[Ron Capik]

I'll be running a live-sound-for-musicians workshop in a few weeks
and I'm sort of looking for anecdotes on board setup. I posted
a similar question [Left Handed Sound Board?] to the live-sound
group, however figure it can't hurt to tap in to the diverse
background of this group.

I don't remember seeing much about typical channel assignments
for live sound in any of the books I've read. With multi layered digital

boards things may not be as intuitive.

I try to set up the board so that things that need the most adjustment
are closer to the center, but with my typical bluegrass gigs I tend
to use vocals==even channels and instruments==odd channels.
Then I'll have the bass, DI, and misc. stuff off to the far left.

Now, as far as I know there aren't any standard configurations
and I'd tend to guess we all develop our own assignment strategy.

For starters, some questions that comes to mind:

How did you learn; mentor, seat of the pants, book, etc. ?

Does right/left handiness effect assignment strategy?
[OK I'm left handed, so the concept intrigues me]

Do some sound companies standardize their setups
so it's easier to swop sound techs?

I have no experience with digital boards, so I don't even
know what questions to ask on that subject.

Later...

Ron Capik
--

[Arny Krueger]

"Ron Capik" wrote in message
...

I'll be running a live-sound-for-musicians workshop in a few weeks
and I'm sort of looking for anecdotes on board setup. I posted
a similar question [Left Handed Sound Board?] to the live-sound
group, however figure it can't hurt to tap in to the diverse
background of this group.

I don't remember seeing much about typical channel assignments
for live sound in any of the books I've read. With multi layered digital
boards things may not be as intuitive.

I've found (no surprise) that it really helps to have people who work
together on the same layer.

I assign the vocal mics left to right as they appear on stage, and then the
instruments, again as they appear on stage.

[Scott Dorsey]

Ron Capik wrote:

I try to set up the board so that things that need the most adjustment
are closer to the center, but with my typical bluegrass gigs I tend
to use vocals==even channels and instruments==odd channels.
Then I'll have the bass, DI, and misc. stuff off to the far left.

Now, as far as I know there aren't any standard configurations
and I'd tend to guess we all develop our own assignment strategy.

Some people like to set things up so the vocals are on the left and
the instruments are on the right.

I like to set things up so they are the way things are arranged on
the stage.. stuff on the left is on the left and stuff on the right
is on the right. Voice of God goes to the far, far right.

For starters, some questions that comes to mind:

How did you learn; mentor, seat of the pants, book, etc. ?

All of the above, really. Mostly by watching other folks as an assistant,
though.

Does right/left handiness effect assignment strategy?
[OK I'm left handed, so the concept intrigues me]

I have no idea, but if you take the philosophy that the stuff on the
board should be arranged like the stuff on the stage, handedness should
not matter.

Do some sound companies standardize their setups
so it's easier to swop sound techs?

I think they would have an open revolt if they did.

I have no experience with digital boards, so I don't even
know what questions to ask on that subject.

Digital boards allow you to repatch things so the order of the lines in
the snake is different than the order of the faders on the control
surface. In a typical sound reinforcement situation, this is asking
for trouble if you ask me.

It's bad enough working with a recording board whose channels 1 through 8
are split from channels 3 through 11 of the PA console.... "I'm hearing
something breaking up on 2 which is your 5...."
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[Mike Rivers]

Ron Capik wrote:
I'll be running a live-sound-for-musicians workshop in a few weeks
and I'm sort of looking for anecdotes on board setup.

I don't remember seeing much about typical channel assignments
for live sound in any of the books I've read. With multi layered digital
boards things may not be as intuitive.

I think it's a presonal thing. If there was ever anything written about
it, it would probalby be to do what makes most sense to you.

I try to set up the board so that things that need the most adjustment
are closer to the center, but with my typical bluegrass gigs I tend
to use vocals==even channels and instruments==odd channels.
Then I'll have the bass, DI, and misc. stuff off to the far left.

