[Andre Jute]

The excellent Robert Morein wrote in the thread "America has a great
new concert hall"

When the Towers stood, I had ambiguous feelings toward
them. I never went inside. Crossing the WTC plaza, they affected me with
inhuman scale, failing to warm the neighborhood, which relied still on
decrepit old buildings on side streets to provide the amenities that make
even a workday existence bearable.

But now they are gone. I miss them the way I miss the other trademark
aspirations to greatness that this country made before encountering the
limits of growth. I'm not sure why. It brings to mind all the contradictions
of being American: opportunities, some real, some virtual, some imaginary.
Patriotism that tries to imply kinship with strangers, yet cities full of
neighborhoods in which I cannot walk. Usenet newsgroups of vicious, hostile
people. Invitations to kindness, or evil. Real heroes who don't know they
are, and people who imagine themselve such.

On a day like this, I define myself by the illusions I choose to keep, the
hopes I cherish, and willing blindness toward omnipresent evil.

Bob Morein
(215) 646-4894

This is superb writing, from the heart. The President should hire you
to write his State of the Union address, Bob. Man your phone!

But I want to address just a single thought in this, which has also
been exercising my mind. Actually, it is both liberalism and
libertarianism that in different ways try
to imply kinship with strangers, yet cities full of
neighborhoods in which I cannot walk. Usenet newsgroups of vicious, hostile
people.

The essence of liberty is free speech. I therefore welcomed the
Internet and the Usenet as free, uncontrolled and uncontrollable
communications channels for Everyman. I had long thought it inequitable
that a rather tiny percentage of well-educated and articulate people
should have so much control over what Everyman learns, consumes and
thinks, and expected to welcome an explosion of democracy. Instead
Everyman turned out be a petty, vicious, nasty little control freak
motivated not by the aspiration to better himself but by such blind
envy of his betters that his only response is to try bringing them down
to his own level. The equivalence between the Usenet and the ghetto
where any outsider (automatically assumed to be superior...) is not an
example to aspire to but merely a target to be brutalized, is a
brilliant insight, Bob. It is also a deeply saddening observation.

Andre Jute
The rat is the paradigm -- Tom Sharpe

[Sander deWaal]

"Andre Jute" said:


But I want to address just a single thought in this, which has also
been exercising my mind. Actually, it is both liberalism and
libertarianism that in different ways try

to imply kinship with strangers, yet cities full of
neighborhoods in which I cannot walk. Usenet newsgroups of vicious, hostile
people.


The essence of liberty is free speech. I therefore welcomed the
Internet and the Usenet as free, uncontrolled and uncontrollable
communications channels for Everyman. I had long thought it inequitable
that a rather tiny percentage of well-educated and articulate people
should have so much control over what Everyman learns, consumes and
thinks, and expected to welcome an explosion of democracy. Instead
Everyman turned out be a petty, vicious, nasty little control freak
motivated not by the aspiration to better himself but by such blind
envy of his betters that his only response is to try bringing them down
to his own level. The equivalence between the Usenet and the ghetto
where any outsider (automatically assumed to be superior...) is not an
example to aspire to but merely a target to be brutalized, is a
brilliant insight, Bob. It is also a deeply saddening observation.


I try to keep in mind that 10 or even more years from now, everyone
can still access the Google database and read what I wrote.

That thought frightens me every now and then, and it serves to remind
me of my responsibilities, both as a fellow human being and as an
audio person.

I wish I could undo some (a lot, actually) of the things I wrote.
I learn everyday, and what may seem totally logical and truthful to me
today, may well be proven very wrong tomorrow.


They say usenet is a volatile medium.
Google, however, never forgets anything.

--
"Due knot trussed yore spell chequer two fined awl miss steaks."

[George M. Middius]

Sander deWaal said:

They say usenet is a volatile medium.
Google, however, never forgets anything.

Unless you use the "No Archive" flag in your posts.




--

"Christians have to ... work to make the world as loving, just, and supportive as is possible."
A. Krooger, Aug. 2006

[Sander deWaal]

George M. Middius cmndr [underscore] george [at] comcast [dot] net
said:


They say usenet is a volatile medium.
Google, however, never forgets anything.


Unless you use the "No Archive" flag in your posts.


That is indeed an option.

However, I like to see people face to face.
A little self-restraint and -awareness is the last barrier in
preventing total chaos, IMHO.

