On 6/23/04 17:37 AM, in article
, "Sam Byrams"
wrote:

Zip's comments about the PASS amps are of no importance to
me for this reason. (note that I say to ME, not in general- think
before you flame!)


Zip ain't commenting on anything anymore since I wacked his ass.

"Robert Morein" wrote in message
...
On 6/23/04 17:37 AM, in article
, "Sam Byrams"
wrote:

Zip's comments about the PASS amps are of no importance to
me for this reason. (note that I say to ME, not in general- think
before you flame!)


Zip ain't commenting on anything anymore since I wacked his ass.

Forgery by Brian L. McCarty.

"Sam Byrams" wrote in message
om...
Actually, there are two factor is my like of vacuum tube
amplifiers. One is that to my ears they are more pleasing to
listen to than solid state. I am very sensitive to high frequency
and find many modern speakers to be too bright. The slightly
softer highs of the typical tube amplifier are a bonus for me. I
am also not a bass freak, and thus the low frequency extension
of a tube amp, often sighted as not being as well defined as a
solid state amplifier, is not a problem. The warmth of tube
sound, and especially in the midrange, is very pleasing to me.

Second, I love the look and build of tube amplifiers. This is a
love for antique technology. Tube circuits are simple and
elegant and I just like them. A guest at my home once
commented, upon seeing my Cary 2A3, "My God!, the
unibomber has been here!" I guess I like the anachronism as
well. :-)

My love of tubes has nothing to do with science or logic. Its
personal preference. You see, even a skeptic can fancy things
that pure logic would deem "inferior" to modern designs. The
only difference is that the skeptic does not attribute supernatural
phenomenon or special properties to such products. Tube
amplifiers sound different for very cleble
reasons. Like or dislike of that difference is purely subjective
and purely personal.

Zip's comments about the PASS amps are of no importance to
me for this reason. (note that I say to ME, not in general- think
before you flame!) If it does not glow, it does not go! That's
just me.

There is no right or wrong in the tube vs. solid state debate. It is
preference, and, yes by God, it is subjective!

May we have a moment of -100dB for Zip?
Thank you.

A very nice post, and although I have not received similar satisfaction from
tubes, the diversity of tastes like yours provides us with many interesting
things to listen and ponder.

Sam Byrams a écrit :

Actually, there are two factor is my like of vacuum tube
amplifiers. One is that to my ears they are more pleasing to
listen to than solid state. I am very sensitive to high frequency
and find many modern speakers to be too bright. The slightly
softer highs of the typical tube amplifier are a bonus for me. I
am also not a bass freak, and thus the low frequency extension
of a tube amp, often sighted as not being as well defined as a
solid state amplifier, is not a problem. The warmth of tube
sound, and especially in the midrange, is very pleasing to me.

Second, I love the look and build of tube amplifiers. This is a
love for antique technology. Tube circuits are simple and
elegant and I just like them. A guest at my home once
commented, upon seeing my Cary 2A3, "My God!, the
unibomber has been here!" I guess I like the anachronism as
well. :-)

My love of tubes has nothing to do with science or logic. Its
personal preference. You see, even a skeptic can fancy things
that pure logic would deem "inferior" to modern designs. The
only difference is that the skeptic does not attribute supernatural
phenomenon or special properties to such products. Tube
amplifiers sound different for very cleble
reasons. Like or dislike of that difference is purely subjective
and purely personal.

Zip's comments about the PASS amps are of no importance to
me for this reason. (note that I say to ME, not in general- think
before you flame!) If it does not glow, it does not go! That's
just me.

There is no right or wrong in the tube vs. solid state debate. It is
preference, and, yes by God, it is subjective!

With the previous message from a "vinyl fetichist", this is the kind of
post that could decide some of us to attempt the experience.
Thank you for the breeze. ;-)

Lionel said:

With the previous message from a "vinyl fetichist", this is the kind of
post that could decide some of us to attempt the experience.
Thank you for the breeze. ;-)

Are your speakers finished yet, Lionel?
You know that horn systems and tubes go well together, don't you?
A simple push pull EL84 amp could be a good start.
Look at your local marketplace site or Ebay for a Lafayette or Bocama
LA-224B, or a Wembley 2-12 (same innards). There probably are some
French tube makes also, we don't see them much here in Holland.
They can be had for 100 euros or even less, depending on cosmetics.
Add in some 80 euros for all new JJ tubes (4 x EL84, 3 x ECC83, 1 x
GZ34). The latter may be replaced by silicon diodes if you wish.

