please do not answer my question
with more questions.

I see, you're not a pro, but you want to ask some pros a question and
tell them how to answer it...

That's the thing, you see. Being good at X does not necessarily
make you good at giving useful answers to questions on X.

--
André Majorel URL:http://www.teaser.fr/~amajorel/
(Counterfeit: )
First rule of Usenet : if we don't have an answer, it's not a
good question.

[Roy W. Rising]

"mcnews" wrote:

guess that does make sense.
i'll head over to atlanta pro audio next week for a demo.

A "Fool and his money" are soon to be parted. It's sad.

--
~ Roy
"It's NOT the mic, it's NOT the preamp!"

[hank alrich]

anahata wrote:

John Albert wrote:
hank wrote:
[snip]
... Have you heard an SM57 through an RNP?
[snip]

Hank, I assume you've used an RNP with various mics (my assumption might
very well be wrong).

If that's the case, have you discovered any mics that seem to work
particulary well with the RNP for "acoustic music" situations?

Several people have discovered the RNP works exceptionally well on a
SM57, (e.g. see Harvey Gerst on http://www.mojopie.com/rnp.html). Hank's
suggestion quoted above was far from random.

McQ went after that and nailed it. Facing reality, people paying
attention and who have hooked SM57's to good pres with transformer front
ends realize that the SM57 can deliver nicely in some contexts. Mark's
challenge was getting that without input iron, which would have driven
the cost above his target.

--
ha
"Iraq" is Arabic for "Vietnam"

[hank alrich]

Roy W. Rising wrote:

"mcnews" wrote:

guess that does make sense.
i'll head over to atlanta pro audio next week for a demo.

A "Fool and his money" are soon to be parted. It's sad.

Roy, the guy wants to drop $900 on a mic. I ask you again, have _you_
ever used an RNP? I have, and compared it to both low end (Mackie
original 1202), middling (Mackie Onyx) and very good (Millennia and
Great River MP2-MH) preamps. The Mackies were not in the running, at
all. Neither are the pres in my A&H 2200.

Why spend twice the cost of a decent preamp on a mic that one will then
connect to a truly mediocre preamp? Please explain how that makes sense.
An RNP is half his budget. I may have saved him almost half a grand.

When you were mixing for bigtime broadcast, how many Mackies were in the
suite? How many Behringers?

--
ha
"Iraq" is Arabic for "Vietnam"

[Roy W. Rising]

(hank alrich) wrote:
Roy W. Rising wrote:

"mcnews" wrote:

guess that does make sense.
i'll head over to atlanta pro audio next week for a demo.

A "Fool and his money" are soon to be parted. It's sad.

Roy, the guy wants to drop $900 on a mic. I ask you again, have _you_
ever used an RNP? I have, and compared it to both low end (Mackie
original 1202), middling (Mackie Onyx) and very good (Millennia and
Great River MP2-MH) preamps. The Mackies were not in the running, at
all. Neither are the pres in my A&H 2200.

Why spend twice the cost of a decent preamp on a mic that one will then
connect to a truly mediocre preamp? Please explain how that makes sense.
An RNP is half his budget. I may have saved him almost half a grand.

When you were mixing for bigtime broadcast, how many Mackies were in the
suite? How many Behringers?

I guess it comes down to this: What, *exactly*, will a high-end
preamplifier do that the chips in lower cost mixers will not? I do not
refer to the added bells and whistles plus booster and/or line amplifier
that comes with the package ... just the preamplifier. Nor do I refer to a
few dB difference in noise or dynamic range, or a few microseconds
difference in transient response.

--
~ Roy
"It's NOT the mic, it's NOT the preamp!"

[Paul Stamler]

"Roy W. Rising" wrote in message
...
(hank alrich) wrote:
Why spend twice the cost of a decent preamp on a mic that one will then
connect to a truly mediocre preamp? Please explain how that makes sense.
An RNP is half his budget. I may have saved him almost half a grand.

When you were mixing for bigtime broadcast, how many Mackies were in the
suite? How many Behringers?

I guess it comes down to this: What, *exactly*, will a high-end
preamplifier do that the chips in lower cost mixers will not? I do not
refer to the added bells and whistles plus booster and/or line amplifier
that comes with the package ... just the preamplifier. Nor do I refer to
a
few dB difference in noise or dynamic range, or a few microseconds
difference in transient response.

In this case, the OP is contemplating moving up from an ART and a Behringer
to an RNP. The question is not what the better preamp will do that the
cheapies won't. The question is, rather, what the better preamp WON'T do
that the cheaper preamps will. The answer is that it won't add the really
nasty high-order distortions that make cheap preamps unpleasant.

