[Drums]

I was wondering what the optimal input level was for recording and if it
applies to all
instruments? I do know that to much and not enough are not good. I have been
shooting for around -9db
but I am just pulling that out of my arse. ;o)

[John L Rice]

"Drums" wrote in message
...
I was wondering what the optimal input level was for recording and if it
applies to all
instruments? I do know that to much and not enough are not good. I have
been
shooting for around -9db
but I am just pulling that out of my arse. ;o)

I don't see a reason why -9 shouldn't be OK. Anything between -15 and -3
should be reasonable. Assuming really loud instruments, if I was to record
someone else I'd shoot for somewhere between -5 and -10, when recording
myself (drums) I just play slightly louder than physically possible ;-) and
make sure everything is just below overloading/clipping and then I back off
the gain a bit more. Shooting for -40 and below or always -1 and above
would seem silly to me.

Best of luck!

John L Rice

[Scott Dorsey]

Drums wrote:
I was wondering what the optimal input level was for recording and if it
applies to all
instruments? I do know that to much and not enough are not good. I have been
shooting for around -9db
but I am just pulling that out of my arse. ;o)

-9dB with respect to what? On what medium? With what machine?

In the digital world, everything is measured with respect to full scale
and it really doesn't matter how things are set as long as nothing ever
clips. Setting so peaks hit -12 dBFS to -6 dBFS is reasonable and gives
you a little bit of room, but if there's a possibility that something is
going to start making loud noises without any warning you might want to
have a little more headroom.

In the analogue world, things are totally different, and levels are
measured with respect to a given magnetic field level on the tape.
Because the system is so nonlinear, level setting becomes critical.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[Laurence Payne]

On Tue, 26 Sep 2006 12:25:09 GMT, "Drums"
wrote:

I was wondering what the optimal input level was for recording and if it
applies to all
instruments? I do know that to much and not enough are not good. I have been
shooting for around -9db
but I am just pulling that out of my arse. ;o)


Into a digital system with peak-reading meters? You've got a LOT of
bottom-room, particularly into 24 bits. So though all you have to do
theoretically is avoid hitting 0dB you can afford to be conservative.
Aiming to never peak over -9dB (but not having to swear if it DOES go
a few dB higher) sounds fine.

[Romeo Rondeau]

"Drums" wrote in message
...
I was wondering what the optimal input level was for recording and if it
applies to all
instruments? I do know that to much and not enough are not good. I have
been
shooting for around -9db
but I am just pulling that out of my arse. ;o)

Assuming that you are recording 24-bits -9 is just fine. You don't have to
push the levels nearly as much as you used to. It really depends on the
instrument and the player. If the instrument is really peaky, -9 may be a
little hot. Distorted guitars for example can be printed really hot
(assuming you miked it well), they hardly peak at all. A jazz drummer on the
other hand may surprise you and redline every now and then when you least
expect it. Get a good idea of where the levels are gonna be while they are
running through the song. A red light or two every now and then on peaky
signals like snare drums are nothing to cry about as long as you didn't hit
it too hard... besides that... how else are you gonna make sure the red
lights still work on that channel? :-)

[Scott Fraser]

I was wondering what the optimal input level was for recording and if
it applies to all instruments

If you're talking digital, the optimal level does apply for all
instruments, & that is as high as possible without ever clipping.

Scott Fraser

[Laurence Payne]

On 26 Sep 2006 09:28:55 -0700, "Scott Fraser"
wrote:

If you're talking digital, the optimal level does apply for all
instruments, & that is as high as possible without ever clipping.

But with less emphasis on "as high as possible" and more on "not
clipping" than with analogue systems.

[Greg]

Drums wrote:
I was wondering what the optimal input level was for recording ...

I just try to calibrate my preamp gain so that the mic clips at the
same time as the A/D converter would, and then I don't worry about it.

[Drums]

It is Digital. I record at 24/48 most of the time.

