[ScottW]

http://www.i4u.com/article6402.html

In addition to ipod functionality..
this is one of the first generation new TV phones. LGE has one in
test as well.

The DMB function is Qualcomms mediaflo.
http://www.qualcomm.com/mediaflo/index.shtml

They bought spectrum (UHF channel 55 IIRC) and will
begin offering digital broadcast in most major metro centers by year
end.

Verizon has already signed up to offer the service to their
subscribers.

ScottW

[soundhaspriority]

"ScottW" wrote in message
news:Yv_Hg.7582$Mz3.6791@fed1read07...
http://www.i4u.com/article6402.html

In addition to ipod functionality..
this is one of the first generation new TV phones. LGE has one in test
as well.

The DMB function is Qualcomms mediaflo.
http://www.qualcomm.com/mediaflo/index.shtml

They bought spectrum (UHF channel 55 IIRC) and will
begin offering digital broadcast in most major metro centers by year end.

Verizon has already signed up to offer the service to their subscribers.

ScottW
Thanks, Scott, for the heads up. Although I am professionally involved in
media creation, I am personally more of a data/text person.I carry a
subnotebook everywhere I go, and two EDGE data terminals: one card, one
phone. When available I may add a Sprint EVDO rev A card, or simply upgrade
to T-Mobile's coming HSPDA. I actually prefer to view static websites. In
terms of media leverage, however, video is where it's at.

[ScottW]

soundhaspriority wrote:
"ScottW" wrote in message
news:Yv_Hg.7582$Mz3.6791@fed1read07...
http://www.i4u.com/article6402.html

In addition to ipod functionality..
this is one of the first generation new TV phones. LGE has one in test
as well.

The DMB function is Qualcomms mediaflo.
http://www.qualcomm.com/mediaflo/index.shtml

They bought spectrum (UHF channel 55 IIRC) and will
begin offering digital broadcast in most major metro centers by year end.

Verizon has already signed up to offer the service to their subscribers.

ScottW
Thanks, Scott, for the heads up. Although I am professionally involved in
media creation, I am personally more of a data/text person.I carry a
subnotebook everywhere I go, and two EDGE data terminals: one card, one
phone. When available I may add a Sprint EVDO rev A card, or simply upgrade
to T-Mobile's coming HSPDA. I actually prefer to view static websites. In
terms of media leverage, however, video is where it's at.

There will be universal phones available in a year... but I'm not sure
if they've worked out the kinks with the network operators...
for example can you pick the fastest data service available without
incurring some ridiculous roaming fees?
Have to wait and see on that one.

Why can't you use your phone as modem? Do they allow the
data card and phone to share time/data service on one account or is it
considered
two numbers?

ScottW

[soundhaspriority]

"ScottW" wrote in message
ups.com...

soundhaspriority wrote:
"ScottW" wrote in message
news:Yv_Hg.7582$Mz3.6791@fed1read07...
http://www.i4u.com/article6402.html

In addition to ipod functionality..
this is one of the first generation new TV phones. LGE has one in
test
as well.

The DMB function is Qualcomms mediaflo.
http://www.qualcomm.com/mediaflo/index.shtml

They bought spectrum (UHF channel 55 IIRC) and will
begin offering digital broadcast in most major metro centers by year
end.

Verizon has already signed up to offer the service to their
subscribers.

ScottW
Thanks, Scott, for the heads up. Although I am professionally involved in
media creation, I am personally more of a data/text person.I carry a
subnotebook everywhere I go, and two EDGE data terminals: one card, one
phone. When available I may add a Sprint EVDO rev A card, or simply
upgrade
to T-Mobile's coming HSPDA. I actually prefer to view static websites.
In
terms of media leverage, however, video is where it's at.

There will be universal phones available in a year... but I'm not sure
if they've worked out the kinks with the network operators...
for example can you pick the fastest data service available without
incurring some ridiculous roaming fees?
Have to wait and see on that one.

Why can't you use your phone as modem?
I can and I do. But I used to have a Nokia 6820, which is only an EDGE Class
6 device.

Do they allow the
data card and phone to share time/data service on one account or is it
considered
two numbers?

I swap the SIM card. The tradeoffs are as follows:
1. The Sierrra 775 card is a Class 12 EDGE device - 4 slots down/up. It has
a large power budget, with a Blackfin software radio and 2watts/800mHz,
1watt/1900 mHz.
2. The HTC Wizard is a Class 10 EDGE device - 4slots down/1 up.It doesn't
have the power budget. It seems to have additional latency over that
inherent in GPRS/EDGE. It used to be that Google would seldom load. It
appears that sites that were Ackamai hosted would load, but others with
large back ends would not. I haven't checked since I installed the new AKU
2.0 ROM image, but this is why I bought the card.

Currently, T-Mobile charge nothing for domestic roaming. There is good
signal in much of the southwest. There is also bad signal in much of the
southwest. The Northeast is very good, frequently providing downlink at the
theoretical maximum EDGE speed of 236 kbs. People who use Sprint EVDO for
onsite service in suburban Philly report mediocre coverage, with dropback
most of the time to 1xRTT. Now my old standbys, the T-mobile hotspots are
giving me trouble. The installations did not anticipate local competition.
In many seats, one cannot log into their vaunted 802.1x network, sometimes
not even their open network.

So it's very much a crapshoot. The coverage maps are not truthful. The
purpose of another connection card would be to increase the chances of
broadband.

HTC has a new phone, the TYTN,
http://www.europe.htc.com/products/htctytn.html, which actually has
universal triband HSPDA coverage on top of UMTS, EDGE, and GPRS. However,
reports are that the phone simply cannot host a modem connection at full
speed, which is faster than Bluetooth 2.0. I don't have any data on phones
that can act as a broadband modem without a speed penalty, but I know of
several that cannot. New HTC models seem to have buggy ROM code. It took
them six months to straighten out the Wizard. It would seem that because PC
cards are simpler devices with larger power budgets, they should be assumed
more reliable, in the absence of substantial user experience with 3G phones
for laptop data.

[ScottW]

"soundhaspriority" wrote in message
...

"ScottW" wrote in message
ups.com...

soundhaspriority wrote:
"ScottW" wrote in message
news:Yv_Hg.7582$Mz3.6791@fed1read07...
http://www.i4u.com/article6402.html

In addition to ipod functionality..
this is one of the first generation new TV phones. LGE has one
in test
as well.

The DMB function is Qualcomms mediaflo.
http://www.qualcomm.com/mediaflo/index.shtml

They bought spectrum (UHF channel 55 IIRC) and will
begin offering digital broadcast in most major metro centers by
year end.

Verizon has already signed up to offer the service to their
subscribers.

ScottW
Thanks, Scott, for the heads up. Although I am professionally
involved in
media creation, I am personally more of a data/text person.I carry
a
subnotebook everywhere I go, and two EDGE data terminals: one
card, one
phone. When available I may add a Sprint EVDO rev A card, or
simply upgrade
to T-Mobile's coming HSPDA. I actually prefer to view static
websites. In
terms of media leverage, however, video is where it's at.

There will be universal phones available in a year... but I'm not
sure
if they've worked out the kinks with the network operators...
for example can you pick the fastest data service available without
incurring some ridiculous roaming fees?
Have to wait and see on that one.

Why can't you use your phone as modem?
I can and I do. But I used to have a Nokia 6820, which is only an
EDGE Class 6 device.

Do they allow the
data card and phone to share time/data service on one account or is
it
considered
two numbers?

I swap the SIM card. The tradeoffs are as follows:
1. The Sierrra 775 card is a Class 12 EDGE device - 4 slots down/up.
It has a large power budget, with a Blackfin software radio and
2watts/800mHz, 1watt/1900 mHz.
2. The HTC Wizard is a Class 10 EDGE device - 4slots down/1 up.It
doesn't have the power budget. It seems to have additional latency
over that inherent in GPRS/EDGE. It used to be that Google would
seldom load. It appears that sites that were Ackamai hosted would
load, but others with large back ends would not. I haven't checked
since I installed the new AKU 2.0 ROM image, but this is why I
bought the card.

