[Arny Krueger]

I see that Harry Lavo and John Atkinson have been warning Jenn that I'm
trying embarrass her by tricking her into producing a null result in a
proposed listening test.

The listening test will introduce an obsolete model of M-Audio's Flying Cow
digital converter into a signal chain that is reproducing whatever live
musical source that Jenn can come up with, in a venue of her choosing.

Jenn will be able to bypass the Flying Cow (set for 44 KHz sampling) by a
piece of wire whenever she wishes.

That pretty much summarizes the means by which Harry and John claim I
propose to fool Jenn.

Of course anybody with a brain can see that my purported *trick* will only
work if the Flying Cow is sonically indistinguishable from wire.

Thus Lavo and Atkinson are essentially agreeing with me that as mediocre as
it is, my obsolete M-Audio Flying Cow digital converter running at 44 KHz
is sonically indistinguishable from a piece of wire.

This corrects many false claims that both gentlemen have been making in the
past. My hat is off to them for finally correcting the public record!

[John Atkinson]

Arny Krueger wrote:
I see that Harry Lavo and John Atkinson have been warning
Jenn that I'm trying embarrass her by tricking her into
producing a null result in a proposed listening test.

Not exactly. I am pointing out that someone about to proctor
a listening test who declares ahead of time that he knows what
the result will be, and who publicly states that his motive is to
"embarrass" and "fool" the listener, has no business being
involved in so-called "scientific" testing.

Lavo and Atkinson are essentially agreeing with me that as
mediocre as it is, my obsolete M-Audio Flying Cow digital
converter running at 44 KHz is sonically indistinguishable from
a piece of wire.

As I have made no comment on this digital converter, I fail to
understand why you feel we are "essentially agreeing with you,"
Mr. Krueger. Perhaps you are reading my mind? :-)

This corrects many false claims that both gentlemen have been
making in the past. My hat is off to them for finally correcting
the public record!

You're welcome to believe whatever you wish to believe, Mr.
Krueger, if it helps you make it through the day.

John Atkinson
Editor, Stereophile

[Arny Krueger]

"John Atkinson" wrote in message
oups.com...
Arny Krueger wrote:
I see that Harry Lavo and John Atkinson have been warning
Jenn that I'm trying embarrass her by tricking her into
producing a null result in a proposed listening test.

Not exactly. I am pointing out that someone about to proctor
a listening test who declares ahead of time that he knows what
the result will be, and who publicly states that his motive is to
"embarrass" and "fool" the listener, has no business being
involved in so-called "scientific" testing.

That's fine John. I think that a person as sold out to false claims and
deceptions as you are well-known to be, shouldn't be attacking anybody on
such grounds.

Lavo and Atkinson are essentially agreeing with me that as
mediocre as it is, my obsolete M-Audio Flying Cow digital
converter running at 44 KHz is sonically indistinguishable from
a piece of wire.

As I have made no comment on this digital converter, I fail to
understand why you feel we are "essentially agreeing with you,"
Mr. Krueger. Perhaps you are reading my mind? :-)

Oh come on John. You've basically said that by reducing the issue to this is
a deception.

This corrects many false claims that both gentlemen have been
making in the past. My hat is off to them for finally correcting
the public record!

You're welcome to believe whatever you wish to believe, Mr.
Krueger, if it helps you make it through the day.

What I believe John is that you're just another kettle calling a pot black.

[George M. Middius]

John Atkinson said:

I see that Harry Lavo and John Atkinson have been warning
Jenn that I'm trying embarrass her by tricking her into
producing a null result in a proposed listening test.

Not exactly.

My god, John, have you no compassion? Such a vicious and uncalled-for
personal attack, and aimed at sweet, innocent Arnii Krooger. Shame on you,
you overbearing bully!






--

Krooscience: The antidote to education, experience, and excellence.

[Arny Krueger]

"Soundhaspriority" wrote in message
news

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
. ..

"John Atkinson" wrote in message
oups.com...
Arny Krueger wrote:
I see that Harry Lavo and John Atkinson have been warning
Jenn that I'm trying embarrass her by tricking her into
producing a null result in a proposed listening test.

Not exactly. I am pointing out that someone about to proctor
a listening test who declares ahead of time that he knows what
the result will be, and who publicly states that his motive is to
"embarrass" and "fool" the listener, has no business being
involved in so-called "scientific" testing.

That's fine John. I think that a person as sold out to false claims and
deceptions as you are well-known to be, shouldn't be attacking anybody on
such grounds.

Arny, the issue is your offering to proctor a test while predicting the
result. Ideology has no place in science. This is why you have earned the
title of BAD SCIENTIST.

As compared to who Morein, a person like you who simply presumes the outcome
of a test without ever doing it?

LOL!

[Arny Krueger]

"Soundhaspriority" wrote in message
...

