[Nate Najar]

Ok while I'm deciding which pre to buy to get me more channels, there's
a seller on ebay with both a 4 channel millennia AND a 4 channel GR
starting at 1500 with no bids! Ends in a day or so. So really unless
one of you guys gets in a bidding war with me, i should be able to get
either one at a good price. I love my millennia hv3- is there any
reason i would want the 4 channel GR over 4 more channels of millennia?
At this point I'm pretty much asking which one should i get. At that
price point it makes sense to not pass up.

Nate

[Mike Rivers]

Nate Najar wrote:

I love my millennia hv3- is there any
reason i would want the 4 channel GR over 4 more channels of millennia?

Only to get a different flavor. I have a Great River because I got a
great deal on it. I'd probably have a Millenia too, if I got just as
good a deal on it. There's a somewhat popular opinion that if you do a
lot of overdubs using the same mic and preamp, unless you're really
aware of what's happening, the "color" of the preamp can build up in
your mix and it's hard to separate things. That's why people like to
use different preamps, even with the same mic, when they're tracking.

But it doesn't seem to work out quite that way when you're recording
live, or mostly live, as I suspect that you do. People who record
symphony orchestras like to have a whole rack full of Millenia preamps
because they're so clean.

You should ask some questions about the Great River if you're inclined
to give it a try. I know that Dan made some 4-channel units but not
many. However he did sell the boards for people who wanted a DIY
packaging project. It's possible that this is one that was assembled
from parts rather than at the factory. In that case, the power supply
and possibly the transformers are unknown. I know that John had to futz
around with the location of the power transformer in the case when he
went to more than two channels of Millenia, in order to get the hum
down to an acceptable level in all the channels. A DIYer might not be
cognizant of that, or may not have the gear to measure it.

Just a heads up. If the Great River is the real thing, I'd go for it.
You already have an excellent preamp for your guitar, and you might
like the Great River for recording bass or drums, or just to give your
guitar a slightly different flavor.

[Dr. Dolittle]

Mike Rivers wrote:

There's a somewhat popular opinion that if you do a
lot of overdubs using the same mic and preamp, unless you're really
aware of what's happening, the "color" of the preamp can build up in
your mix and it's hard to separate things.

There was a time, when most of the best music was recorded, that it was
done with the preamps in the board. All the same. Maybe the popular
opinion has it backwards?

[hank alrich]

Dr. Dolittle wrote:

Mike Rivers wrote:

There's a somewhat popular opinion that if you do a
lot of overdubs using the same mic and preamp, unless you're really
aware of what's happening, the "color" of the preamp can build up in
your mix and it's hard to separate things.

There was a time, when most of the best music was recorded, that it was
done with the preamps in the board. All the same. Maybe the popular
opinion has it backwards?

I think "popular" opinion has derived from the ubiquity of mediocre
preamps. It's one thing to track all day and night driving an API,
Trident, old Neve, and so forth, and quite another driving a Mackie,
etc.

--
ha

[Mike Rivers]

Dr. Dolittle wrote:

There was a time, when most of the best music was recorded, that it was
done with the preamps in the board.

That's because there weren't other options, or at least they weren't so
readily available for experimenting. And for many of hose years, the
best music was recorded live, where I said that using all the same
preamp made a certain amount of sense.

[Dr. Dolittle]

Mike Rivers wrote:

That's because there weren't other options, or at least they weren't so
readily available for experimenting.

Of course, but it worked. There is no definite evidence that the current
trend of different "flavors" in preamps is contributing to any better
results.


And for many of hose years, the
best music was recorded live, where I said that using all the same
preamp made a certain amount of sense.

We have to compare our ideas of best. ;-)

I've always loved the studio recordings and productions of the past.
There have been some live recordings that I like, but way in the minority.

[Dr. Dolittle]

hank alrich wrote:


I think "popular" opinion has derived from the ubiquity of mediocre
preamps. It's one thing to track all day and night driving an API,
Trident, old Neve, and so forth, and quite another driving a Mackie,
etc.

Sure, but assuming we are talking about good quality preamps (not Mackie
or the like), is a mix and match really better? It might be that there
is a cohesion of using one type only that could actually be an advantage.

[Mike Rivers]

Dr. Dolittle wrote:

There is no definite evidence that the current
trend of different "flavors" in preamps is contributing to any better
results.

There is no evidence that the current trend in ANYTHING is contributing
to any better results, with the possible exception of less hiss. It's
all about opinions. I was only suggesting that using different mic
preamps during tracking is something that a few people have decided is
effective for their style. But we, on the listening end, never hear
what drove that decision because we weren't there.

And for many of those years, the
best music was recorded live, where I said that using all the same
preamp made a certain amount of sense.

We have to compare our ideas of best. ;-)

I've always loved the studio recordings and productions of the past.
There have been some live recordings that I like, but way in the minority.

By "live" I didn't necessarily mean recordings of public performance. I
meant that all the musicians were in the studio together and were
playing the same song at the same time. If you don't have perfect
isolation, it makes a certain degree of sense that it leakage that's
all the same "flavor" might be easier to handle, but that's just a
thought, not a fact.

There's a certain energy there that contributes to a good performance
(even though it may not be technical perfection) that's nearly
impossible to achieve if you start out with a loop that the drummer
plays to, then the bass player adds his track, then the guitarist, then
the keyboards, and finally you start beating at the vocals. One can
argue that no mix of preamps will ever get that energy that's missing,
and one would be correct.