Currently, T-Mobile charge nothing for domestic roaming. There is
good signal in much of the southwest. There is also bad signal in
much of the southwest. The Northeast is very good, frequently
providing downlink at the theoretical maximum EDGE speed of 236 kbs.
People who use Sprint EVDO for onsite service in suburban Philly
report mediocre coverage, with dropback most of the time to 1xRTT.
Now my old standbys, the T-mobile hotspots are giving me trouble.
The installations did not anticipate local competition. In many
seats, one cannot log into their vaunted 802.1x network, sometimes
not even their open network.

WiFi was simply never designed to have lots of access points operating
in an area. No coordinated channel assignment..its just a free for
all
RF wise.


So it's very much a crapshoot. The coverage maps are not truthful.
The purpose of another connection card would be to increase the
chances of broadband.

HTC has a new phone, the TYTN,
http://www.europe.htc.com/products/htctytn.html, which actually has
universal triband HSPDA coverage on top of UMTS, EDGE, and GPRS.
However, reports are that the phone simply cannot host a modem
connection at full speed, which is faster than Bluetooth 2.0. I
don't have any data on phones that can act as a broadband modem
without a speed penalty, but I know of several that cannot. New HTC
models seem to have buggy ROM code. It took them six months to
straighten out the Wizard. It would seem that because PC cards are
simpler devices with larger power budgets, they should be assumed
more reliable, in the absence of substantial user experience with 3G
phones for laptop data.

Thats generally true...but because the PC card market is
substantially
smaller than phones...they use the same basic chipsets as phones.
We use cellular modems in equipment tracking and sometimes
its a challenge to make sure all the ancillary features remain off in
the
modems chipset.

I can't tell what the HTC design is based on...but it isn't quite
universal yet.
This chipset gets real close to universal coverage with minor variance
in
RF bands supported depending on the chips used.

http://www.cdmatech.com/download_lib...00_chipset.pdf

It remains to be seen how many manufacturers will support the "global"
roaming market and what kind of premium they can charge.

ScottW

[soundhaspriority]

"ScottW" wrote in message
newsFjIg.7600$Mz3.5250@fed1read07...

"soundhaspriority" wrote in message
...

"ScottW" wrote in message
ups.com...

soundhaspriority wrote:
"ScottW" wrote in message
news:Yv_Hg.7582$Mz3.6791@fed1read07...
http://www.i4u.com/article6402.html

In addition to ipod functionality..
this is one of the first generation new TV phones. LGE has one in
test
as well.

The DMB function is Qualcomms mediaflo.
http://www.qualcomm.com/mediaflo/index.shtml

They bought spectrum (UHF channel 55 IIRC) and will
begin offering digital broadcast in most major metro centers by year
end.

Verizon has already signed up to offer the service to their
subscribers.

ScottW
Thanks, Scott, for the heads up. Although I am professionally involved
in
media creation, I am personally more of a data/text person.I carry a
subnotebook everywhere I go, and two EDGE data terminals: one card, one
phone. When available I may add a Sprint EVDO rev A card, or simply
upgrade
to T-Mobile's coming HSPDA. I actually prefer to view static websites.
In
terms of media leverage, however, video is where it's at.

There will be universal phones available in a year... but I'm not sure
if they've worked out the kinks with the network operators...
for example can you pick the fastest data service available without
incurring some ridiculous roaming fees?
Have to wait and see on that one.

Why can't you use your phone as modem?
I can and I do. But I used to have a Nokia 6820, which is only an EDGE
Class 6 device.

Do they allow the
data card and phone to share time/data service on one account or is it
considered
two numbers?

I swap the SIM card. The tradeoffs are as follows:
1. The Sierrra 775 card is a Class 12 EDGE device - 4 slots down/up. It
has a large power budget, with a Blackfin software radio and
2watts/800mHz, 1watt/1900 mHz.
2. The HTC Wizard is a Class 10 EDGE device - 4slots down/1 up.It doesn't
have the power budget. It seems to have additional latency over that
inherent in GPRS/EDGE. It used to be that Google would seldom load. It
appears that sites that were Ackamai hosted would load, but others with
large back ends would not. I haven't checked since I installed the new
AKU 2.0 ROM image, but this is why I bought the card.

Currently, T-Mobile charge nothing for domestic roaming. There is good
signal in much of the southwest. There is also bad signal in much of the
southwest. The Northeast is very good, frequently providing downlink at
the theoretical maximum EDGE speed of 236 kbs. People who use Sprint EVDO
for onsite service in suburban Philly report mediocre coverage, with
dropback most of the time to 1xRTT. Now my old standbys, the T-mobile
hotspots are giving me trouble. The installations did not anticipate
local competition. In many seats, one cannot log into their vaunted
802.1x network, sometimes not even their open network.

WiFi was simply never designed to have lots of access points operating
in an area. No coordinated channel assignment..its just a free for all
RF wise.


So it's very much a crapshoot. The coverage maps are not truthful. The
purpose of another connection card would be to increase the chances of
broadband.

HTC has a new phone, the TYTN,
http://www.europe.htc.com/products/htctytn.html, which actually has
universal triband HSPDA coverage on top of UMTS, EDGE, and GPRS. However,
reports are that the phone simply cannot host a modem connection at full
speed, which is faster than Bluetooth 2.0. I don't have any data on
phones that can act as a broadband modem without a speed penalty, but I
know of several that cannot. New HTC models seem to have buggy ROM code.
It took them six months to straighten out the Wizard. It would seem that
because PC cards are simpler devices with larger power budgets, they
should be assumed more reliable, in the absence of substantial user
experience with 3G phones for laptop data.

Thats generally true...but because the PC card market is substantially
smaller than phones...they use the same basic chipsets as phones.

Not as a rule. Perhaps some do, but as a counterexample, the Sierra 775 EDGE
cardbus card uses a Blackfin software radio:
http://www.analog.com/processors/bla...ics/index.html
The card draws a tremendous amount of power and runs HOT. It could never be
powered off a cellphone battery. The HTC Wizard uses the dual core TI OMAP
850:
http://focus.ti.com/general/docs/wtb...contentId=4679

While the Blackfin radio is completely firmware, the OMAP 850 was designed
for EDGE, period. It's built into the DSP core. Firmware, but specialized.
The WM5 core is a typical ARM derivative.

ARM cores do not have DMA. They are strictly PIO. This is the cause of the
data bottleneck. The ARM core simply can't ship the data out the usb port,
or bluetooth, as fast as it comes in. This is another reason to go with a pc
card.

We use cellular modems in equipment tracking and sometimes
its a challenge to make sure all the ancillary features remain off in the
modems chipset.

I can't tell what the HTC design is based on...but it isn't quite
universal yet.

The Tytn uses a Samsung 400 mHz ARM core. I don't know what the phone chip
is.

This chipset gets real close to universal coverage with minor variance in
RF bands supported depending on the chips used.

http://www.cdmatech.com/download_lib...00_chipset.pdf

That is very impressive. What's missing from this picture is the willingness
of carriers to allow subscribers to roam at reasonable rates.

It remains to be seen how many manufacturers will support the "global"
roaming market and what kind of premium they can charge.

ScottW
The question is, how/will Verizon, Sprint, and others use it to our least
advantage ? They all want to lock us in and charge exorbitant rates for
data. That's one reason I went with T-Mobile. A Wizard is easy to unlock,
and with 4-band EDGE/GRPS, closest to global as currently available. And
T-Mobile data is cheap, if slow away from hotspots.

