[[email protected]]

What components would you put into the best money-no-object music
system in the world?

I nominate:

tube amp: the WAVAC SH-833 - $350,000
turntable: Rockport Sirius III - $70,000

What should be the other components: speakers, preamp, tuner, DAC, cd
player, etc.?

[Arny Krueger]

wrote in message
oups.com

What components would you put into the best
money-no-object music system in the world?

I nominate:

tube amp: the WAVAC SH-833 - $350,000

A crappy amp on any grounds but price.

turntable: Rockport Sirius III - $70,000

Inherently substandard because its dependent on crappy, substandard media.

What should be the other components: speakers, preamp, tuner, DAC, cd
player, etc.?

In reality, it would be mostly about the speakers and the room.

[bassett]

"Stuart Krivis" wrote in message
...
On 11 Sep 2006 07:47:59 -0700, wrote:

What components would you put into the best money-no-object music
system in the world?

I nominate:

tube amp: the WAVAC SH-833 - $350,000
turntable: Rockport Sirius III - $70,000

What should be the other components: speakers, preamp, tuner, DAC, cd
player, etc.?

It appears that you feel expensive = good.

Of course, since I'm sure you've never even heard these components, I
fail to see how you could nominate them.

Maybe you'd be better off just having some earplugs made of platinum.
It's a very expensive metal and I bet it would sound just wonderful to
you.


I would suggest that if you could locate a "Rockport" for that price it
would be the buy of the year. Unfortunatly, they are very short on the
gound , some would even suggest even extint, when it comes to buying them.
Not wishing to spoil your day, but the "Wavac" does not support a
turntable, as it does not have a Phono stage.
But on the bright side the Rockport does.

As for speakers , Grand Utopia's would look nice, on the bankruptcy
applecation.
bassett

[Ro_ro]

It'd be interesting (though predictable) to hear what would be his
ultimate...

- house
- car
- trophy wife

.... and all those other things you need to really live the American dream,
boy...


"Stuart Krivis" wrote in message
...
On 11 Sep 2006 07:47:59 -0700, wrote:

What components would you put into the best money-no-object music
system in the world?

I nominate:

tube amp: the WAVAC SH-833 - $350,000
turntable: Rockport Sirius III - $70,000

What should be the other components: speakers, preamp, tuner, DAC, cd
player, etc.?

It appears that you feel expensive = good.

Of course, since I'm sure you've never even heard these components, I
fail to see how you could nominate them.

Maybe you'd be better off just having some earplugs made of platinum.
It's a very expensive metal and I bet it would sound just wonderful to
you.

[bassett]

"Ro_ro" wrote in message
...
It'd be interesting (though predictable) to hear what would be his
ultimate...

- house
- car
- trophy wife

... and all those other things you need to really live the American dream,
boy...

It's quite simply really,, move out of that "George Bush Sewer" and
relocate to OZ.

As for the term trophy wife,, I knew this septic female once, Refused to
give "head" had no bloody idea about anything sexual, and had about 20
layers of make-up on. The bitch lived in a Trailer Park, and thought it was
heaven. Gerry Springer was her ideal man.
bassett

[[email protected]]

wrote:
What components would you put into the best money-no-object music
system in the world?

I nominate:

tube amp: the WAVAC SH-833 - $350,000
turntable: Rockport Sirius III - $70,000

What should be the other components: speakers, preamp, tuner, DAC, cd
player, etc.?

The Rockport is FAR from being the best TT out there. I've heard it,
I've heard the Continuum, and I've heard the Clearaudio Statement, and
my favorite 'table/arm combo is still the Wilson Benesch Act ONE with a
Breuer arm, which can be purchased for a fraction of the price of those
others.

Boon

[Jenn]

In article . com,
wrote:

wrote:
What components would you put into the best money-no-object music
system in the world?

I nominate:

tube amp: the WAVAC SH-833 - $350,000
turntable: Rockport Sirius III - $70,000

What should be the other components: speakers, preamp, tuner, DAC, cd
player, etc.?

The Rockport is FAR from being the best TT out there. I've heard it,
I've heard the Continuum, and I've heard the Clearaudio Statement, and
my favorite 'table/arm combo is still the Wilson Benesch Act ONE with a
Breuer arm, which can be purchased for a fraction of the price of those
others.

Boon

About $3000 in the late '90s, yes?

[Jenn]

In article ,
"bassett" wrote:

"Ro_ro" wrote in message
...
It'd be interesting (though predictable) to hear what would be his
ultimate...

- house
- car
- trophy wife

... and all those other things you need to really live the American dream,
boy...

It's quite simply really,, move out of that "George Bush Sewer" and
relocate to OZ.

As for the term trophy wife,, I knew this septic female once, Refused to
give "head" had no bloody idea about anything sexual, and had about 20
layers of make-up on. The bitch lived in a Trailer Park, and thought it was
heaven. Gerry Springer was her ideal man.
bassett

So if she was such a turn off to you (make up, trailer park, etc.) why
were you in a sexual situation with her?

[Eeyore]

wrote:

wrote:
What components would you put into the best money-no-object music
system in the world?