I would be wary about putting things that I need to adjust frequently
in the center. It's too likely that I'd miss by a couple of channels
and grab the wrong knob, but that's just me. If I'm calling the shots,
I'll draw a line through the console (usually with white tape) and put
the vocals together on one side of the line, usually the left, and
everything else to the right. I connect them going left to right as the
audience (and me) sees it. I get too confused with the
voice-instrument-voice-instrument setup.

Vocals are straightforward since there's almost always just one to a
customer. If an instrument has a mic and a DI, I'll put those two
together, and if an instrument has only a DI, it goes in the
left-right line as if it were a mic. Piano, keyboards, and instruments
that aren't "front line" and I can't usualy see who's playing them go
off to the right of the front line group.

I generally put the bass at the right-hand end of the instrument group,
and if there are drums, they'll go to the right, usually
OH-Snare-Kick, with the bass next to the kick. But if it's a more
acoustic group, I'll usually reverse that whole setup, with the bass as
if it were the next instrument in line, the kick next to it, then
snare, then overheads. But if it's a festival, I'll use one setup and
stick with it. I have to train the stage help to understand that if
it's just one singer and guitar, it's channels 1 and 7, not 1 and 2.
That keeps me from having to chase EQ too far.

How did you learn; mentor, seat of the pants, book, etc. ?

I saw people doing it all sorts of ways. My vision isn't very good, so
I really need a system that I can count on even if I can't see well,
and this just works for me. About the weirdest system I ever saw
someone use was that he had the mixer channels labeled with the type of
mic. It didn't matter where the banjo player was standing, if he wanted
the 421 on the banjo, he'd put it there and he'd know which fader
controlled it.

Does right/left handiness effect assignment strategy?
[OK I'm left handed, so the concept intrigues me]

I like to see the board like I see the band. Once I had a stage
assistant who got the concept, but he plugged in the mics going left to
right as HE saw it, so I had the vocals and instruments going from
right to left on the console. I got used to it rather quickly after I
figured out what he had done (no sound checks at these affairs) and I
just asked him to do it the other way next time.

Do some sound companies standardize their setups
so it's easier to swop sound techs?

I suppose so. But a lot of sound companies (and even festival crews)
really just provide equipment for an engineer who comes with the band.
If someone comes up to me (before setup) and says they're going to be
mixing, I'll ask them how they want things set up and we'll do it that
way. A couple of times when they've come up to the board just as the
band was going on, they get my setup, but usually manage to work with
it. If it seems too weird for them, I'll send them down to the
bass-drums end of the board (it's usualy those bands that have their
own engineer) and tell them to get that right and I'd get the vocals
going. That works out pretty well.

I have no experience with digital boards, so I don't even
know what questions to ask on that subject.

Just one question: "Do you know how to run one of these things?"

[Paul Stamler]

"Scott Dorsey" wrote in message
...

I like to set things up so they are the way things are arranged on
the stage.. stuff on the left is on the left and stuff on the right
is on the right. Voice of God goes to the far, far right.

That's how I've always done it, too. Where there's an MC, they go in place
of the Voice of God. In addition, I have rules with mnemonics:

When someone is playing an instrument and singing too, the vocal mic always
goes first.
MNEMONIC: We had voices before we had instruments.

When someone is switching between acoustic and electric whatever, acoustic
goes first.
MNEMONIC: We had acoustic instruments before we had electric ones.

When someone's acoustic guitar is both miked and DI'd, the mike goes first.
MNEMONIC...you can probably guess.

Peace,
Paul

[Scott Fraser]

How did you learn; mentor, seat of the pants, book, etc. ?

Mostly seat of pants, although the most useful single strategy was from
the engineer I was taking over from on a tour: bring all the faders up
in a straight line, then make the rough mix on the trims. This more
than anything else has gotten me through 30 years of variety shows &
festivals with ever changing assignments. So, I'll call him my one day
mentor on that.

Does right/left handiness effect assignment strategy?
[OK I'm left handed, so the concept intrigues me]

No. I group things in logical subgroups; i.e. all choral mics together
left to right, all orchestra mics together left to right, all playback
channels together, all FX returns together, etc.

Do some sound companies standardize their setups
so it's easier to swop sound techs?

I don't know. I don't work for a sound company.

I have no experience with digital boards, so I don't even
know what questions to ask on that subject.

