At your stated price range, there are dozens of worthy speakers, none of
which are perfect. IMO there are only a few main attributes that define the
"sound" of a pair of speakers. 1. Smoothness of the speaker's frequency
response curve within its frequency response range. 2. It's frequency
response range. 3. It's dynamic range (ie. maximum spl)

If you were to plot those items against price, I believe that you find you
can only maximize 2 of those attributes without spending a small fortune.
For example, the Paradigm Studio 20 (min-monitor) will play reasonably
loudly, is extremely smooth and coherent but doesn't extend much 45Hz. The
Martin Logans extend a bit lower, but don't get congested and compressed at
higher volume.

My biased opinion as a very happy owner, would be to recommend the Paradigm
Studio 100s. They are as complete of a speaker as you'll find under $3,500
imho. (I got mine as demos for $1,400, ymmv.) Having said that, the
transparent magic of an electrostat is unrivalled on female vocals. Only
you can decide what you're willing to trade off for what.

"P and C" wrote in message
...
I hope I'm not being presumptuous by posting my question here, but I
didn't find a rec.audio.mid-end and the other rec.audio.* groups don't
appear to have much hi-fi discussion.

I am looking for a pair of speakers in the range of $1,000-$1,500. I
will only be using these for stereo music only, as I am now building a
dedicated system for music. What is the best pair of speakers you can
get for this much dough?

I don't live near a major city so I'm limited by what I can audition.
I have to be selective to avoid doing a lot of driving That is why
I'm asking all the experts here for recommendations

I have listened so far to the Mirage OMNI 260, and Martin Logans
Scenarios ($2,000 speakers reduced to $1,200 for clearance).

I found the imaging of the Mirage not as focused as I am used to,
probably as a result of its omnipolar tweeter technology.

There was a slight set up problem with the Martin Logans so I didn't
get a good chance to listen to them properly. However, they didn't
immediately grab my attention but I probably need to give them more
listening time.

Other speakers I'm considering right now are Joseph Audio RM7s (a
little outside of my budget, but hey, no harm in listening to them,
right?), and perhaps Paradigm.

I listened mostly to vocals accompanied by orchestra (Sarah Brightman,
Charlotte Church), jazz vocals with accompaniment (Diana Krall, Jane
Monheit - so ability to reproduce jazz piano accurately and a dynamic
bass (for the double-bass) are important attributes). Needless to
say, natural sounding voice is of paramount importance.

I also listen to some classical piano and classical orchestra.

I would appreciate any recommendations you guys have and what
amplification you think would make a good pairing. Thanks for any
feedback you can give.

Cheers.

I am looking for a pair of speakers in the range of $1,000-$1,500. I
will only be using these for stereo music only, as I am now building a
dedicated system for music. What is the best pair of speakers you can
get for this much dough?

I don't live near a major city so I'm limited by what I can audition.
I have to be selective to avoid doing a lot of driving That is why
I'm asking all the experts here for recommendations

I have listened so far to the Mirage OMNI 260, and Martin Logans
Scenarios ($2,000 speakers reduced to $1,200 for clearance).

I found the imaging of the Mirage not as focused as I am used to,
probably as a result of its omnipolar tweeter technology.

There was a slight set up problem with the Martin Logans so I didn't
get a good chance to listen to them properly. However, they didn't
immediately grab my attention but I probably need to give them more
listening time.

Other speakers I'm considering right now are Joseph Audio RM7s (a
little outside of my budget, but hey, no harm in listening to them,
right?), and perhaps Paradigm.


You might list the equipment you will be using with the speakers. In that price
range I think you will be hard pressed to get a better balanced speaker that
the Vandersteen 2ce Signature. They do very little wrong, and many things right
at that price range.

Have fun with the search.

P and C wrote:
I hope I'm not being presumptuous by posting my question here, but I
didn't find a rec.audio.mid-end and the other rec.audio.* groups don't
appear to have much hi-fi discussion.

Nipe. That's 'cause they're not moderated. Amazing what a group is
like when they are forced to behave and the spam and flames are filtered
out.

I am looking for a pair of speakers in the range of $1,000-$1,500. I
will only be using these for stereo music only, as I am now building a
dedicated system for music. What is the best pair of speakers you can
get for this much dough?

I have listened so far to the Mirage OMNI 260, and Martin Logans
Scenarios ($2,000 speakers reduced to $1,200 for clearance).

