[[email protected]]

Hey everybody. I've recorded 15 of my band's songs recently, all with
the same mic setup on the drums. It was something like this: SM57 on
the toms (2 of them), SM57 on the bass drum mallet, Beta58A on the
snare, MXL-991 Overhead, Audix D6 on the bass drum. As you can tell, my
budget is somewhat limited.

Anyhow, I have all of the mics routed to separate tracks, and I'm
having a lot of trouble isolating each of the sounds and getting the
tones I want in each track to stick out. I've gotten the Low Tom
basically how I want it to sound, but the Hi Tom is a whole different
animal. When I pump up the High EQ ranges, the cymbals bleed through
the track a noticable bit, but when I take them down the Tom loses a
lot of attack. With the Snare, I can't get a good "crack" sound, as I
always end up with either meaty low tones or nasally high tones when I
mess with the EQ. With the Bass, I'm having trouble separately EQing
the BD and BD Mallet tracks so where they blend together.

Thanks for the help,
Hunter

[Scott Dorsey]

wrote:

Anyhow, I have all of the mics routed to separate tracks, and I'm
having a lot of trouble isolating each of the sounds and getting the
tones I want in each track to stick out. I've gotten the Low Tom
basically how I want it to sound, but the Hi Tom is a whole different
animal. When I pump up the High EQ ranges, the cymbals bleed through
the track a noticable bit, but when I take them down the Tom loses a
lot of attack. With the Snare, I can't get a good "crack" sound, as I
always end up with either meaty low tones or nasally high tones when I
mess with the EQ. With the Bass, I'm having trouble separately EQing
the BD and BD Mallet tracks so where they blend together.

That's just how it works. You need to think of the drum set as one
instrument together, not as a bunch of instruments.

Start with the overhead. Get the overhead positioned so it sounds good
and has a good balance to it. You should have some room in there and some
drums in there, and the drums should be balanced with one another.

If the overhead is not good, nothing will be good. Once you have the
overhead then you can bring in the spot mikes.... and you WILL get leakage
and you WILL get other drums changing their sound as you bring them in.
Adding a little delay to the spots so can help make that leakage a little
better, but you cannot avoid the leakage so your goal is to track so that
the leakage sounds good.

If the snare sound is not good in the overheads, it will not be good
anywhere. Think about what you need to ADD into the overheads to make
the snare sound complete, then use the eq on the snare track to bring
just what you need in.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[[email protected]]

I agree with Scott
I woould check to make sure that both overheads are in phase
acoustically with
the snare. Overheads have a chronic habit of removing the bottom end
from a snare
when mixed in with the snare. Try flipping the phase on both overheads
when checking
with the snare and do it in mono. Check the toms too.
kevin

[Michael Wozniak]

wrote in message
oups.com...
Hey everybody. I've recorded 15 of my band's songs recently, all with
the same mic setup on the drums. It was something like this: SM57 on
the toms (2 of them), SM57 on the bass drum mallet, Beta58A on the
snare, MXL-991 Overhead, Audix D6 on the bass drum. As you can tell, my
budget is somewhat limited.

Anyhow, I have all of the mics routed to separate tracks, and I'm
having a lot of trouble isolating each of the sounds and getting the
tones I want in each track to stick out. I've gotten the Low Tom
basically how I want it to sound, but the Hi Tom is a whole different
animal. When I pump up the High EQ ranges, the cymbals bleed through
the track a noticable bit, but when I take them down the Tom loses a
lot of attack. With the Snare, I can't get a good "crack" sound, as I
always end up with either meaty low tones or nasally high tones when I
mess with the EQ. With the Bass, I'm having trouble separately EQing
the BD and BD Mallet tracks so where they blend together.

Thanks for the help,
Hunter

I'd have tried the 58 on the kick mallet, and the 57 on snare. Or forget the
kick mallet, put 57 and 58 over/under the snare. I think the kick mallet is
the least important of all you've mentioned. What kind of music? Rock?
Metal? Jazz? Pop?

Mikey
Nova Music Productions

[*bg*]

wrote in message
oups.com...
Hey everybody. I've recorded 15 of my band's songs recently, all with
the same mic setup on the drums. It was something like this: SM57 on
the toms (2 of them), SM57 on the bass drum mallet, Beta58A on the
snare, MXL-991 Overhead, Audix D6 on the bass drum. As you can tell, my
budget is somewhat limited.