If you want to spend serious money, get a Verdier amplifier grin
Mr. Verdier also produces some unbelievable turntables.
If you're not familiar with his name, he was one of the people behind
the ERA turntables and amplifiers in the '60s and '70s.

The nec plus ultra would be a 2A3 or 300B SET, according to the horn
aficionados.
I can't commend on that, because my speakers of choice won't allow for
SETs to drive them, so I never extensively used them..
Besides, there's that little tech in me whispering in my ears that all
that distortion can't be good :-)

I do have worked on many tube amps, both old and new, and the
simplicity and beauty of their nature never ceases to amaze me.
Yep, a thing of beauty is a joy forever!

--
Sander deWaal
Vacuum Audio Consultancy

Sander deWaal a écrit :

Lionel said:


With the previous message from a "vinyl fetichist", this is the kind of
post that could decide some of us to attempt the experience.
Thank you for the breeze. ;-)


Are your speakers finished yet, Lionel?
You know that horn systems and tubes go well together, don't you?
A simple push pull EL84 amp could be a good start.
Look at your local marketplace site or Ebay for a Lafayette or Bocama
LA-224B, or a Wembley 2-12 (same innards). There probably are some
French tube makes also, we don't see them much here in Holland.
They can be had for 100 euros or even less, depending on cosmetics.
Add in some 80 euros for all new JJ tubes (4 x EL84, 3 x ECC83, 1 x
GZ34). The latter may be replaced by silicon diodes if you wish.


No the speakers aren't finished. I am still thinking about the drawings
and I am attentive reader of the full-range drivers forums.
I have understood that due to their high efficiency Fostex speakers are
tube friendly.
Be careful you are the one that I will bored with my questions in bad
english if the idea do its way. :-(


If you want to spend serious money, get a Verdier amplifier grin
Mr. Verdier also produces some unbelievable turntables.
If you're not familiar with his name, he was one of the people behind
the ERA turntables and amplifiers in the '60s and '70s.

I know Verdier this is material for my friend S888Wheel.


The nec plus ultra would be a 2A3 or 300B SET, according to the horn
aficionados.
I can't commend on that, because my speakers of choice won't allow for
SETs to drive them, so I never extensively used them..
Besides, there's that little tech in me whispering in my ears that all
that distortion can't be good :-)

I do have worked on many tube amps, both old and new, and the
simplicity and beauty of their nature never ceases to amaze me.
Yep, a thing of beauty is a joy forever!

I understand that, in the same way I understand that some people like
the vinyl. I understand that they like/need the ceremonial, the
gesture... I understand that like for the tea, the wine... this
environment can increase their pleasure.
Don't worry my world is incredibly subjective. ;-)

Lionel said:

Be careful you are the one that I will bored with my questions in bad
english if the idea do its way. :-(

No prob, just be aware that my knowledge on loudspeaker designs is
(very) limited.

I know Verdier this is material for my friend S888Wheel.

Well, I wouldn't mind having one of those 60 kg platters turning in my
room.........this *is* a first rate eye-catcher!
In fact, I'm thinking of making such a turntable myself.
Verdier uses magnetical bearings, I would like to try air bearings.
At the same time, I'm having plans on making a linear tracking arm,
also with air bearings.
So much ideas, so little time :-)

I understand that, in the same way I understand that some people like
the vinyl. I understand that they like/need the ceremonial, the
gesture... I understand that like for the tea, the wine... this
environment can increase their pleasure.
Don't worry my world is incredibly subjective. ;-)

Well, for me, the ceremony of playing LPs is both enjoying the
"ceremonial" as the music.
Though my LP setup is modest, it certainly is good enough to not run
away in agony :-)

Being a certified cheapskate, it's also nice that good LPs can be had
for little money.
Some weeks ago I got a deal at the local pawn shop, over 20 LPs still
in their plastic cover for 10 euro.
Nothing special like Mercury Red or something, but still some good
music.

Only downloading MP3s is cheaper..............