Um - nice price. Seriously. They require big amps, though - like
cinder block sized monoblocks or simmilar to drive properly.

Want 90% of the ML sound? Magnepan. That would be the #1 choice
in that price range. Of course, they require a decent sized room
and aren't terribly kid and cat friendly.

I found the imaging of the Mirage not as focused as I am used to,
probably as a result of its omnipolar tweeter technology.

It's overrated, IMO.

Other speakers I'm considering right now are Joseph Audio RM7s (a
little outside of my budget, but hey, no harm in listening to them,
right?), and perhaps Paradigm.

Check.

I listened mostly to vocals accompanied by orchestra (Sarah Brightman,
Charlotte Church), jazz vocals with accompaniment (Diana Krall, Jane
Monheit - so ability to reproduce jazz piano accurately and a dynamic
bass (for the double-bass) are important attributes). Needless to
say, natural sounding voice is of paramount importance.

Take a look at Magnepan and also Tannoy. Their Saturns are about as
good as conventional speakers get in the $1200-$1500 range.(Saturn 8)

Or, you can look at a pair of JBL 4410A monitors. Big, accurate
tanks just like you remember. I own a pair and they are very good
for the price.

I also listen to some classical piano and classical orchestra.

Jazz. Check. Vocals. Check. Bit of rock and classical and such. Check.

Magnepan. Clarity in the midrange that most speakers wish they could
match. The Martin Logans are better when properly set up - especially
at that insanely low price - so get them to set them up correctly.
Have them add in a subwoofer as well - blend it in as seamlessly as
possible.(same with the Magnepans if the smaller MMGs)

If you have a sub or don't care about deep bass, try the Monitor Audio Gold
10s. You can get them at the Good Guys for about $1500 a pair.

The Good Guys is not a high-end store, but don't let that scare you off. You
have 30 days to try out the speakers, which should give you plenty of time to
decide if they are right for you. Also, the Good Guys are running a 30+ month
no-interest special on all merchandise over $999, and they may be having a sale
on speakers at the same time.

Good luck!

I have a pair of Vandersteen 2Ce sigs and paid $800 used. I am very pleased
with the overall sound. Excellent soundstage and vocal range, strong bass and
the tweeter does little wrong. The do require some power, I am running them
bi-amped with 2 85 watt channels per speaker. not sure of the bi-amping is
what made a big difference over a single 85 watt channel but it did. Perhaps a
single 150-200 watt amp would do the same thing.

Jon
http://www.jonlayephotography.com

I have had speakers from B&W, Magnepan, Spica, Spendor, and Paradigm.

I like all of them except B&W, which I found too revealing,
particularly on female vocals, both pop and opera.

I'd shop for whatever's in your price range from these manufacturers.
The ones I've lived with longest are Maggies and Paradigms.

The most important thing: MAKE SURE YOU CAN RETURN ANY PIECE OF
EQUIPMENT FOR A FULL REFUND IF YOU DON'T LIKE HOW IT SOUNDS IN YOUR
HOME WITHIN A REASONABLE AMOUNT OF TIME.

Bruce gave you specific advice about Paradigms in your price range.
And Joe about Magnepans. Each of them has given you good advice.

(P and C) wrote in message ...
I hope I'm not being presumptuous by posting my question here, but I
didn't find a rec.audio.mid-end and the other rec.audio.* groups don't
appear to have much hi-fi discussion.

I am looking for a pair of speakers in the range of $1,000-$1,500. I
will only be using these for stereo music only, as I am now building a
dedicated system for music. What is the best pair of speakers you can
get for this much dough?

I don't live near a major city so I'm limited by what I can audition.
I have to be selective to avoid doing a lot of driving That is why
I'm asking all the experts here for recommendations

I have listened so far to the Mirage OMNI 260, and Martin Logans
Scenarios ($2,000 speakers reduced to $1,200 for clearance).

I found the imaging of the Mirage not as focused as I am used to,
probably as a result of its omnipolar tweeter technology.

There was a slight set up problem with the Martin Logans so I didn't
get a good chance to listen to them properly. However, they didn't
immediately grab my attention but I probably need to give them more
listening time.

Other speakers I'm considering right now are Joseph Audio RM7s (a
little outside of my budget, but hey, no harm in listening to them,
right?), and perhaps Paradigm.