--
"Due knot trussed yore spell chequer two fined awl miss steaks."

[paul packer]

On Tue, 12 Sep 2006 12:38:21 -0400, "Soundhaspriority"
wrote:


"Andre Jute" wrote in message
roups.com...
The excellent Robert Morein wrote in the thread "America has a great
new concert hall"

When the Towers stood, I had ambiguous feelings toward
them. I never went inside. Crossing the WTC plaza, they affected me with
inhuman scale, failing to warm the neighborhood, which relied still on
decrepit old buildings on side streets to provide the amenities that make
even a workday existence bearable.

But now they are gone. I miss them the way I miss the other trademark
aspirations to greatness that this country made before encountering the
limits of growth. I'm not sure why. It brings to mind all the
contradictions
of being American: opportunities, some real, some virtual, some
imaginary.
Patriotism that tries to imply kinship with strangers, yet cities full of
neighborhoods in which I cannot walk. Usenet newsgroups of vicious,
hostile
people. Invitations to kindness, or evil. Real heroes who don't know they
are, and people who imagine themselve such.

On a day like this, I define myself by the illusions I choose to keep,
the
hopes I cherish, and willing blindness toward omnipresent evil.

Bob Morein
(215) 646-4894

This is superb writing, from the heart. The President should hire you
to write his State of the Union address, Bob. Man your phone!

But I want to address just a single thought in this, which has also
been exercising my mind. Actually, it is both liberalism and
libertarianism that in different ways try
to imply kinship with strangers, yet cities full of
neighborhoods in which I cannot walk. Usenet newsgroups of vicious,
hostile
people.

The essence of liberty is free speech. I therefore welcomed the
Internet and the Usenet as free, uncontrolled and uncontrollable
communications channels for Everyman. I had long thought it inequitable
that a rather tiny percentage of well-educated and articulate people
should have so much control over what Everyman learns, consumes and
thinks, and expected to welcome an explosion of democracy. Instead
Everyman turned out be a petty, vicious, nasty little control freak
motivated not by the aspiration to better himself but by such blind
envy of his betters that his only response is to try bringing them down
to his own level. The equivalence between the Usenet and the ghetto
where any outsider (automatically assumed to be superior...) is not an
example to aspire to but merely a target to be brutalized, is a
brilliant insight, Bob. It is also a deeply saddening observation.

Andre Jute
The rat is the paradigm -- Tom Sharpe

Thank you, Andre. Your expansion is welcome. Our mutual observation

This is a very nice thread. Everyone agreeing with everyone else and
handily expanding on their reflections. I think this won't catch on.

was anticipated in Lord of the Flies.

Ah yes...pig's head on a stick....Simon torn to pieces...Ralph hunted
through the forest. Certainly reminiscent of RAO.

I think it is a particular problem with
usenet due to the tradition of anonymity, which implies no accountability.
Usenet is a universe of Dark Matter, of sparring ghosts, of which many, in
their behavior, resemble the demons of the Afterlife, endlessly repeating
the obsessions held in the moments of their deaths.

Don't be afraid to name names, Robert. You shouldn't just tantalize.

[Andre Jute]

paul packer wrote:
On Tue, 12 Sep 2006 12:38:21 -0400, "Soundhaspriority"
wrote:


"Andre Jute" wrote in message
roups.com...
The excellent Robert Morein wrote in the thread "America has a great
new concert hall"

When the Towers stood, I had ambiguous feelings toward
them. I never went inside. Crossing the WTC plaza, they affected me with
inhuman scale, failing to warm the neighborhood, which relied still on
decrepit old buildings on side streets to provide the amenities that make
even a workday existence bearable.

But now they are gone. I miss them the way I miss the other trademark
aspirations to greatness that this country made before encountering the
limits of growth. I'm not sure why. It brings to mind all the
contradictions
of being American: opportunities, some real, some virtual, some
imaginary.
Patriotism that tries to imply kinship with strangers, yet cities full of
neighborhoods in which I cannot walk. Usenet newsgroups of vicious,
hostile
people. Invitations to kindness, or evil. Real heroes who don't know they
are, and people who imagine themselve such.

On a day like this, I define myself by the illusions I choose to keep,
the
hopes I cherish, and willing blindness toward omnipresent evil.

Bob Morein
(215) 646-4894

This is superb writing, from the heart. The President should hire you
to write his State of the Union address, Bob. Man your phone!