Anyhow, I have all of the mics routed to separate tracks, and I'm
having a lot of trouble isolating each of the sounds and getting the
tones I want in each track to stick out. I've gotten the Low Tom
basically how I want it to sound, but the Hi Tom is a whole different
animal. When I pump up the High EQ ranges, the cymbals bleed through
the track a noticable bit, but when I take them down the Tom loses a
lot of attack. With the Snare, I can't get a good "crack" sound, as I
always end up with either meaty low tones or nasally high tones when I
mess with the EQ. With the Bass, I'm having trouble separately EQing
the BD and BD Mallet tracks so where they blend together.

Thanks for the help,
Hunter


---------------- --------------------- ---------------------
Hey Hunter,

The room you're recording in has a lot to do with your project.

The baffles you use are important, free-standing and individual instrument
baffles all.

Search around here www.musicbooksplus.com for something that is directed at
your challenge, and it is a challenge.

Pre eq is important.

As for the drummer, it ain't gonna sound recorded like it does sitting in
the middle of his kit.

Assuming it's a guy eh

bon chance

-bg-
www.lchb.ca

[Romeo Rondeau]

Anyhow, I have all of the mics routed to separate tracks, and I'm
having a lot of trouble isolating each of the sounds and getting the
tones I want in each track to stick out. I've gotten the Low Tom
basically how I want it to sound, but the Hi Tom is a whole different
animal. When I pump up the High EQ ranges, the cymbals bleed through
the track a noticable bit, but when I take them down the Tom loses a
lot of attack. With the Snare, I can't get a good "crack" sound, as I
always end up with either meaty low tones or nasally high tones when I
mess with the EQ. With the Bass, I'm having trouble separately EQing
the BD and BD Mallet tracks so where they blend together.

Thanks for the help,
Hunter

Hey Hunter! You have already gotten some good advice so far, one thing I
would like to add (pardon the pun!) is to think of EQ in a subtractive
fashion. In other words don't look for what the sound needs more of, but
think of taking away what you don't want. A midrange cut will sound a lot
better than a low end and a high end boost. Although you may be stuck with
what you've already recorded, tell your drummer "toms low and cymbals high"
Also, when you are miking the snare from the top, the crack will come mostly
from the overheads. Remember that isolation is less important than getting a
good "round" sound. I like to have a little distance on the miking instead
of cramming the drum mikes onto the drums. Back those toms mikes up and they
will need a lot less EQ and their positioning becomes less crtitical. You
also don't pick up as many funky resonances as you are picking up more of
the drum. On kick, try a midrange cut (600hz, octave wide or so, 6dB cut
adjusted to taste), you will get rid of the pillowy sound and probably find
that you don't need the "BD Mallet" track.

[[email protected]]

Thanks everyone. For the record though, I am my drummer, haha.

I'll give these suggestions a try.

Romeo Rondeau wrote:
Anyhow, I have all of the mics routed to separate tracks, and I'm
having a lot of trouble isolating each of the sounds and getting the
tones I want in each track to stick out. I've gotten the Low Tom
basically how I want it to sound, but the Hi Tom is a whole different
animal. When I pump up the High EQ ranges, the cymbals bleed through
the track a noticable bit, but when I take them down the Tom loses a
lot of attack. With the Snare, I can't get a good "crack" sound, as I
always end up with either meaty low tones or nasally high tones when I
mess with the EQ. With the Bass, I'm having trouble separately EQing
the BD and BD Mallet tracks so where they blend together.

Thanks for the help,
Hunter

Hey Hunter! You have already gotten some good advice so far, one thing I
would like to add (pardon the pun!) is to think of EQ in a subtractive
fashion. In other words don't look for what the sound needs more of, but
think of taking away what you don't want. A midrange cut will sound a lot
better than a low end and a high end boost. Although you may be stuck with
what you've already recorded, tell your drummer "toms low and cymbals high"
Also, when you are miking the snare from the top, the crack will come mostly
from the overheads. Remember that isolation is less important than getting a
good "round" sound. I like to have a little distance on the miking instead
of cramming the drum mikes onto the drums. Back those toms mikes up and they
will need a lot less EQ and their positioning becomes less crtitical. You
also don't pick up as many funky resonances as you are picking up more of
the drum. On kick, try a midrange cut (600hz, octave wide or so, 6dB cut
adjusted to taste), you will get rid of the pillowy sound and probably find
that you don't need the "BD Mallet" track.