I listened mostly to vocals accompanied by orchestra (Sarah Brightman,
Charlotte Church), jazz vocals with accompaniment (Diana Krall, Jane
Monheit - so ability to reproduce jazz piano accurately and a dynamic
bass (for the double-bass) are important attributes). Needless to
say, natural sounding voice is of paramount importance.

I also listen to some classical piano and classical orchestra.

I would appreciate any recommendations you guys have and what
amplification you think would make a good pairing. Thanks for any
feedback you can give.

Cheers.

Someone mentioned Vandersteen 2ce, and I have to agree that they are a fine
product at the price. However, I eventually sold them because they tended to
have a bit of a mid-rangey sound, the treble sounded a bit shut in, and the
bass was often a bit indistinct. As the Editors of Stereophile put it, the
Vandersteen 2ce doesn't do anything best, but does the least wrong across
the board in its price range. So it is a matter of whether one is willing to
trade something to get something else.

The speaker that has most impressed me is the Audio Physic Spark, at the
time (2 years ago), retailing new for $2750. If one could find a pair of
these used, I think they would be hard to beat. They also have introduced
less-expensive speakers. I would not buy a speaker without auditioning
Audio Physic if I could easily do so.

As far as electronics, Musical Fidelity produces a great product at the
price. A perfect match with the Spark, almost magic, to my ears. And all
this with $15 worth of cabling! (Don't spend any less on cables -- it's
just not worth it!:-)

Curt Simon


"P and C" wrote in message
...
I hope I'm not being presumptuous by posting my question here, but I
didn't find a rec.audio.mid-end and the other rec.audio.* groups don't
appear to have much hi-fi discussion.

I am looking for a pair of speakers in the range of $1,000-$1,500. I
will only be using these for stereo music only, as I am now building a
dedicated system for music. What is the best pair of speakers you can
get for this much dough?

I don't live near a major city so I'm limited by what I can audition.
I have to be selective to avoid doing a lot of driving That is why
I'm asking all the experts here for recommendations

I have listened so far to the Mirage OMNI 260, and Martin Logans
Scenarios ($2,000 speakers reduced to $1,200 for clearance).

I found the imaging of the Mirage not as focused as I am used to,
probably as a result of its omnipolar tweeter technology.

There was a slight set up problem with the Martin Logans so I didn't
get a good chance to listen to them properly. However, they didn't
immediately grab my attention but I probably need to give them more
listening time.

Other speakers I'm considering right now are Joseph Audio RM7s (a
little outside of my budget, but hey, no harm in listening to them,
right?), and perhaps Paradigm.

I listened mostly to vocals accompanied by orchestra (Sarah Brightman,
Charlotte Church), jazz vocals with accompaniment (Diana Krall, Jane
Monheit - so ability to reproduce jazz piano accurately and a dynamic
bass (for the double-bass) are important attributes). Needless to
say, natural sounding voice is of paramount importance.

I also listen to some classical piano and classical orchestra.

I would appreciate any recommendations you guys have and what
amplification you think would make a good pairing. Thanks for any
feedback you can give.

Cheers.

Let's face it: so-called "audiophile" speakers are often very, very
"colored," in a way that "audiophiles" find pleasant. They are not
flat, and often have very high percentages of distortion.

If you are hearing exactly what was heard in the recording studio
control room, you are hearing what the musicians and producers had in
mind, as well as they could accomplish it. Thus, if you have monitors
as close as possible to what they were using, your speakers are as
accurate as you can get.

Most studios use JBL studio monitors. Not the JBL home units, but the
studio monitors.

For a list price of $1716, JBL makes the 4410a, which is flat within 3
db from over 20k to 45 hz, which has low (and published) distortion
specs, and which is often available at a good discount (under 1500).

For a bit more, the JBL LSR-32 is probably the best value available in
a high end loudspeaker system. (I think if you shop around you might
find a pair for under 2K). Add a nice subwoofer (I go for the
Velodyne HGS or Digital Drive - low distortion is key), and you've got
about the most accurate speakers you can find.

I used to have a pair of very highly rated, expensive "audiophile"
speakers. Then I picked up the much smaller and cheaper JBL 4412a's.
At first, they sounded drab compared to my older speakers. Then I
realized how much more detail I was hearing. Quite frankly, I'd
gotten used to listening to the speakers - not the music. Sure, they
had a response curve that during short term listening is pleasing to
the ear - but everything you play through them picks up that
characteristic curve. Hence the concept that some speakers are good
for jazz, some for rock, some for classical... that's horse puckey.
A speaker should not add anything or take anything away from your
music. As such, it should be fine for ANY style of music.