The important thing to remember about digital desks; you can only do
one thing at a time, even though you have two hands. In rep, recall is
your best friend. On one night stands, it's pointless & way more time
consuming than analog. The advantages & disadvantages depend entirely
on the nature of the gig.

Scott Fraser

[Romeo Rondeau]

"Ron Capik" wrote in message
...
I'll be running a live-sound-for-musicians workshop in a few weeks
and I'm sort of looking for anecdotes on board setup. I posted
a similar question [Left Handed Sound Board?] to the live-sound
group, however figure it can't hurt to tap in to the diverse
background of this group.

I don't remember seeing much about typical channel assignments
for live sound in any of the books I've read. With multi layered digital

For some reason, I tend to arrange things live the way that I used to record
them. Drums to the left with bass after the last drum channel. Next are
guitars and keyboards. Vocals to the right (next to the subgroups) arranged
the way they are on stage.

[Julian]

On 25 Sep 2006 14:58:46 -0400, (Scott Dorsey) wrote:


I like to set things up so they are the way things are arranged on
the stage.. stuff on the left is on the left and stuff on the right
is on the right. Voice of God goes to the far, far right.

Audience left to right is the way to go except I always put the voice
of God on the far far left :-)

Julian

[Rafael Vanoni]

Mike Rivers wrote:
I saw people doing it all sorts of ways. My vision isn't very good, so
I really need a system that I can count on even if I can't see well,
and this just works for me. About the weirdest system I ever saw
someone use was that he had the mixer channels labeled with the type of
mic. It didn't matter where the banjo player was standing, if he wanted
the 421 on the banjo, he'd put it there and he'd know which fader
controlled it.

When recording, I often label channels with both instrument and mic -
in some cases, I'll add micing too. Helps me to remember the session
when it comes time to mix it and always helpful to whoever ends up
mixing the project if the client takes it outside. I'm talking DAW
here, so that's usually the filename. Something like 'over ksm44 xy'.

But live, wysiwyg works best, with god separated from the rest by a
couple of channels.

[coreybenson]

Romeo Rondeau wrote:
For some reason, I tend to arrange things live the way that I used to record
them. Drums to the left with bass after the last drum channel. Next are
guitars and keyboards. Vocals to the right (next to the subgroups) arranged
the way they are on stage.

Ditto... but that's the way I started mixing Live, and now I do it that
way when I record.

In order:

Drums (Kick, Snare Top, Snare Bottom, High Hat, Toms, Overheads)
Bass (DI then mic)
Keys
Acoustic guitars (DI then Mic; if more than one player, set up as they
are on stage)
Electric guitars (if more than one player, set up as they are on stage)
Vocals (set up as they are on stage)
Live gig: Effects (Delay 1, Delay 2, Vox Verb 1, Vox Verb 2, Drum Verb
1, Drum Verb 2)
CD/Playback Music unit (usually a CD player, but sometimes an iPod or
whatever)

Corey

[Mike Rivers]

Rafael Vanoni wrote:

When recording, I often label channels with both instrument and mic -
in some cases, I'll add micing too. Helps me to remember the session
when it comes time to mix it and always helpful to whoever ends up
mixing the project if the client takes it outside.

I write all of that down on paper and just put it in the box with the
reel of tape.

I'm talking DAW
here, so that's usually the filename. Something like 'over ksm44 xy'.

Oh, never mind. g

[Walt]

Ron Capik wrote:

I'll be running a live-sound-for-musicians workshop in a few weeks
and I'm sort of looking for anecdotes on board setup. I posted
a similar question [Left Handed Sound Board?] to the live-sound
group, however figure it can't hurt to tap in to the diverse
background of this group.

I don't remember seeing much about typical channel assignments
for live sound in any of the books I've read. With multi layered digital
boards things may not be as intuitive.

I try to set up the board so that things that need the most adjustment
are closer to the center, but with my typical bluegrass gigs I tend
to use vocals==even channels and instruments==odd channels.
Then I'll have the bass, DI, and misc. stuff off to the far left.

Now, as far as I know there aren't any standard configurations
and I'd tend to guess we all develop our own assignment strategy.