By 2010, Vista will be in handhelds. See
http://www.reghardware.co.uk/2006/06..._sells_xscale/ The days of
ARM cores are numbered. But power consumption will always be a problem for
broadband. Current user experience indicates marginal talk time with UMTS.

[soundhaspriority]

This will play a major role in the shape of US wireless data markets:
http://news.com.com/Satellite+TV+pro...3-6106513.html

T-Mobile and Verizon are squared off against each other. T-Mobile is
desperate for spectrum. If they don't get it, their position here will be
marginal.

Verizon is a Philly company, but I can't root for them, because they act
like a bunch of Nazis. They lobbied heavily against Internet neutrality.
Their data is expensive.

[ScottW]

"soundhaspriority" wrote in message
...

"ScottW" wrote in message
newsFjIg.7600$Mz3.5250@fed1read07...

"soundhaspriority" wrote in message
...

"ScottW" wrote in message
ups.com...

soundhaspriority wrote:
"ScottW" wrote in message
news:Yv_Hg.7582$Mz3.6791@fed1read07...
http://www.i4u.com/article6402.html

In addition to ipod functionality..
this is one of the first generation new TV phones. LGE has
one in test
as well.

The DMB function is Qualcomms mediaflo.
http://www.qualcomm.com/mediaflo/index.shtml

They bought spectrum (UHF channel 55 IIRC) and will
begin offering digital broadcast in most major metro centers
by year end.

Verizon has already signed up to offer the service to their
subscribers.

ScottW
Thanks, Scott, for the heads up. Although I am professionally
involved in
media creation, I am personally more of a data/text person.I
carry a
subnotebook everywhere I go, and two EDGE data terminals: one
card, one
phone. When available I may add a Sprint EVDO rev A card, or
simply upgrade
to T-Mobile's coming HSPDA. I actually prefer to view static
websites. In
terms of media leverage, however, video is where it's at.

There will be universal phones available in a year... but I'm not
sure
if they've worked out the kinks with the network operators...
for example can you pick the fastest data service available
without
incurring some ridiculous roaming fees?
Have to wait and see on that one.

Why can't you use your phone as modem?
I can and I do. But I used to have a Nokia 6820, which is only an
EDGE Class 6 device.

Do they allow the
data card and phone to share time/data service on one account or
is it
considered
two numbers?

I swap the SIM card. The tradeoffs are as follows:
1. The Sierrra 775 card is a Class 12 EDGE device - 4 slots
down/up. It has a large power budget, with a Blackfin software
radio and 2watts/800mHz, 1watt/1900 mHz.
2. The HTC Wizard is a Class 10 EDGE device - 4slots down/1 up.It
doesn't have the power budget. It seems to have additional latency
over that inherent in GPRS/EDGE. It used to be that Google would
seldom load. It appears that sites that were Ackamai hosted would
load, but others with large back ends would not. I haven't checked
since I installed the new AKU 2.0 ROM image, but this is why I
bought the card.

Currently, T-Mobile charge nothing for domestic roaming. There is
good signal in much of the southwest. There is also bad signal in
much of the southwest. The Northeast is very good, frequently
providing downlink at the theoretical maximum EDGE speed of 236
kbs. People who use Sprint EVDO for onsite service in suburban
Philly report mediocre coverage, with dropback most of the time to
1xRTT. Now my old standbys, the T-mobile hotspots are giving me
trouble. The installations did not anticipate local competition.
In many seats, one cannot log into their vaunted 802.1x network,
sometimes not even their open network.

WiFi was simply never designed to have lots of access points
operating
in an area. No coordinated channel assignment..its just a free for
all
RF wise.


So it's very much a crapshoot. The coverage maps are not truthful.
The purpose of another connection card would be to increase the
chances of broadband.

HTC has a new phone, the TYTN,
http://www.europe.htc.com/products/htctytn.html, which actually
has universal triband HSPDA coverage on top of UMTS, EDGE, and
GPRS. However, reports are that the phone simply cannot host a
modem connection at full speed, which is faster than Bluetooth
2.0. I don't have any data on phones that can act as a broadband
modem without a speed penalty, but I know of several that cannot.
New HTC models seem to have buggy ROM code. It took them six
months to straighten out the Wizard. It would seem that because PC
cards are simpler devices with larger power budgets, they should
be assumed more reliable, in the absence of substantial user
experience with 3G phones for laptop data.

Thats generally true...but because the PC card market is
substantially
smaller than phones...they use the same basic chipsets as phones.

Not as a rule. Perhaps some do, but as a counterexample, the Sierra
775 EDGE cardbus card uses a Blackfin software radio:
http://www.analog.com/processors/bla...ics/index.html
The card draws a tremendous amount of power and runs HOT. It could
never be powered off a cellphone battery.

Its a fully software configurable digital radio configurable for X-fm
and the like as well.
No wonder it runs hot... It is still an example that the digital
wireless modem
isn't large enough for dedicated hardware development.


The HTC Wizard uses the dual core TI OMAP 850:
http://focus.ti.com/general/docs/wtb...contentId=4679

While the Blackfin radio is completely firmware, the OMAP 850 was
designed for EDGE, period. It's built into the DSP core. Firmware,
but specialized. The WM5 core is a typical ARM derivative.

ARM cores do not have DMA.

Not true. ARM11 used as an application processor in the
chipset I referenced does.

http://www.arm.com/products/CPUs/fam...M11Family.html


They are strictly PIO. This is the cause of the data bottleneck. The
ARM core simply can't ship the data out the usb port, or bluetooth,
as fast as it comes in. This is another reason to go with a pc card.

We use cellular modems in equipment tracking and sometimes
its a challenge to make sure all the ancillary features remain off
in the
modems chipset.

I can't tell what the HTC design is based on...but it isn't quite
universal yet.

The Tytn uses a Samsung 400 mHz ARM core. I don't know what the
phone chip is.

This chipset gets real close to universal coverage with minor
variance in
RF bands supported depending on the chips used.

http://www.cdmatech.com/download_lib...00_chipset.pdf

That is very impressive. What's missing from this picture is the
willingness of carriers to allow subscribers to roam at reasonable
rates.

It remains to be seen how many manufacturers will support the
"global"
roaming market and what kind of premium they can charge.

ScottW
The question is, how/will Verizon, Sprint, and others use it to our
least advantage ? They all want to lock us in and charge
exorbitant rates for data. That's one reason I went with T-Mobile. A
Wizard is easy to unlock, and with 4-band EDGE/GRPS, closest to
global as currently available. And T-Mobile data is cheap, if slow
away from hotspots.

Verizon had no EVDO competition until recently with Sprint and
as you know..EDGE really isn't competition so it is priced
accordingly.
Until 3 or 4 providers get to comparable technical capability
so they can really compete..data prices will remain high.
Not enough subscribers are making the service provider
decisions based on data..yet.
Starting to look like the phone/ipod convergence may be the
app to change that.


By 2010, Vista will be in handhelds. See
http://www.reghardware.co.uk/2006/06..._sells_xscale/

Maybe but they couldn't make it in the market with Xscale
so why will Vista be different?
Intel as a company is really F'd right now.
The sold Xscale cuz they never really broke into handhelds.
I remember the bid deal all the analysts made when Intel announced
their plans to enter the mobile market...
They ****ed away billions on Xscale and get what in return?
They're also rapidly losing out int the flash commodity business
which is also up for sale.
Intel is in serious decline right now.

The days of ARM cores are numbered.

I don't see that at all. Intel has gone after the mobile market
before and failed...they simply can't catch up and with AMD nipping
away
the desktop market they need to protect that.

But power consumption will always be a problem for broadband.
Current user experience indicates marginal talk time with UMTS.

Always the case with first generation new technology.
CDMA..GSM all went through the power optimization process.
First you get it to work..then you get it to work well.