I nominate:

tube amp: the WAVAC SH-833 - $350,000
turntable: Rockport Sirius III - $70,000

What should be the other components: speakers, preamp, tuner, DAC, cd
player, etc.?

The Rockport is FAR from being the best TT out there. I've heard it,
I've heard the Continuum, and I've heard the Clearaudio Statement, and
my favorite 'table/arm combo is still the Wilson Benesch Act ONE with a
Breuer arm, which can be purchased for a fraction of the price of those
others.

What difference does it make ?

Graham

[paul packer]

On Fri, 22 Sep 2006 04:33:58 GMT, Jenn
wrote:

In article ,
"bassett" wrote:

"Ro_ro" wrote in message
...
It'd be interesting (though predictable) to hear what would be his
ultimate...

- house
- car
- trophy wife

... and all those other things you need to really live the American dream,
boy...

It's quite simply really,, move out of that "George Bush Sewer" and
relocate to OZ.

As for the term trophy wife,, I knew this septic female once, Refused to
give "head" had no bloody idea about anything sexual, and had about 20
layers of make-up on. The bitch lived in a Trailer Park, and thought it was
heaven. Gerry Springer was her ideal man.
bassett

So if she was such a turn off to you (make up, trailer park, etc.) why
were you in a sexual situation with her?


You're not actually taking bassett at his word, are you?

[George M. Middius]

DonkeyBorg brayed:

The Rockport is FAR from being the best TT out there. I've heard it,
I've heard the Continuum, and I've heard the Clearaudio Statement, and
my favorite 'table/arm combo is still the Wilson Benesch Act ONE with a
Breuer arm, which can be purchased for a fraction of the price of those
others.

What difference does it make ?

To the likes of you, no difference, of course.

You should have taken my advice and shut up, Poopie. Now more and more
people are learning what a jackass you are.




--

"Christians have to ... work to make the world as loving, just, and supportive as is possible."
A. Krooger, Aug. 2006

[Arny Krueger]

"Jenn" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"bassett" wrote:

"Ro_ro" wrote in message
...
It'd be interesting (though predictable) to hear what would be his
ultimate...

- house
- car
- trophy wife

... and all those other things you need to really live the American
dream,
boy...

It's quite simply really,, move out of that "George Bush Sewer" and
relocate to OZ.

As for the term trophy wife,, I knew this septic female once, Refused
to
give "head" had no bloody idea about anything sexual, and had about 20
layers of make-up on. The bitch lived in a Trailer Park, and thought it
was
heaven. Gerry Springer was her ideal man.

So if she was such a turn off to you (make up, trailer park, etc.) why
were you in a sexual situation with her?

Good question, Jenn. The "Guy" version of your question would be cut to the
chase and ask how many beers in the cheap bar it took him to get there.
Also, since Basset was obviously in dire need of a certain kind of fairly
strong stimulation, it is pretty clear that he was suffering from ED at
the time.

[Arny Krueger]

"Eeyore" wrote in
message ...


wrote:

wrote:
What components would you put into the best money-no-object music
system in the world?

I nominate:

tube amp: the WAVAC SH-833 - $350,000
turntable: Rockport Sirius III - $70,000

What should be the other components: speakers, preamp, tuner, DAC, cd
player, etc.?

The Rockport is FAR from being the best TT out there. I've heard it,
I've heard the Continuum, and I've heard the Clearaudio Statement, and
my favorite 'table/arm combo is still the Wilson Benesch Act ONE with a
Breuer arm, which can be purchased for a fraction of the price of those
others.

What difference does it make ?

You missed the point Graham, which was for Marc to brag on Usenet about all
the expensive hardware that he has "heard". No doubt Marc heard each TT in
a different place, on a different day, with a different audio system
attached to it, and probably even with different source materials. Yep,
really close, fair evaluations. NOT!

[Eeyore]

Arny Krueger wrote:

"Eeyore" wrote
wrote:
wrote:
What components would you put into the best money-no-object music
system in the world?

I nominate:

tube amp: the WAVAC SH-833 - $350,000
turntable: Rockport Sirius III - $70,000

What should be the other components: speakers, preamp, tuner, DAC, cd
player, etc.?

The Rockport is FAR from being the best TT out there. I've heard it,
I've heard the Continuum, and I've heard the Clearaudio Statement, and
my favorite 'table/arm combo is still the Wilson Benesch Act ONE with a
Breuer arm, which can be purchased for a fraction of the price of those
others.

What difference does it make ?

You missed the point Graham,

Maybe not ?


which was for Marc to brag on Usenet about all
the expensive hardware that he has "heard". No doubt Marc heard each TT in
a different place, on a different day, with a different audio system
attached to it, and probably even with different source materials. Yep,
really close, fair evaluations. NOT!

I was thinking something similar.

Graham

[Jenn]

In article ,
"Arny Krueger" wrote:

"Eeyore" wrote in
message ...


wrote:

wrote:
What components would you put into the best money-no-object music
system in the world?

I nominate:

tube amp: the WAVAC SH-833 - $350,000
turntable: Rockport Sirius III - $70,000

What should be the other components: speakers, preamp, tuner, DAC, cd
player, etc.?

