[coreybenson]

Running a modestly successful project studio, recording everything from
advertising voiceovers to Ska, Punk and Metal, straight on into female
folk singers. In other words, we record about every source you could
think of, at many different skill levels. We're on the high end of
"reasonably" priced in our area for project studios, but on the low end
of PRO studios.

The studio is located in my home's basement, and comprises three rooms
plus a restroom. We have 7.5' ceilings throughout. Performance room
measures 11' 6" by 10', the Control room is 7' 6" by 10', and the
lounge takes up the balance of the 600 sq ft basement, minus a small
furnace room and the restroom (a 3/4 bath that sometimes operates as a
vocal booth, of course! lol).

Here's my current microphone list:

6 Shure Beta-56 Drum Microphones
2 Shure Beat-52 Kick Microphones
2 Shure Beta-58 Vocal Microphones
2 Shure SM-58 Vocal Microphones
6 Shure SM-57 Microphones
5 Shure SM-98A Condensor Microphones
1 Electrovoice 747 Vocal Microphone
1 Electrovoice RE-20 Microphone
3 Sennheiser 421 Microphones
1 Sennheiser e609 Microphone
2 Marshall MXL-990 Condensor Microphones
1 Marshall MXL-909 Condensor Microphone
4 Audio Technica M1000 Blue Condensor Microphones
1 Alesis/GT AM61 Tube Microphone
4 Oktava MC012 Condensor Microphones (two are about to be modified with
the Scott Dorsey mod)
1 Audio Technica ATM-25

While I have good luck with the current microphones, I don't have
anything I'd consider a "flagship" mic, and I've had people NOT come
work with us because of this.

So, knowing what we do, if you had a small pile of money to throw at
it, what would you consider for a do-it-all high quality mic? Neumann
U87? AKG 414 (I actually don't like them!)? Neumann TLM149? Some other
high buck mic?

The key is wow factor, but I'd like to get a Swiss Army knife mic if
possible. Even better would be two of them, if they'd work well as
overheads on drums, etc. Every time I buy a single mic I end up kicking
myself.

Thoughts? Opinions? Tell me to shut up and just keep recording,
ignoring the gear snobs who don't know any better?

Waiting patiently to spend my hard earned money! lol

Corey Benson
www.curbsideproductions.com

[Mark]

Personally if someone didnt like your mic list, I'd tell them to go screw
themselves.

I have made cool records with only a handful of 57's and an a pair of AT
4033. But thats just me.

I think the 414XLS may be the most uselful mic in the bunch you mentioned. I
have a few and I'd love a few more.

Mark

soundmarkstudios.com
"With audio, sound is everything!"



"coreybenson" wrote in message
oups.com...
Running a modestly successful project studio, recording everything from
advertising voiceovers to Ska, Punk and Metal, straight on into female
folk singers. In other words, we record about every source you could
think of, at many different skill levels. We're on the high end of
"reasonably" priced in our area for project studios, but on the low end
of PRO studios.

The studio is located in my home's basement, and comprises three rooms
plus a restroom. We have 7.5' ceilings throughout. Performance room
measures 11' 6" by 10', the Control room is 7' 6" by 10', and the
lounge takes up the balance of the 600 sq ft basement, minus a small
furnace room and the restroom (a 3/4 bath that sometimes operates as a
vocal booth, of course! lol).

Here's my current microphone list:

6 Shure Beta-56 Drum Microphones
2 Shure Beat-52 Kick Microphones
2 Shure Beta-58 Vocal Microphones
2 Shure SM-58 Vocal Microphones
6 Shure SM-57 Microphones
5 Shure SM-98A Condensor Microphones
1 Electrovoice 747 Vocal Microphone
1 Electrovoice RE-20 Microphone
3 Sennheiser 421 Microphones
1 Sennheiser e609 Microphone
2 Marshall MXL-990 Condensor Microphones
1 Marshall MXL-909 Condensor Microphone
4 Audio Technica M1000 Blue Condensor Microphones
1 Alesis/GT AM61 Tube Microphone
4 Oktava MC012 Condensor Microphones (two are about to be modified with
the Scott Dorsey mod)
1 Audio Technica ATM-25

While I have good luck with the current microphones, I don't have
anything I'd consider a "flagship" mic, and I've had people NOT come
work with us because of this.

So, knowing what we do, if you had a small pile of money to throw at
it, what would you consider for a do-it-all high quality mic? Neumann
U87? AKG 414 (I actually don't like them!)? Neumann TLM149? Some other
high buck mic?

The key is wow factor, but I'd like to get a Swiss Army knife mic if
possible. Even better would be two of them, if they'd work well as
overheads on drums, etc. Every time I buy a single mic I end up kicking
myself.

Thoughts? Opinions? Tell me to shut up and just keep recording,
ignoring the gear snobs who don't know any better?