The JBL studio monitors are the ones to go for, IMHO.

THIS IS NOT AN ENDORSEMENT OF JBL HOME EQUIPMENT, much of which should
only be used to listen to bad movies or as doorstops.

Clay S. Conrad

"Curt Simon" wrote in message ...
Someone mentioned Vandersteen 2ce, and I have to agree that they are a fine
product at the price. However, I eventually sold them because they tended to
have a bit of a mid-rangey sound, the treble sounded a bit shut in, and the
bass was often a bit indistinct. As the Editors of Stereophile put it, the
Vandersteen 2ce doesn't do anything best, but does the least wrong across
the board in its price range. So it is a matter of whether one is willing to
trade something to get something else.

The speaker that has most impressed me is the Audio Physic Spark, at the
time (2 years ago), retailing new for $2750. If one could find a pair of
these used, I think they would be hard to beat. They also have introduced
less-expensive speakers. I would not buy a speaker without auditioning
Audio Physic if I could easily do so.

As far as electronics, Musical Fidelity produces a great product at the
price. A perfect match with the Spark, almost magic, to my ears. And all
this with $15 worth of cabling! (Don't spend any less on cables -- it's
just not worth it!:-)

Curt Simon


"P and C" wrote in message
...
I hope I'm not being presumptuous by posting my question here, but I
didn't find a rec.audio.mid-end and the other rec.audio.* groups don't
appear to have much hi-fi discussion.

I am looking for a pair of speakers in the range of $1,000-$1,500. I
will only be using these for stereo music only, as I am now building a
dedicated system for music. What is the best pair of speakers you can
get for this much dough?

I don't live near a major city so I'm limited by what I can audition.
I have to be selective to avoid doing a lot of driving That is why
I'm asking all the experts here for recommendations

I have listened so far to the Mirage OMNI 260, and Martin Logans
Scenarios ($2,000 speakers reduced to $1,200 for clearance).

I found the imaging of the Mirage not as focused as I am used to,
probably as a result of its omnipolar tweeter technology.

There was a slight set up problem with the Martin Logans so I didn't
get a good chance to listen to them properly. However, they didn't
immediately grab my attention but I probably need to give them more
listening time.

Other speakers I'm considering right now are Joseph Audio RM7s (a
little outside of my budget, but hey, no harm in listening to them,
right?), and perhaps Paradigm.

I listened mostly to vocals accompanied by orchestra (Sarah Brightman,
Charlotte Church), jazz vocals with accompaniment (Diana Krall, Jane
Monheit - so ability to reproduce jazz piano accurately and a dynamic
bass (for the double-bass) are important attributes). Needless to
say, natural sounding voice is of paramount importance.

I also listen to some classical piano and classical orchestra.

I would appreciate any recommendations you guys have and what
amplification you think would make a good pairing. Thanks for any
feedback you can give.

Cheers.

Clay S. Conrad wrote:
Let's face it: so-called "audiophile" speakers are often very, very
"colored," in a way that "audiophiles" find pleasant. They are not
flat, and often have very high percentages of distortion.

No duh

Most studios use JBL studio monitors. Not the JBL home units, but the
studio monitors.

Not all, but probably about 25-35% or so. Most 80's rock and pop was
mixed on these, though, as the market share was closer to 50-60% back then.

For a list price of $1716, JBL makes the 4410a, which is flat within 3
db from over 20k to 45 hz, which has low (and published) distortion
specs, and which is often available at a good discount (under 1500).

Actually, +/- 2db. This puts it firmly in the unobtanium range for
most commercial speakers. Of course, many people don't like them.
Why? Makes junk upstream sound like exactly that.

The JBL studio monitors are the ones to go for, IMHO.

I own them and they are good choices on this budget if you want
conventional speakers(ie - not MAgnepan or simmilar).

Note - you don't need a subwoofer with these. A good amplifier
will pound out bass equal to a typical 8 inch dedicated subwoofer.
(ie - two 10 inch woofers at half the power is very close to a
good 8 inch sub - especially considering the low distortion)
33hz low end(-10db) - so figure two of them is 33hz -5db plus
better SPLs than a single 8 inch sub. The results are very close
for both options - just that you save space and money by not
needing the sub for 2-channel listening.

www.musiciansfriend.com has them for nice discounts.