[Scott Dorsey]

Nate Najar wrote:
Ok while I'm deciding which pre to buy to get me more channels, there's
a seller on ebay with both a 4 channel millennia AND a 4 channel GR
starting at 1500 with no bids! Ends in a day or so. So really unless
one of you guys gets in a bidding war with me, i should be able to get
either one at a good price. I love my millennia hv3- is there any
reason i would want the 4 channel GR over 4 more channels of millennia?

Which GR is it? The original MP-2, or the newer (and totally different
sounding) MP-2NV?

At this point I'm pretty much asking which one should i get. At that
price point it makes sense to not pass up.

If you're ever using ribbon or dynamic mikes, it makes sense to have a
preamp with transformer inputs on hand.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[Scott Dorsey]

Dr. Dolittle wrote:
Mike Rivers wrote:

There's a somewhat popular opinion that if you do a
lot of overdubs using the same mic and preamp, unless you're really
aware of what's happening, the "color" of the preamp can build up in
your mix and it's hard to separate things.

There was a time, when most of the best music was recorded, that it was
done with the preamps in the board. All the same. Maybe the popular
opinion has it backwards?

There was a time, though, that the preamps in a typical studio board sounded
pretty good. That is no longer a good assumption, and it's the reason the
huge aftermarket in mike preamps started to take off the the late eighties.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[Scott Fraser]

I know that Dan made some 4-channel units but not
many.

We (Kronos) were lucky to be able to get one, from Fletcher, some years
back for our touring rig. The balanced outs go to FOH & the unbalanced
outs feed the in-ear system. The quality bump in going from stock PA
desk preamps to the Great River unit was pretty dramatic. We drag it
along to a lot of our recording sessions as well. Great piece of gear.

Scott Fraser

[Dr. Dolittle]

Mike Rivers wrote:

There is no evidence that the current trend in ANYTHING is contributing
to any better results, with the possible exception of less hiss.

Amen.




By "live" I didn't necessarily mean recordings of public performance. I
meant that all the musicians were in the studio together and were
playing the same song at the same time. If you don't have perfect
isolation, it makes a certain degree of sense that it leakage that's
all the same "flavor" might be easier to handle, but that's just a
thought, not a fact.

There's a certain energy there that contributes to a good performance
(even though it may not be technical perfection) that's nearly
impossible to achieve if you start out with a loop that the drummer
plays to, then the bass player adds his track, then the guitarist, then
the keyboards, and finally you start beating at the vocals. One can
argue that no mix of preamps will ever get that energy that's missing,
and one would be correct.


Totally agree.

[Nate Najar]

Scott Dorsey wrote:


Which GR is it? The original MP-2, or the newer (and totally different
sounding) MP-2NV?


It's the MP4 which is a 4 channel version of the original MP2 (at least
that's what the photo looks like). It is definitely not an "NV" model.

Nate

[Mike Rivers]

Scott Dorsey wrote:

Which GR is it? The original MP-2, or the newer (and totally different
sounding) MP-2NV?

Since it's a 4-channel model, it's almost certainly the MP-2 style
guts, probalby called an MP-4. He makes an MP-2NV and an MP-1NV, but
not, as far as I know, and MP-4NV.

[Dr. Dolittle]

Nate Najar wrote:

It's the MP4 which is a 4 channel version of the original MP2 (at least
that's what the photo looks like). It is definitely not an "NV" model.

Just buy it, you can't go wrong. If something changes later, I am sure
you will sell it for little or no loss.

[Laurence Payne]

On Sun, 23 Jul 2006 02:21:04 GMT, "Dr. Dolittle"
wrote:

I've always loved the studio recordings and productions of the past.

What? ALL of them? :-)

[Laurence Payne]

On 23 Jul 2006 06:11:30 -0700, "Mike Rivers"
wrote:

By "live" I didn't necessarily mean recordings of public performance. I
meant that all the musicians were in the studio together and were
playing the same song at the same time.

YES! Experienced musicians can emulate "listening" to the other
players even while laying a track in isolation. Lesser musician's
can't - they overplay and the music needs rescuing with remedial eq
and other tricks.

Regretfully, must I accept that my refusal to accept individual
tracking as the norm (in pop/rock) is as antique as Mike's refusal (in
another thread) to investigate computer-based recording? :-)

[Dr. Dolittle]

Laurence Payne wrote:

YES! Experienced musicians can emulate "listening" to the other
players even while laying a track in isolation. Lesser musician's
can't - they overplay and the music needs rescuing with remedial eq
and other tricks.

Umm, to a point. When actually playing together the experience IS
different. Players (and singers) feed on each other. No matter how well
players can emulate this (and some are better than others), it is not
the same performance. There aren't very many Stevie Wonders out there.

[Jake Saliba]

Nate Najar wrote:
Ok while I'm deciding which pre to buy to get me more channels, there's
a seller on ebay with both a 4 channel millennia AND a 4 channel GR
starting at 1500 with no bids! Ends in a day or so. So really unless
one of you guys gets in a bidding war with me, i should be able to get
either one at a good price. I love my millennia hv3- is there any
reason i would want the 4 channel GR over 4 more channels of millennia?
At this point I'm pretty much asking which one should i get. At that
price point it makes sense to not pass up.

Nate

i was watching these auctions as well but i was at work when the
millennia ended. couldnt believe it.....no one bid on it at all and it
ended with no winner. crazy...

jake