I've looked at the distortion spectra from cheap preamps, and they almost
invariably have lots of high-order distortion products. I've looked at the
spectra from better preamps, and, mostly, they don't.

Peace,
Paul

[hank alrich]

Roy W. Rising wrote:

(hank alrich) wrote:
Roy W. Rising wrote:

"mcnews" wrote:

guess that does make sense.
i'll head over to atlanta pro audio next week for a demo.

A "Fool and his money" are soon to be parted. It's sad.

Roy, the guy wants to drop $900 on a mic. I ask you again, have _you_
ever used an RNP? I have, and compared it to both low end (Mackie
original 1202), middling (Mackie Onyx) and very good (Millennia and
Great River MP2-MH) preamps. The Mackies were not in the running, at
all. Neither are the pres in my A&H 2200.

Why spend twice the cost of a decent preamp on a mic that one will then
connect to a truly mediocre preamp? Please explain how that makes sense.
An RNP is half his budget. I may have saved him almost half a grand.

When you were mixing for bigtime broadcast, how many Mackies were in the
suite? How many Behringers?

I guess it comes down to this: What, *exactly*, will a high-end
preamplifier do that the chips in lower cost mixers will not? I do not
refer to the added bells and whistles plus booster and/or line amplifier
that comes with the package ... just the preamplifier. Nor do I refer to a
few dB difference in noise or dynamic range, or a few microseconds
difference in transient response.

Run an RNP alongside a Mackie and I doubt you will miss the difference.

There are situations where a "few dB" of noise makes a big difference,
as with mics like the Beyer M160's, which have a teensy little output,
and which sometimes want more gain than is to be found in _any_ of the
low priced spread pres, unless you wanted the sound of fries along with
the source. Even the MD441 and the RE20 often benefit from more gain
than I want to ask from my Mackie or A&H.

What I get personally, even in non demanding situations, from the better
preamps is a greater sense of the reality of the source, something akin
to a three-dimensional reality instead of merely getting a
two-dimensional representation.

I have suggested to several friends who've asked me what mic to get, and
who were budgeting two or three times the price of an RNP for that mic,
that they get an RNP first, and then see how they feel about their mics.
So far every one of those has come back with sincere appreciation for
the advice. One of them is now, two years later, starting to get some
better mics. The others no longer feel they need better mics.

--
ha
"Iraq" is Arabic for "Vietnam"

[Roy W. Rising]

"Paul Stamler" wrote:
"Roy W. Rising" wrote in message
...
I guess it comes down to this: What, *exactly*, will a high-end
preamplifier do that the chips in lower cost mixers will not? I do not
refer to the added bells and whistles plus booster and/or line
amplifier that comes with the package ... just the preamplifier. Nor
do I refer to
a
few dB difference in noise or dynamic range, or a few microseconds
difference in transient response.

In this case, the OP is contemplating moving up from an ART and a
Behringer to an RNP. The question is not what the better preamp will do
that the cheapies won't. The question is, rather, what the better preamp
WON'T do that the cheaper preamps will. The answer is that it won't add
the really nasty high-order distortions that make cheap preamps
unpleasant.

I've looked at the distortion spectra from cheap preamps, and they almost
invariably have lots of high-order distortion products. I've looked at
the spectra from better preamps, and, mostly, they don't.

Peace,
Paul

Ah, so it's the quality of distortion! I never used a preamp to add
distortion, so I guess I know not whereof I speak. Maybe Aphex' Marvin
Caesar has "made a lot of money on distortion", but I've made a lot of
money avoiding or getting rid of it.

--
~ Roy
"It's NOT the mic, it's NOT the preamp!"

[Roy W. Rising]

(hank alrich) wrote:
Roy W. Rising wrote:

I guess it comes down to this: What, *exactly*, will a high-end
preamplifier do that the chips in lower cost mixers will not? I do not
refer to the added bells and whistles plus booster and/or line
amplifier that comes with the package ... just the preamplifier. Nor
do I refer to a few dB difference in noise or dynamic range, or a few
microseconds difference in transient response.

Run an RNP alongside a Mackie and I doubt you will miss the difference.

There are situations where a "few dB" of noise makes a big difference,
as with mics like the Beyer M160's, which have a teensy little output,
and which sometimes want more gain than is to be found in _any_ of the
low priced spread pres, unless you wanted the sound of fries along with
the source. Even the MD441 and the RE20 often benefit from more gain
than I want to ask from my Mackie or A&H.

I did not mention gain.

What I get personally, even in non demanding situations, from the better
preamps is a greater sense of the reality of the source, something akin
to a three-dimensional reality instead of merely getting a
two-dimensional representation.