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/srs7/.../d=tp?q=JBL+44
(may wrap - cut and paste or do a search for "JBL 44")

$429 each for the 10 inchers is a great price. That's $858
plus shipping - well under $1000. This will do a lot more for
that price out-the-door than most anything you can buy.

$500 buys a nice amplifier as well. Denon makes a nice 2-channel
model for about $400-$500 last I checked. Perfect for these
speakers(BT,DT - works perfectly). $1500 total system cost
including tax and shipping.

Or, you can go for the smaller 8 inchers. $598 for a pair.
Free shipping. No tax in most of the U.S. That's an amazing
deal, no two ways about it.

Thanks for all your responses.

You guys have made many recommendations which I would love to
audition. I have to say to myself, one speaker at a time...

Big Caveat: this posting contains very non-scientific, highly
subjective and early impression of some speakers. They are not meant
to be "reviews" as such. If you want to read professional reviews,
there's plenty out there on the web. Also, there's nothing like
listening to them yourself.

I actually have two updates to file on my "Speaker Search"

Sept 3 Update
=============

After work today I did manage to visit a couple of stores and did some
listening. Had to drive over 40 miles each way but it was worth it.

The first setup I listened to was Triangle Celius 202, Sugden
integrated A21a amp, and a Musical Fidelity CD player.

First impression: even though the Sugden was rated at only 25watts,
this amp could play LOUD! Hmm... why is there no remote control for
this amp? Okay, fine ...that's probably my low/mid-fi background
showing.

The Triangle sound very clear and detailed in the mid-range and upper
bass, but the treble sounded unusually harsh. Violins and soprano
female vocals were almost unbearable. I later learnt that these
speakers needed an extended break-in period but I never found out if
the demo unit had been properly broken in.

Next, we swapped in a pair of Devore Fidelity gibbon 8s with the same
setup, but my friend and I both agreed that they were not as clear and
detailed as the Triangle, but the treble was much tamer, without the
same harshness. Lesson learned: you can't have your cake and eat it
too. The Devores were actually $1500 more than the Triangles, which
themselves were slightly above budget at $1750.

Ok, off we went to a second store, and listened rather hastily
(because it was close to closing time) to pairs of Boston Acoustic
VR3s, and Martin Logan Aeons. The VR3s couldn't compare with the
Celius for clarity. Somehow, the Celius had become our reference point
for mid-band clarity. The Aeons were much less sensitive speakers, and
for me, lacked the oomph and the more engaging feeling I get with
regular dynamic cone speakers.

Then the salesman suggested listening to some Sonus Faber Grand Piano,
his favorite speaker in the entire store, At about $3.5k, we were
going further and further away from budget.

The setup here was a Denon 5803 receiver (we were in an AV shop, after
all), and a Sony 999ES CD player

The Grand Pianos sounded very good. It matched the Triangle Celius in
clarity and had a very fast and dynamic bass response that was
probably better. But bear in mind that these are at twice the price.
Okay, a budget reality check was in order, so let's try the Sonus
Faber Concerto bookshelf speakers on Sonus Faber stands, at around
$1800 for the pair, plus stands. By this time, it was 20 minutes past
closing, and the sales rep was gracious enough not to kick us out of
the store. The hastily formed impression was that the Concerto were
good too, at least half as good as the Grand Piano, for about half the
price.

I think the Celius and Concerto both deserve another, and preferably
extended listening session. The ideal would be to take them home and
listen to them for a week or so. At home, you could listen to them
with the same components, which I couldn't do at the store. That would
be a good request to make during our next visit.

================================================== =============================

Sept 9 Update
=============

Over the weekend, I made two other listening trips, alone this time.
(Actually, with the wifey, but that's just as good as going alone
I actually started this speaker search journey with a friend, who's a
piano buff - that's about all he listens to. i.e. solo piano and piano
concertos. He's doing his own auditions over the weekend - more about
that later.

First setup was the B&W CDM 1NT ($1200) with all Rotel electronics:
RCD-1070 CD player, RC-1090 Pre, and RB-1070 Power Amp. I didn't pay
close attention to the electronics, but I believ those were the ones..
based on what I remember about the pricing, $700, $500, and $700
respectively.

The speakers were biwired. Apparently these speakers are bi-wirable
but not bi-ampable - I know little enough about bi-*ing to think that
oddly curious.

The owner recommended B&W right off the bat. "There are more B&W in
recording studios than any other speaker", he said. The shop also
carried Definitive Technologies and Phase Techs, but they weren't set
up as nicely.