"Romeo Rondeau" wrote in message
m...
"Drums" wrote in message
...
I was wondering what the optimal input level was for recording and if it
applies to all
instruments? I do know that to much and not enough are not good. I have
been
shooting for around -9db
but I am just pulling that out of my arse. ;o)

Assuming that you are recording 24-bits -9 is just fine. You don't have to
push the levels nearly as much as you used to. It really depends on the
instrument and the player. If the instrument is really peaky, -9 may be a
little hot. Distorted guitars for example can be printed really hot
(assuming you miked it well), they hardly peak at all. A jazz drummer on
the
other hand may surprise you and redline every now and then when you least
expect it. Get a good idea of where the levels are gonna be while they are
running through the song. A red light or two every now and then on peaky
signals like snare drums are nothing to cry about as long as you didn't
hit
it too hard... besides that... how else are you gonna make sure the red
lights still work on that channel? :-)

[Laurence Payne]

On 26 Sep 2006 18:38:20 -0700, "Greg" wrote:

I just try to calibrate my preamp gain so that the mic clips at the
same time as the A/D converter would, and then I don't worry about it.

So when you go over, it's REALLY nasty :-)

[Greg]

Laurence Payne wrote:
On 26 Sep 2006 18:38:20 -0700, "Greg" wrote:

I just try to calibrate my preamp gain so that the mic clips at the
same time as the A/D converter would, and then I don't worry about it.

So when you go over, it's REALLY nasty :-)

Well, yeah. But if the source clips the mic it's already nasty, and
any bits in the A/D above that level are wasted anyway, unless you are
trying to accurately capture the sound of a clipping mic. So I think
this approach gives the widest possible dynamic range.

[Laurence Payne]

On 27 Sep 2006 06:22:17 -0700, "Greg" wrote:

I just try to calibrate my preamp gain so that the mic clips at the
same time as the A/D converter would, and then I don't worry about it.

So when you go over, it's REALLY nasty :-)

Well, yeah. But if the source clips the mic it's already nasty, and
any bits in the A/D above that level are wasted anyway, unless you are
trying to accurately capture the sound of a clipping mic. So I think
this approach gives the widest possible dynamic range.

Do you really mean the *mic* clipping?

[Scott Dorsey]

Laurence Payne lpayne1NOSPAM@dslDOTpipexDOTcom wrote:
On 27 Sep 2006 06:22:17 -0700, "Greg" wrote:

I just try to calibrate my preamp gain so that the mic clips at the
same time as the A/D converter would, and then I don't worry about it.

So when you go over, it's REALLY nasty :-)

Well, yeah. But if the source clips the mic it's already nasty, and
any bits in the A/D above that level are wasted anyway, unless you are
trying to accurately capture the sound of a clipping mic. So I think
this approach gives the widest possible dynamic range.

Do you really mean the *mic* clipping?

Yes. His point is that if clipping takes place early on in the chain,
it doesn't matter what is going on later in the chain. This is why
gain staging is such a big deal.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[animix]

"Scott Dorsey" wrote in message
...
Laurence Payne lpayne1NOSPAM@dslDOTpipexDOTcom wrote:
On 27 Sep 2006 06:22:17 -0700, "Greg" wrote:

I just try to calibrate my preamp gain so that the mic clips at the
same time as the A/D converter would, and then I don't worry about
it.

So when you go over, it's REALLY nasty :-)

Well, yeah. But if the source clips the mic it's already nasty, and
any bits in the A/D above that level are wasted anyway, unless you are
trying to accurately capture the sound of a clipping mic. So I think
this approach gives the widest possible dynamic range.

Do you really mean the *mic* clipping?

Yes. His point is that if clipping takes place early on in the chain,
it doesn't matter what is going on later in the chain. This is why
gain staging is such a big deal.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

.......and you have to be damned careful with the gainstaging.......

http://homepage.mac.com/mcguiremike/...Theater15.html

[Greg]

Scott Dorsey wrote:
Laurence Payne lpayne1NOSPAM@dslDOTpipexDOTcom wrote:
On 27 Sep 2006 06:22:17 -0700, "Greg" wrote:

I just try to calibrate my preamp gain so that the mic clips at the
same time as the A/D converter would, and then I don't worry about it.

So when you go over, it's REALLY nasty :-)

Well, yeah. But if the source clips the mic it's already nasty, and
any bits in the A/D above that level are wasted anyway, unless you are
trying to accurately capture the sound of a clipping mic. So I think
this approach gives the widest possible dynamic range.

Do you really mean the *mic* clipping?

