[J]

Hi

Which is a better choice for live recording in concerts, taking notes
etc.

http://www.zzounds.com/item--MDOMICRO
http://www.zzounds.com/item--ZOMPS04
http://www.zzounds.com/item--EDIR09

Zoom is half the price.

Any other brands ?

regards

[Joseph Ashwood]

"J" wrote in message
ups.com...
Any other brands ?

For those that don't like pointless links these a
M-Audio Microtrack
Zoom PS04
and
Edirol R09


As for my opinion: At this price level you're still very much in the "You
get what you pay for" area. It is almost certain that the Edirol and M-Audio
are superior devices. The M-Audio and Edirol have been compared in depth by
I don't even know how many people, each has it's positives and negatives,
google up some of these comparisons and decide for yourself, if someone else
chooses you've got a 50% chance of getting the wrong one for you.
Joe

[Julian]

On Wed, 08 Nov 2006 07:05:28 GMT, "Joseph Ashwood"
wrote:

"J" wrote in message
oups.com...
Any other brands ?

For those that don't like pointless links these a
M-Audio Microtrack
Zoom PS04
and
Edirol R09


As for my opinion: At this price level you're still very much in the "You
get what you pay for" area. It is almost certain that the Edirol and M-Audio
are superior devices. The M-Audio and Edirol have been compared in depth by
I don't even know how many people, each has it's positives and negatives,
google up some of these comparisons and decide for yourself, if someone else
chooses you've got a 50% chance of getting the wrong one for you.
Joe

Edirol won by a landslide.

Julian

[Mike Rivers]

J wrote:

Which is a better choice for live recording in concerts

It depends on how you're going to be recording those concerts. Perhaps
none of them.

taking notes

The cheapest one

etc.

The one that's left.

YOU need to study this out further, looking at the features, user
interface, input connectors, performance of built-in mics, type of
flash memory card used, and narrow down just what you really want to do
most of the time, and how much of a bother you'll put up with when
doing something else.

For example, will you only be using built-in mics or will you be using
external mics? Would you use external mics if the built-in mics don't
sound good enough? Do you have mics or do you have to add this to your
cost? (I assume that's a concern since you pointed out which one was
cheapest)

When you have your requirements narrowed down (and "which one sounds
the best?" doesn't count) ask more detailed questions and you might get
some better guidance.

Or you coudl just buy the Edirol because it seems that there are fewer
things to dislike by most people. There aren't enough of the Zoom HR4
recorders around in this community for there to have been a very
comprehensive review. That one is most attractive to me because it has
XLR mc connectors and phantom power (I'd frequently use external mics)
but that doesn't matter if the preamps are noisy, gain control isn't
effective, or the sound just isn't very good. Maybe it's OK. I don't
know yet.

[philicorda]

On Wed, 08 Nov 2006 04:47:37 -0800, Mike Rivers wrote:


Or you coudl just buy the Edirol because it seems that there are fewer
things to dislike by most people. There aren't enough of the Zoom HR4
recorders around in this community for there to have been a very
comprehensive review. That one is most attractive to me because it has
XLR mc connectors and phantom power (I'd frequently use external mics)
but that doesn't matter if the preamps are noisy, gain control isn't
effective, or the sound just isn't very good. Maybe it's OK. I don't
know yet.

Someone brought an HR4 to the studio the other day.
They took it back to the shop the day after.

The good:
The internal mics sound quite nice and the noise floor is lowish.
(We tried recording the acoustic sound of an electric guitar not plugged
in across a quiet room and the noise was not objectionable)
I think it's quieter than the Edirol R1 used like this.
It seems to cope fine with a rock band in the room on the internal mics.

Four track mode is a lot of fun and quite user friendly.

The bad:
Something very wrong with the XLR inputs.
We were using it as a USB sound card to record and plugged a NT5 into it
to to a tambourine overdub. The result sounded like someone shaking a bag
of crisps, very distorted in a strange thudding way. This was even with
all the gains as low as they could go. Totally unusable. The internal mics
sounded much better on the same tambo at the same distance. Could be bad
phantom, or clipping something before the gain control, or the gain
controls are only pretend ones. I don't know.

Much of the interface is horrible. About four button clicks (on
different buttons!) to get to the gain controls. All very Zoomish and
confusing.

In USB mode the internal mics always monitor to the output, even when the
unit is not in record. This means you cannot use it as a USB soundcard
with the speakers on as you get feedback!