This was a family owned business, and the owner was an amiable guy who
pretty much let me have the run of the equipment, and I could listen
to whichever ones I pleased. I spent some time with the B&W setup and
after a while, started to notice what the B&W did better than my
current setup (Athena AS-B2s with AS400 sub). I did not find the solo
voices to be much of an improvement, nor the imaging. What I did
notice however, was that the orchestra sounded more open, especially
during "big" passages where all 90 or so instruments were playing.
However, for jazz accompaniments that typically comprise fewer than 10
instruments, and very often just piano, double-bass and percussion, it
was very difficult for me to notice much of a difference.

On Chopin's Scherzo #2, during certain passages where I found the left
hand notes kinda muffled from my own setup, I did not hear any
additional clarity. Wifey, an amateur pianist who claims a certain
measure of expertise herself, advises that sometimes the left hand
intends to play that way - the emphasis being on the melody carried by
the right hand. Okay, maybe it's just the recording.

A pleasant discovery was that the bass from these bookshelf speakers
was surprisingly good, but I found the thump of the bass drums more
palpabe after adding the $500 B&W CM sub.

At the next stop, I was returning to the shop with the clearance
Martin Logans, but alas, they were gone. So I made the best of the
occasion by listening to the a pair that I had missed on my previous
visit, the Mirage OM7 ($2000). The electronics were a Denon 3803
receiver and the Pioneer Elite 45A universal player (yeah, this was an
AV shop).

I don't know what the deal was, but I honestly found the bass to be
too boomy. Could it be the electronics? Could it be the room or
speaker placement? Or the recording?

Playing the Diana Krall Live from Paris concert dvd (which is now in
every AV shop's DVD player, it seems), you could still hear the bass
notes moments after seeing the bassist, John Clayton suppressing the
string on his double bass, moving on to the next note during the
double-bass solo. Perhaps the dolby digital track was out of sync?
Whatever it was, it gave the impression of a boomy but loud bass. My
own setup, playing the CD, not the dolby digital track, probably has
less bass volume, but I remember it being tight and musical bass
nonetheless.

I found the soundstage of the OM7 to be remarkably uniform as you move
sideways from the listening position. In my setup, moving half a foot
one way would shift the "source" of the image in the same direction,
i.e. the voice is now no longer coming from from dead center. This
effect was much less noticeable in the OM7.

On Monday, it was time to catch up with my friend, who reported that
his speaker search had somehow turned into an amplifier discovery. He
is building a new system from the ground up, starting with speakers,
or at least that was his plan. He was full of praise for the McIntosh
6500 stereo integrated, which, at $3100, was unfortunately only maybe
5 times his original budget for an amp. However, being a single guy
with a good job, he has an eminently adjustable budget.

"This amp was so good it made cheaper speakers sound incredible," he
gushed, "you just want to keep listening to the music. You cannot
stop!". So he got a quote for the system, a little shy of $7k for the
amp plus B&W CM4, Arcam 24 bit CD player and monster cables. Note
that this budget is weighted much more towards the amp than the other
components.

Well, I'm going to have a listen myself later today. The McIntosh
discovery led to another discovery - a local Audio shop listed on the
McIntosh dealer directory that none of us knew existed.

The speaker search continues!

P and C wrote:

Well, I'm going to have a listen myself later today. The McIntosh
discovery led to another discovery - a local Audio shop listed on the
McIntosh dealer directory that none of us knew existed.

The speaker search continues!

Don't forget Tannoy and KEF. They make very good speakers in
your price range. So does Paradigm and a bit up the price
scale, Joseph Audio. Also look at Magnepan and the new Martin Logan
planar hybrid(not electrostatic)

No need to get into silly expensive "high end"(ie - marketing term)
designs.

My father has a pair of Satrun S8 towers and a Denon 3800 series
receiver. In 2 channel mode, it is very loud and clean. No need
to get uber-expensive electronics, either. A Rotel or NAD amplifier
is good enough if the speakers are made well.

The first setup I listened to was Triangle Celius 202, Sugden
integrated A21a amp, and a Musical Fidelity CD player.

First impression: even though the Sugden was rated at only 25watts,
this amp could play LOUD! Hmm... why is there no remote control for
this amp? Okay, fine ...that's probably my low/mid-fi background
showing.

It"s because the Triangle has enough efficiency to need reasonable
power.

