"TonyP" wrote in message
. net...
Robert Morein wrote:

"SAIL LOCO" wrote in message
...

I'm surprised how much you guys seem to endorse corporal
punishment.

All one has to do is look how kids that grew up in the era of corporal
punishment turned out compared to the young "adults" of today. And it
will
even get worse. Teachers today call parents to inform them of little
Leroy's
actions and the parents show up at school looking to beat up the
teacher.

I'm not ruling out corporal punishment. Please reread what I wrote.

It seemed that way.

All I'm saying is, we transfer our wisdom to our kids by communicating
with
them. Corporal punishment does not do this. Sure, if for some reason,
there
has been a communications failure, then you may have to spank them. Then
go
back and ask yourself, "How did this comm failure occur, and what can I
do
to bring my kids closer to me?"

Or... have you thought that the kid just wanted to do what the kid
wanted to do inspite of what you said?

Mostly, that happens when you give the child rules, but don't make him part
of your world. You have to teach your child by example, by how you conduct
your life. Too many parents keep their children at arms length. Let your
child feel your pain; feel your joy.

As far as the type of corporal punishment, the object should be
humilation.
When I hear people speak of wanting to "beat" their kid, this crosses
the
line. This is teaching brutality. Sure, you may curb the current
misbehavior, but at a terrible cost later, at the core of your child's
misbehavior.

Really. Re-read the above reply to you. I never heard of a spanking that
didn't hurt.

A moderate spanking is not very painful. It is humiliating.


Usually, a child's misbehavior is a rebellion against the rules that
have been set in place. Break the rules, there are consequences (gee,
just like in real life!). If you know the consequences and are willing
the break the rules anyway, you bring upon *yourself* the punishment
that was clearly expressed before hand.

That is law, not parenting. As we progress from childhood to adulthood, we
enter a world that does run according to unfeeling statutes. If you commit a
crime, you are punished. However, such a system is not appropriate for
raising a child. Too many men think that childrearing is about setting rules
and demanding compliance. But they don't understand that the more important
part of parenting is nurturing.

Nurturing is not reserved for women. Nurturing means that you provide all
the emotional support and framework that helps your child grow. Nurturing
includes all kinds of positive reinforcement.

It's a shame that with all this talk of hitting and beating one's children,
no one has described what they do to nuture their child; to help him grow;
to help him develop positive attitudes, to make him feel good about himself,
and to make him feel part of the adult world as early as possible.







Personally, I was spanked exactly once, when I was four years old.
However,
I was "punished" many times, while growing up, by sheer guilt at the
various
shortfalls that all kids have in becoming adults. And my conscience grew
large, which is a tribute to my parents.

And, the spanking made you into a deranged person.

In article ,
"Robert Morein" wrote:


A moderate spanking is not very painful. It is humiliating.


It is only humiliating if the child lets it be...in todays society many
a child will brag to their friends that they made you fly off the handle
or that the spanking didn't hurt in the least.



It's a shame that with all this talk of hitting and beating one's children,
no one has described what they do to nuture their child; to help him grow;
to help him develop positive attitudes, to make him feel good about himself,
and to make him feel part of the adult world as early as possible.

it's obvious that you needed more nurturing as you've never learned to
admit that forging someones email addy is wrong.

no useful info:


In article ,
"Robert Morein" wrote:


A moderate spanking is not very painful. It is humiliating.


It is only humiliating if the child lets it be...in todays society many
a child will brag to their friends that they made you fly off the handle
or that the spanking didn't hurt in the least.



This may well be the case. To assume that a spanking is (a) painful and not
wanted, or (b) humiliating but a desired way to get a parent's attention - or
control the parent, as you suggest - is very much a function of the child's
needs and perceptions of his parents. IOW, it is not valid to generalize,
given the wide range of individual differences.

That said, it is generally held by most psychologists - based on empirical
research - that corporal punishment even if mild is simply a means of modeling
aggressive behavior which the child may very well imitate in later adult life.
It is no secret that most adult child abusers have a history of *being* abused
as children themselves.

It is also the case that the most effective way to change undesired,
inappropriate behavior of children is to apply a negative consequence reliably
and repeatedly to the behavior targeted. That negative consequence, in
learning theory terms, may be either a punishment (which would have to be
empirically defined for a given child), or a negative reinforcement (defined as
the removal of a rewarding consequence). Another option, of course, frequently
effective with younger children, but hard to apply consistently by most
parents, is extinction, in which the response to be eliminated is *not*
responded to at all during repeated attempts by the child to get attention.
"Time Out From Reinforcement" represents a variant of extinction in which the
child, for example, after misbehaving or throwing a temper tantrum, is placed
in a room with little if any rewarding stimul in the environment for a
specified period of time for each infraction. During that time, no attention
is paid to the child. Again, the goal is to extinguish the inappropriate
behavior.