"Sense of reality" is not a technical term. Subjectively, I prefer
honey-mustard dressing to ranch. The lettuce, however, must taste like
lettuce! ;-p

--
~ Roy
"It's NOT the mic, it's NOT the preamp!"

[[email protected]]

mcnews wrote:
hank alrich wrote:
mcnews wrote:

i'd like a pros opinion with much experience with many mics to off er
their opinion on the best all purpose mic in the $400-900 range. i
will be using it mostly for vocals, acoustic guitar and upright bass.
my preamps are humble and will remain so for a while. please try to
stay on topic with your reply and please do not answer my question with
more questions.

An RNP from FMR Audio doesn't cost much more than an RE20. An RE20 isn't
so much fun into a Mackie or Behringer kinda preamp. An SM57 into the
RNP is better, etc.


i use the ****ty ART DSP, TSP, Tubepac and the Behringer T1953.
budget will not permit an upgrade at this juncture.
i have SM57s SM58s, a couple of Behringer condensors, and an AKG C3000.
i am looking for a decent mic for vox.
how complicated and ambiguous is that............?

You would indeed benefit from a better preamp than you currently have
at your disposal. The suggestion for the FMR RNP is a good one. Even a
Symetrix 302 (latest version has INA103 chips, approximately last 12~18
months now) at $280 would be a big improvement. You might be pleasantly
surprised at what you hear from your present collection of mics. Adding
an RE20 would also be a good move. It works well for voice over,
vocals, kick, and often a reasonable choice for other instruments. You
won't regret having one of those in your mic locker.

bobs

Bob Smith
BS Studios
we organize chaos
http://www.bsstudios.com

[Jake Saliba]

Ebay is your friend. If you really bide your time on ebay, you should
be able to get both an RNP and an RE-20 on ebay for $900. I did.
Also, someone mentioned an AT-4050. Also a great mic. Very versatile
for a condenser. I got mine under $400 on ebay. So you should
definately be able to get an RNP and either an RE-20 or an AT-4050 and
stay within budget.

Jake


mcnews wrote:
i'd like a pros opinion with much experience with many mics to off er
their opinion on the best all purpose mic in the $400-900 range. i
will be using it mostly for vocals, acoustic guitar and upright bass.
my preamps are humble and will remain so for a while. please try to
stay on topic with your reply and please do not answer my question with
more questions. i am not a pro and have no aspirations to become one.
just want to make decent recordings.
how about the ev re-20 for example?
tia,
mcnewsxp

[WillStG]

Ty Ford wrote:
On Fri, 19 Jan 2007 08:24:02 -0500, mcnews wrote
(in article .com):

i'd like a pros opinion with much experience with many mics to off er
their opinion on the best all purpose mic in the $400-900 range. i
will be using it mostly for vocals, acoustic guitar and upright bass.
my preamps are humble and will remain so for a while. please try to
stay on topic with your reply and please do not answer my question with
more questions. i am not a pro and have no aspirations to become one.
just want to make decent recordings.
how about the ev re-20 for example?
tia,
mcnewsxp


Audio Technica AT4050; three patterns, nice neutral sound.

Regards,

Ty Ford

When someone asks about an "all purpose mic", depending on your
work situation different people think of different things. Were I
buying a closet of studio recording mics, the "all purpose mics" are
the utility players I would think of that are pretty good and could
cover a number of bases when I've used all the best 1st tier mics
already. If you mean a desert island" mic, one mic to record
everything, many who have worked in Radio or TV will tell you about an
SM7 or RE20. Because out on that "desert island" with only a couple of
mics to choose from at one time or another, they made the things work
and have gotten good results. They are rugged, and can take high signal
levels from really loud guys or kick drums, and even say Branford
Marsalis has had riders that specify a couple of RE20's for his Soprano
sax.

But I like Ty's suggestion of the 4050 and Jay suggesting the 414
for studio recording, an "all purpose" utility for me would mean a
multipattern mic that I could add a second mic and have stereo. Stereo
for Overheads on drums, on a guitar or some congas, maybe throw them up
over a piano. For that or for room mics, having a choice of omni,
figure 8 or cardiod is useful. Stereo with figure 8's/Blumlein stereo
is nice to reject noise in a room, a cardiod and a figure for M/S
stereo recording is a wonderful method for lots of things, and single
mics in figure 8 are great when you need a narrow pattern to reject
say, an acoustic guitar when you are recording a singer/songwriter.
Spaced omni if the space sounds good enough or if you are close enough
- well I personally love omni mics, having used omni lavs so much in my
career that I think you can do a lot with them to capture a live fell,
when you're used to using them.