But I want to address just a single thought in this, which has also
been exercising my mind. Actually, it is both liberalism and
libertarianism that in different ways try
to imply kinship with strangers, yet cities full of
neighborhoods in which I cannot walk. Usenet newsgroups of vicious,
hostile
people.

The essence of liberty is free speech. I therefore welcomed the
Internet and the Usenet as free, uncontrolled and uncontrollable
communications channels for Everyman. I had long thought it inequitable
that a rather tiny percentage of well-educated and articulate people
should have so much control over what Everyman learns, consumes and
thinks, and expected to welcome an explosion of democracy. Instead
Everyman turned out be a petty, vicious, nasty little control freak
motivated not by the aspiration to better himself but by such blind
envy of his betters that his only response is to try bringing them down
to his own level. The equivalence between the Usenet and the ghetto
where any outsider (automatically assumed to be superior...) is not an
example to aspire to but merely a target to be brutalized, is a
brilliant insight, Bob. It is also a deeply saddening observation.

Andre Jute
The rat is the paradigm -- Tom Sharpe

Thank you, Andre. Your expansion is welcome. Our mutual observation

This is a very nice thread. Everyone agreeing with everyone else and
handily expanding on their reflections. I think this won't catch on.

was anticipated in Lord of the Flies.

Ah yes...pig's head on a stick....Simon torn to pieces...Ralph hunted
through the forest. Certainly reminiscent of RAO.

I think it is a particular problem with
usenet due to the tradition of anonymity, which implies no accountability.
Usenet is a universe of Dark Matter, of sparring ghosts, of which many, in
their behavior, resemble the demons of the Afterlife, endlessly repeating
the obsessions held in the moments of their deaths.

Don't be afraid to name names, Robert. You shouldn't just tantalize.

Bob is paying you the compliment of assuming that you are as well read
as he is, and as imaginative. It would spoil the thrill of this, for
instance:
Usenet is a universe of Dark Matter, of sparring ghosts, of which many, in
their behavior, resemble the demons of the Afterlife, endlessly repeating
the obsessions held in the moments of their deaths
after giving you so many clues, to label it a Dantean vision from the
inner rings of Hell.

Andre Jute
http://members.lycos.co.uk/fiultra/THE%20WRITER'S%20HOUSE.html

[Andre Jute]

paul packer wrote:
On Tue, 12 Sep 2006 12:38:21 -0400, "Soundhaspriority"
wrote:


"Andre Jute" wrote in message
roups.com...
The excellent Robert Morein wrote in the thread "America has a great
new concert hall"

When the Towers stood, I had ambiguous feelings toward
them. I never went inside. Crossing the WTC plaza, they affected me with
inhuman scale, failing to warm the neighborhood, which relied still on
decrepit old buildings on side streets to provide the amenities that make
even a workday existence bearable.

But now they are gone. I miss them the way I miss the other trademark
aspirations to greatness that this country made before encountering the
limits of growth. I'm not sure why. It brings to mind all the
contradictions
of being American: opportunities, some real, some virtual, some
imaginary.
Patriotism that tries to imply kinship with strangers, yet cities full of
neighborhoods in which I cannot walk. Usenet newsgroups of vicious,
hostile
people. Invitations to kindness, or evil. Real heroes who don't know they
are, and people who imagine themselve such.

On a day like this, I define myself by the illusions I choose to keep,
the
hopes I cherish, and willing blindness toward omnipresent evil.

Bob Morein
(215) 646-4894

This is superb writing, from the heart. The President should hire you
to write his State of the Union address, Bob. Man your phone!

But I want to address just a single thought in this, which has also
been exercising my mind. Actually, it is both liberalism and
libertarianism that in different ways try
to imply kinship with strangers, yet cities full of
neighborhoods in which I cannot walk. Usenet newsgroups of vicious,
hostile
people.

The essence of liberty is free speech. I therefore welcomed the
Internet and the Usenet as free, uncontrolled and uncontrollable
communications channels for Everyman. I had long thought it inequitable
that a rather tiny percentage of well-educated and articulate people
should have so much control over what Everyman learns, consumes and
thinks, and expected to welcome an explosion of democracy. Instead
Everyman turned out be a petty, vicious, nasty little control freak
motivated not by the aspiration to better himself but by such blind
envy of his betters that his only response is to try bringing them down
to his own level. The equivalence between the Usenet and the ghetto
where any outsider (automatically assumed to be superior...) is not an
example to aspire to but merely a target to be brutalized, is a
brilliant insight, Bob. It is also a deeply saddening observation.