"Here in Ohio" wrote in message
news
On Thu, 9 Nov 2006 14:25:22 -0500, "Soundhaspriority"
wrote:


"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
om...

"John Atkinson" wrote in message
oups.com...
Arny Krueger wrote:
I see that Harry Lavo and John Atkinson have been warning
Jenn that I'm trying embarrass her by tricking her into
producing a null result in a proposed listening test.

Not exactly. I am pointing out that someone about to proctor
a listening test who declares ahead of time that he knows what
the result will be, and who publicly states that his motive is to
"embarrass" and "fool" the listener, has no business being
involved in so-called "scientific" testing.

That's fine John. I think that a person as sold out to false claims and
deceptions as you are well-known to be, shouldn't be attacking anybody
on
such grounds.

Arny, the issue is your offering to proctor a test while predicting the
result. Ideology has no place in science. This is why you have earned the
title of BAD SCIENTIST.


Plenty of scientists have predicted results and plenty of them have an
ideology.

The key is that a good scientist will act to ensure that experiments
are done properly and fairly, and that (s)he retains an open mind and
is willing to accept experimental results that don't fit in with their
preconceptions.

You've got that right. We invented the ABX comparator in order to obtain as
much freedom as possible from personal bias. We really didn't invent it to
make fools out of the golden ears. Some of our development team, including
me, were of the golden eared persuasion.

Thus, it has not been shown that Arny is a bad scientist.

Arny has stated that a Sony CDP-101 sounds good.

It would be wise to ask Robert to back this up with a quote from google.

Are you willing to place the fate of Audiodom in his crooked fingers?

This is a vast overestimation of my influence. But if I've never said that
the CDP 101 sounds good, then the crook would be Robert, no?

[Harry Lavo]

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
. ..

"Soundhaspriority" wrote in message
...

"Here in Ohio" wrote in message
news
On Thu, 9 Nov 2006 14:25:22 -0500, "Soundhaspriority"
wrote:


"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
news:EYidnaEQV4vj9s7YnZ2dnUVZ_sKdnZ2d@comcast. com...

"John Atkinson" wrote in message
oups.com...
Arny Krueger wrote:
I see that Harry Lavo and John Atkinson have been warning
Jenn that I'm trying embarrass her by tricking her into
producing a null result in a proposed listening test.

Not exactly. I am pointing out that someone about to proctor
a listening test who declares ahead of time that he knows what
the result will be, and who publicly states that his motive is to
"embarrass" and "fool" the listener, has no business being
involved in so-called "scientific" testing.

That's fine John. I think that a person as sold out to false claims
and
deceptions as you are well-known to be, shouldn't be attacking anybody
on
such grounds.

Arny, the issue is your offering to proctor a test while predicting the
result. Ideology has no place in science. This is why you have earned
the
title of BAD SCIENTIST.


Plenty of scientists have predicted results and plenty of them have an
ideology.

The key is that a good scientist will act to ensure that experiments
are done properly and fairly, and that (s)he retains an open mind and
is willing to accept experimental results that don't fit in with their
preconceptions.

You've got that right. We invented the ABX comparator in order to obtain
as much freedom as possible from personal bias. We really didn't invent it
to make fools out of the golden ears. Some of our development team,
including me, were of the golden eared persuasion.

Thus, it has not been shown that Arny is a bad scientist.

Arny has stated that a Sony CDP-101 sounds good.

It would be wise to ask Robert to back this up with a quote from google.

Are you willing to place the fate of Audiodom in his crooked fingers?

This is a vast overestimation of my influence. But if I've never said
that the CDP 101 sounds good, then the crook would be Robert, no?

You've come close, but technically you are right...you never said "good" but
you certainly implied it. Here are relevant quotes:

From: Arny Krueger - view profile
Date: Tues, May 4 2004 10:43 am
Email: "Arny Krueger"
Groups: rec.audio.pro

Marc Wielage wrote:
As one example, I actually own in my collection one of the original 1983
Sony CDP-101 CD players -- widely reviled as one of the worst CD players
ever owned. I've offered many times to make a CD dub of a music track --
in analog -- from this player, and see if somebody can spot this track in
a CD-R, but nobody has ever agreed to take me up on the offer.

A friend has the CDP-101 for which measurements are posted he
http://www.pcavtech.com/play-rec/Sony_CDP-101/index.htm
It does not measure that badly. It does not sound that bad. It is not a
jitter box. It's frequency response is a bit rolled-off and rough in the top
octave. Notice the expanded vertical scale. It had that interchannel delay
that might have a slight audible effect on a center channel.

snip

We used a CDP 101 in ABX DBTs done for Stereo Review in the late 80's. We
could hear some coloration if we listened very closely and used certain very
revealing non-musical program material. With most music it passed.


