Hi,
I'm not nearly educated in audio equipment and spent a lot of time reading
on the net only to be even more confused. My interest is in listening to
music, not home theater, but I'd like to try the SACD and DVD-A as more
music is released. Should I stick with stereo or look at multi-channel?

I'd also like to buy from a local store/dealer, but I really hate to walk
into a store and not have a clue as to what I should be looking at
especially when I see the prices on high end equipment, way out of my
league. Any recommendations in Northern NJ/NYC where I won't be wasting
their time with a $3k budget, that has a decent selection and salesman that
can explain features to an audio equipment novice? Right now all I want to
do is play CDs.

Generally, I purchase what you guys would probably call low end equipment
from an electronics store. I'd like to update my system but don't know if
spending $3k is going to get me any better sound than spending $1.5k at
Circuit City. My music tastes vary from classical to rock and just about
everything in between. I don't blast my music, like it at a comfortable
listening level.

Any suggestions on where to begin, maybe a good site or magazine
recommendation? Thanks.

Regards-Michael G.

Michael Gerbasio wrote:
Hi,
I'm not nearly educated in audio equipment and spent a lot of time reading
on the net only to be even more confused. My interest is in listening to
music, not home theater, but I'd like to try the SACD and DVD-A as more
music is released. Should I stick with stereo or look at multi-channel?

You might as well investigate multichannel, since with it,
you'll still have the stereo option as well, and msot SACDs and all DVD-As
these days include multichannel tracks and stereo tracks.
This assumes you ahve a place to put five small speakers (on stands
or wall mounted) and a subwoofer, and a spouse who's agreeable.

As far as A/V amps and players go, you should shop for features rather than sound,
since they're likely to sound very similar if not identical. Nowadays
you can get a 'universal' CD/DVD/DVD-A/SACD player for a few hundred bucks
(e.g. the recent model from Pioneer).
For DVD-A and SACD surround sound, the most important feature to have is proper
bass management, so that bass is rerouted from small speakers to the
subwoofer. Either your player or your receiver should have this.

Get your speaker wire
and interconnects at Radio Shack, there's no need *at all* for 'high end'
snobbery for those components.

Speakers are where you'll have to do the most auditioning for sound,
and will likely take up most of your budget. A good subwoofer alone
will set you back several hundred dollars, btw.

Just be aware that what you hear in the demo room won't necessarily
sound like what you hear at home, so always make sure there's a
return policy. And pay careful attention to speaker placement
and room treatment.

--
-S.

I'd suggest that you can buy $3k worth of very fine gear for far less
by purchasing used via one or more of the popular websites or even
ebay on a good day.

Knowing what gear to purchase is another matter.

Arguably one wants to look for gear that is objectively well engineered and
designed... how to recognize this type of gear is a bit more tricky, since
apparently every manufacturer claims to have done this, even if they
haven't.

I think that you want to aim for "separates" - amp, preamp, etc... that way
you have a path to upgrade incrementally, and more or less find your
way around without taking a single big hit at any point... especially in
amps and preamps, models from 10 years ago may have the "cachet"
and "big name recognition" reduced, but they are likely to work
just fine and do the same things as brand new sparkly units will.

If you ask on this newsgroup, you'll likely get a whole lot of free advice
on what makes for a well engineered and designed unit, and how to
recognize that, etc...

_-_-bear

Michael Gerbasio wrote:

Hi,
I'm not nearly educated in audio equipment and spent a lot of time reading
on the net only to be even more confused. My interest is in listening to
music, not home theater, but I'd like to try the SACD and DVD-A as more
music is released. Should I stick with stereo or look at multi-channel?

I'd also like to buy from a local store/dealer, but I really hate to walk
into a store and not have a clue as to what I should be looking at
especially when I see the prices on high end equipment, way out of my
league. Any recommendations in Northern NJ/NYC where I won't be wasting
their time with a $3k budget, that has a decent selection and salesman that
can explain features to an audio equipment novice? Right now all I want to
do is play CDs.

Generally, I purchase what you guys would probably call low end equipment
from an electronics store. I'd like to update my system but don't know if
spending $3k is going to get me any better sound than spending $1.5k at
Circuit City. My music tastes vary from classical to rock and just about
everything in between. I don't blast my music, like it at a comfortable
listening level.

Any suggestions on where to begin, maybe a good site or magazine
recommendation? Thanks.

Regards-Michael G.

In article zBK5b.264403$cF.82971@rwcrnsc53,
Michael Gerbasio wrote:
Hi,
I'm not nearly educated in audio equipment and spent a lot of time reading
on the net only to be even more confused. My interest is in listening to
music, not home theater, but I'd like to try the SACD and DVD-A as more
music is released. Should I stick with stereo or look at multi-channel?