The 414's are cheap enough used these days, but you do need to
back them off your sources a bit more than you might with other mics,
or they can get gritty too close. But a great sleep mic would be a
used multipattern Beyerdynamic MC 740, or the cardiod only version
MC834. The MC740 does M/S very very well, and it's a great vocal mic
as well.

Will Miho
NY TV/Audio Post/Music/Live Sound Guy
"The large print giveth and the small print taketh away..." Tom Waits

[Paul Stamler]

"Roy W. Rising" wrote in message
...
In this case, the OP is contemplating moving up from an ART and a
Behringer to an RNP. The question is not what the better preamp will do
that the cheapies won't. The question is, rather, what the better preamp
WON'T do that the cheaper preamps will. The answer is that it won't add
the really nasty high-order distortions that make cheap preamps
unpleasant.

I've looked at the distortion spectra from cheap preamps, and they
almost
invariably have lots of high-order distortion products. I've looked at
the spectra from better preamps, and, mostly, they don't.

Peace,
Paul

Ah, so it's the quality of distortion! I never used a preamp to add
distortion, so I guess I know not whereof I speak. Maybe Aphex' Marvin
Caesar has "made a lot of money on distortion", but I've made a lot of
money avoiding or getting rid of it.

Read what I wrote again. One reason people buy better preamps is the lack of
distortion products that are annoying. LACK.

Peace,
Paul

[Roy W. Rising]

"Paul Stamler" wrote:
"Roy W. Rising" wrote in message

Ah, so it's the quality of distortion! I never used a preamp to add
distortion, so I guess I know not whereof I speak. Maybe Aphex' Marvin
Caesar has "made a lot of money on distortion", but I've made a lot of
money avoiding or getting rid of it.

Read what I wrote again. One reason people buy better preamps is the lack
of distortion products that are annoying. LACK.

Peace,
Paul

OK, I've read it again. Oh. I get it. Buy a preamp with distortion
products that don't annoy. But ... why work in the distortion region in
the first place?

--
~ Roy
"It's NOT the mic, it's NOT the preamp!"

[Scott Dorsey]

Roy W. Rising wrote:

OK, I've read it again. Oh. I get it. Buy a preamp with distortion
products that don't annoy. But ... why work in the distortion region in
the first place?

Because there is no non-distortion region. There are only various regions
of different distortion.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[Paul Stamler]

"Roy W. Rising" wrote in message
...
"Paul Stamler" wrote:
"Roy W. Rising" wrote in message

Ah, so it's the quality of distortion! I never used a preamp to add
distortion, so I guess I know not whereof I speak. Maybe Aphex'
Marvin
Caesar has "made a lot of money on distortion", but I've made a lot of
money avoiding or getting rid of it.

Read what I wrote again. One reason people buy better preamps is the
lack
of distortion products that are annoying. LACK.

Peace,
Paul

OK, I've read it again. Oh. I get it. Buy a preamp with distortion
products that don't annoy. But ... why work in the distortion region in
the first place?

You are always working in the distortion region; there are no preamps out
there that don't create distortion. The point is to keep the level of
annoying distortion products below audibility. Cheap preamps don't do that
very well, expecially at higher gains. Good preamps, operated properly,
don't produce distortion that is audible.

Peace,
Paul

[hank alrich]

Roy W. Rising wrote:

"Paul Stamler" wrote:
"Roy W. Rising" wrote in message

Ah, so it's the quality of distortion! I never used a preamp to add
distortion, so I guess I know not whereof I speak. Maybe Aphex' Marvin
Caesar has "made a lot of money on distortion", but I've made a lot of
money avoiding or getting rid of it.

Read what I wrote again. One reason people buy better preamps is the lack
of distortion products that are annoying. LACK.

Peace,
Paul

OK, I've read it again. Oh. I get it. Buy a preamp with distortion
products that don't annoy. But ... why work in the distortion region in
the first place?

All the cheap preamps offer distortion. The better preamps I have offer
much less distortion. There is no perfect signal path.

And note that zillions of recordings have been sold wherein the team
went wild distorting things. I am reminded of Zappa's story of taking a
cut he did early on with Beefheart to a record honcho who said the label
wouldn't touch it because the guitar was distorted. Now think how many
units have since been sold with distorted guitar sounds. And sometimes
the distortion at the source was aided and abetted in the mixing stage.

Should a photographer be allowed to use filters? People will choose
preamps to get what they're after. One will get a more accurate
recording in general using an RNP than a Mackie preamp.

Audition one of Grant Carpenter's Gordon Electronics preamps. It made
clean pres sound much less clean in comparison. Info at:

http://www.gordonaudio.com/

--
ha
"Iraq" is Arabic for "Vietnam"