ScottW

[soundhaspriority]

"ScottW" wrote in message
news:YulIg.7607$Mz3.491@fed1read07...

"soundhaspriority" wrote in message
...

"ScottW" wrote in message
newsFjIg.7600$Mz3.5250@fed1read07...

"soundhaspriority" wrote in message
...

"ScottW" wrote in message
ups.com...

soundhaspriority wrote:
"ScottW" wrote in message
news:Yv_Hg.7582$Mz3.6791@fed1read07...
http://www.i4u.com/article6402.html

In addition to ipod functionality..
this is one of the first generation new TV phones. LGE has one in
test
as well.

The DMB function is Qualcomms mediaflo.
http://www.qualcomm.com/mediaflo/index.shtml

They bought spectrum (UHF channel 55 IIRC) and will
begin offering digital broadcast in most major metro centers by
year end.

Verizon has already signed up to offer the service to their
subscribers.

ScottW
Thanks, Scott, for the heads up. Although I am professionally
involved in
media creation, I am personally more of a data/text person.I carry a
subnotebook everywhere I go, and two EDGE data terminals: one card,
one
phone. When available I may add a Sprint EVDO rev A card, or simply
upgrade
to T-Mobile's coming HSPDA. I actually prefer to view static
websites. In
terms of media leverage, however, video is where it's at.

There will be universal phones available in a year... but I'm not sure
if they've worked out the kinks with the network operators...
for example can you pick the fastest data service available without
incurring some ridiculous roaming fees?
Have to wait and see on that one.

Why can't you use your phone as modem?
I can and I do. But I used to have a Nokia 6820, which is only an EDGE
Class 6 device.

Do they allow the
data card and phone to share time/data service on one account or is it
considered
two numbers?

I swap the SIM card. The tradeoffs are as follows:
1. The Sierrra 775 card is a Class 12 EDGE device - 4 slots down/up. It
has a large power budget, with a Blackfin software radio and
2watts/800mHz, 1watt/1900 mHz.
2. The HTC Wizard is a Class 10 EDGE device - 4slots down/1 up.It
doesn't have the power budget. It seems to have additional latency over
that inherent in GPRS/EDGE. It used to be that Google would seldom
load. It appears that sites that were Ackamai hosted would load, but
others with large back ends would not. I haven't checked since I
installed the new AKU 2.0 ROM image, but this is why I bought the card.

Currently, T-Mobile charge nothing for domestic roaming. There is good
signal in much of the southwest. There is also bad signal in much of
the southwest. The Northeast is very good, frequently providing
downlink at the theoretical maximum EDGE speed of 236 kbs. People who
use Sprint EVDO for onsite service in suburban Philly report mediocre
coverage, with dropback most of the time to 1xRTT. Now my old standbys,
the T-mobile hotspots are giving me trouble. The installations did not
anticipate local competition. In many seats, one cannot log into their
vaunted 802.1x network, sometimes not even their open network.

WiFi was simply never designed to have lots of access points operating
in an area. No coordinated channel assignment..its just a free for all
RF wise.


So it's very much a crapshoot. The coverage maps are not truthful. The
purpose of another connection card would be to increase the chances of
broadband.

HTC has a new phone, the TYTN,
http://www.europe.htc.com/products/htctytn.html, which actually has
universal triband HSPDA coverage on top of UMTS, EDGE, and GPRS.
However, reports are that the phone simply cannot host a modem
connection at full speed, which is faster than Bluetooth 2.0. I don't
have any data on phones that can act as a broadband modem without a
speed penalty, but I know of several that cannot. New HTC models seem
to have buggy ROM code. It took them six months to straighten out the
Wizard. It would seem that because PC cards are simpler devices with
larger power budgets, they should be assumed more reliable, in the
absence of substantial user experience with 3G phones for laptop data.

Thats generally true...but because the PC card market is substantially
smaller than phones...they use the same basic chipsets as phones.

Not as a rule. Perhaps some do, but as a counterexample, the Sierra 775
EDGE cardbus card uses a Blackfin software radio:
http://www.analog.com/processors/bla...ics/index.html
The card draws a tremendous amount of power and runs HOT. It could never
be powered off a cellphone battery.

Its a fully software configurable digital radio configurable for X-fm and
the like as well.
No wonder it runs hot... It is still an example that the digital wireless
modem
isn't large enough for dedicated hardware development.


The HTC Wizard uses the dual core TI OMAP 850:
http://focus.ti.com/general/docs/wtb...contentId=4679

While the Blackfin radio is completely firmware, the OMAP 850 was
designed for EDGE, period. It's built into the DSP core. Firmware, but
specialized. The WM5 core is a typical ARM derivative.

ARM cores do not have DMA.

Not true. ARM11 used as an application processor in the
chipset I referenced does.

http://www.arm.com/products/CPUs/fam...M11Family.html


They are strictly PIO. This is the cause of the data bottleneck. The ARM
core simply can't ship the data out the usb port, or bluetooth, as fast as
it comes in. This is another reason to go with a pc card.

I got my info from a WM5 app programmer. FWIW, he says DMA is not available
to him for his product, which is an SP/DIF CF card. But the picture is more
complicated than I thought.
[snip]
The days of ARM cores are numbered.

I don't see that at all. Intel has gone after the mobile market
before and failed...they simply can't catch up and with AMD nipping away
the desktop market they need to protect that.

Intel is stretched, but they knew what they were doing when they sold Xscale
to Marvell. The ARM core,which is based on the ancient 6502, was intended
for one purpose: production of a very small, cheap processor using obsolete
foundary equipment that otherwise would have to be disposed of. Look at the
geometries: the ARM is being made on 130um, while Intel and AMD are at
65um. The ARM did well, but it is a dead-end concept. While a sophisticated
core, be it from Intel or AMD can eventually be shrunk to fit a PDA, the
simplicity of the ARM has nowhere to go as a competitive feature.. So ARM
will be replaced. Who will do it? A player with the technology in 2010 to
make a 20 nm core. There are only three possibilities: Intel, AMD, or,
(maybe) Via.

[soundhaspriority]

"ScottW" wrote in message
news:YulIg.7607$Mz3.491@fed1read07...

"soundhaspriority" wrote in message
...

"ScottW" wrote in message
newsFjIg.7600$Mz3.5250@fed1read07...

"soundhaspriority" wrote in message
...

"ScottW" wrote in message
ups.com...

soundhaspriority wrote:
"ScottW" wrote in message
news:Yv_Hg.7582$Mz3.6791@fed1read07...
http://www.i4u.com/article6402.html

[snip]

ARM cores do not have DMA.

Not true. ARM11 used as an application processor in the
chipset I referenced does.

http://www.arm.com/products/CPUs/fam...M11Family.html

I remember more. The Xscale integrated I/O has PIO only. That doesn't mean
it can't do DMA for memory mapped devices.

[ScottW]

"soundhaspriority" wrote in message
...

"ScottW" wrote in message
news:YulIg.7607$Mz3.491@fed1read07...

"soundhaspriority" wrote in message
...

"ScottW" wrote in message
newsFjIg.7600$Mz3.5250@fed1read07...

"soundhaspriority" wrote in message
...

"ScottW" wrote in message
ups.com...

soundhaspriority wrote:
"ScottW" wrote in message
news:Yv_Hg.7582$Mz3.6791@fed1read07...
http://www.i4u.com/article6402.html

In addition to ipod functionality..
this is one of the first generation new TV phones. LGE has
one in test
as well.

The DMB function is Qualcomms mediaflo.
http://www.qualcomm.com/mediaflo/index.shtml

They bought spectrum (UHF channel 55 IIRC) and will
begin offering digital broadcast in most major metro centers
by year end.

Verizon has already signed up to offer the service to their
subscribers.