The Rockport is FAR from being the best TT out there. I've heard it,
I've heard the Continuum, and I've heard the Clearaudio Statement, and
my favorite 'table/arm combo is still the Wilson Benesch Act ONE with a
Breuer arm, which can be purchased for a fraction of the price of those
others.

What difference does it make ?

You missed the point Graham, which was for Marc to brag on Usenet about all
the expensive hardware that he has "heard". No doubt Marc heard each TT in
a different place, on a different day, with a different audio system
attached to it, and probably even with different source materials. Yep,
really close, fair evaluations. NOT!

Just curious: How else does one evaluate multiple TTs? (other than the
source materials should be the same, of course)

[Jenn]

In article ,
(paul packer) wrote:

On Fri, 22 Sep 2006 04:33:58 GMT, Jenn
wrote:

In article ,
"bassett" wrote:

"Ro_ro" wrote in message
...
It'd be interesting (though predictable) to hear what would be his
ultimate...

- house
- car
- trophy wife

... and all those other things you need to really live the American
dream,
boy...

It's quite simply really,, move out of that "George Bush Sewer" and
relocate to OZ.

As for the term trophy wife,, I knew this septic female once, Refused to
give "head" had no bloody idea about anything sexual, and had about 20
layers of make-up on. The bitch lived in a Trailer Park, and thought it
was
heaven. Gerry Springer was her ideal man.
bassett

So if she was such a turn off to you (make up, trailer park, etc.) why
were you in a sexual situation with her?


You're not actually taking bassett at his word, are you?

Nah. Besides, I can't hear him over the sound of his knuckles dragging.

[George M. Middius]

Jenn said to SolidConcreteHeadBorg:

Just curious: How else does one evaluate multiple TTs? (other than the
source materials should be the same, of course)

Asking the Krooborg that question is like asking a vampire how to evaluate
garlic or sunlight.





--

"Christians have to ... work to make the world as loving, just, and supportive as is possible."
A. Krooger, Aug. 2006

[Arny Krueger]

"Jenn" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"Arny Krueger" wrote:

"Eeyore" wrote in
message ...


wrote:

wrote:
What components would you put into the best money-no-object music
system in the world?

I nominate:

tube amp: the WAVAC SH-833 - $350,000
turntable: Rockport Sirius III - $70,000

What should be the other components: speakers, preamp, tuner, DAC,
cd
player, etc.?

The Rockport is FAR from being the best TT out there. I've heard it,
I've heard the Continuum, and I've heard the Clearaudio Statement, and
my favorite 'table/arm combo is still the Wilson Benesch Act ONE with
a
Breuer arm, which can be purchased for a fraction of the price of
those
others.

What difference does it make ?

You missed the point Graham, which was for Marc to brag on Usenet about
all
the expensive hardware that he has "heard". No doubt Marc heard each TT
in
a different place, on a different day, with a different audio system
attached to it, and probably even with different source materials. Yep,
really close, fair evaluations. NOT!

Just curious: How else does one evaluate multiple TTs? (other than the
source materials should be the same, of course)

It seems obvious that when evaluating *anything* one would want to hold as
many variables constant as possible.

We did comparative evaluations of cartridges some years back, which is a
similar problem. Here's how we did it:

(1) 2 identical turntables, tonearms, bases, etc., both checked out through
the main system right before the test with test records, protractors, etc.
(2) Pairs of identical stamper-numbered LPs, all fresh, clean and new at the
beginning of the test.
(3) Identical preamps. Of course we played them back through the same main
system.
(4) An operator that maintained the LPs in synch during the test.
(5) All of the above hidden from the listeners.

The listeners compared the alternatives by switching the main system between
the outputs of the two preamps.

If you don't control the variables, how can you reasonably attribute any
sonic differences to just one of many variables?

[Jenn]

In article ,
"Arny Krueger" wrote:

"Jenn" wrote in message

...
In article ,
"Arny Krueger" wrote:

"Eeyore" wrote in
message ...


wrote:

wrote:
What components would you put into the best money-no-object music
system in the world?

I nominate:

tube amp: the WAVAC SH-833 - $350,000
turntable: Rockport Sirius III - $70,000

What should be the other components: speakers, preamp, tuner, DAC,
cd
player, etc.?

The Rockport is FAR from being the best TT out there. I've heard it,
I've heard the Continuum, and I've heard the Clearaudio Statement, and
my favorite 'table/arm combo is still the Wilson Benesch Act ONE with
a
Breuer arm, which can be purchased for a fraction of the price of
those
others.

What difference does it make ?

You missed the point Graham, which was for Marc to brag on Usenet about
all
the expensive hardware that he has "heard". No doubt Marc heard each TT
in
a different place, on a different day, with a different audio system
attached to it, and probably even with different source materials. Yep,
really close, fair evaluations. NOT!

Just curious: How else does one evaluate multiple TTs? (other than the
source materials should be the same, of course)

It seems obvious that when evaluating *anything* one would want to hold as
many variables constant as possible.