For starters, some questions that comes to mind:

How did you learn; mentor, seat of the pants, book, etc. ?

Does right/left handiness effect assignment strategy?
[OK I'm left handed, so the concept intrigues me]

Do some sound companies standardize their setups
so it's easier to swop sound techs?

The company I freelance for has a standard setup. I don't think it was
dictated, it just evolved over the years and became the standard setup.
If I'm wiring the stage, I can pretty much plug things in without a
chart and the FOH guy will find things, and vice versa. Yes, we use a
chart, but we could probably do a reasonably complicated gig without
one. It really helps to *not* have to think about some things so you
can use your mental energy to think about other things.

Anyway, it's something like:
Drums (kick, snare, hat, toms, overheads)
Bass
Piano
Guitar
Keyboards
other misc. guanno
Horns (left to right as you see 'em)
Vocals " " " "

That's for a pop/rock/jazz gig.

I've never liked the vocals intermixed with instruments approach - I'm
hunting around too much trying to find things. I'm of the "similar
things together" approach. (I remember one gig where the stage guy just
plugged in every mic left to right across the stage, no matter what it
was - no talking him out of this approach, either). I suppose I could
get used to it, and a colored sharpie would no doubt help.

I guess whatever works ergonomically for you and your team works.

//Walt

[[email protected]]

I've done both ways, vocals to the left appearing in order
left to right from audience prospective, but then I became
more of a studio rat and started doing vocals toward the
master section, in order.
MC or voice of god always goes far left though whichever way
I set it up.

I"m like MIke R. VIsion nonexistent, and therefore like to
be able to reach out and grab what I need. I'll mark last
channel fader with some kind of easily identifiable tactile
marking if I"m dealing with subgroup faders that look at a
quick glance of the fingers like channels so that I can
easily find myself.
I usually group bass next to kick, instruments together that
run both DI and mic such as acoustic guitars etc. IF keys
are stereo their channels are right next to each other, and
I try to find out which keyboard is the player's dominant
instrument if he has more than one.




Richard webb,
Electric Spider Productions
Replace anything before the @ symbol with elspider for real
email address.



Braille: support true literacy for the blind.

[Scott Fraser]

I remember one gig where the stage guy just
plugged in every mic left to right across the stage, no matter what it
was - no talking him out of this approach, either

Well, the FOH engineer has to be the crew chief, so if you really want
it a certain way, it gets done that way.

Scott Fraser

[Ron Capik]

Paul Stamler wrote:

"Scott Dorsey" wrote in message
...

I like to set things up so they are the way things are arranged on
the stage.. stuff on the left is on the left and stuff on the right
is on the right. Voice of God goes to the far, far right.

That's how I've always done it, too. Where there's an MC, they go in place
of the Voice of God.
...snip.....
Peace,
Paul

OK, I'm left handed and my "Voice of God" is on the far far left. G


Later...

Ron Capik
--

[Ron Capik]

Mike Rivers wrote:

Ron Capik wrote:
I'll be running a live-sound-for-musicians workshop in a few weeks
and I'm sort of looking for anecdotes on board setup.

...snip...

I have no experience with digital boards, so I don't even
know what questions to ask on that subject.

Just one question: "Do you know how to run one of these things?"

Heck no! I've never even encountered one 'up close and personal'.
However, I have written a lot of user interfaces, so I guess might be
a fairly quick study. [ ...or not. ]

Later...

Ron Capik
--

[[email protected]]

On 2006-09-25 said:
I remember one gig where the stage guy just
plugged in every mic left to right across the stage, no matter what
it was - no talking him out of this approach, either
Well, the FOH engineer has to be the crew chief, so if you really
want it a certain way, it gets done that way.
I always tell crew how I want foh set up but then it stays
that way for the whole show, even if it's multiple acts on a
festival.

I've tried to get used to vocals etc. just mixed in willy
nilly depending on where they were positioned on stage, but
I like my vocals at least grouped together and then
instruments, or instruments grouped then vocals. I can work
either setup, so long as like items are grouped.