It's a shame that with all this talk of hitting and beating one's children,
no one has described what they do to nuture their child; to help him grow;
to help him develop positive attitudes, to make him feel good about
himself,
and to make him feel part of the adult world as early as possible.


I recommend that those in need of nurturing and unconditional positive regard
(Rogerians) plan on posting on audio subjects on RAO - especially vinyl and
tubes.




it's obvious that you needed more nurturing as you've never learned to
admit that forging someones email addy is wrong.









Bruce J. Richman

"no useful info" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"Robert Morein" wrote:


A moderate spanking is not very painful. It is humiliating.


It is only humiliating if the child lets it be...in todays society many
a child will brag to their friends that they made you fly off the handle
or that the spanking didn't hurt in the least.



It's a shame that with all this talk of hitting and beating one's
children,
no one has described what they do to nuture their child; to help him
grow;
to help him develop positive attitudes, to make him feel good about
himself,
and to make him feel part of the adult world as early as possible.

it's obvious that you needed more nurturing as you've never learned to
admit that forging someones email addy is wrong.

Let me make something clear: I am taking over the address "no useful info".
You can share it with me if you like.
If you think you have a legal claim, pursue it in court.

"no useful info" wrote in message
...

"no useful info" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"Robert Morein" wrote:


A moderate spanking is not very painful. It is humiliating.


It is only humiliating if the child lets it be...in todays society many
a child will brag to their friends that they made you fly off the handle
or that the spanking didn't hurt in the least.



It's a shame that with all this talk of hitting and beating one's
children,
no one has described what they do to nuture their child; to help him
grow;
to help him develop positive attitudes, to make him feel good about
himself,
and to make him feel part of the adult world as early as possible.

it's obvious that you needed more nurturing as you've never learned to
admit that forging someones email addy is wrong.

Let me make something clear: I am taking over the address "no useful
info".
You can share it with me if you like.
If you think you have a legal claim, pursue it in court.

PS: Remember, I continue to offer you a truce, for which I ask very little:
1.Do not participate in responses to my threads.
2.Leave my questions alone.
3. Do not belittle me or my questions.

If you agree, I will cease using the name "no useful info."

"Robert Morein" wrote in message
...
....
1.Do not participate in responses to my threads.
2.Leave my questions alone.
3. Do not belittle me or my questions.

Crap, man, where is the fun in that?

In article ,
"Fred B. McGalliard" wrote:

"Robert Morein" wrote in message
...
...
1.Do not participate in responses to my threads.
2.Leave my questions alone.
3. Do not belittle me or my questions.

Crap, man, where is the fun in that?



bobbie is a sick anti-semite. you'd think that after having had his
email addy hijacked he would know better than to do it himself.

he probably has self-esteem issues because he was only a PhD "candidate"
in engineering, apparently not being able to accomplish his thesis and
get his degree.

btw, ream him on the reactor rods thread.

In article ,
"Robert Morein" wrote:

"no useful info" wrote in message
...

"no useful info" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"Robert Morein" wrote:


A moderate spanking is not very painful. It is humiliating.


It is only humiliating if the child lets it be...in todays society many
a child will brag to their friends that they made you fly off the handle
or that the spanking didn't hurt in the least.



It's a shame that with all this talk of hitting and beating one's
children,
no one has described what they do to nuture their child; to help him
grow;
to help him develop positive attitudes, to make him feel good about
himself,
and to make him feel part of the adult world as early as possible.

it's obvious that you needed more nurturing as you've never learned to
admit that forging someones email addy is wrong.

Let me make something clear: I am taking over the address "no useful
info".
You can share it with me if you like.
If you think you have a legal claim, pursue it in court.

PS: Remember, I continue to offer you a truce, for which I ask very little:
1.Do not participate in responses to my threads.
2.Leave my questions alone.
3. Do not belittle me or my questions.

If you agree, I will cease using the name "no useful info."





you are an anti-semitic forger. you are scum that uses the word
"technically" to excuse your attempted theft of my name, a tactic that
only lawyers, politicians and criminals use. you use that word as if it
is an excuse for your behaviour. your attempts at hijacking my email are
no different than identity theft. steal my identity, steal my heritage.
go back to burning crosses on someone elses yard.