Display backlight makes whiny noises on recordings if turned on.

I'd like to hear other peoples experiences, in case we were making some
stupid operator errors. I'm still thinking of getting one as the
internal mics stereo recording sounded good, and the four track is cool.

[Mike Rivers]

philicorda wrote:
On Wed, 08 Nov 2006 04:47:37 -0800, Mike Rivers wrote:

Someone brought an HR4 to the studio the other day.
They took it back to the shop the day after.

Thanks for the news, even though it's discouraging. I would probably be
inclined ot use one just as a casural jam session recorder with the
internal mics if they sounded decent, but the results with external
mics is indeed disappointing. Maybe I'll get one to review one of these
days and look into what's going on.

Gain controls on these devices are such a pain in the ass. I can't
imagine that they think people don't need to adjust them, and that
sometimes a pad is needed. But I guess they don't want to unnecessarily
confuse the casual users (who are their biggest customer base).

[[email protected]]

One major flaw I found with the Edirol is the battery compartment
cover. The design and construction is such that one day it will
definitely break. No experience with the Zoom though I've been curious
myself.

The M-Audio is nice but it has no built in mics. One downside to it is
that the internal battery is rechargeable however if you're in the
field you can't use any other batteries with it leaviung tied to a USB
port or charger adapter to keep it running.

Currently looking at the Marantz which looks pretty nice but you pay
more for it.


J wrote:
Hi

Which is a better choice for live recording in concerts, taking notes
etc.

http://www.zzounds.com/item--MDOMICRO
http://www.zzounds.com/item--ZOMPS04
http://www.zzounds.com/item--EDIR09

Zoom is half the price.

Any other brands ?

regards

[David@liminal]

I bought the edirol thinking it would be a good replacement for my
minidisc player. I was dissapointed! I've been using soundman OKMII
binaural mics for some years, first with a sharp 702 minidisc and then
with a sony mz-n710 minidisc (both basically bottom of the range, bog
standard recorders). Given that the edirol is 24 bit and can record
uncompressed, I naively thought that it would be an improvement on
these machines. I have to say though, it isn't even on the same page!
Hiss is way higher and the sound is brittle and confused by comparison.
the inadequacies of the preamp and a/d conversion are so significant
that to my ears, it makes very little difference whether you record mp3
(160kb or higher) or uncompressed. The operating system is pretty good
and it is great just to be able to download straight to the computer -
is it really so difficult for somebody to make something as good as a
basic minidisc player? apparently it is.

DP

wrote:
One major flaw I found with the Edirol is the battery compartment
cover. The design and construction is such that one day it will
definitely break. No experience with the Zoom though I've been curious
myself.

The M-Audio is nice but it has no built in mics. One downside to it is
that the internal battery is rechargeable however if you're in the
field you can't use any other batteries with it leaviung tied to a USB
port or charger adapter to keep it running.

Currently looking at the Marantz which looks pretty nice but you pay
more for it.


J wrote:
Hi

Which is a better choice for live recording in concerts, taking notes
etc.

http://www.zzounds.com/item--MDOMICRO
http://www.zzounds.com/item--ZOMPS04
http://www.zzounds.com/item--EDIR09

Zoom is half the price.

Any other brands ?

regards

[David@liminal]

I bought the edirol thinking it would be a good replacement for my
minidisc player. I was dissapointed! I've been using soundman OKMII
binaural mics for some years, first with a sharp 702 minidisc and then
with a sony mz-n710 minidisc (both basically bottom of the range, bog
standard recorders). Given that the edirol is 24 bit and can record
uncompressed, I naively thought that it would be an improvement on
these machines. I have to say though, it isn't even on the same page!
Hiss is way higher and the sound is brittle and confused by comparison.
the inadequacies of the preamp and a/d conversion are so significant
that to my ears, it makes very little difference whether you record mp3
(160kb or higher) or uncompressed. The operating system is pretty good
and it is great just to be able to download straight to the computer -
is it really so difficult for somebody to make something as good as a
basic minidisc player? apparently it is.

DP

wrote:
One major flaw I found with the Edirol is the battery compartment
cover. The design and construction is such that one day it will
definitely break. No experience with the Zoom though I've been curious
myself.

The M-Audio is nice but it has no built in mics. One downside to it is
that the internal battery is rechargeable however if you're in the
field you can't use any other batteries with it leaviung tied to a USB
port or charger adapter to keep it running.