--
Sander deWaal
Vacuum Audio Consultancy

Sander deWaal a écrit :

Lionel said:


Be careful you are the one that I will bored with my questions in bad
english if the idea do its way. :-(


No prob, just be aware that my knowledge on loudspeaker designs is
(very) limited.

I was speaking about tube amp only.


I know Verdier this is material for my friend S888Wheel.


Well, I wouldn't mind having one of those 60 kg platters turning in my
room.........this *is* a first rate eye-catcher!

Anyway I am too poor to have such thing at home. This would have no more
sense than to keep a Ferrari in my garage. ;-)

In fact, I'm thinking of making such a turntable myself.
Verdier uses magnetical bearings, I would like to try air bearings.
At the same time, I'm having plans on making a linear tracking arm,
also with air bearings.
So much ideas, so little time :-)

Unfortunatly I don't know anything about turntable technology. I am
dreaming of what means "air bearing". I love nice mechanics.


I understand that, in the same way I understand that some people like
the vinyl. I understand that they like/need the ceremonial, the
gesture... I understand that like for the tea, the wine... this
environment can increase their pleasure.
Don't worry my world is incredibly subjective. ;-)


Well, for me, the ceremony of playing LPs is both enjoying the
"ceremonial" as the music.
Though my LP setup is modest, it certainly is good enough to not run
away in agony :-)

Being a certified cheapskate, it's also nice that good LPs can be had
for little money.
Some weeks ago I got a deal at the local pawn shop, over 20 LPs still
in their plastic cover for 10 euro.
Nothing special like Mercury Red or something, but still some good
music.

Recently on a Sunday I have been to a vinyl market (used and new).
I have been a little bit desappointed because of relative high prices.
French are snobs.
Note that I haven't watched like you for "batch-sales".

Only downloading MP3s is cheaper..............

I download only for listening test purpose. If I like, I purchase. :-)

Lionel said:

Unfortunatly I don't know anything about turntable technology. I am
dreaming of what means "air bearing". I love nice mechanics.

Umm......what's a bearing?
The point where the platter revolves around and rests on.
For example a Thorens has a ball bearing.
Air bearing means the platter is hold in position by force of air.
Too bad one can't use a 60 kg platter, one would need a huge and noisy
compressor in the garden shed.

Same goes for the arm.
Normally, there would be friction btw. arm and suspension.
The air bearing would remove most of it, in theory it should be
possible to move the arm by means of the groove position.
In practice, this would lead to extensive groove distortion.
Some kind of servo mechanism must be used, but the idea of a nearly
frictionless arm is still attracting me.
Kind of like chasing the perpetuum mobile :-)

Recently on a Sunday I have been to a vinyl market (used and new).
I have been a little bit desappointed because of relative high prices.
French are snobs.
Note that I haven't watched like you for "batch-sales".

You said it.......a dedicated vinyl market.
One has to scrounge places where aficionados don't think about.

Just like radio hamfests: about the worst place to buy tubes, because
everyone knows their value too well.

--
Sander deWaal
Vacuum Audio Consultancy

Sander de Waal wrote:


Lionel said:

Be careful you are the one that I will bored with my questions in bad
english if the idea do its way. :-(

No prob, just be aware that my knowledge on loudspeaker designs is
(very) limited.

I know Verdier this is material for my friend S888Wheel.

Well, I wouldn't mind having one of those 60 kg platters turning in my
room.........this *is* a first rate eye-catcher!
In fact, I'm thinking of making such a turntable myself.
Verdier uses magnetical bearings, I would like to try air bearings.
At the same time, I'm having plans on making a linear tracking arm,
also with air bearings.
So much ideas, so little time :-)

I understand that, in the same way I understand that some people like
the vinyl. I understand that they like/need the ceremonial, the
gesture... I understand that like for the tea, the wine... this
environment can increase their pleasure.
Don't worry my world is incredibly subjective. ;-)

Well, for me, the ceremony of playing LPs is both enjoying the
"ceremonial" as the music.
Though my LP setup is modest, it certainly is good enough to not run
away in agony :-)


Despite the anti-vinyl line that those that enjoy vinyl do so for the rituals
involved, there is little evidence to support this old canard. In fact, many
younger people appear to be getting into vinyl because they simply prefer the
sound of it, for a variety of reasons. And apparently, a number of turntable
manufacturers, such as Rega, VPI, Thorens, Project, etc. just keep chugging
along, manufacturing newer models to accomodate the needs of new vinyl users.