WHat frustrates me is when I get amateurs who move the mics
around once they're set up and then don't stay on the mic I
thought they'd be using.
A friend of mine i used to work with put different colored
windjammer balls on the sm-58's most of his acts used and
just paid attention to who was on what color.
Once I started mixing some of his shows though we soon
disabused the folks of the notion they could just do
anything they wanted and foh would adapt.



Richard webb,
Electric Spider Productions
Replace anything before the @ symbol with elspider for real
email address.

[jakdedert]

Romeo Rondeau wrote:
"Ron Capik" wrote in message
...
I'll be running a live-sound-for-musicians workshop in a few weeks
and I'm sort of looking for anecdotes on board setup. I posted
a similar question [Left Handed Sound Board?] to the live-sound
group, however figure it can't hurt to tap in to the diverse
background of this group.

I don't remember seeing much about typical channel assignments
for live sound in any of the books I've read. With multi layered digital

For some reason, I tend to arrange things live the way that I used to record
them. Drums to the left with bass after the last drum channel. Next are
guitars and keyboards. Vocals to the right (next to the subgroups) arranged
the way they are on stage.

That's basically what I said, last week when this thread started. I
thought most people did it that way, as it seems to be almost invariably
what I get when I work a festival...where someone else set up the channels.

It's interesting seeing the different ways that people here look at it.

jak

[Paul Stamler]

"Walt" wrote in message
...
I've never liked the vocals intermixed with instruments approach - I'm
hunting around too much trying to find things. I'm of the "similar
things together" approach. (I remember one gig where the stage guy just
plugged in every mic left to right across the stage, no matter what it
was - no talking him out of this approach, either). I suppose I could
get used to it, and a colored sharpie would no doubt help.

What helps me: on the scribble strip, I draw heavy lines between the faders
for each performer. So if I have, say, a guy with a vocal, guitar mic and DI
on the first three channels, there will be a line between 3 and 4. Then at
the top of the scribble strip in that section I'll write his name, then on
each channel I'll say what it is.

For festivals with constant change, though, I write the mic type on the
strip. Oh, and I always arrange things for the most complex act, then work
the others around that. For years, that was the Grace Family; one
performer's section used to include vocal, autoharp (DI), two channels of
accordion (L & R hands) and clogging board (DI). We'd do 13 mics for four
performers, in an act with no drums.

Peace,
Paul

[Mike Rivers]

Reply actually to Richard, but Google rejects all my replies to his
posts:

WHat frustrates me is when I get amateurs who move the mics
around once they're set up and then don't stay on the mic I
thought they'd be using.

Don't you just love it when the banjo player is about to play an
instrumental, so he moves his vocal mic down to the banjo so it'll be
louder? And then when he's going to sing again, moves the banjo mic up
to mouth level?

[Julian]

On Mon, 25 Sep 2006 22:37:46 GMT, Ron Capik
wrote:


OK, I'm left handed and my "Voice of God" is on the far far left. G

I'm right handed and still put it on the far far left. Seems like it
just should always be first - ch1.

I also use vocals then instruments for each person left to right. I
might sub group vocals but I don't usually put them all together on
the mixer - but then again I might some times if there is a big band
with lot's of singers.

Julian

[Arny Krueger]

"Ron Capik" wrote in message
...
Paul Stamler wrote:

"Scott Dorsey" wrote in message
...

I like to set things up so they are the way things are arranged on
the stage.. stuff on the left is on the left and stuff on the right
is on the right. Voice of God goes to the far, far right.

That's how I've always done it, too. Where there's an MC, they go in
place
of the Voice of God.
...snip.....
Peace,
Paul

OK, I'm left handed and my "Voice of God" is on the far far left. G

I'm right-handed and my "Voice of God" is on the far left.

I think it is something about reading left to right.

[Ron Capik]

Arny Krueger wrote:

"Ron Capik" wrote in message
...
Paul Stamler wrote:

"Scott Dorsey" wrote in message
...


...snip.. Voice of God goes to the far, far right.

That's how I've always done it, too. Where there's an MC, they go in
place
of the Voice of God.
...snip.....
Peace,
Paul

OK, I'm left handed and my "Voice of God" is on the far far left. G

I'm right-handed and my "Voice of God" is on the far left.