We did comparative evaluations of cartridges some years back, which is a
similar problem. Here's how we did it:

(1) 2 identical turntables, tonearms, bases, etc., both checked out through
the main system right before the test with test records, protractors, etc.
(2) Pairs of identical stamper-numbered LPs, all fresh, clean and new at the
beginning of the test.
(3) Identical preamps. Of course we played them back through the same main
system.
(4) An operator that maintained the LPs in synch during the test.
(5) All of the above hidden from the listeners.

The listeners compared the alternatives by switching the main system between
the outputs of the two preamps.

If you don't control the variables, how can you reasonably attribute any
sonic differences to just one of many variables?

All true of course. But in the real world, it's difficult to find, say,
the 4 TTs you want to hear in one store.

[Arny Krueger]

"Jenn" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"Arny Krueger" wrote:

"Jenn" wrote in message

...
In article ,
"Arny Krueger" wrote:

"Eeyore" wrote in
message ...


wrote:

wrote:
What components would you put into the best money-no-object music
system in the world?

I nominate:

tube amp: the WAVAC SH-833 - $350,000
turntable: Rockport Sirius III - $70,000

What should be the other components: speakers, preamp, tuner,
DAC,
cd
player, etc.?

The Rockport is FAR from being the best TT out there. I've heard
it,
I've heard the Continuum, and I've heard the Clearaudio Statement,
and
my favorite 'table/arm combo is still the Wilson Benesch Act ONE
with
a
Breuer arm, which can be purchased for a fraction of the price of
those
others.

What difference does it make ?

You missed the point Graham, which was for Marc to brag on Usenet
about
all
the expensive hardware that he has "heard". No doubt Marc heard each
TT
in
a different place, on a different day, with a different audio system
attached to it, and probably even with different source materials.
Yep,
really close, fair evaluations. NOT!

Just curious: How else does one evaluate multiple TTs? (other than the
source materials should be the same, of course)

It seems obvious that when evaluating *anything* one would want to hold
as
many variables constant as possible.

We did comparative evaluations of cartridges some years back, which is a
similar problem. Here's how we did it:

(1) 2 identical turntables, tonearms, bases, etc., both checked out
through
the main system right before the test with test records, protractors,
etc.
(2) Pairs of identical stamper-numbered LPs, all fresh, clean and new at
the
beginning of the test.
(3) Identical preamps. Of course we played them back through the same
main
system.
(4) An operator that maintained the LPs in synch during the test.
(5) All of the above hidden from the listeners.

The listeners compared the alternatives by switching the main system
between
the outputs of the two preamps.

If you don't control the variables, how can you reasonably attribute any
sonic differences to just one of many variables?

All true of course. But in the real world, it's difficult to find, say,
the 4 TTs you want to hear in one store.

Something about if you can't do something even vaguely right, then don't do
it at all.

And by all means, don't brag to the world about what great fun it was, doing
just about everything wrong.

[Eeyore]

Jenn wrote:

"Arny Krueger" wrote:
"Eeyore" wrote
wrote:

The Rockport is FAR from being the best TT out there. I've heard it,
I've heard the Continuum, and I've heard the Clearaudio Statement, and
my favorite 'table/arm combo is still the Wilson Benesch Act ONE with a
Breuer arm, which can be purchased for a fraction of the price of those
others.

What difference does it make ?

You missed the point Graham, which was for Marc to brag on Usenet about all
the expensive hardware that he has "heard". No doubt Marc heard each TT in
a different place, on a different day, with a different audio system
attached to it, and probably even with different source materials. Yep,
really close, fair evaluations. NOT!

Just curious: How else does one evaluate multiple TTs? (other than the
source materials should be the same, of course)

Side by side I'd hope.

Graham

[[email protected]]

Jenn wrote:
In article . com,
wrote:

wrote:
What components would you put into the best money-no-object music
system in the world?

I nominate:

tube amp: the WAVAC SH-833 - $350,000
turntable: Rockport Sirius III - $70,000

What should be the other components: speakers, preamp, tuner, DAC, cd
player, etc.?

The Rockport is FAR from being the best TT out there. I've heard it,
I've heard the Continuum, and I've heard the Clearaudio Statement, and
my favorite 'table/arm combo is still the Wilson Benesch Act ONE with a
Breuer arm, which can be purchased for a fraction of the price of those
others.

Boon

About $3000 in the late '90s, yes?

With the WB arm, it was closer to $5000 or so. They've held their
value extremely well, however, because they're relatively rare. The
Breuer arm, however, is $6000. It's possible, however, to get the
whole rig under $10K even with a decent cartridge.

Boon

[[email protected]]

Eeyore wrote:
wrote:

wrote:
What components would you put into the best money-no-object music
system in the world?

I nominate:

tube amp: the WAVAC SH-833 - $350,000
turntable: Rockport Sirius III - $70,000

What should be the other components: speakers, preamp, tuner, DAC, cd
player, etc.?

The Rockport is FAR from being the best TT out there. I've heard it,
I've heard the Continuum, and I've heard the Clearaudio Statement, and
my favorite 'table/arm combo is still the Wilson Benesch Act ONE with a
Breuer arm, which can be purchased for a fraction of the price of those
others.

What difference does it make ?

Graham

Have you been approved to respond to my posts? I don't see you on the
list.