Yes. His point is that if clipping takes place early on in the chain,
it doesn't matter what is going on later in the chain. This is why
gain staging is such a big deal.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

What Scott said. And no, I don't calibrate by driving the mic into
clipping, though I would if I could. I calibrate to 100 dB pink noise
based on the mic manufacturer's specs for clipping point.

[John L Rice]

"animix" wrote in message
news

"Scott Dorsey" wrote in message
...
Laurence Payne lpayne1NOSPAM@dslDOTpipexDOTcom wrote:
On 27 Sep 2006 06:22:17 -0700, "Greg" wrote:

I just try to calibrate my preamp gain so that the mic clips at the
same time as the A/D converter would, and then I don't worry about
it.

So when you go over, it's REALLY nasty :-)

Well, yeah. But if the source clips the mic it's already nasty, and
any bits in the A/D above that level are wasted anyway, unless you are
trying to accurately capture the sound of a clipping mic. So I think
this approach gives the widest possible dynamic range.

Do you really mean the *mic* clipping?

Yes. His point is that if clipping takes place early on in the chain,
it doesn't matter what is going on later in the chain. This is why
gain staging is such a big deal.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

......and you have to be damned careful with the gainstaging.......

http://homepage.mac.com/mcguiremike/...Theater15.html

LOL!!! Thanks animix, that was great!!! ;-)

John L Rice

[Laurence Payne]

On 27 Sep 2006 17:02:54 -0700, "Greg" wrote:

Do you really mean the *mic* clipping?

Yes. His point is that if clipping takes place early on in the chain,
it doesn't matter what is going on later in the chain. This is why
gain staging is such a big deal.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

What Scott said. And no, I don't calibrate by driving the mic into
clipping, though I would if I could. I calibrate to 100 dB pink noise
based on the mic manufacturer's specs for clipping point.

OK. I thought you must mean the mic signal clipping at the preamp
input. What sort of level does it take to actually overload the
*mic*? Why do you need to calibrate to such a high level?

[Scott Dorsey]

Laurence Payne lpayne1NOSPAM@dslDOTpipexDOTcom wrote:

OK. I thought you must mean the mic signal clipping at the preamp
input. What sort of level does it take to actually overload the
*mic*? Why do you need to calibrate to such a high level?

Depends a lot on the mike. It's next to impossible to clip an SM57. But
an SM81 you can clip easily as a drum overhead if you don't use the internal
pad on the mike (which you want to avoid using because it affects the sound).

MANY of the large diaphragm Chinese mikes clip well below the level of the
SM81 too, and some of them have transformers that start sounding really
bizarre well below the level at which they clip.

You can even clip an SM81 with a piano if you get close enough.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[Greg]

Laurence Payne wrote:
On 27 Sep 2006 17:02:54 -0700, "Greg" wrote:

Do you really mean the *mic* clipping?

Yes. His point is that if clipping takes place early on in the chain,
it doesn't matter what is going on later in the chain. This is why
gain staging is such a big deal.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

What Scott said. And no, I don't calibrate by driving the mic into
clipping, though I would if I could. I calibrate to 100 dB pink noise
based on the mic manufacturer's specs for clipping point.

OK. I thought you must mean the mic signal clipping at the preamp
input. What sort of level does it take to actually overload the
*mic*? Why do you need to calibrate to such a high level?

I don't like messing with levels when I could be enjoying music and
musicians, and music can get really loud. Headroom is my friend. For
soft sounds I make accomodations.

[Scott Dorsey]

Greg wrote:
I don't like messing with levels when I could be enjoying music and
musicians, and music can get really loud. Headroom is my friend. For
soft sounds I make accomodations.

I don't know about you, but it's my JOB to mess with levels rather than
sitting back and enjoying music.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[Arny Krueger]

"Scott Dorsey" wrote in message


Greg wrote:
I don't like messing with levels when I could be
enjoying music and musicians, and music can get really
loud. Headroom is my friend. For soft sounds I make
accomodations.

I don't know about you, but it's my JOB to mess with
levels rather than sitting back and enjoying music.

If you have a lot of headroom and exploit it well, you can move at lot of
the messing with levels part to the DAW session later on. I like to use the
time in session to focus on things like acoustical perspective and whether I
need to further fine tune the situations with the mics.