From: Arny Krueger - view profile
Date: Mon, Oct 6 2003 2:49 pm
Email: "Arny Krueger"
Groups: rec.audio.opinion

"Max Holubitsky" wrote in message

newsfjgb.32807$6C4.15187@pd7tw1no
One point I take an issue with, it the point that early CD players sound
terrible... I totally disagree with that point. Perhaps some early CD's
sound terrible, but I own a Sony CDP-200 (Manufactured in November 1983),
and a Philips CD-101 (also from '82 or '83), and both of these players
sound great, and are extremely reliable and well made.

I agree, given that I have access to a refurbished CDP 101 (Sony's first
player, introduced 10/1/1982) and it doesn't sound horrible. It performs
pretty much as Stereo Review said it does - detectable with some test
signals, but hard to detect with music, presuming it's tracking well (see
below).

snip

From: Arny Krueger - view profile
Date: Mon, Apr 10 2006 12:59 pm
Email: "Arny Krueger"
Groups: rec.audio.opinion

wrote in message

oups.com
Barend wrote:
Now For Something Not Religious! Whaddayou think? Upsampling in CD
Players- good or nonsense? Barend
Forgive Arny for being ignorant about upsamplers. He's an old fart and
still listens to his Sony CDP101, one of the first CD players ever
marketed.

I've been known to do that.
It sounds great to his tired old ears.

Actually, the CDP 101 has been sounding just like much more modern CD
players to a lot of people.

snip

[George M. Middius]

Kwivitz the Klueless jabbered:

I repeat, it has not been shown that Arny is a bad scientist.

I agree. We all know that Krooger is not a scientist at all. Not a good
one, not a bad one, not a mediocre one. Krooger is not a scientist of any
stripe, ilk, or genera.

What Krooger is (and this is the version for polite company): A mentally
impaired religious zealot to whom logic is utterly inimical, and whose
raging paranoia is exceeded only by his monumental history of pathological
lying.





--

Krooscience: The antidote to education, experience, and excellence.

[Arny Krueger]

"Soundhaspriority" wrote in message
...

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
...

I see that Harry Lavo and John Atkinson have been warning Jenn that I'm
trying embarrass her by tricking her into producing a null result in a
proposed listening test.

The listening test will introduce an obsolete model of M-Audio's Flying
Cow digital converter into a signal chain that is reproducing whatever
live musical source that Jenn can come up with, in a venue of her
choosing.

Jenn will be able to bypass the Flying Cow (set for 44 KHz sampling) by
a piece of wire whenever she wishes.

That pretty much summarizes the means by which Harry and John claim I
propose to fool Jenn.

Of course anybody with a brain can see that my purported *trick* will
only work if the Flying Cow is sonically indistinguishable from wire.

Thus Lavo and Atkinson are essentially agreeing with me that as mediocre
as it is, my obsolete M-Audio Flying Cow digital converter running at 44
KHz is sonically indistinguishable from a piece of wire.

This corrects many false claims that both gentlemen have been making in
the past. My hat is off to them for finally correcting the public record!

How would this test be accomplished in the real world? Would you bring the
equipment to Jenn's location?

Jenn says she would be in Ann Arbor at the time, so the proposed location
would be there. It's easier to move the equipment than the venue and the
people.

[Arny Krueger]

"Soundhaspriority" wrote in message
...

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
...

"Soundhaspriority" wrote in message
...

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
...

I see that Harry Lavo and John Atkinson have been warning Jenn that I'm
trying embarrass her by tricking her into producing a null result in a
proposed listening test.

The listening test will introduce an obsolete model of M-Audio's Flying
Cow digital converter into a signal chain that is reproducing whatever
live musical source that Jenn can come up with, in a venue of her
choosing.

Jenn will be able to bypass the Flying Cow (set for 44 KHz sampling)
by a piece of wire whenever she wishes.

That pretty much summarizes the means by which Harry and John claim I
propose to fool Jenn.

Of course anybody with a brain can see that my purported *trick* will
only work if the Flying Cow is sonically indistinguishable from wire.

Thus Lavo and Atkinson are essentially agreeing with me that as
mediocre as it is, my obsolete M-Audio Flying Cow digital converter
running at 44 KHz is sonically indistinguishable from a piece of wire.

This corrects many false claims that both gentlemen have been making in
the past. My hat is off to them for finally correcting the public
record!

How would this test be accomplished in the real world? Would you bring
the equipment to Jenn's location?

Jenn says she would be in Ann Arbor at the time, so the proposed location
would be there. It's easier to move the equipment than the venue and the
people.

So this is your opportunity to muddy the comparison with inferior
equipment and bad cables?

Oh my, it is the cable fairy!

But you forgot to whine about the nasty relays in the ABX box. ;-)

Have you considered that the acrimony between you and Jenn would be
stressful to her, possibly impairing her ability to discriminate?