Waiting patiently to spend my hard earned money! lol

Corey Benson
www.curbsideproductions.com

[Mark]

---I also meant to say, I have shot out the RE20 next to many super swanky
condensors, we all know and love, and was flat out impressed.

Still am years later. Put that mic on a good voice with a good pre in a good
room and you are gonna have a good sound with nothing to apologise for.

mark
soundmarkstudios.com

"With Audio, Sound is EVERYTHING!"

[coreybenson]

Mark wrote:
Personally if someone didnt like your mic list, I'd tell them to go screw
themselves.

Well, that's pretty much what's been happening to date! lol

I have made cool records with only a handful of 57's and an a pair of AT
4033. But thats just me.

Ditto... heck, my original recording setup was 4 SM57's and 2 SM58's...
some really good recordings too! lol

I think the 414XLS may be the most uselful mic in the bunch you mentioned. I
have a few and I'd love a few more.

Thanks for the suggestion, Mark. I couldn't tell you WHICH 414 I used
back in the day, but they always seemed to have a fairly harsh top end
to me. I have that in spades right now! lol

I'm looking forward to hearing what other people suggest... and their
reasons for the suggestions. I think it'll be illuminating.

Corey

[coreybenson]

Mark wrote:
---I also meant to say, I have shot out the RE20 next to many super swanky
condensors, we all know and love, and was flat out impressed.

Still am years later. Put that mic on a good voice with a good pre in a good
room and you are gonna have a good sound with nothing to apologise for.

mark
soundmarkstudios.com

"With Audio, Sound is EVERYTHING!"

Love my RE20 enough to have recently had it rebuilt... looks brand new,
sounds FANTASTIC! What a great mic!

Corey

[Michael Wozniak]

"coreybenson" wrote in message
oups.com...
Mark wrote:
Personally if someone didnt like your mic list, I'd tell them to go screw
themselves.

Well, that's pretty much what's been happening to date! lol

I have made cool records with only a handful of 57's and an a pair of AT
4033. But thats just me.

Ditto... heck, my original recording setup was 4 SM57's and 2 SM58's...
some really good recordings too! lol

I think the 414XLS may be the most uselful mic in the bunch you
mentioned. I
have a few and I'd love a few more.

Thanks for the suggestion, Mark. I couldn't tell you WHICH 414 I used
back in the day, but they always seemed to have a fairly harsh top end
to me. I have that in spades right now! lol

I'm looking forward to hearing what other people suggest... and their
reasons for the suggestions. I think it'll be illuminating.

Corey

AT4050s, Soundeluxe U195s, maybe Neumann 184s or 84s. Maybe an older 414.

Mikey
Nova Music Productions

[jowillie]

If you are saying clients are not booking because they don't like your
mic list....then you are going to have to get the "up-front" brand that
the majority will recognize. That's called Image Marketing. Totally
useless but looks good and gets business.
I would say from experience that it will propbably be a Nuemann.
However, the Microtech Gefell line is a little more bang for the buck
and can be "explained-off" as the real Nuemann replacement. Besides,
some people belive they are a better deal.

If it were me, I get the superfalous mic and then use the Heil PR-40
dynamic to impress them with how good they could really sound.
Good luck. Let us know how you do.

[Mike Rivers]

coreybenson wrote:
While I have good luck with the current microphones, I don't have
anything I'd consider a "flagship" mic, and I've had people NOT come
work with us because of this.

So, knowing what we do, if you had a small pile of money to throw at
it, what would you consider for a do-it-all high quality mic? Neumann
U87? AKG 414 (I actually don't like them!)? Neumann TLM149? Some other
high buck mic?

Been there, done that, bought a couple of U87s, some C451s, KM84s,
M160s, M260s, MD421s, M88s, and one lone C414. The difference between
you and me is that when I bought my U87s, they cost me $550 each. But
there weren't any $300 large condenser mics back then.

With prices the way they are now, if you have a potential client who
wants a particular mic, tell him "No problem, I'll rent it."

Just be sure that it's your mic collection that's keeping them away and
not something else. When I first started buying decent mics, I still
had a TASCAM console and 80-8 8-track recorder. The mics I owned put me
a notch above the other TASCAM studios that usually didn't get much
notice from outside clients.

[Mike Rivers]

coreybenson wrote:
While I have good luck with the current microphones, I don't have
anything I'd consider a "flagship" mic, and I've had people NOT come
work with us because of this.

So, knowing what we do, if you had a small pile of money to throw at
it, what would you consider for a do-it-all high quality mic? Neumann
U87? AKG 414 (I actually don't like them!)? Neumann TLM149? Some other
high buck mic?

Been there, done that, bought a couple of U87s, some C451s, KM84s,
M160s, M260s, MD421s, M88s, and one lone C414. The difference between
you and me is that when I bought my U87s, they cost me $550 each. But
there weren't any $300 large condenser mics back then.

With prices the way they are now, if you have a potential client who
wants a particular mic, tell him "No problem, I'll rent it."