My definition of decent begins encompasing a good proportion of equipment
once speakers with bass extension hit a street price arround $1.5-$2K a pair
(maybe $750-$1K for monitors and $1K for a sub-woofer), stereo amps at
$600-$1000 depending on size, and CD players arround $500. Obviously,
there are a few bad expensive pieces and good inexpensive ones.

If you share the same minimums and don't resort to used equipment (which
usually looses at least half its value), direct sales with lower markups
(there are companies which do all their sales via the Internet like
Norh and SV Subwoofers), or DIY (you can buy the plans to some top-notch
speakers and trade sweat equity for dollars), or DIY you can't fit
multi-channel into your budget without compromising on quality.

IMNSHO, the enjoyment from two decent channels clobber what you get from
six or eight poor ones even on movies. One friend tried to use the analogy
that he'd prefer a six pack over two beers; although given a choice between
six Keystone Lights and 0-2 Sammy Smiths I'd choose the later.

Generally, I purchase what you guys would probably call low end equipment
from an electronics store. I'd like to update my system but don't know if
spending $3k is going to get me any better sound than spending $1.5k at
Circuit City.

Assuming the bulk of the difference is spent on speakers, it should be
substantially better. Excessive allocation of funds to wires, amplification,
and source will greatly reduce the gains you get.

Any suggestions on where to begin, maybe a good site or magazine
recommendation?

Determine what your tastes in speakers are (warm/neutral; more or less
bass extension (this will interact less with a small room); direct radiating/
dipole/bipole), audition those that fit that description, and buy something
that makes the trade-offs you like.

Base your amplifier selection on the speakers - you'll need a beefier
amp to handle lower impedances and efficiencies.

Then find a source that sounds good + images well through that combination,
with variable outputs if you did not opt for an integrated amp.
--
a href="http://www.poohsticks.org/drew/"Home Page/a
The Congress shall assemble at least once in every Year, and such Meeting
shall be on the first Monday in December, unless they shall by Law appoint a
different Day.

I would stick with 2 channel, if for no other reason than
the quality of the gear can be better for the same cost,
i.e. you only need to by 2 speakers instead of 5, thus can
invest more in 2 good speakers instead of 5 fair speakers.

I perceive (this is my subjective view) is that SACD is winning
the SACD/DVD-A war, so could also consider an SACD/CD combo,
rather than a kitchen-sink player.

I generally agree with the comment on cables. Don't use 18 gauge
lamp cord, but no need to go hog-wild either.

/jim

Michael Gerbasio wrote:
Hi,
I'm not nearly educated in audio equipment and spent a lot of time reading
on the net only to be even more confused. My interest is in listening to
music, not home theater, but I'd like to try the SACD and DVD-A as more
music is released. Should I stick with stereo or look at multi-channel?

I'd also like to buy from a local store/dealer, but I really hate to walk
into a store and not have a clue as to what I should be looking at
especially when I see the prices on high end equipment, way out of my
league. Any recommendations in Northern NJ/NYC where I won't be wasting
their time with a $3k budget, that has a decent selection and salesman that
can explain features to an audio equipment novice? Right now all I want to
do is play CDs.

Generally, I purchase what you guys would probably call low end equipment
from an electronics store. I'd like to update my system but don't know if
spending $3k is going to get me any better sound than spending $1.5k at
Circuit City. My music tastes vary from classical to rock and just about
everything in between. I don't blast my music, like it at a comfortable
listening level.

Any suggestions on where to begin, maybe a good site or magazine
recommendation? Thanks.

Regards-Michael G.

(Bob Marcus)

...snips....

fully agreed with post

And don't let them sell you expensive wires.

True but you might not want to broach that topic before sealing a deal. Wires
and other high-margin accessories are common point of sale tools for putting
some foregone margin back into a deal where there is tremendous competition on
the main products.

If you reveal up-front or mid-story that you won't fall for the wire trick it
might compromise the quote on the primary stuff.

Thanks to everyone for the help, I appreciate the suggestions. So I'm going
to stick with two channels and go to AudioConnect in Verona.

Regards-Michael G.

"Jim Mauro" wrote in message
news:21x6b.282027$Oz4.73688@rwcrnsc54...
I would stick with 2 channel, if for no other reason than
the quality of the gear can be better for the same cost,
i.e. you only need to by 2 speakers instead of 5, thus can
invest more in 2 good speakers instead of 5 fair speakers.

I perceive (this is my subjective view) is that SACD is winning
the SACD/DVD-A war, so could also consider an SACD/CD combo,
rather than a kitchen-sink player.

I generally agree with the comment on cables. Don't use 18 gauge
lamp cord, but no need to go hog-wild either.