Andre Jute
The rat is the paradigm -- Tom Sharpe

Thank you, Andre. Your expansion is welcome. Our mutual observation

This is a very nice thread. Everyone agreeing with everyone else and
handily expanding on their reflections. I think this won't catch on.

was anticipated in Lord of the Flies.

Ah yes...pig's head on a stick....Simon torn to pieces...Ralph hunted
through the forest. Certainly reminiscent of RAO.

I think it is a particular problem with
usenet due to the tradition of anonymity, which implies no accountability.
Usenet is a universe of Dark Matter, of sparring ghosts, of which many, in
their behavior, resemble the demons of the Afterlife, endlessly repeating
the obsessions held in the moments of their deaths.

Don't be afraid to name names, Robert. You shouldn't just tantalize.

Bob is paying you the compliment of assuming that you are as well read
as he is, and as imaginative. It would spoil the thrill of this, for
instance:
Usenet is a universe of Dark Matter, of sparring ghosts, of which many, in
their behavior, resemble the demons of the Afterlife, endlessly repeating
the obsessions held in the moments of their deaths
after giving you so many clues, to label it a Dantean vision from the
inner rings of Hell.

Andre Jute
http://members.lycos.co.uk/fiultra/THE%20WRITER'S%20HOUSE.html

[Andre Jute]

Sander deWaal wrote:
"Andre Jute" said:


But I want to address just a single thought in this, which has also
been exercising my mind. Actually, it is both liberalism and
libertarianism that in different ways try

to imply kinship with strangers, yet cities full of
neighborhoods in which I cannot walk. Usenet newsgroups of vicious, hostile
people.


The essence of liberty is free speech. I therefore welcomed the
Internet and the Usenet as free, uncontrolled and uncontrollable
communications channels for Everyman. I had long thought it inequitable
that a rather tiny percentage of well-educated and articulate people
should have so much control over what Everyman learns, consumes and
thinks, and expected to welcome an explosion of democracy. Instead
Everyman turned out be a petty, vicious, nasty little control freak
motivated not by the aspiration to better himself but by such blind
envy of his betters that his only response is to try bringing them down
to his own level. The equivalence between the Usenet and the ghetto
where any outsider (automatically assumed to be superior...) is not an
example to aspire to but merely a target to be brutalized, is a
brilliant insight, Bob. It is also a deeply saddening observation.


I try to keep in mind that 10 or even more years from now, everyone
can still access the Google database and read what I wrote.

That thought frightens me every now and then, and it serves to remind
me of my responsibilities, both as a fellow human being and as an
audio person.

I wish I could undo some (a lot, actually) of the things I wrote.
I learn everyday, and what may seem totally logical and truthful to me
today, may well be proven very wrong tomorrow.


They say usenet is a volatile medium.
Google, however, never forgets anything.

--
"Due knot trussed yore spell chequer two fined awl miss steaks."

Google is the repository of an unbiased record. I have nothing to fear
from the truth evaluated in a calm atmosphere. I have an example:

You were here when I broke the back of the Magnequest Scum. At the
time, you will remember, I, and the very few who stood up with me
against the bullying of that slime, were widely, almost universally
abused because the members of the Magnequest Scum were popular. I paid
no attention, of course -- I do what is right regardless, and this scum
had chosen to put itself in my face -- and took my time dealing with
them, warning them at each stage that they were about to get hurt,
giving them multiple chances to run and save themselves. I was still
the subject of vituperation for a few years. But now the table is
turning. Those who read the record in Google without the baleful light
of friendship, loyalty, emotion or profit casting a purple light on the
proceedings, virtually without exception conclude that the Magnequest
Scum started the fight, and that I acted correctly (indeed generously)
throughout, and above all that I never exceeded the bounds of civilized
restraint.

As the truth is my friend, so is Google my friend.

Andre Jute
Truth is liberty -- Andre Jute, on the barricades in Paris 1968 (1)

(1) Christ, no, I wasn't beating up gendarmes. I moved from barricade
to barricade, spotted the instigators and demagogues -- and hired these
guaranteed articulate and inventive intelligences as copywriters for my
ad agency; those "revolutionaries" earned plenty for me, and for the
"multinationals" their grandchildren are now demonstrating against!