I think it is something about reading left to right.

OK, that theory bites the dust. G

Later...

Ron
--

[Fletch]

Arny Krueger wrote:
"Ron Capik" wrote in message
...

I'll be running a live-sound-for-musicians workshop in a few weeks
and I'm sort of looking for anecdotes on board setup. I posted
a similar question [Left Handed Sound Board?] to the live-sound
group, however figure it can't hurt to tap in to the diverse
background of this group.

I don't remember seeing much about typical channel assignments
for live sound in any of the books I've read. With multi layered digital
boards things may not be as intuitive.

I've found (no surprise) that it really helps to have people who work
together on the same layer.

I assign the vocal mics left to right as they appear on stage, and then the
instruments, again as they appear on stage.

I work this way, too. Grouping vocals together so they're all in one
place, then instruments, using the Left to Right orientation, as you
see them on stage; very intuitive. The drums I group together as well.
Then, if I have subs, I'll assign 1&2 for vocals, 3&4 for guitars and
bass, 5&6 for the kit and 7&8 for effects after returning them to
channels for more control. Using two channels of sub per assignment
gives a bit more ommph to the gain. All is then summed to mono. Stereo
tends to leave one side of the room out of the experience because you
would pan something left or right a bit and it diminishes in the other
side. Mono gives everyone the whole roll.

The idea is to create an intuitive flow. If you assign even to vocals
and odd to instruments, you've mixed things up and will have a tendency
to hit the wrong fader when making adjustments. Better to group "like"
things together and label, label, label everything!!

I learned sound at first because nobody else cared, and I was building
a home recording studio at the time. This is back in the '70's. Then I
began to run sound for other people because I used common sense in
mixing. Live mixing helped my studio mixes and my studio mixing helped
my live mixes. I also worked with other sound techs and picked things
up, routing options and other techniques to make work flow easier.
Eventually, I was the go-to guy for a number of bands because I know
how to get a good mix quickly and the monitor feeds are clean and
clear.

I learned to mix horns on my own and found it to be a great joy. I love
mixing bands with horns. There's just something about horns sitting in
a mix that makes it so much fun to engineer.

--Fletch

[Laurence Payne]

On 26 Sep 2006 04:30:25 -0700, "Mike Rivers"
wrote:


Reply actually to Richard, but Google rejects all my replies to his
posts:

WHat frustrates me is when I get amateurs who move the mics
around once they're set up and then don't stay on the mic I
thought they'd be using.

Don't you just love it when the banjo player is about to play an
instrumental, so he moves his vocal mic down to the banjo so it'll be
louder? And then when he's going to sing again, moves the banjo mic up
to mouth level?


And you can't keep a banjo out of any mic within 20 paces anyway :-)

[Scott Fraser]

The nature of the gig really dictates the set up. I've been mixing
Kronos for 15 years, hundreds, maybe thousands of concerts, & there's a
very set, yet malleable way this lays out on the desk. I put the 8
instrument mics next to the VCA masters, which may mean 17-24 or 25-32
depending on which side my outboard rack ends up on. The playback &
effects returns can be prior to or after the instruments without having
to think about it, but the aux sends have to have a certain top to
bottom order or I'll get slowed down. It seems to be an ambidextrous
approach. Additional channels are added (guest musicians) according to
priority, i.e. somebody who plays throughout goes next to the main
mics, somebody who does a short cameo goes at either end of list & is
controlled on a separate VCA. The point is to make it something I don't
have to spend conscious thinking time on, but can react intuitively to.
A festival, OTOH, gets lined up with instrument mics on odd channels &
vocals on even channels, every other, all the way across.

Scott Fraser

[Romeo Rondeau]

"Mike Rivers" wrote in message
ups.com...

Reply actually to Richard, but Google rejects all my replies to his
posts:

WHat frustrates me is when I get amateurs who move the mics
around once they're set up and then don't stay on the mic I
thought they'd be using.

Don't you just love it when the banjo player is about to play an
instrumental, so he moves his vocal mic down to the banjo so it'll be
louder? And then when he's going to sing again, moves the banjo mic up
to mouth level?