Boon

[Jenn]

In article ,
Eeyore wrote:

Jenn wrote:

"Arny Krueger" wrote:
"Eeyore" wrote
wrote:

The Rockport is FAR from being the best TT out there. I've heard it,
I've heard the Continuum, and I've heard the Clearaudio Statement, and
my favorite 'table/arm combo is still the Wilson Benesch Act ONE with
a
Breuer arm, which can be purchased for a fraction of the price of
those
others.

What difference does it make ?

You missed the point Graham, which was for Marc to brag on Usenet about
all
the expensive hardware that he has "heard". No doubt Marc heard each TT
in
a different place, on a different day, with a different audio system
attached to it, and probably even with different source materials. Yep,
really close, fair evaluations. NOT!

Just curious: How else does one evaluate multiple TTs? (other than the
source materials should be the same, of course)

Side by side I'd hope.

Graham

No, I mean in the real world.

[[email protected]]

Arny Krueger wrote:
"Eeyore" wrote in
message ...


wrote:

wrote:
What components would you put into the best money-no-object music
system in the world?

I nominate:

tube amp: the WAVAC SH-833 - $350,000
turntable: Rockport Sirius III - $70,000

What should be the other components: speakers, preamp, tuner, DAC, cd
player, etc.?

The Rockport is FAR from being the best TT out there. I've heard it,
I've heard the Continuum, and I've heard the Clearaudio Statement, and
my favorite 'table/arm combo is still the Wilson Benesch Act ONE with a
Breuer arm, which can be purchased for a fraction of the price of those
others.

What difference does it make ?

You missed the point Graham, which was for Marc to brag on Usenet about all
the expensive hardware that he has "heard". No doubt Marc heard each TT in
a different place, on a different day, with a different audio system
attached to it, and probably even with different source materials. Yep,
really close, fair evaluations. NOT!

Actually, these days, as an audio reviewer for three different
publications, I get to evaluate most gear in my own system. And yes,
I'm actually going to buy the combination in question, so I should be
able to get a pretty good handle on how it performs.

Boon

[[email protected]]

Jenn wrote:
In article ,
Eeyore wrote:

Jenn wrote:

"Arny Krueger" wrote:
"Eeyore" wrote
wrote:

The Rockport is FAR from being the best TT out there. I've heard it,
I've heard the Continuum, and I've heard the Clearaudio Statement, and
my favorite 'table/arm combo is still the Wilson Benesch Act ONE with
a
Breuer arm, which can be purchased for a fraction of the price of
those
others.

What difference does it make ?

You missed the point Graham, which was for Marc to brag on Usenet about
all
the expensive hardware that he has "heard". No doubt Marc heard each TT
in
a different place, on a different day, with a different audio system
attached to it, and probably even with different source materials. Yep,
really close, fair evaluations. NOT!

Just curious: How else does one evaluate multiple TTs? (other than the
source materials should be the same, of course)

Side by side I'd hope.

Graham

No, I mean in the real world.

Exactly. Apparently Arny and Graham believe it is possible to get side
by side demonstrations of the Continuum, the Rockport, and the
Clearaudio. In the real world, you listen as much as possible, you do
as much research as possible, and you make the manufacturers jump
through hoops if you're going to spend that kind of money on their
product.

Boon

[Arny Krueger]

wrote in message
oups.com...

Eeyore wrote:
wrote:

wrote:
What components would you put into the best money-no-object music
system in the world?

I nominate:

tube amp: the WAVAC SH-833 - $350,000
turntable: Rockport Sirius III - $70,000

What should be the other components: speakers, preamp, tuner, DAC, cd
player, etc.?

The Rockport is FAR from being the best TT out there. I've heard it,
I've heard the Continuum, and I've heard the Clearaudio Statement, and
my favorite 'table/arm combo is still the Wilson Benesch Act ONE with a
Breuer arm, which can be purchased for a fraction of the price of those
others.

What difference does it make ?

Graham

Have you been approved to respond to my posts? I don't see you on the
list.

The list is at:

www.marcphillips.com

[[email protected]]

Arny Krueger wrote:
wrote in message
oups.com...

Eeyore wrote:
wrote:

wrote:
What components would you put into the best money-no-object music
system in the world?

I nominate:

tube amp: the WAVAC SH-833 - $350,000
turntable: Rockport Sirius III - $70,000

What should be the other components: speakers, preamp, tuner, DAC, cd
player, etc.?

The Rockport is FAR from being the best TT out there. I've heard it,
I've heard the Continuum, and I've heard the Clearaudio Statement, and
my favorite 'table/arm combo is still the Wilson Benesch Act ONE with a
Breuer arm, which can be purchased for a fraction of the price of those
others.

What difference does it make ?

Graham

Have you been approved to respond to my posts? I don't see you on the
list.

The list is at:

www.marcphillips.com

Sorry, but that link doesn't work.

Boon

[Jenn]

In article ,
"Arny Krueger" wrote:

"Jenn" wrote in message

...
In article ,
"Arny Krueger" wrote:

"Jenn" wrote in message
.
com
...
In article ,
"Arny Krueger" wrote:

"Eeyore" wrote in
message ...


wrote:

wrote:
What components would you put into the best money-no-object music
system in the world?