Just be sure that it's your mic collection that's keeping them away and
not something else. When I first started buying decent mics, I still
had a TASCAM console and 80-8 8-track recorder. The mics I owned put me
a notch above the other TASCAM studios that usually didn't get much
notice from outside clients.

[Geoff]

coreybenson wrote:
Running a modestly successful project studio, recording everything
from advertising voiceovers to Ska, Punk and Metal, straight on into
female folk singers. In other words, we record about every source you


You could possibly do with something a bit 'different' in nature to what you
already have.

Maybe an SE or Rode tube or other LDC mic. I love my K2.

geoff

[david correia]

In article .com,
"coreybenson" wrote:

I think the 414XLS may be the most uselful mic in the bunch you mentioned. I
have a few and I'd love a few more.

Thanks for the suggestion, Mark. I couldn't tell you WHICH 414 I used
back in the day, but they always seemed to have a fairly harsh top end
to me. I have that in spades right now! lol


Stick a 414b-uls in a nice mic pre like a gml or an Amek 9098 pre/eq or
Channel In A Box and you'll really like the top on it. Stick a U87 into
a Mackie and it will sound like a cheezier mic than it is.

Have you thought instead about buying a great mic pre or combo pre/eq?
I've owned a pair of Amek/Neve 9098 pre/eq's for years, and they still
sound like the cherubim and seraphim.

The real "wow factor" that you say you are looking for will be the wide
capability of great sounds you can get with one of these.




David Correia
www.Celebrationsound.com

[[email protected]]

From what I hear on other forums the name the
potential client is looking for is Neumann mostly.

I have heard the TLM103 on female vocals
and, compared to cheaper mic's, it did sound
good. But I have seen it mentioned, too, that the 103
isn't as good as the other Neumanns and
may not be worth the $1000 (or whatever
the current going retail is).

[Paul Stamler]

"coreybenson" wrote in message
oups.com...

So, knowing what we do, if you had a small pile of money to throw at
it, what would you consider for a do-it-all high quality mic? Neumann
U87? AKG 414 (I actually don't like them!)? Neumann TLM149? Some other
high buck mic?

The key is wow factor, but I'd like to get a Swiss Army knife mic if
possible. Even better would be two of them, if they'd work well as
overheads on drums, etc. Every time I buy a single mic I end up kicking
myself.

Microtech Gefell. M930, or the 3-pattern UMT70S if you think you'll use the
other patterns. Get the matched pair if you get the M930s -- they make
*very* good drum overheads. I like the M930 better than the U87 (with the
latter in cardioid); it does all the nice things the U87 does, and not the
bad things (like the cruddy off-axis response).

Peace,
Paul

[Jürgen Schöpf]

I think the C414B-ULS (not build anymore) are the most versatile mics in
a studio and can be bought for reasonable prices on eBay although it
will be difficult finding a pair today. But they are far more universal
than the U87 and I think you can't make a mistake having two of those
C414. As you say you don't like them and need a wow factor, I'd go for a
Neumann or a pair of Schoeps (although I don't like the latter ones... :-)
:-J

coreybenson wrote:
Running a modestly successful project studio, recording everything from
advertising voiceovers to Ska, Punk and Metal, straight on into female
folk singers. In other words, we record about every source you could
think of, at many different skill levels. We're on the high end of
"reasonably" priced in our area for project studios, but on the low end
of PRO studios.

The studio is located in my home's basement, and comprises three rooms
plus a restroom. We have 7.5' ceilings throughout. Performance room
measures 11' 6" by 10', the Control room is 7' 6" by 10', and the
lounge takes up the balance of the 600 sq ft basement, minus a small
furnace room and the restroom (a 3/4 bath that sometimes operates as a
vocal booth, of course! lol).

Here's my current microphone list:

6 Shure Beta-56 Drum Microphones
2 Shure Beat-52 Kick Microphones
2 Shure Beta-58 Vocal Microphones
2 Shure SM-58 Vocal Microphones
6 Shure SM-57 Microphones
5 Shure SM-98A Condensor Microphones
1 Electrovoice 747 Vocal Microphone
1 Electrovoice RE-20 Microphone
3 Sennheiser 421 Microphones
1 Sennheiser e609 Microphone
2 Marshall MXL-990 Condensor Microphones
1 Marshall MXL-909 Condensor Microphone
4 Audio Technica M1000 Blue Condensor Microphones
1 Alesis/GT AM61 Tube Microphone
4 Oktava MC012 Condensor Microphones (two are about to be modified with
the Scott Dorsey mod)
1 Audio Technica ATM-25

While I have good luck with the current microphones, I don't have
anything I'd consider a "flagship" mic, and I've had people NOT come
work with us because of this.

So, knowing what we do, if you had a small pile of money to throw at
it, what would you consider for a do-it-all high quality mic? Neumann
U87? AKG 414 (I actually don't like them!)? Neumann TLM149? Some other
high buck mic?