ScottW
Thanks, Scott, for the heads up. Although I am professionally
involved in
media creation, I am personally more of a data/text person.I
carry a
subnotebook everywhere I go, and two EDGE data terminals: one
card, one
phone. When available I may add a Sprint EVDO rev A card, or
simply upgrade
to T-Mobile's coming HSPDA. I actually prefer to view static
websites. In
terms of media leverage, however, video is where it's at.

There will be universal phones available in a year... but I'm
not sure
if they've worked out the kinks with the network operators...
for example can you pick the fastest data service available
without
incurring some ridiculous roaming fees?
Have to wait and see on that one.

Why can't you use your phone as modem?
I can and I do. But I used to have a Nokia 6820, which is only
an EDGE Class 6 device.

Do they allow the
data card and phone to share time/data service on one account
or is it
considered
two numbers?

I swap the SIM card. The tradeoffs are as follows:
1. The Sierrra 775 card is a Class 12 EDGE device - 4 slots
down/up. It has a large power budget, with a Blackfin software
radio and 2watts/800mHz, 1watt/1900 mHz.
2. The HTC Wizard is a Class 10 EDGE device - 4slots down/1
up.It doesn't have the power budget. It seems to have additional
latency over that inherent in GPRS/EDGE. It used to be that
Google would seldom load. It appears that sites that were
Ackamai hosted would load, but others with large back ends would
not. I haven't checked since I installed the new AKU 2.0 ROM
image, but this is why I bought the card.

Currently, T-Mobile charge nothing for domestic roaming. There
is good signal in much of the southwest. There is also bad
signal in much of the southwest. The Northeast is very good,
frequently providing downlink at the theoretical maximum EDGE
speed of 236 kbs. People who use Sprint EVDO for onsite service
in suburban Philly report mediocre coverage, with dropback most
of the time to 1xRTT. Now my old standbys, the T-mobile hotspots
are giving me trouble. The installations did not anticipate
local competition. In many seats, one cannot log into their
vaunted 802.1x network, sometimes not even their open network.

WiFi was simply never designed to have lots of access points
operating
in an area. No coordinated channel assignment..its just a free
for all
RF wise.


So it's very much a crapshoot. The coverage maps are not
truthful. The purpose of another connection card would be to
increase the chances of broadband.

HTC has a new phone, the TYTN,
http://www.europe.htc.com/products/htctytn.html, which actually
has universal triband HSPDA coverage on top of UMTS, EDGE, and
GPRS. However, reports are that the phone simply cannot host a
modem connection at full speed, which is faster than Bluetooth
2.0. I don't have any data on phones that can act as a broadband
modem without a speed penalty, but I know of several that
cannot. New HTC models seem to have buggy ROM code. It took them
six months to straighten out the Wizard. It would seem that
because PC cards are simpler devices with larger power budgets,
they should be assumed more reliable, in the absence of
substantial user experience with 3G phones for laptop data.

Thats generally true...but because the PC card market is
substantially
smaller than phones...they use the same basic chipsets as phones.

Not as a rule. Perhaps some do, but as a counterexample, the
Sierra 775 EDGE cardbus card uses a Blackfin software radio:
http://www.analog.com/processors/bla...ics/index.html
The card draws a tremendous amount of power and runs HOT. It could
never be powered off a cellphone battery.

Its a fully software configurable digital radio configurable for
X-fm and the like as well.
No wonder it runs hot... It is still an example that the digital
wireless modem
isn't large enough for dedicated hardware development.


The HTC Wizard uses the dual core TI OMAP 850:
http://focus.ti.com/general/docs/wtb...contentId=4679

While the Blackfin radio is completely firmware, the OMAP 850 was
designed for EDGE, period. It's built into the DSP core. Firmware,
but specialized. The WM5 core is a typical ARM derivative.

ARM cores do not have DMA.

Not true. ARM11 used as an application processor in the
chipset I referenced does.

http://www.arm.com/products/CPUs/fam...M11Family.html


They are strictly PIO. This is the cause of the data bottleneck.
The ARM core simply can't ship the data out the usb port, or
bluetooth, as fast as it comes in. This is another reason to go
with a pc card.

I got my info from a WM5 app programmer. FWIW, he says DMA is not
available to him for his product, which is an SP/DIF CF card. But
the picture is more complicated than I thought.
[snip]
The days of ARM cores are numbered.

I don't see that at all. Intel has gone after the mobile market
before and failed...they simply can't catch up and with AMD nipping
away the desktop market they need to protect that.

Intel is stretched, but they knew what they were doing when they
sold Xscale to Marvell. The ARM core,which is based on the ancient
6502, was intended for one purpose: production of a very small,
cheap processor using obsolete foundary equipment that otherwise
would have to be disposed of. Look at the geometries: the ARM is
being made on 130um, while Intel and AMD are at 65um.

That is simply ridiculous... the ARM designs are licensed to various
integrators
and then built on whatever process they choose.
Some Qualcomm chips are being fab'd on 90 um and at least sampled on
65
(not sure about production status).
TSMC offers various ARM cores in their cell library and has sampled
65u parts..again I'm not sure if its in production yet.

The drystone specs on the web page provide a performance reference
on a process. Not a mandate for a process.

Intels problems with mobile apps has never been processor
capability, its power management and ARM is way ahead in
that arena. And you can't solve it providing a bigger or more capable
battery. It all turns to heat in the end and you can't have
a PDA that will fry the palm of your hand after a few minutes.

ScottW

[soundhaspriority]

"ScottW" wrote in message
newsssIg.7614$Mz3.7189@fed1read07...

"soundhaspriority" wrote in message
...

"ScottW" wrote in message
news:YulIg.7607$Mz3.491@fed1read07...

"soundhaspriority" wrote in message
...

"ScottW" wrote in message
newsFjIg.7600$Mz3.5250@fed1read07...

"soundhaspriority" wrote in message
...

"ScottW" wrote in message
ups.com...

soundhaspriority wrote:
"ScottW" wrote in message
news:Yv_Hg.7582$Mz3.6791@fed1read07...
http://www.i4u.com/article6402.html

In addition to ipod functionality..
this is one of the first generation new TV phones. LGE has one
in test
as well.

The DMB function is Qualcomms mediaflo.
http://www.qualcomm.com/mediaflo/index.shtml

They bought spectrum (UHF channel 55 IIRC) and will
begin offering digital broadcast in most major metro centers by
year end.

Verizon has already signed up to offer the service to their
subscribers.

ScottW
Thanks, Scott, for the heads up. Although I am professionally
involved in
media creation, I am personally more of a data/text person.I carry
a
subnotebook everywhere I go, and two EDGE data terminals: one card,
one
phone. When available I may add a Sprint EVDO rev A card, or simply
upgrade
to T-Mobile's coming HSPDA. I actually prefer to view static
websites. In
terms of media leverage, however, video is where it's at.

There will be universal phones available in a year... but I'm not
sure
if they've worked out the kinks with the network operators...
for example can you pick the fastest data service available without
incurring some ridiculous roaming fees?
Have to wait and see on that one.

Why can't you use your phone as modem?
I can and I do. But I used to have a Nokia 6820, which is only an
EDGE Class 6 device.

Do they allow the
data card and phone to share time/data service on one account or is
it
considered
two numbers?

I swap the SIM card. The tradeoffs are as follows:
1. The Sierrra 775 card is a Class 12 EDGE device - 4 slots down/up.
It has a large power budget, with a Blackfin software radio and
2watts/800mHz, 1watt/1900 mHz.
2. The HTC Wizard is a Class 10 EDGE device - 4slots down/1 up.It
doesn't have the power budget. It seems to have additional latency
over that inherent in GPRS/EDGE. It used to be that Google would
seldom load. It appears that sites that were Ackamai hosted would
load, but others with large back ends would not. I haven't checked
since I installed the new AKU 2.0 ROM image, but this is why I bought
the card.