I nominate:

tube amp: the WAVAC SH-833 - $350,000
turntable: Rockport Sirius III - $70,000

What should be the other components: speakers, preamp, tuner,
DAC,
cd
player, etc.?

The Rockport is FAR from being the best TT out there. I've heard
it,
I've heard the Continuum, and I've heard the Clearaudio Statement,
and
my favorite 'table/arm combo is still the Wilson Benesch Act ONE
with
a
Breuer arm, which can be purchased for a fraction of the price of
those
others.

What difference does it make ?

You missed the point Graham, which was for Marc to brag on Usenet
about
all
the expensive hardware that he has "heard". No doubt Marc heard each
TT
in
a different place, on a different day, with a different audio system
attached to it, and probably even with different source materials.
Yep,
really close, fair evaluations. NOT!

Just curious: How else does one evaluate multiple TTs? (other than the
source materials should be the same, of course)

It seems obvious that when evaluating *anything* one would want to hold
as
many variables constant as possible.

We did comparative evaluations of cartridges some years back, which is a
similar problem. Here's how we did it:

(1) 2 identical turntables, tonearms, bases, etc., both checked out
through
the main system right before the test with test records, protractors,
etc.
(2) Pairs of identical stamper-numbered LPs, all fresh, clean and new at
the
beginning of the test.
(3) Identical preamps. Of course we played them back through the same
main
system.
(4) An operator that maintained the LPs in synch during the test.
(5) All of the above hidden from the listeners.

The listeners compared the alternatives by switching the main system
between
the outputs of the two preamps.

If you don't control the variables, how can you reasonably attribute any
sonic differences to just one of many variables?

All true of course. But in the real world, it's difficult to find, say,
the 4 TTs you want to hear in one store.

Something about if you can't do something even vaguely right, then don't do
it at all.

And by all means, don't brag to the world about what great fun it was, doing
just about everything wrong.

You're right of course; if you can't hear two pieces of gear at the
same store you shouldn't consider buying either.

[Arny Krueger]

"Jenn" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Eeyore wrote:

Jenn wrote:

"Arny Krueger" wrote:
"Eeyore" wrote
wrote:

The Rockport is FAR from being the best TT out there. I've heard
it,
I've heard the Continuum, and I've heard the Clearaudio Statement,
and
my favorite 'table/arm combo is still the Wilson Benesch Act ONE
with
a
Breuer arm, which can be purchased for a fraction of the price of
those
others.

What difference does it make ?

You missed the point Graham, which was for Marc to brag on Usenet
about
all
the expensive hardware that he has "heard". No doubt Marc heard each
TT
in
a different place, on a different day, with a different audio system
attached to it, and probably even with different source materials.
Yep,
really close, fair evaluations. NOT!

Just curious: How else does one evaluate multiple TTs? (other than the
source materials should be the same, of course)

Side by side I'd hope.

Graham

No, I mean in the real world.

Well, its a pretty good scam. Price the equipment high enough and make it
hard enough to borrow, that nobody ever does a decent job of comparing it to
anything else.

The people at Linn raised this to accepted commercial practice with their
"Single presentation" method.

Stereophile sucked "single presentation" right up, and made it their prime
evaluation technique.

Well, all this high end stuff is incomparable, anyhow.

[Arny Krueger]

wrote in message
ups.com...

Arny Krueger wrote:
wrote in message
oups.com...

Eeyore wrote:
wrote:

wrote:
What components would you put into the best money-no-object music
system in the world?

I nominate:

tube amp: the WAVAC SH-833 - $350,000
turntable: Rockport Sirius III - $70,000

What should be the other components: speakers, preamp, tuner, DAC,
cd
player, etc.?

The Rockport is FAR from being the best TT out there. I've heard
it,
I've heard the Continuum, and I've heard the Clearaudio Statement,
and
my favorite 'table/arm combo is still the Wilson Benesch Act ONE
with a
Breuer arm, which can be purchased for a fraction of the price of
those
others.

What difference does it make ?

Graham

Have you been approved to respond to my posts? I don't see you on the
list.

The list is at:

www.marcphillips.com

Sorry, but that link doesn't work.

Yes, and its a major boo-boo for a web designer when the site is there but a
link like this doesn't work

talk about not getting the joke!

[Sander deWaal]

said:


Have you been approved to respond to my posts? I don't see you on the
list.

The list is at:

www.marcphillips.com


Sorry, but that link doesn't work.


Funny, that.
I just tried www.arnykrueger.com , that link didn't work either.

Do you suppose Arny was......lying?
No, can't be. Must be a misspelling of some sort, or Google lied.

Yes, that's it! Google lied!

phew!

--
"Due knot trussed yore spell chequer two fined awl miss steaks."

[Harry Lavo]

"Jenn" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"Arny Krueger" wrote:

"Jenn" wrote in message

...
In article ,
"Arny Krueger" wrote:

"Eeyore" wrote in
message ...


wrote:

wrote:
What components would you put into the best money-no-object music
system in the world?