/jim

Michael Gerbasio wrote:
Hi,
I'm not nearly educated in audio equipment and spent a lot of time
reading
on the net only to be even more confused. My interest is in listening
to
music, not home theater, but I'd like to try the SACD and DVD-A as more
music is released. Should I stick with stereo or look at multi-channel?

I'd also like to buy from a local store/dealer, but I really hate to
walk
into a store and not have a clue as to what I should be looking at
especially when I see the prices on high end equipment, way out of my
league. Any recommendations in Northern NJ/NYC where I won't be wasting
their time with a $3k budget, that has a decent selection and salesman
that
can explain features to an audio equipment novice? Right now all I want
to
do is play CDs.

Generally, I purchase what you guys would probably call low end
equipment
from an electronics store. I'd like to update my system but don't know
if
spending $3k is going to get me any better sound than spending $1.5k at
Circuit City. My music tastes vary from classical to rock and just
about
everything in between. I don't blast my music, like it at a comfortable
listening level.

Any suggestions on where to begin, maybe a good site or magazine
recommendation? Thanks.

Regards-Michael G.

Hmm, try this:

Pioneer DV45A DVD-V / DVD-A / SACD player, $400 at Harvey Electronics, Sound
by Singer, and Lyric Hi-Fi
NAD T752 7.1 channel AV Receiver, $900 at Harvey Electronics, Sound by
Singer, and Lyric Hi-Fi
Athena Audition F2 front speakers, $600/pr at Best Buy, or online from Audio
Advisor
Athena Audition B1 rear speakers, $180/pr at Best Buy, or online from Audio
Advisor
Athena Audition C1 center speaker, $180 at Best Buy, or online from Audio
Advisor
Athena AS-P400 subwoofer, $400 at Best Buy, or online from Audio Advisor
Total $2660

Now you need 6 decent interconnects, an additional subwoofer interconnect,
and a bunch of speaker cable for $340. 10% of system budget for cables is
about right. I would recommend Straightwire products in you price range,
they have interconnects for around $20 per meter/pair that are decent, and
speaker cables that are a good value. They are available at Sound by
Singer. Just take in the lengths you need and your budget, and they should
be able to set you up.
AudioQuest also has some good low price cables in their line, and DH Labs
cables are a good value, but a little hard to find.

The NAD is an outstanding value, they have long been making medium price
components that sound far better than their price suggests. My entry into
good sound was an NAD 3020 integrated amp in 1981.

The Pioneer is the least expensive player that has both SACD and DVD-A done
properly, and is part of Pioneer's Elite series which tends to have better
build quality and sound than their consumer line. Pioneer also has an
SACD/DVD-A for under $200, but it uses DSP to convert the SACD signal into a
DVD-A signal, so they only needed to include one D/A conversion stage, and
you lose the SACD advantage of a simple D/A conversion process. Pioneer's
list for this item is $700, but nobody sells it for that.

Athena is part of Canada's API consortium, that includes the brands Mirage
and Energy. Athena was created to bring decent sounding speakers into the
budget market, and are a very good value. I have not listened to the
Athena's but I am a long time Mirage owner, and the Athena's have gotten
good reviews, so I believe they would be a good value. The F2 is on
Stereophile's recommended component list.

I have not dealt with Harvey Electronics, but I know Lyric and Singer are
both very good dealers that have been in New York for decades. They were
both dealers of ours when I was with California Audio Labs, and were among
the best of our dealers.
$3K is entry level for them, but it is not wasting their time, otherwise
they would not sell NAD. If either of them has a speaker recommendation
other than the Athena's, you should seriously consider it as long as it
stays within your budget.

If you go to Best Buy for the speakers, don't let them sell you anything
else.

Lyric Hi-Fi http://www.lyricusa.com/
Sound by Singer http://www.soundbysinger.com/Home4.html
Harvey Electronics http://www.harveyonline.com
NAD http://www.nadelectronics.com/
Pioneer
http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/pn..._35168,00.html
Athena http://www.athenaspeakers.com/
Straightwire http://www.straightwire.com/
DH Labs http://www.silversonic.com/

"Michael Gerbasio" wrote in message
news:zBK5b.264403$cF.82971@rwcrnsc53...
Hi,
I'm not nearly educated in audio equipment and spent a lot of time reading
on the net only to be even more confused. My interest is in listening to
music, not home theater, but I'd like to try the SACD and DVD-A as more
music is released. Should I stick with stereo or look at multi-channel?

I'd also like to buy from a local store/dealer, but I really hate to walk
into a store and not have a clue as to what I should be looking at
especially when I see the prices on high end equipment, way out of my
league. Any recommendations in Northern NJ/NYC where I won't be wasting
their time with a $3k budget, that has a decent selection and salesman
that
can explain features to an audio equipment novice? Right now all I want
to
do is play CDs.