I will not agree to any truce until you forthrightly and truthfully
apologize for what you have done and admit that forging anothers email
address is wrong. your inability to see your error in judgement leads me
to believe that the reason you state you were a Ph.D. candidate is that
you didn't have the moral fortitude required to finish the requirements.
Play your game, but I will cross-post every one of your posts to any
group you frequent and your reputation will suffer. suffer more than it
currently does

1. The are not your threads.
2. Your questions are idiotic, especially since you were a PhD candidate
in engineering.
3. Your idiotic questions deserve belittling.
4. Remember if you are capable of it that I provided more links to info
than anyone else thereby establishing my right to belittle your further
idiotic questions.
5. Have you even drafted a preliminary set of plans for your wooden box?
6. Ask a question on usenet, be prepared for the answers...even if you
don't like them.
7. Continued use of my nym and email addy will only result in the
diminuation of your credibility.
8. Bite me.

Robert Morein wrote:

"TonyP" wrote in message
. net...

Or... have you thought that the kid just wanted to do what the kid
wanted to do inspite of what you said?

Mostly, that happens when you give the child rules, but don't make him part
of your world. You have to teach your child by example, by how you conduct
your life. Too many parents keep their children at arms length. Let your
child feel your pain; feel your joy.

Everyone has to follow rules, whether they agree with them or not. And,
if you don't and are caught, there will be a price to pay. Of course,
you lead by example to your children. You can't say don't drink and
guzzle beer by the barrel in front of them. Still, children will test
the limits of their environment to see how much they can get away with.
That is where the rules and 'laws' come in. Break them, these are the
consequences. Quite simple.

As far as the type of corporal punishment, the object should be humilation.
When I hear people speak of wanting to "beat" their kid, this crosses the
line. This is teaching brutality. Sure, you may curb the current
misbehavior, but at a terrible cost later, at the core of your child's
misbehavior.

Really. Re-read the above reply to you. I never heard of a spanking that
didn't hurt.

A moderate spanking is not very painful. It is humiliating.

Sure. Moderate spanking. Humiliating to who, the child? I don't think so.

Usually, a child's misbehavior is a rebellion against the rules that
have been set in place. Break the rules, there are consequences (gee,
just like in real life!). If you know the consequences and are willing
the break the rules anyway, you bring upon *yourself* the punishment
that was clearly expressed before hand.

That is law, not parenting. As we progress from childhood to adulthood, we
enter a world that does run according to unfeeling statutes. If you commit a
crime, you are punished. However, such a system is not appropriate for
raising a child. Too many men think that childrearing is about setting rules
and demanding compliance. But they don't understand that the more important
part of parenting is nurturing.

We are not talking about nurturing. You act as if corporal punishment is
wrong. It isn't. There is a time and place for it.

Nurturing is not reserved for women. Nurturing means that you provide all
the emotional support and framework that helps your child grow. Nurturing
includes all kinds of positive reinforcement.

And punishment.

It's a shame that with all this talk of hitting and beating one's children,
no one has described what they do to nuture their child; to help him grow;
to help him develop positive attitudes, to make him feel good about himself,
and to make him feel part of the adult world as early as possible.

When you have reached the point of spanking, there will be nothing
"good" about it.

Personally, I was spanked exactly once, when I was four years old. However,
I was "punished" many times, while growing up, by sheer guilt at the various
shortfalls that all kids have in becoming adults. And my conscience grew
large, which is a tribute to my parents.

Mind did to. Knowing that my father would "kill" me kept me from doing a
lot of stupid things I would have done. Otherwise, I would have turned
out like a lot of the brats you see in the mall screaming at their
parents demanding this and that. All while the parent says "please stop
that. You are making a scene." Then the kid swings at the parent. Keeps
up the tantruming until they get what they want.
Glad parenting is as wonderful as you paint it to be....


And, the spanking made you into a deranged person.

"TonyP" wrote in message
t...
Robert Morein wrote:

"TonyP" wrote in message
. net...

[snip]
Glad parenting is as wonderful as you paint it to be....


Tony, I respect your POV, and I don't believe I know everything about
parenting. Ironically, it seems as if your father had methods other than
physical punishment to keep you in line.

I'm sure you do the best for your kids.

no useful info wrote:

"TonyP" wrote in message
t...

Robert Morein wrote:

"TonyP" wrote in message
. cv.net...

[snip]

Glad parenting is as wonderful as you paint it to be....



Tony, I respect your POV, and I don't believe I know everything about
parenting. Ironically, it seems as if your father had methods other than
physical punishment to keep you in line.

I'm sure you do the best for your kids.

Sure my parents did. But that did also included corporal punishment.
Again, the fear of my father 'killing' me kept me from doing a lot of
stupid things I would have done. Not the "go to your room, no tv" thing.