I nominate:

tube amp: the WAVAC SH-833 - $350,000
turntable: Rockport Sirius III - $70,000

What should be the other components: speakers, preamp, tuner,
DAC,
cd
player, etc.?

The Rockport is FAR from being the best TT out there. I've heard
it,
I've heard the Continuum, and I've heard the Clearaudio Statement,
and
my favorite 'table/arm combo is still the Wilson Benesch Act ONE
with
a
Breuer arm, which can be purchased for a fraction of the price of
those
others.

What difference does it make ?

You missed the point Graham, which was for Marc to brag on Usenet
about
all
the expensive hardware that he has "heard". No doubt Marc heard each
TT
in
a different place, on a different day, with a different audio system
attached to it, and probably even with different source materials.
Yep,
really close, fair evaluations. NOT!

Just curious: How else does one evaluate multiple TTs? (other than the
source materials should be the same, of course)

It seems obvious that when evaluating *anything* one would want to hold
as
many variables constant as possible.

We did comparative evaluations of cartridges some years back, which is a
similar problem. Here's how we did it:

(1) 2 identical turntables, tonearms, bases, etc., both checked out
through
the main system right before the test with test records, protractors,
etc.
(2) Pairs of identical stamper-numbered LPs, all fresh, clean and new at
the
beginning of the test.
(3) Identical preamps. Of course we played them back through the same
main
system.
(4) An operator that maintained the LPs in synch during the test.
(5) All of the above hidden from the listeners.

The listeners compared the alternatives by switching the main system
between
the outputs of the two preamps.

If you don't control the variables, how can you reasonably attribute any
sonic differences to just one of many variables?

All true of course. But in the real world, it's difficult to find, say,
the 4 TTs you want to hear in one store.

And nearly impossible to get them on loan.

And nearly unaffordable if we are talking about four $25,000+ turntables
plus $20,000 worth of cartridges to use with them.

[Harry Lavo]

"Jenn" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"Arny Krueger" wrote:

"Jenn" wrote in message

...
In article ,
"Arny Krueger" wrote:

"Jenn" wrote in message
.
com
...
In article ,
"Arny Krueger" wrote:

"Eeyore" wrote
in
message ...


wrote:

wrote:
What components would you put into the best money-no-object
music
system in the world?

I nominate:

tube amp: the WAVAC SH-833 - $350,000
turntable: Rockport Sirius III - $70,000

What should be the other components: speakers, preamp, tuner,
DAC,
cd
player, etc.?

The Rockport is FAR from being the best TT out there. I've
heard
it,
I've heard the Continuum, and I've heard the Clearaudio
Statement,
and
my favorite 'table/arm combo is still the Wilson Benesch Act ONE
with
a
Breuer arm, which can be purchased for a fraction of the price
of
those
others.

What difference does it make ?

You missed the point Graham, which was for Marc to brag on Usenet
about
all
the expensive hardware that he has "heard". No doubt Marc heard
each
TT
in
a different place, on a different day, with a different audio
system
attached to it, and probably even with different source materials.
Yep,
really close, fair evaluations. NOT!

Just curious: How else does one evaluate multiple TTs? (other than
the
source materials should be the same, of course)

It seems obvious that when evaluating *anything* one would want to
hold
as
many variables constant as possible.

We did comparative evaluations of cartridges some years back, which is
a
similar problem. Here's how we did it:

(1) 2 identical turntables, tonearms, bases, etc., both checked out
through
the main system right before the test with test records, protractors,
etc.
(2) Pairs of identical stamper-numbered LPs, all fresh, clean and new
at
the
beginning of the test.
(3) Identical preamps. Of course we played them back through the same
main
system.
(4) An operator that maintained the LPs in synch during the test.
(5) All of the above hidden from the listeners.

The listeners compared the alternatives by switching the main system
between
the outputs of the two preamps.

If you don't control the variables, how can you reasonably attribute
any
sonic differences to just one of many variables?

All true of course. But in the real world, it's difficult to find,
say,
the 4 TTs you want to hear in one store.

Something about if you can't do something even vaguely right, then don't
do
it at all.

And by all means, don't brag to the world about what great fun it was,
doing
just about everything wrong.

You're right of course; if you can't hear two pieces of gear at the
same store you shouldn't consider buying either.

But you could run a bunch of test equipment into each store, and measure the
equipment. Then compare those measurements side-by-side. That would
satisfy Arny. Who needs to listen. After all, theory = experience =
measurements! :-)

[Arny Krueger]

"Harry Lavo" wrote in message
. ..

"Jenn" wrote in message
...

You're right of course; if you can't hear two pieces of gear at the
same store you shouldn't consider buying either.

Harry obfuscates the critical issue of fair comparisons with the following
red herring.

But you could run a bunch of test equipment into each store, and measure
the equipment.

Harry, are you suggesting that there are no measurable differences among
turntables?

Then compare those measurements side-by-side.

What would be lost if a knowlegable person did such a thing?

That would satisfy Arny.

It would have more validity than comparing different turntables in different
stores with different sources and different associated systems and listening
rooms.

Who needs to listen.

Who needs to listen to conspiciously invalid listening tests?