The key is wow factor, but I'd like to get a Swiss Army knife mic if
possible. Even better would be two of them, if they'd work well as
overheads on drums, etc. Every time I buy a single mic I end up kicking
myself.

Thoughts? Opinions? Tell me to shut up and just keep recording,
ignoring the gear snobs who don't know any better?

Waiting patiently to spend my hard earned money! lol

Corey Benson
www.curbsideproductions.com

[hank alrich]

wrote:

From what I hear on other forums the name the
potential client is looking for is Neumann mostly.

I have heard the TLM103 on female vocals
and, compared to cheaper mic's, it did sound
good. But I have seen it mentioned, too, that the 103
isn't as good as the other Neumanns and
may not be worth the $1000 (or whatever
the current going retail is).

By the time one buys a TLM103, one should have a decent mic pre, at
least an RNP. Mics are like clothes; sometimes they fit and sometimes
they do not. Other folks' opinions about mics may or may not have
anything to do with how you would hear those same mics in your place,
not theirs.

--
ha

[coreybenson]

david correia wrote:
In article .com,
"coreybenson" wrote:

I think the 414XLS may be the most uselful mic in the bunch you mentioned. I
have a few and I'd love a few more.

Thanks for the suggestion, Mark. I couldn't tell you WHICH 414 I used
back in the day, but they always seemed to have a fairly harsh top end
to me. I have that in spades right now! lol


Stick a 414b-uls in a nice mic pre like a gml or an Amek 9098 pre/eq or
Channel In A Box and you'll really like the top on it. Stick a U87 into
a Mackie and it will sound like a cheezier mic than it is.

Have you thought instead about buying a great mic pre or combo pre/eq?
I've owned a pair of Amek/Neve 9098 pre/eq's for years, and they still
sound like the cherubim and seraphim.

The real "wow factor" that you say you are looking for will be the wide
capability of great sounds you can get with one of these.

I have a pair of Focusrite ISA 110's (designed by Rupert Neve for Sir
George Martin) that I think are fantastic. I've barely scratched the
surface on what they can do, and they're just a Pre/EQ package.

Frankly, I don't think I NEED anything to do a better job, other than
better rooms, and those aren't in the budget! lol Better rooms would
mean buying a different house or leasing commercial space, which I
won't be doing anytime soon.

Thanks for the thoughts and info!

Corey

[coreybenson]

Mike Rivers wrote:
coreybenson wrote:
While I have good luck with the current microphones, I don't have
anything I'd consider a "flagship" mic, and I've had people NOT come
work with us because of this.

So, knowing what we do, if you had a small pile of money to throw at
it, what would you consider for a do-it-all high quality mic? Neumann
U87? AKG 414 (I actually don't like them!)? Neumann TLM149? Some other
high buck mic?

Been there, done that, bought a couple of U87s, some C451s, KM84s,
M160s, M260s, MD421s, M88s, and one lone C414. The difference between
you and me is that when I bought my U87s, they cost me $550 each. But
there weren't any $300 large condenser mics back then.

I find myself wondering (not a slam, a serious question!) how $550
compares to todays dollars... when was that, exactly? If that was
mid-60's dollars, that $550 would equate to around $2.5k, wouldn't it?
Or something like that?

With prices the way they are now, if you have a potential client who
wants a particular mic, tell him "No problem, I'll rent it."

I've done that... I do have access to some really nice mics through
another studio.

Just be sure that it's your mic collection that's keeping them away and
not something else. When I first started buying decent mics, I still
had a TASCAM console and 80-8 8-track recorder. The mics I owned put me
a notch above the other TASCAM studios that usually didn't get much
notice from outside clients.

A very good point, Mike. Thanks for the perspective!

Corey

[coreybenson]

Geoff wrote:
coreybenson wrote:
Running a modestly successful project studio, recording everything
from advertising voiceovers to Ska, Punk and Metal, straight on into
female folk singers. In other words, we record about every source you


You could possibly do with something a bit 'different' in nature to what you
already have.

Maybe an SE or Rode tube or other LDC mic. I love my K2.

geoff

Thanks for the thoughts, Geoff, but I'm really looking for wow
factor... I have enough under-$500 mics in my arsenal already.

Frankly, most vocalists sound fantastic on the Alesis AM61... that's
one seriously under-rated microphone. Very warm, yet plenty of top end,
and not harsh in any way.

Keep the ideas coming, guys! I appreciate it!

Corey

[[email protected]]

coreybenson wrote:
Geoff wrote:
coreybenson wrote:
Running a modestly successful project studio, recording everything
from advertising voiceovers to Ska, Punk and Metal, straight on into
female folk singers. In other words, we record about every source you


You could possibly do with something a bit 'different' in nature to what you
already have.

Maybe an SE or Rode tube or other LDC mic. I love my K2.

geoff

Thanks for the thoughts, Geoff, but I'm really looking for wow
factor... I have enough under-$500 mics in my arsenal already.