The Triangle sound very clear and detailed in the mid-range and upper
bass, but the treble sounded unusually harsh. Violins and soprano
female vocals were almost unbearable. I later learnt that these
speakers needed an extended break-in period but I never found out if
the demo unit had been properly broken in.

IMO it's impossible that Triangle (or any other manufacturer) should
put on the market a speaker which makes violin and sopranos almost
unbearable. Some speakers have more treble than others but not up to
that level. I suspect bad set up, i've heard very good speakers (801
Nautilus, Martin Logan,....) sound very badly in shops. For example i
bought some years ago a pair of Quests (Martin logan) after listening
at some person's home, they always sounded awful in the stores; and
they were very good. The same with 801s which sounded nasal and
muffled in a store, i could go on............



Next, we swapped in a pair of Devore Fidelity gibbon 8s with the same
setup, but my friend and I both agreed that they were not as clear and
detailed as the Triangle, but the treble was much tamer, without the
same harshness. Lesson learned: you can't have your cake and eat it
too.

Don't jump too quickly to conclusions, wer'e talking about Hig End, it
seems, and detailed and clear without harshness is not too hard to
obtain.



The owner recommended B&W right off the bat. "There are more B&W in
recording studios than any other speaker", he said.

IMO a little bit exaggerated, so buy studio monitors.


The speaker search continues!

Good hunting, keep posting the episodes.
Jean

Thanks for all your responses.

You guys have made many recommendations which I would love to
audition. I have to say to myself, one speaker at a time...

The best part of all of this is that you are obviously enjoying yourself during
the search. That truly is a part of the fun. Continue on!

In the August/september issue ( page 35 ) of 'The Absolute Sound' is
an article about loudspeakers called 'recommended products'.

Maybe is interesting to read this particular article, because there
are a couple of loudspeakers discussed in the range of $1000-$1500.

Good luck ...

Marc, The Hague ... The Netherlands

Look at the classified section of www.audioasylum.com for "B&W MAtrix
805".

On 13 Sep 2003 15:57:51 GMT, (Ma®©) wrote:

In the August/september issue ( page 35 ) of 'The Absolute Sound' is
an article about loudspeakers called 'recommended products'.

Maybe is interesting to read this particular article, because there
are a couple of loudspeakers discussed in the range of $1000-$1500.

Good luck ...

Marc, The Hague ... The Netherlands

Joseph Oberlander wrote in message ...
Most studios use JBL studio monitors. Not the JBL home units, but the
studio monitors.

Not all, but probably about 25-35% or so. Most 80's rock and pop was
mixed on these, though, as the market share was closer to 50-60% back then.

There are alot of companies joining the monitor market - Westlake
Audio makes some great monitors, as does Tannoy (which has a large
chunk of the Brit market). JBL still has greater market share than
anyone else.

(Of ocurse, I'm not considering the micro-studios, but professional
recording studios. Sure, every musician on the planet seems to have a
"studio" in their living room nowadays - but when it comes to a real
studio that actually rents time and records discs that are actually
marketed somewhere other than the band's own gigs, JBL dominates.)


For a list price of $1716, JBL makes the 4410a, which is flat within 3
db from over 20k to 45 hz, which has low (and published) distortion
specs, and which is often available at a good discount (under 1500).

Apparently, I overstated the list price. They are even a better deal
than I noted. (I got mine used from a studio that folded, and
apparently the seller overstated the list price to me. However, I got
them on Ebay for under $500, so I've got no complaint)

The top of the JBL monitor line now is the LSR32, a 3 way 12" model,
which lists for under $2400 a pair, and which can be purchased for
under $1900 a pair. Unfortunately, they come without grill clothes,
so they are a bit garish for the home. JBL got out of the enormous
dual 15" monitors and the like years ago, although some of them can
still be found on Ebay and the like.

For specs, try www.jblpro.com

JBLs days of making high end home equipment are long over,
unfortunately. Now that they are part of the Harmon Kardon fold, the
beancounters have let Infiniti take over that market.

Clay S. Conrad

On Sun, 21 Sep 2003 21:17:00 GMT, (Clay S. Conrad)
wrote:

JBLs days of making high end home equipment are long over,
unfortunately. Now that they are part of the Harmon Kardon fold, the
beancounters have let Infiniti take over that market.

This is incorrect. JBL still make very expensive speakers for the high
end domestic market, with horn-loadaed midrange and tweeter.
--

Stewart Pinkerton | Music is Art - Audio is Engineering