After all, theory = experience = measurements! :-)

So Harry what are you saying - that theory, experience and measurements are
all invalid?

[Arny Krueger]

"Harry Lavo" wrote in message
...

"Jenn" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"Arny Krueger" wrote:

"Jenn" wrote in message

...
In article ,
"Arny Krueger" wrote:

"Eeyore" wrote in
message ...


wrote:

wrote:
What components would you put into the best money-no-object
music
system in the world?

I nominate:

tube amp: the WAVAC SH-833 - $350,000
turntable: Rockport Sirius III - $70,000

What should be the other components: speakers, preamp, tuner,
DAC,
cd
player, etc.?

The Rockport is FAR from being the best TT out there. I've heard
it,
I've heard the Continuum, and I've heard the Clearaudio Statement,
and
my favorite 'table/arm combo is still the Wilson Benesch Act ONE
with
a
Breuer arm, which can be purchased for a fraction of the price of
those
others.

What difference does it make ?

You missed the point Graham, which was for Marc to brag on Usenet
about
all
the expensive hardware that he has "heard". No doubt Marc heard each
TT
in
a different place, on a different day, with a different audio system
attached to it, and probably even with different source materials.
Yep,
really close, fair evaluations. NOT!

Just curious: How else does one evaluate multiple TTs? (other than
the
source materials should be the same, of course)

It seems obvious that when evaluating *anything* one would want to hold
as
many variables constant as possible.

We did comparative evaluations of cartridges some years back, which is a
similar problem. Here's how we did it:

(1) 2 identical turntables, tonearms, bases, etc., both checked out
through
the main system right before the test with test records, protractors,
etc.
(2) Pairs of identical stamper-numbered LPs, all fresh, clean and new at
the
beginning of the test.
(3) Identical preamps. Of course we played them back through the same
main
system.
(4) An operator that maintained the LPs in synch during the test.
(5) All of the above hidden from the listeners.

The listeners compared the alternatives by switching the main system
between
the outputs of the two preamps.

If you don't control the variables, how can you reasonably attribute any
sonic differences to just one of many variables?

All true of course. But in the real world, it's difficult to find, say,
the 4 TTs you want to hear in one store.

And nearly impossible to get them on loan.

That I can see. Turntables are generally fragile and susceptible to abuse.

And nearly unaffordable if we are talking about four $25,000+ turntables
plus $20,000 worth of cartridges to use with them.

Besides, if proper comparisons and/or measurements were done, would the
results sell more high-priced turntables?

[George M. Middius]

Sander deWaal said:

Funny, that.
I just tried www.arnykrueger.com , that link didn't work either.

Do you suppose Arny was......lying?
No, can't be. Must be a misspelling of some sort, or Google lied.

Yes, that's it! Google lied!

phew!

Its like you can, lead a Goggle™ to a database but it, can't make a Yahoo!
learn what a Krooborg is. NOT!

Unless the Yahoo! server and the Goggle™ server lied to the Krooborg both,
at once, by design, LOt"S.

[George M. Middius]

Jenn said to the Krooborg:

And by all means, don't brag to the world about what great fun it was, doing
just about everything wrong.

You're right of course; if you can't hear two pieces of gear at the
same store you shouldn't consider buying either.

Mockery, noted, LOt"S.




--

"Christians have to ... work to make the world as loving, just, and supportive as is possible."
A. Krooger, Aug. 2006

[Eeyore]

wrote:

Eeyore wrote:
wrote:
wrote:
What components would you put into the best money-no-object music
system in the world?

I nominate:

tube amp: the WAVAC SH-833 - $350,000
turntable: Rockport Sirius III - $70,000

What should be the other components: speakers, preamp, tuner, DAC, cd
player, etc.?

The Rockport is FAR from being the best TT out there. I've heard it,
I've heard the Continuum, and I've heard the Clearaudio Statement, and
my favorite 'table/arm combo is still the Wilson Benesch Act ONE with a
Breuer arm, which can be purchased for a fraction of the price of those
others.

What difference does it make ?

Graham

Have you been approved to respond to my posts? I don't see you on the
list.

Is that some variation on "don't ask me tricky questions I have no answer to" ?

Graham

[Eeyore]

Jenn wrote:,

Eeyore wrote:
Jenn wrote:
"Arny Krueger" wrote:
"Eeyore" wrote
wrote:

The Rockport is FAR from being the best TT out there. I've heard it,
I've heard the Continuum, and I've heard the Clearaudio Statement, and
my favorite 'table/arm combo is still the Wilson Benesch Act ONE with
a Breuer arm, which can be purchased for a fraction of the price of
those others.

What difference does it make ?

You missed the point Graham, which was for Marc to brag on Usenet about
all the expensive hardware that he has "heard". No doubt Marc heard each
TT in a different place, on a different day, with a different audio system
attached to it, and probably even with different source materials. Yep,
really close, fair evaluations. NOT!

Just curious: How else does one evaluate multiple TTs? (other than the
source materials should be the same, of course)

Side by side I'd hope.

Graham

No, I mean in the real world.

Side by side ? Anything else requires an 'audible memory' and that can be very
flawed.

Graham