Frankly, most vocalists sound fantastic on the Alesis AM61... that's
one seriously under-rated microphone. Very warm, yet plenty of top end,
and not harsh in any way.

Keep the ideas coming, guys! I appreciate it!

Corey

If this is about getting a few more clients in the door then it pretty
much has to be a Neumann just because of name recognition. So looking
at your mic list I would look at pair of small diaphragm condensers to
upgrade there. However that may not be THE mic clients want to see..
They usually want to see the big monster Neumann U87, 149 etc etc.. Ask
those picky clients what mic they would expect you to have. 10 to 1
it's a U87

[Mike Rivers]

coreybenson wrote:

I find myself wondering (not a slam, a serious question!) how $550
compares to todays dollars... when was that, exactly? If that was
mid-60's dollars, that $550 would equate to around $2.5k, wouldn't it?
Or something like that?

It was around 1980 give or take a couple of years. There were second
hand, but with a fresh capsules and fully blessed by Gotham, the
Neumann distributor at the time. I think new U87s were going for about
$1,000 then, but the used market wasn't as crazy as it is now.

Bottom line, though, was that was part of the cost of doing business.
Even the TASCAM Model 5 console cost about $1500, and I think I paid
$2200 for the 80-8 second hand. Today you can get a much better mixer
and recorder for less money in today's dollars. And for $550, you can
get a mic (several choices) that would work fine any place you'd use a
U87.

But today, I'm not sure that there are that many customers who know
what a U87 is. You must be looking to make a jump up to full priced
commercial clients rather than working with starving musicians. That
can be a good thing, but it requires a serious investment, because
that's what those clients are willing to pay for, and expect to get.
The good news is that there isn't a lot of depreciation in a good
microphone, and sometimes they appreciate, so as long as you can
bankroll a purchase, your money is pretty safe even if your business
doesn't blossom immediately.

[Paul Stamler]

"coreybenson" wrote in message
ups.com...

I find myself wondering (not a slam, a serious question!) how $550
compares to todays dollars... when was that, exactly? If that was
mid-60's dollars, that $550 would equate to around $2.5k, wouldn't it?
Or something like that?

I looked at http://www.westegg.com/inflation/ ; they said "What cost $550
in 1967 would cost $3131.39 in 2005." (They only go to 2005.)

Peace,
Paul

[Paul Stamler]

If you decide it absolutely, positively has to be a Neumann, consider a U89.
Or two.

Peace,
Paul

[[email protected]]

Frankly, I don't think I NEED anything to do a better job, other than
better rooms, and those aren't in the budget! lol Better rooms would
mean buying a different house or leasing commercial space, which I
won't be doing anytime soon.


That's assuming you've already done a half decent job treating your
rooms. Have you? If not that's where I'd put my money.

[coreybenson]

wrote:

Frankly, I don't think I NEED anything to do a better job, other than
better rooms, and those aren't in the budget! lol Better rooms would
mean buying a different house or leasing commercial space, which I
won't be doing anytime soon.


That's assuming you've already done a half decent job treating your
rooms. Have you? If not that's where I'd put my money.

Yes... we've done quite a bit of work on treating the rooms. They sound
as good as they can for what they are. MUCH money (and time) has been
thrown at that particular problem.

A good suggestion, though... if we hadn't done any work to them yet I'd
agree that would be a fantastic place to park a pile of good-use money!

Corey

[Richard Kuschel]

coreybenson wrote:
SNIP
So, knowing what we do, if you had a small pile of money to throw at
it, what would you consider for a do-it-all high quality mic? Neumann
U87? AKG 414 (I actually don't like them!)? Neumann TLM149? Some other
high buck mic?

The key is wow factor, but I'd like to get a Swiss Army knife mic if
possible. Even better would be two of them, if they'd work well as
overheads on drums, etc. Every time I buy a single mic I end up kicking
myself.

Thoughts? Opinions? Tell me to shut up and just keep recording,
ignoring the gear snobs who don't know any better?

Waiting patiently to spend my hard earned money! lol

Corey Benson
www.curbsideproductions.com

I have 5 414's (various incarnations including an early one with a C12
Capsule and two 414B-uls.and was really thinking they were "The Bomb"
until I used a U87. There was an almost distorted sound on some male
voices that disappeared with the U87.

Unfortunately, this revalation got me into a situation in which I
started jonesing for better and different sounding microphones. My
SM81's and Audio Technicas were replaced with 451's KM84's, KM 86's,
and Km184's. I got a beautiful pair of KM83's. Then I tried some
Schoeps. "Honey, What is this bill from Posthorn for $3400?, and this
one for $3200? and this for $750? --"Just some microphones."

"HOW MANY MICROPHONES DID YOU BUY? --"Just four."

I found a bunch of wonderful UM 563's (Gefell valve mic's) to augment
the U87's and I have a highly modded UM57 with a U47 capsule & Stephen
Paul diaphragm and custom power supply that is absolutely wonderful on
most voices.

