Are musicians and conductors superior to non-musicians in discerning
audible differences?

Nager W, Kohlmetz C, Altenmuller E, Rodriguez-Fornells A, Munte TF.
The fate of sounds in conductors' brains: an ERP study.
Brain Res Cogn Brain Res. 2003 Jun;17(1):83-93.

Tervaniemi M, Rytkonen M, Schroger E, Ilmoniemi RJ, Naatanen R.
Superior formation of cortical memory traces for melodic patterns in
musicians.
Learn Mem. 2001 Sep-Oct;8(5):295-300.

Russeler J, Altenmuller E, Nager W, Kohlmetz C, Munte TF.
Event-related brain potentials to sound omissions differ in musicians
and non-musicians.
Neurosci Lett. 2001 Jul 27;308(1):33-6.

Koelsch S, Schroger E, Tervaniemi M. Superior pre-attentive auditory
processing in musicians.
Neuroreport. 1999 Apr 26;10(6):1309-13.

(Thomas A) wrote in message t...
Are musicians and conductors superior to non-musicians in discerning
audible differences?

Nager W, Kohlmetz C, Altenmuller E, Rodriguez-Fornells A, Munte TF.
The fate of sounds in conductors' brains: an ERP study.
Brain Res Cogn Brain Res. 2003 Jun;17(1):83-93.

Tervaniemi M, Rytkonen M, Schroger E, Ilmoniemi RJ, Naatanen R.
Superior formation of cortical memory traces for melodic patterns in
musicians.
Learn Mem. 2001 Sep-Oct;8(5):295-300.

Russeler J, Altenmuller E, Nager W, Kohlmetz C, Munte TF.
Event-related brain potentials to sound omissions differ in musicians
and non-musicians.
Neurosci Lett. 2001 Jul 27;308(1):33-6.

Koelsch S, Schroger E, Tervaniemi M. Superior pre-attentive auditory
processing in musicians.
Neuroreport. 1999 Apr 26;10(6):1309-13.

I'd hope so. And some non-musicians are superior to other
non-musicians. It is quaint that anyone should think otherwise. But
reading the forum it would appear that some do.
Ludovic Mirabel

Long-term training and auditory processing
From: (Thomas A)
Date: 7/29/2003 8:29 AM Pacific Daylight Time
Message-id:

Are musicians and conductors superior to non-musicians in discerning
audible differences?

Nager W, Kohlmetz C, Altenmuller E, Rodriguez-Fornells A, Munte TF.
The fate of sounds in conductors' brains: an ERP study.
Brain Res Cogn Brain Res. 2003 Jun;17(1):83-93.

Tervaniemi M, Rytkonen M, Schroger E, Ilmoniemi RJ, Naatanen R.
Superior formation of cortical memory traces for melodic patterns in
musicians.
Learn Mem. 2001 Sep-Oct;8(5):295-300.

Russeler J, Altenmuller E, Nager W, Kohlmetz C, Munte TF.
Event-related brain potentials to sound omissions differ in musicians
and non-musicians.
Neurosci Lett. 2001 Jul 27;308(1):33-6.

Koelsch S, Schroger E, Tervaniemi M. Superior pre-attentive auditory
processing in musicians.
Neuroreport. 1999 Apr 26;10(6):1309-13.

While I have not read your citations and musicians and conductorsare better
trained for music, their ability to discern small differences were published:

"The Grass is Always Greener in the Outakes", Gould, Glenn, High Fidelity, Aug
75, pg 54-59.

which is a bit easier to get. They couldn't do much better in discerning the
conductors outtakes from their recordings.

(Thomas A) wrote in message t...
Are musicians and conductors superior to non-musicians in discerning
audible differences?

Nager W, Kohlmetz C, Altenmuller E, Rodriguez-Fornells A, Munte TF.
The fate of sounds in conductors' brains: an ERP study.
Brain Res Cogn Brain Res. 2003 Jun;17(1):83-93.

Tervaniemi M, Rytkonen M, Schroger E, Ilmoniemi RJ, Naatanen R.
Superior formation of cortical memory traces for melodic patterns in
musicians.
Learn Mem. 2001 Sep-Oct;8(5):295-300.

Russeler J, Altenmuller E, Nager W, Kohlmetz C, Munte TF.
Event-related brain potentials to sound omissions differ in musicians
and non-musicians.
Neurosci Lett. 2001 Jul 27;308(1):33-6.

Koelsch S, Schroger E, Tervaniemi M. Superior pre-attentive auditory
processing in musicians.
Neuroreport. 1999 Apr 26;10(6):1309-13.

I would venture a guess of yes in some cases IF there are audible differences.

In article ,
(Thomas A) wrote:

Are musicians and conductors superior to non-musicians in discerning
audible differences?

Nager W, Kohlmetz C, Altenmuller E, Rodriguez-Fornells A, Munte TF.
The fate of sounds in conductors' brains: an ERP study.
Brain Res Cogn Brain Res. 2003 Jun;17(1):83-93.

Conductors have wider soundstages.

Tervaniemi M, Rytkonen M, Schroger E, Ilmoniemi RJ, Naatanen R.
Superior formation of cortical memory traces for melodic patterns in
musicians.
Learn Mem. 2001 Sep-Oct;8(5):295-300.

Musicians tend to better remember tunes, yes.

Russeler J, Altenmuller E, Nager W, Kohlmetz C, Munte TF.
Event-related brain potentials to sound omissions differ in musicians
and non-musicians.
Neurosci Lett. 2001 Jul 27;308(1):33-6.

And notice more if you leave out a note.

Koelsch S, Schroger E, Tervaniemi M. Superior pre-attentive auditory
processing in musicians.
Neuroreport. 1999 Apr 26;10(6):1309-13.

This one merits a hearty, "duh!" from musicians. "Slightly impure
chords, presented among perfect major chords elicited a distinct MMN in
professional musicians, but not in non-musicians." The interesting thing
here is the measurable electronic reaction in the musicians' brains.

I've met musicians who wouldn't test differently from non-musicians:
their sense of pitch is so accute they didn't develop an ear for chord
quality.

These tests show diffences in hearing, but they don't relate as such to
distinguishing audio component differences. That would take a different
study, maybe one that accounts for timbral differences. Finding a
relevant electrical measurement would help!

Stephen

What might Beethoven have mused?
- Bill
www.uptownaudio.com
Roanoke VA
(540) 343-1250

"Thomas A" wrote in message
...
Are musicians and conductors superior to non-musicians in discerning
audible differences?

Nager W, Kohlmetz C, Altenmuller E, Rodriguez-Fornells A, Munte TF.
The fate of sounds in conductors' brains: an ERP study.
Brain Res Cogn Brain Res. 2003 Jun;17(1):83-93.

Tervaniemi M, Rytkonen M, Schroger E, Ilmoniemi RJ, Naatanen R.
Superior formation of cortical memory traces for melodic patterns in
musicians.
Learn Mem. 2001 Sep-Oct;8(5):295-300.

Russeler J, Altenmuller E, Nager W, Kohlmetz C, Munte TF.
Event-related brain potentials to sound omissions differ in
musicians
and non-musicians.
Neurosci Lett. 2001 Jul 27;308(1):33-6.

Koelsch S, Schroger E, Tervaniemi M. Superior pre-attentive auditory
processing in musicians.
Neuroreport. 1999 Apr 26;10(6):1309-13.