Currently, T-Mobile charge nothing for domestic roaming. There is
good signal in much of the southwest. There is also bad signal in
much of the southwest. The Northeast is very good, frequently
providing downlink at the theoretical maximum EDGE speed of 236 kbs.
People who use Sprint EVDO for onsite service in suburban Philly
report mediocre coverage, with dropback most of the time to 1xRTT.
Now my old standbys, the T-mobile hotspots are giving me trouble. The
installations did not anticipate local competition. In many seats,
one cannot log into their vaunted 802.1x network, sometimes not even
their open network.

WiFi was simply never designed to have lots of access points operating
in an area. No coordinated channel assignment..its just a free for
all
RF wise.


So it's very much a crapshoot. The coverage maps are not truthful.
The purpose of another connection card would be to increase the
chances of broadband.

HTC has a new phone, the TYTN,
http://www.europe.htc.com/products/htctytn.html, which actually has
universal triband HSPDA coverage on top of UMTS, EDGE, and GPRS.
However, reports are that the phone simply cannot host a modem
connection at full speed, which is faster than Bluetooth 2.0. I
don't have any data on phones that can act as a broadband modem
without a speed penalty, but I know of several that cannot. New HTC
models seem to have buggy ROM code. It took them six months to
straighten out the Wizard. It would seem that because PC cards are
simpler devices with larger power budgets, they should be assumed
more reliable, in the absence of substantial user experience with 3G
phones for laptop data.

Thats generally true...but because the PC card market is substantially
smaller than phones...they use the same basic chipsets as phones.

Not as a rule. Perhaps some do, but as a counterexample, the Sierra 775
EDGE cardbus card uses a Blackfin software radio:
http://www.analog.com/processors/bla...ics/index.html
The card draws a tremendous amount of power and runs HOT. It could
never be powered off a cellphone battery.

Its a fully software configurable digital radio configurable for X-fm
and the like as well.
No wonder it runs hot... It is still an example that the digital
wireless modem
isn't large enough for dedicated hardware development.


The HTC Wizard uses the dual core TI OMAP 850:
http://focus.ti.com/general/docs/wtb...contentId=4679

While the Blackfin radio is completely firmware, the OMAP 850 was
designed for EDGE, period. It's built into the DSP core. Firmware, but
specialized. The WM5 core is a typical ARM derivative.

ARM cores do not have DMA.

Not true. ARM11 used as an application processor in the
chipset I referenced does.

http://www.arm.com/products/CPUs/fam...M11Family.html


They are strictly PIO. This is the cause of the data bottleneck. The ARM
core simply can't ship the data out the usb port, or bluetooth, as fast
as it comes in. This is another reason to go with a pc card.

I got my info from a WM5 app programmer. FWIW, he says DMA is not
available to him for his product, which is an SP/DIF CF card. But the
picture is more complicated than I thought.
[snip]
The days of ARM cores are numbered.

I don't see that at all. Intel has gone after the mobile market
before and failed...they simply can't catch up and with AMD nipping away
the desktop market they need to protect that.

Intel is stretched, but they knew what they were doing when they sold
Xscale to Marvell. The ARM core,which is based on the ancient 6502, was
intended for one purpose: production of a very small, cheap processor
using obsolete foundary equipment that otherwise would have to be
disposed of. Look at the geometries: the ARM is being made on 130um,
while Intel and AMD are at 65um.

That is simply ridiculous... the ARM designs are licensed to various
integrators
and then built on whatever process they choose.

No contradiction. I simply pointed out the reason ARM was created. Cheap
core from a cheap fab. Now the current momentum is to squeeze everything
possible out of the design, by adding pipelines, caches, and shrinking the
die. But in the end, ARM will die, because when something arrives along the
lines of a Centrino that can draw 1/2 watt at full load, ARM has nowhere to
go.

Some Qualcomm chips are being fab'd on 90 um and at least sampled on 65
(not sure about production status).

The competitive gains of making an ARM core on a 90 um process are not
compelling. They are doing it because they can, and it's the easiest way to
wring the last bit of performance out of it.

TSMC offers various ARM cores in their cell library and has sampled
65u parts..again I'm not sure if its in production yet.

So what? ARM is a simple core. Shave a few milliwatts off, get a linear
performance boost. This does not give it a future. The original purpose of
ARM was a cheap core from an old fab.

The drystone specs on the web page provide a performance reference
on a process. Not a mandate for a process.

Intels problems with mobile apps has never been processor
capability, its power management and ARM is way ahead in
that arena. And you can't solve it providing a bigger or more capable
battery. It all turns to heat in the end and you can't have
a PDA that will fry the palm of your hand after a few minutes.

Even at 664 mHz, my Dell Axim 51V takes about 20X the time to load CNN as
the 1 gHz ulv Centrino in my subnotebook. ARM is a pure RISC core. It is far
less powerful per cycle than a modern pipelined CPU. What are you going to
do, run the thing at 20 gHz to make up the difference? Not possible. The ARM
core will go away. In 2010, Intel will have Windows Vista in your palm.
Would you rather have Windows CE on an ARM? Everything is change. You'll
go with the flow, Scott.

[ScottW]

soundhaspriority wrote:

Even at 664 mHz, my Dell Axim 51V takes about 20X the time to load CNN as
the 1 gHz ulv Centrino in my subnotebook.

and the Axim is Xscale based running Windows Mobile
with probably only 64 Mb ram versus your
notebook and still trying to support VGA.
No wonder it sucks.
You bought one of these?

ScottW

[soundhaspriority]

"ScottW" wrote in message
ups.com...

soundhaspriority wrote:

Even at 664 mHz, my Dell Axim 51V takes about 20X the time to load CNN as
the 1 gHz ulv Centrino in my subnotebook.

and the Axim is Xscale based running Windows Mobile
with probably only 64 Mb ram versus your
notebook and still trying to support VGA.
No wonder it sucks.
You bought one of these?

ScottW

What is your point?

[ScottW]

soundhaspriority wrote:
"ScottW" wrote in message
ups.com...

soundhaspriority wrote:

Even at 664 mHz, my Dell Axim 51V takes about 20X the time to load CNN as
the 1 gHz ulv Centrino in my subnotebook.

and the Axim is Xscale based running Windows Mobile
with probably only 64 Mb ram versus your
notebook and still trying to support VGA.
No wonder it sucks.
You bought one of these?

ScottW

What is your point?

That your whole comment was irrelevant to the longevity of the ARM
both as a base band processor and an application processor.

Will there be Vistas in PDAs someday? Maybe. Will there be an Arm
processor providing baseband support as well? Probably.

Will buffoons still be trying to surf the web with PDAs'? Most
certainly.

ScottW

[soundhaspriority]

"ScottW" wrote in message
ups.com...

soundhaspriority wrote:
"ScottW" wrote in message
ups.com...

soundhaspriority wrote:

Even at 664 mHz, my Dell Axim 51V takes about 20X the time to load CNN
as
the 1 gHz ulv Centrino in my subnotebook.

and the Axim is Xscale based running Windows Mobile
with probably only 64 Mb ram versus your
notebook and still trying to support VGA.
No wonder it sucks.
You bought one of these?

ScottW

What is your point?

That your whole comment was irrelevant to the longevity of the ARM
both as a base band processor and an application processor.

Will there be Vistas in PDAs someday? Maybe. Will there be an Arm
processor providing baseband support as well? Probably.

Will buffoons still be trying to surf the web with PDAs'? Most
certainly.

Gratuitous insult, Scott. You've been spending too much time in elevators.

[ScottW]

soundhaspriority wrote:
"ScottW" wrote in message
ups.com...

soundhaspriority wrote:
"ScottW" wrote in message
ups.com...

soundhaspriority wrote:

Even at 664 mHz, my Dell Axim 51V takes about 20X the time to load CNN
as
the 1 gHz ulv Centrino in my subnotebook.

and the Axim is Xscale based running Windows Mobile
with probably only 64 Mb ram versus your
notebook and still trying to support VGA.
No wonder it sucks.
You bought one of these?