Also a few ribbons, shotguns and specialty microphones, some of which
are beautiful display pieces.

You, my friend have started on a long and slippery slope. May the ride
be fun!


"I canna' change the Law o' Physics."--Scotty

[coreybenson]

Richard Kuschel wrote:
coreybenson wrote:
SNIP
So, knowing what we do, if you had a small pile of money to throw at
it, what would you consider for a do-it-all high quality mic? Neumann
U87? AKG 414 (I actually don't like them!)? Neumann TLM149? Some other
high buck mic?

The key is wow factor, but I'd like to get a Swiss Army knife mic if
possible. Even better would be two of them, if they'd work well as
overheads on drums, etc. Every time I buy a single mic I end up kicking
myself.

Thoughts? Opinions? Tell me to shut up and just keep recording,
ignoring the gear snobs who don't know any better?

Waiting patiently to spend my hard earned money! lol

Corey Benson
www.curbsideproductions.com

I have 5 414's (various incarnations including an early one with a C12
Capsule and two 414B-uls.and was really thinking they were "The Bomb"
until I used a U87. There was an almost distorted sound on some male
voices that disappeared with the U87.

Unfortunately, this revalation got me into a situation in which I
started jonesing for better and different sounding microphones. My
SM81's and Audio Technicas were replaced with 451's KM84's, KM 86's,
and Km184's. I got a beautiful pair of KM83's. Then I tried some
Schoeps. "Honey, What is this bill from Posthorn for $3400?, and this
one for $3200? and this for $750? --"Just some microphones."

"HOW MANY MICROPHONES DID YOU BUY? --"Just four."

I found a bunch of wonderful UM 563's (Gefell valve mic's) to augment
the U87's and I have a highly modded UM57 with a U47 capsule & Stephen
Paul diaphragm and custom power supply that is absolutely wonderful on
most voices.

Also a few ribbons, shotguns and specialty microphones, some of which
are beautiful display pieces.

You, my friend have started on a long and slippery slope. May the ride
be fun!

LOL... I must agree! When I stumbled on the Focusrite mic pre's, my
wife and I had a long talk. She's a fantastic singer, who works in the
studio quite a bit. The store let me take them home for about a month
(while they moved) and we were able to use them on a number of
projects.

At the end of the month, I really couldn't afford them, and made the
reluctant decision to return them.

Unbeknownst to me, she'd already written them a check because she liked
what they did to her voice, acoustic guitars and drum overheads.

Have I mentioned I love my wife recently?

Corey

[Geoff]

coreybenson wrote:


Thanks for the thoughts, Geoff, but I'm really looking for wow
factor... I have enough under-$500 mics in my arsenal already.

Frankly, most vocalists sound fantastic on the Alesis AM61... that's
one seriously under-rated microphone. Very warm, yet plenty of top
end, and not harsh in any way.

Keep the ideas coming, guys! I appreciate it!

I've got a U87 and a K2. Yes, sick as is seems the U87 pulls clients with
the "wow" factor (wank factor?) but the K2 sounds more better more often,
and gets used more.

geoff

[[email protected]]

coreybenson wrote:


The key is wow factor, but I'd like to get a Swiss Army knife mic if
possible. Even better would be two of them, if they'd work well as
overheads on drums, etc. Every time I buy a single mic I end up kicking
myself.

You should take a hard listen to a Soundelux U195. It has wow factor
and sounds very good.

bobs

Bob Smith
BS Studios
we organize chaos
http://www.bsstudios.com

[Edwin Hurwitz]

In article 8vP1h.6722$Wy6.5738@trnddc01,
"Mark" wrote:

Personally if someone didnt like your mic list, I'd tell them to go screw
themselves.

I have made cool records with only a handful of 57's and an a pair of AT
4033. But thats just me.

I think the 414XLS may be the most uselful mic in the bunch you mentioned. I
have a few and I'd love a few more.

Mark


I'd have to agree with Mark. Over the years (my studio work started in
the mid 80s), I've never been that crazy about 414s, but I got a 414XLS
on sale and then picked up another basically brand new for short money.
Since then, I discover that I love these mics. The only place that I
find I don't really like them all that well is with vocals. They work,
but often times, the Cascade I got free from Bayview Pro Audio seems
better suited to male vocals. While 414s are well known and look
familiar, I wouldn't get one for vocal wow factor. I'm still looking for
that killer vocal mike (as nice is the Cascade is for some people, it's
definitely not the one).


Just my 02c.
Edwin

[Edwin Hurwitz]

In article 2yP1h.6724$Wy6.5873@trnddc01,
"Mark" wrote:

---I also meant to say, I have shot out the RE20 next to many super swanky
condensors, we all know and love, and was flat out impressed.

Still am years later. Put that mic on a good voice with a good pre in a good
room and you are gonna have a good sound with nothing to apologise for.

mark
soundmarkstudios.com

"With Audio, Sound is EVERYTHING!"