Generally, I purchase what you guys would probably call low end equipment
from an electronics store. I'd like to update my system but don't know if
spending $3k is going to get me any better sound than spending $1.5k at
Circuit City. My music tastes vary from classical to rock and just about
everything in between. I don't blast my music, like it at a comfortable
listening level.

Any suggestions on where to begin, maybe a good site or magazine
recommendation? Thanks.

Regards-Michael G.

"Larry Hill" wrote in message
news:btYnb.45165$ao4.106478@attbi_s51...
Hmm, try this:

Pioneer DV45A DVD-V / DVD-A / SACD player, $400 at Harvey Electronics,
Sound
by Singer, and Lyric Hi-Fi
NAD T752 7.1 channel AV Receiver, $900 at Harvey Electronics, Sound by
Singer, and Lyric Hi-Fi
Athena Audition F2 front speakers, $600/pr at Best Buy, or online from
Audio
Advisor
Athena Audition B1 rear speakers, $180/pr at Best Buy, or online from
Audio
Advisor
Athena Audition C1 center speaker, $180 at Best Buy, or online from Audio
Advisor
Athena AS-P400 subwoofer, $400 at Best Buy, or online from Audio Advisor
Total $2660

Now you need 6 decent interconnects, an additional subwoofer interconnect,
and a bunch of speaker cable for $340. 10% of system budget for cables is
about right. I would recommend Straightwire products in you price range,
they have interconnects for around $20 per meter/pair that are decent, and
speaker cables that are a good value. They are available at Sound by
Singer. Just take in the lengths you need and your budget, and they should
be able to set you up.
AudioQuest also has some good low price cables in their line, and DH Labs
cables are a good value, but a little hard to find.

I would take a completely different route. First things first, decide how
committed you are to multi-channel sound. My suggestion would be to start
with a higher quality stereo system that allows for the possibility of
adding additional channels later on. Secondly, I'd strongly encourage you
to get full range main speakers thereby avoiding the need for a sub-woofer.
Lastly, this idea of spending 10% on your budget on cabling is utter
nonsense concocted by manufacturers and retailers. The better constructed
$20 interconnects and generic speaker wire from Radio Shack work as well as
the esoteric stuff.

As to components, I don't have any experience with the Pioneer player Larry
recommended, but it seems like a reasonable choice if you want both SACD and
DVD-A. Assuming you'll begin with stereo, spending half to two thirds of
your budget on main speakers puts you right in the $1,500 to $2,000 range,
where the best speaker values lie, imho.

Partial as I am to Paradigm, I'll suggest you check out the excellent Studio
60 and 100, priced at $1,500 and $2,000 respectively, although you can
generally find them discounted at either Rabson's Audio Video or Sixth
Avenue Electronics (both on Rt. 4 East in Paramus, NJ.) Other candidates
would be the PSB Straus (Silver or Gold), Vandersteen 2Ce and whatever
anyone else adds.

So assuming you spend $1,500 on speakers and $400 on a DVD/CD player, that
still leaves you a grand for amplification, and while the NAD is excellent
value for a receiver, you'd do much better with a stereo integrated such as
the Rotel RA-1070. It lists at $1,199, but you should be able to do better
shopping around. Also, you should be able to get a very good deal if you
buy the entire system; speakers, player and integrated, from a single
dealer. As it so happens, 6th Avenue carries all three brands (although
they may have been phasing out Rotel, I can't remember). Just don't let
them sell you any cables.

Down the road if you want to move to a multi-channel system, you can sell
the Rotel integrated, get a top flight receiver (I'd also suggest the Rotel
at between $1,600 and 1,800 depending on discounts) and add matching
speakers.

*snip*
"Michael Gerbasio" wrote in message
news:zBK5b.264403$cF.82971@rwcrnsc53...
Hi,
I'm not nearly educated in audio equipment and spent a lot of time
reading
on the net only to be even more confused. My interest is in listening
to
music, not home theater, but I'd like to try the SACD and DVD-A as more
music is released. Should I stick with stereo or look at multi-channel?

I'd also like to buy from a local store/dealer, but I really hate to
walk
into a store and not have a clue as to what I should be looking at
especially when I see the prices on high end equipment, way out of my
league. Any recommendations in Northern NJ/NYC where I won't be wasting
their time with a $3k budget, that has a decent selection and salesman
that
can explain features to an audio equipment novice? Right now all I want
to
do is play CDs.

Generally, I purchase what you guys would probably call low end
equipment
from an electronics store. I'd like to update my system but don't know
if
spending $3k is going to get me any better sound than spending $1.5k at
Circuit City. My music tastes vary from classical to rock and just
about
everything in between. I don't blast my music, like it at a comfortable
listening level.

Any suggestions on where to begin, maybe a good site or magazine
recommendation? Thanks.

Regards-Michael G.