Being a certified cheapskate, it's also nice that good LPs can be had
for little money.

Agreed. This is definitely part of the appeal for many IMHO. Between pawn
shops, eBay, and other sources, it can definitely be pretty inexpensive to
collect LPs of many types. And while people might not want to spend a
signicant amount to see if they like a particular artist or composer, they
might just be a lot more willing to experiment with lesser amounts. Also, used
LPs can often be cleaned up quite cheaply to play quite well if there has been
no significant groove damage. (which is often the case IME).


Some weeks ago I got a deal at the local pawn shop, over 20 LPs still
in their plastic cover for 10 euro.
Nothing special like Mercury Red or something, but still some good
music.

Only downloading MP3s is cheaper..............

--
Sander deWaal
Vacuum Audio Consultancy










Bruce J. Richman

Sander deWaal a écrit :
Lionel said:


Unfortunatly I don't know anything about turntable technology. I am
dreaming of what means "air bearing". I love nice mechanics.


Umm......what's a bearing?
The point where the platter revolves around and rests on.
For example a Thorens has a ball bearing.
Air bearing means the platter is hold in position by force of air.
Too bad one can't use a 60 kg platter, one would need a huge and noisy
compressor in the garden shed.

Your neighborhood would like your music.

Same goes for the arm.
Normally, there would be friction btw. arm and suspension.
The air bearing would remove most of it, in theory it should be
possible to move the arm by means of the groove position.
In practice, this would lead to extensive groove distortion.
Some kind of servo mechanism must be used, but the idea of a nearly
frictionless arm is still attracting me.

Thank you for your kind explanations.

Kind of like chasing the perpetuum mobile :-)

We have an invention contest in France call "concours Lépine"
http://www.concours-lepine.com/flash.htm
Nearly 20% of presented inventions are perpetuum mobile. ;-)


Recently on a Sunday I have been to a vinyl market (used and new).
I have been a little bit desappointed because of relative high prices.
French are snobs.
Note that I haven't watched like you for "batch-sales".


You said it.......a dedicated vinyl market.
One has to scrounge places where aficionados don't think about.

Now it is obvious... :-(

Just like radio hamfests: about the worst place to buy tubes, because
everyone knows their value too well.

Lionel said:

We have an invention contest in France call "concours Lépine"
http://www.concours-lepine.com/flash.htm
Nearly 20% of presented inventions are perpetuum mobile. ;-)

Great! The world energy problem solved then! grin

But think of it: world economics as we know it would collaps.
Even if such a thing existed and could be put to use, the major
companies would see to it that it will never happen.

BTW the pages are loading really slow at my end.

--
Sander deWaal
Vacuum Audio Consultancy

Sander deWaal a écrit :

Lionel said:


We have an invention contest in France call "concours Lépine"
http://www.concours-lepine.com/flash.htm
Nearly 20% of presented inventions are perpetuum mobile. ;-)


Great! The world energy problem solved then! grin

But think of it: world economics as we know it would collaps.
Even if such a thing existed and could be put to use, the major
companies would see to it that it will never happen.

Entropy theory also applies to economy ! :-)

BTW the pages are loading really slow at my end.

"Lionel"

Cheerio, England.

I think I am going to cry. :-(

(Sam Byrams) said:

The EL84 is about the last tube in the world I'd use for hi-fi. I have
dismantled several-maybe several dozen- of those old Salvation Army
integrated amps and receivers to put their OPTs in guitar amps.
Sometimes, the power transformer too.

I disagree. A well designed EL84 amp in UL can sound very sweet.
A matter of taste, I think.
I was scolded in RATubes for not liking the EL34, while most people
there think it's God's own tube. Go figure!

About the only worse choice would be old TV vertical-not
horizontal-deflection tubes. Surprise no one has figured out to use
them for big distortion in guitar amp service.

Vertical deflection tubes? It was tried for little amps.
E.G. the ECL82 was intended for this purpose.

--
Sander deWaal
Vacuum Audio Consultancy

"Schizoid Man" said:

Cheerio, England.

Ze Germans are still there.
And the Dutch :-)

I think I am going to cry. :-(

Don't.
If you need a real reason, take the weather.

--
Sander deWaal
Vacuum Audio Consultancy