[Steven Sena]

Well it all starts with the KIT...


--
Steven Sena


wrote in message
oups.com...
Hey everybody. I've recorded 15 of my band's songs recently, all with
the same mic setup on the drums. It was something like this: SM57 on
the toms (2 of them), SM57 on the bass drum mallet, Beta58A on the
snare, MXL-991 Overhead, Audix D6 on the bass drum. As you can tell, my
budget is somewhat limited.

Anyhow, I have all of the mics routed to separate tracks, and I'm
having a lot of trouble isolating each of the sounds and getting the
tones I want in each track to stick out. I've gotten the Low Tom
basically how I want it to sound, but the Hi Tom is a whole different
animal. When I pump up the High EQ ranges, the cymbals bleed through
the track a noticable bit, but when I take them down the Tom loses a
lot of attack. With the Snare, I can't get a good "crack" sound, as I
always end up with either meaty low tones or nasally high tones when I
mess with the EQ. With the Bass, I'm having trouble separately EQing
the BD and BD Mallet tracks so where they blend together.

Thanks for the help,
Hunter

[*bg*]

wrote in message
oups.com...
Thanks everyone. For the record though, I am my drummer, haha.

I'll give these suggestions a try.

Romeo Rondeau wrote:
Anyhow, I have all of the mics routed to separate tracks, and I'm
having a lot of trouble isolating each of the sounds and getting the
tones I want in each track to stick out. I've gotten the Low Tom
basically how I want it to sound, but the Hi Tom is a whole different
animal. When I pump up the High EQ ranges, the cymbals bleed through
the track a noticable bit, but when I take them down the Tom loses a
lot of attack. With the Snare, I can't get a good "crack" sound, as I
always end up with either meaty low tones or nasally high tones when I
mess with the EQ. With the Bass, I'm having trouble separately EQing
the BD and BD Mallet tracks so where they blend together.

Thanks for the help,
Hunter

Hey Hunter! You have already gotten some good advice so far, one thing I
would like to add (pardon the pun!) is to think of EQ in a subtractive
fashion. In other words don't look for what the sound needs more of, but
think of taking away what you don't want. A midrange cut will sound a lot
better than a low end and a high end boost. Although you may be stuck
with
what you've already recorded, tell your drummer "toms low and cymbals
high"
Also, when you are miking the snare from the top, the crack will come
mostly
from the overheads. Remember that isolation is less important than
getting a
good "round" sound. I like to have a little distance on the miking
instead
of cramming the drum mikes onto the drums. Back those toms mikes up and
they
will need a lot less EQ and their positioning becomes less crtitical. You
also don't pick up as many funky resonances as you are picking up more of
the drum. On kick, try a midrange cut (600hz, octave wide or so, 6dB cut
adjusted to taste), you will get rid of the pillowy sound and probably
find
that you don't need the "BD Mallet" track.

********** ************

Everybody so far has good advice, starting with Mr Sena, which *is* the
place to start...the kit of course...

Then there are the many mics and their placement, and the room and bafflin,
as i was saying.

Compression and eq are important components in a study that is lifelong.

Equally important components are trial, error, change, time...lotsa
time...years.

You are fortunate that you are a drummer; drummer-engineers are among the
fastest to 'get it.'

You aint gonna get it in a shorter time than a long time.

Get PAZ freq recognition software.

***Get some books***

Study Bobby Owsinsky, get his masterpiece Mixing Engineer's Handbook; check
out http://www.digitalprosound.com/2002/...g_excerpt1.htm

Be prepared to study and spend money, this eq starter reference might help:


12K air



8-10 K Upper Mids, Edge



5-7 K Articulation Zone



1.6-4K Hurtin' Zone



500-1.6 Mids



200-450 Lower Mid, Warmth, Mud Zone, only one lives here, commonly cut a lot



200 Moo Zone



100 Pop Zone, Warmth



50 Thud Zone




Stay tuned.

-bg-
www.lchb.ca