What he said! I love the RE20! When I was at Berklee getting my first
exposure to gear of this stature, people would think I would be nuts to
pull out the RE20 instead of the U87 for a vocalist. Until they heard
the results, that is!


Edwin

[Edwin Hurwitz]

In article .com,
"coreybenson" wrote:

Mark wrote:
---I also meant to say, I have shot out the RE20 next to many super swanky
condensors, we all know and love, and was flat out impressed.

Still am years later. Put that mic on a good voice with a good pre in a good
room and you are gonna have a good sound with nothing to apologise for.

mark
soundmarkstudios.com

"With Audio, Sound is EVERYTHING!"

Love my RE20 enough to have recently had it rebuilt... looks brand new,
sounds FANTASTIC! What a great mic!

Corey

Mine looks like hell, but is brand new from top to bottom. Sounds great
and people will be less tempted to run off with it.

It was an ebay buy that ended up being a money loser after I got it and
had to get it refurbed. EV did do a great job and got it back to me
within 10 days with a response plot.

It's mic that younger folks seem not to know about.
Edwin

[[email protected]]

On 2006-11-01 said:
If this is about getting a few more clients in the door then it
pretty much has to be a Neumann just because of name recognition.
So looking at your mic list I would look at pair of small diaphragm
condensers to upgrade there. However that may not be THE mic
clients want to see.. They usually want to see the big monster
Neumann U87, 149 etc etc.. Ask those picky clients what mic they
would expect you to have. 10 to 1 it's a U87

I'd agree with this, as I"ve seen it before. If you've the
u87 where they can see it when they come for a visit then
that'll help them decide to book with you. 505 chance
you'll use something else for the vocal sessions, but if
you've got the u87 they'll book the session.
MOst of them have just seen a pic in a mag or one on TV
anyway, but it's the name they recognize.



Richard webb,
Electric Spider Productions
Replace anything before the @ symbol with elspider for real
email address.

[Kurt Albershardt]

coreybenson wrote:

Here's my current microphone list:
... ... ...

If you want to make better recordings on a wide range of material, you
should seriously consider a topnotch pair of small diaphragm condensers.
Think Schoeps, Neumann, Josephson, or possibly AKG (mod C460Bs?)

If you want to lure pop/rock clients, the aforementioned U87 and similar
LDC recommendations are pretty much spot on.

[[email protected]]

AT4050s, Soundeluxe U195s, maybe Neumann 184s or 84s. Maybe an older 414.

Mikey
Nova Music Productions

I think a way to look at it is this. When Johnny Rottenseed
and his bandmates are back at the flat
discussing the options in studios, what names
are most of the guys going to know?

"OK, this guy Corey has a [Soundelux] [Neumann]
[AKG] [Audio Technica] [Rode]."

[david correia]

In article . com,
"coreybenson" wrote:

david correia wrote:
In article .com,
"coreybenson" wrote:

I think the 414XLS may be the most uselful mic in the bunch you
mentioned. I
have a few and I'd love a few more.

Thanks for the suggestion, Mark. I couldn't tell you WHICH 414 I used
back in the day, but they always seemed to have a fairly harsh top end
to me. I have that in spades right now! lol


Stick a 414b-uls in a nice mic pre like a gml or an Amek 9098 pre/eq or
Channel In A Box and you'll really like the top on it. Stick a U87 into
a Mackie and it will sound like a cheezier mic than it is.

Have you thought instead about buying a great mic pre or combo pre/eq?
I've owned a pair of Amek/Neve 9098 pre/eq's for years, and they still
sound like the cherubim and seraphim.

The real "wow factor" that you say you are looking for will be the wide
capability of great sounds you can get with one of these.

I have a pair of Focusrite ISA 110's (designed by Rupert Neve for Sir
George Martin) that I think are fantastic. I've barely scratched the
surface on what they can do, and they're just a Pre/EQ package.



An engineer is a sound sculptor. Just twiddle them dials on the 110 til
you wet your pants.

So if it's mics for ya, I own a pair of 87's and a pair of SD U195's,
and I def use the U195's more. Plus, they are about 1/2 the price of an
87.





David Correia
www.Celebrationsound.com

[[email protected]]

There's a test right now that some guy just posted in the
Gearslutz "So Much Gear" section where
you can compare the 87 to the 103 for male
vocals.

I thought the 87 had a lot more clarity and detail than the 103.

[drichard]

Hi Corey,

If the "wow" factor is what you're looking for, and you want a Swiss
army knife, just get one or two U87's and be done. The Neumann name is
a known high-end commodity. Otherwise, get a different Neumanns, such
as the TLM103.

At this point, sound is not the motivation, name recognition is.
Neumann wins, since it is known universally as a high-end mic. And
Neumanns will also sound good.