Currently looking at the Marantz which looks pretty nice but you pay
more for it.


J wrote:
Hi

Which is a better choice for live recording in concerts, taking notes
etc.

http://www.zzounds.com/item--MDOMICRO
http://www.zzounds.com/item--ZOMPS04
http://www.zzounds.com/item--EDIR09

Zoom is half the price.

Any other brands ?

regards

[Mike Rivers]

David@liminal wrote:

I've been using soundman OKMII
binaural mics for some years, first with a sharp 702 minidisc and then
with a sony mz-n710 minidisc (both basically bottom of the range, bog
standard recorders). Given that the edirol is 24 bit and can record
uncompressed, I naively thought that it would be an improvement on
these machines. I have to say though, it isn't even on the same page!
Hiss is way higher and the sound is brittle and confused by comparison.

Do your mics require power? And does the R-09 provide the right type of
power? Most minidisks provide 3V "plug in power" for a certain type of
condenser mics that are typically used with that sort of recorder. If
your mics require that powering configuration (I don't knkow) and if
the recorder doesn't provide it (I don't know that either, but it
appears to do so based on the accessory microphone that Edirol offers)
then you might indeed get the sort of performance that you describe.

I don't know much, but I know enough to read the manuals - all of the
manuals - and figure out what my equipment needs for proper
interfacing.

I have Jukebox 3 and it's totally useless with a microphone because it
doesn't provide any powering and its gain structure is all wrong, but
that's what you get when you make a mic preamp in software. I suspect
that Edirol is smarter.

[[email protected]]

"Mike Rivers" wrote:

David@liminal wrote:

I've been using soundman OKMII
binaural mics for some years, first with a sharp 702 minidisc and then
with a sony mz-n710 minidisc (both basically bottom of the range, bog
standard recorders). Given that the edirol is 24 bit and can record
uncompressed, I naively thought that it would be an improvement on
these machines. I have to say though, it isn't even on the same page!
Hiss is way higher and the sound is brittle and confused by comparison.

Do your mics require power? And does the R-09 provide the right type of
power? Most minidisks provide 3V "plug in power" for a certain type of
condenser mics that are typically used with that sort of recorder. If
your mics require that powering configuration (I don't knkow) and if
the recorder doesn't provide it (I don't know that either, but it
appears to do so based on the accessory microphone that Edirol offers)
then you might indeed get the sort of performance that you describe.

The R09 provides 5V plug-in power.
gerry [http://homepage.eircom.net/~gerfmcc/audio.html]

[[email protected]]

wrote:

One major flaw I found with the Edirol is the battery compartment
cover. The design and construction is such that one day it will
definitely break.

I'm not convinced of that; I've had one for a few months and although
I agree the cover is somewhat delicate I haven't had a problem with it
despite opening it every other day to remove the card and transfer
recordings to a laptop (a card reader makes the process very fast).
gerry [http://homepage.eircom.net/~gerfmcc/audio.html]

[[email protected]]

wrote:
wrote:

One major flaw I found with the Edirol is the battery compartment
cover. The design and construction is such that one day it will
definitely break.

I'm not convinced of that; I've had one for a few months and although
I agree the cover is somewhat delicate I haven't had a problem with it
despite opening it every other day to remove the card and transfer
recordings to a laptop (a card reader makes the process very fast).
gerry [http://homepage.eircom.net/~gerfmcc/audio.html]

That's good to know. I'm especially persnickety about construction
details. I work at a pretty large radio facility and the broadcasters
aren't terribly kind to the gear so it has to be pretty much
bulletproof. Especially if it's something that I can't repair which
makes the unit unusable.

[Laurence Payne]

On 13 Nov 2006 16:05:44 -0800, wrote:

One major flaw I found with the Edirol is the battery compartment
cover. The design and construction is such that one day it will
definitely break.

I'm not convinced of that; I've had one for a few months and although
I agree the cover is somewhat delicate I haven't had a problem with it
despite opening it every other day to remove the card and transfer
recordings to a laptop (a card reader makes the process very fast).
gerry [http://homepage.eircom.net/~gerfmcc/audio.html]

That's good to know. I'm especially persnickety about construction
details. I work at a pretty large radio facility and the broadcasters
aren't terribly kind to the gear so it has to be pretty much
bulletproof. Especially if it's something that I can't repair which
makes the unit unusable.

I thought battery covers ALWAYS held on with gaffer tape? :-)