Jenn's either a big girl or not.

Your strategy is clear.

Yes, especially the muddying of the water with bad cables. This should make
your strategy clear, Robert.

[Arny Krueger]

"Soundhaspriority" wrote in message
...

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
. ..

"Soundhaspriority" wrote in message
...


So this is your opportunity to muddy the comparison with inferior
equipment and bad cables?

Oh my, it is the cable fairy!

But you forgot to whine about the nasty relays in the ABX box. ;-)

No response.

Have you considered that the acrimony between you and Jenn would be
stressful to her, possibly impairing her ability to discriminate?

Jenn's either a big girl or not.

So according to you, everybody should have to lie on your emotional bed of
nails while making delicate aesthetic judgments.

I would not consider an "its the same", versus an "its different" call to be
a delicate aesthetic judgment.

Jenn seems to be saying that she makes this sort of judgment all the time,
morning evening, rested, tired, happy, sad.

Let her show us how it is done!

Furthermore, she can be as rested and happy as she wants to be.

[George M. Middius]

Robert said:

What Krooger is (and this is the version for polite company): A mentally
impaired religious zealot to whom logic is utterly inimical, and whose
raging paranoia is exceeded only by his monumental history of pathological
lying.

George, you're leaving out so much. Let's not whitewash him.

OK, consider my nutshell description a mere beginning.




--

Krooscience: The antidote to education, experience, and excellence.

[Arny Krueger]

"Soundhaspriority" wrote in message
...

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
...

"Soundhaspriority" wrote in message
...

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
. ..

"Soundhaspriority" wrote in message
...


Have you considered that the acrimony between you and Jenn would be
stressful to her, possibly impairing her ability to discriminate?

Jenn's either a big girl or not.

So according to you, everybody should have to lie on your emotional bed
of nails while making delicate aesthetic judgments.

I would not consider an "its the same", versus an "its different" call to
be a delicate aesthetic judgment.

Jenn seems to be saying that she makes this sort of judgment all the
time, morning evening, rested, tired, happy, sad.

But without you.

Jenn's either a big girl or not.

Let her show us how it is done!

Furthermore, she can be as rested and happy as she wants to be.

It would not be possible in your presence.

Delusions of omniscience noted.

I don't think either Jenn or I would be comfortable in your presence.

In Robert fact your prognostications are just that, prognostications. Given
the hurt you've attempted to drop on me, and your fearsome reputation for
repudiation, I should be more uncomfortable than you.

It's just your heritage for being a nasty kind of person.

So says "Mr. Charm".

[Arny Krueger]

"Soundhaspriority" wrote in message
...

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
. ..

"Soundhaspriority" wrote in message
...


I don't think either Jenn or I would be comfortable in your presence.

In Robert fact your prognostications are just that, prognostications.
Given the hurt you've attempted to drop on me, and your fearsome
reputation for repudiation, I should be more uncomfortable than you.

It's just your heritage for being a nasty kind of person.

So says "Mr. Charm".

Sorry Robert but now this is about you, not about me. When are you going to
take responsibility for your off-Usenet activities intended to hurt the
reputation of others?

[Clyde Slick]

Arny Krueger a scris:

Thus Lavo and Atkinson are essentially agreeing with me that as mediocre as
it is, my obsolete M-Audio Flying Cow digital converter running at 44 KHz
is sonically indistinguishable from a piece of wire.



Exactly "what" piece of wire?

[George M. Middius]

Robert said:

It's just your heritage for being a nasty kind of person.

So says "Mr. Charm".

So you think Jenn would feel just fine in your presence?

If she got drunk enough, maybe.




--

Krooscience: The antidote to education, experience, and excellence.

[George M. Middius]

Robert said:

What Krooger is (and this is the version for polite company): A mentally
impaired religious zealot to whom logic is utterly inimical, and whose raging
paranoia is exceeded only by his monumental history of pathological lying.

George, you're leaving out so much. Let's not whitewash him.

OK, consider my nutshell description a mere beginning.

Alright, but try not to slant it so much in his favor.

I meant now it's your turn to amplify.





--

Krooscience: The antidote to education, experience, and excellence.

[paul packer]

On Fri, 10 Nov 2006 14:49:42 -0500, "Arny Krueger"
wrote:


In Robert fact your prognostications

Is this the new "Arny-speak:"?

I like it.

[paul packer]

On Sat, 11 Nov 2006 14:51:15 -0500, "Soundhaspriority"
wrote:


"paul packer" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 10 Nov 2006 14:49:42 -0500, "Arny Krueger"
wrote:


In Robert fact your prognostications

Is this the new "Arny-speak:"?

I like it.

It's going to be a quiet month.

You mean because you've agreed not to drag Arnie through the cactus
behind your horse?

I thought you were very rash there, myself.