Dean



coreybenson wrote:
Running a modestly successful project studio, recording everything from
advertising voiceovers to Ska, Punk and Metal, straight on into female
folk singers. In other words, we record about every source you could
think of, at many different skill levels. We're on the high end of
"reasonably" priced in our area for project studios, but on the low end
of PRO studios.

The studio is located in my home's basement, and comprises three rooms
plus a restroom. We have 7.5' ceilings throughout. Performance room
measures 11' 6" by 10', the Control room is 7' 6" by 10', and the
lounge takes up the balance of the 600 sq ft basement, minus a small
furnace room and the restroom (a 3/4 bath that sometimes operates as a
vocal booth, of course! lol).

Here's my current microphone list:

6 Shure Beta-56 Drum Microphones
2 Shure Beat-52 Kick Microphones
2 Shure Beta-58 Vocal Microphones
2 Shure SM-58 Vocal Microphones
6 Shure SM-57 Microphones
5 Shure SM-98A Condensor Microphones
1 Electrovoice 747 Vocal Microphone
1 Electrovoice RE-20 Microphone
3 Sennheiser 421 Microphones
1 Sennheiser e609 Microphone
2 Marshall MXL-990 Condensor Microphones
1 Marshall MXL-909 Condensor Microphone
4 Audio Technica M1000 Blue Condensor Microphones
1 Alesis/GT AM61 Tube Microphone
4 Oktava MC012 Condensor Microphones (two are about to be modified with
the Scott Dorsey mod)
1 Audio Technica ATM-25

While I have good luck with the current microphones, I don't have
anything I'd consider a "flagship" mic, and I've had people NOT come
work with us because of this.

So, knowing what we do, if you had a small pile of money to throw at
it, what would you consider for a do-it-all high quality mic? Neumann
U87? AKG 414 (I actually don't like them!)? Neumann TLM149? Some other
high buck mic?

The key is wow factor, but I'd like to get a Swiss Army knife mic if
possible. Even better would be two of them, if they'd work well as
overheads on drums, etc. Every time I buy a single mic I end up kicking
myself.

Thoughts? Opinions? Tell me to shut up and just keep recording,
ignoring the gear snobs who don't know any better?

Waiting patiently to spend my hard earned money! lol

Corey Benson
www.curbsideproductions.com

[Mike Rivers]

drichard wrote:
At this point, sound is not the motivation, name recognition is.
Neumann wins, since it is known universally as a high-end mic. And
Neumanns will also sound good.

I know that there are people here who say they rarely use U87s, mostly
in favor of newer, less expensive, and somewhat special-purpose mics,
but I still use my U87s every chance I get. While there may be another
mic that sounds different in a better sort of way, it's rare that I set
up a U87 and decide that I just can't use it. I'm into getting working
sounds, not wasting time trying half a dozen mics. Life's too short.

[coreybenson]

Mike Rivers wrote:
drichard wrote:
At this point, sound is not the motivation, name recognition is.
Neumann wins, since it is known universally as a high-end mic. And
Neumanns will also sound good.

I know that there are people here who say they rarely use U87s, mostly
in favor of newer, less expensive, and somewhat special-purpose mics,
but I still use my U87s every chance I get. While there may be another
mic that sounds different in a better sort of way, it's rare that I set
up a U87 and decide that I just can't use it. I'm into getting working
sounds, not wasting time trying half a dozen mics. Life's too short.

Well, once again my thoughts are born out by discussing it with this
groupl. Now to find $3k I just don't need! lol

Corey

[[email protected]]

MIke RIvers wrote:
drichard wrote:
At this point, sound is not the motivation, name recognition is.
Neumann wins, since it is known universally as a high-end mic. And
Neumanns will also sound good.
I know that there are people here who say they rarely use U87s,
mostly in favor of newer, less expensive, and somewhat
special-purpose mics, but I still use my U87s every chance I get.
While there may be another mic that sounds different in a better
sort of way, it's rare that I set up a U87 and decide that I just
can't use it. I'm into getting working sounds, not wasting time
trying half a dozen mics. Life's too short.
Agreed, but a lot of people work where they'll try this and
that. THat's why I stated that COry might find himself using
something else 50% of the time. HOwever, if I'm looking to
use your studio the 87 tells me you've probably got a decent
mic locker and we're not going to be farting around seeing
which is the best chinese knock off for the singer's voice.
IF they see the 87 at least they'll trust your judgment when
you decide you really should hang something else on that
source from the get go.


IF I'm choosing a studio a good mic locker is a big part of
the equation, but I'm looking for good rooms and for my own
uses a decent piano that's well maintained. IF I was going
to play the electronic keyboard I'd just do it at home and
take mastering to a good control room somewhere else. tHis
is one of the reasons we're building a mobile. Capture the
client in a space of his or her choice, let 'em cut and
paste to death on their dawe in their basement later.
What we don't have in the mic locker we'll rent.



Richard webb,
Electric Spider Productions
Replace anything before the @ symbol with elspider for real
email address.