Gosh, you give the banjo player a mike?

[Mike Rivers]

Romeo Rondeau wrote:

Gosh, you give the banjo player a mike?

Might as well. If you don't, they'll grab one anyway.

Besides, not all banjos are loud.
And not all instruments with banjo strings on them are banjos.

[[email protected]]

Mike RIvers wrote:
WHat frustrates me is when I get amateurs who move the mics
around once they're set up and then don't stay on the mic I
thought they'd be using.
Don't you just love it when the banjo player is about to play an
instrumental, so he moves his vocal mic down to the banjo so it'll
be louder? And then when he's going to sing again, moves the banjo
mic up to mouth level?

Yah, great fun! THe joy of doing amateur productions.
I could tell lots of horro stories.



Richard webb,
Electric Spider Productions
Replace anything before the @ symbol with elspider for real
email address.



Braille: support true literacy for the blind.

[Julian]

On Tue, 26 Sep 2006 14:04:14 GMT, Ron Capik
wrote:

I'm right-handed and my "Voice of God" is on the far left.

I think it is something about reading left to right.

OK, that theory bites the dust. G

It's because God should always be numero uno!

Julian

[Walt]

Scott Fraser wrote:
I remember one gig where the stage guy just
plugged in every mic left to right across the stage, no matter what it
was - no talking him out of this approach, either

Well, the FOH engineer has to be the crew chief, so if you really want
it a certain way, it gets done that way.

It was a festival situation, I was there to mix one band out of a dozen.
20 minute set change. 10 minute walk from FOH to the stage. What are
you going to do?

Sometimes you just gotta play the hand that you're dealt.

//Walt

[Scott Fraser]

It was a festival situation, I was there to mix one band out of a
dozen.
20 minute set change. 10 minute walk from FOH to the stage. What
are
you going to do?

Ah yes, I've done that gig. In that case, you're a guest in their
house. Smile, thank them for their hard work, move on.

Scott Fraser

[Danielle E]

I find some of the most memorable performances I have seen are the ones
where I only say one microphone on stage.

I had the joy of seeing John Hartford, Vassar Clements, Norman Blake and Tut
Taylor play while promoting the "Turn your radio on" album. It was a joy
watching them position themselves at the right time for individual solos.

Danielle

"Mike Rivers" wrote in message
ups.com...

Reply actually to Richard, but Google rejects all my replies to his
posts:

WHat frustrates me is when I get amateurs who move the mics
around once they're set up and then don't stay on the mic I
thought they'd be using.

Don't you just love it when the banjo player is about to play an
instrumental, so he moves his vocal mic down to the banjo so it'll be
louder? And then when he's going to sing again, moves the banjo mic up
to mouth level?

[Mike Rivers]

Danielle E wrote:

I find some of the most memorable performances I have seen are the ones
where I only say one microphone on stage.

I do the sound for a series of music camps where we use one microphone.
Most of the time it works.

I had the joy of seeing John Hartford, Vassar Clements, Norman Blake and Tut
Taylor play while promoting the "Turn your radio on" album. It was a joy
watching them position themselves at the right time for individual solos.

That was a mighty long time ago. John and Vassar are gone. Is Tut still
alive? I haven't heard much about him since that band, and that's been
about 30 years.

About ten years ago, bluegrass bands started working with one mic like
they used to, but most of them have added a couple of mics now. They
just can't be happy (or make enough money) playing venues that are
small enough so as not to need monitors, and unless you stick it in
your ear, you're not going to get monitors with a band playing around
one mic.

[Scott Dorsey]

Walt wrote:
Scott Fraser wrote:
I remember one gig where the stage guy just
plugged in every mic left to right across the stage, no matter what it
was - no talking him out of this approach, either

Well, the FOH engineer has to be the crew chief, so if you really want
it a certain way, it gets done that way.

It was a festival situation, I was there to mix one band out of a dozen.
20 minute set change. 10 minute walk from FOH to the stage. What are
you going to do?

Festivals are that way. Sometimes you have one guy mixing all the bands,
sometimes you have the band's engineer come in for one or two bands, but
the stage crew is always the same.