ScottW

What is your point?

That your whole comment was irrelevant to the longevity of the ARM
both as a base band processor and an application processor.

Will there be Vistas in PDAs someday? Maybe. Will there be an Arm
processor providing baseband support as well? Probably.

Will buffoons still be trying to surf the web with PDAs'? Most
certainly.

Gratuitous insult, Scott. You've been spending too much time in elevators.

Childish hypocrisy noted.

ScottW

[soundhaspriority]

"ScottW" wrote in message
ps.com...

soundhaspriority wrote:
"ScottW" wrote in message
ups.com...

soundhaspriority wrote:
"ScottW" wrote in message
ups.com...

soundhaspriority wrote:

Even at 664 mHz, my Dell Axim 51V takes about 20X the time to load
CNN
as
the 1 gHz ulv Centrino in my subnotebook.

and the Axim is Xscale based running Windows Mobile
with probably only 64 Mb ram versus your
notebook and still trying to support VGA.
No wonder it sucks.
You bought one of these?

ScottW

What is your point?

That your whole comment was irrelevant to the longevity of the ARM
both as a base band processor and an application processor.

Will there be Vistas in PDAs someday? Maybe. Will there be an Arm
processor providing baseband support as well? Probably.

Will buffoons still be trying to surf the web with PDAs'? Most
certainly.

Gratuitous insult, Scott. You've been spending too much time in
elevators.

Childish hypocrisy noted.

ScottW

The ARM will be around, as is the 7400 quad-NAND gate. But it will occupy a
seriously diminished role in embedded architecture. Your failure to perceive
that is indicative of a dwarfish mind, even if you are of normal stature.

Top that, buddy! It's OT, while exemplifying sarcasm at it's finest

[ScottW]

"soundhaspriority" wrote in message
...

"ScottW" wrote in message
ps.com...

soundhaspriority wrote:
"ScottW" wrote in message
ups.com...

soundhaspriority wrote:
"ScottW" wrote in message
ups.com...

soundhaspriority wrote:

Even at 664 mHz, my Dell Axim 51V takes about 20X the time
to load CNN
as
the 1 gHz ulv Centrino in my subnotebook.

and the Axim is Xscale based running Windows Mobile
with probably only 64 Mb ram versus your
notebook and still trying to support VGA.
No wonder it sucks.
You bought one of these?

ScottW

What is your point?

That your whole comment was irrelevant to the longevity of the
ARM
both as a base band processor and an application processor.

Will there be Vistas in PDAs someday? Maybe. Will there be an
Arm
processor providing baseband support as well? Probably.

Will buffoons still be trying to surf the web with PDAs'? Most
certainly.

Gratuitous insult, Scott. You've been spending too much time in
elevators.

Childish hypocrisy noted.

ScottW

The ARM will be around, as is the 7400 quad-NAND gate. But it will
occupy a seriously diminished role in embedded architecture. Your
failure to perceive that is indicative of a dwarfish mind, even if
you are of normal stature.

Top that, buddy! It's OT, while exemplifying sarcasm at it's finest


LOL. Are you really proud? Is this a highlight for you?
Yup, that's a hoot. you just claimed the nand gate is losing its role
in
embedded architecture..... that's good Bob.
I wonder what Intel has on the drawing board to replace it?

BTW, ARM is still developing and adding processors to a growing
library of designs. Does this really resemble a 6502 Bob?
http://www.arm.com/products/CPUs/ARM926EJ-S.html
I had a processor applications class in college using a single
board computer called the AIM 6502.
I don't recall having any DSP or floating processors to
utilize back then.
Don't you think referring to their growing portfolio of
processors as "The ARM" is a bit silly?

ScottW

[soundhaspriority]

"ScottW" wrote in message
news:ycNIg.7630$Mz3.80@fed1read07...

"soundhaspriority" wrote in message
...

"ScottW" wrote in message
ps.com...

soundhaspriority wrote:
"ScottW" wrote in message
ups.com...

soundhaspriority wrote:
"ScottW" wrote in message
ups.com...

soundhaspriority wrote:

Even at 664 mHz, my Dell Axim 51V takes about 20X the time to
load CNN
as
the 1 gHz ulv Centrino in my subnotebook.

and the Axim is Xscale based running Windows Mobile
with probably only 64 Mb ram versus your
notebook and still trying to support VGA.
No wonder it sucks.
You bought one of these?

ScottW

What is your point?

That your whole comment was irrelevant to the longevity of the ARM
both as a base band processor and an application processor.

Will there be Vistas in PDAs someday? Maybe. Will there be an Arm
processor providing baseband support as well? Probably.

Will buffoons still be trying to surf the web with PDAs'? Most
certainly.

Gratuitous insult, Scott. You've been spending too much time in
elevators.

Childish hypocrisy noted.

ScottW

The ARM will be around, as is the 7400 quad-NAND gate. But it will occupy
a seriously diminished role in embedded architecture. Your failure to
perceive that is indicative of a dwarfish mind, even if you are of normal
stature.

Top that, buddy! It's OT, while exemplifying sarcasm at it's finest

LOL. Are you really proud? Is this a highlight for you?
Yup, that's a hoot. you just claimed the nand gate is losing its role in
embedded architecture..... that's good Bob.
I wonder what Intel has on the drawing board to replace it?

BTW, ARM is still developing and adding processors to a growing
library of designs. Does this really resemble a 6502 Bob?
http://www.arm.com/products/CPUs/ARM926EJ-S.html
I had a processor applications class in college using a single
board computer called the AIM 6502.
I don't recall having any DSP or floating processors to
utilize back then.
Don't you think referring to their growing portfolio of
processors as "The ARM" is a bit silly?

ScottW
Scott, I'm going to push the sarcasm aside for a moment. In this business,
nothing lasts forever, where the modern meaning of "forever" is about five
years. On the other hand, it takes a long time for things to go away
entirely. But there is a point I want to make, which is not whether ARM will
be around in embedded systems, but about the future of handheld computing.
Intel sold this part of their business, XScale, because they believe that in
four years, they will have a general purpose, complex-instruction CPU that
runs on the power budget of ARM based WM. When that happens, Windows Mobile
as an entity running on ARM will become completely obsolete. And ARM will no
longer have that application.

Of course, there will always be applications for simple cores running in
embedded systems. So ARM will probably be around for a while. But we must
remember at the same time that ARM does not have specific features for DSP
or other high data rate apps. ARM works with other special purpose cores to
accomplish this. Because ARM is not itself a specialized core, future
obsolesence is a possibility.

[ScottW]

"soundhaspriority" wrote in message
...

"ScottW" wrote in message
news:ycNIg.7630$Mz3.80@fed1read07...

"soundhaspriority" wrote in message
...

"ScottW" wrote in message
ps.com...

soundhaspriority wrote:
"ScottW" wrote in message
ups.com...

soundhaspriority wrote:
"ScottW" wrote in message
ups.com...

soundhaspriority wrote:

Even at 664 mHz, my Dell Axim 51V takes about 20X the time
to load CNN
as
the 1 gHz ulv Centrino in my subnotebook.

and the Axim is Xscale based running Windows Mobile
with probably only 64 Mb ram versus your
notebook and still trying to support VGA.
No wonder it sucks.
You bought one of these?

ScottW

What is your point?

That your whole comment was irrelevant to the longevity of
the ARM
both as a base band processor and an application processor.

Will there be Vistas in PDAs someday? Maybe. Will there be
an Arm
processor providing baseband support as well? Probably.

Will buffoons still be trying to surf the web with PDAs'?
Most
certainly.

Gratuitous insult, Scott. You've been spending too much time in
elevators.