Sometimes you just gotta play the hand that you're dealt.

That's what makes festivals fun. They can be very meatball, but in the
end everyone has a good time.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[Ron Capik]

Mike Rivers wrote:

Romeo Rondeau wrote:

Gosh, you give the banjo player a mike?

Might as well. If you don't, they'll grab one anyway.

Besides, not all banjos are loud.
And not all instruments with banjo strings on them are banjos.

Don't care how many mic's they have if I control the faders. G

I've also encountered many banjos, mostly open back and
claw hammer style, that are hard to keep in the mix.

I've also experienced the joy of seemingly random switching
from banjo to guitar to balalaika... etc.

Later...

Ron Capik
--

[Jim Gilliland]

Danielle E wrote:
I find some of the most memorable performances I have seen are the ones
where I only say one microphone on stage.

I had the joy of seeing John Hartford, Vassar Clements, Norman Blake and Tut
Taylor play while promoting the "Turn your radio on" album. It was a joy
watching them position themselves at the right time for individual solos.

That would have been a treat. BTW, the album was called Aereo-Plain.

I had the pleasure of recording John with one of his later bands. In
that case as well, they performed around a single 4033 (though we added
a stereo mic to that for the broadcast). While it may be great for the
artist, and perhaps for the listeners in the room, it does not always
result in a great recording. But that depends mostly upon the room -
because you're likely to capture a lot of the room in that
configuration. The recording turned out to be good enough for
broadcast, but sadly I don't consider it one of my best.

[Mike Rivers]

Jim Gilliland wrote:

I had the pleasure of recording John with one of his later bands. In
that case as well, they performed around a single 4033 (though we added
a stereo mic to that for the broadcast). While it may be great for the
artist, and perhaps for the listeners in the room, it does not always
result in a great recording.

The setup that I've been using at camp is a stereo mic (Studio Projects
LSD-2) set up in the M-S configuration. I send the cardioid (by itself)
to the PA system and do a stereo mix of the mid and side mics on the
mixer, which I record. By leaving the level of the side mic alone and
adjusting the level of the mid mic to get the volume in the room right,
things seem to come out about right - more room ambience around a loud
group, less around a quiet soloist.

[Jim Gilliland]

Mike Rivers wrote:

The setup that I've been using at camp is a stereo mic (Studio Projects
LSD-2) set up in the M-S configuration. I send the cardioid (by itself)
to the PA system and do a stereo mix of the mid and side mics on the
mixer, which I record. By leaving the level of the side mic alone and
adjusting the level of the mid mic to get the volume in the room right,
things seem to come out about right - more room ambience around a loud
group, less around a quiet soloist.

I did something similar (using M/S) when recording Rhonda Vincent a
couple of years ago, and the results were definitely better than the
Hartford recording. I still usually find that I can get better (to my
ears anyway) results when I mix individual mics, but when the artist
wants to perform with a single central mic, the M/S approach probably
does provide the best possible outcome.

[Bob Ross]

Based on no specific logic really, just years of doing it the same way:

drums are always --- *always* -- channels 1-8 (or 1-n, depending).
Kick, snare (top, then bottom if used), HH, Rack1, Rack2, Floor, OHL,
OHR. *Always*

bass is always the next channel up

remaining instruments as they appear onstage from stage left to right.
If it's a "deep" band with risers or lots of folks behind the
frontline, I mentally divide the stage into Upstage, Middle Stage (if
necessary), & Downstage, and have the channel assignments follow
Upstage Left to Right, then Downstage Left to Right.

vocals go last, arranged as per above (vis a vis Stage Left to Right,
Upstage before Downstage. If it's a desk with a center master section,
I try to put the vocals on the right side of the VCA/Group masters.

Vocal FX returns go next after vocals; drum or other instrument FX go
wherever convenient.

I assign logical subgroups, so that really gross mix moves can all be
made from the submasters at the center of the desk: eg, drums, bass,
guitars, keys, horns, vox, FX.

prerecorded tracks, video PB, & podium/MC/VOG mic always go to the far
right.


Works for me.