Childish hypocrisy noted.

ScottW

The ARM will be around, as is the 7400 quad-NAND gate. But it will
occupy a seriously diminished role in embedded architecture. Your
failure to perceive that is indicative of a dwarfish mind, even if
you are of normal stature.

Top that, buddy! It's OT, while exemplifying sarcasm at it's
finest

LOL. Are you really proud? Is this a highlight for you?
Yup, that's a hoot. you just claimed the nand gate is losing its
role in
embedded architecture..... that's good Bob.
I wonder what Intel has on the drawing board to replace it?

BTW, ARM is still developing and adding processors to a growing
library of designs. Does this really resemble a 6502 Bob?
http://www.arm.com/products/CPUs/ARM926EJ-S.html
I had a processor applications class in college using a single
board computer called the AIM 6502.
I don't recall having any DSP or floating processors to
utilize back then.
Don't you think referring to their growing portfolio of
processors as "The ARM" is a bit silly?

ScottW
Scott, I'm going to push the sarcasm aside for a moment. In this
business, nothing lasts forever, where the modern meaning of
"forever" is about five years.

OK.

On the other hand, it takes a long time for things to go away
entirely. But there is a point I want to make, which is not whether
ARM will be around in embedded systems, but about the future of
handheld computing. Intel sold this part of their business, XScale,

Bob, Did you know the Xscale is an ARM derivative and Intel
has to pay royalties to ARM on it sales?

because they believe that in four years, they will have a general
purpose, complex-instruction CPU that runs on the power budget of
ARM based WM. When that happens, Windows Mobile as an entity running
on ARM will become completely obsolete. And ARM will no longer have
that application.

Windows Mobile has plenty of competition.

The biggest problem intel has is zero IP in todays communications
tech. They have to pay royalties to everyone to play in the space
at all. Qualcomm for CDMA and Nokia, Siemans & TI for GSM etc.
They couldn't compete with that burden so they only tried to play
in the secondary applications processor market. And they did it
with a design they still had to pay royalties on.
That means multiple chips and larger power hungry and costlier
designs. It didn't work and the integrated players were
winning the volume market sweet spots.
So Intel bailed....again.
Look at their TV chip venture...lasted 10 months before they
surrendered there as well.

This whole future venture depends on them pulling off WiMax.
Sprint signed on to take a flyer and try to leapfrog
Verizon which beat them badly with the first EVDO
deployments. They've been struggling to find
a way out of a trailing position so they jumped on
WiMax before its even a standard.


Of course, there will always be applications for simple cores
running in embedded systems. So ARM will probably be around for a
while. But we must remember at the same time that ARM does not have
specific features for DSP or other high data rate apps. ARM works
with other special purpose cores to accomplish this. Because ARM is
not itself a specialized core, future obsolesence is a possibility.

and feature addition is also a possibility. ARM cores are cheap, don't
take
a lot of space, play well together and share memory easily.
Dual ARM chips are here and they work at power and performance
points that meet the market needs.
Intel is a failure in this market...and to claim they will succeed in
5 years
from now in a Market they just exited and were claiming to target
5 years ago, seems a stretch right now.
Might happen and the market is very alluring with its volumes,
but they're track record isn't that great and they're
struggling to match AMD. Remember the Pentium M was really
a face saving lark for them. Time will tell.

ScottW

[soundhaspriority]

"ScottW" wrote in message
news:SoQIg.7643$Mz3.3480@fed1read07...

"soundhaspriority" wrote in message
...

"ScottW" wrote in message
news:ycNIg.7630$Mz3.80@fed1read07...

"soundhaspriority" wrote in message
...

"ScottW" wrote in message
ps.com...

soundhaspriority wrote:
"ScottW" wrote in message
ups.com...

soundhaspriority wrote:
"ScottW" wrote in message
ups.com...

soundhaspriority wrote:

Even at 664 mHz, my Dell Axim 51V takes about 20X the time to
load CNN
as
the 1 gHz ulv Centrino in my subnotebook.

and the Axim is Xscale based running Windows Mobile
with probably only 64 Mb ram versus your
notebook and still trying to support VGA.
No wonder it sucks.
You bought one of these?

ScottW

What is your point?

That your whole comment was irrelevant to the longevity of the
ARM
both as a base band processor and an application processor.

Will there be Vistas in PDAs someday? Maybe. Will there be an
Arm
processor providing baseband support as well? Probably.

Will buffoons still be trying to surf the web with PDAs'? Most
certainly.

Gratuitous insult, Scott. You've been spending too much time in
elevators.

Childish hypocrisy noted.

ScottW

The ARM will be around, as is the 7400 quad-NAND gate. But it will
occupy a seriously diminished role in embedded architecture. Your
failure to perceive that is indicative of a dwarfish mind, even if you
are of normal stature.

Top that, buddy! It's OT, while exemplifying sarcasm at it's finest

LOL. Are you really proud? Is this a highlight for you?
Yup, that's a hoot. you just claimed the nand gate is losing its role
in
embedded architecture..... that's good Bob.
I wonder what Intel has on the drawing board to replace it?

BTW, ARM is still developing and adding processors to a growing
library of designs. Does this really resemble a 6502 Bob?
http://www.arm.com/products/CPUs/ARM926EJ-S.html
I had a processor applications class in college using a single
board computer called the AIM 6502.
I don't recall having any DSP or floating processors to
utilize back then.
Don't you think referring to their growing portfolio of
processors as "The ARM" is a bit silly?

ScottW
Scott, I'm going to push the sarcasm aside for a moment. In this
business, nothing lasts forever, where the modern meaning of "forever" is
about five years.

OK.

On the other hand, it takes a long time for things to go away entirely.
But there is a point I want to make, which is not whether ARM will be
around in embedded systems, but about the future of handheld computing.
Intel sold this part of their business, XScale,

Bob, Did you know the Xscale is an ARM derivative and Intel
has to pay royalties to ARM on it sales?

because they believe that in four years, they will have a general
purpose, complex-instruction CPU that runs on the power budget of ARM
based WM. When that happens, Windows Mobile as an entity running on ARM
will become completely obsolete. And ARM will no longer have that
application.

Windows Mobile has plenty of competition.

The biggest problem intel has is zero IP in todays communications
tech. They have to pay royalties to everyone to play in the space
at all. Qualcomm for CDMA and Nokia, Siemans & TI for GSM etc.
They couldn't compete with that burden so they only tried to play
in the secondary applications processor market. And they did it
with a design they still had to pay royalties on.
That means multiple chips and larger power hungry and costlier
designs. It didn't work and the integrated players were
winning the volume market sweet spots.
So Intel bailed....again.
Look at their TV chip venture...lasted 10 months before they
surrendered there as well.

This whole future venture depends on them pulling off WiMax.
Sprint signed on to take a flyer and try to leapfrog
Verizon which beat them badly with the first EVDO
deployments. They've been struggling to find
a way out of a trailing position so they jumped on
WiMax before its even a standard.


Of course, there will always be applications for simple cores running in
embedded systems. So ARM will probably be around for a while. But we must
remember at the same time that ARM does not have specific features for
DSP or other high data rate apps. ARM works with other special purpose
cores to accomplish this. Because ARM is not itself a specialized core,
future obsolesence is a possibility.

and feature addition is also a possibility. ARM cores are cheap, don't
take
a lot of space, play well together and share memory easily.
Dual ARM chips are here and they work at power and performance
points that meet the market needs.
Intel is a failure in this market...and to claim they will succeed in 5
years
from now in a Market they just exited and were claiming to target
5 years ago, seems a stretch right now.
Might happen and the market is very alluring with its volumes,
but they're track record isn't that great and they're
struggling to match AMD. Remember the Pentium M was really
a face saving lark for them. Time will tell.

ScottW

Your position is reasonable. My compliments.